Battle Spot Teambuilding Discussion & Help Thread (read post #453, page 19)

Well maybe the luck thing explains a bit. I was going great to begin with.

I'd be happy to start over although it is funny that you queried the Lum on Mamoswine. It's been really good.

But as for starting over I guess I will pick another team. No point doing the work on this one I guess?
Mmm...not unless you can make yourself Asian lol. I guess I can see Lum on Mamo, though I've found Scarf to be better(never ran Lum, but I can't even recall it ever getting burned. Still, I hate getting locked into a move, so there is at.)

On a related note, do people run Ice Shard on Scarfed Mamos? I do it and it seems counterintuitive, and I rarely ever use it. Think I'll swap it for Knock Off.
 

cant say

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Frustration is just the same as Return, it's pretty much just used so that Ditto can't come in and beat you, as it's likely to have max Happiness and therefore a weaker Frustration.

But yeah that team definitely doesn't like Cresselia. I think the play is to Toxic it with Suicune and Rest off the Toxic you'll probably receive in return. Gengar can probably beat it with Sash + Shadow Ball. I like Destiny Bond over WoW though.

I honestly don't know why the Thundurus is slow Nasty Plot. Is it purely used for smashing slow / defensive teams maybe? I guess t wave would really help it but yeah, maybe try a more standard spread on it (ie: timid max SpA/Spe)
 
I like Ferro of those two, since you deal ok with its weaknesses while half your team is ice weak with no resistances if you go Hippo.

Garchomp likes to have a rock type coverage move over either SD or SR. Lum Berry is good though, and I don't think anyone runs different EVs on anything but TankChomp which isn't really the best idea.

What do the defensive EVs onGengar accomplish? I know that the speed is still enough for Chomp since I was trying to compare Gengar and Mismagius earlier, and realized Gengar is effectively bulkier on the physical side cause it can put more EVs there while still outspeeding Chomp.

I kinda think you have a problem with Mamoswine, but much less so if you use Ferro.
Other than that you only have ice coverage w/ Thundy, so maybe Ice Punch on Kang? You don't seem very safe against Porygon2, though again Ferro helps you a little, and Chomp running SD will let you boost up on it since Comp is immune to T-Wave and use a +2 Outrage on it. It probably won't OHKO, but it had the same chance to OHKO a 244/252 P2 as P2's Ice Beam has to OHKO a 4/0 Chomp.
The Gengar's EVs I ripped from a Japanese BSS team. At first I thought it was to help with M.Slowbro but with the 252 HP it doesn't really seem to do anything in particular.

Also I've thought about what you said and was wondering if Mamoswine replacing Ferrothorn and FS Blaziken replacing Garchomp would be a better idea? If I did this though I'd have a new problem in the form of water weakness but it does increase my coverage against dragons and normals.
 
Kangaskhan @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 132 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fake Out
- Return
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch

Talonflame @ Life Orb
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 200 HP / 252 Atk / 56 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Brave Bird
- Roost
- Flare Blitz
- Will-O-Wisp

Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Outrage
- Swords Dance

Thundurus @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 140 HP / 16 Def / 100 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave
- Nasty Plot

Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Ability: Shadow Tag
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 4 SpA / 4 SpD / 196 Spe
Timid Nature
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex
- Sludge Bomb
- Destiny Bond


[/quote]

Wanted your team to refer to.

Not sure what FS Blaziken is. And how does it increase coverage vs Dragons? HP Ice? But that's weaker than Outrage, which is also SE vs Dragons...

Maybe add Mamo in the last slot and hold off on the Blaziken? Your team looks very boring, which typically means good, so you really shouldn't have to change much. Checking EVs is always a good idea.

What set were you planning on with Mamoswine? Maybe AV, and I like Scarf as well.
 
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Wanted your team to refer to.

Not sure what FS Blaziken is. And how does it increase coverage vs Dragons? HP Ice? But that's weaker than Outrage, which is also SE vs Dragons...

Maybe add Mamo in the last slot and hold off on the Blaziken? Your team looks very boring, which typically means good, so you really shouldn't have to change much. Checking EVs is always a good idea.

What set were you planning on with Mamoswine? Maybe AV, and I like Scarf as well.
Focus Sash Blaziken as a counter to Porygon2. Mamoswine was the one to increase coverage against dragons. I was thinking either Assault Vest or Rocky Helmet on the Mamoswine.
 
