Resource BSS Viability Rankings

cant say

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#76
Bro I'm so noob that I can't even understand what a Balanced team is... I know you guys know a lot so I wonder if you can guide me, provide a link or something to understand what those words mean, thanks in advance.
http://www.smogon.com/dp/articles/pokemon_dictionary

Balance
This type of team does not rely on any single type of Pokemon. Generally speaking, balanced teams have a couple of sweepers, backed up by a number of walls and/or tanks. Most teams of this type will utilize a form or two of entry hazards. The most successful balanced teams often revolve around a certain threat, while the other teammates seek to help guarantee a sweep by the said threat.
 

Psynergy

Fighting defines me, and I will not lose.
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#77
This is coming much later than I wanted it to, but with USUM starting to come out I've decided to quickly get this final VR update in place. Due to time constraints not everyone was able to vote, but for the sake of having the VR as up-to-date as possible before USUM we're updating with 5/7 votes. As with this update, you might have noticed that every VR update throughout SM has a lot of Pokemon being moved. This is mainly a result of the annoying staggered releases for Mega Stones so USUM will probably see less of these mass changes, but I'd also like to encourage people to make nominations more often. There were still plenty of viable Pokemon that went unranked until now that should've been ranked sooner, as well as many rises and drops, so don't be afraid to nominate something especially if it isn't already ranked! There's still a whole new game's worth of BSS this gen though, so we'll see how that will shake things up. With that, here's the final SM update.


Toxapex: B+ -> A
cant say: disagree, I don't think Toxapex alone is that good, it just fits on certain teams very well, like on stall or with tapu bulu. If you want a bulky water I'd usually recommend fini, although recover + regen sets it apart in a way. I'd rather A-

chemcoop: Disagree, I think this thing is closer to A-. While it is incredibly tanky, there are a number of common mons that can just obliterate it and it's nowhere near as splashable as other A rank mons. Pex excels on certain common and successful team comps, but you can't throw a random Toxapex on expect it to do well on its own.

NOVED: yeah

Psynergy: I think this is too high of a jump, I agree that Toxapex has become more flexible with Blaziken becoming more and more oppressive but I'd rather see this go to A- than jump all the way to A. I don't Toxapex is that flexible compared to the other bulky Waters.

Solerme: Great for stalls, good for balanced teams as well. Fantastic bulk, good ability in Regenerator and a nice defensive typing that can make it able to deal with stuff such as Mega Blaziken. A-

Porygon2: A -> A+
cant say: agree. this is probably the best bulky mon in the game. it acts as a glue mon for so many teams, and knock off is way less prevalent this gen thanks to Z moves. fighting weakness is very easily covered too thanks to things like mence/mimi/lando/fini/gyara etc exisiting. weakness to blaziken is what holds it back from S in all honesty

chemcoop: Agree, I've been hyping up the duck since SM started. It's literally impossible to OHKO unless you're using a +1/+2 super effective attack or Mega Luke, gets great coverage, and three solid abilities. Plus, being able to pick off standard Mimikyu with +2 Analytic FP is nice.

NOVED: yeah

Psynergy: Sure, Porygon2 is insanely versatile and it can fit on almost any team, and it's incredibly difficult for teams to break if they don't carry Fighting-types, or Knock Off and Toxic specifically for it. Don't think much else needs to be said, Porygon2 isn't the god it was in way back in pre-bank but it's still amazing.

Solerme: One of the strongest mons in the tier. It can hit hard with Download and Analytic, it's almost never OHKOd (and hardly 2hkod by unboosted non super effective moves), it has a gigantic movepool in both offense and support, it can heal up and can even be annoying with its third ability Trace. I'm strongly voting A+ for this

Celesteela: A -> A+
cant say: disagree. this thing does have potential to be really annoying to face, and its set diversity means you can never be truly sure what it is, but it loses to too many things and competes with other good steels for a team slot. "A" is just fine.

chemcoop: Agree, Celesteela has a great typing, stats, and coverage. It forces your opponent to bring certain mons to deal with it, which makes your team preview easier. Also, SpD Cele literally does not die to non super effective attacks and is one of the few reliable Lele switch-ins.

NOVED: yeah

Psynergy: Yes Celesteela is broken. Good thing more broken Fire and Electric-types exist that kill it because beating Celesteela without one is a huge pain. This just walls things for days and forces free switches so easily that it can just solo teams that aren't well-equipped for it. I don't use this mon as much as I should.

Solerme: It's a pretty strong mon, and can run a lot of different sets, each of them very effectively, but many top threat can deal with it, plus the meta adapted to it too. Stay A.

Mega Swampert: B -> B+
cant say: agree. this is kinda tricky to rank, because it assumes you're using rain support. Mega Swampert sucks on its own, but with Pelipper it is a solid B+.

chemcoop: Disagree, Mega Pert is only as good as rain is, and I would say rain is currently a B rank strat. Pert outside of rain is pretty bad lol.

NOVED: yeah

Psynergy: Don't feel strongly enough about this one, but I don't think it's that much better than Kingdra so I'll vote B. After using rain a ton this season I just don't think rain is that great right now, it's amazing when it works but there's a ton of annoying mons that mess with it and the Ground typing (while very notable) doesn't really help enough over Kingdra I feel.

Solerme: Stay B. already rated this earlier

Mega Manectric: B- -> B
cant say: agree. intimidate + super fast volt switch is really cool, especially against mimikyu. koko/thund-t outclass it but flamethrower/overheat for ferrothorn is great, and not taking up a Z move slot is cool in a way...

chemcoop: Agree, Mega Mane has a great speed tier, intimidate, and coverage. Forms a neat intimidate/voltturn core with Lando-T and Gyara. Outclassed by other electrics like Koko/Thundy-T and doesn't hit as hard as you would expect a mega to.

NOVED: yeah

Psynergy: Yes I said this last time I'm pretty sure. Mega Manectric is better than B-, it's not an amazing Mega but that coverage is very annoying for some teams especially with that kind of speed tier. Electric-types are broken and having Lightning Rod makes it a neat Electric check pre-Mega so I think this fits better in B.

Solerme: Volt Switch+Intimidate is no joke, specially when combined with stuff like Gyarados or Landorus-T. It also has a solid offensive movepool. B+

Glalie: B -> B+
cant say: disagree. you can't just use this, it needs to have the team built around it so it can set up. Even if it does get set up, there are so many anti-setup techs going around for things like Eeveepass etc like Perish Song, Haze, phasing etc. so it's just really hard to pull it off consistently.

chemcoop: Agree, I started seeing some neat and effective Glalie strats in the high 1800s/1900s in the past season. Really only requires support from one of Serp, Mimi, or even WoW Blaziken to get rolling. However, it does require luck and your opponent lacking Haze, Perish Song, Roar/WW to succeed, so I can't justify it any higher than B+.

NOVED: yeah

Psynergy: Didn't see a single Glalie in my time laddering so I can't say much about this one. I would probably put it on par with a lot of the B+ mons but I don't think it gets enough use for a B+ mon. I think this is fine in B but I'm not opposed to seeing this in B+ either.

Solerme: B+. It can be a pretty incisive win factor. It also applies pressure on the team preview, since you -need- to bring stuff to prevent it to set up. Yet it needs dedicated support, and can be pretty disappointing if you don't get enough luck.

Mega Lopunny: B- -> B
cant say: disagree. I actually think this should be B+. It's pretty decently anti-meta, has great coverage thanks to Scrappy, and crazy speed. I've seen it a decent amount and it seems pretty good.

chemcoop: Agree, speed tier and scrappy are pretty clutch. Definitely is a mon you should have switch-ins/a game plan for, but it's not a top tier fighting threat when you have things like Mega Blaze running around. Like Mane, Lop can also be a bit underwhelming in power.

