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1833 1887 178-msg_r221r0101_admin_02 What an amazing Pokémon you’ve caught! I’ll give you a statue that looks just like it!
(guess this is how you get legendary statues for the underground? Bet they have super high effectiveness)
Aaand it sounds like we have hope!
Someone shared a Reddit post with me on Twitter because it related to my Grand Underground sheet, and this was one of the comments:
While we don't know for sure what items are available in this way, this gives us some crucial new information: like the Wild Area, there will be some evolution items to pick up on the ground in the Grand Underground (possibly in fixed locations), not only from mining! That includes the Dusk Stone, which was never available through mining in the original Underground, and... considering the devs' apparent policy that above-ground Sinnoh should change in as few obvious ways as possible and the Underground is where basically all of the fixes and new content are crammed in already, it seems very plausible(though still unconfirmed) that this is where they'd hide all of the formerly-postgame evolution items that we'll have reason to want in the main story for the first time.
And speaking of the Grand Underground sheet, one last update...!!
The Reddit post I mentioned above was an explanation by one /u/Self-ProclaimedKing attributing all 20 unknown encounter tables from my sheet to specific places in the Grand Underground - to be clear, this is technically an unconfirmed theory, but it's a very well-reasoned one that makes total sense. In addition, their seven Cavern guesses matched up in obvious ways to the seven Cavern names in the order they're listed in the game data, so there is strong reason to believe their assumptions are on point!
Accordingly, I have added all of these specific biomes, including the in-game names of the Caverns, to my sheet and changed the color-coding to correspond more clearly to the map!
I also added said map to the first tab of the sheet for ease of access (and moved the clarifying notes/explanation to their own section alongside it rather than shoving them to the top of the encounter tables, which I hope makes the sheet as a whole easier to parse).
This is a super exciting update and makes the sheet a lot more practical to use when figuring out Pokémon availability and even just trying to find things ("Zone 3" doesn't exactly tell you much about where Cherubi is actually found, does it?).
I also have taken the opportunity to provide a rough list of which biomes and caverns are available in each section of the Underground:
SOUTHWEST(available immediately by the time you get the Explorer Kit!)
- Sand
- Grass
- Water
- Marsh
- Grass/Water
- Sunlit Cavern
MAIN UNDERGROND(available immediately by the time you get the Explorer Kit!)
- Sand
- Grass
- Water
- Canyon
- Lava
- Crystal
- Grass/Water
- Lava/Canyon
- Still-Water Cavern
- Big Bluff Cavern
SOUTHEAST(confirmed available from Route 213 - only requires 2 Badges)
- Sand
- Water
- Canyon
- Marsh
- Lava/Canyon
- Bogsunk Cavern
SMALL CENTER(accessible from Celestic in the originals, which requires 4 badges at the latest, but I dunno where else - it could be sooner if parts of Mt. Coronet count?)
- Crystal
- Glacier
- Stargleam Cavern
NORTHWEST(comparatively lategame? corresponds maybe to the Snowpoint area; Bulbapedia only says it's available from Fullmoon and Newmoon Islands but I don't think the whole section is postgame)
- Sand
- Crystal
- Snow
- Glacier
- Glacial Cavern
NORTHEAST(probably postgame but does not require the National Dex - corresponds to the Battle Zone)
- Sand
- Grass
- Water
- Canyon
- Lava
- Marsh
- Crystal
- Lava/Canyon
- Typhlo Cavern
The above list was just eyeballing, though; not totally positive as to whether I might have missed any! Notably: this confirms at leastall biomes except Snow/Glacier are accessible from the moment the player receives the Explorer Kit, although some of the specific named Caverns are accessed later in the game.
On a last related note, since I mentioned the ordered list of caverns from the game data, this is worth having as well:
If you can get Razor Fangs in the underground I might finally use gligar, but I dunno...not getting my hopes up too much.
