Battle Tree Discussion and Records

NoCheese

"Jack, you have debauched my sloth!"
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So I have decided to tackle the Battle Tree before SwSh gets here. I want to get to 100 wins in Doubles and at least to the 50 I need in Singles. Maybe, I'll try for the Multi as well, if I can.

My Doubles Team will be the one I beat all Maisons and Trees since XY, Aron/Dusclops/Mega Kanga/Conkeldurr.

However, since I'm trying to learn how to better play Singles 3x3, I'm in doubt of which team to use.
As you are aware, you'll definitely do fine with the Eppie special in Doubles.

As for singles, I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that if you are just trying to get to 50, just running a reasonable mix of Pokemon with a reasonable mix of attacks can get you there. So you should be able to make it.

The bad news is that your suggested team does have some notable weaknesses. First is Mixed-Mence. Draco Meteor is not a good option in the battle tree. That miss chance is just brutal, and can turn easy wins into losses. While in PVP battles, the "likely OHKO, small chance of a miss" moves are a great option, since the occasional loss to accuracy is worth the greater OHKO capability, whenever you are looking to put together a big streak of wins, you want to be minimizing variance. It also seems odd to go Mixed just for Crunch as your one physical-type attack, especially since it provides super-effective coverage against neither Steel-types, nor Faerie types, nor Blissey. Remember that because your STAB attacks are so powerful, a neutral Crunch is often going to be out-performed by a not-very effective STAB, and a Super effective Crunch will be outperformed by a neutral STAB. With coverage moves on big Dragons, you are thus usually looking for a potential 4x delta. Earthquake, for example, is 2x effective on Steel-types, where Outrage is 1/2x effective. Crunch doesn't provide a lot of these. Finally, you pay a very real EV price in going mixed. With just 92 Spa, your primary attacks lose a notable amount of pop. And even if you actually meant to flip your Spa and Att EVs, leaving you with 164 Spa, you are still losing a decent chunk of power just to support a marginal coverage move. I suspect you are better off going with a more traditional physical attacking Salamence, or even Dragonite, which can more easily steal a Dragon Dance or two thanks to Multiscale.

This takes us to Umbreon. Umbreon suffers from what I call "the Milotic problem": it's a reasonable Defensive Pokemon, but it can't take advantage of things it dominates. One of the best ways to win an easy victory is to have a foe that one of your Pokemon beats easily, switch in, set up, and then turn other future threats into cakewalks thanks to being set-up. Umbreon may be able to switch in and beat a decent number of foes, but then what? An unfavorable follow-up comes in, and you have no advantage going forward. This isn't to say that every Pokemon has to be able to set up. A couple of examples: Mega Metagross plays reasonably well on offensive teams with a Dragon-type lead as a weakness covering switch-in that can muscle through a lot of problems. Gliscor doesn't boost, and like Umbreon it can rack up plenty of KOs with Toxic, but Gliscor's big advantage is it is incredible at stalling out moves to allow its teammates to come in and set up freely. Umbreon is, in my mind, mostly a worse Gliscor, with its one advantage being that it doesn't stack a 4x ice-type weaknesses with Flying-type Dragons. (And even this can sometimes be an advantage for Gliscor to the extent that Gliscor can draw and stall out the ice-type move for Salamence).

And this comparison to Gliscor, and Umbreon's inability to either set-up or give its teammates a chance to set up leads us to a related problem: nothing on your team can set up at all. It's not just Umbreon who won't be at any advantage against subsequent Pokemon no matter how badly it dominates the lead; it's your whole team. If the opponent is reasonably bulky, can boost, and especially if it can Rest off Toxic, you may easily find yourself in trouble. Similarly, with no Substitute anywhere on the team, OHKO moves and status afflictions are a real threat. I'd feel much more comfortable if at least something on your squad was designed to set up, and you should consider a Substitute user as well.

All this said, 50 is a pretty modest goal, so extreme optimization is not required, and your team can probably make it. But recognize that it may take several tries for your team to get there, as your proposed squad has some big holes.
 
So I have decided to tackle the Battle Tree before SwSh gets here. I want to get to 100 wins in Doubles and at least to the 50 I need in Singles. Maybe, I'll try for the Multi as well, if I can.

My Doubles Team will be the one I beat all Maisons and Trees since XY, Aron/Dusclops/Mega Kanga/Conkeldurr.

