Battle Spot in the OR/AS era - two metas, one generation! (UPDATE: ALL MEGA EVO STATS LEAKED!)

[HydreigonIsOP]

i though about it and there are 2 pokemon i will be using to check mega salamence.

Bronzong in immune to EQ witch helps it a lot. But the main this is its resists megamence's flying and dragon STAB. Mega mence also has a base 130 (in that ball park) speed stat, normally would be bad but for a bronzong its amazing and can irritate mega mence to some extent. It does somewhat fear fire blast but it should (unless highly invested) do just under half. For sableye it may be one of those situational counters. Even for a pokemon like mega salamence with all that power, a burn still hurts. If a salaemce gets a Sub off when sableye switches in then its just set-up bait in most cases. If a sableye can somehow life a plus +1 return a foul play could do big damage/break the sub.

Yes there are going ot be new rankings for ORAS but we are playing the game and are going to let the meta settle before ranking things

Good idea

 

[ethan06]

While we're on the subject of Bronzong, what does everyone think about the idea of Trick Room? In my little search for things that can check Mega Mence I've decided that attempting to outspeed him is a lost cause as he can just boost past you with Dragon Dance most of the time. Trick Room turns those boosts against him and allows Pokémon like Specs Chandelure to OHKO him with their Hidden Power [Ice]s (even through a Sub because Infiltrator). Trick Room messes with a lot of the new megas and allows Pokémon like Camerupt and Rhyperior the opportunity to put big holes in a team. Only problem is it doesn't last very long...

 

[Shyfire]

While we're on the subject of Bronzong, what does everyone think about the idea of Trick Room? In my little search for things that can check Mega Mence I've decided that attempting to outspeed him is a lost cause as he can just boost past you with Dragon Dance most of the time. Trick Room turns those boosts against him and allows Pokémon like Specs Chandelure to OHKO him with their Hidden Power [Ice]s (even through a Sub because Infiltrator). Trick Room messes with a lot of the new megas and allows Pokémon like Camerupt and Rhyperior the opportunity to put big holes in a team. Only problem is it doesn't last very long...

that seems good the only problem is you have to set up the trick room then you have to wait for mence ot kill you and waste some trick room or make a risky switch to chandlure. But i on that though bring a sashed 'lure and you could OHKO with HP ice. this is something that will be figured out in practice most likely

 

[HydreigonIsOP]

Chandelure just needs a modest nature to OHKO Mence without bulk investment. And it gets trick room by itself.

 

[ethan06]

Cresselia is a good Pokémon that can do all of tank Mence's attacks, set Trick Room and bop it with Ice Beam. It's definitely another piece of the puzzle I'd be willing to test.

 

[Mkushrom]

Any thoughts on Mega Sableye in ORAS BS? I'm thinking about running it with Slowbro and specially defensive Clefable as a core, but I think it needs something to deal with M-Gardevoir.

 

[Shyfire]

Any thoughts on Mega Sableye in ORAS BS? I'm thinking about running it with Slowbro and specially defensive Clefable as a core, but I think it needs something to deal with M-Gardevoir.

ummm i think it is going to be not tht great. who knows but i will probably still be running regular sableye for prankster will-o. Can't say too much about since i haven't used it tho

 

[Age of Kings]

While we're on the subject of Bronzong, what does everyone think about the idea of Trick Room? In my little search for things that can check Mega Mence I've decided that attempting to outspeed him is a lost cause as he can just boost past you with Dragon Dance most of the time. Trick Room turns those boosts against him and allows Pokémon like Specs Chandelure to OHKO him with their Hidden Power [Ice]s (even through a Sub because Infiltrator). Trick Room messes with a lot of the new megas and allows Pokémon like Camerupt and Rhyperior the opportunity to put big holes in a team. Only problem is it doesn't last very long...

I feel Trick Room is meh in singles, good in Doubles/Triples but the problem with TR is as you mentioned, it doesn't last very long and TR teams are fairly dependent on it. Well built TR teams get around this with tight synergy but it's still baggage imo.

 

[ethan06]

Okay, so if you want to use Trick Room to beat Salamence then using a Pokémon that can set it for itself is probably the best idea... Probably Cress in that case for most people.

 

[cant say]

Trick Room is an interesting idea considering how most of the top threats are speed freaks. I wouldn't base a whole team around it though considering the limited amounts of turns (obviously much easier in doubles / triples where you don't have to switch) but it would be a good idea to have a couple team mates that indirectly benefit from it. For users (this is all theorymon) I like the look of offensively-based Mega Slowbro, Porygon2, Reuniclus and Cres. All are bulky enough to take a hit from the likes of Mega-Salamence and KO back once Trick Room is up (they all get Ice Beam except Reun who has to us HP Ice, but 0 SpA HP Ice with Life Orb gets the guaranteed OHKO against uninvested M-Mence (needs 252 HP / 252+ Def to survive +1 Double Edge) ). Only thing I don't like about Trick Room is that priority still wrecks so things like M-Kang can Sucker Punch you or Talonflame can still spam Brave Bird etc...

 

[farranpoison]

Hm, so is it true that in ORAS BS we can't use non-Kalos/ORAS home mons?

