Resource BDSP OU Viability Rankings

[agentkeval]

yo im stupid fr, so idk if this the right thread.. but hear me out
S -> Ban

this bum of a mon is too good. Bro clicks 2 moves and wins the game, tbh, might only click one move. With its high attack stat + band, along with STAB dark move and hazards being a big part of the metagame, this thing overwhelms teams so easily. Theres like one viable dark resist, and that’s clef, which dies to crash or spikestack/rocks. Suspect?????

also drop latias
S- -> A+
Bro this mon has not been living up to what ppl would say it would do imo. mfs were like “it’ll basically be the next latios!!” No. It’s wack, shit just lets the opponent gain momentum, and versus stuff like weavile + fernape + rotom cores, u get overwhelmed really fast. Teams w latias have like 0 matchup vs anything but ho, which is kinda being grown out of (but yes it’s still popular ig). Stuff like specs kinda puts in work, but if outplayed or predicted, it does jack shit. Barely cripples either without trick, and thunder wave can be absorbed by well.. the status absorber lol. Idk, it just dont seem S- worthy, compared to the other stuff there.

With some new council members i hope sumn changes <3

hol up i got some more. Lotta editting
B- -> C
This mon is so ass and barelt does stuff, just out paced by half the tier and dies hella quick. Has niche but is only good against certain teams and good if played well :/ kinda hard to build with too, considering little status spreaders in the tier.. it seems fine but I don’t like how it fits in the meta rn, or more of how it doesn’t fit in the meta rn.

C -> B/B+
Bro the fuck is this doing in C. Rain is gone but shit still is hella nice (although niche..) at sweeping/cleaning. I built an ho including kingdra for Mimikyu Stardust for bdsppl and also used it vs some good players in the testing phase, and this mon super sweeps. Nothing resists hydro/draco focus energy set, and even in fake rain teams its hella nice. What’s ur basic ass rotom gliscor clef core finna do…
Thats all i think, thx for reading

 

[CertifiedBlubberBoi]

Lucario is the best late game sweeper in the tier. Should be S-

 

[Megalobst]

S -> Ban

this bum of a mon is too good. Bro clicks 2 moves and wins the game, tbh, might only click one move. With its high attack stat + band, along with STAB dark move and hazards being a big part of the metagame, this thing overwhelms teams so easily. Theres like one viable dark resist, and that’s clef, which dies to crash or spikestack/rocks. Suspect?????

With the latios ban phys def Scizor is a viable option only being able having a slight chance of 2HKO with adamant banded Troat Chop. Even though I was against the latios ban, its absence left more flexibility for Scizor, although not as needed on each team more to check Latios it is now able to run phys def and to show it's not just a niche to check weavile but a lot of treatening mons. For example such as Mamoswine (needs adamant or CB to 2HKO so 1v1 scizor forces it out with BP). Though not as much of a treat to balance or offense crawdaunt isn't able to 1HKO scizor if its CB and if its life orb the 1 hit Scizor can take is all the chip for a teammate to clean up the giant(mega)(lobst)er crab and goes to show how. So all in all Scizor naturally checks Weavile and Physdef even counters it, which would maybe force weavile into adapting by introducing Magnezone into the team.

All in all remain S

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor: 238-280 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO252+ 252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor: 244-288 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Weavile Throat Chop vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor: 147-174 (42.8 - 50.7%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO

S- -> A+

Mostly agree on this one, Latias doesn't have the immediate power of Latios and dropping a draco or its decent but abusable coverage gives in free switchins for the opponent to take advantage of. Still a great mon and flexible. I think people are expecting too much for Latias to fill in the same role as Latios did. The scarf option lacks some power and is mainly usefull as a revenge killer but lacks the power to still be a treat on its own like latios scarf, Specs just lacks the 1HKO claim kill drop draco that Latios did and can get roost/recovered/softboiled stalled by several mons.

The real gem that sets Latias apart from Latios its ability to use its better bulk to CM sweep, which imo is still underexplored. For example Max HP Max Speed Latias has a high chance of living 2 Moonblast from the setup checking Unaware Clefable. So some experimenting could be done here to allow Latias to Roost stall into Stored power Sweep. Latias has also access to Reflect Type unlike latios allowing Latias to bypass it's weakness vs Clefable allthogher and beat it 1v1 guarenteed though this makes Latias reliant on teammates to deal with spdef steels (tran) and dark types. For now this is a really hard to pull of niche set but also the most potent one justifying A+.
4 SpA Unaware Clefable Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 158-188 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO
Example set

As an support defogger I believe there are better mons. As a defoger it gets u-turned on by Gliscor taking a decent chunk, it doesn't beat/scare Mamoswine once its been shown Latias is a support and needs to be healthy to take an ice shard. Ttar can do whatever it wants. As a wish passer it gets outclassed by other wish passers notably Clefable. It's one safe and grace is Healing wish which is a niche shared with Jirachi.

Verdict: A+

B -> B+

I have been saying it b4 and I say it always, I feel like is underrated. CB TTar hits everything in OU for Neutral from its stab Combo and almost the whole tier gets 2HKO (and quite alot gets 1HKOed of neutral) by it not to mention its EQ and if one rlly hates Gliscor it can take Ice fang for its final slot. Not to mention though even though TTar's speed + typing means he gets limited amount of opportunity to throw in a hit, it's natural bulk and with some manoeuvring allows him to deal with slower stall mons + take a hit or 2. Although CB TTar is what defines his ranking in as a B+ it is held back by protect stalling from stall, the archetype its supposed to be strong against or regenerator swapping into protect/recover stalling its stone edges form misses, however this role is much more shown in good matchups in Offense or slower teammates of Balance. Another underrated role for TTar though this role is defo B- is it's spdef ttar role. It just sits on Heatran and trades rocks while tran can't do anything unless its an offensive variant. As it lacks the offensive power of a usual CB ttar it can still run TWave on mons that look to abuse the weaker attacks it this ttar gives which still do a decent check off 134 Base atk. Also Spdef ttar is still a spdef check that can take EVERY spatk in the tier even Alakazam's life orb unboosted focus blast (breaking its potential sash) only being Guarenteed 1HKO on the special side by Luciario life orb focus blast. Sand chip is also underrated and used to be one of the things that made it top tier in OG DDP. It has even a more variants of sets but these are underwelming at best, most notably DD tar under screens (loses to clef and requires to take a hit which its awefull typing under screens). All in All TTar still a something that deserves B+ for its role to Break defensive cores of balance and stall while killing everything in offense should it find a way to get itself in on a for example favorable choice locked move.