However, since I'm trying to learn how to better play Singles 3x3, I'm in doubt of which team to use. Currently, the one I'm using (just got to 10 wins - nothing, I know) is the one below:

Tapu Lele @Psychium Z
Psychic Surge
Timid (252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP)
-Psychic
-Substitute
-Calm Mind
-Moonblast

No need to get too cute trying to set up, but a lot of things are very predictable in their use of status moves and will let you get a free Sub before you KO with Psychium Z

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Synchronize
Careful (252 HP / 252 SpD / 4 Def)
-Wish
-Protect
-Foul Play
-Toxic


Aegislash @Leftovers
Adamant/Brave/whatever you have 252 HP/252 Atk
-King's Shield
-Swords Dance
-Sacred Sword
-Shadow Sneak

Tapu Lele doesn't need coverage because this can set up on whatever bulky steel types are before 50. Covers Poison/Steel for Lele and Dragon/Ice/Rock/Fairy for Salamence.


Salamence @ Salamencite
Intimidate
Naive (252 Atk / 252 Spe) -
-Substitute
-Dragon Dance
-Double-Edge
-Earthquake

Jolly would be better if you've got one, but you'll be fine for getting the stamp either way.
This is basically the 'clear through the early riff-raff' team I used, although it's been a while since I've had to do that.
 
Hello! First time caller, love the show.

I'm using a team not entirely dissimilar to the one above in singles:
Kartana @ Focus Sash
Beast Boost
Jolly (252 Atk / 252 Spd)
Leaf Blade
Swords Dance
Smart Strike
Sacred Sword


Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Psychic Surge
Timid (252 SpAtk / 252 Spd)
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Shadowball
Moonblast


Salamence @ Salamencite
Intimidate > Aerilate
Jolly (252 Atk / 252 Speed)
Return
Dragon Dance
Substitute
Roost


I usually get around the 50 mark in battle tree, but I struggle with some trick room teams, and if a quick special attacker gets the drop, they can be hard to stop. I'm thinking of swapping Tapu Lele for Tapu Fini for the bulk, which would also increase my resistance to fire, with Kartana carrying that 4x weakness. Kartana does the bulk of the work, usually sweeping teams, whilst Mence usually stalls and DD's up.

Any thoughts?
 
Hello! First time caller, love the show.

I'm using a team not entirely dissimilar to the one above in singles:
Kartana @ Focus Sash
Beast Boost
Jolly (252 Atk / 252 Spd)
Leaf Blade
Swords Dance
Smart Strike
Sacred Sword


Tapu Lele @ Choice Scarf
Psychic Surge
Timid (252 SpAtk / 252 Spd)
Thunderbolt
Psychic
Shadowball
Moonblast


Salamence @ Salamencite
Intimidate > Aerilate
Jolly (252 Atk / 252 Speed)
Return
Dragon Dance
Substitute
Roost


I usually get around the 50 mark in battle tree, but I struggle with some trick room teams, and if a quick special attacker gets the drop, they can be hard to stop. I'm thinking of swapping Tapu Lele for Tapu Fini for the bulk, which would also increase my resistance to fire, with Kartana carrying that 4x weakness. Kartana does the bulk of the work, usually sweeping teams, whilst Mence usually stalls and DD's up.

Any thoughts?
Sure, sounds fine to me. If you're using Tapu Fini as a choiced attacker, I'd recommend having Confide on it somewhere so you have the option of sacrificing it to help guarantee a Salamence set-up. Also consider Sub/DD/Double-Edge/Earthquake on Salamence if you're mostly using it to clean things up after Kartana; the initial power can make a pretty big difference when it comes to revenge killing things (Starmie and Tornadus are a couple fast special attackers where Double-Edge is a guaranteed OHKO while Return isn't), and between that and the extra coverage you don't need as many boosts to sweep.

If you're consistently hitting 50, that's pretty good and there isn't really a way to consistently get 100 or 200 in singles outside of stalling/set-up. Battle 40 marks a noticeable bump in difficulty, so it's closer to the truth to say a streak of 100 contains 6 times, not 2 times, as many 'tough' battles as a streak of 50. The leaderboard lists a team's peak, not average, performance and most of the streaks up to about 400 straight are either the result of one outlier lucky run out of many attempts (whether it's from the same person attempting multiple streaks with the exact same team or hundreds of people independently coming up with extremely similar teams) or someone using a team that's higher on the leaderboard and losing due to misplay.
 
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As you are aware, you'll definitely do fine with the Eppie special in Doubles.

As for singles, I have good news and bad news.

The good news is that if you are just trying to get to 50, just running a reasonable mix of Pokemon with a reasonable mix of attacks can get you there. So you should be able to make it.

