Battle Tree Discussion and Records

Miyyani said:
Hey, I was wondering if Smogon had anywhere I could get a good Battle Tree QR Code Rental Team at?
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Far from the best version of this team but it contains a few staples used by a lot of people on the Leaderboard. This team has Dragonite, M-Salamence, Aegislash, Lele, Mimiyku, and a Blaziken.

https://3ds.pokemon-gl.com/rentalteam/BT-474B-A161

You'd generally want to use Dragonite/Aegislash/Lele for Singles.
Dragonite is the main mon here. Lum has good synergy with Outrage and provides a free turn against status, allowing you to set up a Dragon Dance or KO with a move. Multiscale is pretty good for taking hits and the moves provide nice coverage.
Aegislash covers a lot of Dragonite's weaknesses (and vice-versa). This is a Special Attacker (mostly) with damage in mind (has a Weakness Policy, so if you get hit by a super effective attack then you're at +2 ATK/SPA).
Lele has got a Psychium-Z and that's basically a nuke. If Lele is out, you want to be using Psychic with the Surge to be dealing a lot of damage.

You can use Salamence instead of Dragonite. Salamence is a bit more powerful but more limited, only having two attacking moves and no way of dealing with status. It's a MegaMence set, though.
You can also use Mimikyu instead of Lele. Basically gets a free turn due to disguise. Shadow Claw and Play Rough offer a lot of options, and turning Play Rough into Twinkle Tackle can really help you out of a tight spot if you need him.
Blaziken is in there just because I was experimenting and cannot put both my Aegislash sets into one team (the other is a pure physical attacker).

Not claiming this rental team is perfect, just that it's got a pretty commonly used core in this thread in Dragonite-Aegislash.
 
Ojo46 said:
Hey guys, in Singles I've been struggling with handling Mega Kangaskhan and especially Mega Blaziken. Anyone know if good counters?
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You'd probably need to let us know what is your team then. Personally, I don't view the Mega-Kang set in the Tree as a threat, but that's due to my team setup (even though I haven't gotten the Stamps yet due to some bad luck and misplays -.-")

For everyone else on the thread, I think our target should be aiming to burst past the 500k mark within say, 2-3 days? We're already almost at the first target LOL
 
lawwwwl the global mission is already at 227,755. Dunno what the stretch goal is, or if there even is one, but I found that amusing especially since many of us were worried that they'd take our success from the last challenge and grossly inflate their expectations again.

I've contributed 210 BP myself thus far.
 
Apparently its already 550,946. Damn.

Makes me wonder if there was an unforseen way to make that illegitimate, or if they just did not see that coming.
 
I experimented with a Trick Room Gravity team and got to the 48th battle. Lost to a critical hit Meteor Mash from Mega Metagross.

I'll edit the post to add videos when Nintendo stops giving me the error code 006-0112.

EDIT: And here are the videos.

The loss: AAMG-WWWW-WWW5-PWX3

And a battle where the Gravity team works: 2DEW-WWWW-WWW5-PW44

I didn't Fake Out Azelf on the first turn of the second video because I thought a potential Taunt from Tornadus was more dangerous.



Primarina @ Water Z Crystal
Quiet, 252 HP, 252 Special Attack, 6 Special Defense

Hydro Pump
Moonblast
Energy Ball
Protect

Hydro Pump works with Gravity, and makes for a stronger Z-move than Scald. The rest should be self-explanatory.


Dusclops @ Eviolite
Relaxed, 252 HP, 120 Defense, 136 Special Defense
Frisk


Gravity
Trick Room
Protect
Night Shade

-Gravity and Frisk were interesting options for a Trick Room setter. Frisk is great for scouting movesets, and Dusclops doesn't have the questionable typing of Trevenant and Gourgeist. It's also bulkier than Oranguru, while still being immune to non-Scrappy Fake Outs. Night Shade breaks Focus Sashes and Sturdy, and softens up targets for the other Pokemon. Gravity was more useful to me than Will-o-Wisp. Who doesn't want to see the AI kill their own flyers with Earthquake? Bright Powder and Double Team are less of a problem with Gravity too.


Gigalith @ Assault Vest
Brave, 228 HP, 180 Attack, 92 Defense
Sand Stream

Rock Slide
Earthquake
Heavy Slam
Stone Edge

-This is a set I got from the VGC analyses. It sounds good on paper, and can take a special hit or two, but still suffers from the "Gamefreak thinks Rock is a good defensive type" syndrome. I thought of Gravity when I picked this Pokemon, mainly because Rock attacks have unreliable accuracy. Gravity Earthquake is good for some Levitating Electric types such as Thundurus or Rotom, though my Gigalith wishes it were a Ground type. I may swap this Pokemon out.

