BDSP Battle Tower Discussion & Records

So I finally got the black trainer card, which is essentially the 5-star max you can get in this game. Was bored and took a break from masters singles, so I decided to get the 100 in classic singles. Took about 4 hours of my life and was a bit easier to deal with than Masters.

Team I used:

Yanmega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Giga Drain

Straightforward, you click Bug Buzz and it either OHKO or at minimum 2HKO every in the tower. Not much needs to be said (funny enough, it OHKOed Palmer's Rhyperior from full LOL - twice)

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

All out attacker, just click the appropriate moves, and hit as hard as you can.

Scizor (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance

Same one I used for masters. BP is there if you need priority. SD accordingly and roost to avoid potential 2hkos and crits.

Once I got closer to palmer's second team (Regigigas, Cresselia, and Heatran), I subbed out both scizor and yanmega. You can change teams per round but only before playing the 5th match. Plan accordingly and make any changes if you feel like your team needs adjustments. Once you enter the 5th match, you can't take break (i.e. switch teams and you have to play it out the rest of the round)

Tyranitar GIF - Tyranitar - Discover & Share GIFs

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

First sub of the team. This pretty much destroys Palmer's second team as it hard walls that psychic fat fuck, OHKOs heatran with EQ and can easy setup on regigigas. Sand is very useful in break sashes, something that can get annoying in the later round.

Rotom Wash GIF - Rotom Wash Washing Machine - Discover & Share GIFs

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 108 SpA / 72 SpD / 76 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

You honestly don't need protect, I would have probably used t-wave to disrupt more. This can potentially solo Palmer's first team (Milotic, Dragonite, and Rhyperior). Very useful against Milotic since this snake ass mon is incredibly bulky and has access to the bane of status moves that is Hypnosis. Burn rhyperior and dragonite and you win. Volt Switch > Thunderbolt go that you can safely bring in mons that can deal with others. This is your special attack sponge as well, can can deal with water types that may see this team struggle against.

I livestreamed my 100-win run, links are there if you wanna see how it went:
Part 1-
Part 2 -
 
Last edited:
So I finally got the black trainer card, which is essentially the 5-star max you can get in this game. Was bored and took a break from masters singles, so I decided to get the 100 in classic singles. Took about 4 hours of my life and was a bit easier to deal with than Masters.

Team I used:

Yanmega @ Choice Specs
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- U-turn
- Giga Drain

Straightforward, you click Bug Buzz and it either OHKO or at minimum 2HKO every in the tower. Not much needs to be said (funny enough, it OHKOed Palmer's Rhyperior from full LOL - twice)

Latios (M) @ Soul Dew
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Energy Ball
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam

All out attacker, just click the appropriate moves, and hit as hard as you can.

Scizor (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Technician
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Roost
- X-Scissor
- Swords Dance

Same one I used for masters. BP is there if you need priority. SD accordingly and roost to avoid potential 2hkos and crits.

Once I got closer to palmer's second team (Regigigas, Cresselia, and Heatran), I subbed out both scizor and yanmega. You can change teams per round but only before playing the 5th match. Plan accordingly and make any changes if you feel like your team needs adjustments. Once you enter the 5th match, you can't take break (i.e. switch teams and you have to play it out the rest of the round)

Tyranitar GIF - Tyranitar - Discover & Share GIFs

Tyranitar @ Lum Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stone Edge
- Crunch
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance

First sub of the team. This pretty much destroys Palmer's second team as it hard walls that psychic fat fuck, OHKOs heatran with EQ and can easy setup on regigigas. Sand is very useful in break sashes, something that can get annoying in the later round.

Rotom Wash GIF - Rotom Wash Washing Machine - Discover & Share GIFs

Rotom-Wash @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 HP / 108 SpA / 72 SpD / 76 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Protect

You honestly don't need protect, I would have probably used t-wave to disrupt more. This can potentially solo Palmer's first team (Milotic, Dragonite, and Rhyperior). Very useful against Milotic since this snake ass mon is incredibly bulky and has access to the bane of status moves that is Hypnosis. Burn rhyperior and dragonite and you win. Volt Switch > Thunderbolt go that you can safely bring in mons that can deal with others. This is your special attack sponge as well, can can deal with water types that may see this team struggle against.

I livestreamed by 100-win run, links are there if you wanna see how it went:
Part 1-
Part 2 -
Soul dew just for psychic? Why not life orb?
 
I just completed rank 10 in the masters tier. I went with a similar looking team to the common Garchomp, Suicune, Heatran team that's been posted here, but I really wanted to use Infernape:

Infernape @ Focus Sash
Ability: Blaze
Level: 50
EVs: 196 Atk / 60 Def / 252 Spe
Naïve Nature
- Flamethrower
- Fake Out
- Close Combat
- U-turn

This was my lead. The usual strategy is to click Fake Out turn 1 against anything that doesn't have inner focus. From here, if you can KO the first slot with Flamethrower or Close Combat, do so, otherwise U-turn into Suicune or Garchomp. The only time to hard switch is if the first pokemon outruns Infernape and you need to keep the Focus Sash intact for another threat on the teamUsually, it's important to not sacrifice Infernape early. Being able to clean up a Focus Sash user or survive one hit at the end of a match saved me a few times. Interestingly, it seems like the AI will usually switch to something that resists Fake Out if they have a resist on turn 2. However, there's not much to be done about this because clicking U-turn in these situations is usually safe anyways because Garchomp will happily KO most steel and rock types.

This EV spread is actually imperfect. (The 60 EVs in defense were designed for a very specific scenario I ran into with one of Maylene's teams so that it always lives a Close Combat from her Lucario after Stealth Rock damage. But it turns out that she basically never clicks Fake Out on the first turn, so that scenario basically never happens). These should probably be thrown into special attack to give a better chance of KOing lead Heracross after a fake out and OHKOing 252HP, 0 SpDef Tangrowth from full or just thrown into attack. Focus Sash is a must in the masters tier but you can get away with the Life Orb you find on Stark Mountain in the end game until you have 15BP to buy the item.

Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake

Pretty standard Garchomp set. Iron Head is for exactly Togekiss and nothing else. The key to beating some tough matchups is to bait an electric move with Suicune to get Garchomp in for free. One particular example is Zapdos-11 (from Volkner) where the way to beat it is Fake Out, U-turn into Suicune on the Hurricane, hard switch into Garchomp on the electric attack. Swords Dance + Outrage for the kill. A +2 outrage will not kill Zapdos from full, but it will KO it with the Fake Out and U-turn chip. Maximum speed IVs and EVs on Garchomp is imperative so that you can outrun Modest Scarf Abomasnow (among other things).

Suicune @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus (Pressure would be preferred but currently unreleased)
Level: 50
EVs: 232 HP / 252 Def / 24 Spe
IVs: 31/8/31/31/28/31 (got this after 5 SRs!!)
Bold Nature
- Calm Mind
- Rest
- Scald
- Ice Beam

A bulky set up pokemon is great in the battle tower because the AI has horrible strategy against set up (will let you get to +6 and won't switch while you Rest). The EV spread might be improvable by moving some Def into SpAtk to guarantee KO on Multiscale Dragonite after Infernape U-turns on it. But I haven't run the calc to see how much investment would be needed. Speed investment is just to speed creep some mons like Cresselia and opposing Suicune. Speaking of opposing Suicune, Calm Mind wars are common (Suicune-3, Suicune-4, and Suicune-7. The key to winning in these scenarios is leaving your opponent at max HP so that they can't/won't rest and you can abuse Rest to stall out their PP. Once they are out of PP for Scald and Ice Beam, you will be at +6 and they will switch. When they bring their Suicune back in at the end of the match, it will be fodder for Garchomp.

This team struggles with any Gengar that has Icy Wind, some Alakazam variants, and bulky Cresselia variants. However, I only lost one match where I did not find a "winning" strategy after the fact (as well as one loss to Brightpowder hax)
 
200.jpg



Never have I thought from the beginning that no one else would really get the 200 winstreaks before me ?
I honestly don't think of myself as a huge expert in Pokémon. I'm definitely not the best team builder nor the best pilot but I gotta tell you, I had the patience and patience was key indeed.

I remember when Lifecoach (A professional HearthStone player) was being made fun of for playing his games veeeeery slooooowly all the time. And one time I was watching him play, he ended up becoming the first player in the season to reach legend rank, thus he was rank 1 in Europe despite his slow games and time consumed on each turn. The lesson ?
QUALITY > QUANTITY

Slow and steady won me the race in the end. For almost every game, I was checking the database of battle tower sets and trainers so thank you so much for the people who made them and the calculator. I wouldn't have won a fraction of 200 without these tools.