The bad news is that your suggested team does have some notable weaknesses. First is Mixed-Mence. Draco Meteor is not a good option in the battle tree. That miss chance is just brutal, and can turn easy wins into losses. While in PVP battles, the "likely OHKO, small chance of a miss" moves are a great option, since the occasional loss to accuracy is worth the greater OHKO capability, whenever you are looking to put together a big streak of wins, you want to be minimizing variance. It also seems odd to go Mixed just for Crunch as your one physical-type attack, especially since it provides super-effective coverage against neither Steel-types, nor Faerie types, nor Blissey. Remember that because your STAB attacks are so powerful, a neutral Crunch is often going to be out-performed by a not-very effective STAB, and a Super effective Crunch will be outperformed by a neutral STAB. With coverage moves on big Dragons, you are thus usually looking for a potential 4x delta. Earthquake, for example, is 2x effective on Steel-types, where Outrage is 1/2x effective. Crunch doesn't provide a lot of these. Finally, you pay a very real EV price in going mixed. With just 92 Spa, your primary attacks lose a notable amount of pop. And even if you actually meant to flip your Spa and Att EVs, leaving you with 164 Spa, you are still losing a decent chunk of power just to support a marginal coverage move. I suspect you are better off going with a more traditional physical attacking Salamence, or even Dragonite, which can more easily steal a Dragon Dance or two thanks to Multiscale.

This takes us to Umbreon. Umbreon suffers from what I call "the Milotic problem": it's a reasonable Defensive Pokemon, but it can't take advantage of things it dominates. One of the best ways to win an easy victory is to have a foe that one of your Pokemon beats easily, switch in, set up, and then turn other future threats into cakewalks thanks to being set-up. Umbreon may be able to switch in and beat a decent number of foes, but then what? An unfavorable follow-up comes in, and you have no advantage going forward. This isn't to say that every Pokemon has to be able to set up. A couple of examples: Mega Metagross plays reasonably well on offensive teams with a Dragon-type lead as a weakness covering switch-in that can muscle through a lot of problems. Gliscor doesn't boost, and like Umbreon it can rack up plenty of KOs with Toxic, but Gliscor's big advantage is it is incredible at stalling out moves to allow its teammates to come in and set up freely. Umbreon is, in my mind, mostly a worse Gliscor, with its one advantage being that it doesn't stack a 4x ice-type weaknesses with Flying-type Dragons. (And even this can sometimes be an advantage for Gliscor to the extent that Gliscor can draw and stall out the ice-type move for Salamence).

And this comparison to Gliscor, and Umbreon's inability to either set-up or give its teammates a chance to set up leads us to a related problem: nothing on your team can set up at all. It's not just Umbreon who won't be at any advantage against subsequent Pokemon no matter how badly it dominates the lead; it's your whole team. If the opponent is reasonably bulky, can boost, and especially if it can Rest off Toxic, you may easily find yourself in trouble. Similarly, with no Substitute anywhere on the team, OHKO moves and status afflictions are a real threat. I'd feel much more comfortable if at least something on your squad was designed to set up, and you should consider a Substitute user as well.

All this said, 50 is a pretty modest goal, so extreme optimization is not required, and your team can probably make it. But recognize that it may take several tries for your team to get there, as your proposed squad has some big holes.
Thank you very much for the analysis. I'll check some options I have. I didn't know the nuances of Battle Tree. Since I can beat doubles without thinking too much, I wasn't thinking really hard on the team, just mixed some ready mon I had. I'll check my Bank to see what I can do. Your tips were mostly appreciated, hope my next attempt at a team is better. I'll keep Lele, maybe get my Dragonite and see the options I have as for the third.
 
A few videos of me playing the team I suggested:
(with Adamant 31 Spe IV Sciz and Azu, btw; the video is awfully blurred because my camera sucks, but hopefully enough can be made out)

Short description:
The first three videos show the various "modes" and tactics of this team; the last one shows me screwing up by going Z-Work Up when I didn't expect Azu to get double-targeted (since Licky3 has Hammer Arm for Incineroar), allowing Dnite4 to pick off Azu with Xspeed (After You was clicked in the hope of Dnite gunning for Kyu instead; Pain Split would probably have been better, since I now suspect that priority move KOs are weighted higher). Note the bizarre Volt Tackle to Ince from Raichu setting up this situation instead of my planned getting in Azu on the post-KO switch from Mimikyu!

Due to my mistake, the battle showcases not only Mega Scizor tanking a -3 Fire Punch, but also an opportunity to switch 1HP Mimikyu into a double-target and survive through two of its immunities, as well as the strength of late-game Fake Out leading to a 2v1 easily resolved by overloading (i.e. queueing two attacks for the same goal when the enemy's actions are unpredictable, but none of them can stop both on that same turn) -- Protecting Scizor would have been a mistake.


The "secret" is that a +2 Mega Scizor plus backline Fake Out allows this team to compensate for the usual weakness of Lv. 1 Mimikyu to side effects. Protect, not TR, is Kyu's most frequent T1 choice (and most important move), and the same goes for T3 -- make good use of the "soft redirect"; you don't need to care as much about the TR clock when you have Fake Out and other useful priority on every team member. That said, Mimikyu really needs After You here, ridding you of the "rope to hang yourself with" in deciding whether to set TR against an unknown backline from speed-erratic rosters (e.g. Janitors).

