Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Very cool and creative team! After some thinking, here are a few suggestions:

Substitute over Fake out on Persian, and 252 speed EVs. If I am not mistaken, your current team just get swept by Contrary Specs Serperior. With Sub, you can stall it out of PP. Sub also lets you scout for most megas because of persian's high speed. It also helps against OHKO users like walrein, which you mentioned was a threat. It is also a great move to have in general, in sharp contrast to fake out, which is essentially useless in most battles. If you boost the speed to at least tie with azelf, and change EVs to survive +2 energy ball/Tbolt, you are well covered against azelf anyways.

Haze on Toxapex over protect. The ability to stop set-up is much more worth than protect in the long run, I think. A bulky team like this also has good switch opportunities to scout against most pokemon anyways. It also shuts down scizor and ferro completely, which means you can swap fire fang on gliscor for something much more useful. You should definitly get one with haze imo, and seeing how helpful many smogonites are, it shouldn't be too difficult to get one. :)

Toxic over Fire fang on Gliscor. Remove those attack EVs. Toxic is a much better move in general. It also allows gliscor to be a much greater threat on its own, as sometimes you're forced to sack some of your teammates. If you can't get enough berries to remove the attack EVs, try to get an EV trained one in a trade. Those EVs are very significant for its bulk.

Good luck :)
Thank you so much for the advice! I was thinking of trying again, and I will definitely take your advice if I do!

I hadn't even thought about Substitute on Persian because I don't usually think of him as needing to stay on the field for long. You're right that it would be more helpful than Fake Out overall so I don't always have to sacrifice Persian to OHKO users, and it pairs really well with Parting Shot switching and Leftovers.

I would still be really worried about Azelf-3 without Fake Out though because I can adjust Persian's EVs to take a regular +2 Energy Ball/Thunderbolt, but not a Critical. It kills Toxapex easily at +2, and Gliscor doesn't have a 100% accuracy move that can hit it. There's a pretty low chance of the worst case scenario happening here, but I still find it worrisome.

Thanks for the suggestions, and I will let you know how it goes if I try again!
 
This team features my highest streak so far. And it's in Singles.
I never really thought I was going to get this high in the Battle Tree. However, I do know exactly how I messed up in the battle I lost in.
But we'll get to that later. Streak was 771 btw.

View attachment 185531
Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Return
- Dragon Dance
- Substitute
- Roost

Mega Salamence, being the powerful Pokemon it is, is great for this team. Getting an Intimidate off on the majority of the Tree is great, especially since Chansey has low Defense and Aegislash's weakness to Earthquake and physical Dark-type moves. Return, coupled with Aerilate hits hard even without a Dragon Dance boost. However, with a boost, it hits even harder. Originally, (and I mean way back in maybe even 2017), I ran Earthquake on Salamence. However, I got advice from the Discord Server, that Substitute is much more useful, as it allows Salamence to avoid being statused by Rotom appliances, Spiritomb, and most importantly, (or so I found), just barely outspeeding and killing Charizard-4 (Mega Charizard X) with a Return after a Dragon Dance boost. Forgot to add this originally, but Roost is for recovery.

How I used it:
Salamence was used as a lead Pokemon, firing Intimidates off on physical Pokemon. In front of a special Pokemon or an Ice-type however, Chansey or Aegislash were the switch-ins.
View attachment 185532
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Atk
Quiet Nature
- Flash Cannon
- King's Shield
- Shadow Ball
- Shadow Sneak

Aegislash is one of the best Pokemon in the game, being able to recover to full health simply just from its signature move, King's Shield, crippling physical attackers by lowering their Attack stat, while also recovering from its Leftovers. Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball are good neutral STABs. Lastly, Shadow Sneak is a great way to pick off weakened Pokemon. I have always been told to run physical attacks on it. But I do not like it.

How I used it:
Aegislash switches on Pokemon that can beat Salamence. It also has great type synergy with Mega Salamence, as switching into Mega Salamence (or regular Salamence usually) make Ground-type moves useless, while Aegislash's defensive typing takes hits for Mega Salamence, usually Dragon Claw, Outrage, Stone Edge, Rock Slide, Meteor Mash, and so on.
View attachment 185533
Chansey @ Eviolite
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Minimize
- Soft-Boiled
- Seismic Toss

Before, I write about Chansey, big thanks to Smuckem (or Smucks as I like to call him) for supplying me with Chansey. Now on to the actual post.

Chansey is an unexpectedly good tank for special hits. Being able to get rid of status with Natural Cure is great too. However, sometimes being burned is, though less than okay, can be used to one's advantage since it also blocks other status. Speaking of status though, Substitute is used to block status and gives strong physical attackers another wall to hit. Minimize raises Chansey's evasion, making it even harder to hit. Soft-Boiled is self-explanatory, recovering Chansey's HP. Lastly, Seismic Toss is Chansey's only attacking move.

How I used it:
At times, if things are looking dire, Chansey can be used to PP stall the opponent, such as Curse + Amnesia Registeel, Rest users, and sometimes Mega Gengar.

---
View attachment 185534View attachment 185535
The team seems to struggle against Dark-types, since some are physical and some are special, which is also the reason why when Grimsley shows up, my head begins to sweat profusely. Most notably though, it's usually Tyranitar who breaks this team, since Tyranitar3 has the STAB combination to hit Mega Salamence with Rock Slide and Aegislash with Crunch, and targets Chansey's frail Defense stat. Tyranitar4 is actually more of a reliever, but still something to be feared. Other Dragon Dancers, such as Charizard4, though serviceable are still scary to go up against. In my opinion, the scariest Dragon Dancer is Gyarados4, having the scariest set of DDance, Waterfall (for just hitting hard in general), Crunch (to where I have to play King's Shield mindgames), and Stone Edge (which hits Mega Salamence hard).
View attachment 185536View attachment 185537View attachment 185538
Although, another counter seems to appear in Defiant. If you look closely at my team, Dark-types are somewhat troublesome to handle, which is also the reason why some told me to use Sacred Sword on Aegislash, and at times, I wish I did, but for whatever reason, I didn't want to use it. Salamence's Intimidate can hit Bisharp or (to some people say) Thundurus, specifically physical Thundurus. These Pokemon are always threatening as leads. And while Bisharp I can understand, Thundurus, not so much. Plus, (and I'll use Bisharp and Thundurus as examples here) I somewhat made the argument of you have to consider that the Pokemon they lead with is not only Bisharp or Thundurus, not just the fact that they lead, but also the fact that they actually have Defiant. As such, those with small rosters such as Grimsley still scare me a tiny bit, as it's a higher chance for them to have that Bisharp. But then again, they could lead with something different as well. Plus, Aegislash comes in handy against Tornadus and Thundurus with Defiant. Against Bisharp though, sacking off a Pokemon will be required one hundred percent of the time.