THE WORLD ★ @ Sitrus Berry
Relaxed
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
IVs: 22 SpA / 0 Spe
- Gravity
- Trick Room
- Brick Break
- Night Shade



Fixalas @ Berry Juice
Level 1
Brave
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
- Attract
- Rock Slide
- Endeavor
- Protect


Brdenoos B6a @ Wiki Berry
Brave
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Def
IVs: 18 SpA / 0 Spe
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Self-Destruct
- Crunch


D'3yyyyyyj ! @ Flame Orb
Brave
Ability: Guts
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Def / 112 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Fake Out

Ideal game:
Turn 1: Trick Room & Protect
Turn 2: Endeavor & Night Shade (Aron lives from Sturdy and heals from Berry Juice)
Turn 3: Endeavor & Night Shade the same side (Aron lives from Sturdy)
And now the 3rd Pokémon will not be summoned because it belongs to the other trainer, so it's always a 2v1 on the field.

Dusknoir:
I did not make the EVs for anything specific. First I wanted just full HP and euqal Def/Sp.Def but I think I moved some for Def later to maintain a higher sum. I could be mistaken but Frisk is theoretically useless because it will not help discover anything the database can't show. Se, Pressure is better but Frisk is for lazy people who don't wanna check the database sometimes. I was using Rock Slide instead of Brick Break earlier, but having an assuring attack vs Normal types is better and also doing AOE dmg is pretty useless because the main goal is to kill 2 pokémons from 1 side. Often times against (Brighter Power / Double Team) I would take a turn to use Gravity & Protect which boosts accuracy, and then do the Endeavor Night Shade combo again.

Aron:
I thought of having Rock Slide for a chance to flinch or finish 1 HP enemies, which doesn't come often of course. Maybe a 100% accuracy move would be better. Attract is not that great either, but it came in handy vs Garchomp's Rough Skin. I was thinking of Rain Dance to kill the snow vs Abomasnow-2&4 teams, but I can imagine it would lead to the same outcome if you just Protect turn 1. Endeavor turn 1 works in hail only when Aron tanks 1 hit and heals. Also I had the though of having Gluttony with Belly Drum, but then I figured Snorlax's main job is to be a quick solution to when things go wrong early, so I just wanna hit with him right away.

Hariyama: (Thanks to Zero for recommending this to me)
Before this, I was using Cresselia CM Moonlight Psychic Moonblast and she was doing great almost all the times. Later, I was thinking of Machamp, haven't tried him yet but I liked Hariayama's numbers more. Hariyama solves some problems in panic situations instead of being something that is just slow setup like Cresselia. What I mean by that is I aim to kill stuff fast on one side to get to the 2v1 and then everything is at ease.
EVs: Max Atk and ½ Def & ½ Sp.Def. @ 223 HP to have maximum HP/Def bulk with minimum Burn dmg taken since Burn does 1/16 max HP (rounding down).

Snowlax:
HP to get maximum (1/3) heal from Wiki Berry, rest is Atk & Def. I spent alot of time trying to catch a Munchlax in underground with Self-Destruct, yet I was always too afraid to use it xD.

I have also thought alot about having another Trick Room user, but I wonder "Fights eaither finish quickly or things can go bad early" early enough that Dimensions are still twisted, and that's when I'm in desperate need for my buddies Brdenoos/D'3yj. Alot of the times I lose a pokémon and the dimensions return to normal, but at that time the battle is pretty much already won and there's no need really for Trick Room to help the Bulky boys finish the game.

I have been in a situation once where both Hariyama and Snorlax were in love with a female, so I was gonna swap one of their genders for sure but they both have a low % chance to breed a female >.<
I humbly accept any criticism / suggestions to proving this team, so please feel free to share your ideas.
The streak is #ONGOING at 200 wins, but I'll definitely be slowing down / taking a break and getting back to my life as a student/musician. *sigh* I can finally rest now zzzzzzzz
Thank you Zero for providing me with pokémons
Thanks to the guy who traded me a Hariyama and the other who evolved my Dusclops (RIP Eviolite)


Discord: Altaria#0150
Thank you so much <3
 
Last edited:
View attachment 390050


Never have I thought from the beginning that no one else would really get the 200 winstreaks before me ?
I honestly don't think of myself as a huge expert in Pokémon. I'm definitely not the best team builder nor the best pilot but I gotta tell you, I had the patience and patience was key indeed.

I remember when Lifecoach (A professional HearthStone player) was being made fun of for playing his games veeeeery slooooowly all the time. And one time I was watching him play, he ended up becoming the first player in the season to reach legend rank, thus he was rank 1 in Europe despite his slow games and time consumed on each turn. The lesson ?
QUALITY > QUANTITY

Slow and steady won me the race in the end. For almost every game, I was checking the database of battle tower sets and trainers so thank you so much for the people who made them and the calculator. I wouldn't have won a fraction of 200 without these tools.


THE WORLD ★ @ Sitrus Berry
Relaxed
Ability: Frisk
EVs: 252 HP / 124 Def / 132 SpD
IVs: 22 SpA / 0 Spe
- Gravity
- Trick Room
- Brick Break
- Night Shade



Fixalas @ Berry Juice
Brave
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk
- Attract
- Rock Slide
- Endeavor
- Protect


Brdenoos B6a @ Wiki Berry
Brave
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 12 HP / 252 Atk / 244 Def
IVs: 18 SpA / 0 Spe
- Double-Edge
- Earthquake
- Self-Destruct
- Crunch


D'3yyyyyyj ! @ Flame Orb
Brave
Ability: Guts
EVs: 28 HP / 252 Atk / 116 Def / 112 SpD
IVs: 0 Spe
- Knock Off
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Fake Out

Ideal game:
Turn 1: Trick Room & Protect
Turn 2: Endeavor & Night Shade (Aron lives from Sturdy and heals from Berry Juice)
Turn 3: Endeavor & Night Shade the same side (Aron lives from Sturdy)
And now the 3rd Pokémon will not be summoned because it belongs to the other trainer, so it's always a 2v1 on the field.

Dusknoir:
I did not make the EVs for anything specific. First I wanted just full HP and euqal Def/Sp.Def but I think I moved some for Def later to maintain a higher sum. I could be mistaken but Frisk is theoretically useless because it will not help discover anything the database can't show. Se, Pressure is better but Frisk is for lazy people who don't wanna check the database sometimes. I was using Rock Slide instead of Brick Break earlier, but having an assuring attack vs Normal types is better and also doing AOE dmg is pretty useless because the main goal is to kill 2 pokémons from 1 side. Often times against (Brighter Power / Double Team) I would take a turn to use Gravity & Protect which boosts accuracy, and then do the Endeavor Night Shade combo again.

Aron:
I thought of having Rock Slide for a chance to flinch or finish 1 HP enemies, which doesn't come often of course. Maybe a 100% accuracy move would be better. Attract is not that great either, but it came in handy vs Garchomp's Rough Skin. I was thinking of Rain Dance to kill the snow vs Abomasnow-2&4 teams, but I can imagine it would lead to the same outcome if you just Protect turn 1. Endeavor turn 1 works in hail only when Aron tanks 1 hit and heals. Also I had the though of having Gluttony with Belly Drum, but then I figured Snorlax's main job is to be a quick solution to when things go wrong early, so I just wanna hit with him right away.

Hariyama: (Thanks to Zero for recommending this to me)
Before this, I was using Cresselia CM Moonlight Psychic Moonblast and she was doing great almost all the times. Later, I was thinking of Machamp, haven't tried him yet but I liked Hariayama's numbers more. Hariyama solves some problems in panic situations instead of being something that is just slow setup like Cresselia. What I mean by that is I aim to kill stuff fast on one side to get to the 2v1 and then everything is at ease.
EVs: Max Atk and ½ Def & ½ Sp.Def. @ 223 HP to have maximum HP/Def bulk with minimum Burn dmg taken since Burn does 1/16 max HP (rounding down).

Snowlax:
HP to get maximum (1/3) heal from Wiki Berry, rest is Atk & Def. I spent alot of time trying to catch a Munchlax in underground with Self-Destruct, yet I was always too afraid to use it xD.

I have also thought alot about having another Trick Room user, but I wonder "Fights eaither finish quickly or things can go bad early" early enough that Dimensions are still twisted, and that's when I'm in desperate need for my buddies Brdenoos/D'3yj. Alot of the times I lose a pokémon and the dimensions return to normal, but at that time the battle is pretty much already won and there's no need really for Trick Room to help the Bulky boys finish the game.