I've already made the edit above in bold, but don't use Belly Drum -- there's a much more consistent move. Z-Work Up turns Azu into a second M-Sciz (minus Technician) with a different excellent typing atop its general bulk; no less important is that, unlike Fairium Z, Breakneck Blitz can OHKO a Fire-type threat in the dangerous Sun matchup.

Individually obstinate enemies include Drampa3, Zapdos23 and Jellicent (by no means a complete list). Fire/Fighting types are a problem, but particularly in the sun matchup, since Azu can get crippled if it switches directly into Fire attacks, meaning that you need to go to Azu via Ince, which costs time during which the other foe could set up Sunny Day and raise the threat of Solar Beam. Rain is no less dangerous because of the lack of Electric resists often forcing Azu out after it takes a Water move; you should generally not try to save Scizor for the late game there (but do avoid getting it hit collaterally by Surfs) and aim to time Incineroar's entry such that it can take out an Electric, even if it trades down immediately against a Hydro Pump or such. In summary, when you read the names Lea/Sylvia/Variel/Atalanta or see any Rising Star, click your moves carefully.

I lost the first attempt rather disgracefully to Altaria4 / Garchomp4 leads from Wally, in good part due to a misplay; it would have been better to double Protect T1 to scout the sets (DD from Alt3 is not threatening for this team), since Garchomp3/Altaria4 requires an Incineroar switch T2 if the scarfer has locked Fire Fang (in which case Ince is under no threat and can just wake up from Sing; salvage Mimikyu, remove the Altaria, ignore the crippled Garchomp, as Scizor's role at that point is beating Gallade 1v1 or eating an attack from Magnezone), but Scizor should stay in on the Mega or locked EQ. tldr lead Alt4 is terrible to face here and one could argue that it single-handedly renders this team leaderboard-"unviable"; I haven't even mentioned Cotton Guard until now...

I like Repto's proposal and would recommend it over mine if you feel unfamiliar with enemy sets (or like not losing to Altaria4), as there is not much room for that kind of error; losing Scizor to a Fire move T1 or wasting Mimikyu's layers of protection can immediately end your streak, whereas Lum Slowking is resilient to status and Taunt, and frontline Fake Out limits the damage that can be done on what's usually the most important turn for speed-control teams.

e: tagging Fleety91.
Thank you, Coeur7 you're a massive help!
 
So my team has a new structure (for Singles), based on what I currently have at hand.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Jolly Nature
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Jet
- Extreme Speed

Tapu Lele @Psychium Z
Psychic Surge
Timid (252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP)
-Psychic
-ShadowBall
-Energy Ball
-Moonblast

Scizor @ Scizorite
Adamant Nature
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 216 SpD
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Roost

Reached 25 wins easily, with Minimize Muk being my only problem. But since it can't touch Scizor, I can just Swords to Max and then Bullet Punch until I hit xD

I don't remember why this Scizor has this specific EV distribution, it was sitting in my Bank and since it is one of my favorite Megas, I wanted to make it work. And up to now, the combo of Dragon/Fairy/Steel is working wonderfully.

Nonetheless, any tip on improving the sets or EVs is greatly appreciated.
 
So my team has a new structure (for Singles), based on what I currently have at hand.

Dragonite @ Lum Berry
Jolly Nature
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
- Dragon Dance
- Fire Punch
- Aqua Jet
- Extreme Speed

Tapu Lele @Psychium Z
Psychic Surge
Timid (252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 HP)
-Psychic
-ShadowBall
-Energy Ball
-Moonblast

Scizor @ Scizorite
Adamant Nature
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 36 Atk / 4 Def / 216 SpD
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Roost

Reached 25 wins easily, with Minimize Muk being my only problem. But since it can't touch Scizor, I can just Swords to Max and then Bullet Punch until I hit xD

I don't remember why this Scizor has this specific EV distribution, it was sitting in my Bank and since it is one of my favorite Megas, I wanted to make it work. And up to now, the combo of Dragon/Fairy/Steel is working wonderfully.

Nonetheless, any tip on improving the sets or EVs is greatly appreciated.
You don't have a STAB move on Dragonite? Just use Outrage instead of Aqua Jet (the Outrage/Lum Berry synergy is basically the entire reason to use Dragonite in the first place) and whatever Fairy types there are before 50 are just set-up bait for Scizor.
 
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Hi All!

Very new to competitive player here, really just trying to understand the scene before getting in deeper with Sword & Shield. My first attempt is in Battle Tree Singles - I was hoping to get some opinions on the team I chose, as well as movesets - before I even start doing EVs & IVs I want to know if this is the right group of 3 to focus on.


Tapu Koko @ Fairium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
Brave Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn

I have Tapu Koko as my lead, looking to either Electric Surge Thunderbolt it or Z-Move Gleam it - with Thunder Wave into U-Turn as a backup.


Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
IVs: 31 Atk
Brave Nature
- Acrobatics
- Hone Claws
- High Jump Kick
- Sky Attack

Second I have Hawlucha with a Power Herb for the Unburden Boost, then Hone Claws to set up.


Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
Careful Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird

I had no strong feelings towards my third slot, so brought my starter along for Grass & Ghost Coverage.

I am playing on an emulator, so I don't have access to anything outside of Alola.
I do have a Gyrados, Metagross, Aerodactyl, and Glalie on the bench if it's worth bringing one in for a Mega.

So, any thoughts? Anyone I should go and grab to sub in, or any moves that don't make any sense?

Any and all input is appreciated!!
 
Hi All!

Very new to competitive player here, really just trying to understand the scene before getting in deeper with Sword & Shield. My first attempt is in Battle Tree Singles - I was hoping to get some opinions on the team I chose, as well as movesets - before I even start doing EVs & IVs I want to know if this is the right group of 3 to focus on.


Tapu Koko @ Fairium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
Level: 50
Brave Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Thunderbolt
- Thunder Wave
- U-turn

I have Tapu Koko as my lead, looking to either Electric Surge Thunderbolt it or Z-Move Gleam it - with Thunder Wave into U-Turn as a backup.


Hawlucha @ Power Herb
Ability: Unburden
IVs: 31 Atk
Brave Nature
- Acrobatics
- Hone Claws
- High Jump Kick
- Sky Attack

Second I have Hawlucha with a Power Herb for the Unburden Boost, then Hone Claws to set up.


Decidueye @ Leftovers
Ability: Overgrow
Careful Nature
- Spirit Shackle
- Leaf Blade
- Sucker Punch
- Brave Bird

I had no strong feelings towards my third slot, so brought my starter along for Grass & Ghost Coverage.

I am playing on an emulator, so I don't have access to anything outside of Alola.
I do have a Gyrados, Metagross, Aerodactyl, and Glalie on the bench if it's worth bringing one in for a Mega.

So, any thoughts? Anyone I should go and grab to sub in, or any moves that don't make any sense?

Any and all input is appreciated!!
A lot going on here. The main two things to clear up before going into a long explanation you possibly don't even need are:

1. The best strategies for the Battle Tree depend on having preknowledge of the finite roster of Pokemon you can possibly encounter and exploiting the game's AI, so if you're just looking to get into competitive battling you'd be better off messing around on Pokemon Showdown (that's that "play online!" tab at the top of the screen) where you can do lots of battles quickly and change your team on the fly.

2. If you're trying to get a streak of more than 30-40, it's pretty much a prerequisite to have Pokemon with competitive natures/EVs/IVs, but if you're able to scan QR codes there's a rental team database in the thread's first post where you can find a team without having to spend a bunch of time learning to breed/EV train/etc.
 
One short question:
If for example Alakazam faces Salamence and both go Mega on the same turn, which Ability will Alakazam Trace? Will it outspeed, go Mega and trace Intimidate or will it go Mega, then Mence goes Mega and then it traces Aerilate?
 

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One short question:
If for example Alakazam faces Salamence and both go Mega on the same turn, which Ability will Alakazam Trace? Will it outspeed, go Mega and trace Intimidate or will it go Mega, then Mence goes Mega and then it traces Aerilate?
They go mega based on their pre-mega speed stats, so Alakazam will go mega before Salamence, trace Intimidate (or the other ability), then Salamence will go mega.
 
hi! new to the battle tree here and just doubles in general, would like to post my first leaderboard eligible streak

super doubles, ultra moon, 137

battle video: D32W-WWWW-WWXA-YK4U
194245


194246


Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Telepathy
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Moonblast
- Hyper Voice
- Protect

Suicune @ Iapapa Berry
Ability: Pressure
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Icy Wind
- Calm Mind
- Protect

Celesteela @ Figy Berry
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Heavy Slam
- Giga Drain
- Flamethrower
- Wide Guard

Garchomp @ Groundium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Rock Tomb
- Protect

shoutouts to the battle tree discord for some help with the team
 
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Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Just yesterday I beat Red on the standard single mode of vanilla SM's Battle Tree! Nothing impressive, but it felt nice after getting beaten and ragequitting on Round 20 a while back. In addition, while my mons are EV trained, I can't be fucked to breed for optimal natures and IVs, so the sets you see are the hypothetical best versions of what I actually used. I also don't bother with transferring, so I had to stick with the regional dex.



This was my "primary team" during this runthrough. Gengar was absolutely lethal in my run, outspeeding and nuking stuff with its Life Orb STABs. When it faced a foe it couldn't OHKO that could KO it back, I would typically switch into Scizor or Drampa. The former can set up on certain sets with ease while the latter does the same on the special side. C'mon, I couldn't not use my boy on something like this. An interesting bit of trivia is that I needed to rely on trade with a buddy to get all these, including Drampa since I have a Sun cart. Guess the power of friendship really did help out for me in the end.


