BSS Teambuilding & Help Thread (SuMo Edition Reloaded 2.0)

[marilli]

Also, can someone help explain suropoke’s non-TR Gyaranadel team? Dragon-Z Naga, Mega Gyara, Hippo, Sash SD Breloom, Yawn Snorlax and SD Ghost-Z Aegislash. http://suropoke.hatenadiary.com/entry/2019/01/08/174238 I think since then he’s changed it a bit, switching Ice Punch on Lax out for Fire Punch and changing something on Aegi as well. I think it was the Z-Crystal, not sure. From what I can see, the core is Naga and Gyara’s offensive presence and the fact that they complement each other (pre-mega ground switch-ins for Naga, post-mega Mold Breaker prevents Mimikyu shenanigans, Naga takes care of non-scarfed fairies, Gyara breaks special walls, Naga resists Electric/Grass/Fighting/Bug), Aegislash is a Fairy switch in and a wallbreaker, SD Breloom for bulky water, Snorlax and Hippo are special and physical walls respectively – but I don’t understand how it comes together. Nothing to set terrain means the team hates to see Tapu Fini, right? Is Breloom there just for her and other bulky water types? I see EQ/Yawn/Whirlwind on Hippo but couldn’t make out the last move. Yawn on both Snorlax and Hippo makes me think you bring either depending on what your opp is more likely to bring, then you make use of yawn and whirlwind to disrupt the momentum and get an opportunity for Loom/Aegi/Gyara/Naga to set up and win?​

Fini is fairly well covered with the team. Naganadel beats Fini first of all, but more importantly poses such a strong sweeping threat against common Fini teams such as Fini / Rotom-H / Metagross that a lot of Finis are tempted to just stay in and Moonblast after taking a hit (unboosted Sludge Wave does not KO Fini from full) that way their Metagross can revenge with Bullet Punch, for example. Of course Mimikyu / Scarf Lando checks Naganadel but it is a shaky check because a single turn of prediction will turn the game around for Naganadel vs Scarf Lando, and switching Mimikyu into Sludge Wave is not an ideal scenario. Snorlax is a Yawn user and the move is stopped by Misty Terrain but 252 Adamant Double-Edge does a ton to Tapu Fini and does not take a whole lot back. Even if these tools do not straight up take out Tapu Fini, Gyarados can put off Mega Evolution for a turn, DD, and EQ will finish off a weakened Tapu Fini. As Fini is commonly tasked with beating Gyarados, the rest of the opposing team could be in trouble.

Hippowdon's last move is Stealth Rock. SR + Yawn forces a sleep without the presence of Tapu Fini / Tapu Koko / Gliscor / presence other status absorbers, which then can be exploited by the team's 4 setup attakers.

And yes, you are meant to lead Lax or Hippo most of the games. But Metagame has certainly shifted from the time these two posts have been put out. Depending on exactly where are on the ladder, Snorlax is starting to get seriously prepped for. It genuinely feels like it has top ~10 usage at this point. So Tapu Fini + some really stupid anti-Snorlax measures could probably land you in hot water from Turn 1 because it feels super obvious what your lead is going to be. Also depending on where you are on the ladder, it's probably better not to try to beat Tapu Fini with Breloom because Fini nowadays tend to run a lot of speed with an offensive set, so they are faster than Breloom. The team should still be pretty good though, and I would definitely try out the changes he outlined in his April post.

 

[Jam Joestar]

Fini is fairly well covered with the team. Naganadel beats Fini first of all, but more importantly poses such a strong sweeping threat against common Fini teams such as Fini / Rotom-H / Metagross that a lot of Finis are tempted to just stay in and Moonblast after taking a hit (unboosted Sludge Wave does not KO Fini from full) that way their Metagross can revenge with Bullet Punch, for example. Of course Mimikyu / Scarf Lando checks Naganadel but it is a shaky check because a single turn of prediction will turn the game around for Naganadel vs Scarf Lando, and switching Mimikyu into Sludge Wave is not an ideal scenario. Snorlax is a Yawn user and the move is stopped by Misty Terrain but 252 Adamant Double-Edge does a ton to Tapu Fini and does not take a whole lot back. Even if these tools do not straight up take out Tapu Fini, Gyarados can put off Mega Evolution for a turn, DD, and EQ will finish off a weakened Tapu Fini. As Fini is commonly tasked with beating Gyarados, the rest of the opposing team could be in trouble.

