Battle Spot Special: The Return of Inverse!

cant say

twitch.tv/jakecantsay
is a member of the Site Staffis a Top Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Team Rater Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Gogoat: This wasn't too common, but a few of us ran this thing with success. Unlike any other Grass-type, Gogoat had Sap Sipper, making it not just a Breloom counter, but it even made Breloom set up fodder thanks to Bulk Up! The Grass-type also made it screw over Talonflame pretty hard with Horn Leech, and you could even run Grass Knot to nab a 2HKO on Avalugg! This thing honestly acted more like a Grass-type than a Normal-type at times, but its still noteworthy.
Looks like Theorymon messed up, kinda funny coz he actually says "this thing honestly acted more like a Grass-type than a Normal-type at times" haha. Come on man get it together!

Gogoat is in fact pure-Grass :)
 
Normal types have a lot of move set variety open due to only needing one attacking move. Calm Mind Minimize Sub Blissey with Hyper voice along with Red Card Mon seem to be how some players try to combat Glalie. A strategy that seems very effective along with timer stall if you have the life lead (life as in pokemon>hp%>hp raw in this priority order). Assuming of course, Glalie doesn't land sheer cold before you sub up vs it. I guess you could alternatively have softboiled over minimize.
But similarly, the minimize seismic toss set of Chansey is not walled anymore. Diggersby can run dual dance with quick attack and frustration. PorygonZ can run a multitude of viable sets running various moves in various combos (Sub/Agility/Nasty Plot/Recover/Uproar/Hyper Beam/TriAttack/Psyshock/Trick/etc) choosing from various hold items (Petaya/Salac/LO/Scarf/Specs/etc).

Kangaskhan-Mega plays the same way it does in bss and though has a bit of a buff, is not as crazy as it'd seem on paper compared to these other Mons that now have no restrictions for crazy sets. K-M still best all-out attacking Normal though!

ALSO, bANDED dRAGONITE IS arguably better. Dragon offensively is buffed as it only is resisted by itself and can hit fairies and steel se. That makes Banded Dnite a monster than can lock into Outrage and/or ESpeed especially coupled with Multiscale which would let it KO at least something if not heavily maul a team before going down for good. X_X

WORRY SEED does not work vs Sap Sipper
Obvious much? yeah... except for when you realize the 1 time you actually want to utilize the move, you forget that its grass type. I already knew about twave vs lightningrod too :'(
 
Last edited:
Guys, can ppl talk about their opinion on Energy Ball vs Grass Knot on the Mons that can learn em, particularly the non-Grass types?
For example, Alakazam can learn both. The thing with Grass Knot is that unlike Energy Ball, it can ohko DNite at full hp (in a scenario where parental bond isn't traced) and Energy Ball only does 10 more BP than Grass Knot vs Sceptiles and Serp (base 80 vs base 90).

Are there other reasons for the use of this move on non-Grass types because if we look at it like this, I think being able to get rid of DNite asap at the cost of slightly less damage vs Serp and Sceptiles is much better than running energy ball. And what are your thoughts of Energy Ball vs Grass Knot on Grass types that lack the firepower of Sceptile-Mega?

As I typed this, Gengar popped out at me as a Mon grass knot is ineffective for (Though M-Sceptile can still OHKO using Grass Knot). But yeah, pls still address the content of this post :)
ty

Aside: Demantoid grats on being number 1 in the USA atm. I've played slightly fewer games but i'm still under 1600 :'(
What's your secret?
 
Last edited:
Guys, can ppl talk about their opinion on Energy Ball vs Grass Knot on the Mons that can learn em, particularly the non-Grass types?
For example, Alakazam can learn both. The thing with Grass Knot is that unlike Energy Ball, it can ohko DNite at full hp (in a scenario where parental bond isn't traced) and Energy Ball only does 10 more BP than Grass Knot vs Sceptiles and Serp (base 80 vs base 90).