It could just be a thing of "evolution stones are scattered underground" or "you can find stuff you can mine"
I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet due to a lot of kvetching about whether or not Game Good or Game Bad, but there's a few inconsistencies in some of the learnset data and Trainer data which might indicate that some Pokemon may not be able to obtain their "full" movesets to some extent until there is an outside change.
For those who are competitively minded, the most prominent ones that caught my eye are Magnezone, Zapdos, and Venusaur:
As you can see from some of these sets, some Pokemon are missing vital moves that could affect their competitive viability; Magnezone no longer has Hidden Power to rely on, and if Body Press doesn't make it back into the learnset (somehow) it will have a much more difficult time holistically trapping Steel types for its team; Venusaur lacking Weather Ball, Hidden Power, or Earth Power will significantly affect the viability of Sun teams to break through checks like Dragonite and Heatran; Zapdos lacking not just any but all of Weather Ball, Hurricane, Hidden Power, and Heat Wave will significantly hurt its coverage to the point where Zapdos will have some of the most poor coverage it has had since RBY.
I don't bring this up to like diss the games or whatever, but more to raise questions on how many conclusions we can draw on how accurate our understanding is of all the content within them, and what the competitive scene will inevitably become.
If you can get Razor Fangs in the underground I might finally use gligar, but I dunno...not getting my hopes up too much.
It could just be a thing of "evolution stones are scattered underground" or "you can find stuff you can mine"
I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet due to a lot of kvetching about whether or not Game Good or Game Bad, but there's a few inconsistencies in some of the learnset data and Trainer data which might indicate that some Pokemon may not be able to obtain their "full" movesets to some extent until there is an outside change.
For those who are competitively minded, the most prominent ones that caught my eye are Magnezone, Zapdos, and Venusaur:
As you can see from some of these sets, some Pokemon are missing vital moves that could affect their competitive viability; Magnezone no longer has Hidden Power to rely on, and if Body Press doesn't make it back into the learnset (somehow) it will have a much more difficult time holistically trapping Steel types for its team; Venusaur lacking Weather Ball, Hidden Power, or Earth Power will significantly affect the viability of Sun teams to break through checks like Dragonite and Heatran; Zapdos lacking not just any but all of Weather Ball, Hurricane, Hidden Power, and Heat Wave will significantly hurt its coverage to the point where Zapdos will have some of the most poor coverage it has had since RBY.
I don't bring this up to like diss the games or whatever, but more to raise questions on how many conclusions we can draw on how accurate our understanding is of all the content within them, and what the competitive scene will inevitably become.
I don't think we're going to see additional "fixes" or additions to the game (or at least not to this extent): what we see is what we'll get. The one exceptoin being that hey, there should, probably, be an update to remove that Feitn Attack from that one trainer's Delcatty before someone crashes the game.
I didn't realize you were talking about them going up against Garchomp. Yeah, Infernape and maybe Empoleon are at a disadvantage, but honestly Torterra ain't a great match either. Honestly you shouldn't be using your Starter against Cynthia's Garchomp, you're better off with a Pokemon that can use a Fairy move to get around that Yache Berry.
Really underscores how GameFreak probably kinda should'a come up with a Rock-type jaw move by now
(...)
It's a profound shame that almost every Rock attack is some variation of "throw pebbles at enemy." The only exceptions on the physical side are Head Smash (good), Rollout (lol), and Accelerock (coyotes only). A little variety goes a long way. Just ask the up-and-coming superbug Kleavor... who will probably be keeping Stone Axe to himself greedily, leaving the Rock type in the same pickle as he found it.