When it came time to go up against Red, I swapped over to this cheesy little core. He sent out his Snorlax, giving me ample opportunity to set up Z-Purify with Pyukumuku and Pass it on over to Krookodile, who set up to max with Bulk Up and barreled through the remainder of his team with Power Trip. I'll admit that I felt a little too clever for my own good upon creating this thing, but it's probably common knowledge at this point.


Various other mons I interspersed throughout the run to mix things up. Eggy is a surprisingly solid SD user and general attacker, Tapu Koko hits hard and runs quickly, Dragonite was a secondary sweeper on the Krook + Pyuku cheese core in case something went wrong and Vikavolt goes to town with Choice Specs. There's also Araquanid, who's a very competent tank that can sustain itself and smite anything that is unfortunate enough to be weak to Liquidation.

/
/

Other mons I'm currently training/plan to train and may try out should I attempt Super Singles or Doubles. When I stop to think about it I realize there's not much of a reason to include this segment, but hey I like to look at pretty pictures and so do you. Got any suggestions?
 
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So gang, I need some help with my team. It does me well for the most part but I have still never been able to break 50 wins with it (I've hit 47 twice but that's the best I can do). Don't know if I'm missing some obvious holes in my team or just playing badly but if anyone could give me some advice/improvements I'd really appreciate it.

The team is based around a pretty standard D/F/S trio using Aurora Veil to provide some extra longevity.

Ninetales-Alola @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
- Moonblast
- Safeguard

Ninetales always leads this team, using the first move to set up Aurora veil unless an OHKO is available off the bat or Ninetales is at risk of getting hit too hard (usually by steel types). Having hail up means Blizzard is my primary attack and is easily spammable unless actively resisted. Moonblast makes a solid secondary STAB attack. Safeguard isn't always necessary, but preventing Salamence from being paralysed or burned is a nice thing to have available should I need it. Most steel types are a huge risk to Ninetales and she has no way of hitting them easily either. Getting stuck in a 1v1 with a steel type towards the end of a battle has lost me a fair few. Klingklang in particular is one I seem to end up in that situation a lot with.

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Return
- Earthquake

Salamence is the primary offensive core for this team. It exploits the previously set Aurora Veil to set up a Dragon Dance with less chances of getting taken out. After that, it's pretty easy to pull off a sweep with Aerilate-boosted Return or Dragon Claw when Return is resisted. Earthquake covers Ninetales' Steel weakness and Salamence's Electric weakness nicely. Ice-types seem to be 'mence's biggest issue, with Hail allowing Rotom-F to spam Blizzard. This mon is lethal, especially if it can paralyse Salamence. So far I've been lucky enough to avoid this in the Battle Tree, but I've tested it in showdown.

Aegislash @ Steelium Z
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword

Aegislash is a majorly bulky physical attacker. Due to the fact that Aegislash is sent out in Shield Forme, the additional Aurora Veil protection and HP investment lets this one switch in on ANYTHING. Seriously, I’ve tried deliberately sending this in on hits I knew should cause some serious pain and ‘Slash has just soaked them up. Running damage calcs there is not a single OHKO risk out there. That is a really nice thing to have. Iron Head is my primary attack on this one as well as being the base of my Z-move. As so few types resist Steel, it felt logical to go Steelium Z over Ghostium or Fightinium. Shadow Sneak gives priority but due to low base damage can only really be used to clean up in the later stages of the match. Sacred Sword covers Steel-, Normal-, and Ice-Types but rarely gets used. Obligatory King’s Shield is fantastic for crippling physical attackers.

If anyone can suggest some improvements or even just things to look out for, I'd really appreciate the advice.

Cheers!
 
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So gang, I need some help with my team. It does me well for the most part but I have still never been able to break 50 wins with it (I've hit 47 twice but that's the best I can do). Don't know if I'm missing some obvious holes in my team or just playing badly but if anyone could give me some advice/improvements I'd really appreciate it.

The team is based around a pretty standard D/F/S trio using Aurora Veil to provide some extra longevity.

Ninetales-Alola @ Icy Rock
Ability: Snow Warning
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Blizzard
- Aurora Veil
- Moonblast
- Safeguard

Ninetales always leads this team, using the first move to set up Aurora veil unless an OHKO is available off the bat or Ninetales is at risk of getting hit too hard (usually by steel types). Having hail up means Blizzard is my primary attack and is easily spammable unless actively resisted. Moonblast makes a solid secondary STAB attack. Safeguard isn't always necessary, but preventing Salamence from being paralysed or burned is a nice thing to have available should I need it. Most steel types are a huge risk to Ninetales and she has no way of hitting them easily either. Getting stuck in a 1v1 with a steel type towards the end of a battle has lost me a fair few. Klingklang in particular is one I seem to end up in that situation a lot with.

