Wow, I didn't actually expect a response. This is all hypothetical, so I can pretty much use any advice I get. Thanks!
And Arial Ace is even better due to the Technician boost, ability to kill double team users and able to kill fighting types. Dark will only hit SE on psychic pokes and you already have U-turn (or bug bite) for that purpose ;)@haggarduser: Night slash is better than pursuit for the battle subway. They rarely switch.
I am trying to develop a team for singles, i have a few different pokes i can use but would like some suggestions about which 3 to use.
Jolteon w/focus sash
Timid ~ Volt Absorb
-Hidden Power Ice
why Volt Switch and Magnet Rise... you can just do Wish + Volt Switch instead.
Modest ~ Natural Cure
-Rapid Spin (probably not needed for subway)
Rapid Spin is pointless, BS doesn't have hazards. Needs boltbeam definitely, drop either Psychic or Surf.
Dragonite w/Shell Bell
Mild ~ Inner Focus
Evs Dont Know
*He needs some work on him
2. Hyper Beam = no.
3. this guy definitely needs a LOT of rework.
Scizor w/Razor Claw
Adament ~ Technician
CB > Razor Claw. Unless you don't have PtHGSS access, Bug Bite > X-Scissor, U-Turn over Night Slash, and Superpower over Brick Break.
Jolly ~ Justified
why retaliate run SD/RP instead, also LO.
Jolly ~ Oblivious
never used mamo, no comment
so simply put, back to the drawing board, and scrap the siglyph completley. as for who I'm gonna keep, seems like ambipom has my pick. and back in tower days I used hetrain, vaporeon, and salamence and got over 50. should I build on that or go with what I have? anyway, I'll revamp the team (IE scrap about 85% of it and start over with more OU pokemon) and get back to you.Hi Neotornado, I will try to help you.
I don't feel like typing up in any nice format, so I will just give my comments and suggestions in point form in no particular order:
- Return > Double Hit. The little bit of extra power from Double Hit will not make a difference, but a miss from Double Hit will.
~ Good point. double hit does have the advantage of being multi-hit, but it's a lead. so I can easily do that replacement.
- I personally tried Aerial Ace and U-Turn and found U-Turn to be more useful, just for some small damage and switch out, because Aerial Ace was almost never used. THEN again, I was using Silk Scarf instead of Focus Sash (Silk Scarf Return is 102 * 1.5 * 1.2 = 183, while a super effective Tech AA is only 60 * 1.5 * 2 = 180, so Aerial Ace is only better on 4x weak pokemon like Heracross and Breloom, and both of those are guaranteed KOs from Fake Out + Return).
~ Another fine consideration. I never paid U-turn much thought since it didn't get the technician boost, but it IS a very useful move, so again, easy replacement.
- You will need a harder physical attacker than Ambipom. A set up sweeper might be nice. Otherwise though, Blissey, Snorlax and probably other things will wall you. Ambipom being so frail doesn't really help either. In fact, your entire team are frail sweepers that will not be able to take more than one neutral STAB hit, and sometimes not even. Low Sweep will not do enough. Low Sweep does not even OHKO 252 HP Tyranitar, so that means it always lose to Tyranitar (I always just U-Turn out) unless Stone Edge misses. Low Kick will KO Ttar though, but of course that means you'll need to get another Ambipom from Gen IV.
~ ah. that's where the focus sash comes in, and I HAD low kick until everyone told me to replace it with ankle sweep. big oops on my part, as it now seems.
- I'm not a huge fan of Sigilyph because damage output is not that amazing even with the life orb. That's not the biggest problem of course. The bigger problem is that it's not fast enough. It has decent speed, but will be outsped rather often. Yes, Magic Guard + Life Orb is cool, but if it is going to die to one hit anyway, life orb recoil does not matter at all, so you're better off using a LO Starmie or Latios for faster attacks. I know, those are fairly unoriginal pokemon to use, but there's a reason why they work.
~ I've actually had siggy survive through some super effective attacks, so you never know... but on your considerations, I DO have starmie, but not latios. (and my starmie set is the standard surf/thunderbolt/ice beam/psyshock set everyone uses, so maybe it's a good replacement?)
- I really question the usefulness of Wish for Jolteon in this team simply because ... everything is too frail, as mentioned.
~ As i mentioned, wish is only there due to lack of a move to put there, and the fact that if I do replace it, it's gone forever.
- You should use only one out of those 3 pokemon and then 2 other pokemon that are probably slightly bulkier. I would definitely choose either Ambipom or Jolteon because something like LO Starmie pretty much outclasses Sigilyph.
~ Fair enough. I should have figured personal preference got you no where (especially when your favorite is something as crappy as leafeon)
- Of course you can use LO Starmie too, in which case that's like replacing your entire team, so I'm sure you don't want that. I'm biased more towards using Jolteon because I've had more success with it, but Ambipom is pretty good too.
~ At this point, an entire team swap doesn't sound too bad, as I'm not heavily invested in any of these 3 anyway.
- If you DO take up my suggestions for Ambipom though, I'd recommend @Silk Scarf with Fake Out / Return / U-turn / Low Sweep or Low Kick if you can. If you're not going to be taking any hits anyway, you might as well boost up your fake out + Return which will KO plenty of things that do not
~ I still have to admit that I double-take every time I see silk scarf recommended over another item, like the previously mentioned life orb, but it's an option.
