OU Beedrill

Vertex

my beautiful dark twisted curry

qc: pk gaming / gary / zamrock
gp: kris / fireflame479
status: Done

[OVERVIEW]

With Adaptability and the ridiculous offensive stats that Beedrill gains upon Mega Evolution, it performs as a fearsome U-turn user that forces in slower checks such as Zapdos and Toxapex for teammates to take advantage of. Mega Beedrill's unique movepool lets it support the team in various ways such as wallbreaking with Swords Dance, trapping with Pursuit, and even setting up Toxic Spikes. However, Mega Beedrill's niche fits poorly with its typing, as it gives it a nasty weakness to Stealth Rock, which is made worse when Spikes is taken into account. Mega Beedrill also struggles in a metagame where Landorus-T runs rampant.

[SET]
name: Offensive Pivot
move 1: U-turn
move 2: Poison Jab
move 3: Drill Run
move 4: Swords Dance / Knock Off / Pursuit
item: Beedrillite
ability: Swarm
nature: Jolly
evs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

U-turn is a powerful move that provides free turns for strong wallbreakers such as Tapu Lele and Kyurem-B because of how Mega Beedrill tends to force in slower Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Toxapex. Poison Jab is Mega Beedrill's strongest attack, easily 2HKOing Pokemon such as Mega Charizard X and Tornadus-T. It even has a 30% chance to poison, meaning that it has applications as a fail-safe move. Drill Run is mandatory, as Magearna, Mega Mawile, Heatran, Magnezone, and specially defensive Toxapex would otherwise wall Mega Beedrill. Swords Dance is the preferred move in the fourth slot to allow it to break Pokemon such as Zapdos and Toxapex while making it a more immediate threat to defensive teams. Knock Off can be used for removing items such as Shed Shell, which is instrumental for teammates such as Magnezone. Finally, Pursuit can be used in the last slot to trap Gengar and get vital chip damage on targets such as Tapu Lele and Heatran.

Set Details
========

Maximum Attack EVs are necessary to hit as hard as possible. A Jolly nature is mandatory, as Mega Beedrill cannot outpace Pokemon such as Tapu Koko and slower Choice Scarf users such as Tapu Bulu, Hoopa-U, and Heatran with an Adamant nature. Swarm is used over Sniper to give Mega Alakazam and Porygon2 useless abilities if Beedrill were to be used as death fodder prior to Mega Evolution.

Usage Tips
========

U-turn should be used most of the time because Mega Beedrill's purpose is to provide free switches. Mega Beedrill will naturally become a threat, as it wears down its checks with the combination of Knock Off and U-turn, so it is recommended to treat it as a supplemental team member more than a standalone Pokemon. Analyze the risk and reward of clicking Poison Jab; it can be the difference between getting a KO and losing momentum, the latter being the opposite of what Mega Beedrill should be doing. Similarly, try not to gamble too much with Pursuit when deciding between using it and Drill Run.

Swords Dance should be used in matchups where teams rely on pivoting in to beat Mega Beedrill with Pokemon such as Ferrothorn and Zapdos. It is also important for forcing Skarmory in when playing against stall; many players will be unwilling to bring it in and will just recover with their Mega Sableye or Toxapex, since going into Skarmory completely saps momentum, especially if Stealth Rock is taken into account. Swords Dance completely eliminates this factor in actual gameplay, making it important because wallbreakers such as Garchomp cannot set up on Mega Sableye for example. Despite the weakness to Rock, prioritize getting Mega Beedrill in even if Stealth Rock is up; Mega Beedrill is amazing at maintaining momentum, and entry hazards can always be removed when it actually needs its health. Remember that Mega Beedrill can still come in on Pokemon like Tapu Fini, Tangrowth, Tapu Bulu, and Clefable, so take advantage of them.