Focus Sash Blaziken as a counter to Porygon2. Mamoswine was the one to increase coverage against dragons. I was thinking either Assault Vest or Rocky Helmet on the Mamoswine.
Lol, not always great with abbreviations. I didn't know standard Porygon2 can OHKO Blaziken, though I guess it makes sense. I feel like you get past P2 ok, but another option against it is Swagger on Thundy. P2 is pretty much never mixed, so you're not helping it at all, and after you T-Wave it has very little chance to move and it's pretty much smooth sailing from there. AV Mamo can live a decent number of hits from P2, so it has a couple chances for Fissure to hit. So I don't think you really need Blaziken, as you have plenty of other weapons vs P2, which isn't even terribly common.
 
Lol, not always great with abbreviations. I didn't know standard Porygon2 can OHKO Blaziken, though I guess it makes sense. I feel like you get past P2 ok, but another option against it is Swagger on Thundy. P2 is pretty much never mixed, so you're not helping it at all, and after you T-Wave it has very little chance to move and it's pretty much smooth sailing from there. AV Mamo can live a decent number of hits from P2, so it has a couple chances for Fissure to hit. So I don't think you really need Blaziken, as you have plenty of other weapons vs P2, which isn't even terribly common.
Whoops. I misspoke and meant coverage instead of counter. Blaziken was more of something I thought of as it seems that without it my team has nothing useful against dark, ice and normal types so I put it there. To be honest though I'm not crazy about Blaziken as it is just a free switch in for teams with Talonflame.
 
Whoops. I misspoke and meant coverage instead of counter. Blaziken was more of something I thought of as it seems that without it my team has nothing useful against dark, ice and normal types so I put it there. To be honest though I'm not crazy about Blaziken as it is just a free switch in for teams with Talonflame.
You're testing on PS right? Just theorymoning isn't as good. In terms of dark, ice, and normals, Talon handles Weavile(tho it's your only Poke to do so really well,) Kang has trouble with Gengar and Chomp, fears a burn from Talon, and is liable to lose to your own Kang if you have boosts or something.

Mamo does not like Kang at a all, and needs a Scarf to get through stuff like Chomp, and the it's locked in.
 
You're testing on PS right? Just theorymoning isn't as good. In terms of dark, ice, and normals, Talon handles Weavile(tho it's your only Poke to do so really well,) Kang has trouble with Gengar and Chomp, fears a burn from Talon, and is liable to lose to your own Kang if you have boosts or something.

Mamo does not like Kang at a all, and needs a Scarf to get through stuff like Chomp, and the it's locked in.
Mamo doesn't need a Scarf against Garchomp.
 
You're testing on PS right? Just theorymoning isn't as good. In terms of dark, ice, and normals, Talon handles Weavile(tho it's your only Poke to do so really well,) Kang has trouble with Gengar and Chomp, fears a burn from Talon, and is liable to lose to your own Kang if you have boosts or something.

Mamo does not like Kang at a all, and needs a Scarf to get through stuff like Chomp, and the it's locked in.

Well the testing went poorly (max rating 1200) compared to my previous team (1350). =/ Looks like I should start from scratch.
 
Well the testing went poorly (max rating 1200) compared to my previous team (1350). =/ Looks like I should start from scratch.
Hey blookazoo, be sure to visit the battle spot room on PS! as well. A lot of us there can help build a team with you by actively giving you advice and tips. Usually its better to post it here if you have an incomplete team but since you are planning to start from scratch, the battle spot room on PS! may be more helpful. Also, once your team is ready we can watch your battles and then tell you your mistakes after the battles (if any). As for the team, what pokemon or core are you thinking of building around?
 
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Except it survives almost any attack and has priority plus 4x super effective STAB moves of it own.

For example two Ice Shards destroy it.
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 160-192 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Didn't know about this. Ice Shard will always save you unless you don't OHKO but Chomp does with a boosted attack or something.
 
252+ Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 160-192 (86.9 - 104.3%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

Didn't know about this. Ice Shard will always save you unless you don't OHKO but Chomp does with a boosted attack or something.
Ice Shard is its' most used Ice move. It's on 89%.

If scarfed:
252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 304-364 (166.1 - 198.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (3 hits of Icicle Spear do slightly less)
252 Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 144-172 (78.6 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mamo is the definition for anti-meta when it comes to BSS. It can't necessarily switch in to Chomp because of sheer power, even if Jolly. And if using SD:

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 165-195 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 77-91 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 153-181 (82.7 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I find this to be a particularly impressive demonstration of power:
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 246-291 (132.9 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Ice Shard is its' most used Ice move. It's on 89%.

If scarfed:
252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 304-364 (166.1 - 198.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO (3 hits of Icicle Spear do slightly less)
252 Atk Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 144-172 (78.6 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Mamo is the definition for anti-meta when it comes to BSS. It can't necessarily switch in to Chomp because of sheer power, even if Jolly. And if using SD:

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Dragon Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 165-195 (89.1 - 105.4%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Rock Slide vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 77-91 (41.6 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 153-181 (82.7 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I find this to be a particularly impressive demonstration of power:
+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 246-291 (132.9 - 157.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Since Dragon Claw is doing more than EQ I believe you have the calc on doubles.
 
