If you are actually sorry why are you vagueposting, you created fake logs of me and my friends to try and get us banned. If you are actually sorry admit to what you did and face the consequences.
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If you are actually sorry why are you vagueposting, you created fake logs of me and my friends to try and get us banned. If you are actually sorry admit to what you did and face the consequences.
Brine, I’m literally admiting it. I did all that, and as I said before all of what I did those years ago don’t represent me. I got banned for year and a half, lost 90% of my friends on this site and my best friend is no longer here. what other consequences do i need to have, I’m sorry for everything i did, there’s no excuse or anything for what i did, I’m sorry, I’m just trying to start again after all the huge mistakes i did.
Also I don’t know what vague posting means, but I’m sorry if my apologies was too short or not very well written or not very good idk
Also I don’t know what vague posting means, but I’m sorry if my apologies was too short or not very well written or not very good idk
My issue was that you didnt actually mention what you did in your original post, but you replying in an affirming manner to what i said is enough for me.
I also didnt know all that shit that happened, that sucks. In the end this is just a game and your interpersonal life being affected by it is something i never wanted. I only knew about the tourban and thought you got off too easy at the time.
Regardless, i accept your apology and hope your new beginning start well for you.
Idk how the others affected feel because you only mentioned me, but as far as im concerned we are good now
is there a guy version? asking for a friend
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In a coffee shop waiting for my car to get fixed so just a general thought-dump on sun:
Not gonna go too in-depth on specific teams but me and others have been running slightly less stall-y sun teams over the last 1-2 weeks and have actually been pleasantly surprised by the results. Nothing drastically metagame changing, and sun does always need to fish something pretty hard, but theres probably a bit more room for experimentation here than we make out.
Since Chlorophyll and Dugtrio got banned, almost all the sun representation in BW OU has been full stall, lots of them built by bluri and run by guys like feaniix and jaajgko. Stuff like:
The tl;dr is that Chansey with weather clear and Cresselia with buffed Moonlight is a kinda busted defensive core, paired with a generally water-weak wincon that is hard to kill in sun (Bold QD Volcarona, SDef SD Gliscor). Bluri is a stall genius and these are likely as good as it gets for full stall with Sun, but they have weaknesses just inherent to the approach:
- Zero speed control - with 311 Ninetales the fastest Pokemon on the team, you are always playing reactively vs Keldeo, Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Thundurus-T, Latios, DDnite. That is sometimes gonna lead to situations where you get crit once and lose, or Cresselia gets overloaded trying to do one too many jobs, or you get put out of position by doubling. This is part of the reason why Sand stalls run ScarfTar or Latios, Hail stall runs Latios, Rain stalls used to run Scarf Politoed etc. Being able to rkill one of those breakers in a situation where you've let a wall get chipped just to release some pressure makes stall more consistent, but Sun is rly tight for spots.
- No water resist - Yes, you have sun and Ninetales in theory comes in on Politoed easily. Chansey in Sun is effectively the best Water resist in the game. Unfortunately, Ninetales absolutely sucks and is abusable af and you are riding the weather war knife edge constantly, especially vs rockers with good Donphan/Forret MUs. Losing the weather war cos Ninetales took a crit Scald, or the Politoed is Specs Hydro, or Donphan got Knocked Off and then you can't beat Keldeo is really sad
- Limited pressure on Tyranitar - most people that I've spoken to think that Sand is the hardest MU for a lot of Suns to play, especially with something like pivot LandoT or Rotom-W, or Tyranitar + breaker that Cress normally answers (something like Terrak/Keldeo). Unfortunatley, collectively thats a lot of Sand teams. To me, the root cause of this is limited pressure on Tyranitar. If Tyranitar can come in off a pivot, it can be really hard for Sun to get chip on it and outlast it. If you can force in Cresselia lots then thats also easy Tyranitar entry for not much chip. Sure, if Tyranitar needs to come in on Ninetales, Sunny Trapper Heatran, Volc, Chansey directly then you can chip it quickly, but thats going to be really dependent on Tyranitar partners.
Balance:
+ spikesThe starting point for this entire discussion / the last week of building has using Sun Cresselia closer to how we play Reuniclus on Sand/Hail i.e. pair it with an offensive second Psychic and Spikes to aggressively puts damage on Tyranitar. If Tyranitar gets to below 50% in the opening 10 turns of the game then thats going to really accelerate how much you can use Cresselia in the game and, well, Cresselia in Sun is broken, so your consistency into all the stupid breakers improves. Latios rkilling Garchomp means Cresselia is less likely to get overloaded vs HO, for example. Latios also lets you go on the offensive vs Rain, gives you a Keldeo/Chomp/Terrak/KyuB revenge killer, and a water resist so you don't fold if you need to play in Rain for more than 2 turns at a time. All this just reduces the pressure on Ninetales and Cresselia to make them do their jobs more consistently. We're still working out the sets on this exactly but if you've been on ladder this week you'll probably have played a 1700+ account finding decent consistency with this core. The ceiling for these might be a 7/10 team but thats still interesting and maybe something you'd bring to a tour game every now and then
Offense:
This one is more theoretical. We have already seen Sunny Day Heatran to weather clear for Conkeldurr / Dragonite on Sun, but its possible we can go more direct and just use Ninetales. That improves the Starmie MU quite a lot (immedite sun on entry making it easier to come in on), combined with Tyranitar switch-ins being the free-est Conkeldurr Bulk Up of all time. Conk's worst MU is generally considered to be Rain, and Ninetales coming in on Politoed at least short term goes some way to improve it. Dragons with Fire coverage synergise with Sun by getting better damage on Skarm / Rain Ferro . There may be nothing here at all, and I'm unsure whether this wants something like Victini or Darmanitan for more direct Sun abuse or if optimally you just use the normal HO core with the Sun "abuse" being more nuanced (Fire Punch buff, Sand removal, Rain removal)
tl;dr if you want some building ideas then try a Sun that isn't full stall, there might be an ok team in there
p.s. my car is fucked fml
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I've run into some of those teams and played myself some too. I agree with the speed control part of it, I found that scarf Heatran could play some role on it but it is easily exploited. Rocky Helmet sunny day Cress is a good way to weaken TTar for a cleaner like latios, but you loose a lot on her walling abilities with one less move and no lefty. It really is a match-up fish in the end but I appreciate it coming back a little bit in the ladder, it offers diversity.
