General consensus seems to be that LO and Scarf are his best options, depending on what you want to do. Scarf is good for overall utility and hitting hard and fast. Scouting with U-Turn is nice. Bulk-Up Orb allows you to switch attacks and has a bit more survivability, plus very good damage output as well. Even though Wargle will probably be UU, or BL at best, I could see these sets being perfectly viable in OU. Also, I've been thinking about it more, and though it seems ridiculous at first, I want to hear second opinions. Superpower is obviously useful for handling Rocks and Steels, but the stat drops and Orb recoil are really undesirable on the Bulk-Up set. Could Rock Smash have any merit? Encourage bumps it to 60 BP, and it doesn't take recoil, so its similar to running a Hidden Power for coverage, but physical. Like I said, it seems foolish compared to SP's massive damage, but its an idea, especially since Wargle may not want to stay in on most Rock-types anyway. What do you fellow fans think?
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Braviary
- Thread starter WingedKnight
- Start date
Maybe on Bulk Up sets. Anything else, probably not.
Encourage only boosts Rock Smash to 52 also, and then LO boosts it to 67. So it's still pretty weak, but you're right. It is basically like using HP.
Derp. No, Competitive heart only rises de Attack +1, no +2.
Kirikizan with this abilty nullifies Gyaras' Intimidate (that does -1 in Attack), so he can't get any reducition from Gyara.
The same for Wargle.
Anyway, I think that the self-effects of Trash and Superpower are ideal for use U-turn.
Another thing useful, at my point, is Free Fall.
Works similar that Fly, but the opponent can't do nothing in the turn that is in the skies.
Well, altrought Wargle have things "that-i-dunno", can be a good PKMN.
See you.
Kirikizan with this abilty nullifies Gyaras' Intimidate (that does -1 in Attack), so he can't get any reducition from Gyara.
The same for Wargle.
Anyway, I think that the self-effects of Trash and Superpower are ideal for use U-turn.
Another thing useful, at my point, is Free Fall.
Works similar that Fly, but the opponent can't do nothing in the turn that is in the skies.
Well, altrought Wargle have things "that-i-dunno", can be a good PKMN.
See you.
Ohh right, 1.3 Multiplier not 1.5. *Facepalm*
Well, regardless my point still stands. I realize most people are going to want that high damage output of Superpower for the Pokemon who wall Crush Claw and Rock Slide, but it really leaves you messed up after. It cripples your offense and defense, negating any Bulk-Up you pulled, AND Life Orb recoil kicks in. I'm kinda torn on this, but I'm trying to decide if the recoil-less nature of Rock Smash makes it worthwhile, having it present for coverage and nothing more, keeping up the main assault with Claw and Slide.
Well... calcs would help. :P
If he can still take out any counters/walls with Rock Smash, it would be viable. I don't see Skarmory being affected by it too much, and Nattorei should still be able to take at least 3 Rock Smashes (but it can't really do anything back). Bronzong and Forretress aren't going to care too much about either attack.
So really, Rock Smash doesn't seem too bad, as it doesn't seem to give a whole lot of an advantage over Steels. But really, you shouldn't be staying in on them anyway.
Someone who's better than me at the math can run calcs, I'm totally clueless.
I'd reckon in Skarm's case you'd prefer to use Rock Slide, since it hits for neutral anyway, is stronger, and can flinchhax from time to time. As you said, Nattorei, Bronzong, and Forretress are gonna stand in your way pretty strongly no matter what (I certainly don't want to deal with Iron Barbs for one thing!).
So the question remains as to what move is best for that slot. Superpower for outright power, Rock Smash as a failsafe against incoming minerals, or a different move entirely? I think it's safe to say the Crush Claw and Rock Slide are staples with Encourage-Orb.
I'd reckon in Skarm's case you'd prefer to use Rock Slide, since it hits for neutral anyway, is stronger, and can flinchhax from time to time. As you said, Nattorei, Bronzong, and Forretress are gonna stand in your way pretty strongly no matter what (I certainly don't want to deal with Iron Barbs for one thing!).
So the question remains as to what move is best for that slot. Superpower for outright power, Rock Smash as a failsafe against incoming minerals, or a different move entirely? I think it's safe to say the Crush Claw and Rock Slide are staples with Encourage-Orb.
Sounds a little gimmicky, but don't let that stop you from giving it a shot.
I've been using LO Bulk Up Wargle on the servers. Overall...decidedly average. He's undeniably a powerful Pokemon, and Bulk Up only boosts that punch, but he's certainly not taking the field by absolute storm. I feel like if he was a hair faster, or a touch bulkier, he would have so much more impact. Still, I'm impressed with the beating he can take, and under certain circumstances he can function quite well. To me, seems like he'll be a strong Choiced or set-up UU mon, BL at best, with decent usability in Standard. Sound about right?
Not at all, Staraptor has a much more important base 100 speed stat to use high powered moves from the get go, and still gets boosts for it's attacks in the form of Reckless.
Superpower is a decent move for Wargle, but just about forces him to switch out after using it (or nullify Bulk Up boosts) and he doesn't have enough moves to use to take advantage of with Encourage. Keen Eye is nearly useless, and Competitive Spirit is really circumstantial. The stat distribution between the two is different enough for them to play different roles, though they can play similar ones. Really the choice between Staraptor and Wargle is speed vs. bulk.