So, in conclusion, the biggest counter to this team is most likely Defiant Bisharp if it is leading.

Anyways, the loss video (Battle 772) is right here: FQZG - WWWW - WWX8 - NRMG
View attachment 185539View attachment 185541View attachment 185540
What I should have done is set up more Dragon Dances in front of Emboar4 so Gyarados4 would have been OHKOed by Mega Salamence's Return. However, I was half asleep at the time so I kind of lost it. I guess you could say I was "Carrie-d" away, right?

That's it.

Anyways, I'll still be lurking. Hopefully this is a good team. I saw this team on Amino and I could have sworn GG Unit saw the amino post too.
The person who used this team in the Amino post used a Dragon Dance set for Salamence with a tiny bit of special bulk and a Brave Nature for Aegislash but Chansey was the same. And hopefully IBG will not be angered. I've started to get apprehensive about it now.

Here's the Amino Post: https://aminoapps.com/c/pokemon/pag...per-singles-489/xEh2_ux0GRxraXX8eWlpRp3oB5qLB
Lol the post literally says at the very beginning that they got the team from me. I had the #1 streak with it before I started using my current #1 team, and I think I even had #1 and #2 at the same time at some point. You used a worse Aegislash set with no boosting which is not what my team or the one in the post you linked has, but yes this is just more evidence that using these three Pokemon is pretty much a foolproof way to get a long singles streak.
 
Last edited:
Would you say the team is good? Or bad? Or average?

And about Aegislash, I made it apparent before, but I just do not like using physical Aegislash. If anything, I think special Aegislash works just fine for this team.
I mean if you could get 700+ with it, way more than you've gotten with any other team in any format, I think you answered your own question. It was just kind of weird to see the lengths you went to dance around the fact that the team is nothing new to anyone who's been looking at this thread even sporadically (even linking to a post from elsewhere that says from the outset they got the team from me and detailing how people in Discord had to tell you to just use the better Salamence set that all the other teams used lol) while providing such insightful(?) nuggets as "Chansey is an unexpectedly good tank for special hits." It's pretty much been established from the time Pokebank came out that those are the best 3 Pokemon to use if you don't want to use Truant and the team's threats have been covered quite thoroughly, so again the "gosh is this team I came up with a good one?" schtick is very bizarre.

Obviously Aegislash does much less work than the other two team members and is mostly there to pivot/switch stall and use King's Shield (its usage over something like Gliscor or Suicune is justified almost solely its ability to transform any choiced Head Smash/Stone Edge lead from being a threat that puts you down 3-2 with a crit and switches out before whatever you send out next can boost to being additional set-up fodder, and any disadvantages Aegislash would have over those two are more than made up for by Chansey setting up on any special attacker), so if you're gonna choose one Pokemon on the team to use suboptimally for the sake of being "unique," that would be the one. Although if you list Dark types as your biggest weakness and lost to a Mega Gyarados, maybe it would've been good for Aegislash to have a move that hits Dark types super effectively or to not have a speed-reducing nature so it could outspeed something like Scrafty and KO it with said super-effective move. Just spitballing though, what do I know.
 
Last edited:
Hi, new here but have played Pokemon since Yellow came out.
So for a bit of introduction, awhile back before I was even aware of this thread I felt like I had basically "solved" the Super Doubles Battle Tree when I got on a streak going over 200 which I only stopped to get the last starf berry reward, with a team of Mega Manectric, Garchomp, Tapu Fini, and Celesteela. (For this reason I don't mind this not being counted on here and I didn't save the last battle to be eligible anyways. However I thought battle #121 ME8W-WWWW-WWX8-QUDL here at least was funny enough to share because it was a Celesteela 1 vs 4 comeback after a Fissure Dugtrio almost ruined me with hax.)

But anyways in more recent months I tried getting back into it with Super Singles battles, experimenting with several different pokemon and teams. I like trying various strats even if not all provenly optimal yet, theorycrafting stressing type synergies in particular. It felt like singles was proving to be harder or less consistent at least for reasons most notably including the fact that your options are more limited.
The team I found the most success with so far was Mega Mawile, Latios, and Chansey (set details can be seen in sheet below) with a streak of 97, battle video 8KUW-WWWW-WWX8-QTG2. I lost due to an Archeops Earthquake crit and then speedtie loss vs Latios but could've prevented that situation, and think the team has more potential.

The main reason I'm posting here though is that during all my singles theorycrafting I've also produced some supporting Google sheets documents I thought could be useful to some people here. One is a more personalized records tracking sheet I could share later but mainly wanted to share this Battle Tree Team MU Analysis sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-u4sQXGKzEwCuk3PqB1UvN8E57nlwFp7uHd8G2FeBGY/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks to Skewtr whose Battle Tree Lookup sheet as linked in the OP I used as a base. Basically my sheet is a continuation that allows you to input your team's pokemon/sets and calculates individual matchups vs all 996 enemy battle tree pokemon as good/even/bad based on attack move and defending pokemon types from both sides and some associated overall data/statistics. This can help you more easily see and prepare for where your team's weaknesses may be. See usage instructions and notes in the README tab.

Interested in your input and hope this helps!
 