I know, right? Though I will say coming up with Rock-type moves that isn't "throws rock" is a bit harder then I thought. Like the Rock-type moves I made up I had to get creative with why they're Rock-type, with a few just coming down to "because, ugh, they're charge with Rock-type energy". So while I don't blame GF for not having the widest range of Rock-type moves, there are a few Rock-type moves they could still add:
Coarse Fangs (Psychic Fangs copy. Biting move)
Stone Horn (Darkest Lariat copy)
Salt Stab (Physical. Brine copy)
Heavy Crush (Heavy Slam copy)
Crystal Crash (Icicle Crash copy)
Rough Strike (Metal Claw copy)
Bone Break (Throat Chop expy. Prevents Punching, Kicking, & Bone moves)
Glass Shrapnel (Storm Throw copy. Doesn't make contact)
Sand Wave (Physical. Power 120. Accuracy 70%. Targets everyone but the user. Doesn't make contact; Cannot miss in Sandstorm)
Grind Chisel (Physical. Power 80. Target adjacent. If this move doesn't do a Critical Hit, its Power goes down by 10 (doesn't go below 50) and Critical Hit Ratio for this move increases by +1 stage. Once this move does a Critical Hit the Power and Critical Hit Ratio resets)(NOTE: If this moves sounds a bit odd, it's because its a move concept I thought up and a few Types have a copy of it)
Boulder Fall (Physical. Target adjacent. OHKO Move; Accuracy goes off weight: ((User's kg Weight - Target's kg Weight) / 10) + 30 = Accuracy)
Of of course the obligatory Special Rock-type moves:
while Mew can utilize several coverage moves because its Mew AKA “I get fucking everything under the sun lmao”, Jirachi got the REALLY short end of the stick. Just take a look at its moveset!
Yo know the Battle Tower is still in the game, right?
Though it would be interesting if before facing a Gym Leader, each Elite Four member, and the Champion you're told to put a limited amount of items into a "Battle Bag" and you only have those items accessible when facing them (putting you on even ground as they'll also be restricted by what's in their Battle Bag). Though that would be something for a higher difficulty mode which which they don't do (I'd also imagine such a mode would also restrict the number of Pokemon you can use equal to the Gym Leader's and lower your Pokemon to the max level of their highest Pokemon).
I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet due to a lot of kvetching about whether or not Game Good or Game Bad, but there's a few inconsistencies in some of the learnset data and Trainer data which might indicate that some Pokemon may not be able to obtain their "full" movesets to some extent until there is an outside change.
For those who are competitively minded, the most prominent ones that caught my eye are Magnezone, Zapdos, and Venusaur:
As you can see from some of these sets, some Pokemon are missing vital moves that could affect their competitive viability; Magnezone no longer has Hidden Power to rely on, and if Body Press doesn't make it back into the learnset (somehow) it will have a much more difficult time holistically trapping Steel types for its team; Venusaur lacking Weather Ball, Hidden Power, or Earth Power will significantly affect the viability of Sun teams to break through checks like Dragonite and Heatran; Zapdos lacking not just any but all of Weather Ball, Hurricane, Hidden Power, and Heat Wave will significantly hurt its coverage to the point where Zapdos will have some of the most poor coverage it has had since RBY.
I don't bring this up to like diss the games or whatever, but more to raise questions on how many conclusions we can draw on how accurate our understanding is of all the content within them, and what the competitive scene will inevitably become.
Why doesn't anyone get HP? Because they brought it back specifically as Unown's signature move and nothing else.
Why doesn't Zapdos get Heat Wave or Hurricane? Because It only got those moves as a Move Tutor or TR. BDSP uses the DP TM list, but with some of the "cut" moves being replaced with newer moves; however Heat Wave & Hurricane were not made TMs, and there are no "standard" Tutors in this game, ergo Zapdos cannot learn them any more.
Same goes for Venusaur. It only got Weather Ball by SWSH TM (& a gen 5 event which is probably why it got it in SWSH at all) and only got Earth Power by TR.
I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet due to a lot of kvetching about whether or not Game Good or Game Bad, but there's a few inconsistencies in some of the learnset data and Trainer data which might indicate that some Pokemon may not be able to obtain their "full" movesets to some extent until there is an outside change.
