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hot take to stoke the flames...

:bw/abomasnow: > :bw/ninetales:

Uneducated and stupid? Maybe, but in my head it doesnt seem that outrageous, and here's why:

1. Comparing the weaknesses side by side it seems like they have similar levels of icky. By that I mean both are rock(s) weak, bad vs Sand (although I'll get to that in a second), and overwhelmed easily.
2. Next is what their weather's actually bring to the table. Snow means you have blizzard and uncontested chip. Sun let's you run Cress and weakens water and boosts fire. Obviously sun is a more useful weather than hail. What I think makes Snow slightly more useful is the defensive typing and compression.

Water resist+not weak to grass or ice is pretty neat, as well as ice shard giving it the ability to check dragons in a pinch, something ninetales cant do. I think snow could be slotted on weatherless as a way to slow down rain as well as providing defense-offense utility with its decent bulk and difficult to resist stabs: Heatran and Ferro are the two resists that come to mind and both can be dispatched with either coverage or team support.

Also I mentioned the bad into sand. It is, type wise at least, but versus the common 3 psychics + filler, It has grass coverage for Ttar/Rotom (woodhammer), STAB ice for grounds, can easily slot in hp fire to repel ferro. It'd be stupid to say Snow has ez pickings on a Sand team, but I'm also saying that it's not easy to switch into without something like Balloon Tran or Scizor.

As for rain, only ferro can switch in safely, seeing that tenta wouldn't enjoy a hit with rocks and no dish. Snow insures some safety vs Latios, Thundy, Dnite and smacks Politoed/Keld around on the switch too.

TLDR; Snow has a lot of anti meta traits that are neat, as opposed to Tales being the mandatory Drought mon for a playstyle that's been dead for ~5 years. I'd love to hear some other people's opinions on this.

EDIT: I wrote this before I checked the newest VR where Snow is over Tales. Oops
 
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Not sure how revolutionary this is, but I've been running this hyper-offense team to great success:

Tyranitar @ Chople Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Atk / 192 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Thunder Wave
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Fire Blast

Latios @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Dragon Pulse
- Surf
- Trick

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Signal Beam

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Aqua Jet

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Protect
- U-turn

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 8 Def / 248 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball
- Stealth Rock

It's almost like rain, in the sense that your defensive pokes are 'just good enough' to allow your offensive threats to come in. Chople tar + ferro allow you to decently check Tios and zam, both which can otherwise be annoying for non-specs keldeo. Speaking of keld, lefties + aqua jet generally allow you to KO or dent something, then break zam's sash if it comes in to revenge. This lets ttar pursuit with much more assurance.

I'm also running gyro + whip on Ferro, bc you threaten both keldeo and Tios with heavy damage, as opposed to simply sitting there.

While it looks a lot like magic guard spam, I really like keldeo for the advantageous situation it can give you against rain and other hyper-offense styles.
 
So I was supporting Monai and the BIGs this SPL, who are now unfortunately knocked out. Monai may do a post on his teams from the tournament but I wanted to draw attention to a couple of mons I've been building with these last few weeks that I think are underrated

:excadrill:Excadrill @ Leftovers
Swords Dance / Rapid Spin / Earthquake / Iron Head
Substitute / Rapid Spin / Earthquake / Iron Head

Though Spin + dual STAB are hard to drop on Sand Force Excadrill, the final slot is showing more flexibility this year than the auto-Protect we've seen in years prior. Swords Dance Excadrill, particularly with Thunder Wave support, is an excellent option even on bulkier, support-oriented sets - I think Shoka is mostly responsible for bringing this back into modern BW by spamming it on his triple ground teams. Substitute is a good option also - in the past its mostly been seen alongside Protect but Substitute + Spin is a really cool set that lets you break past Jellicent with zero prediction. Unsure if this optimally uses 404 HP yet, I think you can make an argument either way. I think watashi may have used this set earlier in the tournament also.

