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NOC Bigvivor Mafia Game Thread Day 5

Celever said:
Town for all intents and purposes:
Eli (Nuxl)
Spiderz

In my opinion these are the most productive players so far who have really carried discussion and provided a lot of content for the town. This doesn't mean everyone here IS town, but rather that right now the town loses a ton by losing them. Thus, they should be treated as town until there is more confirmed information to work with, such as connection reads post-flips.

Hard town:
Clouds - This guy's been really useful when he's been here, afaicr.
Caffeine - Has a tone of content and it all seems perfectly reasonable from a towie perspective. If we were to make a town core I don't feel comfortable with im in it, but he should still be a townread on the perimeter
Realiti - IIRC he's playing exactly the same as in the last maf game I played on this site, where iirc he was town. He and I disagreed on a lot back then in terms of conclusions too (I was scum but, y'know, his reads weren't vs me and my scumbuds iirc we disagreed over scummiest town)

Town lean:
Dave - basically just tone imma be upfront on this
Psy - had a wonderful D1 but has kinda disappeared today. Come back Psypsypsypsypsythe !! He was fairly solvy yesterday, so I'm really interested to see his attempts at solving alignments in light of what's happened so far today.
Ayia - I agree with Spiderz' post analysing Ayia at #1,639. He kinda sniped me on this.
Dyo - I think their reaction to pressure was good, idk
M2H - Kind of see Psy tbh? Except like, more extreme on both accounts.
Vizh - I see them as lost newbie who has made town-minded attempts from time to time with a fairly low commitment to the game. I'd love to see more from them!

We could literally policy these people:
DLE
Drookez
Laurel
Ryo
shadowpea
Sificon Sificon hi the game started
Texas
Whydon

Scum lean:
Haruno - This is well-documented. They were one of my top scumreads yesterday and have done nothing to change that. I like my theory that they modified their recruiter-to-a-lost-wolf role into a lost mason a lot. Might explain the one kill yesterday, there's a chance they're a smaller 3p faction that only gets a kill when they find their lost wolf (or the lost wolf dies). I've seen that role in big games before.
Sam - I've been scum leaning Sam since I was 13. I don't want to shoot here, but I can't in good faith put him as town lean lol.

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Imma level with you I thought my reads would be better than this. I really struggle to scumread people heavily yet.
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would Caff be overlapping w the first two categories
 
I'm confused at M2H's case here. Hal could see a world in which scum was Hydro/Sam/Texas but still pushed Sam and Texas as viable scum options bc of the disproven theory wrt Hydro. Ofc Sam/Texas being scum doesn't preclude the other from also being scum, only one of them would link Hydro the old gamethread and then the other could be scum as rand.

I initially read those quotes as Hal saying Sam was the more pressing slot to vote out before Texas bc Texas had given up, but it could still have been either of them? I think that's still how I read them.
 
Celever said:
Town for all intents and purposes:
Eli (Nuxl)
Spiderz

In my opinion these are the most productive players so far who have really carried discussion and provided a lot of content for the town. This doesn't mean everyone here IS town, but rather that right now the town loses a ton by losing them. Thus, they should be treated as town until there is more confirmed information to work with, such as connection reads post-flips.

Hard town:
Clouds - This guy's been really useful when he's been here, afaicr.
Caffeine - Has a tone of content and it all seems perfectly reasonable from a towie perspective. If we were to make a town core I don't feel comfortable with im in it, but he should still be a townread on the perimeter
Realiti - IIRC he's playing exactly the same as in the last maf game I played on this site, where iirc he was town. He and I disagreed on a lot back then in terms of conclusions too (I was scum but, y'know, his reads weren't vs me and my scumbuds iirc we disagreed over scummiest town)

Town lean:
Dave - basically just tone imma be upfront on this
Psy - had a wonderful D1 but has kinda disappeared today. Come back Psypsypsypsypsythe !! He was fairly solvy yesterday, so I'm really interested to see his attempts at solving alignments in light of what's happened so far today.
Ayia - I agree with Spiderz' post analysing Ayia at #1,639. He kinda sniped me on this.
Dyo - I think their reaction to pressure was good, idk
M2H - Kind of see Psy tbh? Except like, more extreme on both accounts.
Vizh - I see them as lost newbie who has made town-minded attempts from time to time with a fairly low commitment to the game. I'd love to see more from them!