For those who are competitively minded, the most prominent ones that caught my eye are Magnezone, Zapdos, and Venusaur:
As you can see from some of these sets, some Pokemon are missing vital moves that could affect their competitive viability; Magnezone no longer has Hidden Power to rely on, and if Body Press doesn't make it back into the learnset (somehow) it will have a much more difficult time holistically trapping Steel types for its team; Venusaur lacking Weather Ball, Hidden Power, or Earth Power will significantly affect the viability of Sun teams to break through checks like Dragonite and Heatran; Zapdos lacking not just any but all of Weather Ball, Hurricane, Hidden Power, and Heat Wave will significantly hurt its coverage to the point where Zapdos will have some of the most poor coverage it has had since RBY.
I don't bring this up to like diss the games or whatever, but more to raise questions on how many conclusions we can draw on how accurate our understanding is of all the content within them, and what the competitive scene will inevitably become.
I think It comes down to HOME allowing SWSH mons in BDSP next year, just wait and see.
And without Ferrothorn and few others, Magnezone shouldnt need body press to stay relevant, but is too soon to tell.
Why doesn't anyone get HP? Because they brought it back specifically as Unown's signature move and nothing else.
Why doesn't Zapdos get Heat Wave or Hurricane? Because It only got those moves as a Move Tutor or TR. BDSP uses the DP TM list, but with some of the "cut" moves being replaced with newer moves; however Heat Wave & Hurricane were not made TMs, and there are no "standard" Tutors in this game, ergo Zapdos cannot learn them any more.
Same goes for Venusaur. It only got Weather Ball by SWSH TM (& a gen 5 event which is probably why it got it in SWSH at all) and only got Earth Power by TR.
I don't think anyone has pointed this out yet due to a lot of kvetching about whether or not Game Good or Game Bad, but there's a few inconsistencies in some of the learnset data and Trainer data which might indicate that some Pokemon may not be able to obtain their "full" movesets to some extent until there is an outside change.
For those who are competitively minded, the most prominent ones that caught my eye are Magnezone, Zapdos, and Venusaur:
As you can see from some of these sets, some Pokemon are missing vital moves that could affect their competitive viability; Magnezone no longer has Hidden Power to rely on, and if Body Press doesn't make it back into the learnset (somehow) it will have a much more difficult time holistically trapping Steel types for its team; Venusaur lacking Weather Ball, Hidden Power, or Earth Power will significantly affect the viability of Sun teams to break through checks like Dragonite and Heatran; Zapdos lacking not just any but all of Weather Ball, Hurricane, Hidden Power, and Heat Wave will significantly hurt its coverage to the point where Zapdos will have some of the most poor coverage it has had since RBY.
I don't bring this up to like diss the games or whatever, but more to raise questions on how many conclusions we can draw on how accurate our understanding is of all the content within them, and what the competitive scene will inevitably become.
Magnezone should be fine. Hidden Power Fire needs a 4x advantage or 2x effectivess alongside a Electric resistance to be worth over STAB Thunderbolt, but with Ferrothorn not being in the game and Scizor lacking Superpower, Specs Magnezone actually sounds like a wonderful Pokemon here alongside other Dragon-types for the old DragMag even.
Yeah, we get basically Azumarill, Mr. Mime, Gardevoir, Clefable, Granbull, Mawile, and Togekiss, so even Outrage as a move can make a resurgence, as I doubt Granbull, Mawile, Mr. Mime, and honestly Gardevoir too will make any big splash on the tier overall
Yeah, we get basically Azumarill, Mr. Mime, Gardevoir, Clefable, Granbull, Mawile, and Togekiss, so even Outrage as a move can make a resurgence, as I doubt Granbull, Mawile, Mr. Mime, and honestly Gardevoir too will make any big splash on the tier overall
That mean SD Poison Jab Garchomp has almost no checks, and with Zone to trap Skarm it will be just as broken as it was back in the day, what a faithful remake.
That mean SD Poison Jab Garchomp has almost no checks, and with Zone to trap Skarm it will be just as broken as it was back in the day, what a faithful remake.