Hey. Cool post with interesting ideas. I’m a DPP main who likes to check in with BW every now and then. I am not well versed in this tier, but could Scarf Heatran work on some of these builds as speed control? And do you(or anyone)know if Tspikes + Sun has been attempted?
Scarf Heatran is honestly not your best meta pick these days in a tier plagued to the brim with Sand, Rain and dragons. It has some merit in that it can outspeed Alakazam (which he won't KO if it is sash and will be killed back with Focus Blast) and adamant Dragonite (which needs its Multiscale broken).
TSpikes with Sun can be and has been attempted with Tentacruel, which works surprisingly well in sun as it offers a reliably bulky water resist and Rapid Spin to boot. Forretress is an option too, but it probably prefers to run Spikes.
Idk Sun will always be in this awkward place without its Chlorophyll abusers and should probably not be used outside of fishing for very specific match-ups.
I've had my fun, so I figured it was about time to share this team.
I started building this structure due to wanting to make use of forry, which definitely was a challenge. It has an interesting place in the bw metagame as a spinner and hazard setter, but requires a decent amount of support to let it shine.
This team shares a lot of core elements of similar stalls like ABR stall, but has its own unique techs to catch opponents off guard which can make it really potent. Two of the biggest standout sets I found lead to the success of the team were tspike forry and trick cm flame orb reun, which create a surprisingly powerful synergy. Besides making matchups like cm keld more managable, tspikes also place oppposing ttar on a timer, allowing reun to put in work. Despite being walled by ttar, flame orb allows for some unique plays, such as using it to deal with dragons or excadrill, as well as providing the benefit of protecting you from paralysis
Gliscor serves as the main wincon of the team, and really ties the team together. In contrast to ABR stall, I used an impish nature. This creates synergy with toad, and with enough defense investment can tank a hit from +2 dragonite, who can otherwise threaten the team once other members are weakened.
One other thing I will mention is wish + soft boiled on bliss. Wish support allows you to heal forry and keep spinning in longer games, while freeing its item slot for rocky helmet over lefties to better check physical threats. Seis acts as role compression, enabling all these sets with harzards and the ability to handle rotom, which is otherwise extremely strong into this composition.
Looking at how it has performed, this team has had quite a decent bit of success on the ladder, with an anonymous user taking it to 1780 elo / 93 GXE. If you'd like to try it yourself, then you can have the importable here, and find out what spreads work best for you. The only thing I ask if you use this team is to keep the nicknames ;)
This team has been a PITA to deal with, very strong into the kind of stuff I usually play. Trick flame orb reuniclus is really an interesting set I have to play around more. Thank you for sharing it !
Cool team but whats the point of semi sharing it like this. If you care about meta development and sharing your thoughts on it than surely ev spreads would be a part of that. Like how you expand on impish gliscor in your post despite not sharing it in the paste.
I've had my fun, so I figured it was about time to share this team.
I started building this structure due to wanting to make use of forry, which definitely was a challenge. It has an interesting place in the bw metagame as a spinner and hazard setter, but requires a decent amount of support to let it shine.
This team shares a lot of core elements of similar stalls like ABR stall, but has its own unique techs to catch opponents off guard which can make it really potent. Two of the biggest standout sets I found lead to the success of the team were tspike forry and trick cm flame orb reun, which create a surprisingly powerful synergy. Besides making matchups like cm keld more managable, tspikes also place oppposing ttar on a timer, allowing reun to put in work. Despite being walled by ttar, flame orb allows for some unique plays, such as using it to deal with dragons or excadrill, as well as providing the benefit of protecting you from paralysis
Gliscor serves as the main wincon of the team, and really ties the team together. In contrast to ABR stall, I used an impish nature. This creates synergy with toad, and with enough defense investment can tank a hit from +2 dragonite, who can otherwise threaten the team once other members are weakened.
One other thing I will mention is wish + soft boiled on bliss. Wish support allows you to heal forry and keep spinning in longer games, while freeing its item slot for rocky helmet over lefties to better check physical threats. Seis acts as role compression, enabling all these sets with harzards and the ability to handle rotom, which is otherwise extremely strong into this composition.
Looking at how it has performed, this team has had quite a decent bit of success on the ladder, with an anonymous user taking it to 1780 elo / 93 GXE. If you'd like to try it yourself, then you can have the importable here, and find out what spreads work best for you. The only thing I ask if you use this team is to keep the nicknames ;)
View attachment 859137
And if you feel like hiding them then why share the team at all. The less you reveal the bigger advantage you will have if you ever use this again in tour. Is this a bait to trick a future opponent and all the sets are actually different? Is it just to appease the mindless rules of a clique? Is it fear that someone will point out they are bad(can relate)? Very confused
Still thanks for going out of your way to share in a way many others havent.
In a coffee shop waiting for my car to get fixed so just a general thought-dump on sun:
Not gonna go too in-depth on specific teams but me and others have been running slightly less stall-y sun teams over the last 1-2 weeks and have actually been pleasantly surprised by the results. Nothing drastically metagame changing, and sun does always need to fish something pretty hard, but theres probably a bit more room for experimentation here than we make out.