We could literally policy these people:
DLE
Drookez
Laurel
Ryo
shadowpea
Sificon Sificon hi the game started
Texas
Whydon

Scum lean:
Haruno - This is well-documented. They were one of my top scumreads yesterday and have done nothing to change that. I like my theory that they modified their recruiter-to-a-lost-wolf role into a lost mason a lot. Might explain the one kill yesterday, there's a chance they're a smaller 3p faction that only gets a kill when they find their lost wolf (or the lost wolf dies). I've seen that role in big games before.
Sam - I've been scum leaning Sam since I was 13. I don't want to shoot here, but I can't in good faith put him as town lean lol.

--------------------

Imma level with you I thought my reads would be better than this. I really struggle to scumread people heavily yet.
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Can you link some of Cloud's more helpful posts? I've kinda go the opposite opinion on him and I'm wondering what you're seeing that I might be missing.
 
Celever said:
TBF I forgot Texas said that before, this push is a little opportunistic in light of that. It's the last time you can push Texas for hovering in-thread and not contributing before he contributes
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I have a sinking suspicion there never would have been “4 hours of solving,” had I not pushed their slot to death.

I also strongly doubt them coming in thread more is going to help my view of them. This is more based on the fact that town Texas would have done something by now. At this point, them coming in thread is already too late to seem towny. It took a significant degree of pressure to force them to respond as opposed to them wanting to solve on their own. I might have been OK with it had Texas made a note of their activity and carved out a time they’d come on on Day 1 instead as opposed to on Day 2 in the context of already being under significant pressure.

Its worth noting that Texas seems to be presenting themselves as angrier than their delivery implies.
 
Celever said:
I don't think so bc Caff has been significantly less solvy than you and Eli. If anything taking Caff out reduces fluff in the thread and could be useful, but Caff has contributed enough for us to not do that lol
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Spiderz said:
LOL exactly my thoughts actually I didn’t expect you to say this though im ngl
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...
ok then :psysad:
 
Clouds said:
mb, answered roughly what you asked here:



but admittedly before reading your question & it's been a busy weekend irl, catching up on things now, will react to posts as i read through

knowing psy/cel a bit would argue they're both town based on their analysis approach (psy giving a post recap from what reads to me as a town tone). cel read intent here feels town:



middle of the road on the vizh read & knowing vizh as well, after iso can see a world where posts that may be interpreted as scummy to experienced players not being scummy in reality. too early to fall on one side of the fence for me



hi nice to meet you

would like to hear Whydon's reasoning for the dyo read because i don't rlly agree, this to me reads as a dyo that's town and is trying to compensate for lack of d1 postcount (like me!) and doesn't want to be misread as scum:
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This was early D1 and I think all of this was unprompted original content and thoughts
Clouds said:
I don't know if eli is usually this obsessed with himself and wanting people to make reads on him when he's town but w/o knowing the background or playstyle of a player I would read the majority of his posts as townleaning

Psy is town for reasons I mentioned in a previous post + more confident on this after reading the last 4-5 of his posts

Still unfortunately no elaboration from Whydon on his Dyo read.. very disappointing
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The entire interaction between us following and including this post felt really towny with a willingness to contribute. It was good that when I asked him for a wider range of reads he just gave one or two that he cared about and felt confident in, compared with feeling pressured to come up with a full readslist. I would have preferred a full readslist, but it's still town mentality.
Clouds said:
like the only one i've seen recently dissecting a frequent posters' posts in scum lighting is spiderz with m2h, other attention is diverted towards vets that haven't been talking a ton ex. dle/texas/laurel and then dyo for w/e reason. which is fair and expected, it's mafia and talk less = bad but with the lack of focus there, and two town down already, it gives the impression at least a scum or two are playing well & considered town by the majority of the game already

this is unintentionally vague but my confidence in current reads isn't sturdy enough to call anyone hardscum right now and i feel like i'd exacerbate things, when i have a better grasp on where i'd place everyone i'll do a broad overview of reads

psy's most town for me out of anyone after this, doubt he says this for smoke and mirrors as scum, as a new player:
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This is his post from D2 I liked.