A -> B+

I am potentially considering dropping this guy to B. Still likes to treaten stall but then stall adapted and is now often running Poliwrath a hard counter in everyway to this crab. It's stab is also unlike ttar it also has competes with something that beats it 1v1, Azumaril it being faster and resisting its stabs (though has to take of sludge bomb life orb). As a pure breaker I think it's the best in the tier but nothing is simple at that, for once it is slow and frail and each sets have its problems. For example almost all sets have a hard time coming in on offense as pretty much everything outspeeds it and is forced to click Jet. The life orb set deals with potential checks such as tangrowth but it only highlights the crabs already abysmal bulk. And like I said in the Ttar for the the stall killing choice band, just press protect and swap to clef on Knock off or Quagsire on crabhammer. Oh wait Just use poliwrath. oh its life orb? stall just wears it down, offense it trades at best but is hard to use due low speed, balance here and there an opportunity but often has the tools to revenge or deal with the crab imo. Since Crawdaunt shares currently the same rating as Azumaril I like to make a comparison. In raw breaking power Crawdaunt beats azumaril HOWEVER, Azumaril has a although underused right now still potent Belly Drum sweep set as well as it's better defensive typing and hp/bulk. This allows it to for example fire of a CB play rough on the forced out switch on for example rotom, respecting a Belly Drum sweep while in reality it gets chunked by play rough CB. This makes flexibility + mind games makes me give Azumaril A tier while Crawdaunt which fullfills litterally the same role (being breaking + end game jet sweeping) deserves a drop in rating.

 

[igiveuponaname]

With the latios ban phys def Scizor is a viable option only being able having a slight chance of 2HKO with adamant banded Troat Chop. Even though I was against the latios ban, its absence left more flexibility for Scizor, although not as needed on each team more to check Latios it is now able to run phys def and to show it's not just a niche to check weavile but a lot of treatening mons.

Physdef Scizor is a fine set but being forced into running it so as not to get smashed each time CB Weavile comes in isn't a good sign.

252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor: 238-280 (69.3 - 81.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Scizor: 244-288 (71.1 - 83.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

If you're talking about how good physdef Scizor is against certain physical threats like Crawdaunt, for the love of god don't show calcs like this which show it getting absolutely smashed. Not to mention that full physdef Scizor is a rare set (it only has roughly 2.36% usage according to Pikalytics).

Physdef spreads shown on Pikalytics

Impish 232/0/168/0/108/0
Impish 252/0/148/0/108/0

So all in all Scizor naturally checks Weavile and Physdef even counters it, which would maybe force weavile into adapting by introducing Magnezone into the team.

The only Scizor set that can safely switch into CB Weavile is the physdef set which does do a decent job of switching in, but it still takes over a ton from CB Assurance after rocks, which is a big reason why Weavile is so good and was Agentkeval's main point in their post when talking about Weavile. Weavile being paired with Zone is arguably a point in favour of Weavile, since its best checks are all weak to Zone.

CB Weavile Assurance vs standard Physdef Scizor

252 Atk Choice Band Weavile Assurance vs. 252 HP / 148+ Def Scizor: 219-258 (63.6 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
Assurance's BP was adjusted to 120 since it doubles if the target already took damage that turn (ie Stealth Rocks)

Scizor basically needs to run a physdef set and stay healthy in order to check CB Weavile, while also avoiding getting trapped and KO'd by Magnezone. Considering it's the most splashable Weavile check in the tier, it's understandable why some would like to see Weavile suspected and/or banned.

All in all remain S

I think that for the time being, Weavile is easily S tier without a doubt. High speed, amazing STAB with good moves alongside it, very few switch-ins, Weavile shines in this meta. Unless the meta drastically shifts against Weavile (which I personally think is unlikely), then we might see a Weavile suspect. It's not the first thing that I'd like to see suspected, but this thread really shouldn't be the place to discuss that sort of stuff.

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When it comes to what you said about Ttar I more or less agree with what you said. That being said,

Also Spdef ttar is still a spdef check that can take EVERY spatk in the tier even Alakazam's life orb unboosted focus blast (breaking its potential sash)

252 SpA Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 260-308 (64.3 - 76.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Life Orb Alakazam Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 338-400 (83.6 - 99%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

Yea no. Ttar isn't a Zam check. Yea it switches into anything other than Focus Blast, but the risk of switching in to Focus Blast and getting OHKO'd after rocks is way too high. If it's sash you need to stay in and once again risk getting hit by Focus Blast in order to actually break the sash since Magic Guard prevents sand damage from doing it for you. If you run Chople Berry you can take one Focus Blast but then you lose leftovers recovery and you still lose to two Focus Blasts from even a sash Zam after rocks.

So yea, I agree with your take on Ttar more or less. I still think it's fine in B, however.