I have been in a situation once where both Hariyama and Snorlax were in love with a female, so I was gonna swap one of their genders for sure but they both have a low % chance to breed a female >.<
I humbly accept any criticism / suggestions to proving this team, so please feel free to share your ideas.
The streak is #ONGOING at 200 wins, but I'll definitely be slowing down / taking a break and getting back to my life as a student/musician. *sigh* I can finally rest now zzzzzzzz
Thank you Zero for providing me with pokémons
Thanks to the guy who traded me a Hariyama and the other who evolved my Dusclops (RIP Eviolite)


Discord: Altaria#0150
Thank you so much <3
Nice job dude. I can’t wait to see the singles 200 as well.
 
My current progress in doubles is 70 wins in a row still ongoing, but I took a break to try and get to rank 10 in singles. This team was based on my platinum facilities team but with a moody pokemon subbed for Articuno (seems much worse because of no pressure). Unlike my doubles team I took several losses before finally beating rank 10, but all but 1 of them were because I was using bad natures/ivs/moves. I actually still don't have rough skin Garchomp and am still using Sand Veil but everything else is has been corrected. I would have won even in that loss because I flamethrowered scizor and he lived with the amount that rough skin would've killed him by.

Cresselia @ Wide Lens
Ability: Levitate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Moonblast
- Thunder Wave
- Flash
- Moonlight

I need to use wide lens because of twave now, I only missed it a single time during my climb so it's pretty worth. I'm evd to outspeed jolly breloom because there's 1 specific set where if it spores then subs I just hard lose and there's nothing I can do (that was one of the losses during my climb when I was using max def bold). Moonblast is a great upgrade over psychic though, no immunities and has a 30% special drop which is really nice so it's not all nerfs from platinum.

Bibarel @ Leftovers
Ability: Moody
Level: 50
EVs: 116 HP / 140 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 SpA
- Double-Edge
- Waterfall
- Substitute
- Protect

I tried several moves over double-edge and waterfall but I think these are necessary. If you give up one of them for taunt you could get hard walled with either stab you pick, and if I use aqua jet over waterfall I can lose to some iron defense steel types even if I start at +6 vs them. Besides it can flinch which is really nice. I might consider body slam over double-edge if I had access to it, but there's lots of times where double-edge will just like barely 2hko something at +2/+3 so it seems too good to pass up. I'm almost positive Glalie is better but I just wanted to try this guy lol. At least there's no Jellicent in this game and Shedinja in masters so the coverage is actually pretty nice.

Garchomp @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Dragon Claw
- Flamethrower

I thought about a lot of different things I could replace this with, something to beat gliscor/scizor and random ohko stuff and there probably is some better highly specific pokemon, but as far as the best pure high bst muscle pokemon you can use Garchomp is probably best. He's clearly much worse than he was in platinum facilities but there's still a lot of games where he'll bail you out when everything goes wrong just by outraging everything.

I think doubles is way easier so I likely will try to get my 100 streak there rather than singles, my biggest streak with this team was only 28 wins lol but I think it could've been much higher had I started out with all my pokemon with their proper stats and moves.
 
Last edited:
Ugh, unaware clefable completely destroys the drapion team. I see literally no way to beat it since nothing on it can do enough damage to bring it down through moonlights without boosts. The only chance is to PP stall out all of its moves until it struggles to death. If it gets off a few calm minds blissey doesn’t even heal through moonblast and then one crit and it’s over. I lost my streak as the unaware clef swept my entire team. Seismic toss/waterfall/knock off don’t do enough damage if you can’t boost. I guess the only way to win would be to get lucky and flinch hax the clef to death. Gonna try out something new.
 
Ugh, unaware clefable completely destroys the drapion team. I see literally no way to beat it since nothing on it can do enough damage to bring it down through moonlights without boosts. The only chance is to PP stall out all of its moves until it struggles to death. If it gets off a few calm minds blissey doesn’t even heal through moonblast and then one crit and it’s over. I lost my streak as the unaware clef swept my entire team. Seismic toss/waterfall/knock off don’t do enough damage if you can’t boost. I guess the only way to win would be to get lucky and flinch hax the clef to death. Gonna try out something new.
Yeah you would immediately switch to Blissey and PP stall it (or if you can help it, have Blissey out to begin with since you can see if the team will have Unaware Clefable). It's not 'smart' enough to CM up to +6 before attacking and Substitute protects from crits, so it's not too bad to stall it out (every time Blissey is at 100% behind a Sub you should be throwing off a Seismic Toss to possibly force an eventual Moonlight that will buy you more turns to heal); your mistake was likely wasting time trying to damage it with Drapion or something.
 
Last edited:
Yeah you would immediately switch to Blissey and PP stall it (or if you can help it, have Blissey out to begin with since you can see if the team will have Unaware Clefable). It's not 'smart' enough to CM up to +6 before attacking and Substitute protects from crits, so it's not too bad to stall it out (every time Blissey is at 100% behind a Sub you should be throwing off a Seismic Toss to possibly force an eventual Moonlight that will buy you more turns to heal); your mistake was likely wasting time trying to damage it with Drapion or something.
Yeah I’m not optimal with this team at all yet and I don’t even have PP ups since I never used menu glitches. I found out too late that it was unaware when it started hitting me every time through minimize. I also couldn’t roar it because the AI sent it out last. If I had max PP ups and knew from the start that it would be coming out last I would have played differently. The team is pretty much an auto win against anything else anyways so good job making the team. I’m just gonna try and make a team now that goes a bit quicker even if it’s risky because it took me forever to get to 100 wins in a row and it made me really sad when I got walled by that clef.
 
Can any of you boys trade me a custap berry? I’m new to this website and don’t know how trading goes down.
 
Does the AI still gladly attack into a Destiny Bond? Back in DPPt, there were teams built around taking out one opponent as quickly as possible and then just spamming Destiny Bond to bring down the other two.
 
Congrats Ralem for your 200 Streak in Master Class doubles (Great Nicknames btw! :D). Slow and steady wins the race, that's true, but for those of us who are impatient:

I managed a 100 streak on classic mode and finished Rank 10 on Master Class with just 1 loss with this team. I do not have the patience for longer battles, so this team is hyper offensive and built for finishing battles as soon as possible. Still requires some thinking to pull off though.


Zapdos @ Choice Specs
Ability: Static
Level: 100
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4Spe
Modest Nature
- Discharge
- Thunderbolt
- U-Turn
- Roost

Basic strategy is to lead with Zapdos and Garchomp and just click Discharge and Earthquake. Thunderbolt is there if you really need to knock out one Pokémon or to plan ahead if Garchomp goes down, so you don't hurt your teammates. U-Turn is situational and only used if Zapdos has no other way to deal damage, and you need somehow to get chip damage or break focus sash. Roost is never used, just had it there in case there was a stall battle with struggle or if the opponent was burned or poisoned. 252 HP is to survive any hit, bar some Critical Hits. Maybe investing in Speed would have been better, but the bulkiness has helped me in countless battles.



Garchomp @ Focus Sash
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 100
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Outrage
- Iron Head
- Protect

Partner lead with Zapdos, Earthquake and Discharge everything at sight. If an opponent is Dragon, Ice or Fairy, Protect first turn to bait a wasted attack and to make sure to knock out in the second turn. In the second turn you might want to switch to Togekiss if slower than a dragon like a Latios or Dragon Dance Flygon. Outrage is for late game if Garchomp is switched out and Iron Head OHKOs Gardevoir and is helpful against other Pokémon like Regice.



Togekiss @ Scope Lens
Ability: Super Luck
Level: 100
EVs: 116 HP / 52 Def / 156 SpA / 4 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
- Dazzling Gleam
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Follow Me

This Togekiss is fast and is looking to land some Critical Hits. It's also bulky enough to survive super effective hard hits and stick around. Aura Sphere is a must and helped me a lot against Double Team users, Ice-Types, Steel and Rock Types. Follow Me is situational but needed to protect your partner. Dazzling Gleam and Air Slash are obvious must haves.



Heatran @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Flash Fire
Level: 100
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Heat Wave
- Flamethrower
- Earth Power
- Flash Cannon

I actually don't like Heatran, but it's needed here to cover for my team's glaring weaknesses. This Heatran is built to outspeed pretty much everything and clean up. Be careful though, one Ground type move and this thing is gone. Earthquake is a pretty common move to and Togekiss cannot redirect it.

Well that's it, you guys helped a lot throughout the years so I wanted to give something back, even if it's a tiny contribution. I hope this helps some of you. Good luck and have fun!
 
Last edited:


Important note: This team is not designed to withstand serious h4x, and it has a few really bad match ups, one of them being, to my understanding, mathematically impossible to win. The team fares well against most of the Battle Tower but you need to strategize the order you send out the mons and do some "unnecesary" sacrifices to keep the 100% win condition ratio. It's a pretty standard team apart from that:



Starmie @ Focus Sash
Ability: Natural Cure
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: X Atk
- Surf
- Ice Beam
- Psychic
- Thunderbolt



Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- X-Scissor



Garchomp @ Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Substitute
- Earthquake
- Outrage


Notes: Attack IVs on Starmie are random. 0 is optimal but it's truly irrelevant. You aren't dying with starmie to Foul Play and you are not dying either to Swagger + confusion hax, because you have two mons to fight against that. Don't waste your time.