Hariyama @ Flame Orb
Brave, 252 Attack, 128 Defense, 128 Special Defense
Guts

Fake Out
Heavy Slam
Knock Off
Close Combat

Second verse, same as the first. You need some form of control to set up Trick Room and prevent Taunt, sleep, etc. Hariyama does this and can also be a sweeper.
 
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Question for you guys:

Does a max speed Greninja (max IV and EV, timid nature) outspeed Red's Zard X after one Dragon Dance? Can't find where to do the calculations.

Thanks!

EDIT: I think it does not. Ok, next part of my question:

My team that I got to 66 with beat Red just fine last time, but that was when he had Zard Y. My team is Greninja, Mega Mence, Aegislash.

So, if he leads with Zard, do I:

1) YOLO surf with Ninja and risk a Zard X Dragon Dance?

2) Switch right into Salamence, if Zard Y I mega evolve and Return, if Zard X I switch to Aegislash (assuming X Dragon Danced), take the hit, then King's Shield the Flare Blitz. At this point switch back to Mence and Mega evolve and EQ?

Is there a more optimal line of play? Last time he led with Lapras, I Grass Knotted, then Surfed Zard Y and cleaned up with Mence.
 
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Coeur7 said:
No. (Ninja hits 191 speed, Zard hits >240 after the DD)

http://turskain.github.io/index.html, linked in the first post (Battle Tree Calculator)
On that note:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard-Mega-X: 136-162 (88.8 - 105.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO

EDIT: I'd go with option 2), except this will happen:

252 Atk Salamence-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 86-102 (56.2 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Even Adamant Mega-Mence cannot safely OHKO Zard-X after a DD (<50% chance).

You will need to switch to Aegi twice and King's Shield it down further.

EDIT2: I was somewhat wrong, as turns out. A possible move (90% odds of winning), if you want to preserve Aegi's health as much as possible, is Dragon Dance. (Though King's Shielding Zard down to -6 may be the best move still, as you'll increase the chance of Greninja breaking through if Mence goes down to a crit; -2 Dragon Rush still 2hkoes the frog.)

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Salamence-Mega Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Charizard-Mega-X: 154-183 (100.6 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

You're taking this on the second switch to Mence (after Aegi shields the Blitz):

-3 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 32-38 (18.8 - 22.3%) -- possible 5HKO

Even if Zard dances as you dance, outspeeding you:

-2 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Dragon Rush vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 90-108 (52.9 - 63.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

you're safe barring crits. Then again, 10% is not negligible. But since Zard outspeeds you anyway before you can set up with Mence, this risk persists on any path you take.

If it dances on the switch to Mence, though, bring in Aegi again.

Note that -6 Dragon Rush still always breaks your sub, unless it misses (assuming little investment in bulk for Mence; maybe your spread is different. If Mence has lots of HP, go the Aegi to -6 route and sub.)

-6 252 Atk Tough Claws Charizard-Mega-X Dragon Rush vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Salamence-Mega: 48-56 (23.7 - 27.7%) -- 68.7% chance to 4HKO
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Holy cow this info is great. Thank you so much for this!
 
venomous72 said:
Holy cow this info is great. Thank you so much for this!
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This overlooks Dragon Rush's additional flinch chance. What you originally said as the 2nd option is better than the alternatives and why I had a post a page or two back detailing why Greninja isn't that good anymore. Leading with it forces you into lots of tough situations like that once you start to run into trainers who use the set 4s and Megas.
 
Posting two streaks! one is for super singles streak of 160 using entrainment durant team, the other is a multi battle streak of 68 wins! I know The rules page states that the minimum multi battle is leaning towards 60, so I hope 68 wins will be enough!

Videos:
battle 100: NA6W-WWWW-WWW5-MMSP
the loss: 32NG-WWWW-WWW5-E88X

Very basic Durant/Cloyster/Garchomp team, loss was my own fault, misplay followed by 2 unfortunate misses from brightpowder, I really think I could've overcome that if I had switched to Garchomp sooner.

Durant @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Truant
- Entrainment
- X-scissor
- iron head
- superpower

Cloyster @ focus sash
Ability: Skill Link
- Protect
- Shell Smash
- Surf
- Icicle Spear

Garchomp @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Rough Skin
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang -> Protect
- Poison jab

Really the only thing new here is running Devastating Drake instead of either choice band or lum berry. I think I wouldn't have lost my last battle with choice band, but I think Dragonium Z saved me in other moments, and it was also a lot of fun!