Since Chlorophyll and Dugtrio got banned, almost all the sun representation in BW OU has been full stall, lots of them built by bluri and run by guys like feaniix and jaajgko. Stuff like:
The tl;dr is that Chansey with weather clear and Cresselia with buffed Moonlight is a kinda busted defensive core, paired with a generally water-weak wincon that is hard to kill in sun (Bold QD Volcarona, SDef SD Gliscor). Bluri is a stall genius and these are likely as good as it gets for full stall with Sun, but they have weaknesses just inherent to the approach:
Like I said, I think the bluri stalls are as good as it can get for pure sun stall, but lots of top players e.g. finch dice have expressed the opinion that maybe (and only maybe) there's viable sun teams beyond the realm of full stall.
- Zero speed control - with 311 Ninetales the fastest Pokemon on the team, you are always playing reactively vs Keldeo, Terrakion, Garchomp, Kyurem-B, Thundurus-T, Latios, DDnite. That is sometimes gonna lead to situations where you get crit once and lose, or Cresselia gets overloaded trying to do one too many jobs, or you get put out of position by doubling. This is part of the reason why Sand stalls run ScarfTar or Latios, Hail stall runs Latios, Rain stalls used to run Scarf Politoed etc. Being able to rkill one of those breakers in a situation where you've let a wall get chipped just to release some pressure makes stall more consistent, but Sun is rly tight for spots.
- No water resist - Yes, you have sun and Ninetales in theory comes in on Politoed easily. Chansey in Sun is effectively the best Water resist in the game. Unfortunately, Ninetales absolutely sucks and is abusable af and you are riding the weather war knife edge constantly, especially vs rockers with good Donphan/Forret MUs. Losing the weather war cos Ninetales took a crit Scald, or the Politoed is Specs Hydro, or Donphan got Knocked Off and then you can't beat Keldeo is really sad
- Limited pressure on Tyranitar - most people that I've spoken to think that Sand is the hardest MU for a lot of Suns to play, especially with something like pivot LandoT or Rotom-W, or Tyranitar + breaker that Cress normally answers (something like Terrak/Keldeo). Unfortunatley, collectively thats a lot of Sand teams. To me, the root cause of this is limited pressure on Tyranitar. If Tyranitar can come in off a pivot, it can be really hard for Sun to get chip on it and outlast it. If you can force in Cresselia lots then thats also easy Tyranitar entry for not much chip. Sure, if Tyranitar needs to come in on Ninetales, Sunny Trapper Heatran, Volc, Chansey directly then you can chip it quickly, but thats going to be really dependent on Tyranitar partners.
Balance:
The starting point for this entire discussion / the last week of building has using Sun Cresselia closer to how we play Reuniclus on Sand/Hail i.e. pair it with an offensive second Psychic and Spikes to aggressively puts damage on Tyranitar. If Tyranitar gets to below 50% in the opening 10 turns of the game then thats going to really accelerate how much you can use Cresselia in the game and, well, Cresselia in Sun is broken, so your consistency into all the stupid breakers improves. Latios rkilling Garchomp means Cresselia is less likely to get overloaded vs HO, for example. Latios also lets you go on the offensive vs Rain, gives you a Keldeo/Chomp/Terrak/KyuB revenge killer, and a water resist so you don't fold if you need to play in Rain for more than 2 turns at a time. All this just reduces the pressure on Ninetales and Cresselia to make them do their jobs more consistently. We're still working out the sets on this exactly but if you've been on ladder this week you'll probably have played a 1700+ account finding decent consistency with this core. The ceiling for these might be a 7/10 team but thats still interesting and maybe something you'd bring to a tour game every now and then
Offense:
This one is more theoretical. We have already seen Sunny Day Heatran to weather clear for Conkeldurr / Dragonite on Sun, but its possible we can go more direct and just use Ninetales. That improves the Starmie MU quite a lot (immedite sun on entry making it easier to come in on), combined with Tyranitar switch-ins being the free-est Conkeldurr Bulk Up of all time. Conk's worst MU is generally considered to be Rain, and Ninetales coming in on Politoed at least short term goes some way to improve it. Dragons with Fire coverage synergise with Sun by getting better damage on Skarm / Rain Ferro . There may be nothing here at all, and I'm unsure whether this wants something like Victini or Darmanitan for more direct Sun abuse or if optimally you just use the normal HO core with the Sun "abuse" being more nuanced (Fire Punch buff, Sand removal, Rain removal)
tl;dr if you want some building ideas then try a Sun that isn't full stall, there might be an ok team in there
p.s. my car is fucked fml
I attempted to build your sun offense idea actually, I did attempt to crash test it on ladder but I can't give too much effort to playing right now so I can't give a good rating for it but I tried my best and maybe this can serve as a launching point?
https://pokepast.es/96fbc557c38aa1aa
Remarks:
-Ninetales EVs are to take two Thunders from Modest Lefties Thundy-T (about 3% chance both hit with the rolls to kill) while still outspeeding Adamant Exca, honestly this team relies very heavily on harding the Ninetales into the enemy Politoed and never having Rain up and dodging those 50% accurate Thunders. Similarly Heatran EVs are for Thundy Focus Blast
-Roar on Ninetales and Adamant Trick Scarf Jira hopefully gives you two shots at denying CM Reun if you are caught out of position? I think if it gets in position thrice you probably should lose lol
-Magma Storm is definitely usable over Fire Blast, I just dislike the accuracy. In Sun, even unboosted Fire Blasts can maul stuff like HippoClef. It can even keep SR up against Starmie if you're smart
-weird set on Starmie too but I wanted it to punch Rotom and Latios so here we are
Honestly, cool prompt
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The team I was hanging out with and trying to help with the current edition of BWPL is sadly out of the race. I spent most of my time flooding the team chat with novelty OU teambuilding ideas that I thought could maybe gain the team an advantage here or there. Those of you who care to know me know that I don't care for personal glory, rather I play this game in an effort to make friends and to try to push the metagame, so I decided to dump them somewhere for the public, and this place seemed ok for it. As it turns out, actually trying to talk to people in the public Discord chats is mostly a futile effort, because most people playing this game apparently simply do not care to talk to you if you have no accolades to flex. Occasionally you might get an acknowledgment that people actually considered something you brought up, but almost never to your face. People truly apparently prefer to talk about you, rather than to you.
