Bronzong (Calm Mind+Rest)

[iDunno]

http://www.smogon.com/dp/pokemon/bronzong

Changes Made:
Moved other move options to additional comments
Added offensive EV spread as an alternative to Bulky spread
Added Heatrap Heatran in Teammates section
Added information of being a lure for SD/CB Infernape, and Gyarados
in Teammates section
Changed offensive EV spread from 208 HP/200Def/100 SpAtk Modest
to 208 HP/ 116 Def/ 184 SpAtk Bold
Moved Defensive Spread to Additional comments
Added Extrasensory as an option from Psychic
Added Leftovers as an option over Chesto Berry in Additional comments

[SET]
Ability: Levitate
Move 1: Calm Mind
Move 2: Psychic/Extrasensory
Move 3: Hidden Power (Ground)/Fighting/Electric/Grass Knot
Move 4: Rest

Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry
Nature: Bold
EVS: 252HP/180 DEF/76 SpAtk

As one looks at this set he or she might think that Jirachi outclasses it in every way, but if you think about it, what is the most common way to take out a calm mind Jirachi? That's correct: Earthquake. This difference distinguishes Bronzong from its Steel/Psychic sibling. Unlike Jirachi who can be taken care of by strong choice banded Earthquakes, this Bronzong does not go down so easily. Being fully resistant to the popular EdgeQuake combination, Bronzong finds it much easier to switch into many Physical Sweepers. Choice Banded Tyranitar and Heracross can still take a hefty chunk out of this tank regardless of its Defensive EV Spread, but that's where the beauty of the Calm Mind Resto Chesto kicks in. Bronzong is able to take a number of Strong Physical hits and Calm Mind with that weird rectangular smile on its face. Then when the time is right, Rest, wake up and then attempt to tank. Sure, it may have middling speed, but at times that is its advantage. Being as slow as it is, Bronzong is able to Rest AFTER the opponents previous attack and is able to endure its first turn of sleep with full HP. This lets Bronzong attempt to endure the later turns of its sweep without a Chesto berry to wake it up. Psychic and Ground provide very good type coverage. Psychic is there for STAB.

Why this set deserves to be onsite:
Incredible Tanking Ability
No other Specially Offensive Bronzong Sets mentioned currently on-site
Very high Durability combined with acceptable power
Able to endure some Non-Choiced Specs Heatrans if they have flamethrower with a couple of calm minds under its belt
Able to cure its own status with Rest
Able to stall Blissey without rest in the last Pokemon situation due to higher PP supply in CM and rest

Additional Comments:
--Leftovers instead of Chesto Berry can be used to make Bronzong more durable between CMs
--An additional ev spread of 252 HP/240 Def/12 SpAtk takes physical hits like a beast but has notably less power not even being able to kill Infernape with Psychic at +0 with stealth rock
--Hp Ground can be used instead of Grass Knot to deal with grounded steels (notably Heatran) easier, but then you are more likely to be phazed by Swampert, Suicune, etc. :P --Shadow ball and Hp Fighting is also an option for unresisted coverage, but it lacks STAB and is therefore more lacking in power, but SE HP fighting hits Blissey hard at +6.
--Flash Cannon could be used as a secondary STAB and hits Tyranitar hard as well as having the SpDef drop chance but it has redundant coverage and isn't recommended.
--A combination of Hp Electric and Flashcannon is viable for hitting both Tyranitar and Gyarados as well as other bulky waters for supereffective damage although you lose the chance of hitting CM Jirachi and Heatran for SE damage.
--Recycle could be used to abuse Chesto+Rest at the cost of losing coverage (bad idea).
--Sandstorm support is great for whittling down the opponent's HP while you procure your boosts