:thundurus-therian:Thundurus-T@Leftovers
U-turn / Thunder / Hidden Power Ice / Focus Blast

Borderline broken mon using its most consistent set. Agility and Nasty Plot may be the outright game winners but Uturn and Sub Thundurus-T are like impossible to mess up even if you're having a zero skill day. Monai showed off the appeal of U-turn in week 1, not only crippling the thund counter Latios, but also getting to click a free move with his incoming CB Mamoswine. It also ruins Celebi and with Spike support, puts Gastro Sand teams in a really horrible position over the course of a game. Obviously we didnt invent this set but U-turn is just such an insane consistency booster for Thundurus-T esp when paired with other breakers that I had to draw attention to it again here



:bronzong:Bronzong @ Macho Brace
Trick Room / Gyro Ball / Earthquake / x
Other options: Zen Headbutt, Explosion, Skill Swap

I think DPP OTR Bronzong has some potential in this metagame. We all recognise the amazing defensive traits of Bronzong (in one slot, beats Excadrill, Mamoswine, Cloyster, Latios, Dragonite, Gliscor, Alakazam) but its support sets are incredibly passive and easy to take advantage of, as such it doesn't fit on much. Offensive teams can also benefit from the defensive qualities that Bronzong can bring, however, and with Magnezone support, OTR Bronzong is a decent late-game cleaner that not only holds off some of the tier's scariest threats, but sets up and wins off them.

I've been messing around with Sr Garchomp / Scarf Magnezone / CB Tyranitar / Starmie or Cloyster / DDnite / OTR Bronzong, its not perfect but it has shown me that OTR Bronzong has a really cool MU spread for Magnezone offenses and is worth exploring

:donphan:Donphan @ Leftovers
Rapid Spin / Earthquake / x / x
Other options: Stealth Rock, Knock Off, Protect, Ice Shard, Counter, Toxic, Roar, Sandstorm

Bit of a classic noob Pokemon, but it should see some usage imo.

Excadrill is the boss of ground-type spinners in the tier but its not optimal on absolutely everything - in particular, being Ground/Fighting weak itself means it matches up poorly into the common HO leads - Garchomp/Terrakion. This means that it can be hard to get the spin off vs those teams, but just as importantly, makes Excadrill a pretty bad Stealth Rocker for sand teams and really closing off potential teambuilding routes. Excadrill + Ferrothorn teams, in particular, stand out as builds that have the "which of my own mons do I nerf by running SR" issue.

If you have other Steels, then looking at Donphan over the more standard Drill is a passable solution to the problem, getting a leadchomp/leadterrak-beating Stealth Rocker onto the team, whilst retaining a handful of Excadrill's important traits - Rapid Spin, STAB EQ, sand immunity. Depending on moveslot/spread choices, Donphan can feel like blending Excadrill with elements of Landorus-T, Hippowdon, or Mamoswine. Adamant with Stealth Rock / Earthquake / Rapid Spin / Ice Shard is 100% a newbie set (which I myself believed was terrible) but is actually quite elegant role compression, playing like a weaker Mamoswine in the way that it forever denies Dragonite / Sash Zam / Scarf Latios from being truly problematic endgame mons. Protect + Knock Off with more bulk is also an interesting route.

tl;dr sometimes 1200 elo ladder sets are actually not that terrible, Donphan sand has tested incredibly well for me
 
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:Tyranitar: Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 36 HP / 48 Atk / 172 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Superpower

Fairygen-inspired fat ScarfTar is a decent half-check into Volcarona for some fat sand teams. Paired with TWave mons like Colbur Lati@s, Ferrothorn, Alakazam, Magnezone, Clefable, Blissey and so on, you can put together builds that deny any Life Orb / Insect Plate Volc from setting up, whilst this Tyranitar will always be able to RKill Lum Volcarona

+1 252 SpA Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 36 HP / 172 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 258-306 (73.7 - 87.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Found this to be a decent way to navigate the HO MU for some of my Clefable teams in particular (see below), with TWave Clefable only losing to Lum Volcarona which is patched up by fat ScarfTar. I've also used this a bit on dice's Clefable/Slowbro + Smackdown Lando team which also has the same kind of Lum Volc problems and its been super solid. I can imagine it slots well on a handful of other teams that e.g. rely too hard on Alakazam for Volcarona

:tyranitar::skarmory::excadrill::clefable::latias::reuniclus:

More broadly, Rock Slide on just about any Tyranitar feels particularly good in post-gem metagame. I still think Crunch / Pursuit / Super or EQ are near mandatory for most sets but Rock Slide might be the most functional 4th
 
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Crenando24 said:
Hey everyone, I'm still crossfaded but I just thought of a really cool Garchomp idea;

