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[LuckOverSkill]

Here's the set I'm using. Not sure about whether to switch protect out for another attacking move; I'll need to play more games before I can make a decision. I'm also not sure which pokemon to replace; it'd probably be thundurus, latios, or keldeo, but i'm not sure which. Thundurus is the obvious choice, but the team really benefits from volt absorb. I could always run choice specs or nasty plot/agility boosting thundurus, but i'm still unsure as to what the best changes would be, if any.
current team:
https://pokepast.es/38cd143f8c92419e

tornadus set:

Tornadus @ Leftovers
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
- Protect

The set is fine. Fight + Flying is very strong coverage, and both Tyranitar and Hippowdon have issues switching into this to change weather, provided you hit 70% accuracy moves.

Historically, Tornadus has always used Hurricane + Focus Blast + random utility moves (U-Turn, Sleep Talk, Tailwind, Swagger when it was allowed), because Hurricane + Focus Blast are so strong you don't need any extra coverage. There's no offensive move that performs well in the 3rd and 4th slot, not better than utilities.

Grass Knot is the best one because it hits Tyranitar and Hippowdon quite hard, but in practice it doesn't work well, as it requires prediction and the main moves do more damage reliably. U-Turn is nice to have, but hitting what's in front of you is always more desirable due to Tornadus' sheer power. Sleep Talk is useless after Sleep's ban. Tailwind is still a good option and I'm expecting it to come back as weatherless offense is becoming more common, and Prankster Tailwind is a good option against it. Taunt is not worth it usually, since stall is non-existent, but if you're so scared of Chansey it's an option.

Keldeo is the most obvious replacement, you are replacing a strong special attacker for another. The issue with this thinking is that you are also replacing a powerful nuke, while also making your team more reliant on Rapid Spin and frailer. Keldeo has nice bulk and can switch into weaker attacks from defensive mons such as Gastrodon, that's not an option with Tornadus. Also Mamoswine becomes even harder to face.

Replacing Latios is my favorite option. Yes, you lose your main revenge killer, but as I mentioned above Tailwind can make up for that. Tornadus is also slightly harder to trap, and it is better vs Sand than Latios will ever be. The biggest loss would be Trick, which is extremely helpful vs opposing Rain teams. It's a worth trade in my opinion.

I'm against replacing Thundurus-T. As you said the Electric immunity is great to have. Rotom-W is already a huge headache for the team, and replacing Thundurus would make the matchup harder than it already is. On the other hand, Tornadus absolutely smashes teams that do ok vs Thundurus, specifically the Celebi / Gastrodon Sand teams, but when you are running the standard defensive Rain backbone that's hardly a necessity.

TL;DR: Tornadus isn't a great addition to your team. It doesn't make your team better, just different. I find Tornadus works best on more offensive Rain builds, with mons that can help it get in safely, like U-Turn Jirachi. You also want to run it alongside an offensive Ground type for the synergy while also giving yourself a better chance against opposing Thundurus-T, like in the team Gamer1234556 shared.

 

[stealthstone]

TL;DR: Tornadus isn't a great addition to your team. It doesn't make your team better, just different. I find Tornadus works best on more offensive Rain builds, with mons that can help it get in safely, like U-Turn Jirachi. You also want to run it alongside an offensive Ground type for the synergy while also giving yourself a better chance against opposing Thundurus-T, like in the team Gamer1234556 shared.

I think i probably agree with you here, mainly because of some of the excellent points you made. I've done some testing of both substitute tornadus and choice specs tornadus. the sub set definitely seemed to be the weaker of the two. the specs tornadus set has performed excellently, but it doesnt seem to be definitively better than keldeo. i've had games where tornadus has performed better than keldeo would have done, and games where the opposite is true. if i'm going to use any set, it'll be the choice specs one, but the jury's still out on whether it's worth losing keldeo for.

 

[Caetano93]

I think i probably agree with you here, mainly because of some of the excellent points you made. I've done some testing of both substitute tornadus and choice specs tornadus. the sub set definitely seemed to be the weaker of the two. the specs tornadus set has performed excellently, but it doesnt seem to be definitively better than keldeo. i've had games where tornadus has performed better than keldeo would have done, and games where the opposite is true. if i'm going to use any set, it'll be the choice specs one, but the jury's still out on whether it's worth losing keldeo for.