Team Options
========

Magnezone is an excellent teammate, since it traps Mega Scizor, Celesteela, and Ferrothorn, Pokemon that would otherwise comfortably come in on Mega Beedrill. Mega Beedrill synergizes well with Magnezone, as it can remove Skarmory's Shed Shell with Knock Off and destroy Heatran with Drill Run, which are Pokemon that Magnezone cannot trap (I'm surprised the VoltTurn core isn't mentioned here but it's whatever. Add it if you want to.). Even if entry hazard control is difficult to make use of due to the prevalence of offensive hazard setters and spinblockers such as Greninja and Gengar, respectively, it can still be a necessity, especially late-game. More offensively inclined options of hazard removal are preferred, so Kartana and Latios fill this role quite nicely.

Without a solid wallbreaker, Mega Beedrill is useless. It is great at giving free switches, so look no further for teammates than some of the deadliest threats in the tier, such as Tapu Lele, Kyurem-B, Hoopa-U, Greninja, Choice Band Zygarde, Gengar, and Crawdaunt. Having hazards up makes the game much quicker, so Spikes Greninja, regardless of its ability, and Stealth Rock users such as Landorus-T and Heatran make for great teammates. Finally, Rotom-W forms a potent VoltTurn core with Mega Beedrill, as Rotom-W can pivot into Pokemon such as Landorus-T and Mega Pinsir, proceeding to force them out and gain momentum with Volt Switch. Other VoltTurn teammates include Magearna and Tapu Koko. Ice Beam Magearna, in particular, can lure in Landorus-T and KO it, especially if it is holding a Shuca Berry.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

X-Scissor, Fell Stinger, and Tailwind are all appealing options, but they fail to address any of the issues Mega Beedrill currently has. Mega Beedrill should more often use U-turn than Pursuit for chip damage, as the loss in momentum is detrimental to the types of teams it is on. Toxic Spikes is an option to put pressure on teams that rely on defensive cores with Tangrowth, Zygarde, or Tapu Fini.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Stealth Rock**: Mega Beedrill uses U-turn frequently to keep up momentum, so damage from Stealth Rock wears it down quickly.

**Bulky Ground-types**: Landorus-T completely walls Mega Beedrill, setting up Stealth Rock or using it as setup bait if it uses a different move. Rocky Helmet Garchomp and Hippowdon can punish Mega Beedrill for using U-turn. Gliscor also walls Beedrill, but it has to be wary of Knock Off if its Toxic Orb is not activated.

**Priority and Choice Scarf Users**: Mega Beedrill's abysmal Defense means it can be easily picked off by priority from the likes of Mega Mawile and Zygarde. Choice Scarf users such as Garchomp and Greninja can also easily revenge kill it.

**Non-Ground-weak Steel-types**: If Magnezone is not paired with Mega Beedrill, non-Ground-weak Steel-types are universal switch-ins. Mega Scizor, physically defensive Ferrothorn, Celesteela, and Skarmory completely wall Mega Beedrill, as they take little to no damage from Drill Run.

**Toxapex**: Specially defensive variants are softer checks because they take a ton from Drill Run, but they can still usually force Mega Beedrill out with the threat of a Scald burn.
 
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GMars

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I would recommend throwing tailwind in OO as it's one of the only tools it has over Pheromosa, as you can set up a sacrificial tailwind for a wallbreaking teammate like tapu lele late game.
 

Leo

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Where's the "use Pheromosa" in Usage Tips?
On a serious topic, is Fell Stinger actually worth OO? I'm not a big supporter of the move because it's both hard to pull off and really easy to either rkill or keep walling with lando-t or some other mon. I would never consider it on a serious team unless I don't need any of the other moves in OO which is rather unlikely considering stuff like Drill Run and Tailwind
 
If you wanna convince people to use M-Bee, you really need to make SD it's own set. If you're gonna use Beedrill like a slower Pheromosa without Ice Beam, then you might as well use the latter instead.

Also mention that due to it's typing and surprising Sp. Def. it can conceivably tank a special hit and use Fini as setup bait (it's a 3KO at best with surf).