:bw/Garchomp: @ Soft Sand / Earth Plate
EVs: 252 atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
-Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Outrage
-Dual Chop / Dragon Claw / Fire Fang

Maybe this isnt a new discovery but while I was toying around with the damage calculator drunkenly I accidentally clicked Soft Sand on Chomp's item and noticed that Soft Sand makes Earthquake as strong as Outrage, Which in my opinion is absolutely huge considering that many teams play around chomp by locking it into Outrage and RK'ing with a faster scarf or Mamo etc. Now you can deal that power without locking into a move. The damage really does speak for itself;

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Shuca Berry Jirachi: 313-370 (77.4 - 91.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 40 Def Shuca Berry Jirachi: 376-444 (93 - 109.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Hippowdon: 280-331 (66.6 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Hippowdon: 337-397 (80.2 - 94.5%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 249-294 (70.7 - 83.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 48 Def Ferrothorn: 298-352 (84.6 - 100%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 325-384 (83.1 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+2 252 Atk Soft Sand Garchomp Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kyurem-Black: 390-460 (99.7 - 117.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

Additionally, I believe that this set could partner well with some cheese strategies like Smack Down Lando-T to make gliscor and Skarmory grounded, or perhaps even Gravity Landorus to really make those levitate bastards rue the day. Of course this set is giving up a lot of safety without Lum/Yache/Salac berry, but I think that being able to make one of your STAB moves as strong but more safe than Outrage sounds like a damn good steal.
Click to expand...
Y not Life Orb then?
 
hoyesdomingo said:
Less recoil, spikes damage are already an issue for chomp.

Plus taking 22.5% (LO + barbs) for thudding into ferro can suck.
Click to expand...
exactly. plus I see zero point to run LO without special attacks. Take it all with a grain of salt because I made that post baked as all hell haha.
 
K this post is just to appreciate how CC Reuniclus solos rain teams, this has been my second to last poke thrice and has soloed 4 pokes left on the opposite team all three times. Goat.
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Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Guard
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Calm Mind
- Recover
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
 
I have been trying to make a trapping Politoed for Sand teams recently to remove major water type threats such as choice locked Keldeo and for psyspam sand teams it can take care of tyranitar too.

Politoed @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 180 SpA / 76 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Hydro Pump
- Whirlpool
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Ice beam

These are some calcs
180+ SpA Politoed Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 172 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 180-212 (44.6 - 52.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
180+ SpA Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 288-340 (67.6 - 79.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
180+ SpA Politoed Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 134-158 (41.4 - 48.9%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Though it cannot beat specs keldeo locked into secret sword it can still switch into it using hydro pump and trap it or the next poke with whirlpool.

Both Gastrodon and Vaporeon also hold this same niche however and are superior.

Another thing is you can whirlpool on colbur latios on rain and use whirlpool if you think they will switch into tyranitar and take care of it considering that Latios can live a pursuit while switching out with colbur. This means it can then switch into Keldeo or a faster threat which can Ohko
 
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:terrakion: The Cavern Menace: A Terrakion Retrospective :terrakion:
​
Hmph, this was a post I wanted to make in December last year but every time I tried to do this I found that I would have to deal with other things simultaneously that it makes doing stuff like this near-impossible. This post might as well be outdated information but since I really don't have anything better to do (and since I have technically moved on from this metagame to greener pastures) I decided that, fuck it, I may as well write this and come back in like... a year or something? Nobody really gives a shit about what I have to say about anything so I may as well post this and be off.

I was originally planning this as a response to an earlier post, but when I thought about it further, I realized just how radically changed Terrakion's role in the metagame has really been. I witnessed people go from trying to get mileage out of SD Rock Gem Terrakion on Sand Teams, to claiming that Rak has been suffering immensely in the metagame, to finally having a mini-renaissance after the Gem ban. Therefore, I thought it would be best to bring myself to write a post that details how the metagame's evolution shaped Terrakion into what it is now. I obviously won't be covering the BW metagame from the very beginning as I haven't been around long enough to write about it, but rather I am writing from the perspective of someone who started taking it seriously from 2020-22.

:Breloom: The Sleep Ban and PHeal Loom Sand Era :Breloom:

It was the late 2019s after Sleep was banned. Breloom and Amoonguss were obviously hit by this, but the former still managed to stay not only relevant but perhaps even more threatening than before with its PHeal Sets giving it tons of longevity. Since Amoonguss' viability fell off a cliff after the Sleep ban, Breloom was even more threatening than ever. People were getting tons of use of PHeal Loom on Sand Teams alongside Slowking, who provided a great defensive buffer against Heatran and Keldeo.