 

[CertifiedBlubberBoi]

Who runs poliwrath? lol

I am potentially considering dropping this guy to B. Still likes to treaten stall but then stall adapted and is now often running Poliwrath a hard counter in everyway to this crab. It's stab is also unlike ttar it also has competes with something that beats it 1v1, Azumaril it being faster and resisting its stabs (though has to take of sludge bomb life orb). As a pure breaker I think it's the best in the tier but nothing is simple at that, for once it is slow and frail and each sets have its problems. For example almost all sets have a hard time coming in on offense as pretty much everything outspeeds it and is forced to click Jet. The life orb set deals with potential checks such as tangrowth but it only highlights the crabs already abysmal bulk. And like I said in the Ttar for the the stall killing choice band, just press protect and swap to clef on Knock off or Quagsire on crabhammer. Oh wait Just use poliwrath. oh its life orb? stall just wears it down, offense it trades at best but is hard to use due low speed, balance here and there an opportunity but often has the tools to revenge or deal with the crab imo. Since Crawdaunt shares currently the same rating as Azumaril I like to make a comparison. In raw breaking power Crawdaunt beats azumaril HOWEVER, Azumaril has a although underused right now still potent Belly Drum sweep set as well as it's better defensive typing and hp/bulk. This allows it to for example fire of a CB play rough on the forced out switch on for example rotom, respecting a Belly Drum sweep while in reality it gets chunked by play rough CB. This makes flexibility + mind games makes me give Azumaril A tier while Crawdaunt which fullfills litterally the same role (being breaking + end game jet sweeping) deserves a drop in rating.

 

[igiveuponaname]

Who runs poliwrath? lol

Stall does. It's the best answer stall has to Crawdaunt, and it also performs really well against Weavile, Feraligatr, and CB Ttar, all of whom can threaten stall teams without Poliwrath. It's literally B rank on the viability rankings, the thread we're on right now.

 

[CertifiedBlubberBoi]

Never seen it once in my entire time playing. Tang and Clef can also wall it easily.

Stall does. It's the best answer stall has to Crawdaunt, and it also performs really well against Weavile, Feraligatr, and CB Ttar, all of whom can threaten stall teams without Poliwrath. It's literally B rank on the viability rankings, the thread we're on right now.

 

[H momento]

Never seen it once in my entire time playing. Tang and Clef can also wall it easily.

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 260-307 (65.9 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Life Orb Crawdaunt Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tangrowth: 239-283 (59.1 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Any questions?

 

[dex]

Never seen it once in my entire time playing. Tang and Clef can also wall it easily.

Poliwrath is used exclusively on stall teams for the exact reasons mentioned above: it can switch into Crawdaunt and Weavile. While it is not a great standalone defensive option, stall provides it with the defensive backbone to put in great work as an answer to the threateningly powerful Dark-types that the tier hosts. Neither Tangrowth nor Clefable are capable of switching into Weavile and Crawdaunt barring prediction. This is Poliwrath’s niche.

 

[CertifiedBlubberBoi]

I have never seen a craw sludge into tang switch.75%+ of crawdaunts are banded in higher ladder from my experience. also they usually will knock off unless its super late game.

252+ Atk Life Orb Adaptability Crawdaunt Crabhammer vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 260-307 (65.9 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0- SpA Life Orb Crawdaunt Sludge Bomb vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tangrowth: 239-283 (59.1 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Any questions?

 

[Smashburn]

How do yall feel about Blastoise currently? Tier is sorta dead after the BDSP hype died down and it's hard to get information.

Usually has trouble getting around bulky Water-types but I figure trying to make an offense that revolves around Shell Smash Hyper Beam Blastoise + Mamoswine is a good start. The idea is to blow up bulky resists, and it really never "needed" Dark Pulse anyways, considering +2 Life Orb Hydro Pump only needs a little chip to grab Jirachi, and once you're in Torrent range you blow up even max SpD regardless.

Cloyster offers a similar niche but not resisting / neutralling Mach Punch and Bullet Punch sucks, plus Closyter is slower and doesn't get the Torrent boost after chip. Also, it would much rather use a physical or mixed set that utilizes Explosion and Hydro Pump, effectively nipping it in the bud by investment and how it handles walls. Blastoise is the all-around superior pick for this reason, and I want to try building a solid offense team with it. It does have some trouble with SpD Empoleon.

For reference, here are some of its typical resists and a few relevant calcs:



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 277-328 (68.5 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 415-489 (102.7 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 328-386 (125.6 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 330-389 (108.5 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 240-283 (78.9 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 182-214 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 272-320 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 420-495 (122.8 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 347-408 (101.4 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 408-481 (130.7 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 335-395 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

[igiveuponaname]

How do yall feel about Blastoise currently? Tier is sorta dead after the BDSP hype died down and it's hard to get information.

Usually has trouble getting around bulky Water-types but I figure trying to make an offense that revolves around Shell Smash Hyper Beam Blastoise + Mamoswine is a good start. The idea is to blow up bulky resists, and it really never "needed" Dark Pulse anyways, considering +2 Life Orb Hydro Pump only needs a little chip to grab Jirachi, and once you're in Torrent range you blow up even max SpD regardless.

Cloyster offers a similar niche but not resisting / neutralling Mach Punch and Bullet Punch sucks, plus Closyter is slower and doesn't get the Torrent boost after chip. Also, it would much rather use a physical or mixed set that utilizes Explosion and Hydro Pump, effectively nipping it in the bud by investment and how it handles walls. Blastoise is the all-around superior pick for this reason, and I want to try building a solid offense team with it. It does have some trouble with SpD Empoleon.