Also, what do you guys think of MSableye in this new BS meta?

 

[Shyfire]

Okay, so if you want to use Trick Room to beat Salamence then using a Pokémon that can set it for itself is probably the best idea... Probably Cress in that case for most people.

the thing is i think you will have to run Sp.Att investment for an Ice beam (from cress) to KO mega mence.

 

[Age of Kings]

farranpoison: still prefer regular Sableye to Mega Sab, bulky Calm Minders are a dime a dozen. The only thing Mega Sab really has over them is an immunity to Taunt?

What I wanted to post:

I have not beaten E4 yet and have not had a chance to play on the ladder yet, but I have been thinking about various ways to check Megamence. I saw Mega Aggron mentioned somewhere and I agree that it has the correct distribution of stats to at least handle itself vs Mence. I know Cress is thrown around but Aggron can reliably check boosted physical variants. Special variants are 50-50 and depend on largely on when you came onto the field but Aggron is no better than the traditional revenge killer vs special variants. Of course, this is an illustration of how versatile Megamence is, how checks for one set don't necessarily do well against the other and why I think it's Mence's versatility, not outward offensive prowess, that makes it broken as fuck

First of all, this is what Aggron will expect to take. Please note that this is the random onsite spread that I used that is tailored for lv100 play, but I elected to use it because it is somewhat close to the balanced defenses that you will see in the typical Battle Spot spread. The nature I used on Mence's side is Naive and yes I did modify BST in the damage calc to account for Megamence.

+1 252 Atk Salamence Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Filter Mega Aggron: 60-72 (33.8 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 SpA Salamence Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 240 SpD Filter Mega Aggron: 67-81 (37.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 16+ Def Mega Aggron: 47-56 (26.5 - 31.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

The thing to take away is that any Salamence lacking Fire Blast will autolose against Mega Aggron. Before someone tells me "hey, no battler worth their salt will run Fire Blast-less Mence", take this as a lesson that a) there is a very good reason to run Naive Mence over Adamant/Jolly, b) no need to run Outrage because Thrash/Double-Edge 2HKOs Rotom-W but lots of people will miss the fact that DDMence suffers from massive 4mss, and c) you will win very reliably against low ladder heroes who lazily throw together teams of goodstuffs who do not run Naive. Additionally, Salamence cannot set up on Aggron unless it is severely weakened.

In return, Aggron can outright kill Salamence or cripple with Twave and hope to whittle it to death (which is what makes life easier against bulky DD Megamence), which isn't a off prospect because of a combination of paralysis, Fire Blast's accuracy, and possible Iron Head flinches if you so happen to run it. Although yes, Aggron needs Ice Punch and yes, Intimidate weakens you, it does not detract from defensive investment:

-1 0 Atk Mega Aggron Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 84-100 (49.1 - 58.4%) -- 96.5% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Mega Aggron Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 124-148 (72.5 - 86.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Both 2HKOs but even when Intimidated, Megamence can expect to take a lot of damage from Aggron with no attack investment.

The main draw over Cress is that Aggron can win against a boosted Megamence, provided it does not have enough SpA investment to 2HKO with Fire Blast. Remember that Cress does take a lot from boosted STAB (+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 118-139 (51.9 - 61.2%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) so I think that Mega Aggron should warrant consideration. Cress makes a much better check to purely special variants, whereas Aggron is 2HKO'd by Fire Blast and makes a much shakier check to those variants.

Mega Aggron itself is very bulky and isn't a niche addition to a team (cough Sableye), so I hope you guys will consider experimenting with it.

 

[Jozef]

I'm enjoying Hariyama, wide guard support with guts/orb for pseudo spore immunity is fun when everyone is spamming hyper voice mega mence. Shiftry has been a blast, I'm still butt hurt due to the lack of a sucker punch tutor but knock off has been pummeling lati@s. Anyone else having as much fun?

 

[ethan06]

With the Eon Ticket event going around now, the Soul Dew is finally back in the games. There's no reason to think that this item won't be available to Latios and Latias in the Battle Spot; is this a threat we should be prepared for? Is anyone else planning on using one of the Eon twins?

 

[flash]

With the Eon Ticket event going around now, the Soul Dew is finally back in the games. There's no reason to think that this item won't be available to Latios and Latias in the Battle Spot; is this a threat we should be prepared for? Is anyone else planning on using one of the Eon twins?

Soul dew is still banned. http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/support/2/en/manual/manual_battle/basic-rules/

 

[L 123]

Soul dew is still banned. http://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/support/2/en/manual/manual_battle/basic-rules/

nice. just hold the mega stone then.

 

[Age of Kings]

Judging from the usage stats, Draco Meteor is increasingly more common than Fire Blast on MixMence in singles, presumably to hit Zapdos/enemy Mence/other would-be checks. Is anyone feeling safer running lots of Steels rather than niche checks like the above Mega Aggron?

Lopunny at #12 though....I'm very surprised by that. It does OHKO Aegi but with the Flying spam around, I didn't expect it to be used a terrible amount. I suppose the other Megas besides Kanga, Gengar and Blaziken either dropped off due to stiff teamslot competition or people wanting to try the shiny new things. Poor Mawile.