These were teams that, while good at the time, also had a rather dicey matchup against Terrakion. Loom often dropped Mach Punch when running PHeal Loom, and Substitute was a rather niche choice. Here, I will theorymon a Breloom Sand team and Rak's MU against it (I will be using Rock Gem Rak since that was one of the sets that was getting popular at the time):

:tyranitar::landorus-therian::excadrill::latios::breloom::slowking: (There might be some variations of this team, but bear with me)

Rak has free entry into Tyranitar and can swap into Excadrill, Breloom and Slowking with careful precision. A common tactic would be to switch Landorus in to pacify it, but with a free SD, Rak OHKOs Landorus even after an intimidate with Rock Gem. With Lando gone, this team loses its defensive buffer against stuff like Garchomp and Mamoswine. Needless to say, Terrakion was really enjoying the slower sand-oriented metagame at the time. It also helped that people were slowly shifting from using Slowbro to Slowking for more insurance against Keldeo.

:Celebi: Celebi Sand Balance Era :Celebi:

With players trying to scramble for ways to deal with Breloom as well as Keldeo Rain, people turned to a Pokemon that was left in the backwater for a while: Celebi. Celebi had been neglected for a long time back when Sleep wasn't banned, but with the Sleep ban, Loom's dominance and Offensive Rain Teams with Keldeo and Tentacruel being everywhere, people began turning to Celebi as a Stealth Rocker that dominated Tentacruel. It was able to stave off Status with Natural Cure, something that Amoonguss couldn't do, and sat on Keldeo and Breloom forever. Celebi shifted the metagame, becoming more Sand Balance oriented as PHeal Loom itself began taking a hit in viability.

So what did this mean for Terrakion? Well, Rak itself didn't really change all that much as a Pokemon, but it really enjoyed the increased use of Gliscor over Landorus-T as a more passive Rak check. The rise of Zone and Scarf Tyranitar also gave Rak even more pressure on those teams. The best bet Celebi Balance had against to use Physically Defensive Gastrodon, but even that could be exploited with smart play. Rak's Special Defense boost meant that it only gets 3HKOed by Gastrodon's Scald (though burns will be extremely annoying to deal with) and only barely 2HKOed by Celebi's Psychic. Overall, Rak was still better than ever despite its underrated status in BW OU.

:Volcarona: Gems Era and Rak's Decline :Dragonite:

With the rise of Celebi Sand Balance also came the rise of another Pokemon that had also been neglected during the aftermath of the Spore Ban: Volcarona. Volcarona in the 2020s was seen as an inconsistent gimmick that either dominates MUs or ends up being dead weight. The rise of Celebi Sand Balance changed those prospects completely. Volcarona just shreds those teams without any second thought as Celebi basically becomes a sitting duck against it. The resurgence of Volcarona and the HO teams that were built around them also paved the way for another discovery of the metagame: Gems. We were seeing stuff like Bug Gem Volcarona, which OHKOed Tyranitar from full health. From that moment onwards, numerous other Pokemon such as Breloom and Cloyster were making full use of Gems to nuclear effect.

Ironically enough, it was with the explosive fast-paced energy that people really began to see just how flawed Terrakion really was. While Terrakion theoretically enjoyed solid MUs against Volcarona and Dragonite, it struggled immensely with the massive amount of priority that was being spammed in the tier. Breloom was running Mach Punch more often as the Technician set had been vastly overshadowing the PHeal set at this point, and Scizor was now seeing far more usage than before. It also didn't help that the slow Sand Balance teams that once dominated the metagame had been phased out, in their place were fast-paced Alakazam Spikes Teams that stifled any attempt for Terrakion to even make a splash on the team. Even Rain turned out to be a really inconsistent matchup as it was far more reliant on having to nail consecutive Stone Edges than before. It wasn't necessarily that Terrakion was BAD by any means, it was just that players realized just how underutilized the firepower this metagame really had, to the point where Rak's ability to steamroll teams wasn't as impressive as it once was.

That was until Gems were finally banned in an attempt to clamp down on the rampancy of HO in the tier.