Hippowdon's last move is Stealth Rock. SR + Yawn forces a sleep without the presence of Tapu Fini / Tapu Koko / Gliscor / presence other status absorbers, which then can be exploited by the team's 4 setup attakers.

And yes, you are meant to lead Lax or Hippo most of the games. But Metagame has certainly shifted from the time these two posts have been put out. Depending on exactly where are on the ladder, Snorlax is starting to get seriously prepped for. It genuinely feels like it has top ~10 usage at this point. So Tapu Fini + some really stupid anti-Snorlax measures could probably land you in hot water from Turn 1 because it feels super obvious what your lead is going to be. Also depending on where you are on the ladder, it's probably better not to try to beat Tapu Fini with Breloom because Fini nowadays tend to run a lot of speed with an offensive set, so they are faster than Breloom. The team should still be pretty good though, and I would definitely try out the changes he outlined in his April post.

That was a very thorough answer, thank you!

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

And yes, you are meant to lead Lax or Hippo most of the games. But Metagame has certainly shifted from the time these two posts have been put out. Depending on exactly where are on the ladder, Snorlax is starting to get seriously prepped for. It genuinely feels like it has top ~10 usage at this point. So Tapu Fini + some really stupid anti-Snorlax measures could probably land you in hot water from Turn 1 because it feels super obvious what your lead is going to be. Also depending on where you are on the ladder, it's probably better not to try to beat Tapu Fini with Breloom because Fini nowadays tend to run a lot of speed with an offensive set, so they are faster than Breloom. The team should still be pretty good though, and I would definitely try out the changes he outlined in his April post.

I agree with much that is said here, one thing I would mention is that on a team with gyara naga as its most threatening win condition, it is almost always worth trading fini for breloom. Although Naga is typically seen as a killer of Fini, it hates misty terrain halving Z-Draco so Fini even kind of screws over Naga. The major issue the team had at least in my testing was fini lead and then pivoting into a steel type which shuts down a lot of the team. The changes with fire punch lax and ghostium-z aegi do help mitigate that a lot as it gives you a better counterplay in a variety of matchups.

 

[Jam Joestar]

If I read it right he changed his Aegi to be specially-offensive rather than physically-offensive, his old set ran Adamant 68 Spe. Would I be best served running Quiet 0 Spe (for opposing Aegi and Celesteela) or Modest 68 Spe? I feel like I don't need to run the regular 0 Spe set when Lax switches into Celesteela just fine, and half of the team runs EQ for other steels. But I’m not well-versed in speed tiers enough to know what threat 68 Spe would allow Aegislash to outspeed.​

 

[marilli]

If I read it right he changed his Aegi to be specially-offensive rather than physically-offensive, his old set ran Adamant 68 Spe. Would I be best served running Quiet 0 Spe (for opposing Aegi and Celesteela) or Modest 68 Spe? I feel like I don't need to run the regular 0 Spe set when Lax switches into Celesteela just fine, and half of the team runs EQ for other steels. But I’m not well-versed in speed tiers enough to know what threat 68 Spe would allow Aegislash to outspeed.​

>Would I be best served running Quiet 0 Spe (for opposing Aegi and Celesteela) or Modest 68 Spe?

68 isn't really anything specific - aside from outspeeding 60 Speed Aegislash. 68 is the leftover EVs after 252 in attacking stat + 188 HP is the defensive benchmark for Jolly Landorus-T Earthquake, and he has dumped all his remaining EVs into Speed. He made this decision well first of all he's a SD Aegislash without King's Shield, so there's no point worrying too much about exposing itself in Shield form - it's forced to, so might as well outspeed the Porygon2 and Celesteela instead of getting outsped and dying to Foul Play or Flamethrower. But this spread is still applicable to Specially based Z-move Aegislash.

Min speed isn't exactly the best for opposing Aegislash mirrors anymore. Ghostium-Z basically put a stop to the days where being the second to move guaranteed that you come out on top in Aegislash wars. Whoever slams the Never Ending Nightmare first will win the 1v1 because even if they get the turn right and King's Shield your Z move, the follow up Shadow Ball will KO unless they are 252 HP / 252 SpDef with Leftovers (and even then it's a damage roll). Even 252+ Adamant Shadow Sneak does not KO an Aegislash in Blade form unboosted from items such as Life Orb or Weakness Policy, and even then after a King's Shield it definitely doesn't. It is not uncommon to even see the offensive investment dropped in order to creep a bit more due to how big the advantage of winning this 1v1 is, because not only do you get to see the next Pokemon you get to fire off a fat Shadow Sneak on it or even drop their Attack by 2 stages.

