Best Stats Receiver

What Is The Best Stats Receiver

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acinod

The thread is all about which Pokemon can utilize the stats it receives from baton passers most effectively. The most common baton passers I see give attack boosts such as Belly Drum Smeargle and Swords Dance Ninjask/Gliscor/Scizor. Ninjask can also pass speed and the others could also put in a Salac Berry to increase speed.

So now I am wondering, which Pokemon would be the best to receive these stat boosts and attempt to sweep.

Medicham comes to mind because it already has huge attack and all it needs the extra boost to hit Cresselia and the extra speed to outspeed those speedy Pokemons.

Rampardos is also a welcome for Ninjask's speed boosts because it has huge attack as well as Mold Breaker which helps it hit levitating Pokemon with Earthquake. All it needs was a bit of speed but that can be solved with Ninjask's Speed Boosts.

Not only Attack and Speed boosts can benefit a Pokemon but other stat boosts could also be dangerous. Giving a special wall heaps of defence could help it survive even longer and vice versa for a physical wall.

So what do you think the best stats receiver is?
 
The biggest problem is Phazers. Once Ninjask comes out, almost always does Skarm come out. If not skarm, then some other phazer (Swapert, etc. etc.) who will roar away your work.

Octillery (for sweeping) and cradily (for walling) are the two pokemon of choice for the reason that they can't be phazed.
 
Off the top of my head...

-Cradily/Octillery for obvious reasons
-Armaldo is one of the best defensive BP receivers, its a frickin powerhouse since it can still easily run a crapload of s.def/def and HP while still getting regions of 345+ attack and Swords Dance/Knock Off and an excellent double STAB. (I know this from experience)
-I suppose Ingrain users but most grass types don't make effective use of BP's.
-Garchomp or any powerful sweeper with good move coverage for offensive/speed BP's.
 
Medicham was one of the, if not the best reciever on the recieving end of Baton Passed boosts. With its monster attacl (thanks pure power), good speed (two boosts and everything is left in the dust), and awesome type covereage (Elemental Punches, Psycho Cut, Brick Break (never use High Jump Kick on a BP reciever Cham as if you miss you die).
 
Metagross makes a pretty good recipient for speed + attack, but really that could be said about any slow sweeper. For comedic relief, you could Baton Pass to Simple Bibarel or Numel and your boosts are effectively doubled.
 
I'm going to say Marowak is the best reciprient. He has uber attack(higher than Deoxys-A with an Adamant Nature and 252 Atk EVs), and is slower than a standard DDTar even with 252 Speed EVs. If Ninjask could BP Speed boosts to him, he could 6-0 a team in 6-12 turns..
 
I'd have to agree with the Simple Bibarel. REALLY easy to set up even with Ninjask, a Swords Dance counts as two, and 3 Speed Boosts count as 6! Then, Bibarel becomes a machine with Simple. Always wondered if Rollout was increased with Simple however... >_> Sadly, Intimidate nails you badly.

Anyways, Physical-Wise, Marowak, Metagross, Medicham, Rampardos, a lot of the Pokemon that might lack Speed but have Power to back them up, is usually how I BP too. Lickilicky can make a fun one to pass to as well.
 
Deoxys-A is attacking Deoxys, known before as Deoxys-F. Calling Marowak "not that good with with Speed Boosts" is calling a Pokemon with immense levels of Speed AND over 500 Attack with still reasonable defense bad, which may not be the best idea.
 
I think Lucario should replace Medicham in BP chains or even just small boosts like a +2 Speed or something. Lucario has the ability to hit on both sides, Special and Physical, and also gets great STAB from both sides. Skarmory does not like taking STAB boosted Close Combats from base 110 Attack, at +6 Attack Lucario Close Combats will OHKO everything in the game. Medicham lost its ability to hit Ghosts Super Effective, but Lucario gets Crunch to deal with the problem Dusknoirs on teams. THEN if you think something is faster, Scarfed, Endrever, etc Lucario can just ExtremeSpeed the Pokemon in question.

Lucario only needs 1 Speed boost to outspeed everything minus some Scarfers (same with Medicham), but unlike Medicham, Lucario can go Adamant and still outspeed most things, Medicham needs Jolly while Lucario can run with Adamant.

Don't want a Physical attacker? Go with Lucario's even higher Special Attack, Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon, the list keeps going of usable moves.

On top of Lucario's massive move list, the Steel typing really helps it out. I'm willing to bet people have been killed in ADV because of Tyranitar's Sand Stream was running while the opponent stalled with Protects, Ghosts, and Intimidates. Medicham would succumb eventually, with Lucario thats not the case. And I'm sure people have run into Metagross Explosions, etc when passing to something, Lucario has the ability to survive some of these attacks because of its Steel typing.