NOVED: yeah this is better than b-. speed tier is amazing.

Psynergy: While I didn't see this enough I think Mega Lopunny is better suited to B than B- just for its Speed and fast Fake Out. I think it's better than most of the things in B- right now but I also don't think it's amazing just because it's a bit on the weak side for a Mega.

Solerme: B. Great speed, good ability and decent offensive presence. It still lacks the damage to be a top threat, but can be decisive with some support.

Sylveon: B- -> C
cant say: agree. sadly this thing just isn't good anymore. it just doesn't excel in anything. It's speed sucks, and it's not tanky enough to stay around. it was really only good last gen as an offensive garchomp/thundurus check, but neither of those are prevalent enough anymore to use this

chemcoop: Agree, this thing is bad this gen lol. Why would you use this when you could just use Lele? Or any number of the other new fairies for that matter...?

NOVED: yeah sylv is underwhelming af.

Psynergy: Who even uses this outside of Eeveelution meme teams? I don't think there's much reason to use this in SM just because there's so many better Fairy-types that aren't stupid slow and physically frail. Drop.

Solerme: C. With the prevalence of fairies, steel-types are way more common now. Also, most of those fairies outclass it. Of course it still hits pretty hard, yet there is a pretty long list of pokemon that can act as it, but better.

Raikou: B- -> C
cant say: agree. similar situation to sylveon, had a fantastic niche in oras as a thundurus check but that doesn't exist anymore. why use this when there's koko/thund-t/xurkitree?

chemcoop: Agree, Raikou is just to outclassed by other elecs to really carve out a solid niche. Despite that, I will say that Sub CM Lefties can be quite dangerous, as can something like Ghostium-Z (252 SpA Raikou Never-Ending Nightmare (160 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Metagross: 156-184 (100.6 - 118.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO)

NOVED: yeah koko is always better

Psynergy: Likewise with Sylveon I don't think anyone really uses this. It's not awful and I've seen a couple teams use it but it gets nowhere near enough usage to convince me this should be in B- anymore. There's just so many better Electric-types that don't need to abuse SubCM + Pressure to work.

Solerme: C. although i do like its niche of having screens, roar, and volt switch it's widely outclassed by stronger stuff in both, support roles and offensive roles (either calm mind sets or specs ones)

Gigalith: B- -> C
cant say: agree. sand offense isn't as good anymore, and even if people want to use it they stick to ttar/hippo. gravity and explosion are cool though.

chemcoop: Agree, definitely the most inferior of the 3 sand setters. Has a neat niche in Gravity + Explosion to set up Drill against all mons, but Hippo/TTar have a lot more utility/viability

NOVED: stay b-, i like this thing the bulk makes it cool and it get a kill really early pretty often. explosion is cool

Psynergy: This probably wouldn't even be ranked if I didn't use it and while I still think Gigalith is very viable, you need to be using Gravity or else it's outclassed by Hippowdon or Tyranitar. Still a cool niche to shut down people relying on Ground immunities but it's not worth B- honestly.

Solerme: i'd never use it outside of its sand setter role, and if i need a sand setter Hippowdon and TTar are far stronger, so yeah C.

Alolan Muk: UR -> B/B+
cant say: agree. really nice lele/koko/thund/gengar check.

chemcoop: Agree with B for this thing. AV is a nice check to Koko/Lele/Gengar, and it can act as a nice pursuit trapper on stall teams.

NOVED: B probably. i dont really like this outside of stall but its worth b.

Psynergy: Yeah how'd this go so long unranked? Muk is pretty cool and I liked it when I used it, valuable typing that lets it check tons of special mons with AV and it's a solid Pursuit user that actually beats Tapus. Kind of bad against things it isn't specifically designed to beat though so I think it's fine in B.

Solerme: Strong special tank, has a priority, good typing, answers to top thread such as Tapus or MGengar and can be annoying with Minimize. B sounds good to me.


Mega Tyranitar: UR -> A
cant say: agree. gets benched vs blaziken teams but it actually beats nearly all the rest of the meta. DD+3 attacls is best but I've seen a lot of bulky 4 attacks sets that are pretty cool.

chemcoop: Disagree, I think A- is more appropriate. Mega Tar is really hard to take down, and hits like a truck after a DD. With Grassy Terrain support, this thing can easily boost and sweep in the absence of something like Lele. Does just lose to Blaziken though so :/

NOVED: A- or b+. this is cool but not insane as a mega slot. a is too high i think.

Psynergy: Mega Tyranitar is really good, that speed tier is valuable and it has the bulk to set up on a lot of things despite its awful weaknesses. I know Tyranitar is way more sets than just Mega but it accounts for like half of all Tyranitars and isn't any worse than those are.

Solerme: DD Mega TTar needs to be respected. It has enough speed to outspeed base 130 after a DD, great offensive movepool and sand gives it a cool spdef boost. Anyway i feel that it's still a little bit behind the A rank mons. A-

Mega Gardevoir: UR -> B-
cant say: agree. not sold on this, there's almost no reason to use this over Lele apart from really strong Hyper Voices, so I can't imagine it going any higher.

chemcoop: Agree, punching through subs with Hyper Voice is cool and 165 base SpA is nothing to trifle with. Also gets a lot of neat support options, but lack of bulk/being outclassed by other non-mega fairies keeps Garde from being much higher than B-.

NOVED: yeah b- is fine, maybe even c.

Psynergy: I don't think Mega Gardevoir is hit as badly as Sylveon is since its Speed tier isn't as awful, though I don't see much of this either. I think it's better suited to B- just because it faces a lot of competition from Tapus, but none of the Tapus have a crazy strong Fairy STAB and I think that sets Gardevoir apart enough to warrant use.

Solerme: Garde has tools to carve a niche in the B tiers. Boosted Hyper Voice can hit hard and go through subs, it can offer a lot of speed control options to the team, from icy wind to twave, yet it remains a discount Tapu Lele, also using a Mega slot.

Mega Latias: UR -> B
cant say: agree. the one true Blaziken check. doesn't do much more but that niche alone is very valuable

chemcoop: Agree, this thing has some pretty absurd bulk and can actually deal with Mega Blaze pretty reliably which is neat. Access to bolt/beam coverage and CM/Stored power is also good, but Mega Latias is just outclassed by other dragon type megas like Mence that also deal with Blaze pretty well.

NOVED: b is fine. cm sets are good. at least b for sure.

Psynergy: I used this quite a bit this season and Mega Latias is pretty cool, it's a fast and bulky CM user that can take games on its own if played right. That being said its STAB combination is lacking and it needs support to really function well, whether it's on an Eevee team or not. I think B is appropriate for this.

Solerme: The combination of superb defenses, calm mind and stored power make it a good call, also considering that it beats Mega Blaziken. Yet again it "wastes" a mega slot, when there are better megas and specially considering that it still beats Blaziken in its regular form.

Mega Altaria: UR -> B-
cant say: disagree. I actually think it's on a similar level to m-latias so I'm voting B. It's another really nice Blaziken check but has a way to hurt Ferro and also checks Gyarados and Charizard. The problem is that it has trouble switching into some things before mega evolving

chemcoop: Agree, this thing is neat in theory but weak in practice. Cool typing allows it to more or less take on both Zards, but I have no idea why you would run this over Mence. DD + Fire Blast is cool for dealing with Ferrothorn/Blaze teams, but SpD Celesteela still stomps this thing lol.

NOVED: c. underwhelming compared to mence.