Since Dragon Claw is doing more than EQ I believe you have the calc on doubles.
Yeah, you know I looked at that option and thought nah I wont change that. I wasn't going to put EQ on initially.

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mamoswine: 205-243 (110.8 - 131.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
 
Gengar
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Clear Smog
- Taunt
- Will-O-Wisp

Clefable (F)
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Calm Mind
- Thunder Wave
- Moonlight

Slowbro (F)
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 244 HP / 252 Def / 12 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 HP
- Psyshock
- Scald
- Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

Nidoqueen
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sludge Wave
- Earth Power
- Stealth Rock
- Counter

Alakazam (F)
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Psyshock
- Energy Ball
- Encore

Snorlax
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 148 HP / 252 Atk / 108 Def
Adamant Nature
- Self-Destruct
- Whirlwind
- Body Slam
- Pursuit

My team for Kanto Classic. The last slot is tough. I have a big problem with Sleep Powder-Venomoth can guarantee the foe a win for the mos part. I also have a small problem with electrics. I've thought about a couple things, namely Electabuzz, Venusaur, and Sucker Punch Victreebell, but none seem very good, and did rather not have three things weak to Psychic.

I've tried Slowbro in the last slot, and decided to toss it since it only exacerbates my two main problems, is a third ghost weak Poke, and is just quite frail specially. Originally I was using Primeape, which kinda helps with the Slee problem(tho Venomoth can beat it with a QD boost,) but doesn't help much with Zapdos at all, unless I get lucky with Rock Slide flinches or something. Even so, if I can't find anything else I'll just go back to Primeape, though the extra Psychic weakness sucks.
 
cant say edit: I moved this to the teambuilding help thread as the kanto classic thread is for metagame discussion. also added hide tags

This format caught my interest. As a callback to my red and blue days I'm going to use a team of my favorite gen 1 Pokemon. Here is what I have so far. FWI I'm not gonna be playing super serious.
Magneton Sturdy
Timid 4 hp 252 sp.attk 252 speed
T-wave
Thunderbolt/Hp ice
Flash cannon
Volt Switch

My favorite gen 1 Pokemon. Trying to decide between hp ice or T-bolt. Leaning toward hp ice atm. T-wave is for speed control and helps my second Pokemon. Also being the only steel type in the format a great check to clefable whom I hear is quite dominant in this format due to its versatility.

Gengar Levitate
Timid 4hp 252 sp.attk 252 speed
Will-o-wisp/Toxic
Hex
Venoshock
Taunt/Toxic/Substitute

My second favorite gen 1 Pokemon. This is a set I wrote off a long time ago due to the gimmicky nature of it. The point of the set should be quite obvious consider I chose hex and venoshock over sludge bomb and shadow ball.

Electrode Aftermath
Timid 116Hp 140sp.attack 252 speed
Thunder
T-wave
Swagger
Foul play

My third favorite Pokemon. Normally I would never run two electric types on 1 team, or ever use electrode for that matter. But I just want to have fun with this and use my favorites. This ev spread was designed to snipe aerodactyl who think they'll predict the taunt and use earthquake instead. Since too much investment was needed for t-bolt to guarantee the KO, I opted for the inaccurate thunder instead which kos 4 hp aerodactyl 100 percent of the time. Also T-wave swagger shenanigans.

Tentacruel Liquid ooze
Modest
72 Sp. attack 252 speed 4 def 4sp.def 172 Hp
Toxic Spikes
Hydro Pump
Acid Spray
Haze

Not one of my favorite gen 1 Pokemon, I don't dislike it though since it has the option to support Gengar with Toxic Spikes and also a second clefable check. The ev spread and nature guarantees the OHKO on 4 hp Nidoking with hydro pump and max speed to also out speed all neutral nature Nidoking.

This is all I have at the moment, a little help and advice with the last two members would be appreciated.
 
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Hi guys, i'm new to pokemon battling and to all the competitive world around it. I want to start with a simple and easy team to build(speaking about simple, i prefer also a simple team to breed). Should i start breeding a pokemon that i like or going for the easiest?
I read a lot of guides in this days, so i have a general idea. But if you can explain me more about the suggested team, i really appreciated.
Thank you for the help.

P.s: If can help some of my favorite pokemons are: Volcarona, Hippowdon, Crobat e Cloyster.
 

Psynergy

Triumph and Glory
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Hi guys, i'm new to pokemon battling and to all the competitive world around it. I want to start with a simple and easy team to build(speaking about simple, i prefer also a simple team to breed). Should i start breeding a pokemon that i like or going for the easiest?
I read a lot of guides in this days, so i have a general idea. But if you can explain me more about the suggested team, i really appreciated.
Thank you for the help.