So in short, Lucario is the new Medicham.
 
zerowing said:
I think Lucario should replace Medicham in BP chains or even just small boosts like a +2 Speed or something. Lucario has the ability to hit on both sides, Special and Physical, and also gets great STAB from both sides. Skarmory does not like taking STAB boosted Close Combats from base 110 Attack, at +6 Attack Lucario Close Combats will OHKO everything in the game. Medicham lost its ability to hit Ghosts Super Effective, but Lucario gets Crunch to deal with the problem Dusknoirs on teams. THEN if you think something is faster, Scarfed, Endrever, etc Lucario can just ExtremeSpeed the Pokemon in question.

Lucario only needs 1 Speed boost to outspeed everything minus some Scarfers (same with Medicham), but unlike Medicham, Lucario can go Adamant and still outspeed most things, Medicham needs Jolly while Lucario can run with Adamant.

Don't want a Physical attacker? Go with Lucario's even higher Special Attack, Aura Sphere, Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon, the list keeps going of usable moves.

On top of Lucario's massive move list, the Steel typing really helps it out. I'm willing to bet people have been killed in ADV because of Tyranitar's Sand Stream was running while the opponent stalled with Protects, Ghosts, and Intimidates. Medicham would succumb eventually, with Lucario thats not the case. And I'm sure people have run into Metagross Explosions, etc when passing to something, Lucario has the ability to survive some of these attacks because of its Steel typing.

So in short, Lucario is the new Medicham.
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but luvario dsnt have something called pure power..thats why medicham can run jolly cause it has an ability that doubles its attack..think of a stronger choice banded item that doubles its attack,has all of its moves available.thats what makes medicham different and also now medicham has a large movepool now it gain elemental punches wich with the appropiate boosts easily ohkos gengar and misgamius i think..while lucarios ability sucks!like literally flinch is not very common maybe against togekiss but medicham can ko it with ice/thunder punch anyway...
 
squirtleboy12 said:
but luvario dsnt have something called pure power..thats why medicham can run jolly cause it has an ability that doubles its attack..think of a stronger choice banded item that doubles its attack,has all of its moves available.thats what makes medicham different and also now medicham has a large movepool now it gain elemental punches wich with the appropiate boosts easily ohkos gengar and misgamius i think..while lucarios ability sucks!like literally flinch is not very common maybe against togekiss but medicham can ko it with ice/thunder punch anyway...
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Medicham HAS to run Jolly if it wants to outspeed Base 130s and even then it can't touch stuff like Scarf Heracross with any of its moves, while Lucario can use ExtremeSpeed to deal with any threats that are faster. Which is rare after a Speed boost from Base 90 Speed.

Lucario 252 Evs in Attack Adamant reaches 350 Attack
Medicham 252 Evs in Attack Jolly reaches 438 Attack

While its a difference of nearly 100 points, Lucario gets moves with a base power of 120, and if it did have a better ability Lucario would be overpowered, in fact Inner Focus is a decent ability for it to have, it stops Fake Out users dead cold.

The ability to hit Dusknoir with a Super Effective attack is more valuable than you think.

Lucario 252 Atk Adamant Crunch does 37.76% - 44.56%to a 252 Hp/129 Def +Defense Dusknoir

Medicham 252 Atk Jolly Punch (Ice, Fire, etc) does 16.67% - 19.73% to the same Dusknoir

Medicham's movepool is not large at all, it has the 3 Punches, Brick Break, HJK, and Rock Slide, what it gains in attack stats it loses in actual attacks.

Lucario outclasses Medicham in nearly all respects, while it has a lower attack, its typing, move pool, speed, and ability to use attacks from both sides make up for that slight deficiency.
 
Medicham has Psycho Cut as well, let's not forget. Still, it's not doing nearly as much to Dusknoir.
 
Saying Marowak is not good with stat boosts is just dumb, and Mekkah already got into why...

Anyway all it really comes down to is movepool, stats don't matter much when you are receiving these kind of boosts, all you need to do is survive the receiving turn, and the occasional misprediction.