:Terrakion: The Gems Ban and Rak's Current State :Terrakion:

With Gems finally gone, the Sand Balance teams that had been shunned had now slowly come back and Rak was finally able to enjoy the dominance in power it once had. In fact, people finally began to remember just how dangerous CB Rak really was. It also help that stuff like Magnezone and Mamoswine were seeing use in Sand teams again, which Rak enjoyed good MUs on. Overall, Rak has always been a curious mon to me. While Rak had always been the same threatening mon it had always been, it was a real trip to see how it's viability greatly differing as the metagame was sorting itself out.
 
Post-Gems, SD doesn't really have a good item anymore. Balloon Sub is cool, but one of the annoying aspects of it is that your set is revealed the moment you swap in more or less. As a result, CB is probably the most common nowadays.

The saddest aspect of Terrak has always been Stone Edge being a terrible move, but generally, CB is probably the best way to mitigate this. You want to click Close Combat to your heart's content anyway, so you might as well use an item that's perfect for that. The problem is that CB Rak has a lot of trouble breaking through Gliscor Lando Reuniclus Slowbro. It takes some active mismanaging from your opponent to break through, or you have to make pretty blind predictions to try to use Stone Edge/X-Scissor on the switch. It's possible to make this a slightly educated guess in drawn-out games, but that's the most optimistic outlook on it really.

Against Lando, it's sometimes possible to force a more drawn-out game where they can't win with their resources before Terrak CCs Lando to death, but it depends on the partners ultimately (both Lando's and Terrak's). If you see a Slowbro on preview, though, you're practically playing 5v6.

Gliscor and Reuniclus are also very hard to wear down just like Slowbro, but running SD Drill alongside Terrak can help with that quite a bit (helps vs Slowbro too but less so). Furthermore, Gliscor's been a bit out of favor relative to Lando recently anyway. Because of these passive-ish but very bulky fight-resistant pokemon, I'd probably never run CB Rak without SD Drill personally.


CB Rak is absolutely ridiculous in MUs where it never has to click Stone Edge, though. Most Rains and weatherless offenses would qualify for this. I run Rock Slide a lot just because there are times when you want to drop a full health thund or volc, but most of the time, you're just clicking Close Combat.

SubPass Celebi + CB Rak in particular is brutal for KeldThund Rains to face. Their bulkiest fight resist tends to be Tenta, which needs a lot of investment to avoid getting 2HKO'd by CC. This means that any time you get Terrak in on Ferro or Thund in CC range, you get a kill or force in their latios, and entries for it are very easy thanks to Celebi. Realistically, Rain's only hope here is for their Keld/Thund sets to be able to blast past Celebi. Otherwise, it's pretty much a loss from preview.


CB Rak is also a huge boon vs weatherless teams with Garchomp leads. CC does 85+ to Chomp so after U-turn from Lando, Chomp's in range. This minimizes how much Chomp can force damage on your team in annoying ways before going down, and they can't capitalize on Terrak being in particularly well unlike if that was a Latios killing their chomp as Terrak is not Pursuit-weak. They're not going to have a particularly sturdy fight resist, either, so chances are that something (likely chomp) dies. Naturally, one needs to pack a way to respond to a Loom/Sciz revenge, but most Terrak builds worth their weight are going to do that. The most obvious Terrak team (at least in my head) is the celebi rotom terrak build. Terrak's 4 non-ttar partners (celebi rotom lando drill) are more than enough to sponge against Loom/Sciz while Terrak answers Volc. Being able to divide and conquer these sorts of teams while also forcing the issue early on makes Volc teams another very strong MU for Terrak (as one would hope).

CB Rak is also very strong against DragMag teams considering its power and speed tier combined with the general lack of sturdy fight resists on those teams. As long as you can beat Scizor (which you probably can), you're fine.


This was a giant wall of text I just spat out, but the feeling I get with Terrak is that it's very coin-flippy in its MU spreads. It's either ridiculous or worthless from preview every game. While it's pretty pathetic how much of an uphill battle those bad MUs can be, Terrak sometimes reduces games to literal flow charts in its good MUs because all your opponent's possible responses to it just delay the inevitable.
 
:bw/slowbro:
Slowbro: Champion of the People
​
Time for a LONG post on why Slowbro is a champ and should be used whenever possible.

Between its typing, bulk, and ability, Slowbro is extremely robust against several common, dangerous Pokemon in the tier while also being a decent half-measure against even more.