Scizor should have 4 EVs on Spe., enough to reach 86 Spe. and be able to outspeed Umbreon and go for the KO with X-Scissor should Garchomp fail (Garchomp deals a ton of damage to that Umbreon anyways with a combination of its high attack + rough skin). Otherwise, you speed tie with him. It isn't really a problem since Subs SD Garchomp should be able (I was able all the time) to beat it with a combination of Subs spamming + Lum Berry, but to each their own.

General function of the team:

I started using Modest Starmie with xbelt, but it wasn't good enough. Here is the thing. Most of the frail shit that dies with Modest SE Belt Boosted attacks, also die with Timid SE attacks, and the shit that doesn't, either OHKOs you back or has enough bulk to stall you anyways. Timid > Modest always, and Focus Sash lead > XBelt, for sure. I found it was also important be able to outspeed latitwins, specially Latios, and have a second check to them (Garchomp, Scizor and Starmie, the 3 are checks to the latitwins depending on what set they are running).

I start with Starmie and try to get a quick 3v2 scenario by killing their first mon and, if possible, damaging the second one. Beware, against some NPCs, this could be your demise. Don't always let your Starmie die just because you already have the advantage, because your 1 HP Starmie could very well be your only wincon. Slowly analize their team and determine if Starmie should be sacked or not before doing anything. ¿Do you want an example? Ok:


Heatran-11FIR/STLFocus SashMagma Storm5Flash Cannon10Earth Power10Dragon Pulse10ModestFlash Fire0/4/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3112916685126200126
Rhyperior-9GRD/RCKSitrus BerryEarthquake10Rock Blast10Ice Punch15Horn Drill5AdamantSolid Rock252/252/4/0/0/031/31/31/0/31/31602222111515475
Dragonite-10DRG/FLYLum BerryDragon Dance24Outrage12Earthquake12Thunder Punch18JollyMultiscale4/252/0/0/0/25231/31/31/0/31/3114516718611594120

You start with Starmie and Heatran gets 2HKO by Surf. You Surf Heatran and Heatran Earth Power you back, then you KO him. Palmer send out Dragonite. Since this is lum nite, it will go for the TPunch, but switching into Garchomp accomplishes nothing unless you are going for the pivoting into Scizor, wich is not a good play because it could trigger Dragon Dance and then you are fucked, so with Heatran ded, you Ice Beam nite, break his multiscale and let Starmie die. Now, sending Garchomp could lose you the entire match (Outrage forces you into Outrage first, then rhyperior kills you with ice punch, avoids the KO with BP and COULD end your streak with Horn Drill), so Scizor is your best bet. You send out Scizor, Nite cant do shit to you (EQ does good damage but not enough), but since you think you've already won, because you have a priority bulky technician BP user + a fucking Garchomp in the back, you inmediatly BP the nite. You kill the Nite, Palmer sends out Rhyperior, BP does shit to it, Rhyperior kills you with Horn Drill and then kills garchomp, since unboosted EQ + unboosted BP is never a KO on that Rhyperior. Conclusion: always go for the Swords Dance against Dragonite in this particular match. Dont forget this, because after many matches against Palmer you'll go nonbrain mode and it could end your career faster than you can think.


Latias-5DRG/PSYLeftoversCalm Mind32Recover16Stored Power16Mystical Fire16TimidLevitate252/0/0/4/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3117818776110131150
Ninetales-6FIRChoice SpecsFlamethrower24Solar Beam16Psyshock16Shadow Ball24TimidDrought4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/311671497295199120
Togekiss-5FAI/FLYScope LensAir Slash24Flamethrower24Dazzling Gleam16Thunder Wave32TimidSuper Luck4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3114516149115172135


Latias-5DRG/PSYLeftoversCalm Mind32Recover16Stored Power16Mystical Fire16TimidLevitate252/0/0/4/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3117818776110131150
Latios-6DRG/PSYChoice SpecsDraco Meteor8Surf24Thunderbolt24Psychic16TimidLevitate4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3117815685100273130
Togekiss-5FAI/FLYScope LensAir Slash24Flamethrower24Dazzling Gleam16Thunder Wave32TimidSuper Luck4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3114516149115172135

Be very fucking careful with both MUs right here. Never, ever, let your Starmie turn 1 against this Latias.

252+ SpA Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 78-92 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (100.00% chance to 3HKO after accuracy)

It's never a 2HKO unless you crit and it can (and will) begin to boost in your face with a combination of CM + Recover + Mystical Fire. Mystical Fire is annoying as shit, and in my experience you don't know what the AI will go for. Sometimes it goes for Calm Mind, sometimes it goes for Mystical Fire. In both cases, Starmie loses the 1v1 and Scizor is not an option. Here's exactly how you play this one:

Turn 1 you go into Garchomp. It doesn't matter what Latias go for, be it Calm Mind or Mystical Fire. This Latias outspeeds you but can't do anything to you. Be careful if it goes Calm Mind, tho, because +1+1 Store Power does damage. Never boost in front of it. Never. Both versions of the team have Togekiss and the AI will always go for it against garchomp. Turn 2 use Outrage and cleanly kill the Latias. Then Togekiss will OHKO you back, then you go into Starmie and go for Ice Beam. Togekiss will always go for Thunder Wave here, you switch into Scizor, tank the Dazzling Gleam, KO back the Togekiss with Bullet Punch, and:

If it sents Latios, these are the damages

Draco Meteor 57.1 - 67.4%
Surf 53.1 - 62.8%
Thunderbolt 53.1 - 62.8%
Psychic 39.4 - 46.8%

Dazzling Gleam from Togekiss does this max on a Critical Hit

Dazzling Gleam 33.7 - 39.4%

After taking 39.4% damage, you recover 6.25%, leaving you at around 67% health. None of those hits should ever kill you, BUT, a second critical could. Since Starmie has 100% health and its running Sash, go for the BP. Should Scizor survive, go for another BP. It doesn't matter if Sash on Starmie is broken or not. BP into Ice Beam always KOs latios. Always.

If it sents Ninetales after BPing the Togekiss, go for another BP. BP into Surf into Surf is always a 3HKO even in Sun. This is a MU you cannot lose, UNLESS:

252 SpA Choice Specs Ninetales Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Starmie in Sun on a critical hit: 109-129 (80.1 - 94.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (100.00% chance to 2HKO after accuracy)

It's extremely improbable, but Ninetales needs a Critical max roll NVE flamethrower on Starmie + BURN on the same turn to KO you. Remember that this Ninetales is Specs, so it'll always go for the sun boosted flamethrower since your last mon was Scizor.

Now, remember when I said to you there is a MU that is mathematically impossible to win?


Pelipper-2WTR/FLYChoice ScarfHydro Pump8Ice Beam16Hurricane16U-turn32TimidDrizzle4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/311921364912014790
Kingdra-3WTR/DRGLife OrbHydro Pump8Dragon Pulse16Hurricane16Ice Beam16ModestSwift Swim4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3113715190115161115
Scizor-4BUG/STLSitrus BerryBullet Punch48Thief40Roost16Swords Dance32AdamantTechnician236/124/148/0/0/031/31/31/0/31/318517518213954100
Team #5 - Singles Master - Ace Trainer (F) Natalia
SetTypeItemMove 1PPMove 2Move 3Move 4NatureAbilityEV – (H/A/B/C/D/S) – IVSpeedHPAtkDefSpASpD
Pelipper-3WTR/FLYDamp RockHydro Pump8Ice Beam16Hurricane16U-turn32BoldDrizzle252/0/252/4/0/031/0/31/31/31/31851674916711690
Relicanth-2WTR/RCKFigy BerryWaterfall24Head Smash8Earthquake16Body Press16AdamantSwift Swim4/252/0/0/0/25231/31/31/0/31/311071761561504585
Zapdos-6ELC/FLYLife OrbThunder16Hurricane16Heat Wave16Volt Switch32ModestStatic4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/3115216685105194110

First version of this team is a nightmare and hard counters this team.

First. Should you go for Thunderbolt with Starmie, these scenarios could happen:

- Pelipper-2 goes for Hurricane, does a ton of damage to you, you dont get confused and pull out, you OHKO Pelipper-2 back with T-bolt, she switches into Kingdra-3. You lose. Automatically. You've lost the battle. Starmie gets cleaned by Kingdra at that range. Scizor gets clean OHKO by Hydro Pump and Garchomp desintegrates with Ice Beam.

- Pelipper-2 goes for Hurricane, does a ton of damage to you, you get confused and you die without even killing the Pelipper.

