Bisharp

[alexwolf]

Thoughts about this set:

Assault Vest
########
name: Assault Vest
move 1: Pursuit
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Iron Head
ability: Defiant
item: Assault Vest
nature: Adamant
evs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 SpD

With those EVS you avoid the 2HKO from LO Latios's HP Fire:

- 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Assault Vest Bisharp: 114-135 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, or 23.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

putting it in a checkmate position, and making sure that your hazards will stay up after Latios dies. What's better is that if Latios uses Defog as Bisharp comes in, you don't even have to predict, as +2 Pursuit always OHKOes 4 HP Latios (and 4 HP Latias). Not that the prediction game is hard anyway, as you have two turns at worst to win the 50-50 predition game; if Latios predicts the Bisharp switch-in and goes for HP Fire, you have two turns to play the Pursuit/Sucker Punch game, and if he uses any other move as you come in (Defog, DM, or Psyshock), you can just spam Pursuit until it dies. And this is if Latios carries HP Fire. So, as you can see, Bisharp can almost always eliminate Latios with little risk. Against Latias it's even easier, and the chance of Latias KOing you before it dies is almost zero.

Also, Bisharp is the only Pursuit user that can trap and KO Aegislash, as if Bisharp comes in as Aegislash is on its Blade forme (either switching into one of its attacks or after something dies) then Aegislash has no option other than die to Pursuit, provided it has taken enough damage to be put in the KO range of +2 Pursuit. Here are the calcs:

- 252+ Atk Bisharp Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Blade: 242-288 (74.6 - 88.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (before King's Shield)
- +2 252+ Atk Bisharp Pursuit vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 198-234 (61.1 - 72.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (after King's Shield)

Of course, Bisharp could just put some prediction in the mix instead of spamming Pursuit, and OHKO Aegislash with Knock Off on either turn. Anyway, eliminating or weakening tank Aegislash is a very important niche imo, as it can check various great sweepers if healthy, but fails to do so after an encounter with Pursuit Bisharp. Some examples are SD and NP Mega Lucario, Shift Gear Genesect, and Terrakion in general.

And with Pursuit, Bisharp traps and kills effortlessly LO mixed attacker Aegislash after one LO round and after it has used one attack (meaning it is in Sword forme), but this is not unique to Bisharp (Tyranitar and Scizor can do this too), it's just another perk of Pursuit on Bisharp.

From those two examples, you can understand just how well AV Bisharp fits on offensive teams with dual hazards. It eliminates the single biggest threat to hazards (Defog Lati@s) and a threateing offensive mon in general, while also trapping and weakening a big roadblock to some great sweepers, something that no other Pokemon can do, as no other Pokemon can do any notable damage to King's Shield Aegislash, at least not reliably. With Lati@s gone, it is so much easier to keep your hazards up, as there are plenty of offensive Pokemon with Taunt or just enough offensive presence to dent most Defog users (Mega Char Y, Thundurus-I, Terrakion, Keldeo). Lati@s are the most troubling Defog users against dual hazard offensive teams because of their great Speed and power, which means that stopping it from getting a Defog was easier said than done, not to mention that it's not an easy Pokemon to contain for offensive teams.

Finally, this set can counter physically defensive CM Clefable with Fire Blast, a very difficult Pokemon to deal with for many teams, and that LO Bisharp can revenge kill but not reliably switch into.


Anyway, enough rambling, i want opinions about this set. I think it should be a main set!

 

[StViers]

Awesome write-up (peanut gallery view at least). In the intro, it's worth mentioning how the X/Y change benefits him offensively as well, as his Dark Stab is no longer resisted by Steel types.

In "Set Details" you have an errant "is" after Tyranitar, and that whole section reads a bit clunkily. If I may suggest a more streamlined alternative, I'd go with "Low Kick can be used to nab OHKOs on Tyranitar, opposing Bisharps, and even Mega Lucario (if you catch it switching in), and is the best option against Mega-Aggron." There are other places where I feel sentence restructuring could improve readability, most notably talking about when to use Sword Dance ("Later in the battle, after major threats have been removed, you can set up an SD and proceed to sweep, etc etc")

Thanks for your time!

 

[Ash Borer]

Cool set alex, I fuckin hate aegislash, definitely going to try it out. Seems really anti meta.

That being said, it has less stall breaking capacity as the SD set. A +2 bisharp is frightening to stall teams, and grabbing a swords dance is no challenge against stall. +2 is still possible with defiant, but the SD set is more consistent as well as more powerful with the life orb.