Last edited:
I am interested in your Mega Manectric team, would you mind posting it here?
Sure, well I experimented a bit but I think at the time the sets were:

Manectric-Mega @ Manectite
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpAt / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Discharge
- Snarl
- Flamethrower
- Volt Switch

Garchomp @ Assault Vest
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Rock Slide
- Outrage/Dragon Claw

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 156 Def / 96 SpD / 4 Spe
Careful Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Protect
- Flamethrower
- Leech Seed

Tapu Fini @ Waterium Z
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Modest Nature
- Moonblast/Dazzling Gleam
- Hydro Pump
- Calm Mind
- Ice Beam

Basically turn 1 choice was most commonly to either Discharge/Rock Slide or Volt Switch (into Celesteela)/Earthquake. You'd be surprised how much that alone actually covered and steamrolled from there. The back 2 provided solid defensive pivot options and the Hydro Vortex nuke in a pinch, all synergizing well.

By the way, I've already got some good feedback on how the MU sheet can be improved I'll try working on!
 
So I finally did it! For about a year (with gaps of several months in between) I have had a goal in Pokemon: Win 200 Super Single battles with Mega-Lucario as the lead. I tried several combinations and though defensive pokemon would have made this easier, after losing on battle 1xx with a sub/seed Celesteela I added to the challenge that I would not be using defensive strategies as they bored the heck out of me. This team is the one that did it. If you're looking for a hyper-offensive team that can blaze through fights, here is one I recommend.

Lost at battle 206 in a way that always beat me. J3YW-WWWW-WWX9-32BT. I'll say more under threats

Here's the team

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Substitute

The necessary part of the team, Lucario the non-setup-sweeper. A lot of battles, even higher up, just end with 3 Close Combats or maybe a Meteor Mash or 2. He makes a lot of fights trivial but has more than his fair share of hindrances. Mostly self explanatory. Get to know what you can and can't one shot because anything that hits decently strong will probably kill you if you don't kill it first. Bullet Punch to finish things off, or even straight up kill Carbink, A-Ninetales, or Some Aerodactyls and Rimbombees. Substitute is a move that changed around a lot, but although it kind of spits on my non-offensive approach, I think it is a necessary move to soak up status, scout, and even fish for misses on inaccurate moves, maybe even soften up an overheater or 2 before the switch. Needed for Mega-Gallade as he is unable to be 1-shot by Meteor Mash until after a def drop from close combat. My least favorite, but certainly necessary, move.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Fly
- Outrage

This guy is famously effective as a tree set-up sweeper and mine is no different. I had fire punch over fly, but found fly more powerful and effective overall and scizor/ferrothorn/skarmory aren't concerning enough for me to run fire coverage. Fly also helps me stall out things like weather or trick room in a pinch. Dragon/flying is great complimentary typing for Lucario as it is immune to ground and resists fire and fighting. Convesely Lucario, if needed, can switch into a Dragon, Rock, or Ice move. If he's stuck in outrage and comes up against a fairy/steel well that's just food for Lucario anyway.

Golem @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

This 3rd slot changed quite a bit, but once I picked Golem I knew I'd found my winning team. Mimikyu held the 3rd spot for a while but was ultimately innefective against the speedy electrics and powerful birds (Talonflame and Staraptor). I needed something to deal with what hit both dragonite and Lucario hard neutrally and so the major concerns were flying, electric, and psychic, though the only really dangerous psychic type was alakazam. not a lot can switch into focus blast and take a psychic well. While you may have noticed that golem doesn't really either, his access to sucker punch meant he killed alakazam, or knocked m-alakazam to 1hp (due to sturdy) for bullet punch to finish off, essentially making it a 2v2. He had 252 in hp and fire punch instead of rock polish initially, but transferring his hp to speed made all the difference in the world, paving the way to 200 wins. If he comes in on an electric or flying type he can rock polish and sometimes sweep outright. I decided Rockium-Z was best to ensure that he almost always had a guaranteed 1v1 win against most pokemon as there's not much that can handle z-stone edge + sucker punch. His speed investment also allowed me to use him as a Primirina switch in. Prim would activate sturdy on the switch but be outsped and ohko'ed by z-stone edge. Otherwise he is just an excellent revenge killer

Some usage notes for lead Lucario.

Arcanine- Close Comat if not intimidate, switch to d-nite if it is

Gyarados- Substitute. If he mega evolves then CC him because intimidate won't save him. If he DD's, CC as well because the AI seems to DD twice if you're behind the sub and you can kill him with 2 CC's and a BP

Gallade- Sub. If he mega evolves than the def drop he's going to get will be essential to ohko.

kangaskhan/weavile/ludicolo/shiftry etc.- Don't mega evolve on these guys right away as they are likely to fake you out and give you a speed boost that could help you out.

Alakazam- switch to golem and s-punch away

Infernape- sub so flare blitz breaks sash

Charizard- sub. If x, kill it. If y keep subbing to hope for a miss on heat wave. If not then it's been 4 turns and you can switch to golem as sun fades. You are then free to rock polish while he charges solar beam.

Rotom (all but fridge, just kill him) - Substitute to draw WoW or T-Wave. Then proceed to kill.

Heatran- Just hit him. If he's scarf or sash that's ok, because he's set-up fodder for d-nite

Threats

These things can really end the run. I'll start with the one that beat me the most

Noivern- Specifically king's rock Noivern. As a matter of fact, almost every time this team lost it was because of a flinch, or likely multiple flinches. If they lead with this guy he can't kill m-Luc without a crit so just meteor mash and hope for the odds to favor you. Other notable flinch monsters are Cynthia's togekiss with king's rock (grass knot gg golem) and the swift swim BEARTIC OF ALL THINGS that ended my run (With a little help from ludicolo fake out to finish off dragonite. Fear the flinches.

Staraptor- I never check sets, so I don't know which number is dangerous, but most of the time you want to switch dragonite in because he usually uses close combat (Or the useless endeavor), but if this guy leads with brave bird and follows up with fly z than bye-bye dragonite. It might be best to use the charts to find out if you're facing scarf, cause lucario can just ohko if he isn't scafed.