Not sure if Fell Stinger deserves to be in OO, considering you need the oponent to purposely sacrifice a mon for the 3+ boost.
 
With Lele being an actual thing, I'm thinking a Swords Dance set backed by Psychic Terrain to negate priority is a very realistic prospect. It's just bringing in Mega Bee would be difficult unless you foddered Lele or something else on your team, considering they're both quite physically frail. Perhaps Terrain Extender becomes a good item for Lele in this core?
 

AccidentalGreed

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I agree that Swords Dance sounds like a fun and dangerous option, but I would advise against theorymonning (terrain extender isn't a commonly used item on Tapu Lele, for example) unless you people can tell the class exactly how the set fares and operates in the current meta. QD Pheromosa, for example, works because it already forces out threats and isn't checked by scarfers or Intimidate mons.

also my man if it's pre-GP joke it's fine but no it's not a shitty phero, just say it compromises the mega slot (therefore you can't bonk shit with mega metagross) and has close competition with the turkish fashion model
 
Well, maybe it isn't exactly shitty Phero, but why am I using this thing over Phero if not for an SD set? Factoring in Phero running LO/Specs, they both hit about as hard, Phero is a little faster, Mega Bee has more special bulk, but they both have garbage bulk in general. Both U Turn spam, both have less than desirable STAB typings, and you hit it on the head with the mega slot being used

So why am I using Mega Bee and taking up my mega slot at all? Well, an SD set is something Phero doesn't have. Knock Off is cool so Mega Bee can fight Ghosts that wall Phero's STAB. I'm thinking a set along the lines of U Turn/Poison Jab/Knock Off/SD. Otherwise, why use it over Phero? If not for SD, I'd rather just run Phero with some other Mega that covers a role I haven't filled yet.

Fell stinger seems kinda niche, and would be a waste of a moveslot 9/10 times. Even with Mega Bee's horrendous bulk, at least an SD set doesn't depend on your opponent foddering something at the exact right time.
 

Leo

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Well, maybe it isn't exactly shitty Phero, but why am I using this thing over Phero if not for an SD set? Factoring in Phero running LO/Specs, they both hit about as hard, Phero is a little faster, Mega Bee has more special bulk, but they both have garbage bulk in general. Both U Turn spam, both have less than desirable STAB typings, and you hit it on the head with the mega slot being used

So why am I using Mega Bee and taking up my mega slot at all? Well, an SD set is something Phero doesn't have. Knock Off is cool so Mega Bee can fight Ghosts that wall Phero's STAB. I'm thinking a set along the lines of U Turn/Poison Jab/Knock Off/SD. Otherwise, why use it over Phero? If not for SD, I'd rather just run Phero with some other Mega that covers a role I haven't filled yet.

Fell stinger seems kinda niche, and would be a waste of a moveslot 9/10 times. Even with Mega Bee's horrendous bulk, at least an SD set doesn't depend on your opponent foddering something at the exact right time.
Phero has Quiver Dance which makes it hit harder on the special side and makes it almost impossible to rkill due to its absurd Speed Tier. It also snowballs pretty quickly thanks to Beast Boost and is harder to stop because as I said 600 Speed at +1 can only be rkilled by Priority or Scarfmosa. SD Bee on the other hand is rkilled by every single Scarfer I can think of, can't break past most of its sturdier checks (even at +2) and its poor bulk+weakness to hazards make it suboptimal imo. You could even compare it to the rare SD Weavile from last set with a better Speed tier but lack of priority to avoid being rkilled
 

Martin

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SD Beedrill is bad; the set listed atm is the only "good" set (Mega Beedrill's arse in the current meta, but for the sake of argument) 'cause it actually does something semi-consistent, whereas SD Bee just depends massively on matchup (moreso than this thing already does) and just generally isn't very consistently effective compared to the pivot set listed.