Not a fan of Spec Tornadus. Being SR and sand week plus being easily trapped by Tyranitar isn't good qualities for me. The offensive Leftovers set still is the best way to use this Pokemon because it Hurricane hurts like hell and it also can provides Tailwind and Knock Off support.
If you really want to use Specs Tornadus, then try this set:

Tornadus (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot / Hidden Power [Grass]
- Hidden Power [Ice] / Hidden Power [Water] / U-turn / Tailwind

 

[stealthstone]

I've been trying to experiment with making my own teams from scratch recently (not because I believe they'll be viable, just because I think it's useful to familiarise oneself with what makes a team work). However, I've found more often than not I'm struggling to make 'cores' for the team because I'm not really familiar with what qualities a team's core needs to have, and what the basics it needs to cover. Are there any good resources to help me learn more about the basics of what makes a team good? BKC's videos are excellent, but I find that while they usually give good insight on how specific teams and strategies operate and what sort of sets they run, there aren't any videos I can find that cover a more basic guide on what checks, counters, and roles one needs to have on their team. Any help on this?

 

[Caetano93]

I've been trying to experiment with making my own teams from scratch recently (not because I believe they'll be viable, just because I think it's useful to familiarise oneself with what makes a team work). However, I've found more often than not I'm struggling to make 'cores' for the team because I'm not really familiar with what qualities a team's core needs to have, and what the basics it needs to cover. Are there any good resources to help me learn more about the basics of what makes a team good? BKC's videos are excellent, but I find that while they usually give good insight on how specific teams and strategies operate and what sort of sets they run, there aren't any videos I can find that cover a more basic guide on what checks, counters, and roles one needs to have on their team. Any help on this?

You can try to get a Tutor for BW OU.
https://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/battling-101.42/

you can also join the BW discord server to get imputs and advices from BW OU players about teams and structures.

 

[afuyeas]

I've been trying to experiment with making my own teams from scratch recently (not because I believe they'll be viable, just because I think it's useful to familiarise oneself with what makes a team work). However, I've found more often than not I'm struggling to make 'cores' for the team because I'm not really familiar with what qualities a team's core needs to have, and what the basics it needs to cover. Are there any good resources to help me learn more about the basics of what makes a team good? BKC's videos are excellent, but I find that while they usually give good insight on how specific teams and strategies operate and what sort of sets they run, there aren't any videos I can find that cover a more basic guide on what checks, counters, and roles one needs to have on their team. Any help on this?

Since I'm a heavy bw rain user myself I can try to give some advice. First I would use a specially defensive spread on Politoed because being able to eat Alakazam's psychics with relative ease can be the difference between breaking its sash in the endgame and beating it afterwards and being cleaned up by it. Some defense can be nice to better switch into a defensive lando's earthquake since no one else really wants to switch into the eq/u-turn/hp ice trio but overall max hp and max special defense get the job done. Also and that's more my preference as a player but if you have toxic on tentacruel you can drop toxic on Toed and run refresh or encore. Actually I really like encore + perish song with some speed evs to prevent dangerous set ups for rain like sub punch Breloom and sub ddnite because if you only have encore and rocks aren't on the field you are complete fodder for the sub dd variant since Dragonite will go back to multiscale with simply leftovers after the three turns of encore if you encored it on substitute. Hope it helps!

Edit: I should also mention sub calm mind Latias (and to a lesser extent Keldeo) as dangerous set up threats that encore + perish song on Politoed stop. Sub cm latias is admittedly rare but it basically insta wins against any rain team without a physical attacker faster than it and on rain it usually means choice scarf Scizor which is very good against calm mind Latios and Alakazam as well as u-turn koing any Celebi that has any idea about escaping a banded pursuit by baton passing out. Scarf Scizor is just really good on rain but needs support to not die because it can't invest in bulk like band can.