Teammates and Counters:
--Strong Pursuit Users can take care of Cresselia for Bronzong whom he hates which in turn lets it run cleaner sweep. Choice (Band) Tyranitar is a great choice with its synergy in that it provides sandstorm which inhibit's Cresselia's walling ability on Bronzong anyway.
--A certain fat pink whore named Blissey walls this set with ease but thats a given. Strong wallbreakers or Sub Painsplit Gengar can do wonders. Sub Painsplit loves sandstorm, at least in my experience, because it lets it procure even more health from Blissey with Pain Split. Gengar's x4 resistance to bug type moves and immunity to fighting also lets it switch into Heracross and annoying CB Scizor U-turns, which still do a hefty chunk to Defensive Bronzong.
--Physical Infernape can hurt Bronzong a lot with its Flare Blitz, but if you are packing Psychic it is easier to deal with along with Heracross. That is the main benifit of running a STAB set with pursuit support.
--Durable Special Walls can help lure especially strong physical attackers like Infernape and Heracross so you can become aware of them and make sure to KO them to help in Bronzong's Sweep
--A Heatrap Heatran can help lure in phazing bulky waters and Blissey and KO them to eliminate the need for Grass Knot as a coverage move and replace it with a different move as a coverage (preferably HP ground)
--Aromatherapy support can be useful if you want to do a sleep and switch strategy to help preserve it
--Teammates that would benifit in using Infernape to set up, the removal of Heatran, the removal of Gyarados (if packing HP electric) and the removal of Breloom make good partners

 

[Curtains]

with lackluster special attack after 2/3 cm's and bad speed and recovery to use it cm cresselia outclasses this set 100% .

 

[RaikouLover]

I would probably use Grass Knot over HP Electric to hit Tyranitar. Max that HP, and Max Def. The good thing about steels is that they dont hit you very hard. Maybe HP Fire as an option for Scizor. HP Fighting can hit him neutral and Tar hard, but the problem is how much Scizor is doing with U-Turn

 

[jc104]

with lackluster special attack after 2/3 cm's and bad speed and recovery to use it cm cresselia outclasses this set 100% .

Not even close. Cresselia has crippling and predominantly physical weaknesses in Dark and Bug which allow it to be easily taken out by Tyranitar and Scizor. Bronzong, with a CM or two, is not even taking all that much from the average Fire move. The toxic immunity is also a huge help after your first rest, so that you don't have to rest up again and be a sitting duck for 2 turns.

 

[Chillarmy]

So my guess is that everyone is going to create a Chesto + Rest set now? Hey guys, make ChestoRest Suicune before someone takes the idea! -_-

Anyway, like RL said, Grass Knot > HP Electric. Gyarados isn't hurting you at all and it's always great to cripple Pert at +1 before he can Roar you out. I mean, yeah Jirachi fucks you over, but it's not like it couldn't stall you out with Wish + CM anyway.

 

[iDunno]

Anyway, like RL said, Grass Knot > HP Electric. Gyarados isn't hurting you at all and it's always great to cripple Pert at +1 before he can Roar you out. I mean, yeah Jirachi fucks you over, but it's not like it couldn't stall you out with Wish + CM anyway.

The the thing about grass knot is yeah, It hits swampert and tyranitar hard, but then Skarmory is completely free to whirlwind you out. That was one of the reasons i chose HP electric in the first place.

 

[Chillarmy]

The the thing about grass knot is yeah, It hits swampert and tyranitar hard, but then Skarmory is completely free to whirlwind you out. That was one of the reasons i chose HP electric in the first place.

SDef Skarmory doesn't really mind a boosted HP Electric.

Just curious, what other advantages does HP Electric have over Grass Knot? Vaporeon can Roar Bronzong out regardless of what it's running and Gyarados can't do enough damage without LO (and even then it's pretty easy to wear down).

 

[M BLADE]

I think there's many options for Bronzong to use. All the attack combinations Bronzong can use are:

Psychic + HP Electric (like mentioned)
Psychic + Grass Knot (read above)
Flash Cannon + HP Electric (good coverage with the option of hitting Tyranitar hard)
Flash Cannon + Psychic (dual STAB with redundant coverage)

I'm not saying you should mention every option, but instead i'm giving everyone here the best options to discuss about.


if you're crazy enough you could add Recycle over a attack so you can often abuse of Chesto Rest, but the lost of coverage might be too much...


About the set itself: It's a good thing there's few pokes using Flare Blitz in OU, so this set seems to be good.

 

[iDunno]

SDef Skarmory doesn't really mind a boosted HP Electric.