Salamence- Whichever one uses hydro pum/fire blast/ draco meteor. I see one of these and switch to d-nite for a hopeful earthquake, but if it's F-Blast than draco kills and I go to golem who polishes and gets hydro pumped. At that point I am at a big disadvantage, hoping for the right combination back-up pokemon. It may be a good idea to sub, but even then, there's no real safe switch.

Entei- Most of the time won't be ohko'ed and can't be safely switched into either. Sacrifice Lucario so that d-nite can set up 1 dd while eating a stone edge. Not a great position

Suicune/Wishiwashi- Both survive CC and might kill Lucario in return. There's nothing safe to switch into. Sub on wishi and he might rain dance or endeavor so it's not too bad.

Pelliper- Switch D-nite in. If he stockpiles you can dance. If he hits you just outrage right away and say goodbye to dragonite due to blizzard. Finish him with lucario. 2v2.

Bruxish/starmie/slowbro/slowking- Bruxish/starmie/Slowking are 2hko's with CC. After 1 they might kill you. You can sucker punch 2 of them to death but bruxish may have dazzling meaning you have to go to sturdy. Ouch. Slowbro however is the biggest problem for this team tank-wise, especially when mega'd. Access to blizzard and ability to suvive CC+ stone-z make this guy a 3hko that uses up the z move. Can definitely imagine a slowbro team taking this one down.

Jellicent- In line with the above mons, but not as bad. Subbing is usually fine as Jell will usually Trick Room or Will-O-Wisp. However luc may lose the 1v1 anyway. it's kind of 50/50. At least you can stall Trick Room with him.

Cynthia- Specifically if she leads with her own lucario. The best move is to just go straight for the kill. If you win the speed tie it's easy. Otherwise d-dance and kill lucario hoping she doesn't send togekiss out next. If she does, hope that garchomp isn't 3rd. If so, gg golem.

Thing that I hated with other teams that are now non-threats

Double Teamers- Rockium z for that zapdos. CC for regigigas. Steel type existing for Cresselia.



So that is my lengthy write-up on this team I am very proud of. Very fun, exciting, fast-paced, capable team...if you can get a SP Golem that is.
 
So I finally did it! For about a year (with gaps of several months in between) I have had a goal in Pokemon: Win 200 Super Single battles with Mega-Lucario as the lead. I tried several combinations and though defensive pokemon would have made this easier, after losing on battle 1xx with a sub/seed Celesteela I added to the challenge that I would not be using defensive strategies as they bored the heck out of me. This team is the one that did it. If you're looking for a hyper-offensive team that can blaze through fights, here is one I recommend.

Lost at battle 206 in a way that always beat me. J3YW-WWWW-WWX9-32BT. I'll say more under threats

Here's the team

Lucario-Mega @ Lucarionite
Ability: Steadfast
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Meteor Mash
- Bullet Punch
- Substitute

The necessary part of the team, Lucario the non-setup-sweeper. A lot of battles, even higher up, just end with 3 Close Combats or maybe a Meteor Mash or 2. He makes a lot of fights trivial but has more than his fair share of hindrances. Mostly self explanatory. Get to know what you can and can't one shot because anything that hits decently strong will probably kill you if you don't kill it first. Bullet Punch to finish things off, or even straight up kill Carbink, A-Ninetales, or Some Aerodactyls and Rimbombees. Substitute is a move that changed around a lot, but although it kind of spits on my non-offensive approach, I think it is a necessary move to soak up status, scout, and even fish for misses on inaccurate moves, maybe even soften up an overheater or 2 before the switch. Needed for Mega-Gallade as he is unable to be 1-shot by Meteor Mash until after a def drop from close combat. My least favorite, but certainly necessary, move.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Fly
- Outrage

This guy is famously effective as a tree set-up sweeper and mine is no different. I had fire punch over fly, but found fly more powerful and effective overall and scizor/ferrothorn/skarmory aren't concerning enough for me to run fire coverage. Fly also helps me stall out things like weather or trick room in a pinch. Dragon/flying is great complimentary typing for Lucario as it is immune to ground and resists fire and fighting. Convesely Lucario, if needed, can switch into a Dragon, Rock, or Ice move. If he's stuck in outrage and comes up against a fairy/steel well that's just food for Lucario anyway.

Golem @ Rockium Z
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk/ 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Rock Polish
- Sucker Punch
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

This 3rd slot changed quite a bit, but once I picked Golem I knew I'd found my winning team. Mimikyu held the 3rd spot for a while but was ultimately innefective against the speedy electrics and powerful birds (Talonflame and Staraptor). I needed something to deal with what hit both dragonite and Lucario hard neutrally and so the major concerns were flying, electric, and psychic, though the only really dangerous psychic type was alakazam. not a lot can switch into focus blast and take a psychic well. While you may have noticed that golem doesn't really either, his access to sucker punch meant he killed alakazam, or knocked m-alakazam to 1hp (due to sturdy) for bullet punch to finish off, essentially making it a 2v2. He had 252 in hp and fire punch instead of rock polish initially, but transferring his hp to speed made all the difference in the world, paving the way to 200 wins. If he comes in on an electric or flying type he can rock polish and sometimes sweep outright. I decided Rockium-Z was best to ensure that he almost always had a guaranteed 1v1 win against most pokemon as there's not much that can handle z-stone edge + sucker punch. His speed investment also allowed me to use him as a Primirina switch in. Prim would activate sturdy on the switch but be outsped and ohko'ed by z-stone edge. Otherwise he is just an excellent revenge killer

Some usage notes for lead Lucario.

Arcanine- Close Comat if not intimidate, switch to d-nite if it is

Gyarados- Substitute. If he mega evolves then CC him because intimidate won't save him. If he DD's, CC as well because the AI seems to DD twice if you're behind the sub and you can kill him with 2 CC's and a BP

Gallade- Sub. If he mega evolves than the def drop he's going to get will be essential to ohko.

kangaskhan/weavile/ludicolo/shiftry etc.- Don't mega evolve on these guys right away as they are likely to fake you out and give you a speed boost that could help you out.