Its typing offers key resistances to the following types: Water, Fighting, Ice, Psychic, Fire, and Steel. It is also not weak to Rock, Ground, or Dragon, letting it check a lot of physical attackers in the tier even if it can't wall them forever.

Its match-up against the ice types is the easiest niche to carve for it, but naturally, Slowbro needs some specific support in the builder to truly shine.

It's grounded, so it's therefore spikes-weak. This means it mandates Drill support, but this is hardly a flaw worth criticizing.

It strongly dislikes status: if it gets burned or poisoned, it can eventually get overwhelmed by the opponent having multiple Pokemon Slowbro's trying to check. A status absorber like Celebi or Poison Heal Breloom could be a good partner as a result. That being said, something like Mamo is hard-pressed to break through bro by itself even if it takes a burn, so it ultimately depends on what Slowbro's needed for in a given game.


Pokemon Slowbro Blanks:

The Ice resistance ends up being the reason Slowbro is arguably the hardest counter to Mamoswine in the game: the hardest hit Mamoswine could possibly muster on it would be CB EQ, which Slowbro easily pivots into:

252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 181-214 (46 - 54.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Thanks to Regenerator, Slowbro can heal off some of the damage and swap into a ground immune now that they've revealed CB. Considering this was the damage Mamo did while banded, forget about getting Mamo to ever break a healthy Slowbro.

Furthermore, Slowbro also hard-counters Cloyster.

+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 220-260 (55.9 - 66.1%) -- approx. 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This is with Life Orb, and Slowbro could easily take it even if Cloy crits 1-2 of the hits.


Slowbro, of course, is also excellent against several Pokemon that aren't Mamo/Cloy.

It's a Fighting resist with massive physical bulk and Regenerator, making it arguably the hardest counter in the game to Terrakion as well.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 176-208 (44.7 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 165-195 (41.9 - 49.6%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 99-117 (25.1 - 29.7%) -- 1.1% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Just like with CB Mamo, if Terrak locks Stone Edge/X-Scissor, that's easy to pivot out of while healing off some of the damage with Regen.

For reference, it takes less damage than even the standard fast Landorus-T while also being harder to wear down if spikes are kept off the field (Spikes + Terrak is on the rarer side as well).

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 240 HP / 16 Def Landorus-Therian: 175-207 (46.1 - 54.6%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



Pokemon Slowbro Checks:

Slowbro forever walls the Ices and Terrak, but it's a blanket check to most physical attackers, e.g. the physical dragons beyond Kyurem-Black.

+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 222-262 (56.4 - 66.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Dragonite Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 297-351 (75.5 - 89.3%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 264-312 (67.1 - 79.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252+ Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 289-342 (73.5 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock


0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 316-372 (88.5 - 104.2%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

0 SpA Slowbro Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 272-324 (84.2 - 100.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

This is one reason I really like Rocky Helmet on Slowbro: if they smack you with their boosted Outrage, you can KO them in return if they don't have Yache berries. If Slowbro's facing down a Scarf Chomp instead of SD or a Scarf Mence, they can forget about ever breaking it.


Slowbro's also great against Grounds.

0 Atk Landorus-Therian Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 102-120 (25.9 - 30.5%) -- 9.7% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock

If Slowbro has Rocky Helmet, it can punish Lando for electing to use U-turn, and it can still escape from ttar if need be as long as it swaps into the U-turn still healthy:

88+ Atk Tyranitar switching boosted Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro: 176-210 (44.7 - 53.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage


252+ Atk Sand Force Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Slowbro in Sand: 162-192 (41.2 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage

This is the strongest possible drill, and it barely 2HKOs slowbro in Sand with SR up. The fact that it will munch Iron Head means that Slowbro can start some mind-games with Drill in terms of whether it wants to use Iron Head to catch Lando (or another ground immune) or to EQ to catch Slowbro. This is especially helpful when using a more offensive Lando that doesn't take hits from drill as easily.


Pokemon Slowbro is like a quarter-to-half-measure to:

While Slowbro is not robust against special attacks with the max/max Bold spread I've been citing for calcs, its typing lets it serve as a half-measure against Keldeo and potentially Alakazam.