- Pelipper-2 goes for U-turn, does a ton of damage to you, it goes into OR Scizor, and it doesn't matter to which it goes to, since this means Pelipper is still alive and will setup rain latter, so Kingdra will demolish your team again.

For you to win this one, there's no other way but to stall rain. Everything falls apart if Kingdra is sent to the battlefield with rain setted.

1. Do Surf. If you attack first, you are fighting version 2 of the team, which is much more maneajable. If Pelipper does Hurricane, you are unfortunately against version 1. Surf will do good damage to Pelipper, but you won't KO it. Let Starmie die. You've now sucessfully stalled 2 out of 5 turns of rain. 3 turns remain. Send out Scizor.


252 SpA Pelipper Hurricane vs. 128 HP / 128 SpD Scizor: 79-94 (49 - 58.3%) -- 63.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (63.30% chance to 2HKO after accuracy)
(79, 81, 81, 82, 84, 84, 85, 85, 87, 88, 88, 90, 91, 91, 93, 94)


Hurricane still does a ton of damage, but with the bulk on SpD. + Lefties + Roost you can probably stall it for a bit. Cross your fingers so you don't get haxed with confusion, there's no other way around this. Try to stall/do as much damage as possible with Scizor as you can, +2 bp into outrage always ko and unboosted bp into outrage kos almost everything too (but its not 100%). Don't you dare switch scizor into garchomp after the rain has ended, garchomp needs to be at 100% to tank. Let Scizor die after you've succesfully damaged the Pelipper to the point garchomp can clean, or, if luck is on your side (hurricane misses, you dont get confused, etc), get to +6 and proceed to do as much damage as you can to all their team. Btw, if you have Thief, put Thief instead of X-Scissor. It achieves the sames KOs on what matters the most and its better against 1v1 against opposing Scizors like this one. Also, this Scizor runs 85 Spe., so this is another great example of why 86 Spe. is benefitial to you, so you avoid the tie in an hypothetical scizor vs scizor scenario and can go for the Thief against him to do a jackton of damage. But the worst case scenario is scizor dying against Pelipper after doing a bit of prior damage with Bullet Punch. Then Garchomp is sent out, rain is gone, you get Hurricaned, it does a ton of damage to you and you KO the Pelipper back with Outrage.

At this point, I don't know what the AI would go for, but after taking a Hurricane, at 50% remaining health, you can't win with Garchomp against Scizor 4. This team is extremely nasty, and the only one that I've encountered in the tower this destructive against the team.

Oh, I forgot

 
Last edited:
Hey all! It's a (not) new user here - I made another account so my username could match with my PS! username lol. I used to be Call_Me_Charlie, and I was pretty active in the Gen 6 Battle Maison - one of my teams was a Triples rain + Water Spout team. I've tried to revive it here in Doubles, but the various restrictions have made it more difficult, and I'm not sure how to optimize it yet. Here's what I've got:

:sm/murkrow:
Murkrow @ Lum Berry
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tailwind
- Rain Dance
- Night Shade
- Taunt

With the loss of Tornadus/Thundurus/Talonflame, I have to rely on Murkrow as my only priority Tailwind setter, and without Eviolite to boot! Murkrow also is my Rain Dance setter since Triple Battles are absent (please bring them back @GF or Ilca). While I do have Pelipper in the backline, I like to have rain come in on Turn 2 or later - this way it can replace any initial weather that's set up Turn 1, and it also beats slower Pokemon with weather abilities (I can't slow down my Pelipper if I want to lead with it as a Tailwind setter).

Murkrow generally clicks Tailwind, then either Rain Dance if needed immediately or Night Shade if I need to chip. Taunt was only used once, but it was againist Fantina's Trick Room Dusknoir so it was pretty useful. I've debated Foul Play vs. Night Shade, with Foul Play dealing more damage and hitting Normal-types but Night Shade being consistent. In general, I have no problem if Murkrow dies immediately after setting up Tailwind, and in some cases, I prefer it that way since it can sometimes feel like dead weight when it's in too long.

:sm/blastoise:
Blastoise @ Mystic Water
Ability: Rain Dish
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Dark Pulse
- Protect

Blastoise is my Water Spout sweeper, and it's truly fallen from grace with the loss of Mega Evolutions. Without that, Blastoise sits at a measly base 85 Special Attack, which can be underwhelming a lot of the time. The rain feels much more necessary than it did in Gen 6 since the power boost is more needed. Generally Blastoise clicks Protect on Turn 1 and starts Water Spout sweeping on Turn 2, with Ice Beam and Dark Pulse as weak coverage moves. (I forgot that Mega Launcher boosted Dark Pulse in Gen 6, and without that Ability Blastoise feels even weaker.)

On rare occasions, when I know a standard Water Spout will kill both enemies, I'll use it immediately rather than Protecting since speed changes now take place in between turns, meaning that after Murkrow throws out a priority Tailwind, Blastoise is nearly guaranteed to move next. But this is...pretty rare, and I'll talk about weaknesses and replacement thoughts later on.

:sm/pelipper:
Pelipper @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hurricane
- Tailwind
- Protect

I've enlisted Pelipper as my rain setter and secondary Tailwind setter, and there is...not much to say here. I've seen the other teams in this forum use Brine on Pelipper, and I'm starting to consider it as well, although there have been times when Scald killed opponents when they were just above half health and I'm not sure if Brine could've done the same. I honestly might replace Tailwind with Brine, since Pelipper rarely takes the opportunity to set it up.

:sm/jolteon:
Jolteon @ Magnet
Ability: Volt Absorb
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Thunder
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Shadow Ball

Another staple I've seen on the rain teams so far, with my Jolteon being nearly identical. Electric coverage is very much needed against opposing bulky Water-types. Sometimes, after Murkrow dies, I'll send in Jolteon and have it Volt Switch out to Pelipper so that I can do Electric damage AND set rain before Blastoise attacks on Turn 2. Overall Jolteon is a good but not excellent Pokemon in this team.


I've only played up to 28 Doubles Battles in Rank 4, but I wanted to get some teambuilding/theorymonning advice from y'all before I continue. There are a lot of weak spots to consider.

- Items: I'm not sure if any of these are the optimal item at all. I was lucky enough to get some Hidden Ability Pokemon through trades, but I started off this team without BP and had to make do. Lum Berry has probably proven to be the most useful item here. What might I replace the items with?
- Murkrow: How can I make Murkrow feel less like dead weight? Should I invest in one of its attacking stats, or maybe consider other status moves that would be useful?
- Blastoise: How can I play more effectively with Blastoise? I chose it as the only Water Spout user who can outspeed every opponent in the Tower, but I've had my eye on Octillery. It was actually my original choice, but Octillery only hits 212 Speed under Tailwind with a Timid Nature, and with that nature can only reach 157 Special Attack compared to Blastoise's 150. It could have Moody (less desirable in Doubles imo) or Sniper paired with Scope Lens, but that still doesn't feel as great.
- Jolteon: What else can I do with Jolteon, or what other Pokemon can I use here? I feel like Thunder is just so desirable for coverage and strength, but I also did think about using a physical attacker here to deal with specially bulky Pokemon.
- General team construction: What holes are there that I should consider patching up? I thought about using a sun team instead, with Typhlosion easily reaching the Speed benchmark while outdamaging Blastoise, and Chlorophyll users providing coverage. However, this opens up different challenges, such as the fact that having Ninetales doesn't offer anything new compared to Typhlosion, and that I would be locked into using Murkrow.

Let me know what advice you guys have, thanks!
 

DaWoblefet

Demonstrably so
is a Battle Simulator Administratoris a Community Leaderis a Programmeris a Community Contributoris a Top Researcheris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Social Media Contributor Alumnus
PS Admin
Got a 154 in doubles before losing to the Ace Trainer Herman & Ace Trainer Natalia on not getting a 13/16 damage roll with Night Shade + Dynamic Punch against their Scizor. I streamed my run on my Twitch channel over multiple days if you're interested (if you're reading in the future, Twitch may have deleted the VODs).
1638930102540.png


I used a similar team to Adamant Zoroark. Check out their summary for more general details.