For reference, here are some of its typical resists and a few relevant calcs:



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 277-328 (68.5 - 81.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jirachi: 415-489 (102.7 - 121%) -- guaranteed OHKO



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Starmie: 328-386 (125.6 - 147.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 330-389 (108.5 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 240-283 (78.9 - 93%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 182-214 (59.8 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Rotom-Wash: 272-320 (89.4 - 105.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 420-495 (122.8 - 144.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Azumarill: 347-408 (101.4 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO



+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 408-481 (130.7 - 154.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Feraligatr: 335-395 (107.3 - 126.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Blastoise is a fine Shell Smash Sweeper that can do a lot of damage when played right but imo its flaws drag it down too much. Hyper Beam can certainly blow past some bulky water resists, but there's the obvious downside of the recharge turn after being used, giving the opponent a completely free turn is something you want to avoid at all costs. On top of that, dropping Dark Pulse leaves you walled by Slowking, which you can normally 2HKO with +2 Dark Pulse. This isn't even mentioning the obvious Blissey problem that Blastoise has to deal with unless you run Focus Punch or Brick Break. Suicune, Milotic, and Clefable are also big thorns in Blastoise's side.

Calcs

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 131-154 (32.4 - 38.1%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 238-281 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 99-117 (25.1 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (big reason to want Dark Pulse imo)



+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Milotic: 221-261 (56 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 228-268 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- 89.9% chance to 3HKO



+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Blastoise also faces competition from Cloyster as a Shell Smash sweeper; who is slower, but more powerful, and also able to break sashes because of Skill Link multi-hit moves. Cloyster can also run Spikes sets (granted I don't think these are very common) which gives it more flexibility over Blastoise, who is really only able to run Shell Smash sets.

Lastly, Blastoise was dropped from the VR during the last update. While I do not know the exact reasons why, I'd imagine it's for many of the same reasons I just mentioned. It is true that that was nearly two months ago, but I don't think the meta has shifted much in that time for Blastoise's placement to change.

TL:DR

Blastoise is a fine Shell Smash sweeper but gets walled by bulky water resists and faces competition from the much better Cloyster. It can work, but needs more support and needs to be played well.

 

[Smashburn]

Blastoise is a fine Shell Smash Sweeper that can do a lot of damage when played right but imo its flaws drag it down too much. Hyper Beam can certainly blow past some bulky water resists, but there's the obvious downside of the recharge turn after being used, giving the opponent a completely free turn is something you want to avoid at all costs. On top of that, dropping Dark Pulse leaves you walled by Slowking, which you can normally 2HKO with +2 Dark Pulse. This isn't even mentioning the obvious Blissey problem that Blastoise has to deal with unless you run Focus Punch or Brick Break. Suicune and Clefable are also big thorns in Blastoise's side.

Calcs

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 131-154 (32.4 - 38.1%) -- 0.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Suicune: 238-281 (58.9 - 69.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 181-214 (45.9 - 54.3%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 99-117 (25.1 - 29.6%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 194-230 (49.2 - 58.3%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO (big reason to want Dark Pulse imo)



+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 228-268 (31.9 - 37.5%) -- 89.9% chance to 3HKO



+2 252+ SpA Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Unaware Clefable: 160-190 (40.6 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Blastoise also faces competition from Cloyster as a Shell Smash sweeper; who is slower, but more powerful, and also able to break sashes because of Skill Link multi-hit moves. Cloyster can also run Spikes sets (granted I don't think these are very common) which gives it more flexibility over Blastoise, who is really only able to run Shell Smash sets.

Lastly, Blastoise was dropped from the VR during the last update. While I do not know the exact reasons why, I'd imagine it's for many of the same reasons I just mentioned. It is true that that was nearly two months ago, but I don't think the meta has shifted much in that time for Blastoise's placement to change.

TL:DR

Blastoise is a fine Shell Smash sweeper but gets walled by bulky water resists and faces competition from the much better Cloyster. It can work, but needs more support and needs to be played well.

Sounds good, only thing is that I'm referring to Life Orb over White Herb or Mystic Water on it so it effects relevant calcs. imo the other items don't let it do as much work.

Suicune is a fine check, but also easy to wear down and even if RestTalk is a problem in my experience it isn't common. The calcs without LO are also significantly different from what I'm talking about. Sure Hydro is still a 3HKO most of the time, but once you're in Torrent territory it's a 2HKO and you'd never try to be in front of a healthy Suicune anyways.

Suicune Calcs

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 309-364 (76.4 - 90%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 309-364 (76.4 - 90%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock


+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 170-200 (42 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 170-200 (42 - 49.5%) -- 24.2% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Suicune: 253-300 (62.6 - 74.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Slowking is definitely one I hadn't thought much of in all fairness. It stone walls Blastoise outside of Torrent, and even though Torrent +2 Hydro Pump is a 2HKO on the bulkiest Slowking variant it also takes 20% minimum plus LO damage. I would agree, this is one Blastoise has some trouble getting around if it is max SpD.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hyper Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Slowking: 235-278 (59.6 - 70.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Blissey is pretty much the same as above, and CM sets stonewall it. Its more passive sets are exploitable though, as regular or Torrent Hydro Pump (especially at +4 or +6) rips through it. Not counting SpD, however it is a similar situation if it is a passive set.

+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 663-781 (92.8 - 109.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
+4 252+ SpA Life Orb Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Blissey: 442-523 (61.9 - 73.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Clefable is slightly different because of Unaware, certainly something you don't want to face at the start of the match. However, Blastoise can still situationally rip through it with Torrent-- granted, if Hydro Miss actually hits.

+2 252+ SpA Life Orb Torrent Blastoise Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Unaware Clefable: 222-263 (56.3 - 66.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Aside from those calc differences that was a good quick rundown, I appreciate the response :)

 

[Lalaya]

Our fourth slate for the Viability Rankings dropped (possibly the last one before the transition to the Ruins of Alph), and they're now updated!

Rises:

• Celebi (to A-)
• Cresselia (new, to C)
• Empoleon (to B-)
• Gastrodon (to B-)
• Medicham (new, to B-)
• Quagsire (to B)
• Roserade (to B+)
• Shaymin (to B)
• Togekiss (to A-)

Drops:

• Donphan (to B-)
• Feraligatr (to A-)
• Garchomp (to A+)
• Latias (to A+)
• Magnezone (to B+)
• Milotic (to B-)
• Mismagius (to C)
• Nidoking (to A-)
• Salamence (to B)
• Slowbro (to B+)
• Slowking (to B-)
• Suicune (to A-)
• Tyranitar (to B-)

 

[dex]

Thought I would help give some reasonings on some of these!