Pursuit is the biggest thing it has going for it over Phero: not SD. Beyond this, it mostly just comes down to its Jab being stronger and a couple of other hyper team-specific or otherwise knitpicky things.
 

p2

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beedrill should have an sd set and i would argue it being the first and only set. you can just swap the 4th move around with shit like pursuit and the types of teams its fitting on is gonna be able to accommodate beedrill and its lack of knock off to remove shed shells anyway

set is uturn pjab drill sd btw
 
So, what we've established is that SD Bee sucks, which to some extent I agree with, and that the only notable thing Mega Bee has over Phero is Pursuit, which is going to be piss weak if my target stays in anyway.

So that once again begs the question, why am I using this thing over Phero?

Why not run Phero and a more useful Mega, like Megagross, Mega Zam, etc

Could Mega Bee sink to UU again this gen?
 

AccidentalGreed

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So, what we've established is that SD Bee sucks, which to some extent I agree with, and that the only notable thing Mega Bee has over Phero is Pursuit, which is going to be piss weak if my target stays in anyway.

So that once again begs the question, why am I using this thing over Phero?

Why not run Phero and a more useful Mega, like Megagross, Mega Zam, etc

Could Mega Bee sink to UU again this gen?
I think you oughtta take your discussion here or on the meta thread as this thread is just discussing OU viable options to put on the official analysis rather than debating its usefulness vs Pheromosa or its tier placement. Mega Beedrill is considered at least minimally OU viable and therefore is getting some set. Your clear indecisiveness and lack of meta knowledge on the matter isn't helping any.
 
EDIT: Crap, I thought I was in the "discussion" pages. I somehow didn't realize I was in the analysis forums... ah well, I'll leave my post up anyway.

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 207-243 (32.2 - 37.8%) -- 94.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 226-266 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Pheromosa has the all-powerful High-Jump Kick, but with Gengar and Marowak running around so freely, is that really a move that sees much usage? Instead, Pheromosa seems to use U-Turn a lot.

Beedrill's STAB+Adaptability U-Turn is a touch stronger than Life-orb Pheromosa's. Furthermore, Beedrill's superior bulk (wow, did I just say that?) actually gets Beedrill a few key survival points:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill-Mega: 201-243 (74.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Pheromosa: 333-396 (117.6 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

---------

Honestly, this mon plays grossly differently than Pheromosa. Knock Off and Pursuit make this `mon completely different. Pheromosa is basically countered by Marowak. Beedrill traps and permanently deals with Marowak.

If anything, Pheromosa + Beedril might be able to form some sort of bug-spam core, since Beedrill is actually effective at removing a few Pheromosa counters / checks. U-Turn spam snowballs into itself, while Beedrill can effectively pursuit-trap Gengar / Marowak and give Pheromosa the room to HJK Spam.
 
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EDIT: Crap, I thought I was in the "discussion" pages. I somehow didn't realize I was in the analysis forums... ah well, I'll leave my post up anyway.

252 Atk Life Orb Pheromosa U-turn vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 207-243 (32.2 - 37.8%) -- 94.8% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 226-266 (35.2 - 41.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Pheromosa has the all-powerful High-Jump Kick, but with Gengar and Marowak running around so freely, is that really a move that sees much usage? Instead, Pheromosa seems to use U-Turn a lot.

Beedrill's STAB+Adaptability U-Turn is a touch stronger than Life-orb Pheromosa's. Furthermore, Beedrill's superior bulk (wow, did I just say that?) actually gets Beedrill a few key survival points:

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Beedrill-Mega: 201-243 (74.1 - 89.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja-Ash Water Shuriken (20 BP) (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 32 SpD Pheromosa: 333-396 (117.6 - 139.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

---------

Honestly, this mon plays grossly differently than Pheromosa. Knock Off and Pursuit make this `mon completely different. Pheromosa is basically countered by Marowak. Beedrill traps and permanently deals with Marowak.

