Better EVs

[asterat]

A lot of you are probably aware that the EVs listed in analysis' and such are total crap. EVs should be more specific to deal with current metagame trends and to maximize the efficiency of a pokemon. This thread is where you should share EV spread that you think are an improvement from what is usually advertised. Note that this is not a place to totally warp sets or post entirely new sets. For example posting a support landorus-t set with some speed investment and less HP to outspeed something or other would be great. However giving it max attack and no defense is a totally different set. There are other threads for bringing up new sets, this is the wrong one. The last important piece is that you need to note what your spread does, and if applicable what it can no longer do. This is not necessarily a thread calling for extreme walls of text, but more for good information concealed in a post of whatever length is appropriate.

Here's an Example:

Manectric @ Manectite
Ability: Lightningrod
EVs: 204 Spd / 252 SAtk / 8 HP / 44 Def
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk / 30 Def
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Overheat

Manectric is already a bulky pivot, but this spread gives him more bulk at the cost of unnecessary speed. The HP specifically allows Manectric-mega to survive one hydro pump from Greninja at full health (it does a maximum of 282... this Manectric has 283 HP!) The defense EVs also allow it to take physical attacks slightly better. The speed, when evolved, is enough to outspeed +1 Gyarados (or dragonite) and score and KO with the appropriate move.

Relevant Calculations:

Old:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Mega Manectric: 239-282 (85 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 151-178 (53.7 - 63.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Manectric: 285-336 (101.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO

New:

252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 8 HP / 0 SpD Mega Manectric: 239-282 (84.4 - 99.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 8 HP / 44 Def Mega Manectric: 144-169 (50.8 - 59.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0+ Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 8 HP / 44 Def Mega Manectric: 271-319 (95.7 - 112.7%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

 

[Elveman]

Interesting enough. Also there should be EV recalculations for level 50 (y'know, Wi-Fi battles and stuff)

 

[Duck Chris]

If you think about it for a minute you might realize why these EVs exist. Manectric has 105 speed when unevolved, so if you use your EV spread, he would get outsped by Charizard, Garchomp, and Landorus on the first turn, whereas if max speed they would be quickly disposed of with volt switch or hidden power ice respectively.

If you go into the set details it will tell you why they use certain spreads.

 

[Baharoth]

Imo the only thing "wrong" with the spreads in the analysis is the complete lack of speed creeping, the possibility isnt even mentioned most of the times. Hard to understand considering how beneficial it can be at times.

An individual spread that I like is "mixed" Hippowdon

240 HP, 148+ Def 120 SDef

That spread is defined by certain benchmarks I wanted to reach. Unlike the full SDef set it can take a hit from +2 Mega Pinsir and + 2 Bisharp while also having a 50% chance to survive + 2 Mega Mawile Play Rough. But it maintains the ability to switch into stuff like Aegislash Shadowball (only sets without boosting item though), Thundurus and Mega Manetric. It can also take a hit from Mega Charizard Y in the sun and kill it with Stone Edge and it can "sit out" Latios by using Slack off against Draco Meteor.

 

[Nubbins]

Well if everyone speed creeps what's the point?

 

[Baharoth]

If everyone does it, it will be more benefitial not to creep and we start all over again. The reality however is that most people dont creep and given how even 1 or 2 points in speed can make a huge difference i think it deserves more attention than it currently gets.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

inb4close

EVs listed in analysis are usually geared towards being optimal in the metagame of the time the analysis was written, they also dislike to speed creep in analysises because unless it's a hard speed creep (outspeeding 'x' at max speed) there's little point.

Your example is also pretty awful, as previously pointed out Manectric needs to mega evolve first and his normal form sits at a considerably slower 105 base speed, touching the spread at all means you forfeit speedtying Mega Pinsir (which can be rather relevant as you OHKO it and it OHKOs back with a little prior damage (assuming you mega evolve on it and Intimidate it) but more importantly get outsped by Garchomp and base 100s (the list is long) which is a big no-no.

 

[Pipotchi]

Your example is also pretty awful, as previously pointed out Manectric needs to mega evolve first and his normal form sits at a considerably slower 105 base speed, touching the spread at all means you forfeit speedtying Mega Pinsir (which can be rather relevant as you OHKO it and it OHKOs back with a little prior damage (assuming you mega evolve on it and Intimidate it) but more importantly get outsped by Garchomp and base 100s (the list is long) which is a big no-no.