I also really liked phosphor's post above, and at some point wanted to contribute my own version of Sun offense with Swords Dance Combusken, but now it just sits unfinished in a corner of my builder.
Lapras Rain
A Pokémon that I've always thought was underrated is Lapras, and I'm shocked that it is actually unranked on the viability rankings. It demands support, yes, and it's not a nuke like Latios or Conkeldurr right out of the gate, but if you give it 2 free turns and don't have a Jellicent, it will run over your team, since after two curses even most Ferrothorn, Keldeo and Kyurems stop being a concern. Unlike most other matchup fishes this one also has a crazy high ceiling, since with STAB Ice Shard it laughs at most standard revenge killers. It's difficult to status it or chip it down, since Rest in Rain is basically a Full Heal by the end of the turn, and KO'ing it from full health is a daunting task, given that it has 130/80/95 bulk (for comparison's sake, Conkeldurr has 105/95/65). Adamant is maybe better for immediate power, but Careful can allow you to navigate some of the few offensive counters this mon has (such as Thunder Starmie and Thunder Jirachi). This team is actually imho pretty bad, but it might've still had a hand somewhere in convincing Jhonx to build his own Lapras team, but like the gentleman player he is he immediately had to share the sauce with the public
.
I quite like running a water immune mon on rain teams that aren't very offensive, since it drastically decreases the chances of getting counterswept by Keldeo or Starmie at some point. Mew is a mon I'd like to explore more both as a status spreader and tank and in such roles as Choice Scarfer, since it has some unique qualities. Rest should be self-explanatory.
HippoTar Sand
I'm a bit surprised that I can't actually remember having encountered Hippo and Ttar on the same team before, since imho they actually complement each other well: Hippo provides Sand teams with a rare mon resembling a Thundy and Volcarona answer and a Stealth Rocks user, allowing Ttar/Lando/Ferro to run more creative sets. Having both sand setters also means you can make more aggressive plays against Politoed and especially Tentacruel and flex your HP Fire coverage on mons like Latios more freely. This Ferrothorn runs probably my favorite Ferro set right now. Max SpAtk with Giga Drain and HP Fire allows it to consistently switch in against both the ubiquitous water types and opposing Ferrothorn throughout a game and force damage on them instead of slowly dying, once it catches a burn. Rotom runs a set I'd also like to explore more: Offensive Leftovers with enough speed to outpace adamant Scizor. I thought HP Dragon is an ok mid ground for a coverage move, since it hits all the dragon types in the game, including Kyurem, and it actually gives really good IV's.
Superman Sand
https://pokepast.es/6f0e0978625e3955
https://pokepast.es/c95c054be2d39610
https://pokepast.es/4fc1bf649805a6ea
https://pokepast.es/ace6bd1819276cb7
These teams were born out of a desire to revive Reuniclus for the recent Conkeldurr epidemic. The idea of Acid Armor Helmet Reuni is pretty simple: Ttar & Jirachi kill themselves with recoil, and everybody else (including other Reuni) gets snuffed out by +8 psyshock. Curse Skarm is here, because he answers all the SD Earthquake users pretty well, and Ttar uses Air Balloon, so he can reset weather for only 12% health loss with the help of 2 slow pivots, and makes the entire team immune to spikes by default (which is actually my favorite Ttar set right now). The biggest challenge was finding half-decent water resists for such a team, since unless you really want to try RestTalk Gyarados or Water Absorb Mantine, you are basically stuck with Rotom and the Latwins. I have come to accept the weakness to Keldeo & Thundy as a natural fact for teams such as these, a necessary drawback maybe even. And Volcarona, yes Volcarona.
SubCMRachi Rain
Probably the most uninspiring team I built, my take on SubCM Rachi. Try to force status on the enemy team in the early game, and when you're good to go, try to sweep with Rachi. Ferro has Thunder so he can both threaten opposing Tenta more effectively and force paralysis on stuff like Latios and opposing Ferro, and Zapdos is here over Thundy, because he has an easier time staying alive.
Cancernite Rain
Probably the worst team I built (Mono psychic Cele without baton pass ew). Hurricane is probably not even as spammable of a move as I'd thought it might be. Also, while there might be a place for offensive substitute Jellicent somewhere, this is probably not the way to do it.
Espeon Screens HO
This is probably the incredibly slim extent of Haxorus' niche in this tier, since he is otherwise just too frail, and his typing too poor to actually set up on anything. If you want immediate power, you are better off with Kyurem, and if you want a Dragon Dancer that can outpace ScarfRachi, you're better off with Salamence. The posted set preys on FerroZam teams, but Aqua Tail for Lando/Gliscor is probably also legit somehow.
Hydreigon Taunt Spam
My effort on a Hydreigon team: I noticed it's the only specially offensive dragon type that gets Taunt. Could probably also be done better than here. Not much to say.