:xy/dusknoir: | :xy/smeargle: | :xy/machamp: | :xy/tyranitar:
Dusknoir (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Frisk
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 148 Def / 108 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Night Shade
- Brick Break
- Gravity
- Trick Room

Smeargle (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Own Tempo
Level: 1
- Endeavor
- Fake Out
- Feint
- Spiky Shield

Tyranitar (M) @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Crunch
- Rock Slide
- Assurance
- Protect

Machamp (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: No Guard
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Dynamic Punch
- Knock Off
- Ice Punch
- Bullet Punch
  • All male so Vileplume-2 can't Attract your lead (it may be better to have Smeargle be female to bait the Attract on that slot turn 1, haven't theorymonned it all out). There's also a Froslass and Umbreon lead with Attract, but I don't know the genders of either (though we can assume Froslass is female).
    • Although not on SadisticMystic's sheet, genders are fixed and don't change.
  • Dusknoir lives Gengar-4's Shadow Ball, which never came up; it may be better to add more physical bulk to survive Heracross Earthquake + Dragonite Outrage in the Palmer/rival fight (currently a 66/256 [~26%] chance to KO; 252 HP / 228 Def+ lets you survive it 100% but you give up a lot of special bulk. I was doing Fake Out into Dragonite turn 1 with Smeargle anyway, so maybe only relevant with Aron.
  • Assurance on Tyranitar is great; you often find yourself double targeting in Trick Room with Dusknoir + Trick Room sweeper, and that makes Assurance all the more strong. There's several situations where the extra BP is nice.
  • Chople Berry was chosen to be able to tank random Focus Blast / Brick Break that are everywhere in the Battle Tower. BlackGlasses gives you better rolls vs a few Pokemon, but I like the extra insurance of tanking the hit.
  • Ice Punch and Bullet Punch feel great on Machamp. Ice Punch nukes Garchomp, which Smeargle often doesn't want to touch due to Rough Skin, and Bullet Punch is great for finishing off mons at low HP, especially out of Trick Room when you've lost the Speed advantage.
  • Feint on Smeargle was chosen as a filler to occasionally break Protect, Focus Sash, or chip for Assurance if I was ever pressured by a priority move faster than me. I think Destiny Bond is awful; you'd rarely ever want to click it over Endeavor. I think Spore would be a viable 3rd moveslot to consider, as you occasionally end up fighting a Ghost-type with Smeargle + Dusknoir, so Spore + switch is very safe.

Which FEAR mon is best?

:xy/smeargle:
The clear advantage of Smeargle is access to Fake Out. In theory, an Aron + Dusknoir lead has no answer to lead Taunt or lead OHKO move just destroying Dusknoir, which turns the odds of winning significantly against you. Since you immediately know your opponent's whole team in Master Rank Doubles just based on their player names, you can still Spiky Shield most of the time, which is going to be better, and then Fake Out vs a threatening lead that can block Trick Room. This lets you set up Trick Room much more consistently, no doubt about it.

The problem with Smeargle lies chiefly in the momentum afterwards. Regardless of whether you use Fake Out, because you go down to 1 HP a lot earlier, you are much less likely to finish games with Smeargle + Dusknoir, instead relying on your back Pokemon. Your average game will have Smeargle using Endeavor twice. This is especially bad vs priority. For example, vs a priority lead, you can only Endeavor one Pokemon, because they will either priority you this turn + priority you the next, or priority you this turn + other mon kills you this turn. The first situation is a huge momentum suck, since you have to waste a turn of Trick Room letting Smeargle die, and the second situation can potentially force more damage on Dusknoir.

In general, Smeargle gives you a more consistent Trick Room setter, but a much weaker Trick Room attacker.

:xy/aron:

While Aron lacks Fake Out, its biggest advantage is being able to tank 2 attacks with Berry Juice. This can be really impactful, because it allows you to often take 2 KOs in Trick Room without fainting, and taking 2 KOs means the opponent is down to only one side remaining and so you can just double target the remaining two Pokemon for the win. In general, Aron makes it so your back Pokemon are much less necessary. It also has the bonus of being immune to Sand damage.

Aron's filler moves are notably much worse. I'm convinced it has no good moves. Attract is a meme because you'd only ever click it on Ghosts, Swagger is funny but bad, Iron Head lets you potentially roll a flinch and combos for Assurance but it's bad, Toxic would be bad even if it got it because you never need the FEAR mon to actually take a kill itself, it's just got nothing.

Aron makes it so if your opponent leads a Fissure , Sheer Cold, or Taunt mon (or Torkoal + Bellossom double targeting Dusknoir) you risk losing the game outright to the opponent happening to pick a bad move for you turn 1.

:xy/kangaskhan:

An interesting third option to consider is level 8 Kangaskhan. Kangaskhan notably gets Scrappy, which means its Endeavor can hit Ghost-types! Unfortunately, you can't inherit level-up moves on Kangaskhan while breeding, so you're stuck with a level 8 Kangaskhan if you want access to Fake Out like Smeargle does, and you do. One downside you might consider is that you have a lot more HP. However, keep in mind you pretty much never need the FEAR mon to take the KO itself; you're double targeting with an ally. 34 HP is high, but it's still definitely enough for Night Shade to finish the job. You might think it's relevant for combo attacks into Sitrus Berry. Smeargle or Aron's Endeavor will set up a follow-up KO at 12 HP on any Sitrus Berry Pokemon with 155 HP or less; Kangaskhan's HP is so large that no Pokemon in Master Rank Doubles would be KOed. There's not a whole lot of these, though; as far as I can tell, only Alakazam-2, Dusknoir-3, Hitmontop-5, Hitmontop-6, and Magmortar-5 meet this condition. All other Pokemon with Sitrus Berry don't ever appear in Master Rank Doubles at all. But Hitmontop-5, Hitmontop-6, and Magmortar-5 can only be fought as Rank bosses, which is irrelevant to someone grinding at Master Rank 10. Dusknoir couldn't be hit by Smeargle / Aron's Endeavor anyway, so that means only Alakazam-2 wouldn't be KOed by a double target, which is a lot less Pokemon than the number of Ghost-types in the Battle Tower.

Kangaskhan's downside is similar to Smeargle's, though. The ability to damage Ghost-types is only really a slight improvement in the grand scheme of things, as no Ghost-types have Taunt, Sheer Cold, or Fissure. When attacking in Trick Room, just from experience, it didn't really seem like a big deal that I was missing out on not being able to target Ghosts, since Tyranitar is gonna destroy most of them anyway. Like Aron, it also gets no phenomenal filler moves (Stomp or Disable maybe?).

Verdict: I think Aron may be best for its consistency in Trick Room. With literally every move in the game available to Smeargle, I'm sure some move would make it more consistent, but it's really tough to pass up on Sturdy. While Kangaskhan is a cool idea in theory, I think exploring Smeargle's third move is more likely to bear fruit than swapping to Scrappy, since the problem really isn't the inability to hit Ghost-types. Too many games for my comfort, including my loss, ended out of Trick Room with multiple Pokemon still remaining to be KOed, and Aron is the best way to prevent that.

Other observations:
  • I rematched a LOT of trainers in my run, way more than I think I should have. I'm not convinced all 261 possible Doubles Master trainers (excluding bosses) in SadisticMystic's sheet can actually be drawn from. Given that we didn't know genders were fixed, I wonder if some team compositions aren't available to fight once you reach Master Rank 10.
  • The AI is very eager to target the level 1 mon, and I'm not sure what causes the AI to think otherwise. I saw them Brave Bird my Dusknoir several times, for example, but other times they'd always hit the target the Smeargle no matter what. They like picking their strongest move as well, so the Sceptile with Aerial Ace and Focus Blast will pretty much always pick Focus Blast vs Smeargle / Aron from experience.
  • Optimally, you'd play the tower with animations on so you could see the target of Future Sight, since that can impact your plays in subsequent turns. However I don't think anyone would actually do so due to the enormous amount of additional time watching animations would take.
 
Last edited:
I’m going to release a flow chart for gyara/bliss/drapion singles team soon. I’m too lazy and have too much work but all the credit goes to GGunit above. This team can win if played optimally. It just needs a robot like flowchart and even some crazy >=1% hax can fuck it up but if you play optimally you’ll win. I didn’t really see the genius in the team until recently as I’m only a showdown player who is usually top 20 in everything.
 
First of thing you must account for.
“can I just dragon dance and win?” This happens less than 10% of the time. Next you have to look for this.
“Can blissy switch in and above all hax win this?”
If “no” roar.

your entire life is dependent on if you can just switch stall the enemy out of damaging moves to where drapion can win automatically. There are times where you will come to face a team where you can’t. You have to get tricky. Anything with thunderbolt usually has an easy switch to blissey. Sometimes it doesn’t. You have to use the database and use your head “can I eventually survive and use the PP of the opponent to set up peacefully with drapion?” You’ll win some games with blissey alone (20%), and even gyara (5%), but most are trying to get your drapion to switch in and not die to a 3hko ground move. There are some games where you need to shove out subs. It really comes down to how long youve played the team. Hardest things that you have to learn are unaware quag and clef. These can be easily beaten with proper use of roar from gyarados. Many Zapdos need to be roared out and even if you get haxed with a full para on a discharge you can still win.
 