As expected, barely any legendaries are being used besides Zapdos (XY has been out for awhile) and Landorus-T, probably due to people still softresetting them. :P

 

[Jibaku]

To be fair, we've only seen the top 12 and for the most part there the difference between XY and ORAS seem minimal as far as legendaries go. I've watched a few videos and people are still using them. But for the most part, if it's not common now, it's also not common in XY. The main difference is Cresselia because Crescent Island is a whack.

There's also the fact that some legendaries got nerfed coming into ORAS:

Thundurus and Tornadus lost Defiant (mostly relevant for Doubles)
Landorus lost Sheer Force
Suicune lost Sheer Cold (big!) and Extreme Speed
Entei lost Extreme Speed
Heatran lost Eruption

 

[freekhoorn]

To be fair, we've only seen the top 12 and for the most part there the difference between XY and ORAS seem minimal as far as legendaries go. I've watched a few videos and people are still using them. But for the most part, if it's not common now, it's also not common in XY. The main difference is Cresselia because Crescent Island is a whack.

There's also the fact that some legendaries got nerfed coming into ORAS:

Thundurus and Tornadus lost Defiant (mostly relevant for Doubles)
Landorus lost Sheer Force
Suicune lost Sheer Cold (big!) and Extreme Speed
Entei lost Extreme Speed
Heatran lost Eruption

Oh i am so happy that suicune lost sheer cold! It was a pain to deal with, and now i can just counter it with a bulky fairy. And lopunny lost her place in the top twelve. I think the reason for that is that it was used as a shiny new toy. I am still playing oras so i couldnt play battlespot oras yet, but im thinking i will use avalugg to deal with mence.

 

[mhykah]

So a little bird told me that we *might* be getting SmogDex analyses for Battle Spot, a lot of this depending on whether or not we as a community could get write-ups done. I think that this would be a great resource for us since the threats are quite different from the Smogon formats, we're in a weird place that's in-between OU and Ubers and because of the 3v3 environment it's difficult to compare with them. One case in point that comes to mind is the abundance of Salamence checks and counters, namely Zapdos, Cresselia and Porygon2. In fact, I wrote my thoughts on Porygon2 a while back and it was even talked about before the release of ORAS! I thought I'd have a go at writing one and even if we don't get analyses, I hope that you can still have a skim through and get why Porygon2 stands near the top of the usage stats!

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Physically Defensive
Porygon2 @ Eviolite
Ability: Trace / Download
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 164 Def / 92 SpA
Bold Nature
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt / Tri Attack
- Toxic / Thunder Wave
- Recover

Moves
Ice beam is mandatory to knock out Mega Salamence, and has the added benefit of threatening other Dragons such as Mega Altaria, Latios, and Latias. Thunderbolt gives Porygon2 BoltBeam coverage, hitting for neutral damage against almost all opponents. Tri Attack can be considered as it gets a STAB boost as well as a slightly increased chance for a secondary status effect. Toxic wears down the defensive switch-ins to Porygon2, namely Cresselia and Sableye. Thunder Wave is an alternate option, dropping the opponents speed which may be crucial depending on Porygon2's teammates, although the paralyze effect is less consistent than the health crippling Toxic. Recover is important to keep Porygon2 healthy as well as potentially Toxic stall opponents in the late stages of a game.

Set Details
92 Special Attack Evs are specifically invested for scoring a guaranteed OHKO onto 4 HP Mega Salamence, one of the most prominent threats in the format. 252 HP Evs gives you 192 HP, an even number to maximize Recovery healing. The rest of the Evs are distributed as physical bulk alongside a Defence-boosting Bold nature and an Eviolite making Porygon2 one of the premier Dragon-type counters available. Trace lets Porygon2 switch in and out of Shadow Tags, get Lightning Rod boosts from Manectric, and intimidate opposing Salamence and Landorus-T just to name a few uses. Download can also be used as a more offensive option, though Trace is more reliable and fitting as a defensive ability.

Usage Tips
Porygon2 is able to switch into Mega Salamence and take a hit, then take a second hit the next turn and retaliate with Ice Beam. This set is created primarily to hard-counter Mega Salamence, but has many other uses besides that. It's near perfect coverage can potentially scare-off Dragon and Flying-types, and most other things get crippled by Toxic if it can't 2HKO Porygon2. This set isn't without it's own set of counters however. Much of Porygon2's bulk is accounted for by Eviolite and so you ought to watch out for potential incoming Knock Offs from Pokemon such as Landorus-T, Sableye, and Mandibuzz.

Team Options
Pokemon which have trouble with common Dragon-types such as Mega Salamence, Latios and Latias but could otherwise sweep teams may appreciate Porygon2 as a teammate. Since Fighting is Porygon2's only elemental weakness, a defensive team option may be a Fighting-type resist such as Sylveon or Cresselia. A Ghost-type Pokemon such as Gengar or Aegislash can also be used for their Fighting-type immunity, Aegislash especially to be resistant to incoming Toxic which would badly cripple Porygon2's bulk and longetivity.