Rises

• Celebi (to A-)

Celebi has proven itself to be an incredible pivot and bulky offense threat. Grass-types are all the rage in BDSP due to our one true overlord, Crawdaunt, and Celebi helps provide teams with a means of offensively pressuring it while providing useful utility.

• Medicham (new, to B-)

Medicham might seem like an odd pick in a metagame that plays host to other powerful Psychic-types like Alakazam and Latias, but what it lacks in Speed it more than makes up for in raw power and coverage. Its access to priority in Fake Out and ability to hit Gliscor in Ice Punch makes Medicham a devil to deal with when it gets the chance to come in.

• Roserade (to B+)

Roserade offers impressive support as an offensive spiker with access to Natural Cure and Synthesis to keep it healthy. Its bulk is just high enough that it can check Clefable with the threat of a Sludge Bomb poison as well. As mentioned before, Grass-types are sort of amazing in BDSP OU, and Roserade's quick rise is proof of that.

• Shaymin (to B)

Shaymin is a personal favorite of mine. While Tangrowth may be able to deal with Crawdaunt better in the long-term, Shaymin is able to deal with it moderately well with the combination of Rest + Natural Cure and offers unique stallbreaking capabilities due to its ability to threaten the bulky Water-types stall relies on and Leech Seed, which allows it to counter stall Blissey.

Drops

• Donphan (to B-)

There are many Ground-types available in BDSP OU to choose from, including the extremely powerful duo of Gliscor and Garchomp. This has resulted in Donphan dropping, as its niche as an offensive spinner is just not needed or is too hard to justify on many teams.

• Feraligatr (to A-)

This drop is more about Crawdaunt being Crawdaunt than anything to do with Feraligatr. While its sweeping potential is still quite real, Crawdaunt just offers a lot more initial "oomph".

• Magnezone (to B+)

Magnezone's niche of trapping Scizor has become drastically less important with Latios's ban. Add onto the fact that many Skarmory run Shed Shell, and you get a Pokemon whose main usecase is not needed in the current metagame. It is still a terrifyingly powerful breaker, however, though SpD Gliscor's popularity makes it quite sad.

• Nidoking (to A-)

The metagame has trended towards two extremes as of late: offense and stall. These are, unfortunately, the two archetypes Nidoking struggles most against, as it rarely gets in against offense and stall is uniquely capable of dealing with its offensive pressure, though Focus Punch variants can surprise in stall matchups.

If anyone has questions about the changes, feel free to ask them and I will do my best to answer them!

 

[igiveuponaname]

If anyone has questions about the changes, feel free to ask them and I will do my best to answer them!

What caused Garchomp to drop? Was it competition from other ground types? Togekiss rose on the VR, does this have anything to do with Garchomp's drop as well?

Speaking of Togekiss, what caused it to rise?

Why was Cresselia added to C? Is it good on certain balance and stall structures? Or does it have a unique niche that I'm not aware of?

Edit: Nearly forgot, why did Gastrodon rise to B-? Whenever it was mentioned on the BDSP discord it was torn into, so I'm kinda shocked to see it rise.

 

[Tbolt]

• Nidoking (to A-)

The metagame has trended towards two extremes as of late: offense and stall. These are, unfortunately, the two archetypes Nidoking struggles most against, as it rarely gets in against offense and stall is uniquely capable of dealing with its offensive pressure, though Focus Punch variants can surprise in stall matchups.

> be , a flexible mon that does work against stall with Choice Band
> drops to B-
> theoretically (according to your own logic) gets handled by stall but is still A-

Also, are we distinguishing bulky offense teams from offensive teams in this statement, because most VoltTurn teams are bulky in nature by virtue of the fact that they almost always carry and , if not as well.

 

[dex]

What caused Garchomp to drop? Was it competition from other ground types? Togekiss rose on the VR, does this have anything to do with Garchomp's drop as well?

Speaking of Togekiss, what caused it to rise?

Why was Cresselia added to C? Is it good on certain balance and stall structures? Or does it have a unique niche that I'm not aware of?

Edit: Nearly forgot, why did Gastrodon rise to B-? Whenever it was mentioned on the BDSP discord it was torn into, so I'm kinda shocked to see it rise.

Garchomp’s drop largely has to do with Weavile’s dominance and the existence of Clefable and yes, Togekiss’s rise. Choice Scarf sets have become more difficult to make progress with, while Life Orb sets lack critical longevity.

Togekiss, as mentioned above, has become a popular choice to deal with Garchomp and Latias. Thunder Wave sets are uniquely capable of dealing with Latias, while the classic Choice Scarf Kiss is as good as always.

Cresselia has seen minor usage as a bulky Calm Mind sweeper, often paired with Clefable.

Gastrodon has risen mainly as a hardstop to Rotom-W. Sticky Hold Gastrodon puts a complete stop to the popular Trick + Nasty Plot set, while defensive Rotom-W is easily chipped by Scald. Its positive matchup info Heatran also helps its case.

> be , a flexible mon that does work against stall with Choice Band
> drops to B-
> theoretically (according to your own logic) gets handled by stall but is still A-

Also, are we distinguishing bulky offense teams from offensive teams in this statement, because most VoltTurn teams are bulky in nature by virtue of the fact that they almost always carry and , if not as well.

Balance, BO, and VoltTurn variants of the two are not out of the meta quite yet, and likely never will be. My comment was more about the increased viability of stall and HO. Tyranitar has a lot more issues going for it than Nidoking does. Its lackluster Speed is painful in the current meta, and its typing does it no favors in a Ground-infested metagame. Sure, it’s a terrifying breaker, but it is overall reliant on prediction, making it more difficult to exact value from compared to Nidoking, another wallbreaker that struggles to get in.

