OU Breloom

Unowninator said:
If you want an attack boost, why not Swords Dance?
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because it can damage the opponent and get stronger each time. The damage of two will often turn a 3HKO into a 2HKO, effectively giving you the same boost in the same amount of time while still being able to keep boosting with more ease than with Swords Dance, not to mention it gives Breloom an extra moveslot to work with.
 
gamer boy said:
because it can damage the opponent and get stronger each time. The damage of two will often turn a 3HKO into a 2HKO, effectively giving you the same boost in the same amount of time while still being able to keep boosting with more ease than with Swords Dance, not to mention it gives Breloom an extra moveslot to work with.
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Show some 3hkos being turned into 2hkos then.
 
gamer boy said:
because it can damage the opponent and get stronger each time. The damage of two will often turn a 3HKO into a 2HKO, effectively giving you the same boost in the same amount of time while still being able to keep boosting with more ease than with Swords Dance, not to mention it gives Breloom an extra moveslot to work with.
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The main issue I have with PuP is the opportunity cost of running it. In other words, what you're giving up.
  • Spore: The most reliable sleep move in the game that provides your team with free turns.
  • Force Palm: A reliable and very strong Fighting-type move with no downsides and a great 30% paralyze chance, which Breloom LOVES due to its low speed.
  • Bullet Seed: Another great STAB attack; can reach ridiculous levels of power and allows Breloom to seriously threaten Rotom-W, a Pokemon that most other physical attackers struggle with.
  • Mach Punch: Technician-boosted Priority—one of the main reasons to use Breloom in the first place.
  • Rock Tomb: Aids in obliterating out some of Breloom's most common checks, preventing the opponent from mindlessly switching them in.
Ask yourself: are ANY of those moves worth giving up for a weak, slow, and coverage-wise completely redundant move that acts as a worse Swords Dance? The answer is easily no.
 
ok. point made. preten i said nothing

edit (about 1/2 hour later): just a side note, but it isn't completely useless so maybe OO?
 
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On iPod so shortish post. Spore being slashed with anything in this analysis is silly. Literally, half the reason to use Breloom is Spore, which allows it to take out significant foes on the opposing team. Breloom sucks against Grass-types either way, especially Leech Seed variants. And Mandibuzz (assuming it lacks BB) is Rock Tombed/Leech Seed + Protect + Drain Punch stalled. Remove all of the slashes with Spore, please.

I also think the first set should not have Force Palm slashed. Rock Tomb is way too important for coverage, hitting so many things that threaten Breloom. Force Palm has...paralysis? I don't think that's worth giving up the Rock Tomb coverage.

Remove the Jolly slash. You outrun Adamant Mamo and Modest Tran, and that's about it. Flatly, I don't think a couple things are worth giving up that power. Especially because you can just use Rock Tomb and lower their Speed to where Breloom outruns them anyways.

Oh, and Leech Seed needs 60 Speed EVs to outrun min Heatran (I actually run enough for 24 Spe ones or creep more if I feel like it, but no Speed creep allowed here).
 
Unowninator said:
I'm not sure if Force Palm is a good idea; what if you paralyze something you'd want to put to sleep?
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The Palm in general was recommended by alexwolf as a better way to handle Ferrothorn since it takes nothing from Mach Punch and providing Breloom with a stronger STAB fightng move.
 
PuP also gives Ghost-types another opportunity to switch into Breloom (Aegislash especially). At least Swords Dance guarantees a +2 boost and can help Breloom muscle through weakened Aegislash.

But like jukain said - Breloom has a hard time sacrificing one of its attacks for even Swords Dance. Usually a paralyzed opponent is just as good as a sleeping opponent.
 
Epikhairz0603

lets get this show on the road. Firstly, deslash force palm from the main set, Breloom is not worth using without spore, and Rock Tomb is way too important/useful to give up. Yes Mach Punch is weak but it still bops anything weak to it well and Bullet Seed has all the muscle. Team options really need something for venu, like Latios or something. Heatran isnt a venu counter.

Secondly, can you explain to me why the leech seed set is specially defensive? I've fought it and used it and it definitely SHOULD be bulky and not fast but no attack investment? Whose idea was this and why was it deemed good? Even some attack would be nice to complement Drain Punch's healing giving some pseudo bulk. I'm not exactly sure what spread to use there but fully specially defensive seems odd and sub optimal? Team options need work on the second set, too

  • Excadrill has good type synergy with Breloom and can spin hazards away
  • Hazard setters like Smeargle or Forretress will force anything coming in to lose a chunk of HP
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Firstly, Breloom is stupidly resistant to hazards. It resists stealth rock, and has poison heal to deal with spikes so a spinner should not be mentioned. Yes, having no hazards is fine but if every single analysis says "bring a spinner" then it makes it unimportant to say so. SEcondly, why does excadrill have good synergy with Breloom again? If it does, state why that is the case. Secondly, smeargle and Forry are rly bad hazard users! Hazard use is definitely something leech seed spamming pokes really benefit their team with. Landorus, Terrakion, Heatran, Skarmory, these are choice hazard users.