Psynergy: Same deal as some of the other Megas, it isn't bad but also isn't used enough to be ranked higher than B. I'd be more comfortable with this in B- just because Fairy-types and Dragon Dancers are roles with heavy competition as is. A Mega with those stats is going to have a tough time being used over other Megas but it's certainly viable.

Solerme: DD + Pixilate is a decent way to punch holes in opposing teams, and it can also run specially offensive sets too, yet, Mega Altaria is kind of outclassed by Mega Salamence in both its main sets, and it's offensive typing isn't amazing. B-

Amoonguss: UR -> B
cant say: agree. this is a cool mon, checks koko/fini/thund-t/breloom/serp without needing to use mega venu. weakness to mence/blaziken/lele holds it back though

chemcoop: Agree, Regen+Spore makes this like a bad Mega Venu but it also doesn't require a mega slot. Gets access to FP too which is kinda neat. Does turn into a snack for common mons like Lele and Mence though.

NOVED: yeah this thing is cool. spore + regen is dope

Psynergy: Excellent mon, Spore user with Mega Venusaur's good typing but with Regenerator instead of Thick Fat. You really aren't going to use it over Venusaur unless you need the typing but can't afford the Mega slot, with Spore and Rengerator being excellent bonuses. Really solid B rank mon I'd say.

Solerme: Spore, Bulk and Regenerator make it worth it a spot in the B ranks.

Sharpedo: UR -> B-/C
cant say: B-. Sash+Destiny Bond is super annoying to face, especially for offensive teams as it's basically guaranteed to get a kill, but it usually gets two. However, relying on Focus Sash to function sucks because there are lots of things that like using the sash, and rocks exists

chemcoop: Agree for B-. Sash + DBond is nice and access to Water/Ice/Dark coverage is good. Gets walloped by anything that resists it + priority + playing around DBond shenanigans though.

NOVED: c. dmg output is too low.

Psynergy: I've seen a a couple wild sets from Sharpedo and it's a legitimately threatening mon in the right hands. With Focus Sash and Destiny Bond it can very realistically trade itself for 2 KOs which is often more than enough to steal a game, but its super frail and anything it doesn't kill will result in a dead shark. High risk high reward mon that should definitely be respected, I think B- is appropriate but I'm not opposed to C rank.

Solerme: Speed Boost is always a fantastic ability, no matter what. With it, the combination of Sharpedo's decent movepool and Destiny Bond, can score some decent results on the field. B-

Mega Sharpedo: UR -> B-
cant say: agree. great coverage and very decent power with strong jaw. 4MSS kinda sucks for it though, because it needs protect, and likes both destiny bond and substitute, and then needs to choose coverage moves.

chemcoop: Agree, Strong Jaw + Crunch/Psychic Fangs/Ice Fang is no joke. This thing also bodybags a lot of common offensive mons after Rocks damage. Big cons for this thing are using a mega slot, requiring protect to get set up, and only having one chance to sweep since it loses speed boost once it megas. Also very lacking in bulk.

NOVED: not that great but the dmg increase from regular is very nice. b- is good.

Psynergy: I know some people have reservations about Mega Shark but it's way less risky than regular Sharpedo and makes up for the majority of shark's usage, which is a lot higher than you'd expect. It hits obscenely hard and has solid synergy with Tapu Lele but it suffers from Mega slot syndrome and still being frail. Sounds like a B- mon to me.

Solerme: B-. I do like Mega Sharpedo, yet i feel that even gaining more offensive presence, its mega isn't that far ahead if the normal form for two reasons: With a Sash or a Z Move Sharpedo can often do as much damage as its mega, without wasting a mega slot; as a mega it's a discount Mega Gyarados.

Milotic: UR -> B-
cant say: agree. I'm really not a fan of it but it is a decent bulky Water with Recover and I do have trouble against them. Flame Orb (can't be toxiced and good status absorber) + Marvel Scale, Haze and Recover means there are few things that can actually bust through it.

chemcoop: Agree, it gets pretty tanky on both physical/special sides with its natural special bulk and marvel scale + flame orb. Also gets access to recover, which gives it a niche over Fini/Suicune. Mirror Coat/Haze are also neat on this thing to bop something like Scarf Lele and to stop Glalie nonsense. Still outclassed by other bulky waters imo.
*You also never know when you'll run into the random Competitive + Adrenaline Orb set that sweeps you when it phazes in your Mence/Lando with Dragon Tail :thinking:

NOVED: sure, maybe even c. dont know a lot about it but decent bulky water.

Psynergy: Both chemcoop and I have had some fun using this and I think it's legitimately good with Flame Orb Marvel Scale. A bulky water with reliable recovery and pseudo-immunity to dangerous status is a great niche and the burn nerf makes this low-key fantastic. Mirror Coat with that bulk is also a cool way to punish Electric-types too. Generally less splashable than other bulky Waters though so I think B- is fine for this.

Solerme: impressive bulk, mirror coat, two decent abilities and a way to recover hps. Though it's outclassed by other Bulky waters that stands in higher ranks. B-

Nidoking: UR -> B-
cant say: disagree, should be slightly higher. The Focus Sash set has seen a significant increase in usage and gives it a really solid niche as a lead / sweep stopper / late game cleaner thanks to its insane coverage options. I'm gonna vote B but honestly it could be B+

chemcoop: Agree, it's a cool anti-lead sash mon with it's typing, movepool, and ability to decimate common leads like Koko/Lele/Ferro. Sash does lack a lot of power but LO Sheer Force leaves it susceptible to getting bopped by faster strong mons since Nidoking lacks bulk/good speed tier.

NOVED: yeah its coverage is awesome. sash sets are great.

Psynergy: There's been talk of Sticky Web teams with Nidoking enough to the point where I've seen them myself on the ladder. It's legitimately threatening with all that wild coverage but it really wants Sticky Web support in order truly stand out. Any Poison-type with good coverage and power is worth ranking in my book though.

Solerme: B-. Decent typing, great offensive presence. Too bad it has mediocre stats, but with some support it can work.

Shuckle: UR -> C
cant say: disagree. however i'm super biased because I've used it quite a bit. Webs offense is really solid if you have a Blaziken / Mence answer, and Encore / Rock Tomb keeps anti-lead boosters in check so you don't just go down 0-3 from turn 1 lol. I like B- for it.

chemcoop: Agree, very 1-dimensional Pokémon but Webs support is cool for uncommon mons like Nidoking and Mega Pinsir. Pretty easy to stop/outplay though, so I don't consider this thing to be that viable.

NOVED: yeah webs is a cool strat. worthy of c.

Psynergy: An extension of Nidoking, Sticky Web gained a bit of popularity with Kartana and Nidoking and it's fairly strong against teams relying on high Speed mons like Koko and Greninja. Shuckle depends a ton on the power of its teammates and it's deadweight against teams that lack grounded mons though so I think it should stay in C rank.

Solerme: Webs + SR + Tomb is a great support combination, but this mon does just one thing and there are mons that actually do it better. It has a niche as a Sticky Web setter of course, yet i won't place it higher than C.

Pelipper: B+ -> B
cant say: disagree. rain is a viable strat, but unlike Politoed this thing can actually function on its own due to high power STABs and solid typing. And it's a semi-decent check to Blaziken which is cool.

chemcoop: Agree, good dual stab combo and arguably a better pure rain setter than Politoed. Pretty bad at tanking hits on the special side though, and doesn't really do much outside of setting rain.

NOVED: i think drizzle is b+ worthy. rain might not be super crazy but its def viable. i'd see this as on par with other b+ mons.