 

[Lalaya]

What caused Garchomp to drop? Was it competition from other ground types? Togekiss rose on the VR, does this have anything to do with Garchomp's drop as well?

Speaking of Togekiss, what caused it to rise?

Why was Cresselia added to C? Is it good on certain balance and stall structures? Or does it have a unique niche that I'm not aware of?

Edit: Nearly forgot, why did Gastrodon rise to B-? Whenever it was mentioned on the BDSP discord it was torn into, so I'm kinda shocked to see it rise.

Late to the party but basically Garchomp is not quite the "end all" solution to offense teams as it was touted; most of its sets can't get past Clefable, Gliscor or Rotom-W, and when you can get past one, you're trading something for it, and the rise of things such as Togekiss are also a slightly major annoyance since he was already forced to run Fire Blast, and now Stone Edge as well (or just don't and let another member take the role, which impacts Garchomp's usefulness on the field)

Togekiss is a pretty good fit for the current meta, capable of multiple roles at once, be that you want speed control, stallbreaking capabilities or just a decent Scarfer to spam the STABs, with good coverage to boot

Cresselia in my opinion could have stayed UR but to be fair it's the bulkiest Psychic on the meta, and can turn into a wincon almost at will; it's just waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too slow to be one and Clefable is just better in every conceivable way, but Cresselia still has its niche (and honestly whoever has Healing Wish in this meta can be used to some extent)

Gastrodon is just because some structures like having the full stop to Rotom-W, that's literally it (thanks to Sticky Hold); beware if the Rotom user plots, though

> be , a flexible mon that does work against stall with Choice Band
> drops to B-
> theoretically (according to your own logic) gets handled by stall but is still A-

Also, are we distinguishing bulky offense teams from offensive teams in this statement, because most VoltTurn teams are bulky in nature by virtue of the fact that they almost always carry and , if not as well.

Tyranitar might be flexible, but it's also PAINFULLY slow and kind of bites the dust against any prepared offense in the metagame, even if it has some niches with Choice items or resist berries to either click Stone Edge 99% of the times or set rocks, but... it's not a niche well searched for, and since almost every stall structure likes to have Poliwrath there too...
Basically you can find a Tyranitar answer in every decent team in this meta, but you can also answer most of those with a exotic Tyranitar set; but aside from that, it's just plain outclassed on its major jobs, while Nidoking is decently fast and hits hard enough to drop most non-HO/stall teams, even if its performance is slightly worse now with current meta trends in place

 

[Xilefi]

Our fourth slate for the Viability Rankings dropped (possibly the last one before the transition to the Ruins of Alph), and they're now updated!

Rises:

• Celebi (to A-)
• Cresselia (new, to C)
• Empoleon (to B-)
• Gastrodon (to B-)
• Medicham (new, to B-)
• Quagsire (to B)
• Roserade (to B+)
• Shaymin (to B)
• Togekiss (to A-)

Drops:

• Donphan (to B-)
• Feraligatr (to A-)
• Garchomp (to A+)
• Latias (to A+)
• Magnezone (to B+)
• Milotic (to B-)
• Mismagius (to C)
• Nidoking (to A-)
• Salamence (to B)
• Slowbro (to B+)
• Slowking (to B-)
• Suicune (to A-)
• Tyranitar (to B-)

Big thanks to Lalaya for all they do for the tier !
Thanks to dex and Lalaya for having already and in advance answered some questions. Here is my fair contribution.

As a disclaimer, I want to say that I've personally and I do think other fellow members have done the same try to temperate the value we give to each pokemon to try to have a better view of the VR list, Garchomp and Latias are an example of that. Also, remember that even if we speak as one, we are still multiple players and we might have different points of view on things.

That being said, BDSP OU leans since the very beginning towards offense and I do think that we have reached a full cycle of the metagame post Latios ban. After Latios ban, we entered an era where bulkier stuff where more prominent, hunting slower builds but struggles against highly geared offensive teams that we're observing a resurgence against what Stall is better. Nidoking, Crawdaunt and Suicune, between others, showcase it well as Dex explained.

Though, it doesn't change the metagame drastically in terms of viability and the rises and drops mostly show the adaptation of the metagame towards the new stuff we got along the way, mainly Celebi. I can see it reaching another level of viability in the future if the trend continues like this as it keeps pushing away water mons while being a lot of annoyance for Volt Switch user like Rotom-Wash. For example, Milotic is in that sense a victim of it as its niche is less needed, Azumarill and Feraligatr both dropped if we look at the last two VR slates from A+ to A and A-. To a far lesser extent, Gastro follows that logic (even if I personally despise it and prefer Quasire as a Water Absorb pokemon by a lot).

About Togekiss, I would consider it as a sleeper pick since the very beginning and it's constant progression since the first slate is more a bias than anything at the start. In other words, it reaches A- only now because it started B.

 

[VannAccessible]

Man, I’m here to tell you, Nidoking dropping because of the stall mu is shortsighted, as the King’s customizability is second to none. Nido can in fact obliterate stall with a mixed set, and I’m not talking about sneaking in Focus Punch to snipe Blissey either, which I always found to be unfavorable as it gets derailed by Protect scouting.

By forgoing speed and investing into both Attack and Special attack, Nido becomes impossible to switch into. Now I run this set with Trick Room, which also allows Nido to also handle offense. However, Nido’s 85 base speed is already fast enough to tear stall up, no TR required. Granted, in forgoing speed, you lose the ability to naturally outspeed Gliscor, Rotom and Heatran, but what you get in return is a mon that cannot be swapped into.