Are there other reasons for the use of this move on non-Grass types because if we look at it like this, I think being able to get rid of DNite asap at the cost of slightly less damage vs Serp and Sceptiles is much better than running energy ball. And what are your thoughts of Energy Ball vs Grass Knot on Grass types that lack the firepower of Sceptile-Mega?

As I typed this, Gengar popped out at me as a Mon grass knot is ineffective for (Though M-Sceptile can still OHKO using Grass Knot). But yeah, pls still address the content of this post :)
ty
I know we discussed this in the Battle Spot room, but I do say that we all know that Grass Knot works best depending on whether or not the Pokemon is heavy or light. In a sense where you're battling against Mega Gengar with Alakazam or even its Mega, Mega Gengar only weighs 40.5kg and that should be taken into consideration that the base power of Grass Knot would be 60. Compared to Energy Ball, you're dealing less damage to it, as Energy Ball has a Base Power of 90. So putting that in mind, Energy Ball will be dealing more damage with a potential of an OHKO.

Lets take a look at Sceptile and Serperior's perspective against Mega Gengar. Serperior can't OHKO Mega Gengar because of its offensive stats being at a base 75 Special Attack. Even though Mega Gengar is 2x weak to Grass now that Inverse flips weaknesses with resistances, the weight should be mentioned. Mega Sceptile can OHKO because of its base 145 Special Attack coupled with the fact it gets STAB. So it will be hitting pretty hard compared to that of Serperior.

As for Dragonite, its Dragon / Flying typing gives it a now 4x weakness to Grass-type moves. Lets just say it is now the new Ice weakness if you know what I mean. Now, lets look at Dragonite's weight as well. Dragonite weighs 210 kg (that is quite the heavy Pokemon) so Grass Knot will be having 120 BP, which will be hitting harder than Energy Ball with Mega Sceptile and this is only Timid nature btw. Serperior, Grass Knot gives it a chance to OHKO Dragonite with Timid nature with 252 in Special Attack. I am also going to say that Mega Alakazam can OHKO Dragonite with Grass Knot, as Energy Ball gives it a chance to OHKO and this is Modest nature.

I would say that Grass Knot would be a little tricky to use when playing Battle Spot Singles Inverse compared to Energy Ball because Grass Knot's Base Power is determined by the weight of a Pokemon. Energy Ball is more consistent than Grass Knot because you don't have to always rely on the weight of opponent's Pokemon to deal more damage.
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Tiering Contributor
I know we discussed this in the Battle Spot room, but I do say that we all know that Grass Knot works best depending on whether or not the Pokemon is heavy or light. In a sense where you're battling against Mega Gengar with Alakazam or even its Mega, Mega Gengar only weighs 40.5kg and that should be taken into consideration that the base power of Grass Knot would be 60. Compared to Energy Ball, you're dealing less damage to it, as Energy Ball has a Base Power of 90. So putting that in mind, Energy Ball will be dealing more damage with a potential of an OHKO.

Lets take a look at Sceptile and Serperior's perspective against Mega Gengar. Serperior can't OHKO Mega Gengar because of its offensive stats being at a base 75 Special Attack. Even though Mega Gengar is 2x weak to Grass now that Inverse flips weaknesses with resistances, the weight should be mentioned. Mega Sceptile can OHKO because of its base 145 Special Attack coupled with the fact it gets STAB. So it will be hitting pretty hard compared to that of Serperior.

As for Dragonite, its Dragon / Flying typing gives it a now 4x weakness to Grass-type moves. Lets just say it is now the new Ice weakness if you know what I mean. Now, lets look at Dragonite's weight as well. Dragonite weighs 210 kg (that is quite the heavy Pokemon) so Grass Knot will be having 120 BP, which will be hitting harder than Energy Ball with Mega Sceptile and this is only Timid nature btw. Serperior, Grass Knot gives it a chance to OHKO Dragonite with Timid nature with 252 in Special Attack. I am also going to say that Mega Alakazam can OHKO Dragonite with Grass Knot, as Energy Ball gives it a chance to OHKO and this is Modest nature.