Psynergy: Like I said earlier I don't think rain is actually that good right now, to that end Pelipper should absolutely not be ranked about the rain sweepers. It only serves as a rain team support so I think this should be in B and not in B+.

Solerme: Rain happened to be a pretty cool strategy in gen7. Peli's Hurricane is actually a pretty nice way to clear Grass-types for the Swift Swim sweepers. It gets Tail wind too, but you won't expect more from it. B

Politoed: UR -> B
cant say: agree. worse than pelipper. I'd almost put it in B-

chemcoop: Agree, decent rain setter that gets walled by grass types unlike Pelipper. However, it does have access to a variety of support moves like encore/perish song/hypnosis that can allow it to stop other strats like EeveePass and Glalie which is something that Pelipper cannot do.

NOVED: same thought as pelipper, B+.

Psynergy: Politoed should definitely be ranked even if rain isn't super strong right now. While Pelipper is generally easier to run on a rain team, Politoed offers better overall bulk, Encore and Perish Song. Politoed really doesn't have many moves it wants so having Perish Song + Protect as a checkmate for EeveePass is excellent. A rain setter with utility outside of setting rain is definitely worth consideration so this should definitely be in B alongside the other rain mons.

Solerme: Doesn't have Peli's offensive coverage, but gets nice support moves in return such as Perish Song and Encore. As for Peli, i won't place it higher than B cause it's limited to a single role.


Changes:
Toxapex moves from B+ to A-
Porygon2 moves from A to A+
Celesteela moves from A to A+
Mega Manectric moves from B- to B
Glalie moves from B to B+
Mega Lopunny moves from B- to B
Sylveon moves from B- to C
Raikou moves from B- to C
Gigalith moves from B- to C
Alolan Muk moves from UR to B
Mega Tyranitar moves from UR to A-
Mega Gardevoir moves from UR to B-
Mega Latias moves from UR to B
Mega Altaria moves from UR to B-
Amoonguss moves from UR to B
Sharpedo moves from UR to B-
Mega Sharpedo moves from UR to B-
Milotic moves from UR to B-
Nidoking moves from UR to B-
Shuckle moves from UR to C
Pelipper moves from B+ to B
Politoed moves from UR to B
 
#78
Naganadel-->A+ (though I'd probably even say S)

Oh boy, where to start? Naganadel has been a major threat in BSS, having excellent coverage in Draco Meteor and Sludge Wave as STAB in tandem with Fire Blast/Flamethrower for Steel-types or HP Ground for Heatran and Tyranitar. It has a high Special Attack (127) along with a Speed stat one point lower than Greninja (121), getting the jump on staples such as Mega Salamence. Were that enough, it gets Nasty Plot to boost its high Special Attack as well as Beast Boost giving it a Speed boost for every KO it gets, further limiting options to RK it. Like, this thing can set up on and OHKO Chansey, arguably the best special tank in the metagame. If that isn't a testament to how absurd this monster is, I don't know what is.
 

Psynergy

Fighting defines me, and I will not lose.
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#79
We've been discussing the new Ultra Beasts as a council recently since we wanted to have them at least ranked quickly rather than wait long enough for someone to nominate them all for a formal VR update. These are preliminary rankings so please feel free to continue discussing them or nominate them for a different rank, there were varying opinions on the latter two and some of us believe they can be ranked higher but they've been ranked modestly for the time being. We also haven't touched at all on which existing Pokemon are affected by these new additions or access to new tutors so feel free to go crazy with those nominations. It's still early into the USUM meta, but don't hesitate to comment!



Naganadel has been ranked as A+ by unanimous decision. This doesn't need much explanation, it fills a similar role as Blaziken as a fast dangerous wallbreaker and sweeper that can break down teams by itself if left unchecked. Access to Nasty Ploy and Z-Moves also make it a very dangerous cleaner in a meta with so many dangerous Fairy-types, making it an excellent fit on most offensive teams. However, it often relies heavily on finding an opportunity to set up with Nasty Plot in order to sweep and isn't very bulky, which leaves it easily checked by Mimikyu, Focus Sash users, or anything that can manage to survive a +2 STAB move from it.

Stakataka has been ranked as B. Its insane bulk allows it to reliably set up Trick Room itself and proceed to fire away with incredibly strong Gyro Balls, while also having the bulk to shrug off almost any physical attack. It can also function fine out of Trick Room with a Choice Band and break down foes with its insane power and raw bulk, making it a somewhat flexible threat. Its huge weaknesses to Fighting and Ground are both very common, though, and lack of recovery makes it difficult for Stakataka to function as a support Pokemon. At its best it's on par with most Pokemon in A rank but its typing and reliance on proper team support brings it down.

Blacephalon has been ranked as B. Its wildly varying stat spread makes it a high risk, high reward Pokemon, with incredible power but mediocre bulk that leaves it unable to switch into attacks safely. Fire/Ghost is a dangerous STAB combination that few Pokemon can switch into safely, and the sheer power it offers make it both an effective Choice Scarf user and Focus Sash user. Z-Moves can also let it nuke something for a quick Beast Boost and snowball its way through bulkier foes. Its awful bulk and only "good" Speed can also make it a liability against some teams though, and its movepool is lacking beyond its STAB options and Hidden Power.
 
#80
Mega Salamence, S to A+.

Let's be real, this Pokemon isn't how it used to be anymore. Mimikyu rules the tier more than it ever has before and is always ready to be checking Salamence, especially with its new found z move. Fatter mons like defensive helmet Landorus-Therian and Hippowdon are very common right now, especially with stealth rock's influence on the meta increasing. Both of these mons are also commonly paired with Naganadel, which isn't much of a check or counter to Salamence by any means but naturally outspeeds by one point which is annoying in those 1v1 matchups. The competition for a mega slot is also very high, with Charizard Mega X/Y, Gyarados, Blaziken and Metagross all being higher in usage and more suited to a metagame dominated by Mimikyu and friends, where Salamence checks are far from short.

I hate writing VR posts because I'm bad at justifying stuff like this, but if this doesn't convince anyone then I hope it at least sparks some discussion

edit: I can't spell
 
#81
I've been testing things out for this meta on the PS ladder for a while and played a shitload of games. Mega Mence teams were actually what helped me climb the most. I think it's still incredibly good in this meta, and even still S tier. I think Mega Blaziken is the best mega right now(or at least top 2) and Mence has a really solid spot in being the best counter to Mega Blaziken. Gyara can deal with it as well but it's not nearly as good as Mence because Roost is just really huge. Aerilate attacks give it so much pressure which other Blaziken counters like Fini and Pex don't have. There's still just as few things that can handle a Mence with DD's up as before and I don't think it lost enough to warrant a drop.

Naga and Mimi are both handled pretty well with common Mence teammates. I think Tran + Mence is a great core in this meta right now that can handle Naga. Mence + P2 is another super solid core that handles Mimikyu. Seeing all three of these mons together I think will be pretty common as well. When you have healthy fat mons to switch around with against Mimikyu it makes it a lot harder to keep Disguise up in the long run. Mence is imo the best mega to have on these bulky types of balance teams because of it's great ability to deal with Blaziken, being a super solid Ground immunity, and giving teams a lot more pressure/a solid wincon. Right now I still feel like that role is worthy of S. Its usage is criminal right now and I expect it to rise as the meta develops.
 

chemcoop

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#82
I'm definitely a bit torn on Mence's position in the meta right now. The meta changes that USUM brought didn't change the fact that MegaMence has an absurd bulk/speed combo, a great pre-mega ability, reliable recovery and access to DD and strong Aerilate moves that decimate anything that doesn't resist them. But at the same time, increases in Mimikyu, Gyara, and Metagross usage, as well as Naganadel's appearance have made it much harder to get Mence in safely to set up and clean sweep an opponent.