 

[Knight of Cydonia]

alexwolf It is worth noting that Bisharp does not reach +2 when Aegislash uses kings shield. Its attack gets lowered by -2 then raised back to normal by defiant. If it kings shield then stays in bisharp will lose if it uses pursuit rather than knock off.

Still it seems like a useful set if you can predict correctly vs aegislash and trapping lati@s is always nice.

edit- on PS the defiant boost is not related to how much your stats are dropped by. It is always a +2 attack boost no matter what the induced stat drop is.

 

[alexwolf]

alexwolf It is worth noting that Bisharp does not reach +2 when Aegislash uses kings shield. Its attack gets lowered by -2 then raised back to normal by defiant. If it kings shield then stays in bisharp will lose if it uses pursuit rather than knock off.

Still it seems like a useful set if you can predict correctly vs aegislash and trapping lati@s is always nice.

Defiant raises Atk by 2 stages every time one of your stats is lowered, so King's Shield gets you to +2 Attack (+4 + (-2)).

 

[Ixeilon]

ummm @_@

Bisharp hits King Shield, -2.
Defiant activates, +2

so you end up at 0 unless I'm missing something here.

 

[alexwolf]

ummm @_@

Bisharp hits King Shield, -2.
Defiant activates, +2

so you end up at 0 unless I'm missing something here.

Your Atk is raised by two stages for EACH stat drop by Defiant. King's Shield causes two Atk drops and therefore activates Defiant twice.

Idk, maybe i am interpreting it wrong, but this is how i get it by reading this: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Defiant_(Ability)

 

[melvni]

Also, Memento will trigger Defiant twice: Once for the Attack drop, and once for the Special Attack drop.

This is from the research thread. I could be wrong, but this makes it seem like Defiant is triggered each time a stat is dropped by any amount, not for each -1 in a stat.

Edit: Alexwolf your link says "Defiant raises the user's Attack stat by two stages for each stat lowered by an opponent." I think that's referring to each time Attack is lowered by X, or Defense is lowered by X, or any other stat is lowered by X.

 

[StViers]

It drops for each instance of a stat drop, so a sharp decrease is one instance, so it evens out to +0. Memento's text reads Attack sharply decreases (triggering Defiant), SpA sharply decreases (triggering Defiant). The amount of a decrease in one instance doesn't trigger additional defiance procs, but multiple instances do.

 

[Jukain]

http://www.smogon.com/bw/abilities/defiant

Whenever an attack by an opposing Pokemon or an ability from an opposing Pokemon causes a stat stage of the wielder to be reduced, its Attack is raised by 2 stages. Defiant triggers once for each different stat stage reduced.

Unless something changed in XY StViers has it right alexwolf

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah you guys are right. Anyway, thoughts about the actual set?

 

[StViers]

It seems like an interesting set, but you're giving up the ability to boost (through life orb or SD) to deal with 2 threats. Unless a team has a super specific layout where you have no other reliable checks to aegis/latios, it does seem rather gimmicky.

 

[alexwolf]

While the amount of threats that AV lets you deal with might be small, the ability to guaranteed remove Lati@s from the field and get a +2 boost if they use Defog is huge for many offensive teams. Also, due to most Bisharp being SD + LO, if Aegislash is in its Blade Forme as Bisharp comes in, Aegislash will never use King's Shield because it's a lose-lose situation for it (if Bisharp attacks, it loses nothing due to Defiant and can still OHKO Aegislash even in its Shield Forme, while if Bisharp uses SD, Aegislash and its team are in trouble). AV Bisharp can take advantage of this to succesfully trap Aegislash in its Sword Forme with Pursuit, which no other Pokemon can do, as no other Pursuit user is immune to King's Shield. It's not like AV Bisharp doesn't have other advantages over SD Bisharp, as being able to take a hit and OHKO/2HKO back Pokemon such as Kyurem-B, Clefable, and even Leftovers +3 Manaphy can be vital for offensive teams.

For example, while Tyranitar can guaranteed trap and kill Lati@s, it is easy to deal and set up after (unlike Bisharp), doesn't get at +2 Atk from Defog, doesn't have priority, and can't trap Aegislash.