Ttar Rain
https://pokepast.es/15071a6aa5722bb8
https://pokepast.es/8a75a4fcc3ef05ae
Probably one of my better ideas. Sand builds have the advantage that Tyranitar actually provides a semi-consistent way of dealing with Latios, whereas Rain builds have the advantage that boosted Water STAB is a semi-consistent way of dealing with the tier's most notorious perpetuum mobile strategies (Gliscor, Reuniclus), so why not just combine both?!? Rain regulars Keldeo and Thundy appreciate having Latios (or Latias) out of the way anyway. Gyarados has been popularized by the goat Nalo, so I'm not going to introduce it again. Toxicroak is a niche Pokémon with some solid and even great matchups against other Mons common on both Rain and Sand (Poli, Ttar, Ferro, Keldeo, Terrak, Seis, etc.), whose main downside is that it doesn't help its team in any way with the main problem Rain teams face (a long-term solution to Latios) whatsoever. However, it can probably do some work here, given Ttar can help with the Psychics. I actually really dislike Chople Ttar and try to use something different whenever possible, but it can come in handy here, I guess.
Rain Stall
The other way that Toxicroak could, maybe, potentially, hypothetically er... work. Hope that its great synergy with Blissey will carry you through the tier's special insanities, and pray that you don't get overwhelmed by an avalanche of physical Dragons and Scizor or the like. Under Rain, Toxicroak actually breaks the first law of Thermodynamics more badly than even Gliscor, which is something for sure.
Kingdragmag
https://pokepast.es/5d403e85084322ed
https://pokepast.es/9c7692b38e1ff8a8
You might recognize this team, as Nigel took an uncharacteristic like to it. Kingdra is mostly outclassed by Gyarados, which provides better defensive utility for a team (Keldeo, Drill, Volcarona, etc.), and Kyurem, which provides exponentially more immediate power, but it does imho have a niche by combining the unique typing with Dragon Dance. The posted spread allows you to create a functional substitute against defensive Rotom and then dance for the win against all the fat water types that rely on status to beat it. Swift Swim also means that it basically runs over Rain teams, once Ferro is out of the way. I eventually realized that the team is far too slow for HO, and that no number of Custap Drills (Custap Drill is probably legit, Shadow Claw likely isn't) and Shadow Sneak Gallades could fix that problem, and replaced the latter half of the team with a standard ChompRachiMie core like a good builder (not me) probably would.
Roserade BO
Yet another Pokémon that I think probably has a niche somewhere. Roserade trades Amoongus' longevity for hazards and actual stats, allowing it to swap into Keldeo/Thundy in the early game and preserve the team's Latios for later. This team is probably also suboptimal, I don't think it got quite out of the development phase.
Big shoutout to Nigel in particular for testing most of this stuff on ladder out of his own volition
. You're the goat.
Diss, ridicule, discuss, steal from the teams, or just ignore them. I can't tell you what to do, and neither do I want to.
Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen lesen Sie die Packungsbeilage und fragen Sie Ihren Arzt oder Apotheker.
Have a good week, everybody. Go Forretress'!
I also really liked phosphor's post above, and at some point wanted to contribute my own version of Sun offense with Swords Dance Combusken, but now it just sits unfinished in a corner of my builder.
Lapras Rain
A Pokémon that I've always thought was underrated is Lapras, and I'm shocked that it is actually unranked on the viability rankings. It demands support, yes, and it's not a nuke like Latios or Conkeldurr right out of the gate, but if you give it 2 free turns and don't have a Jellicent, it will run over your team, since after two curses even most Ferrothorn, Keldeo and Kyurems stop being a concern. Unlike most other matchup fishes this one also has a crazy high ceiling, since with STAB Ice Shard it laughs at most standard revenge killers. It's difficult to status it or chip it down, since Rest in Rain is basically a Full Heal by the end of the turn, and KO'ing it from full health is a daunting task, given that it has 130/80/95 bulk (for comparison's sake, Conkeldurr has 105/95/65). Adamant is maybe better for immediate power, but Careful can allow you to navigate some of the few offensive counters this mon has (such as Thunder Starmie and Thunder Jirachi). This team is actually imho pretty bad, but it might've still had a hand somewhere in convincing Jhonx to build his own Lapras team, but like the gentleman player he is he immediately had to share the sauce with the public
.I quite like running a water immune mon on rain teams that aren't very offensive, since it drastically decreases the chances of getting counterswept by Keldeo or Starmie at some point. Mew is a mon I'd like to explore more both as a status spreader and tank and in such roles as Choice Scarfer, since it has some unique qualities. Rest should be self-explanatory.
HippoTar Sand
I'm a bit surprised that I can't actually remember having encountered Hippo and Ttar on the same team before, since imho they actually complement each other well: Hippo provides Sand teams with a rare mon resembling a Thundy and Volcarona answer and a Stealth Rocks user, allowing Ttar/Lando/Ferro to run more creative sets. Having both sand setters also means you can make more aggressive plays against Politoed and especially Tentacruel and flex your HP Fire coverage on mons like Latios more freely. This Ferrothorn runs probably my favorite Ferro set right now. Max SpAtk with Giga Drain and HP Fire allows it to consistently switch in against both the ubiquitous water types and opposing Ferrothorn throughout a game and force damage on them instead of slowly dying, once it catches a burn. Rotom runs a set I'd also like to explore more: Offensive Leftovers with enough speed to outpace adamant Scizor. I thought HP Dragon is an ok mid ground for a coverage move, since it hits all the dragon types in the game, including Kyurem, and it actually gives really good IV's.