After reaching 1800+ on cart this season, I've found that I do bench MMence more than I did in SM BSS; however, it still fills an essential role in the metagame. As NOVED said, it's one of a select group of 'mons that can switch into and threaten Mega Blaze (outside of HP Ice variants :| ) and it shines as the only Blaze switch-in that can also exert a lot of pressure on the rest of an opponent's team. Mence definitely pulled me out of a number of tight spots this season, and I think it's still capable of powering though USUM BSS teams as long as you set yourself up correctly (as is the case with any sweeper). To summarize, I still think Mence is the destructive monster that it was in SM, but it does have to pick its matchups a bit more carefully. It should remain S until further meta developments imo.

RE: Hippo/Lando popularity
Idk where these guys are when I ladder. I haven't faced that many of either, just a TON of Gyara/Blaze, Gyara/Zard, Meta/Blaze teams lol
 
#83
Mega Gyarados A to A+

Mold Breaker is a premium ability thanks to Mimikyu's ubuquity. It can even run Iron Head if it doesn't want to rely on flinches to beat bulky Mimikyu! And it gets lots of setup opportunities against many of the other most frequently-used mons, making it threatening even if its offense at +1 is still often mediocre. The flexibility to run Taunt or Substitute helps too.
 

Psynergy

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#84
There's been some good discussion on Salamence so far and I think it's become clear that Mega Salamence for A+ is not as absurd of a nomination as it might sound, but I want to highlight a few other Pokemon I think are worth discussing right now. These have not been voted on yet, these are just nominations so I encourage anyone to post any disagreements or additional thoughts. Expect a proper update closer to the start of the next season.

A+ -> S
Landorus-T
has more or less picked up where Garchomp left off last gen as the premier Ground-type and with USUM its usage has only gone up. Landorus-T is incredibly strong and its versatility makes it very easy to fit on a team due to its ability to check numerous threats. While it's not quite as splashable as Mimikyu, Landorus-T shares a lot of the same traits that make Mimikyu an S rank threat. It doesn't command the same respect that Mimikyu needs at Team Preview, but the role compression and versatility it offers arguably make it just as prominent as the other S rank Pokemon.

A+ -> A-
Volcarona
is essentially a less oppressive version of Blaziken, this hasn't changed at all since SM gave it a stupid amount of Z-Moves to abuse. That being said its presence has continued to dwindle, and I'd argue part of that has to do with the meta being increasingly hostile to setup sweepers that rely so much on actually setting up, as well as Stealth Rock usage staying consistent. It's still just as strong of a threat as it's always been but the rise in Charizard and Gyarados usage as well as AV Landorus-T becoming a more popular set make things tougher for Volcarona. Regardless, I don't think Volcarona holds up as an A+ threat anymore.

A- -> B
Mega Heracross
is just not as effective as it was in ORAS with Thunder Wave support getting nerfed and Trick Room teams having a much better Mega option in Mawile, leaving Mega Heracross as an awkward in-between. Mega Heracross is still a fairly strong Mega with proper support but being a middling speed Bug/Fighting-type is really bad in a meta with Fairies, Fires and Mega Salamence around. This shouldn't be in A- anymore, there are better Pokemon for each of its roles at this point.

A -> A-
Primarina
has never been my favorite and most people are aware of that, but I think the meta is even less kind to a less bulky and more offensive Tapu Fini. Naganadel's presence hasn't helped it at all, but its lack of physical bulk compared to Fini hurts a lot right now with so many physical threats around. Its niche as an offensive Fini doesn't translate as well to current meta unless you need its ability to hit through Substitute users. In comparison Fini is just a lot easier to fit on a team and fills more valuable roles than just bulky offensive Water/Fairy-type, so I don't think these two should be in the same rank.

B+ -> A-
Kartana
has been a new favorite of mine since late SM but I think now is an appropriate time to bring it up with favorable meta trends resulting in more Kartana usage. Tutors barely changed anything for Kartana but less Salamence and Aegislash helps it quite a bit, and it benefits a lot from the general trend towards Mimikium Z Mimikyu and bulky Landorus-T without Superpower. It also has a favorable matchup against Gyarados which is all the rage right now, but that doesn't mean the stuff that ruins Kartana no longer exists. Fire-types like Charizard and Blaziken are still as common as ever and its awkward Speed tier without any form of boosting does limit its sweeping potential a bit. That being said I think A- is appropriate for Kartana now.
 
#85

A+ -> S
I agree with Psy said about Landorus-T. I have this mon on maybe 80% of my teams and the variation of sets that its running isn't something to scoff at. It does so many of its jobs extremely well I find myself picking it more often than not at team Preview. While I agree it doesn't "command the respect" like Mimikyu does, it certainly asks for it. That being said Landorus-Therian is fantastic glue for a majority of prominent playstyles in the BSS metagame. This combined with its fantastic versatility I think is what puts it over the edge to qualify for S rank.


S-> S
Mega Salamence deserves the S rank for a good number of reasons and I'm uncomfortable with it being moved to A+. If given a free turn to set up one Dragon Dance it outspeeds the entire unboosted Metagame as well as applying decent amounts of pressure to the opposing team. Not even Celesteela is safe if Salamence is running Fire Fang it 2HKO's. One of the main reasons I could see it moving down is simply because it is prepared for on almost every team. Its one of the most popular mega evolutions in the tier and for good reason. I've been using this Pokemon a good amount and I see no reason that it should move down to A+. I do agree however that with the addition of Nagandel to the tier that Salamence does have more competition but due to the Variety of Salamence sets and different Variations I think Salamence should stay at S.

EDIT

A+ -> A
I haven't used Volcarona much so please take my statement with a grain of salt but it has preformed pretty poorly when I've been facing it on ladder. It faces an insane amount of pressure when trying to set up. I would even argue that Quiver Dance Pheromosa does it's job better and has more of a chance to set up when it forces a switch. Z-Shadow Claw Mimikyu is able to easily revenge kill Volcarona if it has just a little bit of chip (calc seen below). I do not agree with a drop to A- because of its great movepool and its ability to tear through common walls.

252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 145-172 (90.6 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
 
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#86

A+ -> S
I agree with Psy said about Landorus-T. I have this mon on maybe 80% of my teams and the variation of sets that its running isn't something to scoff at. It does so many of its jobs extremely well I find myself picking it more often than not at team Preview. While I agree it doesn't "command the respect" like Mimikyu does, it certainly asks for it. That being said Landorus-Therian is fantastic glue for a majority of prominent playstyles in the BSS metagame. This combined with its fantastic versatility I think is what puts it over the edge to qualify for S rank.


S-> S
Mega Salamence deserves the S rank for a good number of reasons and I'm uncomfortable with it being moved to A+. If given a free turn to set up one Dragon Dance it outspeeds the entire unboosted Metagame as well as applying decent amounts of pressure to the opposing team. Not even Celesteela is safe if Salamence is running Fire Fang it 2HKO's. One of the main reasons I could see it moving down is simply because it is prepared for on almost every team. Its one of the most popular mega evolutions in the tier and for good reason. I've been using this Pokemon a good amount and I see no reason that it should move down to A+. I do agree however that with the addition of Nagandel to the tier that Salamence does have more competition but due to the Variety of Salamence sets and different Variations I think Salamence should stay at S.