Just curious, what other advantages does HP Electric have over Grass Knot? Vaporeon can Roar Bronzong out regardless of what it's running and Gyarados can't do enough damage without LO (and even then it's pretty easy to wear down).

Thinking about it, I actually think that against specially defensive skarmory, HP electric does fail, but it also hits the ever present Psychic/Steel types neutrally and heatran harder which is why it's chosen. Hp Electric COULD be replaced by Hp Ground to hit those types Super Effectively and get Heatran early, as well as get Skarmory on the roost, but then it loses coverage against levitating Psychics. But again, strong pursuit users take care of those.

I think there's many options for Bronzong to use. All the attack combinations Bronzong can use are:

Psychic + HP Electric (like mentioned)
Psychic + Grass Knot (read above)
Flash Cannon + HP Electric (good coverage with the option of hitting Tyranitar hard)
Flash Cannon + Psychic (dual STAB with redundant coverage)

I'm not saying you should mention every option, but instead i'm giving everyone here the best options to discuss about.


if you're crazy enough you could add Recycle over a attack so you can often abuse of Chesto Rest, but the lost of coverage might be too much...


About the set itself: It's a good thing there's few pokes using Flare Blitz in OU, so this set seems to be good.

Flash cannon and Hp Electric do have great coverage, but it leaves you helpless against Swampert who can roar you out, but on Swamperts who lack roar it can kill with Flashcannon eventually i guess. Plus Ive thought about Recycle and it seems like a fun option if you don't care about the loss of coverage. But then again, when boosted, Bronzong doesn't mind two turns of sleep anyway.

 

[tobi10]

Cresselia, Mesprit and Uxie does not counter this set because they are all set-up on, unless they have Calm Mind as well. To be honest I think that Jirachi outclasses this set, while Bronzong has immunity to Ground, Jirachi can support the team with Wish, and it is definitely harder to phaze (Suicune / Skarmory.) Also, with Wish you can switch-in SR weak Pokemon that resist Fire, like Gyarados or Dragonite, making Jirachi a more of a team-player. Not to mention that Bronzong is pretty weak when unboosted, meaning that it is set up bait for many Pokemon like SD Scizor and DD Dragonite.

 

[Chillarmy]

Slashing Flash Cannon with Psychic as the primary STAB and replacing HP Electric with Grass Knot would be your best option imo. Gyarados gets worn down easily with LO recoil and SR damage, and Vaporeon isn't hard to check, so HP Electric doesn't have much use outside of hitting Metagross for, erm, actual damage. Also if a move only has one conventional use (i.e HP Ground and Recycle), then mention it in AC rather than slashing it with the main set.

To be honest I think that Jirachi outclasses this set, while Bronzong has immunity to Ground, Jirachi can support the team with Wish, and it is definitely harder to phaze (Suicune / Skarmory.) Also, with Wish you can switch-in SR weak Pokemon that resist Fire, like Gyarados or Dragonite, making Jirachi a more of a team-player. Not to mention that Bronzong is pretty weak when unboosted, meaning that it is set up bait for many Pokemon like SD Scizor and DD Dragonite.

The immunity to Earthquake is Bronzong's main selling point over Jirachi since Flygon, Gliscor, Metagross, Mamoswine, etc, can't force it out or use it as set up fodder (well, Metagross can pull through if it gets a couple of Attack boosts from Meteor Mash otherwise it can be worn down). There's also the immunity to Spikes, better defenses, and Earth Power, giving Bronzong quite a few chances to switch in and set up a few Calm Minds before Resting.

 

[iDunno]

Cresselia, Mesprit and Uxie does not counter this set because they are all set-up on, unless they have Calm Mind as well. To be honest I think that Jirachi outclasses this set, while Bronzong has immunity to Ground, Jirachi can support the team with Wish, and it is definitely harder to phaze (Suicune / Skarmory.) Also, with Wish you can switch-in SR weak Pokemon that resist Fire, like Gyarados or Dragonite, making Jirachi a more of a team-player. Not to mention that Bronzong is pretty weak when unboosted, meaning that it is set up bait for many Pokemon like SD Scizor and DD Dragonite.