He has a lot of high powered attacks, but most of them are recoil moves that take away from his fairly decent bulk. To top it off, Wargle doesn't get any recovery moves. His stat distribution allows him the opportunity of a bulky attacker, but he would benefit a lot if he had some HP stealing attacks, though it wouldn't make sense for him to get something like Drain Punch (then again, why did most birds learn Heat Wave?).
Heat Wave is apparently "Hot Wind" in Japanese, so it makes a BIT more sense. As for additional moves, I could ALMOSTALMOST see Wargle getting Elemental Punches, since those are always 3rd Game Tutor moves and his burly talons MIGHT be able to get the job done in GF's eyes. Really, just one more solid Encourage-abusing move. One good one...
In some ways I wish he got Agility over Bulk Up, but Bulk Up at least prevents Superpower from totally crippling him, though it should be used sparingly. With a bulky attacker set, Life Orb goes quite nicely with Rock Slide and Crush Claw, so there's that. Finding the set up chance is the hardest part, and not getting revenged.
Well on the topic of switch ins, I suppose we could try seeing how bulkier spreads work out for Wargle so we can see what it can switch in on. It resists grass and bug while being immune to ground and ghost, did I miss anything?
I think choice band sets that switch in on resistances/immunities would be a terror to try and avoid. 123 base attack hits really damn hard, especially with all of Wargle's high power moves.
I think choice band sets that switch in on resistances/immunities would be a terror to try and avoid. 123 base attack hits really damn hard, especially with all of Wargle's high power moves.
You can try that, but his speed is kinda bad, so he can be easily outspeed by other pokemons
I'm thinking saving him for late game would be best using a Band. With how bulky he is, he could take an attack or two before falling, so long as he isn't locked into Brave Bird.
Wargle is definitely best in late game. Well, Scarf makes him a good revenge kille (STAB Retribution yeeaahh) but if you're going Band or Life Orb I think he'd work best as a late game bulky attacker. The only question is how to distribute EVs so he can take more hits but still punch back, especially if he' going to be setting up with Bulk Up. Or Tailwind? Big Q Mark there, but especially in late game it just migh, MIGHT be worth it? I've found his biggest problem with setting up isn't lack of power, but surviving to set-up only to be outsped and killed next turn.
Does Wargle do anything great late game that other Pokemon can't do instead?
Not particularly from what I've seen, to be honest. Like I said, he's definitely a good Pokemon, but he isn't exceptional or mind-blowingly useful in any way. He can do a fair job, but he shares that job with many other mons, so it all comes down to personal preference. He's a pretty good late-game cleaner, but that can be said about a lot of people. If he does land in UU, he'll probably be a pretty desirable choice. In OU, he can hold his own, so he'll see some usage, but at the end of the day there are so many other choices for the job. Its pretty obvious he won't be a top tier OU threat, but I'm still pleased with how he can manage.
i actually tested a max hp and atack bulk up set to decent sucess, most steels wont have the guts to switch knowing you can hit them with a +1 superpower and brave bird hits extremely hard. he even survived starmie ice beam once(albeit taking high damage). people dont appear to understand 100/75/75 defs are nothing to joke about, he is bulkier then scizor on the special side(altough it lack the great typing) and bulk up really helps taking physical hits, its actually good he got base 100 hp instead of def or special defense as it allow you to brave bird more often, specially when using leftovers.
the only problem is lack of speed and CC and those are really the only problems so far, SR is not gonna be common as it was on gen 4 because of the lack of users. plus he is a motherfucking american Eagle, how can you not love it?
the only problem is lack of speed and CC and those are really the only problems so far, SR is not gonna be common as it was on gen 4 because of the lack of users. plus he is a motherfucking american Eagle, how can you not love it?
So I did a calc for a Jolly Encourage-Orb (I actually used the Metronome item with its count at 7, which is 1% higher) Wargle's Rock Smash vs max/max Impish Nattorei, and it's a 4HKO. Always. Tbh, I don't think it's worth it at all; it's too weak of a move to try to spam there. I won't even run the calcs on Bronzong and Skarmory, as they take neutral damage anyway...
If it's a must to take out Steels, then Superpower is its only quick option. However, as stated before, Wargle shouldn't be taking them on at all.
If it's a must to take out Steels, then Superpower is its only quick option. However, as stated before, Wargle shouldn't be taking them on at all.
Flail Like You Mean It
Wargle @ Choice Band/Choice Scarf
Nature: Adamant/Jolly
Ability: Competitive Spirit/Encourage
Ev's: 252 Spd/252Atk/ 4 Def
Moves
~Thrash
~Brave Bird
~Super Power
~Rock Slide
Can pack quite a hard punch with max attack adamant Choice Banded Stab'd 120 BP Thrash. Other moves are for coverage.
I don't much like being forced into Thrash for a means of damage. Even though it'll hit like a truck, it's not Outrage. It doesn't have stupdendous neutral coverage and only needing to worry over Steels.
Unless it's using bulk up, it's outclassed by Staraptor. Rock Slide doesn't hit anything important, and Encourage Crush Claw about the same as STAB return. True he does get lo-less attacks, but only a few and he's not dishing out nearly as much damage as raptor would with bb, unless he's taking advantage of not being choice locked and using bulk up.