EDIT

A+ -> A
I haven't used Volcarona much so please take my statement with a grain of salt but it has preformed pretty poorly when I've been facing it on ladder. It faces an insane amount of pressure when trying to set up. I would even argue that Quiver Dance Pheromosa does it's job better and has more of a chance to set up when it forces a switch. Z-Shadow Claw Mimikyu is able to easily revenge kill Volcarona if it has just a little bit of chip (calc seen below). I do not agree with a drop to A- because of its great movepool and its ability to tear through common walls.

252+ Atk Mimikyu Never-Ending Nightmare (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 145-172 (90.6 - 107.5%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
I agree with your position on Lando and Volcarona, but not Mega Salamence. While it's a fantastic mon, every team usually does have something to take it on. If it wasn't able to set up, it can still be destroyed by an ice beam, hit hard by an HP ice, occasionally caught of guard by a scarfchomp, hit on the switch by a rock tomb, is weak to stealth rocks, etc. Not to mention, it is very hindered by every type of status. Toxic racks up lots of recoil if trying to use double edge or trying to set up, and even confusion is very risky, due to it's high attack. Another thing to take into account is that most Mimikyu obliterate it with ease. I know there are other mons tat have the properties I stated above, but I think they prevent this very threatening mon from being S tier. This mon rips through teams and it's pretty hard to find many flaws about it, which is why the ones I stated above are attributes of mons other than Mega Salamence.
 
#88
Shouldn't Hawlucha be... somewhere?
Electric Seed - Hawlucha with Tapu Koko is pretty strong.
It might be pretty strong in OU, but not so much in BSS. The ominpresent of mimikyu, landorus T, as well as lots of better physical sweepers make this mon mostly irrevlevant in this meta. If this mon were to be ranked, no higher than C. I'm sure one of the mods can explain this better than I can about hawlucha because I have some understanding of the BSS meta, but they most likely have a better understanding than me.
 

cant say

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#89
Shouldn't Hawlucha be... somewhere?
Electric Seed - Hawlucha with Tapu Koko is pretty strong.


It isn't used anywhere near enough to warrant a rank. Mega Salamence being legal here and not in OU is a huge reason for the differences in usage, why use Hawlucha (+Koko) when you can just use Mence..?
 
#90


It isn't used anywhere near enough to warrant a rank. Mega Salamence being legal here and not in OU is a huge reason for the differences in usage, why use Hawlucha (+Koko) when you can just use Mence..?
Yeah you're probably right. Salamence uses a Mega slot though, so that's pretty much the only reason to use Hawlucha. Looking at stats, unless you're super cautious about Speed then Salamence is a much better way to go.
 

Psynergy

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#91
I'd initially intended for this update to happen before BSSC started but nearing end of round 1 is close enough. This is the first formal vote in USUM, but since the meta changes haven't been too drastic there are fewer noms than past votes. Some of these may be revisited later, such as Kartana, so if these placements don't feel accurate enough feel free to speak up!

Mega Salamence: S -> A+
cant say: S, agree with chemcoop

chemcoop: Mence stays S. As the resident Mence user, I've found that while Mence does get benched a bit more than in SM, it is still a monster that you have to prepare for in both building and team preview lest you get swept. Although Mence usage declined among the masses, recent S7 stats from nouthuca showed that top-rated players still find Salamence to be THE mega for BSS.

DragonWhale: S, agree with chemcoop

NOVED: no. mence is a really strong mon, still deserves s for the same reasons we originally brought it up and i believe its lost nothing of value

Psynergy: I want to keep Mega Salamence in S for now. The current meta has definitely become more unkind to Salamence and it hates Mimikyu usage tilting things in favor of Gyarados, but I can't think of a decisive reason to drop it beyond its usage, which I still believe isn't for no reason. Definitely worth revisiting at the end of the season if its overall usage hasn't picked back up.

Solerme: MMence was already hurt by sm with the introduction of fast / strong fairies and fat steel-types such as Steela. Now with Usum and things like Naganadel around life has gotten even worse for Mence. I'm still unsure about this, cause it can always be game changing in the right situation, but we could say this even for other A+ mons. A+

Theorymon: A+ agree with solerme

Mega Gyarados: A -> A+
cant say: A+

chemcoop: Agree with A+ Gyara. Like Psynergy, I was sold on this 'mon since early SM and I believe the rise in Zard/Mimi/Meta/and even Blaze have made Gyara an essential part of the metagame that saw a significant rise in usage from SM S6 to USUM S7 (~15% -> ~21%!!). Checks/counters a number of significant threats in the metagame, and it isn't that hard to find opportunities for it to set up and punch holes through an opposing team.

DragonWhale: A+

NOVED: i dont think mega gyara is that great. i find it too weak for a sweeper and easily threatened/stopped by things like p2, tapus, & bulky mimi. i really cant see the amazing spots this thing is supposed to be in that ppl always talk about cause i always see this thing do shit unless its flinching.

Psynergy: Strongly agree with A+ for Mega Gyarados, I've been saying this thing is amazing since SM and it only got better in USUM. It may not have the same raw power and STAB moves but it has exactly the typing and ability it needs to be a devastating sweeper. Many teams run Mimikyu as a catch-all answer to the huge amount of sweepers in the meta but then you need something else for Gyarados. I still think those bulky Mimikyu spreads aren't that good but the fact that people are bulking them up for Gyarados is telling of how threatening it is.

Solerme: Agreed. It has an impressive coverage, good bulk, good typing also considering that it can make great use of the Mega/Non Mega choice to defend itself. Plus the combination of Intimidate and Mold Breaker is definitely strong. A+

Theorymon: A+

Landorus-T: A+ -> S
cant say: S

chemcoop: Arguably second only to Mimikyu in the race for "Most. Splashable. Pokémon." Intimidate + Electric immunity + access to several viable sets means this monster is hard to prepare for in team preview and can fill any number of roles when building a team. Bring this 'mon up to S.

DragonWhale: S

NOVED: dont feel like this is s worthy. its in a really similar spot to chomp last gen as the splashable ground type and i think its really good at that role but i dont think it performs as well as chomp did back when it was s rank. not saying it shouldnt be s because of that comparison but what im trying to say is i dont think lando performs at an s worthy level. super splashable yeah but easy to deal with and just feels good enough at what it does, not many mons do what it does so i think thats why its usage is so high, not necessarily because its super powerful.

Psynergy: This was my nom but I still think S rank Landorus-T is very justifiable in this meta. It's not as immediately overpowering as the other S ranks but the sheer amount of utility it can offer rivals that of Gen 6 Garchomp. Being a well-rounded Ground is always useful and Landorus-T is definitely the best of them.

Solerme: We can call Lando the new Chomp. It's versatile and has A LOT of sets, making it a good candidate for almost any role. This thing is no doubt an S imo

Theorymon: S

Volcarona: A+ -> A-
cant say: I agree with everything chem said except I think Volc should only drop to A instead of A-

chemcoop: Seems like SR have become a necessity on most viable USUM teams which obviously hurts Volcarona's usage. While it is still incredibly versatile, it seems like the meta has shifted away from Volcarona and towards other fire types like Zard Y on dual mega teams with Gyara and Meta, Blaziken, and Heatran (to check Naga). In summary, A- is fine due to rise in rocks + other fire types. I really didn't see this guy much during my high ladder run last season.

DragonWhale: agree with chem except volc and kart A, for similar reasons to his but they're better than most A-s

NOVED: yeah rocks are really good and it makes this hard to set up. easy a- rn .

Psynergy: My nom, I love Volcarona but it's just nowhere near as easy to fit on a team as the other A+ mons and Stealth Rock being as common as ever definitely doesn't help. Z-Move Volcarona is still absurdly dumb but it's got enough shortcomings bringing it down. I stand by dropping it all the way to A-.