Alakazam- switch to golem and s-punch away

Infernape- sub so flare blitz breaks sash

Charizard- sub. If x, kill it. If y keep subbing to hope for a miss on heat wave. If not then it's been 4 turns and you can switch to golem as sun fades. You are then free to rock polish while he charges solar beam.

Rotom (all but fridge, just kill him) - Substitute to draw WoW or T-Wave. Then proceed to kill.

Heatran- Just hit him. If he's scarf or sash that's ok, because he's set-up fodder for d-nite

Threats

These things can really end the run. I'll start with the one that beat me the most

Noivern- Specifically king's rock Noivern. As a matter of fact, almost every time this team lost it was because of a flinch, or likely multiple flinches. If they lead with this guy he can't kill m-Luc without a crit so just meteor mash and hope for the odds to favor you. Other notable flinch monsters are Cynthia's togekiss with king's rock (grass knot gg golem) and the swift swim BEARTIC OF ALL THINGS that ended my run (With a little help from ludicolo fake out to finish off dragonite. Fear the flinches.

Staraptor- I never check sets, so I don't know which number is dangerous, but most of the time you want to switch dragonite in because he usually uses close combat (Or the useless endeavor), but if this guy leads with brave bird and follows up with fly z than bye-bye dragonite. It might be best to use the charts to find out if you're facing scarf, cause lucario can just ohko if he isn't scafed.

Salamence- Whichever one uses hydro pum/fire blast/ draco meteor. I see one of these and switch to d-nite for a hopeful earthquake, but if it's F-Blast than draco kills and I go to golem who polishes and gets hydro pumped. At that point I am at a big disadvantage, hoping for the right combination back-up pokemon. It may be a good idea to sub, but even then, there's no real safe switch.

Entei- Most of the time won't be ohko'ed and can't be safely switched into either. Sacrifice Lucario so that d-nite can set up 1 dd while eating a stone edge. Not a great position

Suicune/Wishiwashi- Both survive CC and might kill Lucario in return. There's nothing safe to switch into. Sub on wishi and he might rain dance or endeavor so it's not too bad.

Pelliper- Switch D-nite in. If he stockpiles you can dance. If he hits you just outrage right away and say goodbye to dragonite due to blizzard. Finish him with lucario. 2v2.

Bruxish/starmie/slowbro/slowking- Bruxish/starmie/Slowking are 2hko's with CC. After 1 they might kill you. You can sucker punch 2 of them to death but bruxish may have dazzling meaning you have to go to sturdy. Ouch. Slowbro however is the biggest problem for this team tank-wise, especially when mega'd. Access to blizzard and ability to suvive CC+ stone-z make this guy a 3hko that uses up the z move. Can definitely imagine a slowbro team taking this one down.

Jellicent- In line with the above mons, but not as bad. Subbing is usually fine as Jell will usually Trick Room or Will-O-Wisp. However luc may lose the 1v1 anyway. it's kind of 50/50. At least you can stall Trick Room with him.

Cynthia- Specifically if she leads with her own lucario. The best move is to just go straight for the kill. If you win the speed tie it's easy. Otherwise d-dance and kill lucario hoping she doesn't send togekiss out next. If she does, hope that garchomp isn't 3rd. If so, gg golem.

Thing that I hated with other teams that are now non-threats

Double Teamers- Rockium z for that zapdos. CC for regigigas. Steel type existing for Cresselia.



So that is my lengthy write-up on this team I am very proud of. Very fun, exciting, fast-paced, capable team...if you can get a SP Golem that is.
Cool team, I'm guessing you did this on Ultra Sun because Slowbro (Dexio) is a lot more common in the other game. With this and the Omastar team from a while back, it's good to see people coming across to the idea that something like Substitute or a debuffing move on a lead is objectively better than some random coverage attack and in many cases allows you to clear battles more quickly than if you just mindlessly threw together a team where every moveslot is either a damaging or boosting move.
 
Cool team, I'm guessing you did this on Ultra Sun because Slowbro (Dexio) is a lot more common in the other game. With this and the Omastar team from a while back, it's good to see people coming across to the idea that something like Substitute or a debuffing move on a lead is objectively better than some random coverage attack and in many cases allows you to clear battles more quickly than if you just mindlessly threw together a team where every moveslot is either a damaging or boosting move.
It was Ultra Sun indeed. I shudder to think that the version of the game may in fact be critical to this team's success.

Substitute was t-punch for some things like slow things and non mega gyarados. Only when gyarados survived it did I join team sub for good
 
It was Ultra Sun indeed. I shudder to think that the version of the game may in fact be critical to this team's success.
It does sound funny, but the exclusive trainers (namely Dexio and Sina, though Guzma has some degree to this too) have some threats that are otherwise quite rare, expecially the dreaded Sina who is very lethal to a lot of Doubles comp due to her featuring a LOT of rng-inducing scenarios with Blizzard, Trick Room and freezes in general.
 
Well I think I got the Battle Tree Team MU Analysis sheet to a substantially improved enough point to share again now. Here is version 3!: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Mq6PmNnViq_-rmfFrkX8mXUC1K7xVEzbynPP8k4tS6Y/edit?usp=sharing

Basically trainer/pokemon ranges of appearance and damage calcs now implemented. That would just leave future enhancements regarding status moves, items, abilities, certain moves like Freeze-Dry etc. I can work on next, so that custom formulas or manually adjusted values won't be necessary anymore. Will take any other suggestions.
 
I made it to a battle 30 something in super single battles and my last Pokémon lost to a sceptile this a focus sash and endeavor and quick attack. I didn’t even know the battle tree could do that!
There's also a staraptor with that set but believe me, you saw nothing of the atrocities lurking there ... D:
 
This is more a vent than anything, I just lost my 3rd streak in a row on battle #32, unlucky number for me apparently. I'm just aiming to hit 50 in Super Singles without looking up sets or doing damage calculations (because I don't have that kind of dedication). I've got decent natures and good IVs, never really learned how to calculate EVs (note again my lack of dedication).