Mixed Nido Stall Crusher:

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
- Earth Power
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam
- Sucker Punch

EP 2 shots Slowbro, Forretress and Scizor (who rarely runs Sp Def since Latios left the tier), and hits the steels like Heatran, Jirachi, and Empoleon. Also your strongest option against defensive leaning Milotic, Poliwrath, Quagsire and Gastrodon, without having to run unneeded coverage.

The physical stab of Poison Jab 2 shots easily dedicated switchins like Blissey, Slowking, Rotom W, who would otherwise easily wall Nido, as well as various dragons like Latias. PJ also OHKOs Clefable, Calm Mind be damned. It’s also handy for hitting bulky grasses as well like Tangrowth, Shaymin and Roserade.

Ice Beam murders Gliscor, Tangrowth (again), and hits the dragons even harder, nuff said. It also 2 shots Skarmory without needing Tbolt or Flamethrower.

Last slot is customizeable, you could go Flamethrower if you want to OHKO Scizor or Tbolt to hit bulky waters harder, but I feel like this is redundant with the above coverage. Personally, I like Sucker Punch to offset the lack of speed EVs and help the offense MU, by letting Nidoking snipe weakened threats and hit Latias, Starmie, Azelf and Alakazam hard despite them being faster. If you want to lean even harder into screwing over Stall, Taunt could also be an option.

 

[Xilefi]

Man, I’m here to tell you, Nidoking dropping because of the stall mu is shortsighted, as the King’s customizability is second to none. Nido can in fact obliterate stall with a mixed set, and I’m not talking about sneaking in Focus Punch to snipe Blissey either, which I always found to be unfavorable as it gets derailed by Protect scouting.

By forgoing speed and investing into both Attack and Special attack, Nido becomes impossible to switch into. Now I run this set with Trick Room, which also allows Nido to also handle offense. However, Nido’s 85 base speed is already fast enough to tear stall up, no TR required. Granted, in forgoing speed, you lose the ability to naturally outspeed Gliscor, Rotom and Heatran, but what you get in return is a mon that cannot be swapped into.

Mixed Nido Stall Crusher:

Nidoking (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 SpA
Brave Nature
- Earth Power
- Poison Jab
- Ice Beam
- Sucker Punch

EP 2 shots Slowbro, Forretress and Scizor (who rarely runs Sp Def since Latios left the tier), and hits the steels like Heatran, Jirachi, and Empoleon. Also your strongest option against defensive leaning Milotic, Poliwrath, Quagsire and Gastrodon, without having to run unneeded coverage.

The physical stab of Poison Jab 2 shots easily dedicated switchins like Blissey, Slowking, Rotom W, who would otherwise easily wall Nido, as well as various dragons like Latias. PJ also OHKOs Clefable, Calm Mind be damned. It’s also handy for hitting bulky grasses as well like Tangrowth, Shaymin and Roserade.

Ice Beam murders Gliscor, Tangrowth (again), and hits the dragons even harder, nuff said. It also 2 shots Skarmory without needing Tbolt or Flamethrower.

Last slot is customizeable, you could go Flamethrower if you want to OHKO Scizor or Tbolt to hit bulky waters harder, but I feel like this is redundant with the above coverage. Personally, I like Sucker Punch to offset the lack of speed EVs and help the offense MU, by letting Nidoking snipe weakened threats and hit Latias, Starmie, Azelf and Alakazam hard despite them being faster. If you want to lean even harder into screwing over Stall, Taunt could also be an option.

I won't argue about the effectiveness of the set against stall. It might do it, it might not. Thing is, it is not and it is not the place to talk about this question. Destroying any specific style is not that difficult, especially stall in BDSP OU. It doesn't tell anything about the viability, it just tells it is match-up fishy. I can say with the upmost certainty that a Nidoking without any EVs investment in speed has no viability in current metagame as a whole.

 

[igiveuponaname]

Just some quick VR opinions.

S- -> S: This nomination and the next one are more about my view of the S rank than anything else. In my opinion, for a mon to be S rank, it should: have a good variety of viable sets that can let it fulfill a variety of roles on a team, be able to fit on a wide variety of teams due to said variety in viable sets, be a considerable presence both in the builder and in battle, and be able to perform consistently. Heatran checks all of those boxes and then some, it is such an amazing glue mon that can fill so many holes for so many teams and is truly a mon you cannot go wrong with. In regards to the current meta, physically defensive sets are a good option for teams that want a Weavile switch-in that isn't passive like Skarmory or Defog mixed defense Scizor, and can potentially cripple Weavile thanks to Flame Body burns. I've also become a big fan of Will-O-Wisp sets recently as a means of crippling offensive switch-ins like Garchomp, Azumarill, and Tyranitar, as well as forcing progress on bulkier mons by nullifying leftovers. Speaking of burns, having positive matchups against every Heal Bell/Aromatherapy user, as well as every Natural Cure mon with the exception of Starmie, makes it a very good spreader of burns in this metagame. Since some Weavile have started using Beat Up as a means of softening up Heatran without risking a Flame Body burn, spreading status to the opposing team members is very helpful in weakening both Weavile's Beat Up and the other team's dangerous threats directly. In summary, I think Heatran is worthy of being S rank because of its amazing power, utility, flexibility, and splashability, but more specifically because of how useful physically defensive and Will-O-Wisp sets are at spreading burns and forcing progress in this metagame.

S -> S-: Once again, this is more about how I view the S rank than about Weavile's viability. By far the most threatening mon in the tier, but the lack of set variance (Choice Band pretty much being the only viable set) and not fitting on as many team styles as Heatran means it doesn't quite hit that S ranking for me.