Solerme: A- is too low for a mon that can kill almost everything with the right Z move. It has a superb movepoll, good stats and Quiver Dance. It could have easily been A+ if it wasn't for stealth rock getting so popular. It still is solid A imo

Theorymon: A

Mega Heracross: A- -> B
cant say: B

chemcoop: Cool on TR teams with Cress to Lunar Dance it back up, and an SD variant can just smash through stall. Outside of that...not much usage. Current Mimikyu/Zard/Blaze meta has not been kind to this big boi, and Mawile is definitely the superior TR mega. I think B is appropriate for it.

DragonWhale: B

NOVED: sure i guess. mega heras not too great. b is a little steep tho and i havent used or seen mega hera enough to say confidently its that bad. but the lack of usefulness of cresselia is probably reason enough to drop this.

Psynergy: I nommed this but really who actually uses this anymore? It's not a bad mon by any stretch but it feels like you need to go out of your way to make it work in current meta. Feels much more fitting in B.

Solerme: Needs support, a lot of, but can be decisive. The plethora of Fairies in the tier can punch him to death, but Heracross with proper speed control can definitely fire back. Sometimes though, even making the right choices, it feels like the turns of speed control aren't enough for it to close a game. B+

Theorymon: B+

Primarina: A -> A-
cant say: A-

chemcoop: Usage on this Pokémon has definitely fallen in the past season and has been replaced by CM Z/50% berry Fini. Status blocking against Yawn spam is valuable in the current metagame, so I think Primarina's drop is justified more by the rise in Fini as a bulky water than Primarina necessarily becoming worse. A-.

DragonWhale: A-

NOVED: yeah this isnt a worthy material anymore, especially with the rise of kartana and existence of naga

Psynergy: Also my nom, not much else to add but I'll reiterate that I don't think the niche of being a more offensive Fini is that good anymore. It still has all the same tools it had before but this isn't on par with Fini, drop to A- seems fair.

Solerme: Agreed. Prima has fallen a little bit from its A days. It hits hard, but the more the meta gets old the more people get used to strong attacks like Prima's Z, and we can safely say almost every team has an answer to Water-type attacks and a way to deal with Fairy-types. A-

Theorymon: A-

Kartana: B+ -> A-
cant say: A-, Kart could maybe go higher but not in this update.

chemcoop: Usually only see this thing on webs teams, which have become a bit more popular thanks to the availability of more setters in USUM. Z-Giga Impact or Z-Night Slash+SD can smash through popular Zard Y/Meta/Hippo cores and put a lot of offensive pressure on your opponent. A- is appropriate.

DragonWhale: agree with chem except volc and kart A, for similar reasons to his but they're better than most A-s

NOVED: i would actually put this in a. this has seen a rise in popularity recently and in my own experience testing it out i think its for good reason. it switches into mimi & gyara really well which is an awesome quality to have for an offensive mon, as a scarfer its really solid vs lele which is nice and now that it has knock it can punish steela switchins decently which is cool. i really like it on offense teams to clean things up with beast boost or hit them with an early onslaught. even tho grass/steel is kind of a shitty offensive type it provides it some nice defensive utility & its attack is nothing to mess with

Psynergy: My last nom, I just really like this mon and current meta changes are very nice for it. Kartana is virtually identical to what it was in SM but Salamence and Aegislash usage falling slightly and Stealth Rock being even more valuable just makes it easier for Kartana to stand out. Wouldn't put it above A- though.

Solerme: Not sure about this. It can definitely snowball with beast boost though, and it gets sword dance too. Should fit in A-.

Theorymon: lol Solerme pretty much took the words out of my mouth, except I'm actually pretty strongly in favor of the A- boost for Kartana instead of unsure for it, I think the changes in the USUM metagame have been pretty rad for it.

Changes:
Mega Gyarados moves from A to A+
Landorus-T moves from A+ to S
Volcarona moves from A+ to A
Mega Heracross moves from A- to B
Primarina moves from A to A-
Kartana moves from B+ to A-
 
#92
Proposal:

Greninja A to A+
  • The rise of Torrent builds adds to its roster of build options, making it even more effective on the team select screen than it already was before.
  • I know the viability rankings aren't supposed to just be a reflection of the usage rankings, but I think its high usage (fourth as of this writing) should be considered part of the case for A+.
  • Peers: if Pokemon with similar usage and team roles like Tapu Koko, Tapu Lele, and Naganadel are A+, Greninja should be too.
 
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#93
I'm not really good at explaining this but I think Mence should have stayed S. I will try to explain... It has both excellent bulk and outstanding offensive power; two properties that make it quite threatening. It is quite versatile; it does not need to set up to be threatening, but Dragon Dance is still scary, and it can run a special or mixed set, making it less predictable. It can be fully offensive or a specially defensive set, adamant or jolly or even careful; it can be a sweeper set with DD, or a set with toxic or/and substitute, and it even gets reliable recovery in Roost! While new threats like Naga may be good against it, and while teams may be a little overprepared for it in light of its high usage, it is still a pokemon that can turn the tide of battle easily and can be deadly in the late game or in a 1v1 situation. Also in my opinion the fact that Mence generally counters the only S-rank mega, Blaziken (with the exception of the rare hidden power ice variant, which doesn't even OHKO uninvested mega Mence coming from positive nature fully invested mega), is huge.
 
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#94
I'm not really good at explaining this but I think Mence should have stayed S. I will try to explain... It has both excellent bulk and outstanding offensive power; two properties that make it quite threatening. It is quite versatile; it does not need to set up to be threatening, but Dragon Dance is still scary, and it can run a special or mixed set, making it less predictable. It can be fully offensive or a specially defensive set, adamant or jolly or even careful; it can be a sweeper set with DD, or a set with toxic or/and substitute, and it even gets reliable recovery in Roost! While new threats like Naga may be good against it, and while teams may be a little overprepared for it in light of its high usage, it is still a pokemon that can turn the tide of battle easily and can be deadly in the late game or in a 1v1 situation. Also in my opinion the fact that Mence generally counters the only S-rank mega, Blaziken (with the exception of the rare hidden power ice variant, which doesn't even OHKO uninvested mega Mence coming from positive nature fully invested mega), is huge.
I mean, Mega Mence IS still s rank. They voted on whether or not it should drop and majority voted for it to stay.
 
#96
I find weird to not see Ditto on the VR despite him having not only their own BSS analysis, but also some real niches, like being able to check every single offensive A and S tier threat with the only exceptions being a fresh Mimikyu, and a reaonably healthy Scizor and Volcarona and it erases all the guesswork in dealing with Aegislash, Charizard and many others just by being there on the battlefield, and walling.

I freely admit that the Empoleon I run on my teams could be safely replaced by Mantine with only a greater Toxic weakness being an issue, and is there solely for attachment reasons. Dugtrio is a similar case, tough being able to consistently scare off rock pokemon in the team preview comes in handy when you go around with SuperSonicSkyStrike.
 
#97
I find weird to not see Ditto on the VR despite him having not only their own BSS analysis, but also some real niches, like being able to check every single offensive A and S tier threat with the only exceptions being a fresh Mimikyu, and a reaonably healthy Scizor and Volcarona and it erases all the guesswork in dealing with Aegislash, Charizard and many others just by being there on the battlefield, and walling.

I freely admit that the Empoleon I run on my teams could be safely replaced by Mantine with only a greater Toxic weakness being an issue, and is there solely for attachment reasons. Dugtrio is a similar case, tough being able to consistently scare off rock pokemon in the team preview comes in handy when you go around with SuperSonicSkyStrike.
-> C
I second that ditto should probably be on the VR thread probably on C rank because it does have a niche, and seems to be in a similar boat as Wobbuffet as far as the type of niche it has.