Current team:
Kartana, Rash(?)
Focus Sash
Leaf Blade
Sacred Sword
X-Scissor
Smart Strike


Dragonite, Jolly
Lum Berry
Arial Ace
Dragon Dance
Roost
Earthquake


Mimikyu, Adamant
Leftovers
Shadow Sneak
Play Rough
Protect
Curse
(thanks to whoever on this forum noted the usefulness of this)

I played with using Double Team instead of Protect on Mimikyu, didn't go all that well. Even after going +3 or 4 on evasion I was still taking more hits than made it worth it.

I think with a little luck I should be able to brute force my way to 50 wins. Could probably find a better item for Mimikyu, doesn't typically live long enough to really take advantage of leftovers. Basic plan is hyper offense with Kartana and Dragonite, when that won't work lay down curse on whatever is stalling me. Farms BP well enough at least.

Any gaping holes I should address? Overall I enjoy the team, but I do have some other decent mons I could switch in (again with favorable natures and at least good IVs): Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, All of the Tapus, Kommo-O, Aegislash, Suicuine and probably others I'm forgetting.
 

Eisenherz

επέκεινα της ουσίας
is a Top Smogon Social Media Contributor
This is more a vent than anything, I just lost my 3rd streak in a row on battle #32, unlucky number for me apparently. I'm just aiming to hit 50 in Super Singles without looking up sets or doing damage calculations (because I don't have that kind of dedication). I've got decent natures and good IVs, never really learned how to calculate EVs (note again my lack of dedication).

Current team:
Kartana, Rash(?)
Focus Sash
Leaf Blade
Sacred Sword
X-Scissor
Smart Strike


Dragonite, Jolly
Lum Berry
Arial Ace
Dragon Dance
Roost
Earthquake


Mimikyu, Adamant
Leftovers
Shadow Sneak
Play Rough
Protect
Curse
(thanks to whoever on this forum noted the usefulness of this)

I played with using Double Team instead of Protect on Mimikyu, didn't go all that well. Even after going +3 or 4 on evasion I was still taking more hits than made it worth it.

I think with a little luck I should be able to brute force my way to 50 wins. Could probably find a better item for Mimikyu, doesn't typically live long enough to really take advantage of leftovers. Basic plan is hyper offense with Kartana and Dragonite, when that won't work lay down curse on whatever is stalling me. Farms BP well enough at least.

Any gaping holes I should address? Overall I enjoy the team, but I do have some other decent mons I could switch in (again with favorable natures and at least good IVs): Metagross, Salamence, Tyranitar, All of the Tapus, Kommo-O, Aegislash, Suicuine and probably others I'm forgetting.
This is definitely the kind of team that should be able to get you to 50 if you're willing to give it a few shots, however, I do think some things could be improved to make things easier on yourself:

- If possible, a Kartana with a nature that boosts a useful stat (attack or speed) would definitely help, ideally Jolly. I would suggest replacing X-Scissor with Knock Off if you have access to USUM tutors, since it offers better coverage and some utility as well.

- Dragonite should definitely be running Outrage, probably over Aerial Ace. After a Dragon Dance, Outrage can sweep through several teams on its own, and the Lum Berry will snap you out of confusion. You may want to consider leading Dragonite rather than Kartana, since Dragonite is not great as a switch-in (you don't want Multiscale broken). Since you're almost always going to boost with Dragon Dance, an Adamant Dragonite is probably better, but Jolly is fine if you can't be bothered.

- Mimikyu's best item here would most likely be a Z crystal. If you're playing in USUM, Mimikium Z is ideal, otherwise Fairium Z; both have the advantage of letting you use Play Rough without fear of missing. Substitute could be a nice option over Protect, not only would it allow Mimikyu to stall out a Curse turn if necessary, but it would prevent status moves from slower Pokémon, which I'm sure you noticed there are quite a few in the Tree. Alternatively, Mimikyu can make good use of Swords Dance, and the Disguise can be used to guarantee setting one up, so you may want to consider that.

Having maxed out EVs in relevant stats would certainly be a big help, have you considered using Poké Pelago for that?

I hope these tips are going to be helpful, good luck in your next attempts!
 
I think I must be mis-remembering Kartana's nature as I was pretty sure it's +speed. I've been meaning to hunt for a Jolly one but never got around to it. I'm in Ultra Sun, so I'll look into Knock Off.

Dragonite isn't running Outrage because of one bad experience. I was on a decent (for me) run and I'm down to just Dragonite, but +3 on on Dragon Dances so I'm feeling pretty good. Out comes Togekiss and I can't do anything. This is probably a bad reason not to run it in general but I was pretty annoyed. Aerial Ace is only mildly useful, but hits decently enough once set up, so no real attachment to it.

Substitute is definitely an option, this is my first time using a battle facility so I'm just learning as I go, but I have noticed a lot of people on here seem to use it pretty successfully.

Thanks for the tips. Actually let's make this a double thank you because you sent me a 6IV Ditto in your giveaway thread and it's saved me about a zillion hours in breeding.
 
Alright, I got a streak of 154 in Super Singles in Moon.
After playing around a lot with different teams, I finally landed on this one. I was a little disappointed that my teams with Shell Smash + Sturdy Crustle didn't make the cut. I thought for sure he was a part of a winning strategy, but there were just too many fast Pokemon that outsped even him (not to mention speed priority users). I also really like my Rash Pheromosa with Quiver Dance and Beast Boost (+SpA each kill), but type coverage was an issue.

1566443933040.png
Terrakion @ Focus Sash
Jolly Nature
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
- Close Combat
- Rock Slide
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

A lot of the time he doesn't need to set up with Swords Dance to kill off the first Pokemon and give my team a 3-vs-2 advantage because STAB Close Combat is so powerful, but there are a lot of opponents that can take a hit, which is when I Swords Dance instead of attacking. Actually, as a general rule, always Swords Dance first unless:
* The opposing Pokemon will get OHKOed with any of Terrakion's attacking moves.
* The opposing Pokemon could be faster than Terrakion
* The opposing Pokemon could have Sturdy or a Focus Sash
Most of the time, except for Pokemon faster than 108 base speed (and can take a hit from Terrakion without fainting), it's a 3-vs-2 advantage, which I found to be extremely important in the Battle Tree.