That being said, Weakness Policy Aegislash generally runs minimum speed. That Z-move logic don't apply to you cuz you're not running it, you want to stay in Shield form as much as possible, and you have mixed offenses. Specially based Z-Aegislash with Shadow Sneak can also run a speed decreasing nature for KO ranges. The increased Shadow Sneak damage, for example, will allow a Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak to KO Naganadel, instead of it being a damage roll (where you lose the damage roll, you immediately lose the game)

Being Faster than opposing Celesteela is certainly more hit-or-miss, as the Flamethrower will hit you hard in Blade form. But you don't exactly have a good time vs Celesteela even being slower than it either, because you have to King's Shield in order to avoid the Flamethrower KO, but then he can Leech Seed on that turn instead and Protect, and now you're in Blade form again and you're not in a good position to win the 1v1. Obviously winning the 1v1 is not what Pokemon is about though, and both Aegislash spreads will do just fine chipping Celesteela in KO range of your follow-up Pokemon.

> Lax switches into Celesteela just fine

I mean you can switch in without a KO but this isn't exactly 'just fine.' Celesteela will just Leech Seed and switch out. It's not gonna result in an immediate KO like staying Blade form vs Flamethrower does, but this is definitely not a long-term sustainable gameplan. Celesteela is difficult for most of your Pokemon to deal with, and certainly one of your worst matchups. The blog itself suggests that you bring both Breloom and Gyarados, which lose to it 1v1 individually, but you can force damage onto Celesteela with Breloom then open a way for Gyarados later.

 

[Jam Joestar]

>Would I be best served running Quiet 0 Spe (for opposing Aegi and Celesteela) or Modest 68 Spe?

68 isn't really anything specific - aside from outspeeding 60 Speed Aegislash. 68 is the leftover EVs after 252 in attacking stat + 188 HP is the defensive benchmark for Jolly Landorus-T Earthquake, and he has dumped all his remaining EVs into Speed. He made this decision well first of all he's a SD Aegislash without King's Shield, so there's no point worrying too much about exposing itself in Shield form - it's forced to, so might as well outspeed the Porygon2 and Celesteela instead of getting outsped and dying to Foul Play or Flamethrower. But this spread is still applicable to Specially based Z-move Aegislash.

Min speed isn't exactly the best for opposing Aegislash mirrors anymore. Ghostium-Z basically put a stop to the days where being the second to move guaranteed that you come out on top in Aegislash wars. Whoever slams the Never Ending Nightmare first will win the 1v1 because even if they get the turn right and King's Shield your Z move, the follow up Shadow Ball will KO unless they are 252 HP / 252 SpDef with Leftovers (and even then it's a damage roll). Even 252+ Adamant Shadow Sneak does not KO an Aegislash in Blade form unboosted from items such as Life Orb or Weakness Policy, and even then after a King's Shield it definitely doesn't. It is not uncommon to even see the offensive investment dropped in order to creep a bit more due to how big the advantage of winning this 1v1 is, because not only do you get to see the next Pokemon you get to fire off a fat Shadow Sneak on it or even drop their Attack by 2 stages.

That being said, Weakness Policy Aegislash generally runs minimum speed. That Z-move logic don't apply to you cuz you're not running it, you want to stay in Shield form as much as possible, and you have mixed offenses. Specially based Z-Aegislash with Shadow Sneak can also run a speed decreasing nature for KO ranges. The increased Shadow Sneak damage, for example, will allow a Shadow Ball + Shadow Sneak to KO Naganadel, instead of it being a damage roll (where you lose the damage roll, you immediately lose the game)

Being Faster than opposing Celesteela is certainly more hit-or-miss, as the Flamethrower will hit you hard in Blade form. But you don't exactly have a good time vs Celesteela even being slower than it either, because you have to King's Shield in order to avoid the Flamethrower KO, but then he can Leech Seed on that turn instead and Protect, and now you're in Blade form again and you're not in a good position to win the 1v1. Obviously winning the 1v1 is not what Pokemon is about though, and both Aegislash spreads will do just fine chipping Celesteela in KO range of your follow-up Pokemon.

> Lax switches into Celesteela just fine

I mean you can switch in without a KO but this isn't exactly 'just fine.' Celesteela will just Leech Seed and switch out. It's not gonna result in an immediate KO like staying Blade form vs Flamethrower does, but this is definitely not a long-term sustainable gameplan. Celesteela is difficult for most of your Pokemon to deal with, and certainly one of your worst matchups. The blog itself suggests that you bring both Breloom and Gyarados, which lose to it 1v1 individually, but you can force damage onto Celesteela with Breloom then open a way for Gyarados later.