- I mentioned this for the previous person too. You probably want something bulky with toxic, or something bulky with stat boosting moves (Calm Mind / Curse / Dragon Dance / Swords Dance most likely). You can also put sash on the stat booster if it's hard enough attacking and fast enough (like Garchomp or Terrakion). If you look at the top 10 records in the first page, you'll see that every team has either a bulky or sashed stat booster or something bulky with Toxic, or both.
~ ah. usually when I use those they tend to get hit with things they can't bounce back from (if your wondering, the 3 mains walls I've used are standard ferrothorn, throh, and several evolite pokemon) all 3 got consistently outsped, and killed by something powerful (or just fall to hax)
- From what I recall, Curse Ferrothorn, Calm Mind Suicune, Toxic Milotic, SD Garchomp/Scizor are probably the most common ones on the records so far. I personally used a bulky DD Gyarados and a Toxic Eviolite Porygon2 in the same team for my recent 178 streak. If you are using Ambipom, having a fighting resist set-upper is probably a good idea (i.e. not Ferrothorn). If you are using Jolteon, having a ground immune for setting up is probably good (Salamence/Gyarados maybe).
~ Generally, from what I've seen, I'm trying to avoid the whole "for instant win, just ad dragons" thing. despite that, milotic seems like a good compromise, despite salamence fitting both slots AND being trained in-game.
- Forgot to mention (well, I guess I did touch briefly on it), one big problem with your current team is that it can't easily beat steel types. Like... if Jolteon's balloon is popped, there's nothing in your team that can take on steelix at all (or if it can, what if another steel type like Magnezone comes out?). Most steel types are fairly bulky on the physical side, so low sweep will not do enough damage to even 2HKO.
~ I have seen both of those, and siggy outpowered them both (with psychic and ice beam) but again, they have been major problems.
I could give more specific suggestions, but then it will probably just end up being something like my Jolteon-Gyarados-Porygon2 team, lol, since it worked well enough for me. So, well, I gave enough suggestions and hope you'll find something you can try out on your own.
if you want a Sigilyph use the Psycho Shifter set. It's quite fun, but its super stallish and can take a while to win games.before I might as well dissect this, I absolutley love whenever people take the time to write out posts like this. I really prefer it over tiny ones. XD anyway...
so simply put, back to the drawing board, and scrap the siglyph completley. as for who I'm gonna keep, seems like ambipom has my pick. and back in tower days I used hetrain, vaporeon, and salamence and got over 50. should I build on that or go with what I have? anyway, I'll revamp the team (IE scrap about 85% of it and start over with more OU pokemon) and get back to you.
Funny. I DID try P2E afterwards, and it was effective, even if it out overpowered a couple of times (toxic, burn, what have you) and it did make an effective trick roomer. although the trick room + sally doesn't mix well. (actually, my moveset's TR, recover, tri-attack, and HPwater) so... yeah. my porygon2 would NOT fit well on the team. XD maybe replace TR and HPwater with boltbeam? I'd be walled by magnezone, but that's what sallyquake is for! and my main vaporeon's modest, unfortunately. so I have sally and porygon2. (sally = salamence. XD) I'm thinkin' something like heatrain for slot 3, but that's more of a lead than anything. so far my considerations are...Ambipom + Vaporeon (I'm assuming it's bold or Calm?) + Salamence sounds like it can work. In that case Jolteon might work better than Ambipom though, being faster and harder hitting and having the nice electric immunity switching in on electric attacks aimed at Vaporeon. But sure, Ambipom's fine too.
(Probably something like this can work? Just my initial thought: Vaporeon @ Leftovers - Scald or Surf / Toxic / Wish / Filler=(Ice Beam/Icy Wind/Sub/Acid Armor)
Also, I suggest... you edit your post to not quote my long post :P.
EDIT: actually lol nevermind lol, I didn't realize you put your comments on it as well... sorry.
EDIT2: Just want to say, Eviolite P2 is amazing if you haven't tried it yet :P. Just don't leave it against STAB fighting types. After an intimidate (if you use Salamence) it easily stalls out plenty of things with Toxic + recover. Two back to back fighting move crits can kill you, sure, but it doesn't happen that often. Plus, there's trace that lets you wall so many things. ... obviously wouldn't recommend Ambipom + Porygon2 together though.
*got out of a magnezone battle when said def drops happened* then again, I also paralyzed a +4 honchkrow while trick room was up with tri-attack, so... XD Yeah. my hetrain is sub/flamethrower/earthpower/HPice. max speed and sp. attack. and what moves should I use on suicine if I'm using rest? (I'm using CM + 3 attacking moves)With Recover, Eviolite P2 will always beat Magnezone (without Charge Beam) unless you get some fairly ridiculous crit hax or paralyze hax or Flash Cannon Sp Def drops. Magnezone shouldn't be a consideration if you're just thinking about HP Water.
Sally would very much like an ice resisting partner. So initial thought would be Heatran or Suicune. I'm more inclined towards Suicune partially because I've had more success with that, but it's also just better for your team I think. P2 can take care of most electric types (It's awesome how most of the hard hitting electric types have lighting rod / volt absorb / motor drive that Porygon2 can just switch in and wall to death... of course too bad Magnezone isn't one of those). And obviously Salamence can switch into grass moves fine.
On the other hand, Sally's Intimidate will allow Suicune to set up a lot easier (I'm assuming Bold Calm Mind with Rest of course). So there is a fairly good synergy between all 3. Heatran has good synergy too... Not sure what set you'd be using. Every Heatran set I've used before have been at most just decent though...
Anyway good luck.