Superman Sand
https://pokepast.es/6f0e0978625e3955
https://pokepast.es/c95c054be2d39610
https://pokepast.es/4fc1bf649805a6ea
https://pokepast.es/ace6bd1819276cb7
These teams were born out of a desire to revive Reuniclus for the recent Conkeldurr epidemic. The idea of Acid Armor Helmet Reuni is pretty simple: Ttar & Jirachi kill themselves with recoil, and everybody else (including other Reuni) gets snuffed out by +8 psyshock. Curse Skarm is here, because he answers all the SD Earthquake users pretty well, and Ttar uses Air Balloon, so he can reset weather for only 12% health loss with the help of 2 slow pivots, and makes the entire team immune to spikes by default (which is actually my favorite Ttar set right now). The biggest challenge was finding half-decent water resists for such a team, since unless you really want to try RestTalk Gyarados or Water Absorb Mantine, you are basically stuck with Rotom and the Latwins. I have come to accept the weakness to Keldeo & Thundy as a natural fact for teams such as these, a necessary drawback maybe even. And Volcarona, yes Volcarona.
SubCMRachi Rain
Probably the most uninspiring team I built, my take on SubCM Rachi. Try to force status on the enemy team in the early game, and when you're good to go, try to sweep with Rachi. Ferro has Thunder so he can both threaten opposing Tenta more effectively and force paralysis on stuff like Latios and opposing Ferro, and Zapdos is here over Thundy, because he has an easier time staying alive.
Cancernite Rain
Probably the worst team I built (Mono psychic Cele without baton pass ew). Hurricane is probably not even as spammable of a move as I'd thought it might be. Also, while there might be a place for offensive substitute Jellicent somewhere, this is probably not the way to do it.
Espeon Screens HO
This is probably the incredibly slim extent of Haxorus' niche in this tier, since he is otherwise just too frail, and his typing too poor to actually set up on anything. If you want immediate power, you are better off with Kyurem, and if you want a Dragon Dancer that can outpace ScarfRachi, you're better off with Salamence. The posted set preys on FerroZam teams, but Aqua Tail for Lando/Gliscor is probably also legit somehow.
Hydreigon Taunt Spam
My effort on a Hydreigon team: I noticed it's the only specially offensive dragon type that gets Taunt. Could probably also be done better than here. Not much to say.
Ttar Rain
https://pokepast.es/15071a6aa5722bb8
https://pokepast.es/8a75a4fcc3ef05ae
Probably one of my better ideas. Sand builds have the advantage that Tyranitar actually provides a semi-consistent way of dealing with Latios, whereas Rain builds have the advantage that boosted Water STAB is a semi-consistent way of dealing with the tier's most notorious perpetuum mobile strategies (Gliscor, Reuniclus), so why not just combine both?!? Rain regulars Keldeo and Thundy appreciate having Latios (or Latias) out of the way anyway. Gyarados has been popularized by the goat Nalo, so I'm not going to introduce it again. Toxicroak is a niche Pokémon with some solid and even great matchups against other Mons common on both Rain and Sand (Poli, Ttar, Ferro, Keldeo, Terrak, Seis, etc.), whose main downside is that it doesn't help its team in any way with the main problem Rain teams face (a long-term solution to Latios) whatsoever. However, it can probably do some work here, given Ttar can help with the Psychics. I actually really dislike Chople Ttar and try to use something different whenever possible, but it can come in handy here, I guess.
Rain Stall
The other way that Toxicroak could, maybe, potentially, hypothetically er... work. Hope that its great synergy with Blissey will carry you through the tier's special insanities, and pray that you don't get overwhelmed by an avalanche of physical Dragons and Scizor or the like. Under Rain, Toxicroak actually breaks the first law of Thermodynamics more badly than even Gliscor, which is something for sure.
Kingdragmag
https://pokepast.es/5d403e85084322ed
https://pokepast.es/9c7692b38e1ff8a8
You might recognize this team, as Nigel took an uncharacteristic like to it. Kingdra is mostly outclassed by Gyarados, which provides better defensive utility for a team (Keldeo, Drill, Volcarona, etc.), and Kyurem, which provides exponentially more immediate power, but it does imho have a niche by combining the unique typing with Dragon Dance. The posted spread allows you to create a functional substitute against defensive Rotom and then dance for the win against all the fat water types that rely on status to beat it. Swift Swim also means that it basically runs over Rain teams, once Ferro is out of the way. I eventually realized that the team is far too slow for HO, and that no number of Custap Drills (Custap Drill is probably legit, Shadow Claw likely isn't) and Shadow Sneak Gallades could fix that problem, and replaced the latter half of the team with a standard ChompRachiMie core like a good builder (not me) probably would.
Roserade BO
Yet another Pokémon that I think probably has a niche somewhere. Roserade trades Amoongus' longevity for hazards and actual stats, allowing it to swap into Keldeo/Thundy in the early game and preserve the team's Latios for later. This team is probably also suboptimal, I don't think it got quite out of the development phase.
Big shoutout to Nigel in particular for testing most of this stuff on ladder out of his own volition
. You're the goat.Diss, ridicule, discuss, steal from the teams, or just ignore them. I can't tell you what to do, and neither do I want to.
Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen lesen Sie die Packungsbeilage und fragen Sie Ihren Arzt oder Apotheker.
Have a good week, everybody. Go Forretress'!
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Thank you for posting those teams ! Lot of interesting ideas I will try on the ladder too. Never seen a special Ferro being used, it might do something cool and unexpected. Same with dragmag with kingdra, since one of the flaws of this style has always been being overwhelmed by Rain HO
somehow after being first going into the last week, my team has fallen short of poffs in bwpl this season (again). however, this tournament was a lot of fun. first of all, shoutout to the guys on the rayquaza's, genuinley the vibes were so good and you were all awesome, i'll remember this tournament as one of my favourites i've had the pleasure of playing and managing.