His spread is fine, Mega Manectric is a pivot with good 3 move coverage so it can afford to run protect.. protect helps with scouting anyway. That being said, its not a good moveset for the stat spread that he's chosen I guess.


I feel like better EVs is more something for the UU forums where the average speed is a lot lower, and the higher speed threats like m.aerodactyl and mega manectric are top tier contenders

 

[sparktrain]

http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/preventing-speed-creep.74787/
this kinda explains why speed creep isn't included in analyses

 

[asterat]

I'm sorry my point came across wrong. This thread is meant to share alternative spreads, not to debate the ones that already exist.

 

[Valmanway]

Back in pre-pokebank, my Rotom-W would always have 168 Spd / 232 HP / 108 SAtk with a Timid Nature, so I could Volt Switch into my Venusaur before a Smeargle lead used Spore, while still having decent power and bulk.

 

[Mitchhhhhh]

Back in pre-pokebank, my Rotom-W would always have 168 Spd / 232 HP / 108 SAtk with a Timid Nature, so I could Volt Switch into my Venusaur before a Smeargle lead used Spore, while still having decent power and bulk.

I'd make my Rotom-W a bit slower than usual (drop a few IVs) to outslow opposing Rotom-Ws in order to get switch priority and get stuff in safely (made sure to still outspeed uninvested base 80s like Venusaur and Mandibuzz though) being slow vs Smeargle wasn't a problem as I had a Chesto Berry to absorb the spore and would just Volt Switch into a faster mon to kill Smeargle on the next turn.

His spread is fine, Mega Manectric is a pivot with good 3 move coverage so it can afford to run protect.. protect helps with scouting anyway. That being said, its not a good moveset for the stat spread that he's chosen I guess.

I've never seen Protect being used on Mega Man outside of Doubles/VGC tbh, it sounds like a decent idea but he needs both coverage moves and Volt Switch, and losing your strongest move for slightly better bulk and a tbh somewhat useless move as besides bypassing your lower Pre-Mevo speed, it doesn't do a whole lot (most defensive mons that run Protect have Poison Heal, Lefties and/or Wish or at least Toxic or Leech Seed, offensive mons that run Protect don't really exist in the current meta and Manectric's speed is actually rather good at 105 base, outspeeding just about every relevant threat outside of Keldeo, Terrakion, the Latis, Thundurus, Greninja, Talonflame, Deoxys-S, most Scarfers, and a few more niche things like Infernape and Starmie that don't see a lot of usage in OU so you'll find plenty of opportunities where you can mega evolve on something you'll outspeed regardless.

You might have a point about UU though, maybe sacrificing some speed is ok there (although you'd lose the speed tie with Mienshao who is a fairly big threat in UU if I'm not mistaken).

TLDR: Protect is a waste of a moveslot for Mega Man and his speed EVs should be maxed (or at the very least outspeed Max +Speed non-scarf Garchomp).

 

[Mahmudkipz]

If anything the speed creep arguement is invalid in this threat because the set in the OP doesn't even speed creep - as a matter of fact, no one is making speed creep sets in this thread as of now. Altgough the OP should probably put a reminder to people that speed creeping just for creeping is bad, unless the extra EVs that goes to speed does not decrease bulk/power significantly i.e. makes you survive the same attacks that one might take and/or dish out the same !/2HKOs.

 

[Pipotchi]

You might have a point about UU though, maybe sacrificing some speed is ok there (although you'd lose the speed tie with Mienshao who is a fairly big threat in UU if I'm not mistaken).

Protect is actually a decent tool vs Mienshao in UU because it dodges high jump kick and makes him crash- but yea, it has a lot less application in the OU metagame due to much faster threats and a base speed which requires some investment like you said

 

[Stoo]

I actually run Magnet Rise on my Manectric. I usually outspeed Garchomps and the like on the first turn and use Magnet Rise. Garchomp really can't OHKO M-Manecrtic with any other move, unless maybe it's a Mega Chomp

the only time a good garchomp would ever stay in on manectric is if it was scarfed, so this seems a pretty sketchy tactic imo