Videos:
battle 50: 5JUW-WWWW-WWW5-GAR3
the loss: 5PNG-WWWW-WWW5-GAQY
Greninja @ Focus Sash (Mine)
Ability: Protean
Nature: Timid
- Mat Block
- Scald
- Ice Beam
- Grass Knot

Metagross @ megastone (AI)
Ability: Clear Body -> Tough Claws
- Meteor Mash
- Zen Headbutt
- Bullet Punch
- Brick Break

Salamence @ Megastone (Mine)
Ability: Intimidate -> Aerilate
Nature: Timid
- Hyper Voice
- Dragon Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Protect

Zapdos @ Bright Powder (AI)
Ability: Pressure
- Charge Beam
- Ancient Power
- Double Team
- Roost

So back in the ORAS maison days, I got my 50 wins using greninja and Kangakhan paired with Steven Stone's Mega Metagross. Once I scouted Dancer Jo of all people, I realized I could use something very similar in the battle tree. Only difference is Metagross has Brick break over hammer arm. After the Kangaskhan nerf, I thought I'd mix it up with Salamence which did great for me in doubles, the spread damage of hyper voice is incredibly useful, and with timid nature it outspeeds most opponents. This strategy is still very much reliant on luck, and it is maddening how often Metagross really should bullet punch for the easy KO and goes for Zen headbutt or Meteor Mash and misses. I was worried about Zapdos when I saw double team but for this run she just... never really used it. 90% of the time Zapdos was needed it went with charge beam(really wish it had been thunderbolt). Double team was helpful twice in combination with pressure as it PP stalled a lucario with stone edge, but typically just one or two charge beams were needed.
 
Coeur7 said:
GG Unit: My mistake about the flinch chance, but since Zard-X inevitably outspeeds Mence after dancing t1 (which we've been assuming), why do you think EQ would be better than DD after the second switch to Mence (Zard at -3)? With DD, unless Zard-X also DDs, you outspeed the next turn for the guaranteed OHKO; regardless of whether it DDs, you have one flinch/crit chance to contend with. With EQ, you deal 88% max unboosted, and you have two Dragon Rush flinch/crit chances to deal with.
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You EQ, switch to Aegislash, and finish with Shadow Sneak. This also serves as a good example of why you'd use Double-Edge instead of Return if Salamence doesn't have Substitute.
 
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GG Unit said:
You EQ, switch to Aegislash, and finish with Shadow Sneak. This also serves as a good example of why you'd use Double-Edge instead of Return if Salamence doesn't have Substitute.
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I know Ninja isn't ideal anymore, but he has been a favorite of mine for a while (cliche'd I know) and I am trying to get a 100 streak with him. When I lost in the 60's before it was for sure a play mistake, the team felt solid enough to get to 100.

So in your opinion, switch to Mence, switch to Aegislash - > King's Shield, switch to Mence and Mega Evolve and EQ.

Then switch to Slash and Shadow Sneak? Will a Shadow Sneak finish of a Zard X after a non-boosted EQ from Mega Mence?

Or do I EQ with Mence, take the -3 Dragon Rush, switch to Slash and King's Shield - > Sword Dance - > Shadow Sneak?
 
venomous72 said:
I know Ninja isn't ideal anymore, but he has been a favorite of mine for a while (cliche'd I know) and I am trying to get a 100 streak with him. When I lost in the 60's before it was for sure a play mistake, the team felt solid enough to get to 100.

So in your opinion, switch to Mence, switch to Aegislash - > King's Shield, switch to Mence and Mega Evolve and EQ.

Then switch to Slash and Shadow Sneak? Will a Shadow Sneak finish of a Zard X after a non-boosted EQ from Mega Mence?

Or do I EQ with Mence, take the -3 Dragon Rush, switch to Slash and King's Shield - > Sword Dance - > Shadow Sneak?
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I would attack as Mega Salamence whenever it is in and Charizard has +0 Attack or lower. If it gets a crit or flinches you're more or less screwed either way, so might as well get it over with as soon as possible rather than giving it extra turns to Dragon Dance by getting too cute with switching and King's Shield.
 
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Oops, it has a guaranteed KO at +0, so it should say "at -1 Attack or lower." So yeah, having a lead without Intimidate that gives Zard X a free turn is not good.
 
GG Unit said:
Oops, it has a guaranteed KO at +0, so it should say "at -1 Attack or lower." So yeah, having a lead without Intimidate that gives Zard X a free turn is not good.
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Yeah my other option is to just switch my team order for that one battle with a Salamence lead and throw Choice Specs on Greninja for a revenge kill....
 
Thrilled to see that we're crushing the target on this Battle Tree global mission. Hopefully it will be a strong signal to Game Freak that there is in fact a substantial segment of the player base that really cares about the battle facilities, and it's worth taking the time to develop and improve such content! So if you dream of another battle frontier, rack up those BP!

(Note that while I'd love a full-fledged frontier, and do hope players can show Game Freak that there's interest, this is not a complaint about the Tree. More challenge and variation than the maison, Z-moves and megas to plan around...definitely a big step forward this generation, even if triples and rotations got axed.)
 
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