I would say that Grass Knot would be a little tricky to use when playing Battle Spot Singles Inverse compared to Energy Ball because Grass Knot's Base Power is determined by the weight of a Pokemon. Energy Ball is more consistent than Grass Knot because you don't have to always rely on the weight of opponent's Pokemon to deal more damage.
Why would Serperior be using Grass Knot or Energy Ball?

I Broke 1700 with a Mega Alakazam using Energy Ball which has been very helpful for OHKOing Mega Gengars, weird non-mega not Focus Sash Gengars and Blazikens. I have not been in any situations yet where Grass Knot would have been more helpful.
 
Last edited:
Why would Serperior be using Grass Knot or Energy Ball?
Nobody uses Grass Knot or Energy Ball when you have Leaf Storm and the ability Contrary, which becomes the opposite of stat lowering moves along with stat boosting moves. It was more of an example that I was giving in terms of using using Grass Knot and Energy Ball providing differences between the two as Grass Knot varies in terms of weight, while Energy Ball is more consistent. Also keeping that in mind, I was comparing Serperior's lack of offensive stats that are going off at a base 75 Special Attack to that of Mega Sceptile that has a base 145 Special Attack, which makes a lot of difference between the two.

Grass Knot and Energy Ball aren't recommended for Serperior when you have a hard-hitting Grass-type attack giving STAB.
 
so Demantoid am I the only one who is being destroyed by Dragonites :'(
Glalie, Mamoswine, and Dragonite are really tearing me up. How have you been doing vs Glalies Demantoid ? I've been doing 50/50 vs em so it's cool but then Dragonite teams and teams with Cloyster and Mamoswine really tearing me up
Also, Demantoid how do you deal with Dragonites, Cloysters, and Mamoswine?
 
Last edited:

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Tiering Contributor
so Demantoid am I the only one who is being destroyed by Dragonites :'(
Glalie, Mamoswine, and Dragonite are really tearing me up. How have you been doing vs Glalies Demantoid ? I've been doing 50/50 vs em so it's cool but then Dragonite teams and teams with Cloyster and Mamoswine really tearing me up
Also, Demantoid how do you deal with Dragonites, Cloysters, and Mamoswine?
I've never seen a Cloyster or Mamoswine. I also run mega Sceptile which is how I deal with Dragonite or breaking its Scale with Garchomp which would do decently against Mamoswine. I also have decently strong priority that could pick off sash Cloysters. I usually win against Glalie unless they get very lucky with Moody.​
 
I'm running Cloyster, standard shell smash set with a focus sash and it absolutely destroys everything, usually netting me 2 KO's per match.

2 other mons I've been having decent success with are Heliolisk and Pyroar. Both learn the powerful Hyper Voice and useful secondary STABs as well as being decently fast.

The team of 6 I'm currently running are M-Khan, Heliolisk, Pyroar, Serperior, Cloyster and M-Sharpedo.

M-Sharpedo has been a bit of a wash as I'm not finding people running a lot of things it's weak to in Inverse Land so I'm on the lookout for a 2ndary Mega to run with my 6. I'm considering Gallade but has anyone got any suggestions?
 
hmm Demantoid what time do you usually ladder and what time zone? I literally ladder at 3am est-5am est
Also, M-Sceptile is truly amazing or M-Alakazam Skore
M-Alakazam looks like it'd be right at home on your team

4:04am EDIT: http://prntscr.com/7ck077
just gotta keep playing and the points will come it seems!
 
Last edited:

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Tiering Contributor
hmm Demantoid what time do you usually ladder and what time zone? I literally ladder at 3am est-5am est
Also, M-Sceptile is truly amazing or M-Alakazam Skore
M-Alakazam looks like it'd be right at home on your team

4:04am EDIT: http://prntscr.com/7ck077
just gotta keep playing and the points will come it seems!
I tend to ladder on inverse somewhere between 11:00 AM and 2 PM eastern and occasionally at 8 PM so I probably battle less Japanese players than you which is good and bad because they tend to be better but also higher ranked. Also did you play 200+ games in the last few days since you said you had played less than me a few days ago.
Has anyone seen any Avalugg in a while? I feel like it disappeared.