1566443969281.png
Scizor ♂ @ Life Orb
Adamant Nature
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Attack / 4 Speed
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Bug Bite
- Superpower

Standard Life Orb Scizor. One Swords Dance and he can kill off most anything that doesn't resist Bullet Punch. Bug Bite is for those that resist steel (but not bug). Superpower is for the occasion he needs to hit other steel types. He's basically the next in line because he can set up a Swords Dance on most Pokemon while still having half his HP left. The only times I won't use Scizor to set up or revenge kill are obviously on fire types which Salamence can. He does a phenomenal job against rocks, fairies, and ices, which is super nice to have with Mega Salamence on the back end.

1566443992982.png
Salamence ♂ @ Salamencite
Adamant Nature
Ability: Intimidate -> Aerilate
EVs: 100 HP / 252 Attack / 156 Speed
- Dragon Claw
- Return
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

Before I added him to the team, I kept getting wrecked by bulky fighting types because I simply didn't have the offense or defense to take them on. Like Scizor, one Dragon Dance and he can OHKO most things with Aerilated, STABed Return. I'll typically opt to set up with Salamence as opposed to Scizor on Fire and Fighting types. He and Scizor just complement each other so well (if they can get past Terrakion).


Obviously, this team's biggest weaknesses are Trick Room, the obnoxiously fast teams, and of course Water types which beat Scizor by resisting Bullet Punch and beat Salamence by always packing an ice type move. I survived a pretty good scare a couple of times during this run that I was completely convinced I was done for (No. 113 and No. 149).

No. 113 vs Collector Dennis: KD9W-WWWW-WWX9-VQMG
Basically, this battle was just me not thinking, so it really shouldn't have been as close as it was. He leads out with Porygon-Z, no problem to kill off with a quick Close Combat. Sends out dragonite, Rock Slide won't be good enough, and I forgot about ExtremeSpeed so Swords Danced, focus sashed and got dead by ExtremeSpeed (whoops!). Went with Salamence instead of Scizor since Dragonite could have Fire Punch, and I am glad I did. Intimidate cut Dragonite's attack well, but I forgot that Dragonite will be faster than my Salamence without Dragon Dancing. I naively used Dragon Claw which didn't even do half of Dragonite's HP, and Dragonite killed me the next turn. This is when I thought I was boned. The only reason Fire Punch didn't kill Scizor was because Salamence intimidated Dragonite (thank you). Swords Dance + Bullet Punch killed Dragonite, and I was just hoping that a water, fire, or electric type wouldn't be next. Luckily it was Tyrantrum which went down on one Bullet Punch.

No. 149 vs Raz: DMG-WWWW-WWX9-VRW9
Super speed team. Starts out with Accelgor (faster than Terrakion and will have a focus sash). Used Earthquake just to break the sash and got locked into an encore. Eh ok. Did another EQ and switched to Scizor (poor choice since fast teams will beat Terrakion no matter what). But anyway, I didn't want Scizor to be encored into Swords Dance, so I quickly revenge-killed with Bullet Punch. And comes out Noivern which always packs a Flamethrower. Crap, oh well. Bullet Punched away. Dragon Pulse from Noivern and Salamence is treading water. Dragon Dance + Dragon claw finishes off Noivern, and out comes Ribombee. Welp I lost... Dazzling gleam will kill my remaining two Pokemon. I probably should have invested a few more EVs into Salamence, but I made it before Gen 6 so I wasn't thinking about Mega Evolutions. Ribombee kills Salamence, and wait... it's slower than Terrakion? Oh it must be modest instead of timid. That was close.. too close. Terrakion Rock Slides Ribombee for the win.

LOSING BATTLE
No. 155 vs Veteran Demiathena: 44QW-WWWW-WWX9-VR9B
Sends out Latios, and there's no way Terrakion will OHKO Latios, so Swords Dance. Wait... Dope, Latios is faster than Terrakion. Oops. Psychic takes out Focus Sash, but at least it's choiced on Psychic since it didn't mega-evolve. Psychic deals out Terrakion's one last HP. Scizor resists Psychic so switch to him and Swords Dance + Bullet Punch. Let's hope the next Pokemon isn't Moltres... Well, Zapdos resists Bullet Punch too. Zapdos takes the Bullet Punch to over half HP, uses Thunder and misses (luckily). Bullet Punch finishes off Zapdos. ...And comes out Suicune. At this point I know I'm boned. Only hope is that Blizzard misses twice on Salamence. Bullet Punch and Scizor dies from a Surf. I send out Salamence as a final hope, and Blizzard kills him. Rock Slide instead of Swords Dance wouldn't have had an impact, so I'm not sure what I could've done differently besides switching to Salamence instead of Scizor to set up on the Psychic from Latios, but even then, Salamence and Scizor both would have a hard time against that bulky Suicune.

Alright, I'm off to finally go play Ultra Sun, breed and train up some new ones that I'm excited about. I'll figure out the doubles game eventually.
 
Last edited:
In doubles, this is where I'm at in my team building (yes I know I'm late to the party). I kind of really like the combination of Mega Charizard-Y with Choice Band Infernape. Flare Blitz & STAB & Choice Band & Drought has been working quite well as a non-setup sweeper (especially on his 3rd Flare Blitz thanks to Blaze). The thing is, I'm not sure what to have on the back-end. Currently, I've got Garchomp to deal with fire types, and I've tepidly got Thundurus because of Garchomp's EQ and he can Thunderbolt/Discharge/GrassKnot water types.