Looking back I A) missed a question from him (oops I'll do that now) and B) his interaction with me is acc quite disproportionate compared with other players. He might have successfully pocketed me lol
 
M2H said:
I have a sinking suspicion there never would have been “4 hours of solving,” had I not pushed their slot to death.

I also strongly doubt them coming in thread more is going to help my view of them. This is more based on the fact that town Texas would have done something by now. At this point, them coming in thread is already too late to seem towny. It took a significant degree of pressure to force them to respond as opposed to them wanting to solve on their own. I might have been OK with it had Texas made a note of their activity and carved out a time they’d come on on Day 1 instead as opposed to on Day 2 in the context of already being under significant pressure.

Its worth noting that Texas seems to be presenting themselves as angrier than their delivery implies.
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dusk is asking me to not absolutely eviscerate you for the bullshit you're spewing so go thank him for that
 
Serious q: has either Texas or Celever even once in this game directly addressed the other? They seem to constantly float around each others’ orbits with no direct interaction, but I’m not reading every post so maybe someone can dig up a counter example?

- friendly hydra
 
Spiderz said:
psy is screaming town btw
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LOL I missed that and love it
UncleSam said:
Serious q: has either Texas or Celever even once in this game directly addressed the other? They seem to constantly float around each others’ orbits with no direct interaction, but I’m not reading every post so maybe someone can dig up a counter example?

- friendly hydra
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I don't think so, bc Texas hasn't contributed anything yet that I might respond to. I think this also pertained to you before you made this flimsy connection read involving me.
 
Clouds said:
hydreigon was robbed

uneasy about how little reading is being done into frequent posters and instead scum pushes have been more centered around like, dyo/haruno/laurel now, which is generally fair but it's heavily leaning into this and signals that there's likely at least a scum pairing among said frequent posters. loosening up my soft scum read on haruno after their partial mason post, feels oddly specific to come up with, and want to hear Celever's thoughts on this too
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So I think I half-responded to this in my reads list actually. My stance atm is that certain high-volume players are solvy enough that they are important to gamestate, and thus should be treated as town for the foreseeable future until more solid information is revealed. It's just a personal view of mafia with a half-inactive cast.

But yes, I think one of the players I include in this is scum. It's just not useful to chase that yet.
 
Celever said:
So I think I half-responded to this in my reads list actually. My stance atm is that certain high-volume players are solvy enough that they are important to gamestate, and thus should be treated as town for the foreseeable future until more solid information is revealed. It's just a personal view of mafia with a half-inactive cast.

But yes, I think one of the players I include in this is scum. It's just not useful to chase that yet.
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Meant to be at least one. The pair theory has value but is not one I subscribe to atm; in my mind there's a wolf trying to infiltrate towncore and the rest are trying to pretend to be PRs and laying low if there's one faction. If there's two factions, I'm less sure
 
Celever said:
Scum lean:
Haruno - This is well-documented. They were one of my top scumreads yesterday and have done nothing to change that. I like my theory that they modified their recruiter-to-a-lost-wolf role into a lost mason a lot. Might explain the one kill yesterday, there's a chance they're a smaller 3p faction that only gets a kill when they find their lost wolf (or the lost wolf dies). I've seen that role in big games before.
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This is almost undoubtedly related to my relative newness to any form of Mafia game, but why is it likely they modified the claim?
Part of my personal townlean on Haruno is as far as I know there’s very little content so it seems weird to just declare yourself a Mason and change that pattern unless they are actually trying to contribute
 
Psypsypsypsypsythe said:
hi caught up on thread right before work!

wtf is this and do you think that this is more likely than harunos partial "mason" claim
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I legit do think it's likelier than Haruno's partial mason claim bc in a game of this size making the masons lost to start off with is pretty nonsensical. Haruno would have to have a locked second ability that is unlocked once they find their mason, and they haven't claimed that this is the case.
 
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