Huh. Quiet 68 Spe then outspeeds Quiet 60 Spe Aegislash and doesn't hurt Sneak. I've got an Adamant and a Quiet Aegi lying around, which was lucky. Funny how the low roll on Shadow Ball into Sneak is literally 99.9 against Naganadel. So for Celesteela, get chip with Mach Punch, DD once and Waterfall twice?

 

[marilli]

It would be Modest 68 Speed EVs Aegislash. Either that, or if you only have Quiet just go Quiet and don't use that many Speed EVs. You would be wasting a lot of EVs investing so much in a stat with decreased nature. Most Aegislash will be just be neutral Speed nature and you're outsped all the same. But again, something like 12 EVs for creeping wouldn't hurt too much because decreasing nature 0 EV Aegislash does exist.

 

[Psycho FOX]

Hi guys, could anyone tell me the set (with spread if it's not too much trouble please) more common for Umbreon? I'm curious after seeing it on a 1800s ladder team in 3DS.

 

[marilli]

Hi guys, could anyone tell me the set (with spread if it's not too much trouble please) more common for Umbreon? I'm curious after seeing it on a 1800s ladder team in 3DS.

There's 2 main Umbreon strategies. First is Defensive Yawn (+ Stealth Rock lead), and the other is Z-Celebrate + Taunt.

Set 1

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
- Foul Play
- Yawn
- Wish
- Protect

Speed outspeeds most Aegislash and uninvested base 70s. The first slashes and the second slashes are all supposed to go together. Leftovers goes well with Wish + Protect. Inner Focus is better for the Yawn set because you'd like to put things to Sleep if possible.

Moonlight could spare a moveslot for Taunt, but that misses out on a lot of recovery which matters with Umbreon's borderline bulk. In fact many drop the creep for maximum bulk. There's one guy using Zard-Y + Umbreon for the Sun + Moonlight synergy, and without Protect to synergize with Leftovers or Yawn, they just went for Foul Play / Toxic / Moonlight / Taunt with Rocky Helmet instead.

Set 2

Umbreon @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Taunt
- Baton Pass
- Foul Play

Straightforward BP set. Taunt shuts down moves like Haze or Roar. Speed is faster than Mega Lucario and Serperior after +1, and just being faster helps it effectively use Taunt or boost its defenses before taking a hit.

Keep in mind the Ball information when playing vs Umbreon. In preview you could be unsure, but if it's in a Cherish Ball it cannot be Yawn, and if it's in anything else it cannot be Celebrate. As a result, you should know the Umbreon set before it does anything. This applies to other Eeveelutions.

 

[Psycho FOX]

There's 2 main Umbreon strategies. First is Defensive Yawn (+ Stealth Rock lead), and the other is Z-Celebrate + Taunt.

Set 1

Umbreon @ Leftovers
Ability: Inner Focus
Level: 50
Bold Nature
EVs: 248 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
- Foul Play
- Yawn
- Wish
- Protect

Speed outspeeds most Aegislash and uninvested base 70s. The first slashes and the second slashes are all supposed to go together. Leftovers goes well with Wish + Protect. Inner Focus is better for the Yawn set because you'd like to put things to Sleep if possible.

Moonlight could spare a moveslot for Taunt, but that misses out on a lot of recovery which matters with Umbreon's borderline bulk. In fact many drop the creep for maximum bulk. There's one guy using Zard-Y + Umbreon for the Sun + Moonlight synergy, and without Protect to synergize with Leftovers or Yawn, they just went for Foul Play / Toxic / Moonlight / Taunt with Rocky Helmet instead.

Set 2

Umbreon @ Normalium Z
Ability: Synchronize
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 44 Def / 4 SpD / 204 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Celebrate
- Taunt
- Baton Pass
- Foul Play

Straightforward BP set. Taunt shuts down moves like Haze or Roar. Speed is faster than Mega Lucario and Serperior after +1, and just being faster helps it effectively use Taunt or boost its defenses before taking a hit.

Keep in mind the Ball information when playing vs Umbreon. In preview you could be unsure, but if it's in a Cherish Ball it cannot be Yawn, and if it's in anything else it cannot be Celebrate. As a result, you should know the Umbreon set before it does anything. This applies to other Eeveelutions.