Edit 2: I just realized the initial question was more about what roles a pokemon can fill and cores so I'm going to elaborate on that with my Politoed with encore and perish song. So let's say I have this Politoed set:

Politoed (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Drizzle
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 248 HP / 252 SpD / 8 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Protect
- Perish Song
- Encore

The lack of refresh makes that you can't switch into rotom-wash's will-o-wisps without getting inevitably worn down by burn damage and volt switch's damage (especially if the rotom is modest) so you might want to have something against that. You have Ferrothorn that can switch into Rotom but it's not shrugging off will-o-wisp either and imagine they have something like a Terrakion alongside then you just ran into trouble. For this reason you might want something that can take on Rotom repeatedly without getting worn down and Celebi fits the bill perfectly. Don't be worried about running two grass types because Celebi and Ferrothorn complement each other quite well. So what Celebi set do you want then? I really like nasty pass personally because it synergizes with perish song Politoed, if you can punish your opponent's set up with your own set up then you possibly just win the game on the spot. Nasty Plot also dissuades Ferrothorn from stacking hazards in your face as it would just give you free set up. As such this Celebi is really good when paired with perish song Politoed, and if you can pass to agility Thundurus-T then wish your opponent good luck:

Celebi @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 124 SpD / 16 Spe (evs and nature can be tweaked)
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic (Psychic is better than Giga drain most of the time in my opinion)
- Nasty Plot
- Recover
- Baton Pass

Defensively perish song Politoed also synergizes really well with non-toxic Tentacruel because rain teams can run a team without a toxic user but then they really have to be careful around Jellicent and Gastrodon (as well as calm mind Latios). Now let's say I have this infuriating Tentacruel set:

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge
Ability: Rain Dish
EVs: 248 HP / 76 SpD / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Protect
- Rapid Spin
- Substitute

This set is incredible unless facing Jellicent who has been running night shade more and more over scald to be better against Rotom and also because the classic scald + will o wisp set is complete sub tentacruel food once poisoned, at least with night shade they can break your sub and force you to use protect for their ttar to switch in. But Jellicent really likes switching into non toxic Politoed because it can't touch it so if you reveal perish song in their face you force the jellicent into a lose-lose position. Either they switch out immediately anticipating a tentacruel switch to spin and risk their teammates eating a scald burn if you stay in as you have no reason to click any other move than scald, or they stay in and give Tentacruel a relatively free switch and then Tentacruel can simply click rapid spin until they have no choice but to switch out and give you the spin. Of course they can spam will o wisp to burn your Tentacruel on the switch but they still can't do anything to stop you from spinning and if you spin then you can simply prevent the spiker (usually skarmory) from getting any hazard which shouldn't be too difficult.

Those are the kind of synergies that make a good team, a simple move enables a ton of possibilities while you can make up for any deficiency by adding a teammate that helps in that regard and benefits from your moves. Babbling about it just convinced me that encore + perish song Toed is actually awesome and should be used more. Anyway, I hope I answered your question well enough this edit should've been the first post lol.

 

[asterat]

Mamoswine @ Chople Berry
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Spear
- Ice Shard
- Stealth Rock/Superpower

I'm sure a lot of BW players have seen chople Mamoswine by now, what makes this good is icicle spear, which is worth considering on Mamoswine in general but synergizes really well with chople Mamoswine. Icicle spear breaks substitutes and focus sashes, which is really good for chople because the two things you need chople most for (Thundurus and Alakazam) use substitute and focus sash respectively. This is also useful against a host of other stuff with substitute that set up a sub as you switch to Mamoswine and figure they can take a hit with their substitute before running away (loom, ddnite, chomp, etc). I put rocks first because the sort of team that uses this tech to interim check Alakazam and Thundy is more offensive. I also am a big proponent of putting rocks on two pokemon sometimes.

Mamoswine @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Icicle Crash
- Ice Shard
- Superpower

The Ferrothorn and Rotom killer. The same idea as fighting gem Landorus. All three gems (ground, ice, fighting) are good on Mamoswine but I like fighting because he gets past Rotom which can catch a lot of teams off guard - Mamoswine basically sweeps lots of Rotom balances once it goes down. Killing Ferrothorn prevents hazards from going up. The reason I like fight gem over the others is that you aren't as often forced into using superpower as one of Mamoswine's STABs so you can tactically save the nuke for later. For example you can create loops where Skarm comes in on Mamoswine and then rip the superpower for a kill. It also serves as a really strong midground which covers all options your opponent has, you can manufacture positions where fight gem superpower forces a kill. Ice gem is nice too, haven't tried it as much - it can misfire pretty easily.