Just a note to SJMistery: Mantine is worse than Empoleon in BSS, as Mantine is not able to do much of anything in a meta as fast paced as BSS, and it is entirely outclassed by other water types because Mantine is a huge passive momentum sink. Granted Empoleon is usually a weak pick, but it does have a unique typing and a decent movepool to make it not absolute garbage.
Also if you're using Flynium-Z duggy +1 rep
 
#98
B+---->A-

Some of you may have already heard that I've been hyping this up recently and I've decided to make a VR post. Rotom-Wash is, from my experience, one of the better Choice Scarf users we have in BSS. This is due to the fact that Rotom-Wash possess not only a great Offensive typing for the meta but also a decent base SpA stat of 105. Choice Scarf Rotom-Wash makes for a fantastic lead as its able to Volt-Switch out immediately if the matchup is not favorable. Furthermore it can shut down Defensive and or Stall teams due to it having access to the move Trick. Choice Scarf Rotom-Wash is very underated in terms of speed control and I think this needs to change.

Here are some good replays of how Rotom-Wash preforms:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-698134213
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-708776878
 

cant say

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#99
B+---->A-

Some of you may have already heard that I've been hyping this up recently and I've decided to make a VR post. Rotom-Wash is, from my experience, one of the better Choice Scarf users we have in BSS. This is due to the fact that Rotom-Wash possess not only a great Offensive typing for the meta but also a decent base SpA stat of 105. Choice Scarf Rotom-Wash makes for a fantastic lead as its able to Volt-Switch out immediately if the matchup is not favorable. Furthermore it can shut down Defensive and or Stall teams due to it having access to the move Trick. Choice Scarf Rotom-Wash is very underated in terms of speed control and I think this needs to change.

Here are some good replays of how Rotom-Wash preforms:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-698134213
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7battlespotsingles-708776878
okay BP I have to get real with you here, this nomination is sadly terrible. I don't want to seem like i'm shitting on you in this post because you're an up-and-coming contributor who I like, but you've totally missed the mark here.

First of all, you're nominating a Pokemon that currently ranks 45th in usage for A-, now usage certainly =/= viability, but when you're nominating a mon on the fringe like that you're going to need some super convincing evidence to back up your claim. You main point revolves around the Scarf set, however Scarf is Rotom-W's 5th most used item (~11.5% usage) which means the set is far from the defining factor of the Pokemon itself. The reason I believe Scarf isn't used more is because Rotom-W's awkward speed tier leaves it slower than many more common Scarf users, as well as the omnipresent Mega Blaziken at +1, so it doesn't get to capitalise on its speed very often. With its typing and movepool, it's better to go with bulky offense with either Waterium Z or Specs, or just use a defensive build. Scarf is more of a niche / surprise set.

Your main source of evidence is two replays, and this is where I really wasn't impressed. The first game featured SubToxic Aegislash basically 3-0ing your opp with barely any support from Rotom-W at all. Tricking the Scarf onto Porygon2 didn't actually help Aegislash since Discharge wasn't breaking the Sub anyway. If anything, this just showed how good Aegislash is lol.

The second replay was against a guy using Infernape and was ranked around 1100 on PS, which is honestly a complete garbage section of the ladder.

Good examples of PS replays would be from BSSC/BSPL tour games, or 1450+ at least.

I'm glad you're having personal success with Scarf Washtom, but your justification for it being A- is super weak my man.
 

Jhon

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Basically the changes I'd make with some short comments. Mostly drops.
I feel like a bit of spring cleaning is needed to clear out stuff like Sylveon, which are just un-mons right now.
S Rank
Blaziken Mega -> A+; A+ is still very good, I just don't think Blaziken is really S material anymore. Haven't felt like it can dominate in the same way as Mence for a while, can't glue the same way as Mimi/Lando or other the same variability of any of them.

A Rank
A+

Blaziken -> A
Gyarados Mega -> A; I still think this a relatively underwhelming mon that offers little flexibility compared to similar DDers like CharX or, especially, Mence. Dissapointing speed tier and damage output.
A-
Cloyster -> B/B+; I feel like it's fallen off a fair bit this gen. Lots of popular mons are quite hostile towards it. Especially fast scarfers such as Kartana and Koko. P2, Fini and Pex aren't helping it either.

B Rank
B+

Dragonite -> B-; Speed tier lets it down and z-moves struggle to bring it back up. If you're investing in setup, you should be using Mence instead very often.
Gengar -> C/UR; non-mega is not relevant. I wish it was though.
Glalie -> B/B-; feels a little oversold. Generally requires a lot of support, often tech'd for (not even exclusively) with people slapping stuff like Curse Mimi, Perish Song Prima/Azu etc. Sadly, though truely thankfully, it's not even that consistent given support. Was Stronger in ORAS.
Latios -> B
Magnezone -> C/B-
Pheromosa -> B-
Porygon-Z -> B/B-
Rotom-W -> B
B
Kingdra -> B-; Psynergy has more experience with it so he probably has the better take. I've just found it a little underwhelming. As far as rain goes I've preffered Swampert far more recently.
Lapras -> C/UR; Hardly an impactful mon in the current meta. I imagine even Dewgong has more significant placings right now.
Lopunny Mega -> B+; As I continue to bop and hop to the top with Lop, I've found it to be a very effective mon against many current offense builds. Wonderful speed tier. It's only issues are the sometimes lacking damage and HJK's accuracy.
Quagsire -> C; Increasingly hard to find room for an Unaware mon on stall. Can still be good but at some cost during teambuilding.
Rhyperior -> C/UR; I wish it was good. I still occasionally try to build with it. Sadly it always comes up short. Either it's on TR, which is reasonably support heavy so probably wants a role compression option like Staka instead. Or it's on a balance like team and is generally trading pretty inefficiently.
Thundurus-I -> B-/C; niche, just struggles to hold the general viability of the other electrics.
B-
Altaria Mega -> C; as with basically everyother ->C, these mons are just niche at best. Difficult to justify use outside of these niche slots when mons like Mence exist (this example for Altaria in particular). Often better to change other aspects of your team to allow using the better mon than get stuck with them.
Buzzwole -> C; Another mon I wish was better. Heracross just finds itself being first choice in many places Buzzwole would be. And even that's not common.
Clefable -> C
Gardevoir Mega -> C/UR; ORAS relic.
Latias -> B+
Marowak-A -> C
Nidoking -> C
Pyukumuku -> C/UR; Super fringe. Quagsire is just better in most cases you want Unaware.
Talonflame -> UR; Viability fell faster than a Gale Wings Supersonic Skystrike.
Umbreon -> C
Whimsicott -> C/UR

C Rank - When's the last time any of these mons crossed your mind as a threat to a team you were building? When's the last time any of us used one of these? Gastro/Wobb I can accept for their fringe viability/uses, but neither are anything remotely exceptional.
Gastrodon -> UR(?)
Mandibuzz -> UR
Raikou -> UR
Sylveon -> UR
Wobbuffet -> UR(?)

New Mons
Sableye Mega -> C/B-
Aerodactyl Mega -> C
Both good stall megas.
Aero fills in a niche where it's able to outspeed and ohko Gengar and possibly Pursuit trap it, while also being able to threaten ohkoes on Charizard and Thundurus-T.
Sableye, though commonly seen on Shedinja stall, is also good on regular and semi-stall builds. Depending on the way it's built it can be effective against Gengar as well as other common problem mons like Breloom and Mamoswine. Keeping a SR clean field is also a big deal.
 

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