So yeah the only thing that really needs work is team options. Beef those up, ill try and get back to you on the leech seed set spread.
 
I would go for a spread of 252 HP / 164 Atk / 32 Def / 60 Spe with an Adamant nature.

60 Speed EVs outruns minimum speed Heatran.
252 HP / 32 Def maximizes HP bulk while preventing you from being OHKO'd by Conkeldurr's Ice Punch, allowing you to Seed / Spore.
The rest is thrown in attack to buff up your Drain Punch.

I calc'd nearly every other OU threat, and I couldn't find any other spreads. Most Pokemon either outright OHKO Breloom or can be stalled out.
 
I am a huge fan of this set:

Breloom @ Toxic Orb
Poison Heal
Jolly Nature
4 HP / 252 SpDef / 252 Spd
-Substitute
-Drain Punch
-Leech Seed
-Spore

Spore is Breloom's most important move. This is not arguable. Therefore, max speed investment should be used to set up spore as quickly as possible. Defensive stats are not as important behind substitute, but there is max SpDef to deal with weaker/resisted attacks and even a few stronger ones, such as Thundurus-I's HP Ice at full health. Leech seed is very important for longevity, and while I prefer drain punch to add to this, some prefer focus punch. Since there is only one attacking move, attack EVs are a waste, as stall is the sole reason for this set's existence.

Good partners for this set include SpDef Heatran and Physically Defensive Zapdos. Zapdos to deal with Mega Pinsir, Heatran for stealth rock support and dealing with grass types that wall Breloom entirely. This set paired with Zapdos with Toxic + Roost makes for a very effective stall core (as people realized a long time ago).
 
OK made all QC changes!

I don't agree with the above set though, because Breloom's SpD is pretty bad; even with investment it's not hard to get past
 
hi we talked this over please change the spread back...special bulk is so useful as a keld/thund check, and is useful to like take a plume from tran and not die which is needed because you don't ohko it.
 
yes I endorse the sdef spread, I just didnt know what it was for, but those two threats are real.
 
Add to the overview that it's slow, please.

Breloom can also use Force Palm over Rock Tomb as a reliable and more powerful secondary STAB attack if it needs to hit harder than it would with Mach Punch, and is useful for getting past defensive threats like Ferrothorn and Mandibuzz.
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Rock Tomb does more to Mandibuzz than Force Palm. 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Rock Tomb vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mandibuzz: 195-231 (45.9 - 54.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Hippowdon can't really easily take care of Dragonite. With Whirlwind it can be an adequate counter, but it's not a great answer, so I wouldn't mention it for that in Team Options. Aegislash and Talonflame mentions stand, though.

On Leech Seed Breloom, I think Spore is definitely better than Rock Tomb. The set doesn't even use Technician or Attack investment, so it's very weak, and it's not like Rock Tomb is doing much to Mandibuzz or Mega Venusaur to justify using it over Spore. I know Pokemon can block Spore, but there's a lot more Pokemon that can be affected by it, and I'd prefer to see Spore as the sole slash.

In Usage Tips, it's best to Leech Seed on predicted switches. Once you've done that, as long as you're not worried about the Pokemon in front of you setting up, feel free to Protect to stall more. Stress that they need to keep Leech Seed on the opponent as much as possible and stall like that. Leech Seed Breloom forces a lot of switches, which is another reason that hazard setters are good teammates.

I requested some fairly large changes to the Leech Seed set, so I'd like for you to post saying that you've done these once you have, at which point I'll stamp. If you disagree with any of the changes, feel free to explain why.
 
Changes implemented thanks!

I had the slow thing in the skeleton but it must've gotten lost while i was writing this :[
 
Once Leech Seed is set up, Breloom can stall with Protect if it is not worried about about the opposing Pokemon.
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You just forgot to add the part about the opposing Pokemon setting up.

Other than that, great work! Let's get this to GP.

Stamp.gif


QC 4/4
 
I reckon Trevenant and Gourgeist should be mentioned in the checks and counters section. They are both immune to spore, leech seed, mach punch and drain punch, take relatively small amounts of damage from rock tomb and bullet seed, and can inflict a burn. They are solid counters especially to the leech seed set.
 
MyNameIsVeryCreative said:
I reckon Trevenant and Gourgeist should be mentioned in the checks and counters section. They are both immune to spore, leech seed, mach punch and drain punch, take relatively small amounts of damage from rock tomb and bullet seed, and can inflict a burn. They are solid counters especially to the leech seed set.
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Trevenant was rejected for an OU analysis but I completely agree with what your saying
 
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