now onto semi important stuff, i built a lot during this tournament, massive shoutout to Ctown6 and crucify for being my test dummies as well as letting my rant for hours about the tier and bouncing ideas with me. you two are genuinley the best team mates i could have asked for. now i would like to preface, i dont think these teams are the best teams in the world, but if they are here they are interesting enough for me to discuss and talk about.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-967301
starting in week one, i theoried a lot of sash leads for hyper offence, with volcarona and thundurus both popping up as interesting sash users that can spread a status and blow holes through the enemy team pretty early. eventually i landed on breloom. breloom is a great counter lead vs rain, typically being able to just get off bullet seeds and break wholes from the lead. now vs sand you need to get quite a few turns right, with landorus leading and upping and uturning it can make breloom's life pretty hard. stun spore however allows you to attempt to paralyse landorus if decides to stay, or if the opponnent uturns turn one you can potentially grab a stun spore on latios. i paired this set with dd ice punch dragonite to punish that and it lead to some really automatic games in tests. now did i face either of these matchups in game? no i faced cresselia magnezone italian crack, but the breloom still got off a lick but loom is genuinley goated.
on another point, i think breloom is pretty underlooked in the tier. underlooked might be an overstatement, but he matches up nicely vs the high rotom we are seeing right now, and synergises well with scarf jirachi in terms of being able to pivot on a lot of loom checks.
keeping it semi related, this season we as an ou core found ourselves patching a lot of our rains up with thunder wave thundurus, and even building new 6s with this set itself. the main idea is that twave thundurus can bail you out vs lorb volcarona and alakazam without relying on rng, while also being able to lure latios for a guaranteed paralysis. one 6 we used this on was the generic scarf jirachi ferro rain and allowing our keldeo to explore with it's item and moveset a lot more.
another 6 we tried was this one here, with sd aqua tail dragon claw garchomp. the main idea is that garchomp is pretty hard to stop once the latios has been baited for the paralysis. the teams a work in progress but pretty cool. (we also tried tentacruel>mie to patch up the keldeo matchup, as well as chople ferrothorn was on most/if not all of these)
i had this one planned for my week 2 game, unfortunately my opponent had to be subbed so we ended up bringing it in the last week. everyone was banging on about cresellia in bw discord and i wanted to get involved in the action. im sure you guys have seen peng go on about cresellia enough so i wont go into too much detail. i was kinda inspired by sv dragonites and how they use it as a nice defencive tool and a win condition late game. dont use this if you want to win.
this was one of my favourite teams i used this season, unfortunately i faced some pretty bad rng when the game was won but i also made some misplays so cant complain too much. i really wanted to use slowturn gliscor + specs keldeo/any sort of pokemon that eases keldeo's entries onto the field. i kept landing on versions of old abr mamoswine amoongus builds, and was getting pretty sick of picking between my conk mu or my zam spikes matchup, so i decided to try rain. honestly i'll probably rmt this team at some point because rmt's are dying and they need to be revived, main point is that gliscor can enter on celebi, amoonguss and jellicent, three guys keldeo hates seeing, and can get hazards or uturn for momentum. gliscor also lets ferrothorn save a move slot which is super nice. this allowed me to run knock off ferrothorn to help with the tragic lefties ferrothorn matchup, while also fitting chople boom to deal with thundurus. vs rotom you kinda have to bait you're item which sorta works, the big problem mu is lefties drill paired with rotom, but otherwise i thought the team was super good. you can probably do focus blast on keldeo and try nuke rotom but thats pretty unreliable.
https://pokepast.es/04416e43f6e9b3e0
gonna straight up post the paste for this one because ugh. i wanted to use cb tar on fat because opp liked fat and i wanted to be adventerous. stole the idea from a team Fakes sent me like ages ago so credit to him. light screen on clefable lets you pop a screen up vs lorb volc if it's not modest, and then cb tar can come in and revenge it. slowking genuinley sucks and is unviable without a lati twin. again prob dont use this one.
now a lot of people thought i trolled with this team, but this again is probably up there with one of my favourite teams i built. now before i speak, i want to say, i had the wrong import when i played on tours and the volc had ice and not ground, however if you use this team you make it ground. this week i was looking for ways to avoid using scarf jirachi on offence, because i was getting a bit too predictable (scarf jirachi is a top 3 pokemon idc). that was until the absolutely genius zRyan says "why not use salac berry" and i slapped it into the builder. pretty generic skarm jelli mixrachi, with sitrus volc to punish lati which typically annoys these teams. ground on volcarona is to snipe tran and enable jirachi, otherwise heatran owns. eject jellicent to keep up vs ho since sash zam cant kill starmie. (ebutton go lando uturn sack jelli, if they switch zam kills on the next time mie is in). energy ball on zam here because it does big damage to rotom and you want shock>psy for blobs.
last one i'll post for now because it's 1am and im tired but same idea as last team. i didn't want to use scarf jirachi, so i opted for helmet and ran scarf mence in hail which has pretty nice synergy of hail annoying steals and mence being a volc check that also benefits from weak steals. fire mie to snipe ferrothorn, and then physical offence to hit stuff. abomasnow has nice sequencing i've found to, typically leading into landorus and then ur able to switch to chomp/helmet jirachi on the uturn and play from there.
honourable mention to some of these which were pretty awesome too. the sunny aero one being insanely sheist. if you lead vs rain and up then sunny volc literally claims with fire blast and sets up a qd next turn. if you want to be ultimate sheist warrior use mental herb and qd on the poli encore.