Tyranitar can Taunt and hurt everything with rock slide, crunch, and some filler move (preferably one that can dispatch steelix, magneton, and other pokes that resist rock slide + crunch). Not that resistances matter too much when you have +5 attack on something like tyranitar

Medicham used to be the best in RSE, as it could hit everything, but without shadow ball, its walled by stuff like gardevoir and cresselia, the former can will-o-wisp or hypnosis, the latter can drive you insane. Obviously if you pass enough attack boosts to something with 430+unboosted attack, nothing is really going to "wall" you

Marowak's best times were in GSC. There was no levitate, no unique type combinations like that of Breloom, and all you needed were a ground move and a rock move to destroy everything in sight. Anyway the past is the past, and Marowak can still come in and kick plenty of ass. With Thick Club he threatens flyers with Rock Slide and other floating threats with Double-edge. Earthquake kills everything it hits, but it needs some luck and Focus Punch to remove annoying stuff like Skarmory and Bronzong.

Gallade doesn't have the attack of its competition, but flaunts a movepool that has even Gengar jealous. Anything that resists close combat will die to Psycho Cut (Heracross, Scyther, Pinsir, Weezing, Gengar, Tentacruel) or Night Slash (Mono-psychics, Mono-Ghosts).

Any Dragon makes a great recipient, because dragon attack + fire attack + ground attack = Super effective or STAB damage to every pokemon in the game, shy of an Empoleon that was skill swapped levitate. Nothing else can even dream of boasting that (Gallade comes closest, falling short only with Spiritomb and Sableye). Anyone who mentions smeargle will promptly be shot.

On the special side, 'Bolt-beaming' is really the name of the game. Once Blissey is out of the picture Starmie, Lanturn, Gardevoir etc.. are all glad to receive calm minds, nasty plots, or whatever you wish. If you aren't too fond of removing Blissey, then Lucario, Alakazam, Gengar, Porygon2, Jirachi, Dragonite, Tyranitar, and Togekiss are all happy to oblige, removing blissey with either the sheer power of moves like Aura Sphere and Adaptability-boosted Tri-Attack, using Encore or Taunt and slowly wearing it down, or simply ruining it with with paraflinch or repeated drops of blissey's special defense.
 
Can you explain Zerowing?

As far as I'm concern, according to my calculations, this is the final stats for Adamant Lucario and Jolly Medichm:

Lucario:
Attack: 350
Speed: 279

Medicham:
Attack: 438
Speed: 284

Is Medicham's attack and speed both higher?

You also mention that Medicham can't do anything to Heracross, but you also fail to mention if Lucario could do anything, perhaps a little more clearer explanation as I'm not quite comprehending this.

It's also kind of ironic you would mention Fire Punch in your post, yet still refute that it can not do anything to Heracross. Let's see what calculations say though...

438 attack vs 186 defense, 75 power(*2), 302 max HP: 84.44% - 99.34%

Not quite the OHKO to a Min HP/Def Heracross. But what other item are you going to use on Medi as it's a going to be a BP reciever. Life Orb comes to mind. Let's redo those calculations.

438 attack vs 186 defense, 75 power(*2 *1.3), 302 max HP: 109.6% - 129.14%

Hmm, a definite OHKO.

I don't believe the standard Lucario has anything to OHKO Heracross, much less having anything Super Effective, unless we are going to start using mix Lucarios with Psychic, which does not OHKO.

361 attack vs 226 defense, 90 power(*2), 302 max HP: 68.54% - 80.79%

However, let's slap a Life Orb on it too, just to be fair.

361 attack vs 226 defense, 90 power(*2 *1.3), 302 max HP: 89.07% - 104.97%

It'll roughly survive 70% of the time, assuming no residual damage, which is moot since that argument would make all damage calculations fail.

So, Dusknoir is an argument. Clever that Lucario does more, however you are missing a very important move from Medicham.

Psycho Cut.

Whoa...STAB Psychic...

Now the Lucario vs Medicham comparrsion would look like this:

350 attack vs 371 defense, 80 power(*2), 294 max HP: 37.41% - 44.22%
438 attack vs 371 defense, 70 power(*1.5), 294 max HP: 30.61% - 36.05%

Both given Life Orb, we would see that:

350 attack vs 371 defense, 80 power(*2 *1.3), 294 max HP: 48.64% - 57.48%
438 attack vs 371 defense, 70 power(*1.5 *1.3), 294 max HP: 39.8% - 46.94%

Lucario would need max damage twice, while Medicham will never 2HKO. HOWEVER, Psycho Cut does have the increased critical hit rating, so just one CH gurantees a 2HKO. I would imagine that Psycho Cut's CH rating would be higher than Lucario being able to hit max damage twice.

So, just again, I was wondering what you were saying about Lucario outclassing Medicham?
 