If anything, Pheromosa + Beedril might be able to form some sort of bug-spam core, since Beedrill is actually effective at removing a few Pheromosa counters / checks. U-Turn spam snowballs into itself, while Beedrill can effectively pursuit-trap Gengar / Marowak and give Pheromosa the room to HJK Spam.
The issue with that is Mega Bee's Knock Off barely misses the OHKO unless you run Adamant, which obviously isn't a good idea. It's cool if you intend to sweep later with Phero or an electric type like Xurkitree later, but Mega Bee loses to full health Alolan Maro 1 on 1

I did mention earlier that Mega Bee has garbage bulk, but is still somewhat bulkier than Phero. Is that really much of a selling point to using it? I'd say yes in a heartbeat, but opportunity cost with the usage of your Mega really sucks.

Edit: I've spent some time laddering with a balance team built around SD Mega Bee, and I haven't hadn't it happen once where I setup and got to go for the sweep with Mega Bee. The team itself has been moderately successful, but SD has been more or less a waste of a moveslot thus far.
 
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I agree with your sentiment.

I've spent a few days labbing with a "bug spam core" of Phero and Mega Bee, and even though my results won't matter with Phero likely being banned soon, I'd like to note I felt like Pursuit was more effective for it to be running than SD.

With Phero potentially being out of the picture, we can also look forward to reduced competition for a team slot for Mega Bee.

Edit:

Showcasing Pursuit's usefulness:

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-552158972
 
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Ash Borer

I've heard they're short of room in hell
Thoughts on 'mence as a partner? Beedrill is pretty good at bringing in stuff like Celesteela, Lando, and Ferro, forcing them to take hazard damage, a neutral knock off denying leftover recovery and then a follow-up u-turn for extra chip, ensuring that Salamence can break past these mons with a boost later in the match. Catching a Scarf Terrakion, Keldeo or Garchomp with a Knock Off on an attempted U-turn absorb (garchomop's rough skin to punish) also seems like a plausible scenario.

252 Atk Beedrill-Mega Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 114-135 (28.6 - 33.9%) -- 99% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega U-turn vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 41-49 (10.3 - 12.3%) -- possibly the worst move ever
+1 252 Atk Salamence Supersonic Skystrike (190 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Celesteela: 232-273 (58.2 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

you barely even need rocks for Celest. Just have a grass type in the back to deny leech seed.
 
If anything, Pheromosa + Beedril might be able to form some sort of bug-spam core, since Beedrill is actually effective at removing a few Pheromosa counters / checks. U-Turn spam snowballs into itself, while Beedrill can effectively pursuit-trap Gengar / Marowak and give Pheromosa the room to HJK Spam.
Reminds me a lot of Persian from Gen 1 OU. They fulfill similar roles but using both together is an option to wear down each other's checks. The difference is that Pheremosa isn't anywhere near as oppressive as Gen 1 Tauros so I'm not sure that it is worth it to do so. An Offensive core of Tapu Lele, M-Beedrill and Pheremosa could facilitate this. If Pheremosa manages to stay in OU you could put it in Team Options. I would expand on the Tapu Lele section of TO regardless as Psychic Terrain is welcome for Beedrill and the side effect of boosting Psychic moves matters less since if it gets hit with one it is probably toast anyway with its defenses. Doesn't hurt that no Psychic types particularly want to switch into M-Beedrill.
 
String Shot is in OO? When will it be better to use that instead of attacking, or just U Turning out? I'm thinking if we're worried about Mega Bee being setup fodder, we have to look at what can actually set up on it to begin with

Defensive Lando doesn't care about String Shot

Either Lando, really, could just setup Stealth Rock freely and switch

Double Dance Lando can just spam Rock Polish after SDing

Pokémon on stall who wall Mega Bee like Skarmory or Toxapex won't care about String Shot, and will just setup entry hazards

Feeling like String Shot would be even more of a waste of a moveslot than Swords Dance. If we're playing Mega Bee up as something that gather some momentum and brings things in for free, it doesn't really help it do that

Also, if we're suspecting Pheromosa and it might get banned, wouldn't it be more time efficient to hold off on publishing this until we figure out what happens?