Iron Head and Poison Jab are both barely stronger than a STAB Earthquake (160 BP vs 150 BP), so either one won't make much impact and it's mainly Togekiss that could make give you a reason to run coverage, which is covered by Stone Edge.
Iron Head and Poison Jab are both barely stronger than a STAB Earthquake (160 BP vs 150 BP), so either one won't make much impact and it's mainly Togekiss that could make give you a reason to run coverage, which is covered by Stone Edge.
Iron Head vs. Poison Jab really comes down to hitting Mamoswine or Azumarill for SE damage as far as I can tell. I guess they opted for the latter. There wasn't really a wrong choice between the two.
Shit like Froslass, Weavile and Jynx are going to fold to an EQ anyway, at reasonable levels.
Stone Edge would've been a shit move for coverage, obviously due to accuracy. Which is one of the reasons why I think Chomp upgrading from Dragon Rush to Dragon Claw was a solid move set change.
Iron Head vs. Poison Jab really comes down to hitting Mamoswine or Azumarill for SE damage as far as I can tell. I guess they opted for the latter. There wasn't really a wrong choice they could make between the two.
Shit like Froslass, Weavile and Jynx are going to fold to an EQ anyway, at reasonable levels.
Stone Edge would've been a shit move for coverage, obviously due to accuracy. One of the reasons why I think Chomp upgrading from Dragon Rush to Dragon Claw was a solid move set change.
Not that hitting Mamoswine for super effective damage would be much use, given its tendency to simply click Ice Shard rather than take damage, and the fact that +2 STAB EQ/Outrage would plummet its HP before you can say ‘quad effective typing’
Oh great, what's next? I gotta make a joke about people complaining about people complaining that people are complaining?
Not that hitting Mamoswine for super effective damage would be much use, given its tendency to simply click Ice Shard rather than take damage, and the fact that +2 STAB EQ/Outrage would plummet its HP before you can say ‘quad effective typing’
Iron Head vs. Poison Jab really comes down to hitting Mamoswine or Azumarill for SE damage as far as I can tell. I guess they opted for the latter. There wasn't really a wrong choice they could make between the two.
Shit like Froslass, Weavile and Jynx are going to fold to an EQ anyway, at reasonable levels.
Stone Edge would've been a shit move for coverage, obviously due to accuracy. Which is one of the reasons why I think Chomp upgrading from Dragon Rush to Dragon Claw was a solid move set change.
Stone Edge has the same effective BP as Iron Head & PJab - I wouldn't consider it shit, but less necessary if you're carrying Dragon STAB (you wouldn't run just EQ + IH/PJab). Similarly, Dragon Claw is better than rush because it averages more BP per turn (80 vs 75)
Edit: The average BP per turn is also why Stone Edge is better than Rock Slide (80 vs 67.5)
Someone needs to use Mimic, sketch, or another move to get a non-Unown Pokemon to use Hidden Power so we can see if it works as it used to or they added a species-exclusive clause similar to Dark Void and Hyperspace Fury.
It might not effect BDSP if transfers are one-way, it might not even effect sword and shield if they don't patch it after Home gets compatibility with BDSP and Arceus, but I am curious.
The question you should be asking about Garchomp isn't what coverage move it should use, it's how long will it last until it gets banned again like in the good old days. :P
If we're speculating about Pokemon that have a history of being banned, Staraptor has gotten banned from UU every generation since its introduction in DP! As much as I'd hate to see that streak end, Reckless might be enough of a buff to get Staraptor into OU. 100 Speed with Brave Birds and Double Edges that outdamage even the strongest +0 Outrages makes it sound like a really good Choice user. Close Combat hits everything that resists STABS and Defog can be a really useful fourth move. Speaking of Defog, Gen 6's Hazard removing Defog buff alone would make this different than DP's meta and I wonder what losing Toxic will do for the viability of every defensive Pokemon that lost it. (AKA most of them) Even if we can transfer Pokemon to BDSP from Home, there's still a few months until it gets updated so we're stuck with just BDSP's movepools.