In some respects, yes Jirachi can outclass this set on certain teams with wish and stuff, but Bronzong serves a different purpose of walling certain physical threats and setting up on them with an immunity to earthquake which would plague Jirachi otherwise due to it being such a prominent move in the Metagame. Bronzong finds it much easier to set up on physical threats such as SD Gliscor and Boosted Dragonite than Jirachi does. It can also switch into Flygon on either of its STABs with impunity which Jirachi cannot boast. Although Jirachi does hit harder and serves as a cleric, Bronzong serves as an offensive wall who can deal with offensive threats as well as pack a punch. Honestly I think this Bronzong serves the team better than its primary set due to the fact that it doesn't serve to be complete dead weight to its team after setting up stealth rock and can actually dent the other team.

They both have their own merits.

 

[M BLADE]

Slashing Flash Cannon with Psychic as the primary STAB and replacing HP Electric with Grass Knot would be your best option imo. Gyarados gets worn down easily with LO recoil and SR damage, and Vaporeon isn't hard to check, so HP Electric doesn't have much use outside of hitting Metagross for, erm, actual damage. Also if a move only has one conventional use (i.e HP Ground and Recycle), then mention it in AC rather than slashing it with the main set.

Just pointing out:

A 2X resisted STAB Flash Cannon "has" 60 BP.
Hidden Power Electric has 70 BP.

It's not that much of a loss.

That said, Flash Cannon + Psychic could work. You're going to get Roared out by Swampert, but a +1 STAB Psychic does some damage to it (so you can worn it down eventually) while not letting you with the unreliable and Grass Knot (which also has crap coverage with Flash Cannon or Psychic IMO) and having 2 moderately powerful STAB attacks (HP Eletric is soo weak) and both attacks can drop Sp.Def meaning Blissey will have a hard time.

Psychic does enough damage to worn Gyarados down and Vaporeon dilsikes Psychic too.

And to finish: with Psychic and Flash Cannon Bronzong has the most power out of all those attacks...

 

[Chillarmy]

Grass Knot covers more than just Swampert. Without it, Suicune can set up alongside Bronzong and Starmie gets a free chance to switch in, spin away any entry hazards that are set up, Recover off the damage, and switch to something that can beat Bronzong.

 

[M BLADE]

I said COULD work.

And you're doing all this and let Bronzong get 4 CMs (assuming Starmie switches in (1 CM), spin (2 CM), and Recover (3 CM) to switch out after (4 CM))?


Anyway: having 2 STABs is a good option, so "we" could give it a slash or at least mention in on AC.

 

[iDunno]

I said COULD work.

And you're doing all this and let Bronzong get 4 CMs (assuming Starmie switches in (1 CM), spin (2 CM), and Recover (3 CM) to switch out after (4 CM))?

Bronzong doesn't need 4 CMs right away. It can retrieve them over a period of time. Blindly spamming Calm mind is only a good idea against SE hitters.

BTW i changed the EVS on the spread to take physical hits better. I also took some EVS out of SPDEF and put them into SpAtk

 

[M BLADE]

Bronzong doesn't need 4 CMs right away. It can retrieve them over a period of time. Blindly spamming Calm mind is never a good idea.

I was stating out the circunstances the other guy said (Starmie getting a free switch in blablabla), not that i should CM the hell out whenever i want to.

read.

 

[iDunno]

I was stating out the circunstances the other guy said (Starmie getting a free switch in blablabla), not that i should CM the hell out whenever i want to.

read.

Srry lol

 

[Chillarmy]

I said COULD work.

Sue me if I misread one word.

And you're doing all this and let Bronzong get 4 CMs (assuming Starmie switches in (1 CM), spin (2 CM), and Recover (3 CM) to switch out after (4 CM))?

Skarmory, Swampert, and Hippowdon can take a +4 Psychic btw (the latter won't take it well, but my point was that Starmie can accomplish its task of spinning away your shit without much trouble). That being said, Bronzong's checks don't change much with Psychic + Flash Cannon. ResTalk Heatran can still Phaze you, Jirachi doesn't mind setting up Calm Minds, Scizor can still set up Swords Dances - you get my point, Flash Cannon + Psychic doesn't offer any significant advantages over STAB + coverage attack other than not being walled by a combination of Weavile + Celebi lol.