Last off, you made a mistake under set details when you said Mega Bee can't outspeed Scarfed Tapu Koko with an Adamant nature. Perhaps you meant Tapu Bulu or Lele? I don't think Jolly lets it outrun Scarfed Lele anyway, and you already note Bulu as one of the Pokémon Mega Bee can switch in on, so I'm not sure why outrunning it would be particularly important. I do agree, though, outrunning all variants of Heatran would be necessary.
 
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I was saying, for convenience sake, if Pheromosa gets banned, wouldn't it be annoying to go edit out "It is mostly outclassed by Pheromosa"? I dunno, just some food for thought.

It seems as though an array of threats Bee could trap could just as easily stay in on Pursuit and hit it hard. So it would be, at best, extremely prediction reliant. I can see it as an "Other Options" sort of thing.
 
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PK Gaming

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- Hazard control, despite the state it is currently in, is recommended. More offensively inclined options of hazard removed are preferred. Kartana, Pheromosa, and Latios fill this role quite nicely.
I think you should elaborate on this, since unless the reader is familiar with the current metagame, they won't know what you're talking about.

Otherwise this is solid

1/3

Nice work
 

Gary

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Poison Jab is Beedrill's strongest attack, capable of 2HKOing Mega Venusaur and Chansey after Stealth Rock. It also annihilates Tapu Fini, one of the main reasons to use it over Pheromosa.
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 232 HP / 180+ Def Venusaur-Mega: 128-152 (35.6 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Adaptability Beedrill-Mega Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 258-304 (40.1 - 47.3%) -- 47.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Yeah that's kinda shaky, especially with Venusaur. Also if someone is running 252 HP / 252 Def (which many people still do) it definitely doesn't 2HKO. I would mention something else here, because that statement oversells its power.

You really need to expand your C&C sections out a bit. Add a steel-type section with Pokemon such as Celesteela, Skarmory, and Mega Scizor being the primary Pokemon giving it trouble. I know you are insinuating that it's always going to be paired with Zone, but regardless, they still need to be pointed out. Change "Stealth Rock" section to Entry Hazards, because SR aren't the only thing that bother Beedrill, because if Spikes or Webs are on the field, it's heavily neutered.

Replace Landorus-T section with just bulky Ground-types. Obviously stress Landorus-T more than anything, but also Rocky Helmet Garchomp, Gliscor, and Hippo. I know Hippo isn't that relevant, but it's still something to keep in mind. Make sure to mention how Lando commonly carries RH, which heavily punishes Beedrill from U-turning freely.

I'd also mention Toxapex in C&C as well. SpD is annoyed by it more, but phys def variants can still avoid the 2HKO from Drill Run if it's lacking SD, and can just proceed to Scald burn it. It's definitely worth mentioning.

Other than that, nice job. QC 2/3
 
Hi everyone, ^^

I feel Endeavor should get special mention, because it allows Mega Beedrill to wear down its defensive counters when weakened. As you already know, M-Beedrill is incredibly fragile and easy to wear down due to its susceptibility to entry-hazards and the like. Using this move could allow it to turn its weakness into a formidable strength e.g. Toxapex, a would-be counter; is mowed downed by the combination of Endeavor and Drill Run (as it switches in, assuming M-Beedrill's HP is less 38% of its health).

It seems situational but considering its weakness to SR and low HP, it's a creative option worth exploring, imo. What do you guys think? ^^

Edit: The detail's in my second comment, but I'll add the simulation I made on showdown to better illustrate my thoughts...
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-558304763


What do you think? It seems like a good option in my book ^^
 
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Hi everyone, ^^

I feel Endeavor should get special mention, because it allows Mega Beedrill to wear down its defensive counters when weakened. As you already know, M-Beedrill is incredibly fragile and easy to wear down due to its susceptibility to entry-hazards and the like. Using this move could allow it to turn its weakness into a formidable strength e.g. Toxapex, a would-be counter; is mowed downed by the combination of Endeavor and Drill Run (as it switches in, assuming M-Beedrill's HP is less 38% of its health).