Edit: Oops, thought you were Shawn who has played like 220 games since you were over 1700 and didn't know you were Japanese.
 
Last edited:
Oh I played like 25~ games (less than) the first post but was at 46 games played at the time of my last post. lol 200+ games in 2 days is overkill especially on this ladder that keeps on sending us back to the main menu xD

As for Avalugg, ya I've seen it alright. I was matched up vs someone at 1814 who was 12 globally ranked at the time and this player had Avalugg. I faced some1 else who was like 1791 iirc they had Avalugg Chansey action going for them with a mirror coat that took game away from me on the last turn :'( (so many 30 min battles courtesy of stalling Glalie)
 
http://prntscr.com/7e14k6 Demantoid I gotchu xP
I saw a malamar used in 1760s today. I also faced a tangrowth chansey stallcore Perish Trap MGengar team O_O
Muk was also on that malamar team. I didn't think I'd run into higher ranked opponents considering how low frequency I tend to get battles on inverse but hey I ain't complaining! Ohh, will-o-wisp Blaziken-Mega how could I forget!
<3 Inverse
 
i see Demantoid has rid me of all pride lol
gj on the laddering progress in less games too!
I wanted to mention right now how sd Chomp with dual chomp just tore apart an opposing glalie i was facing who had decent boosts enough to comfortably win had this chomp not coincidentally found itself on my team. Thanks to my fren for taking my choice band away so I had no choice band for this shoulda been banded chomp!
it was a standard jolly spread holding lum and had sd dual chop outrage and eq. The mons that wall Chomp are mostly mons where a coverage move would be insignificant so dual chop is the best 3rd attacking option imo based on its sash/sub breaking qualities over dragon claw. Dragon Rush is also too specific imo as minimize users have been too few to merit use compared to the greatness that is Dual Chop!
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Tiering Contributor
I have only played about 5 more games and won all of them. Only one was against a person above 1600 and two were against 1500 rated people who didn't seem to know it was inverse. Now I am probably only going to play to keep #1 in the US (or if I really need points for my overall score).

How do you deal with Garchomp? After I took Latios off my team I have a much harder time with it. Although this may just be the 3 pokémon I tend to bring.
 
Wait so, you are saying you got 4 opp below 1600 and that 2 of them didn't really know about Inverse? Meanwhile I've dropped due to losing to such opp x_x
I have a Raikou on one of my teams for Garchomp and a Jolteon sitting in my box who I'd say is definitely better due to Volt Absorb. I also have my Talonflame who is evd to be faster than chomp and can will-o chomp and then finish it with flare blitz when in range. Thunderpunch Conkeldurr and just overall Conkedlurr is really really good! MSceptile can finish off Chomps with LS or Energy Ball as long they aren't scarfed into EQ and theyve taken enough prior damage.
Iron Defense Toxic Avalugg is also a great option! Defensive Arcanine is also really good!
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Tiering Contributor
You can try it out and try making it work! Inverse is still a mass of uncharted territory!

Demantoid Have you used kangaskhan-mega and/or serperior at all this season? was curious as I just got my hands on em after squaring off vs the number 1 ranked player this morning!
as for my recent peak: http://prntscr.com/7fwwry xD
I have not used Serperior or Kangaskhan. I felt like people would be really well prepared for Kangaskhan and I did not feel like breeding for a Serperior with egg moves. I have used basically the same team the whole season after getting rid of one member early on. My team building process was to look at common things from the last inverse season and read the guide here and see what was in my box that did well. The only Pokémon I bred for was Sceptile because I had been meaning to do that before.
 
45mins-hour from now (the time I'm posting this), if you ladder on the Special ladder you'll get matched up vs many 1800+ rating players including multiple top 10-30 ranked opponents!
You should try it out Demantoid ;)
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top