 

[Ash Borer]

Pursuit in general is great on Bisharp against AEgislash. Even if Aegislash stays in and uses King's Shield the damage done on the switch to shield form is pretty significant so you can pressure the opponent into letting you get a clean KO with knock off.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Thoughts about this set:

Assault Vest
########
name: Assault Vest
move 1: Pursuit
move 2: Sucker Punch
move 3: Knock Off
move 4: Iron Head
ability: Defiant
item: Assault Vest
nature: Adamant
evs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 SpD

Hey alex, sorry for the delay, but let me share my thoughts on this set (if you saw my old post in the AV thread, I actually tested this exact set about a month ago). I used the same moves you have listed (with very slightly different EVs) but I didn't find it too noteworthy. It's nice in the sense that it lets you reliably remove Defog Lati@s without even fearing HP Fire, and it helps you stomach special hits in general much better than otherwise. Unfortunately, giving up an offensive item hurts Bisharp's power, and on top of giving up SD, it makes him much less threatening.

It's certainly interesting, but I don't think it needs a set, so what I've done is added a mention of AV in the OO section. Let me know your thoughts!

I'm a big fan of Pursuit on Bisharp though, so I also added more details about how Bisharp has the wonderful ability to trap Aegislash alongside the Pursuit mention. Hopefully we can get the much delayed 3rd QC check here!

 

[alexwolf]

Yeah, AV is fine to mention in OO. Pursuit should at least be mentioned in the set details of the SD set, if not get a slash with Swords Dance, as it's has a variety of applications and it's not like Bisharp desperately needs SD to wallbreak and be a forced to be reckoned with.

 

[Knight of Cydonia]

Shroomisaur you still haven't addressed the issue of the speed evs mentioned on the first page.

 

[awola]

I feel like Choice Band at least needs to be mentioned. It ensures a clean OHKO on Aegislash with Knock Off, making it a good switch in if you don't expect them to Sacred Sword on the switch. Since you're just going to be firing off Knock Offs most of the time it makes sense to make sure it does the most amount of damage possible. I believe it also does ensure a 2HKO with Knock Off on Rotom-W with no SR.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Shroomisaur you still haven't addressed the issue of the speed evs mentioned on the first page.

Yeah, if Rotom commonly runs a bit of speed now, I don't want to start speed-creeping. Max Speed will detract from Bisharp's already poor survivability, but it's probably worth it to outspeed as many things as possible. I've updated the OP with the max/max spread.

I feel like Choice Band at least needs to be mentioned. It ensures a clean OHKO on Aegislash with Knock Off, making it a good switch in if you don't expect them to Sacred Sword on the switch. Since you're just going to be firing off Knock Offs most of the time it makes sense to make sure it does the most amount of damage possible. I believe it also does ensure a 2HKO with Knock Off on Rotom-W with no SR.

CB is an interesting choice, but if you're looking for something to just spam Knock Off, Crawdaunt is a far better option. Bisharp is very reliant on Sucker Punch to deal with faster threats so I'd stick with LO in most cases - LO already guarantees the KO against Aegis after SR.

 

[alexwolf]

Shroomisaur is right, Crawdaunt does the CB thing much better, so don't mention CB at all. Now, let's take a look at this:

Overview

You are focusing way too much on describing the changes that Bisharp experienced in the generation shift and fail to actually address his pros and cons in this metagame. Limit all that transition stuff to a single sentence if you really want to talk about it, and then make sure to stress why one would want to use Bisharp: strong wallbreaker, strong priority, discourages Defog, dgaf about Intimidate, checks some common threats. Then talk about his cons, which are low Speed, reliance on Sucker Punch to get past faster foes, poor special bulk, and common weaknesses to Ground, Fighting, and Fire, especially Fighting, as due to his horrible 4x weakness to it it can't take advantage of its Ghost-resistance to the extend it would like.

Main Set

Bisharp can eliminate many faster threats with Sucker Punch when boosted.

And even unboosted, as Sucker Punch is very strong as you already said.

Explain some particular important Pokemon that max Speed lets you outrun, such as Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur, and Landorus-T. Also, when talking about LO and Dread Plate, give some examples of LO's superiority in most cases and where the extra power is handy, as what you did was just stating the description of each item.

Add Pursuit in the moves section (on the last slot) and describe how it lets Bisharp trap Pokemon such as Aegislash and Lati@s. Also, add the AV set that i mentioned on the second page on the set details.