It seems situational but considering its weakness to SR and low HP, it's a creative option worth exploring, imo. What do you guys think? ^^
Personally, I believe it could warrant a look in OO, but what do you replace to add Endeavor? You're either helpless against most relevant Steel types without Drill Run, or lose a lot of utility in Knock Off. Let's not forget, Mega Bee is not very hard to OHKO, but it's weakness to SR combined with how often it would be coming in and U Turning out makes Endeavor interesting, just difficult to fit on the moveset.
 
Personally, I believe it could warrant a look in OO, but what do you replace to add Endeavor? You're either helpless against most relevant Steel types without Drill Run, or lose a lot of utility in Knock Off. Let's not forget, Mega Bee is not very hard to OHKO, but it's weakness to SR combined with how often it would be coming in and U Turning out makes Endeavor interesting, just difficult to fit on the moveset.
Hi MSC Knightmare, ^^

Thanks for the reply and I couldn't agree more!

To summarise the benefits of using Endeavor, whilst adding more points, and answering your question:

1) At low HP, it allows Mega Beedrill to remain lethal throughout the match; by breaking down defensive walls regardless of their bulk.
This can be used to pressure defensive teams and as well as its counters. Furthermore, it also stops M-Beedrill from becoming useless when burned.

2) Knock Off and Endeavor are the ideal coverage for Mega Beedrill.

The former provides utility by removing valuable items, while the latter weakens defensive walls (when M-Beedrill's HP is low).
Together, the moves can be used to great versatility; by allowing M-Beedrill to handle ground and steel type threats like Hippowdown, Magnezone, and Heatran (etc).

TL;DR (skip to turn 8)​

Now, to explain what I meant by "being used to great versatility", let's take a look at Hippowdown...

Important things to note

With Stealth Rock on the field [0 HP investment] Mega Beedrill can only switch into battle 3 times.
When this happens, it loses 75% of its HP, leaving it at at a mere 25% (68 points).

Now, realistically this criteria can easily be met, as we previously established in your quote i.e. "it's weakness to SR combined with how often it would be coming in and U Turning out makes Endeavor interesting".

Next, try to image the following scene [with the notes above taken into consideration]. You'll see how versatile and effective the combination can be:

History and conditions of the battle
...
Stealth Rock is on the field.
Mega Beedrill switched into it 3 times!
The match is [currently] between Mega Beedrill and Serperior.
Opponent, "Sheep 34" has a healthy Hippowdon in the back ready...​
vs

"The opponent switches out, expecting a Poison Jab or U-Turn from M-Beedrill."
vs

"You predict this and hit it with Endeavor! Cutting its HP down to the same as yours (68 HP), and leaving it weakened."
vs

"Mega Beedrill used Knock Off... And its down, Hippowdon fainted!"

Using Smogon's damage calculator, this is the damage done to Hippowdown, by Mega Beedrill:

Damage in percentage

Endeavor 0.2 - 0.4% [84%]
U-turn 26.6 - 31.4%
Poison Jab 15 - 17.8%
Knock Off 18.3 - 21.6%

Damage in Health Points

Endeavor (-353 HP)
U-turn (-112 to 132 HP)
Poison Jab (-63 to 75 HP)
Knock Off (-77 to 91 HP)

Endeavor cuts a targets HP to the same as Mega Beedrill, so that's 68 points. Knock Off will be enough to 1HKO, and even Poison Jab (with SR Support).


What do you think? Did I make a mistake somewhere in the calcs?

P.S. I made a simulation of the battle, but without Leftovers on Hippowdon. I used smooth Rock so it doesn't affect what I was trying to illustrate. In any case, a usual battle will probably go something like this (please skip to turn 8)...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-558304763

It might be possible to do something with Beedrill's HP; to make it more potent with Endeavor, while allowing it to switch into SR 3 times and live (I haven't checked it yet ^^).