Eisenherz

επέκεινα της ουσίας
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Social Media Contributor Alumnus
Moderator
First, congratulations to Q8altaria for winning the race to 200 in doubles! The title remains up for grabs in singles, though I suspect some are getting close!

Second, the leaderboard has now been added to the thread!
I also added the list of rules we'll be utilizing for leaderboard submissions. I already added every streak that qualified so far in the thread (if I missed anything, let me know!), but please note that from this point onward, a screenshot of your version number will also be required.
I also kept and updated the list of sample teams, since the leaderboard is still nearly empty and a lot of people are looking for teams/sets to try.

Third, the main spreadsheet has been updated a few times since it was first posted, so if you made a copy early on, you may want to update it. Please note we just learned last night that it also appears every Pokémon is PP maxed; a 0-3 number associated with every set in the data dump seemed like it may be the number of PP Ups used, but it led to the odd conclusion that boss trainers were the ones without maxed out PP. The new theory is that this number is the Pokémon's gender, with 3 being random; this would mean boss trainers would be the ones with set genders on their Pokémon, unlike other trainers.
The calculator has also been updated, a few missing moves were added, Crush Grip and Wring Out were fixed, as well as a bug that showed a few sets in their mega forme mistakingly by default.

---------------------------------------------------------
Fourth, I have a submission of my own to make...!

Pokémon Sword-Shield Screen Shot 2021-12-07, 2.11 PM.png

Pokémon Sword-Shield Screen Shot 2021-12-08, 6.13 PM.png


My first streak detailed here died at 58; I played without the lookup and immediately assumed a lead Garchomp was sashed (it wasn't), tried to play around it, found out later a backline Tyranitar was sashed instead, and that threw off my entire battle plan. I took this as an occasion to grind for Raikou, though my loss wasn't Jolteon's fault at all, Raikou's additional bulk is undeniably better... point in case, 203.

@

Modest | Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Brine / Hurricane / Tailwind / Protect

I'm now sold on Brine over Scald , if only for that one Snorlax Barry has, where Scald + Hurricane puts Snorlax in Brine range and nothing else.

@

Modest | Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Scald / Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam / Protect

Still wishing Ice Beam could be Hurricane...

@

Timid | Inner Focus
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Thunder / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Extrasensory

I had already switched to Thunderbolt on Jolteon on the previous team, and used it a lot, it's so much safer to have in weather wars of when rain expires. The only reason the last 2 moves weren't Volt Switch / Scald is because I had no more of those TMs and couldn't find an underground vendor anytime I checked. I have now decided Shadow Ball is worth keeping though, if only for Latias, which is one of the biggest threats to the team. The Calm Mind set turns out to be unpredictable and really difficult to play around, and Shadow Ball is key there. Extrasensory is useful at times but I'll switch it to Volt Switch as soon as I get the chance. Scald, as much sense as it seems to make on a rain team, really doesn't feel necessary with Kingdra and Pelipper on the team; they've got those targets handled.

@

Adamant | Technician
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe

Bullet Punch / X-Scissor / Swords Dance / Protect

No changes to Scizor, the speed has come into play against Suicune and Rotom in several battles, so it's a no-brainer to me, but I would consider cutting attack and adding bulk, I'm not convinced 252+ is necessary.

---------------------------------------------------------
The team still feels a bit volatile, but Scizor really holds it together in times of need. Of course, the pre-set teams allowing to plan everything at the very start of the battle is really what's helping a more volatile team be viable. There's no doubt to me now that this + the 2v1 mechanic makes battles a lot easier if you're willing to take the time to play them properly. The counterweight of more hax items and better sets overall does matter though, as I'm semi-regularly forced to handle battles assuming the worst case scenario won't happen - which only means it eventually will, and I'll lose.

For its volatility, what rain offers is perfectly accurate Thunders and Hurricanes to work my way around evasion, and Thunder in particular comes into play a lot. This is basically the role No Guard is playing on those Trick Room teams that are also on the board, and I think it's an unfortunately necessary role for any team with hopes of a high streak in this Tower (by high, I mean 1000+). Unlike previous facilities, evasion also usually comes alongside heavy offensive pressure, and arent as passive as Tree Blissey4 or Cresselia2.

The biggest threats to the team, off the top of my head:
- Basically any Gastrodon or Cradily lead. They're all Storm Drain, require many hits to KO, and must be put out of the way first. There's one that leads alongside Heatran I'm pretty sure, and because that Heatran has Dragon Pulse and Ancient Power, it can practically sweep me while I keep targeting the partner. I think I ended up having to KOing it with Thunder every time.
- Latias-2 lead. Whether it goes for CM or Dragon Pulse is a coinflip; it OHKOs Kingdra, and Kingdra doesn't OHKO back. I usually have to sac Kingdra to it and rely on Raikou + Scizor (something prevents Scizor from helping out right away, I think it's Sunny Day Houndoom).
- The Bronzong/Abomasnow lead with Rotom-W and either Rhyperior or Torkoal in the back. My play against it is to switch to Scizor + Scald Bronzong turn 1 to get the damage I need to deny a 2nd TR. Abomasnow sometimes protects, sometimes Shadow Balls, and sometimes Blizzards. Scizor getting frozen on the switch is worst case scenario (happened once). On the next turn I double protect to stall out a turn of TR, then switch Kingdra into Pelipper to reset the weather. I used to go for SD with Scizor, but now I just BP Abomasnow for the 2HKO, because Bronzong spams Rock Slide and flinches won't stop coming. What happens next depends on the flinches, but I ensure to preserve Pelipper in case the last is Torkoal, and make sure that I deny the 2nd TR.
- Ludicolo-3, I don't remember what it shows alongside, but I remember it's been an absolute pain every time.

I recorded every set from battle 105 onward and put them on YouTube, just for archival purposes. I think the most interesting one to watch is probably 176-182, it features a lot of more challenging battles, starting off with the very one I lost my 1st streak to. Sadly, many of these sets (134-182) have bugged out audio because of my Switch's audio issue, so I strongly suggest muting them and putting music of your own if you're gonna watch any!


(opening this link on YouTube should show the entire playlist)

---------------------------------------------------------

I'll keep this streak going as long as I can, but I have no plan on building any further teams until Home compatibility is added. I have no breeding tools right now, so getting any Pokémon I need is a huge chore, and Home will open up many new possibilities for movesets, so I'd rather wait until then.

Good luck to everyone!
 
Last edited:
First, congratulations to Q8altaria for winning the race to 200 in doubles! The title remains up for grabs in singles, though I suspect some are getting close!

Second, the leaderboard has now been added to the thread!
I also added the list of rules we'll be utilizing for leaderboard submissions. I already added every streak that qualified so far in the thread (if I missed anything, let me know!), but please note that from this point onward, a screenshot of your version number will also be required.
I also kept and updated the list of sample teams, since the leaderboard is still nearly empty and a lot of people are looking for teams/sets to try.

Third, the main spreadsheet has been updated a few times since it was first posted, so if you made a copy early on, you may want to update it. Please note we just learned last night that it also appears every Pokémon is PP maxed; a 0-3 number associated with every set in the data dump seemed like it may be the number of PP Ups used, but it led to the odd conclusion that boss trainers were the ones without maxed out PP. The new theory is that this number is the Pokémon's gender, with 3 being random; this would mean boss trainers would be the ones with set genders on their Pokémon, unlike other trainers.
The calculator has also been updated, a few missing moves were added, Crush Grip and Wring Out were fixed, as well as a bug that showed a few sets in their mega forme mistakingly by default.

---------------------------------------------------------
Fourth, I have a submission of my own to make...!

View attachment 390848


My first streak detailed here died at 58; I played without the lookup and immediately assumed a lead Garchomp was sashed (it wasn't), tried to play around it, found out later a backline Tyranitar was sashed instead, and that threw off my entire battle plan. I took this as an occasion to grind for Raikou, though my loss wasn't Jolteon's fault at all, Raikou's additional bulk is undeniably better... point in case, 203.

@

Modest | Drizzle
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Brine / Hurricane / Tailwind / Protect

I'm now sold on Brine over Scald , if only for that one Snorlax Barry has, where Scald + Hurricane puts Snorlax in Brine range and nothing else.

@

Modest | Swift Swim
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe

Scald / Dragon Pulse / Ice Beam / Protect

Still wishing Ice Beam could be Hurricane...

@

Timid | Inner Focus
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe

Thunder / Thunderbolt / Shadow Ball / Extrasensory

I had already switched to Thunderbolt on Jolteon on the previous team, and used it a lot, it's so much safer to have in weather wars of when rain expires. The only reason the last 2 moves weren't Volt Switch / Scald is because I had no more of those TMs and couldn't find an underground vendor anytime I checked. I have now decided Shadow Ball is worth keeping though, if only for Latias, which is one of the biggest threats to the team. The Calm Mind set turns out to be unpredictable and really difficult to play around, and Shadow Ball is key there. Extrasensory is useful at times but I'll switch it to Volt Switch as soon as I get the chance. Scald, as much sense as it seems to make on a rain team, really doesn't feel necessary with Kingdra and Pelipper on the team; they've got those targets handled.