Salamence-Mega @ Salamencite
Ability: Aerilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Return
- Earthquake

Salamence is the primary offensive core for this team. It exploits the previously set Aurora Veil to set up a Dragon Dance with less chances of getting taken out. After that, it's pretty easy to pull off a sweep with Aerilate-boosted Return or Dragon Claw when Return is resisted. Earthquake covers Ninetales' Steel weakness and Salamence's Electric weakness nicely. Ice-types seem to be 'mence's biggest issue, with Hail allowing Rotom-F to spam Blizzard. This mon is lethal, especially if it can paralyse Salamence. So far I've been lucky enough to avoid this in the Battle Tree, but I've tested it in showdown.

Aegislash @ Steelium Z
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Iron Head
- Sacred Sword

Aegislash is a majorly bulky physical attacker. Due to the fact that Aegislash is sent out in Shield Forme, the additional Aurora Veil protection and HP investment lets this one switch in on ANYTHING. Seriously, I’ve tried deliberately sending this in on hits I knew should cause some serious pain and ‘Slash has just soaked them up. Running damage calcs there is not a single OHKO risk out there. That is a really nice thing to have. Iron Head is my primary attack on this one as well as being the base of my Z-move. As so few types resist Steel, it felt logical to go Steelium Z over Ghostium or Fightinium. Shadow Sneak gives priority but due to low base damage can only really be used to clean up in the later stages of the match. Sacred Sword covers Steel-, Normal-, and Ice-Types but rarely gets used in favour of Salamence’s Earthquake. Obligatory King’s Shield is fantastic for crippling physical attackers.

If anyone can suggest some improvements or even just things to look out for, I'd really appreciate the advice.
Cheers!
Substitute instead of Dragon Claw, Leftovers and Swords Dance instead of Iron Head should get you there pretty easily. Also you should have Light Clay instead of Icy Rock since you want to be boosting the duration of the Aurora Veil (which will still be up after hail runs out) and not hail damage to your other two Pokemon, which I'm sure is going a long way toward cutting down their longevity. You're almost certainly also misplaying by trying to make Ninetales do damage despite its bad stats rather than set up Aurora Veil as often as possible, but those should be enough major moveset improvements to squeak out a run of 50+ if you're already close.
 
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Since I'd love to be able to use this team in the battle spot as well, I'd love some more tips on how better to use Ninetales.
In case you haven't checked it out, I definitely suggest reading Ninetales' BSS analysis here. Not all of these points can be applied to Tree (Sheer Cold is probably not a great idea for example), but it does offer great insight on its role and how to best use it. Encore could probably make sense in Tree too, since it would allow you to switch to one of your sweepers more freely (Disable is another option to that effect).
 
In case you haven't checked it out, I definitely suggest reading Ninetales' BSS analysis here. Not all of these points can be applied to Tree (Sheer Cold is probably not a great idea for example), but it does offer great insight on its role and how to best use it. Encore could probably make sense in Tree too, since it would allow you to switch to one of your sweepers more freely (Disable is another option to that effect).
The BSS analysis is actually where I got the base idea from - I'd never tried Aurora Veil before seeing that and quickly got super into it. Encore is one that I considered but ended up swapping for Safeguard as in this case it was more important to keep Salamence safe from status. I'm gonna have a look over it, try swapping Moonblast for encore and see how that works. Focus on utility but keep Blizzard for a bit of offence
 
Substitute instead of Dragon Claw, Leftovers and Swords Dance instead of Iron Head should get you there pretty easily. Also you should have Light Clay instead of Icy Rock since you want to be boosting the duration of the Aurora Veil (which will still be up after hail runs out) and not hail damage to your other two Pokemon, which I'm sure is going a long way toward cutting down their longevity. You're almost certainly also misplaying by trying to make Ninetales do damage despite its bad stats rather than set up Aurora Veil as often as possible, but those should be enough major moveset improvements to squeak out a run of 50+ if you're already close.
Oh, I thought Aurora Veil only stayed active provided the hail was up. Definitely makes more sense to switch to light clay. Is that leftovers on Aegislash there?

Would it make more sense to drop Sacred Sword instead of Iron Head?

I realise trying to make Ninetales an offensive presence is a bit sketchy but I often find myself stuck in a corner if I leave a mon without some way of dealing consistent damage. Assuming I want to keep Blizzard as a way of dealing damage, I guess I could reinvest EVs into HP to give a bit more bulk, swap out Moonblast for something. Haze would be useful now I think of it, but I'm hesitant to lose my only Fairy attack.

I'll definitely be putting Substitute on Mence, but I think I'll need some more practice actually using it in battles. I suck at using Substitute.