#HailMegaBeedrill
 
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Hi MSC Knightmare, ^^

Thanks for the reply and I couldn't agree more!

To summarise the benefits of using Endeavor, whilst adding more points, and answering your question:

1) At low HP, it allows Mega Beedrill to remain lethal throughout the match; by breaking down defensive walls regardless of their bulk.
This can be used to pressure defensive teams and as well as its counters. Furthermore, it also stops M-Beedrill from becoming useless when burned.

2) Knock Off and Endeavor are the ideal coverage for Mega Beedrill.

The former provides utility by removing valuable items, while the latter weakens defensive walls (when M-Beedrill's HP is low).
Together, the moves can be used to great versatility; by allowing M-Beedrill to handle ground and steel type threat e.g. Hippowdown, Magnezone, and Heatran (etc).

Now, to explain what I meant by "being used to great versatility", let's take a look at Hippowdown...

Important things to note

With Stealth Rock on the field 0HP Mega Beedrill can only switch into battle 3 times.
When this happens, it loses 75% of its HP, leaving it at at a mere 25% (68 points).

Now, realistically this criteria can easily be met, as we previously established in your quote i.e. "it's weakness to SR combined with how often it would be coming in and U Turning out makes Endeavor interesting".

Next, try to image the following scene [with the notes above taken into consideration]. You'll see how versatile and effective the combination can be:

History and conditions of the battle
...
Stealth Rock is on the field.
Mega Beedrill switched into it 3 times!
The match is [currently] between Mega Beedrill and Serperior.
Opponent, "Sheep 34" has a healthy Hippowdon in the back, ready...​
vs

"The opponent switches out, expecting a Poison Jab or U-Turn from M-Beedrill."

vs

"You predict this and hit it with Endeavor! Cutting its HP down to the same as yours (68 HP), and leaving it weakened."
vs

"Mega Beedrill used Knock Off... And its down, Hippowdon fainted!"

Using Smogon's damage calculator, this is the damage done to Hippowdown, by Mega Beedrill:

Damage in percentage

Endeavor 0.2 - 0.4%
U-turn 26.6 - 31.4%
Poison Jab 15 - 17.8%
Knock Off 18.3 - 21.6%

Damage in Health Points

Endeavor (-353 HP)
U-turn (-112 to 132 HP)
Poison Jab (-63 to 75 HP)
Knock Off (-77 to 91 HP)

Endeavor a targets HP to the same as Mega Beedrill, so that's 68 points. Knock Off will be enough to 1HKO, and even Poison Jab (with SR Support).


What do you think? Did I make a mistake something in the calcs?

P.S. I made a simulation of the battle, but without Leftovers on Hippowdon. I used smooth Rock so it doesn't affect what I was trying to illustrate. In any case, a usual battle will probably go something like this (please skip to turn 8)...

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-558304763

It might be possible to do something with Beedrill's HP, to make it more potent with Endeavor, while allowing it to switch into SR 3 times and live (I haven't checked it yet ^^).

#HailMegaBeedrill
Wow, must compliment your ability to make a case for your belief. Well done.

I'd like to add that if, in your simulation, you had switched Mega Bee into SR one more time, it would have been left with exactly 1 HP due to the fact that it had a Stealth Rock number in its HP. Now, in this particular scenario, Hippowdon's sand would've killed it before it got the chance to fire off that Knock Off, but imagine Mega Bee is being paired with something like Landorus T or Zygarde or something that struggles to break down Hippowdon. You just opened up a clear path for them to sweep by allowing them to come in and immediately finish it off.

Imagine this for something like Skarmory or Toxapex that Mega Bee would be able to finish off the next turn.

This is a bit situational and requires very good play to pull off, so I'd still only make it an OO, but it's a fine OO at that.
 

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