252 SpA Keldeo Surf vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowbro in Rain: 138-162 (35.1 - 41.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock

Slowbro can comfortably switch into an unrevealed Keldeo. If they reveal Specs or Ebelt Hidden Power Grass/Ghost/Bug, then Slowbro's can't really answer it with this spread, but it can help against Scarf and other sets that lack Toxic or HP Grass/Ghost/Bug (which I think are bad but that's neither here nor there). With a Psychic move, Slowbro can even answer Sub Keldeo (and Psychic has the benefit of breaking Subs on mons like Tentacruel and Gyarados in addition to whacking various Fighting types, including more niche ones like Conkeldurr or Toxicroak, and OHKOing Cloyster).


If running Thunder Wave, Slowbro can even attempt to cripple Alakazam.

252 SpA Alakazam Grass Knot (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Slowbro: 214-254 (54.4 - 64.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This is the strongest hit Zam can muster, and Slowbro easily takes it if spikes are kept off the field. Furthermore, Psy/Ice/Focus + Twave/Encore is totally a thing, so Zam carrying a move for bro isn't a given necessarily, even if it's the most common scenario.



Benefits of Incorporating Slowbro and Possible Teambuilding Routes:

As alluded to earlier, Slowbro can enable more offensive lando sets thanks to its ability to take on opposing Grounds and Terrak. It's even a good partner for Gravity Lando since it can soak up opposing EQs pretty easily. It also opens the possibility of forgoing Lando and using Garchomp on Sand, with the remaining four being picked accordingly naturally.

One of the team structures I've thought Slowbro shines is a 5-mon start with a fairly flexible 6th slot: Chople tar/ScarfChomp/Specs Latios/Slowbro/SD Spin Drill. The 6th slot wants to address some of the following: Tech Loom, Sciz, Spikers, Rotom. My favorite 6th is probably Zapdos, but Thundurus works similarly and is better against rotom/gastro/ttar/opposing thund in exchange for worse bulk and no roost. Latias is also a possibility (probably mandates Flamethrower on Slowbro to scare Ferro/beat Sciz in a pinch). Pheal Loom or Hydreigon can work too, but those are pretty greedy options that make you a lot weaker to Skarm and Tech Loom, respectively, but they have their upsides nonetheless.


There's other options too, but the slight annoyance with Slowbro is that it's going to be mutually exclusive with Rotom, and it's also not good enough against Keld stand-alone generally (Celebi/Latios is a likely pairing as a result). It's a good idea to view how to pick one's water resists from the lens of beating Starmie and Keldeo, and unlike Rotom, Slowbro is not very good against Starmie, so Slowbro teams will occasionally feel a little soft against Starmie. It's definitely not to an unmanageable extent, though. Furthermore, not having Rotom also means losing out on Volt Switch and its obvious benefits, but considering Slowbro's many positive traits, this is hardly to say that Slowbro is hard to justify.
 
Silexius said:
Bring back Rain, bulky sand teams have been gaining too much influence recently. I'm calling all politoad users to band together and make a counter rain team to the average bulky sand team.
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Rain is quite good right now and it is silly to claim otherwise! In BW Cup, the stats say Politoed has achieved a respectable 52.5% win rate over 242 games.

It can be quite difficult to build a rain team that fully counter teams any sand bulky team. That style has a lot of tools available and has a natural advantage over rain. But some strong tools for rain against bulkier sands can be: keldeo (any except scarf), np or uturn thundt, mamoswine band or nmi, toxic tentacruel, balloon analytic starmie, knock off on things, trick on things, taunt on things, healing wish, sub kyurem black, scizor with pursuit, magnezone, many jirachi sets, tornadus, gyarados, etc.
 
Rewer said:
Rain is quite good right now and it is silly to claim otherwise! In BW Cup, the stats say Politoed has achieved a respectable 52.5% win rate over 242 games.

It can be quite difficult to build a rain team that fully counter teams any sand bulky team. That style has a lot of tools available and has a natural advantage over rain. But some strong tools for rain against bulkier sands can be: keldeo (any except scarf), np or uturn thundt, mamoswine band or nmi, toxic tentacruel, balloon analytic starmie, knock off on things, trick on things, taunt on things, healing wish, sub kyurem black, scizor with pursuit, magnezone, many jirachi sets, tornadus, gyarados, etc.
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Thats fair and it is decent right now but in the bw cup I only saw one rain team out of the semifinals and finals and tyranitar has been reigning up top on the viability rankings for far too long. I shall bring him down. I'll send u my progress after trying to make a team.
 
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