Since I'd love to be able to use this team in the battle spot as well, I'd love some more tips on how better to use Ninetales.

Thanks for the advice!
 
Oh, I thought Aurora Veil only stayed active provided the hail was up. Definitely makes more sense to switch to light clay. Is that leftovers on Aegislash there?

Would it make more sense to drop Sacred Sword instead of Iron Head?

I realise trying to make Ninetales an offensive presence is a bit sketchy but I often find myself stuck in a corner if I leave a mon without some way of dealing consistent damage. Assuming I want to keep Blizzard as a way of dealing damage, I guess I could reinvest EVs into HP to give a bit more bulk, swap out Moonblast for something. Haze would be useful now I think of it, but I'm hesitant to lose my only Fairy attack.

I'll definitely be putting Substitute on Mence, but I think I'll need some more practice actually using it in battles. I suck at using Substitute.

Since I'd love to be able to use this team in the battle spot as well, I'd love some more tips on how better to use Ninetales.

Thanks for the advice!
No, Sacred Sword is super effective against almost everything that resists Shadow Sneak and makes defense/evasion boosters easier to deal with. Aegislash is slow anyways so it's most likely gonna have to take a hit against anything that can take a boosted Shadow Sneak, and anything that would survive Sacred Sword but not Iron Head would go down to Shadow Sneak the following turn. But that's just my opinion, and if you want to try something different the fastest way to figure out whether it works or not would be to just jump in and try it yourself.

There are a lot of other tweaks to make the party more optimal, but they'd require you to have more experience or look up which sets you may be up against and would more likely just be confusing at this point. The main ones would be Swords Dance + Leftovers on Aegislash so it can get a lot of sweeps rather than just KO one thing and be automatically forced to use King's Shield or switch the following turn and Light Clay instead of Icy Rock to give you the effect you're actually going for (honestly Focus Sash would be just as good if not better because the other two don't need that many free turns to sweep most of the time, but the main thing there is that Icy Rock is totally counterproductive).

If you don't want to think as much, you could probably get by with using Facade as a 3rd attacking move on Salamence in the event it gets statused. Dragon Claw is a noob trap of a move in that it's weak enough to not get any notable guaranteed OHKOs that Return doesn't, so even if something like Facade has limited application or you aren't experienced with using Substitute, at least the absence of Dragon Claw would nudge you towards playing better by forcing you to switch if you're not boosted enough against an opposing dragon rather than being like "OoOoO super effective must press!" But really Substitute isn't that hard to use, and even if you don't want to look up movesets it's usually obvious enough from experience which Pokemon are likely to use status moves or which ones won't be able to do >25% to Salamence under Aurora Veil.

Other than that there's no big secret to using Ninetales. If it uses Aurora Veil and dies right afterwards it did its job; anything else it can do to debuff the opponent beforehand is just gravy (the entire reason Sheer Cold is an option on Battle Spot Ninetales is because the best response to it other than changing the weather or outspeeding and KOing to prevent Aurora Veil from going up in the first place is to waste its turns with a defensive Pokemon that won't KO Ninetales immediately). In Battle Spot you have the option of not bringing it if you see opposing weather whereas in Battle Tree you just have to let your sweepers carry it in the matchups where it's dead weight, which Salamence and Aegislash can do well enough.
 
So I've been playing with a new team that I think works pretty well (at least in the sub-50 battle range where I eternally live). Nothing groundbreaking with the Steel/Dragon/Fairy but it's been working better than I expected.

Kartana, Hasty, Beast Boost (I know Jolly would be better)
Focus Sash
Leaf Blade
Sacred Sword
Knock Off
Smart Strike

Goodra, Calm, Sap Sipper
Leftovers
Dragon Pulse
Confide
Rest
Sludge Wave

Mimikyu, Adamant, Disguise
Fairium Z
Shadow Sneak
Play Rough
Protect
Curse

Kill what I can to beast boost with Kartana, which is a lot. If I can 1HKO the first thing it's almost always a win for me.

Goodra with Confide can wall a lot of special attackers, even ones with ice or fairy moves. Handles most of the fire types pretty easily for Kartana.

If something is trying to set up I generally send out Mimikyu to use Curse and stall with Disguise and Protect. AI doesn't seem to realize it's a bad idea to run Defense Curl (or other setup moves) over and over after I've used Curse. Shadow Sneak is mostly to pick off other Focus Sash users, or just chip damage when needed.

Sludge Wave on Goodra is filler, but it does hit fairies and occasionally picks up a poisoning during drawn out battles. Not sure what else to use there. Fairium Z on Mimikyu mostly makes me feel better about having Play Rough which will always miss at the worst time.

Any giant flaws I'm not seeing? Only on battle #30ish or something right now with this team. Most days I can only squeeze in a few battles, so it's a slow learning curve.
 

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