Thanks man, I knew some things about how Umbreon was played (thanks to the game I played against that 1800 ladder team, some BSS games that I saw on youtube and playing several games in 6 gen with him on my team) but it gave me a lot Curious to know more accurately what their sets were in BSS, knowing that in this format things are not the same as in the 6vs6 format.

-I mention it because I find it curious, but the set of that team was Rocky Helmet + Curse, I could not see more because "mysteriously" the connection fell when I took Tapu Lele, being Umbreon his last mon. mysteries of life I guess, haha

 

[buddytrooper18]

I'm pretty new to competitive having some problems completing my Zard - Y sweeping team. Zard Y is the core, Garchomp to counter sand teams and cover some of Zard - Y's weaknesses, Protean Greninja for more coverage, and Excadrill to get rid of stealth rock as well as destroy special walls and bypass sturdy and levitate. PLEASE HELP.
So far I have this
Titan (Charizard-Mega-Y) (M) @ Charizardite
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse

Chompy (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Ninja (Greninja) (M) @ Icium Z
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory

Drill (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

 

[marilli]

I'm pretty new to competitive having some problems completing my Zard - Y sweeping team. Zard Y is the core, Garchomp to counter sand teams and cover some of Zard - Y's weaknesses, Protean Greninja for more coverage, and Excadrill to get rid of stealth rock as well as destroy special walls and bypass sturdy and levitate. PLEASE HELP.
So far I have this
Titan (Charizard-Mega-Y) (M) @ Charizardite
Ability: Drought
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fire Blast
- Solar Beam
- Air Slash
- Dragon Pulse

Chompy (Garchomp) @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance

Ninja (Greninja) (M) @ Icium Z
Ability: Protean
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Surf
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Extrasensory

Drill (Excadrill) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Mold Breaker
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Rock Slide
- Rapid Spin

Feel free to either join us in the Pokemon Showdown Room or the BSS Discord server, whichever is more comfortable for you.

Dragon Pulse doesn't really hit anything Charizard misses out on. Similar can be said for Air Slash. Hidden Power Ice would hit the dragon-types much harder, though Air Slash can be justified on teams that are extra bad vs Kommo-o, it's almost never worth the moveslot unless you are relying on that 30% flinch chance, as Charizard-Y can't really come in Kommo-O on the Z-move anyways.

Now skipping to Greninja, it doesn't really need Icium Z to boost its Ice Beam. Life Orb Ice Beam does plenty, you could also use Focus Sash on Greninja instead. Life Orb I recommend if you want Extrasensory because that is actually what lets you 2HKO Venusaur and Toxapex, but Focus Sash gives you some defensive utility. Both of those choices will open up the move for either Excadrill or Garchomp, who needs it more. If you insist on a Z-move on Greninja, I would suggest likes of Waterium-Z, Grassium-Z, Fightinium-Z, and such, which are generally more useful than Icium-Z.

Iron Head on Garchomp barely hurts the Fairy-types harder than Earthquake, which only its Lele for 10 base power more (and is either going to be KOed regardless, or going to be outspeeding you to the Moonblast. It only misses out on the non-existent Tapu Bulu, which could be better checked with Fire Fang which happens to also hit the far more common Celesteela. A sample Z-move set on Garchomp would be a SD - EQ - Outrage - Fire Fang set with Dragonium-Z or another move instead of Outrage like Rock Slide, in which case you'll use Groundium-Z.

As for Excadrill I'm not really sure what this achieves other than beating Mimikyu, and as for Rapid Spin it isn't very common on BSS for a good reason: the games are usually too short for Rapid Spin to be worth it, except in cases that involve something like Charizard. Generally, Zard-Y teams work around this by using a secondary Mega Evolution (like Metagross, Lucario, Kangaskhan, etc.) that isn't worried about Stealth Rock.

As for the last 2 (or 3 if you take out Excadrill) I suggest looking through this post I made on common cores, it covers a lot but give you a lot of options. Pokemon like Mimikyu, Tapu Lele, Snorlax, and secondary Mega Evolutions I mentioned above sound like a good place to start.

Hope this helps!

 

[buddytrooper18]

Feel free to either join us in the Pokemon Showdown Room or the BSS Discord server, whichever is more comfortable for you.

Dragon Pulse doesn't really hit anything Charizard misses out on. Similar can be said for Air Slash. Hidden Power Ice would hit the dragon-types much harder, though Air Slash can be justified on teams that are extra bad vs Kommo-o, it's almost never worth the moveslot unless you are relying on that 30% flinch chance, as Charizard-Y can't really come in Kommo-O on the Z-move anyways.