1566443489657.png
Charizard ♂ @ Charizardite Y
Timid Nature
Ability: Blaze -> Drought
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
- Heat Wave
- Air Slash
- Protect
- Solar Beam

1566443451645.png
Infernape ♂ @ Choice Band
Jolly Nature
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide

1566443760279.png
Thundurus @ Focus Sash
Timid Nature
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Special Attack / 252 Speed
- Thunderbolt
- Sludge Bomb
- Grass Knot
- Nasty Plot

1566443791228.png
Garchomp ♂ @ Lum Berry
Jolly Nature
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Poison Jab
- Swords Dance

It seems my collection of EV trained Pokemon might not be enough, so I'll be grabbing some more before Sword & Shield come out. But anyways, these are a couple of Megas with Adaptability I'm interested in making and trying out (for singles or doubles) because maybe I need a completely different strategy and also because I can imagine Mega Beedrill being really good in general. Yes, I am offensively-minded, thank you for asking.

1566443554429.png
Lucario @ Lucarionite
Jolly Nature
Ability: Steadfast -> Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
- Close Combat
- Bullet Punch
- Ice Punch
- Swords Dance/Earthquake/Substitute

1566443370901.png
Beedrill @ Beedrillite
Jolly Nature
Ability: Swarm -> Adaptability
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Attack / 252 Speed
- X-Scissor
- Poison Jab
- Drill Run
- Fell Stinger
 
In doubles, this is where I'm at in my team building (yes I know I'm late to the party). I kind of really like the combination of Mega Charizard-Y with Choice Band Infernape. Flare Blitz & STAB & Choice Band & Drought has been working quite well as a non-setup sweeper (especially on his 3rd Flare Blitz thanks to Blaze). The thing is, I'm not sure what to have on the back-end. Currently, I've got Garchomp to deal with fire types, and I've tepidly got Thundurus because of Garchomp's EQ and he can Thunderbolt/Discharge/GrassKnot water types.
Your composition isn't that much different from what i've used at the time to hit 140 or so.

A couple optimizations you could do:
1) Ditch Heat Wave and Air Slash on Charizard. They're inaccurate and Charizard isn't exactly the bulky pokemon that can afford to miss. When running Sun, you really want to either break both leads or at least trade 2 for 1 in turn 1 outside of bulky enemies. Flamethrower hits significantly harder on single target than Heat Wave, and you can round up with either Dragon Pulse (so you're not walled by dragons), Ancient Power (allows you to actually damage Heatran on top of hitting a few fliers that resist fire on top of oneshotting Talonflame Moltres and opposer Charizards), or HP Ice/Ground. Also, a minimal investment in HP (iirc, something like 50 EV, I would need to recheck) allow Charizard to survive some unstabbed Rock slides, most notably Bronzong34's ones, which otherwise threatens to either setup TR or QC 1hko you, while not really losing much of anything in term of damage due to its already massive Spatk.
2) Infernape's attack is already quite decent and he is insanely squishy and going to kill himself with recoil anyway, so I would suggest ditching Band for Life Orb, and replacing one of the attacks (most likely Rock Slide) for Fake Out. Charizard's biggest vulnerability is its mediocre speed, and Fake Out can buy you that one turn against speedy trainers necessary to get going. (By the way, Aerodactyl34 and Garchomp3 right now can single handedly mow down your entire team, expecially if combined with a second dangerous lead, and unfortunately they're common enough to need consideration)
3) Change your Garchomp and Thundurus sets. Setup moves are sorta pointless on backline pokemon: when they're coming in, you're likely in istant need to kill something right away and potentially in desperation mode cause your lead just got killed or forced out. I would personally suggest Z-move on Garchomp (potentially ground) and just replace both setup moves with Protect or a 4th coverage. Do note that Thundurus is decently fast and gets access to Sky Drop, which while not doing much damage can be pretty precious in buying out a TR or weather turn to perform a swap, while another option could be Smack Down to let your Garchomp be able to hit fliers more easily with his main stab.
Z-move on Infernape and LO on Garchomp is also a possibility if you want a bigger chance to murder something turn one and don't mind the risk of not being able to use Earthquake while Infernape is still on the field.

Hope this helps. If you're curious of it, my streak with a very similar comp and a bigger analysis is available here
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...ion-and-records.3587215/page-112#post-7557884


Edit: Ah, I've tried to use Mega Beedrill, and contrary to what you'd expect, he's sadly terrible. He's super fast, but not fast enough to get the jump on scarfers, and his stabs are awful. You'd be surprised by how many times it does basically nothing turn 1 :(
 
Last edited:
I'm going to be streaming soon. Will start off with a battle video or two before trying to add to the streak (currently at 4260).

Link

The beginning of the stream showed the video of the most dramatic battle of the streak. Battle summary: Scarf Entei KOed Durant, Glalie wasn't able to KO the Thundurus on the switch-in because of negative Accuracy boosts, Thundurus hit Glalie with a Prankster Taunt (through +4 or +5 Evasion) the turn it got KOed, Entei hit Glalie again the following turn to break its Substitute and with negative Sp. Def boosts and no ability to Sub/Protect stall I had to switch to Mimikyu, the Tornadus that came in had Supersonic Skystrike and OHKOed Mimikyu (3/8ths damage roll) before it could move, and then all that crazy bad luck was largely undone the following turn when Glalie used Protect and got a Speed boost.
 
Last edited:
Is mega Charizard Y viable in singles? If yes, what are some good teammates for it? Does it need checks for electric?
Realistically not. He's too slow and without a reliable way to setup, even with a neutered lead. Its high spatk, while neat, isn't anywhere enough to oneshot certain rock types (expecially Tyranitar and Terrakion) which threaten to 1hko it right away and severely dent almost anything you may want to swap in.
X would be borderline usable with neutered leads since it can abuse Dragon Dance and Roost, basically working similarly to Salamence, but Y would just work in short-term hyperaggressive combos.
 
Could anyone help me assemble a team from these mons for super doubles? Completed super single using mega Scizor, Garchomp and Toxapex.
Greatful for any help, natures, abilities, attacks, evs ivs and items.
192967
192968
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 2)

Top