@

Adamant | Technician
EVs: 76 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def / 4 SpD / 172 Spe

Bullet Punch / X-Scissor / Swords Dance / Protect

No changes to Scizor, the speed has come into play against Suicune and Rotom in several battles, so it's a no-brainer to me, but I would consider cutting attack and adding bulk, I'm not convinced 252+ is necessary.

---------------------------------------------------------
The team still feels a bit volatile, but Scizor really holds it together in times of need. Of course, the pre-set teams allowing to plan everything at the very start of the battle is really what's helping a more volatile team be viable. There's no doubt to me now that this + the 2v1 mechanic makes battles a lot easier if you're willing to take the time to play them properly. The counterweight of more hax items and better sets overall does matter though, as I'm semi-regularly forced to handle battles assuming the worst case scenario won't happen - which only means it eventually will, and I'll lose.

For its volatility, what rain offers is perfectly accurate Thunders and Hurricanes to work my way around evasion, and Thunder in particular comes into play a lot. This is basically the role No Guard is playing on those Trick Room teams that are also on the board, and I think it's an unfortunately necessary role for any team with hopes of a high streak in this Tower (by high, I mean 1000+). Unlike previous facilities, evasion also usually comes alongside heavy offensive pressure, and arent as passive as Tree Blissey4 or Cresselia2.

The biggest threats to the team, off the top of my head:
- Basically any Gastrodon or Cradily lead. They're all Storm Drain, require many hits to KO, and must be put out of the way first. There's one that leads alongside Heatran I'm pretty sure, and because that Heatran has Dragon Pulse and Ancient Power, it can practically sweep me while I keep targeting the partner. I think I ended up having to KOing it with Thunder every time.
- Latias-2 lead. Whether it goes for CM or Dragon Pulse is a coinflip; it OHKOs Kingdra, and Kingdra doesn't OHKO back. I usually have to sac Kingdra to it and rely on Raikou + Scizor (something prevents Scizor from helping out right away, I think it's Sunny Day Houndoom).
- The Bronzong/Abomasnow lead with Rotom-W and either Rhyperior or Torkoal in the back. My play against it is to switch to Scizor + Scald Bronzong turn 1 to get the damage I need to deny a 2nd TR. Abomasnow sometimes protects, sometimes Shadow Balls, and sometimes Blizzards. Scizor getting frozen on the switch is worst case scenario (happened once). On the next turn I double protect to stall out a turn of TR, then switch Kingdra into Pelipper to reset the weather. I used to go for SD with Scizor, but now I just BP Abomasnow for the 2HKO, because Bronzong spams Rock Slide and flinches won't stop coming. What happens next depends on the flinches, but I ensure to preserve Pelipper in case the last is Torkoal, and make sure that I deny the 2nd TR.
- Ludicolo-3, I don't remember what it shows alongside, but I remember it's been an absolute pain every time.

I recorded every set from battle 105 onward and put them on YouTube, just for archival purposes. I think the most interesting one to watch is probably 176-182, it features a lot of more challenging battles, starting off with the very one I lost my 1st streak to. Sadly, many of these sets (134-182) have bugged out audio because of my Switch's audio issue, so I strongly suggest muting them and putting music of your own if you're gonna watch any!


(opening this link on YouTube should show the entire playlist)

---------------------------------------------------------

I'll keep this streak going as long as I can, but I have no plan on building any further teams until Home compatibility is added. I have no breeding tools right now, so getting any Pokémon I need is a huge chore, and Home will open up many new possibilities for movesets, so I'd rather wait until then.

Good luck to everyone!
Mr. Eisenherz is an underrated genius!!!
 

Jirachee

phoenix reborn
is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
Has anyone run into a similar softlock? My opponent's Roserade used Ingrain and before my Magnezone could Volt Switch the game soft locked. It seems impossible to get out of that state no matter what button I press. Was on a decent streak too, something to consider before attempting serious streaks :/
 


Streak ended to this


Ninetales-4FIRHeat RockSolar Beam16Fire Blast8Hex16Will-O-Wisp24TimidDrought4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/31
Shiftry-4GRS/DRKFocus SashSolar Beam16Dark Pulse24Icy Wind24Nasty Plot32TimidChlorophyll4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/31
Latios-5DRG/PSYChoice SpecsDraco Meteor8Surf24Psychic16Thunderbolt24TimidLevitate4/0/0/252/0/25231/0/31/31/31/31

Latios DM crit my Scizor after I tried to set up a SD on him. I should've probably go for x-scisor directly then 2 bps on shiftry, but since it critted me on the same turn it wouldn't have made any difference. The game needed to land a crit dm and thats what ended up happening so im very happy knowing this is another instance of the tower doing what it needs in order to win xdd
 
Hi! This is a super minor thing, but I DMed Eisenherz about it earlier, and they suggested I should post about it in the thread here since it may answer some things people had been wondering about.
Third, the main spreadsheet has been updated a few times since it was first posted, so if you made a copy early on, you may want to update it. Please note we just learned last night that it also appears every Pokémon is PP maxed; a 0-3 number associated with every set in the data dump seemed like it may be the number of PP Ups used, but it led to the odd conclusion that boss trainers were the ones without maxed out PP. The new theory is that this number is the Pokémon's gender, with 3 being random; this would mean boss trainers would be the ones with set genders on their Pokémon, unlike other trainers.
Here, Eisenherz mentioned the genders of enemy Pokémon - they were guessing that the number 3, which seems to be used as a default, meant a Pokémon had a random gender.
I am just here to confirm that this column represents the Pokémon's gender, and I have a minor clarification to offer based on the regular campaign Trainer data and how it worked in the campaign Trainer data and in the original DPPt!

Having made the Trainer data sheet that went around for a bit, I can confirm that every Trainer-owned Pokémon for regular in-game teams (not the Battle Tower but stuff like route Trainers and story bosses) has its gender set to 3; it is definitely a default value of sorts. Also, the in-game data has labeled column headers and that one is called "Sex" - you're definitely right that that's what it's for! (it's not PP Ups)
That said, it doesn't actually become random - instead, I think it works the same as the originals, as explained here!
Basically, any Pokémon will default to the more common gender for its species (starters are always male, Ninetales are always female, and so on), but Pokémon with a 50/50 gender ratio don't have a more common gender, so they will instead match a default gender specific to their Trainer (or... specifically I think it's by Trainer class, not by individual NPC! but note that some Trainer classes have the same name, like all Gym Leaders being called "Gym Leader" but internally having eight different classes... hopefully that's not confusing OTL I think using the Trainer's model/appearance is a better rule of thumb for what constitutes a distinct class).
This default is almost always the same as their Trainer's gender, but there are a couple of edge cases, like Saturn being male but preferring to use female Pokémon; I don't actually know whether or not any Battle Tower Trainers are like that or where to find it, unfortunately.
I assume the reason 3 is used for sets that correspond to more than one Trainer is so they can keep this up - if the same set is used by a male NPC and a female NPC, they wouldn't want to have two copies of it just to give one of them a male Pokémon and one of them a female Pokémon, so they set it to it automate that instead.
(If I remember correctly, all of the sets just had the default 3 for their gender in the 1.0 data - I was surprised when I first gained access to the 1.1 data and saw that they had gone through the boss Pokémon and assigned them genders one by one! I wonder how many of them are actually different than the default value would have been? They do literally all just use 3 in their main story teams, haha; it seems almost universally unnecessary to use any other number.)

I just wanted to share this because it's been noted that genders in the Battle Tower aren't random, and I think it behaves the same way as main campaign opponents instead. You mentioned you weren't sure if the flag corresponded to gender (and I'm pretty confident it does, FWIW!), so I wanted to give more information that might help to confirm that! I could see people noticing that Pokémon with a gender of 3 weren't random after all and thinking that meant the theory didn't match up, so I wanted to share what I knew XP

Thank you for your time! I know probably this only concerns a few people, but yeah :'D I find this stuff interesting sometimes!
 

Scizor @ Leftovers
Ability: Technician
Level: 50
EVs: 128 HP / 252 Atk / 128 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- X-Scissor

[...]

Btw, if you have Thief, put Thief instead of X-Scissor.
Is there a reason for the 128/128 EV spread? Do you avoid a 2HKO with that spread? I'll follow your Spe advice and train mine with a 130 HP/252 Atk/124 SpD/4 Spe spread.

I have one extra Thief TM46 if you want :) Though wouldn't you need to remove the Leftovers for the move to have any effect?
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 1)

Top