Now skipping to Greninja, it doesn't really need Icium Z to boost its Ice Beam. Life Orb Ice Beam does plenty, you could also use Focus Sash on Greninja instead. Life Orb I recommend if you want Extrasensory because that is actually what lets you 2HKO Venusaur and Toxapex, but Focus Sash gives you some defensive utility. Both of those choices will open up the move for either Excadrill or Garchomp, who needs it more. If you insist on a Z-move on Greninja, I would suggest likes of Waterium-Z, Grassium-Z, Fightinium-Z, and such, which are generally more useful than Icium-Z.

Iron Head on Garchomp barely hurts the Fairy-types harder than Earthquake, which only its Lele for 10 base power more (and is either going to be KOed regardless, or going to be outspeeding you to the Moonblast. It only misses out on the non-existent Tapu Bulu, which could be better checked with Fire Fang which happens to also hit the far more common Celesteela. A sample Z-move set on Garchomp would be a SD - EQ - Outrage - Fire Fang set with Dragonium-Z or another move instead of Outrage like Rock Slide, in which case you'll use Groundium-Z.

As for Excadrill I'm not really sure what this achieves other than beating Mimikyu, and as for Rapid Spin it isn't very common on BSS for a good reason: the games are usually too short for Rapid Spin to be worth it, except in cases that involve something like Charizard. Generally, Zard-Y teams work around this by using a secondary Mega Evolution (like Metagross, Lucario, Kangaskhan, etc.) that isn't worried about Stealth Rock.

As for the last 2 (or 3 if you take out Excadrill) I suggest looking through this post I made on common cores, it covers a lot but give you a lot of options. Pokemon like Mimikyu, Tapu Lele, Snorlax, and secondary Mega Evolutions I mentioned above sound like a good place to start.

Hope this helps!

Thank You!
Also, would running focus blast on my Zard instead of air slash and dragon pulse and replacing the other move with roost be helpful?

 

[marilli]

in short: depends.

Focus Blast does actually hit things, but it only really hits Heatran and Tyranitar. Focus Blast actually often misses out on the KO cuz (aside from missing) T-tars in the format tend to invest enough into special defense to survive Focus Blast from Mega Gengar (generally, the whole point of using Tyranitar is that its a really good Mega Gengar check with Pursuit.) Those aren't good odds because you have to make good plays just to roll that 70% dice. Going for Air Slash and hoping for some luck in an otherwise losing game is a scenario that occurs far more often than the Tyranitar matchup, so despite it being only 28.5% of success (or often, 8% if you need to flinch Twice) vs 70% of success, you may still gain more wins off of Air Slash.

Ideally you would want to build your team so your Charizard doesn't actually have to click that move (and those Ground-types are a good place to start if you are looking to not needing to him them), but depending on the rest of the team it can be helpful.

So, 1. you shouldn't leave it off the table completely. 2. But I do hesitate on saying Focus Blast is definitely better.

I would definitely not use Roost on a 252/252 frail Zard-Y. So I guess an option here is Air Slash / Focus Blast. Or, you could try Flamethrower + Overheat and only use 1 of those coverage moves. You could also try Flame Charge. Charizard has a lot of options in the format. I do think HP Ice offers you great coverage; if you are hesitant on HP Ice because of the IV requirement you might want to check out the Giveaways subforum.

 

[Ika Ika Musume]

A few things to note on top of what is above all of which I agree with, Air Slash is okay in certain other matchups asides from Kommo-o, in particular the Charizard vs Charizard Matchup where Charizard Y can pressure both opposing Charizard Y and in particular Charizard X with Air Slash, 2HKOing non-bulky Zard X and pressuring bulkier X variants with the flinch. Potentially Flinching Mimikyu when you break its disguise is also a plus. It certainly isn't the most common move, but realise that it is also matchup specific.

Generally on any team as well you want a singular ground type. The reason for this is that you have a limited amount to work with (6 pokemon), having two pokemon doing the same job lowers the potential of what your team can accomplish so compressing your roles is important. There are very few exceptions to this so having Excadrill and Garchomp on the same team is not advised. If you are running Garchomp, I would tend away from Rocky Helmet + No Bulk + Set Up, these things work against each other since one wants you to take hits, the other wants you to avoid taking hits.

 

[buddytrooper18]

Thank you

 

[PPB]

We can rebuild "him." We have the technology.