I prefer my Ninjask > Octillery strategy. Sub first turn, protect next turn, and by then they should have a phazer (Swampy, Skarm?) out. BP to Octy with a Sub and probably a +2 speed, while they phaze you to no effect. With max speed stats, Octy gets 414 speed after that. Add Choice Specs/Life Orb onto that with it's gigantic movepool and it is an awesome sweeper :D
 
Sadly, even with Life Orb, Lucario is not guranteed a 100% OHKO everytime, as Hera has roughly a 1/18th chance of surviving. If you should add on it's accuracy to how often it would OHKO Heracross, although seemingly a situational argument, Lucario can now only OHKO Heracross 5/16th of the time.
 
Is there a way to stop Hazers like Weezing. I know they're not very common but you never know. I suppose if you use Medicham you could kill it with Psycho Cut before it does anything to you...
 
It's Swampert believe me. I've done the Jasksubstitute,protect-pass-Smearglespore,bdrum - pass to sweeper A lot on Shoddy.
U need something that cannot be paralyzed, burn sucks too but meh (could just slap on a lum berry), and that can survive at least one hit. Who's gonna start blasting smeargle or Jask with a grass move. Trust me Marowak is great to pass chains to but Swampert is the most realistic. I once tried Quagsire for kicks and its basically the same thing...but sux.
 
Now that you've said it Swampert is quite good. I currently using a Choice Band Swampert on my team and it works wonders. But if it had better speed and a choice of any attack, that would be awesome. Also, unlike the other sweepers, Swampert has the defences to stay in. But then you can't hit Skarmory/Swampert/Weezing really hard because they will either Whirlwind/Roar/Haze you.

Octillery is good for speed passes but it's attacks aren't sky rocketing to attempt a sweep and Blissey walls it.
 
You also mention that Medicham can't do anything to Heracross, but you also fail to mention if Lucario could do anything, perhaps a little more clearer explanation as I'm not quite comprehending this.
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What I'm saying is that without a Speed boost Medicham is not hitting a Scarf Heracross first, and Heracross will just KO with Megahorn before Medicham gets a chance to hit it, Lucario can still hit Scarfcross with ExtremeSpeed and do decent damage. While its not a OHKO, not even a 2HKO, Lucario will still be doing damage if something got desperate, if Medicham doesn't have more Speed than Heracross, its not going to touch it.

Hypothetical situation:
+6 Attack Lucario vs Scarf Heracross
Lucario is slower but uses ExtremeSpeed to OHKO

+6 Attack Medicham vs Scarf Heracross
Heracross is faster and uses Megahorn to KO

I'm not saying Lucario is going to be doing massive damage without boosts, but what I'm saying is that if somehow Lucario manages to not get speed, it can still deal with threats like Scarf users. Hell even without any boosts 350 Attack Lucario is still doing 41.76% - 49.04% to a no defense Heracross.

Lucario can deal with the 5 stat points it loses in Speed by using ExtremeSpeed to overcome that deficiency. Take my Heracross example and replace it with a Scarf Garchomp, that will outspeed +1 speed boost Medicham and Lucario every time, but Lucario can still hit it with ExtremeSpeed.

Lucario would need max damage twice, while Medicham will never 2HKO. HOWEVER, Psycho Cut does have the increased critical hit rating, so just one CH gurantees a 2HKO. I would imagine that Psycho Cut's CH rating would be higher than Lucario being able to hit max damage twice.

So, just again, I was wondering what you were saying about Lucario outclassing Medicham?
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While I will say I overlooked Psycho Cut (I completely forgot it had it), so I can't really argue about the Dusknoir thing. But you also forget that Crunch does have the Defense drop chance, so while Psycho Cut can CH 12% of the time, Crunch will drop Defense 20% of the time allowing for a 2HKO. Medicham has a 25% chance to CH and 2HKO (using the move twice) and Lucario has a 20% chance on the first try to get a Defense drop. Still very moot if you ask me.

I stand by my word that Lucario is better than Medicham, while Medicham is a MUCH better hit and run scarfer than Lucario, Lucario outclasses it in nearly every other respect.
 
My preffered recievers (in order of preference):

1) Octillery (i think most of you know why)
2) Aerodactyl (Taunt, super high speed and good Atk)
3) Zangoose (Stupendous stats, good type coverage, Taunt)
4) Froslass (great speed, common immunities, special attacking power, Taunt)
5) Medicham (pretty simple reasons, note: i use Psycho Cut)
 
I used a BP team, and Infernape is a good reciever with a sub up and +6 all.
but by then, magikarp would be just as good.
SPLASH ATTACK!!!
 
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