S- -> A+: I haven't seen this mon as S- ever since Celebi was added to the tier. Scarf sets have a good and reliable Trick absorber + revenge killer in Scarf Celebi, defensive sets are too reliant on leftovers recovery to be a reliable defensive option (and are thus vulnerable to passive damage) imo, and the circuit playoffs had us see a slight increase in mixed Garchomp which doesn't care about getting burned by Will-O-Wisp and demolishes Washtom with Draco Meteor. That being said VoltTurn and Bulky Offense teams are still strong and Washtom is an excellent choice for these teams, and Trick can be very useful for dealing with bulkier teams. Rotom-Wash is still a very good mon in this meta, but I don't think it's been S- rank material for quite some time now.

B+ -> B: Much worse than everything else in B+. It has very little in the ways of offensive pressure outside of Doom Desire; which while it is nice for helping to enable the dragons on DragMag teams, it shows how most of Jirachi's offensive utility is only helpful to these seldom seen team styles. Attempts to deviate from its support role on DragMag would show just much trouble Jirachi has making progress in a metagame filled with the likes of Heatran, Garchomp, Rotom-Wash, Gliscor, and plenty more who can easily come in and threaten it. Admittedly I'm not very fond of this mon, but I won't nominate it to drop further than B since its solid defensive typing and stats let it act as a useful glue for DragMag teams, as well as a good switch-in to the likes of Latias, Starmie, Clefable, Scarf Staraptor, and the myriad of Grass types in the tier.

A- -> S+ : Torture Skittyrox.

 

[Tuthur]

I've won and made finals of the lattest BDSP tours, so I'd felt like sharing my thoughts on the VR.

Weavile is the single most threatening Pokemon in the tier, but there isn't such a gap between it and the rest of the tier. I would move the S- Pokemon to S.
Gliscor is too high. Garchomp has been my prefered Ground-type in most teams because Gliscor often has a 4mss and instead of doing multiple things well, it ends up doing them all wrong. It is still a phenomenal Pokemon, don't get me wrong, but Garchomp's ability to fit both SR and SD makes it usually easier to fit into teams and consistently make progress.
I feel like Rotom-W initial placement was a consequence of Gliscor being the most used Pokemon in the tier. In practice, I feel like Rotom-Wash gets too quickly worn down switching repeatidly into Scizor's U-turn, Weavile's move, Heatran's Magma Storm, and Garchomp's Dragon Claw. I just fail to see it above other defensive monsters like Clefable and Starmie.

tldr: , S- -> A+; , S- -> S

A+ -> S
Latias is just amazing, there is no way it isn't S-rank. I think people initally failed to see how many options this thing has. It is not limited to act as a pseudo Latios with Choice Specs and offensive Calm Mind. I've successfully used more utility based sets with Defog and or Calm Mind, and it worked fine. Latias is one of the easiest to fit and most splashable Pokemon in the tier, and I don't see much difference between it and Heatran when it comes to bring awesome utility with great offensive pressure and defensive synergy.

A+ -> A-
I've almost not faced any Alakazam in the lattest tournaments and I don't remember using it either. This Pokemon just suffers too much from its lack of defensive utility and complete inability to take a hit. It wants both Focus Sash and Life Orb to work, and ends only working in HO so its place is with the other HO mons like Azelf and Dnite.

A -> A-
Its place is also with the other HO mon.

A -> A-
While building, I've almost never found the occasion to fit it into teams. Azumarill is almost always superior because of its defensive utility for similar wallbreaking capacities. Being a check to the likes of Garchomp, Latias, and Infernape is far more valuable in my opinion than being able to click Knock Off on very limited occasions.

A- -> A
The defensive capacities of both Grass-types are quite underrated imo. Having a Spore absorber that can take on Breloom's moves is near mandatory to me lol, and they do it much better than Gliscor which can struggle against some sets and isn't as good as before as I stated above. The pool of mon these two answers is just amazing; Celebi deals with Rotom-Wash, Garchomp, some Latias and Starmie sets, and Azumarill just to name a few, while Tangrowth walls Crawdaunt, Feraligatr, Rotom-Wash, and Azumarill. They are far from passive with a lot of utility both, Tangrowth being the most reliable item remover in the tier and spreading status easily, while Celebi got U-turn, T-Wave, Healing Wish, and Stealth Rock to round up its team.

B+ -> A
Oh my god, why is it ranked so low??? Mew is so scary, it has almost 100% winrate in Championship iirc. It is a nightmare to scout because of having a billion of different sets that are all equally good. Nasty Plot sets farm on bulkier teams, All-Out Attacker is a pain for BO, defensive sets can fit both in fat balance and bulky offense, and I am pretty sure that we can keep finding new sets for it.

C -> B
This tier got no Ghost-resist and Mismagius is the only Ghost-type, it is fast and strong, got coverage for Scizor and Weavile. I feel like it was placed low at first because it wasn't Gengar, but it is for sure better than Espeon or Weezing.

 

[Lalaya]

New year, new viability ranking update! Fifth slate is here, and probably going a bit slower with these for obvious reasons.

Rises:

• Garchomp (from A+ to S-)
• Latias (from A+ to S-)
• Celebi (from A- to A+)
• Mew (from B+ to A)
• Tangrowth (from A- to A)
• Entei (from B- to B)
• Milotic (from B- to B)
• Slowking (from B- to B)
• Mismagius (from C to B)
• Kingdra (from C to B-)
• Zapdos (from UR to B-)
• Aggron (from UR to B-)
• Torkoal (from UR to C)
• Volbeat (from UR to C)

Drops:

• Gliscor (from S- to A+)
• Rotom-Wash (from S- to A+)
• Crawdaunt (from A to A-)
• Lucario (from A to A-)
• Alakazam (from A+ to B+)
• Blissey (from A- to B+)
• Jirachi (from B+ to B)
• Poliwrath (from B to B-)
• Shaymin (from B to B-)
• Cloyster (from B- to C)
• Cresselia (from C to UR)
• Rotom-Heat (from C to UR)

As usual, if you want to ask any questions to us, please feel free! :]