Do those and i will come back later to QC check it.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Shroomisaur is right, Crawdaunt does the CB thing much better, so don't mention CB at all. Now, let's take a look at this:

Overview

You are focusing way too much on describing the changes that Bisharp experienced in the generation shift and fail to actually address his pros and cons in this metagame. Limit all that transition stuff to a single sentence if you really want to talk about it, and then make sure to stress why one would want to use Bisharp: strong wallbreaker, strong priority, discourages Defog, dgaf about Intimidate, checks some common threats. Then talk about his cons, which are low Speed, reliance on Sucker Punch to get past faster foes, poor special bulk, and common weaknesses to Ground, Fighting, and Fire, especially Fighting, as due to his horrible 4x weakness to it it can't take advantage of its Ghost-resistance to the extend it would like.

Main Set
And even unboosted, as Sucker Punch is very strong as you already said.

Explain some particular important Pokemon that max Speed lets you outrun, such as Rotom-W, Mega Venusaur, and Landorus-T. Also, when talking about LO and Dread Plate, give some examples of LO's superiority in most cases and where the extra power is handy, as what you did was just stating the description of each item.

Add Pursuit in the moves section (on the last slot) and describe how it lets Bisharp trap Pokemon such as Aegislash and Lati@s. Also, add the AV set that i mentioned on the second page on the set details.

Do those and i will come back later to QC check it.

Ok Alex, I rewrote the Overview section with less transitional stuff and more pros/cons. I also bumped up the Pursuit mention into the Moves section, and fleshed out the set details and mentioned AV and your EV spread. I also added Def Mega Venusaur to the C&C, so everything's taken care of. This should be all set!

 

[Super Mario Bro]

QC APPROVED 3/3

I have one minor quibble, though:

Mandibuzz is the only Defog user that doesn't fear Bisharp

Be careful whenever you use all-encompassing adverbs such as "only" or "always". As rare as it is, Gliscor (without Poison Heal) can defeat Bisharp, so you should phrase it a bit differently by saying that it safely switches into "most" Defog users. Additionally, I wouldn't even say that Mandibuzz deals with Bisharp all that well; +2 Iron Head does about half and has a 30% chance to flinch, while Foul Play does not kill in return. If Mandibuzz wants to have sufficient health to remove hazards or counter a different threat at some point in the future, it should probably switch out. Suffice it to say that, if Mandibuzz stays in and takes a significant amount from boosted Iron Head, Bisharp achieved his goal of "punishing the Defogger".

 

[alexwolf]

Zapdos is also a viable Defog user that can beat Bisharp 1-on-1 if it has Heat Wave.

 

[JR]

What are the calcs with Bisharp vs. Aegislash? I'm worried about Secret Sword, is Knock Off enough to kill it in Shield Forme?

 

[Shroomisaur]

QC APPROVED 3/3

I have one minor quibble, though:



Be careful whenever you use all-encompassing adverbs such as "only" or "always". As rare as it is, Gliscor (without Poison Heal) can defeat Bisharp, so you should phrase it a bit differently by saying that it safely switches into "most" Defog users. Additionally, I wouldn't even say that Mandibuzz deals with Bisharp all that well; +2 Iron Head does about half and has a 30% chance to flinch, while Foul Play does not kill in return. If Mandibuzz wants to have sufficient health to remove hazards or counter a different threat at some point in the future, it should probably switch out. Suffice it to say that, if Mandibuzz stays in and takes a significant amount from boosted Iron Head, Bisharp achieved his goal of "punishing the Defogger".

Yeah, I'll simply remove that bit. Those comments about Mandi are mainly due to requests to add in that the Mandibuzz matchup is not very advantageous for Bisharp, even in a best case scenario (you switch in a healthy Bisharp on Defog). Mandi can Whirlwind you away, and Foul Play and +2 LO Iron Head are basically equal, incredibly enough.

+2 0 Atk Mandibuzz Foul Play vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 165-195 (60.6 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Iron Head vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 253-298 (59.8 - 70.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously that's in Bisharp's favor since it can outspeed and possibly flinch Mandi, but in any other case Mandibuzz is very comfortable against Bisharp. So with that taken care of, thanks for the final QC!

Zapdos is also a viable Defog user that can beat Bisharp 1-on-1 if it has Heat Wave.

Zapdos falls to a boosted Sucker Punch, so it only wins if it predicts the switch (which is true of most Defoggers). If Bisharp packs Pursuit as well, it's stuck in the classic stay/switch prediction war.

What are the calcs with Bisharp vs. Aegislash? I'm worried about Secret Sword, is Knock Off enough to kill it in Shield Forme?

Here are the calcs:

252+ Atk Life Orb Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 307-367 (94.7 - 113.2%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after SR)
252+ Atk Dread Plate Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash-Shield: 288-342 (88.8 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after Spikes)


This is now up for GP!