Back OT, have you tested HeaTrap as a partner for this set? In theory, it sounds like it can work well alongside Bronzong by removing Blissey, Vaporeon, and Swampert from play while boasting decent type synergy. As a plus, Heatran can draw in stuff like Flygon and Tyranitar, giving Bronzong some free set up.

 

[iDunno]

Back OT, have you tested HeaTrap as a partner for this set? In theory, it sounds like it can work well alongside Bronzong by removing Blissey, Vaporeon, and Swampert from play while boasting decent type synergy. As a plus, Heatran can draw in stuff like Flygon and Tyranitar, giving Bronzong some free set up.

I actually have not but I will try it and tell you the results. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[Delta 2777]

Forenote: I haven't read the rest of the comments in this thread, forgive me if I say something already addressed.

I feel that this set deserves its own analysis. Nothing really outclasses it; Jirachi has that crippling Ground weakness, allowing strong Earthquake users to force it out (Swampert, Tyranitar, even Rhyperior despite how uncommon it is). I also must say (and I can't believe that nobody has mentioned this yet) that Bronzong is a GREAT Breloom lure, as Chesto Berry will make its spore useless (assuming Bronzong hasn't rested yet), and can OHKO back with +1 Psychic.

Of course, Jirachi has a lot going for it over Bronzong, such as Thunderbolt, better defenses, higher speed, and Wish (only an arguable advantage). This Bronzong therefore requires a LOT of support to be effective, since there are many Pokemon that can either 1) Wall this sets two offensive moves (Psychic and GK), 2) Switch in with relative impunity and either set up themselves or threaten to KO, 3) Can render it useless by either tricking a Choice item onto it, Leech Seeding it, etc.

I'm not going to go all out and say "this set is a great set" because it isn't; it requires a lot of support to work effectively. However, that shouldn't mean it should be flat out rejected.

 

[iDunno]

I tried pairing Bronzong up with a Heatrap set and i must say it works very well. It takes care Hazers like Swampert, Suicune, and Co. It also takes care of Blissey which is a DEFINITE plus. I'm going to add it to the additional comments section.

 

[Seven Deadly Sins]

I'm not going to go all out and say "this set is a great set" because it isn't; it requires a lot of support to work effectively. However, that shouldn't mean it should be flat out rejected.

I beg to differ. I believe that if anything that *is* a reason to reject it. It's at the very least mostly outclassed by attackers like Superachi or even SubCM, as well as stuff like FastCune and friends. On top of that, if it needs "a lot of support" to work, and even then it's not even that spectacular, plus it's basically useless against the most common threat in the metagame, Heatran, I don't see why this should get a slot on the analysis.

 

[iDunno]

I beg to differ. I believe that if anything that *is* a reason to reject it. It's at the very least mostly outclassed by attackers like Superachi or even SubCM, as well as stuff like FastCune and friends. On top of that, if it needs "a lot of support" to work, and even then it's not even that spectacular, plus it's basically useless against the most common threat in the metagame, Heatran, I don't see why this should get a slot on the analysis.

With HP ground it can KO heatran. The reason why it should get a spot IMHO is because of the following:

It allows people to use Bronzong in a different way that lets it not be a complete sitting duck if another pokemon on your team has SR. Bronzong is a great pokemon with a lot of offensive potential. It can set up on so many things and once it gets enough CMs up it can be incredibly difficult to take down. It is a welcome addition on Sandstorm teams that want a steel that doesn't provide another ground weakness and can last for a long time.

Even without CMs, Bronzong can still wane on the HP of the pokemon it is countering like Gyarados and Breloom (with chesto) with Psychic for instance. Even if Dragonite has Fire Blast, Bronzong doesn't mind after some CMs. The set's main purpose of this set was not to really sweep but more to provide more of an specially offensive threat than the other sets.

 

[Conflict]

Calm Mind Bronzong is outclassed by Jirachi in almost every way. The only advantage Bronzong has over Jirachi is the move "Block". A Set with Calm Mind, Block, Rest, Flash Cannon can work decently.... And yes i used it in the past. ;)

It aint strong though - just a nice gimmick.