i have a tonne more that i could post but again i am super tired. anyways i had a lot of fun this tournament and it couldn't have happened without having such an amazing and fun team to work with. goodluck to the remaining teams in poffs, looking forward to hopefully seeing some high quality games, if anyone actually read this then thank you. goodnight
now onto semi important stuff, i built a lot during this tournament, massive shoutout to Ctown6 and crucify for being my test dummies as well as letting my rant for hours about the tier and bouncing ideas with me. you two are genuinley the best team mates i could have asked for. now i would like to preface, i dont think these teams are the best teams in the world, but if they are here they are interesting enough for me to discuss and talk about.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen5ou-967301
starting in week one, i theoried a lot of sash leads for hyper offence, with volcarona and thundurus both popping up as interesting sash users that can spread a status and blow holes through the enemy team pretty early. eventually i landed on breloom. breloom is a great counter lead vs rain, typically being able to just get off bullet seeds and break wholes from the lead. now vs sand you need to get quite a few turns right, with landorus leading and upping and uturning it can make breloom's life pretty hard. stun spore however allows you to attempt to paralyse landorus if decides to stay, or if the opponnent uturns turn one you can potentially grab a stun spore on latios. i paired this set with dd ice punch dragonite to punish that and it lead to some really automatic games in tests. now did i face either of these matchups in game? no i faced cresselia magnezone italian crack, but the breloom still got off a lick but loom is genuinley goated.
on another point, i think breloom is pretty underlooked in the tier. underlooked might be an overstatement, but he matches up nicely vs the high rotom we are seeing right now, and synergises well with scarf jirachi in terms of being able to pivot on a lot of loom checks.
keeping it semi related, this season we as an ou core found ourselves patching a lot of our rains up with thunder wave thundurus, and even building new 6s with this set itself. the main idea is that twave thundurus can bail you out vs lorb volcarona and alakazam without relying on rng, while also being able to lure latios for a guaranteed paralysis. one 6 we used this on was the generic scarf jirachi ferro rain and allowing our keldeo to explore with it's item and moveset a lot more.
another 6 we tried was this one here, with sd aqua tail dragon claw garchomp. the main idea is that garchomp is pretty hard to stop once the latios has been baited for the paralysis. the teams a work in progress but pretty cool. (we also tried tentacruel>mie to patch up the keldeo matchup, as well as chople ferrothorn was on most/if not all of these)
i had this one planned for my week 2 game, unfortunately my opponent had to be subbed so we ended up bringing it in the last week. everyone was banging on about cresellia in bw discord and i wanted to get involved in the action. im sure you guys have seen peng go on about cresellia enough so i wont go into too much detail. i was kinda inspired by sv dragonites and how they use it as a nice defencive tool and a win condition late game. dont use this if you want to win.
this was one of my favourite teams i used this season, unfortunately i faced some pretty bad rng when the game was won but i also made some misplays so cant complain too much. i really wanted to use slowturn gliscor + specs keldeo/any sort of pokemon that eases keldeo's entries onto the field. i kept landing on versions of old abr mamoswine amoongus builds, and was getting pretty sick of picking between my conk mu or my zam spikes matchup, so i decided to try rain. honestly i'll probably rmt this team at some point because rmt's are dying and they need to be revived, main point is that gliscor can enter on celebi, amoonguss and jellicent, three guys keldeo hates seeing, and can get hazards or uturn for momentum. gliscor also lets ferrothorn save a move slot which is super nice. this allowed me to run knock off ferrothorn to help with the tragic lefties ferrothorn matchup, while also fitting chople boom to deal with thundurus. vs rotom you kinda have to bait you're item which sorta works, the big problem mu is lefties drill paired with rotom, but otherwise i thought the team was super good. you can probably do focus blast on keldeo and try nuke rotom but thats pretty unreliable.
https://pokepast.es/04416e43f6e9b3e0
gonna straight up post the paste for this one because ugh. i wanted to use cb tar on fat because opp liked fat and i wanted to be adventerous. stole the idea from a team Fakes sent me like ages ago so credit to him. light screen on clefable lets you pop a screen up vs lorb volc if it's not modest, and then cb tar can come in and revenge it. slowking genuinley sucks and is unviable without a lati twin. again prob dont use this one.
now a lot of people thought i trolled with this team, but this again is probably up there with one of my favourite teams i built. now before i speak, i want to say, i had the wrong import when i played on tours and the volc had ice and not ground, however if you use this team you make it ground. this week i was looking for ways to avoid using scarf jirachi on offence, because i was getting a bit too predictable (scarf jirachi is a top 3 pokemon idc). that was until the absolutely genius zRyan says "why not use salac berry" and i slapped it into the builder. pretty generic skarm jelli mixrachi, with sitrus volc to punish lati which typically annoys these teams. ground on volcarona is to snipe tran and enable jirachi, otherwise heatran owns. eject jellicent to keep up vs ho since sash zam cant kill starmie. (ebutton go lando uturn sack jelli, if they switch zam kills on the next time mie is in). energy ball on zam here because it does big damage to rotom and you want shock>psy for blobs.
last one i'll post for now because it's 1am and im tired but same idea as last team. i didn't want to use scarf jirachi, so i opted for helmet and ran scarf mence in hail which has pretty nice synergy of hail annoying steals and mence being a volc check that also benefits from weak steals. fire mie to snipe ferrothorn, and then physical offence to hit stuff. abomasnow has nice sequencing i've found to, typically leading into landorus and then ur able to switch to chomp/helmet jirachi on the uturn and play from there.
honourable mention to some of these which were pretty awesome too. the sunny aero one being insanely sheist. if you lead vs rain and up then sunny volc literally claims with fire blast and sets up a qd next turn. if you want to be ultimate sheist warrior use mental herb and qd on the poli encore.
i have a tonne more that i could post but again i am super tired. anyways i had a lot of fun this tournament and it couldn't have happened without having such an amazing and fun team to work with. goodluck to the remaining teams in poffs, looking forward to hopefully seeing some high quality games, if anyone actually read this then thank you. goodnight
Salamence is a very under-estimated cleaner in hail IMHO, I've used a lot of teams with it and pairing it with pursuit scizor and Chomp has often-times a better synergy than pairing them with lefties D-nite in hail. It is a good Volc check too. Thank you for sharing your teams !