P.s: If can help some of my favorite pokemons are: Volcarona, Hippowdon, Crobat e Cloyster.
If you're looking for a simple start, I would recommend starting with either Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Blaziken as they're both two of the most simple and effective Megas to use in BSS. It's hard to give advice when you have little to work off of but it's definitely more fun to plan your own team if you start with a favorite that's also reasonably effective in the format. With that, Volcarona, Hippowdon and Cloyster are all fine choices in BSS. Volcarona often works as a Quiver Dance sweeper though it needs support to handle Talonflame and Fire-types in general, and if it chooses not to run HP Ice then something to handle Dragons like Salamence. Cloyster functions as a Shell Smash sweeper though naturally has to be careful with stuff like Thundurus and Suicune. Hippowdon is commonly used on cores with Mega Lucario and a dragon (often Dragonite) so that's a core you could start with if you're looking to go that direction. Either way it's tough to give specific help until you've decided what you want to run, but hopefully this gives you some ideas.
 
If you're looking for a simple start, I would recommend starting with either Mega Kangaskhan or Mega Blaziken as they're both two of the most simple and effective Megas to use in BSS. It's hard to give advice when you have little to work off of but it's definitely more fun to plan your own team if you start with a favorite that's also reasonably effective in the format. With that, Volcarona, Hippowdon and Cloyster are all fine choices in BSS. Volcarona often works as a Quiver Dance sweeper though it needs support to handle Talonflame and Fire-types in general, and if it chooses not to run HP Ice then something to handle Dragons like Salamence. Cloyster functions as a Shell Smash sweeper though naturally has to be careful with stuff like Thundurus and Suicune. Hippowdon is commonly used on cores with Mega Lucario and a dragon (often Dragonite) so that's a core you could start with if you're looking to go that direction. Either way it's tough to give specific help until you've decided what you want to run, but hopefully this gives you some ideas.
Thank you for the tips, i give a look for the "Hippowdon team". I was looking for Manectric in the past days, but the hidden power ice seems so difficult to breed for a newbie. If you have the time can you post a sample of a team with Hippowdon? I have also to catch all dittos for now. What a difficult game to start!
 

Demantoid

APMS Founder
is a Top Tiering Contributor
Thank you for the tips, i give a look for the "Hippowdon team". I was looking for Manectric in the past days, but the hidden power ice seems so difficult to breed for a newbie. If you have the time can you post a sample of a team with Hippowdon? I have also to catch all dittos for now. What a difficult game to start!
If you go to the giveaway section in wifi there's a Ditto giveaway that has Hidden Power Ditto which make it a lot easier to breed (and a 6 iv Ditto).
 

Psynergy

Triumph and Glory
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Staff Alumnus
Battle Stadium Head
Thank you for the tips, i give a look for the "Hippowdon team". I was looking for Manectric in the past days, but the hidden power ice seems so difficult to breed for a newbie. If you have the time can you post a sample of a team with Hippowdon? I have also to catch all dittos for now. What a difficult game to start!
This thread has several high ranked teams from several seasons ago, but notably there are two with Hippowdon (one with Hippowdon and Cloyster) that you can check out. I can't find a sample team featuring Hippowdon, Lucario and Dragonite that isn't all in Japanese but if you're interested in taking a look at one and trying to decipher it yourself, there are a few here and here that utilize the core.
 
http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/oras-other-teams.292/

A few of your Pokemon look interesting, Power Gem on Ampharos is used for what, Volcarona? Have you thought about dropping it for something like Thunder Wave or Volt Switch? Hippowdon doesn't really need Rock Slide, why not Rock Tomb, Stealth Rock or Whirlwind? Is Clefable built to beat Breloom and that's it? You could put Safety Goggles on Aegislash and he'd do the same thing, and then you would have a whole teamslot free. Avalugg looks really interesting, have you saved any replays of it in action?
I just encountered another great pro for safety goggles unaware clefable: in sand and hail it fools people to believe clefable is magic guard instead of unaware and start setting up on it. I just encountered this against a garchomp who used swords dance against my clefable cause saw clefable getting no damage from the sand and clefable was paralysed so otherwise i would have lost the game :o


Hippowdon does not necessary has to go along with lucario and dragonite it also works as a physical wall fine on itself cause he also wants volcarona and cloyster and i dont know if volcarona cloyster hippowdon mega lucario dragonite mega kanghaskan will be a cohesive team. The idea of having lucario alongside hippowdon is because hippowdon can phase with yawn/whirlwind and stealth rocks but that can also work with other sweepers.
 
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