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nasty Plot

This rips open Gastrodon and/or Celebi teams and bulky sands in general. When substitute is expected, this catches players off guard. The spread is unomptimized, 312 speed is creeping that whole crowded speed area, max special attack and the rest dumped in HP. +2 focus blast does upwards of 80% to Gastrodon. Substitute is generally better but this has a place on teams that otherwise struggle to break bulky sands, it also has great surprise value. I think I'd rather run nasty plot than grass knot because it still gets past Gastrodon but has lots of other situational uses as well.

 

[Jirachee]

Thundurus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 72 HP / 252 SpA / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Nasty Plot

I love this set man! NP sounds super underrated right now. One thing regarding the spread; wouldn't it better to simply max the Speed? That way you make sure you outspeed Jirachi (Sub sets might run max Speed), Hydreigon, and Volcarona. Winning the speed tie against Thundurus-T could also turn out to be very important. I'm not sure the extra 18 HP makes as much of a difference as outspeeding those threats.

 

[asterat]

I love this set man! NP sounds super underrated right now. One thing regarding the spread; wouldn't it better to simply max the Speed? That way you make sure you outspeed Jirachi (Sub sets might run max Speed), Hydreigon, and Volcarona. Winning the speed tie against Thundurus-T could also turn out to be very important. I'm not sure the extra 18 HP makes as much of a difference as outspeeding those threats.

I've seen virtually 0 max speed Thundy recently, but I've lived lots of hits with this set that you wouldn't live with max speed. Here are some calcs:

252 Atk Garchomp Outrage vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 264-312 (83.2 - 98.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Latios Draco Meteor vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 276-325 (87 - 102.5%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Dragon Pulse vs. 72 HP / 0 SpD Thundurus-Therian: 265-313 (83.5 - 98.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Never-Melt Ice Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Thundurus-Therian: 234-276 (73.8 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (after rocks and lefties you are in a much better spot than uninvested)

I've found living hits from Garchomp to be especially important. You will never outspeed Chomp, and you will pretty much always outspeed Tentacruel (and stuff speed creeping around there). A lot of times with Thundy you are somewhere around 60-90% health because you took rocks damage 1-2x and have healed some with lefties, the extra bulk is really nice there. Even though I've found the bulk to be useful max speed is certainly viable as well. Outspeeding Jirachi, Hydreigon, and Volc is certainly pertinent, even though I think most people are not running max speed Volc. Fast subCM Jirachi is definitely something I hadn't really thought of when dropping speed though.

 

[Caetano93]

If you want to use NP 3 atks Thundy, then use this spread: 24 HP / 252 SpA / 56 SpD / 176 Spe Timid nature

24 HP EVs optimizes Leftovers recovery for residual damage. 56 Special Defense EVs, lets Thundurus-T never be OHKOed by Choice Scarf Latios Draco Meteor. 176 Speed EVs with a Timid nature lets it outspeed a max Speed Landorus-T

EDIT: More Speed can be used to creep standard Tentacruel, standard Volcarona, Jolly Kyu-B... If you go this route then remove SpA EVs.

 

[afuyeas]

If talking about NP Thundurus which I really like because it rips through those gastrodon/celebi teams like nothing else then I can mention the super bulky spread I use on some of my teams:

Thundurus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 84 HP / 28 Def / 96 SpA / 120 SpD / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Nasty Plot
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot

I use Grass Knot over Focus Blast because of accuracy and because it rips through Gastrodon and Ttar more effectively without a NP. The bulk is there to survive a life orb Alakazam psychic after rocks because I was terrified by it, more easily set up in general and because I like when my Thundurus is able to check other Thundurus. The HP evs still maximise leftovers recovery and the speed is to get the jump on the Tentacruel that just go above max speed Landorus-T which is what mine always do, if they speed creep they speed creep. Timid Thundurus is kind of disappointing without a Nasty Plot but getting the jump on Tentacruel is invaluable when you know this set isn't likely to sweep. The special attack investment is minimal because I really wanted bulk and I invested just enough to do this:

+2 96 SpA Thundurus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 236+ SpD Celebi: 218-258 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage and Leftovers recovery
+2 96 SpA Thundurus-Therian Hidden Power Ice vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 274-324 (91 - 107.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

Some more evs could be thrown in to ohko Latios from full after a nasty plot (232 evs) but I wouldn't sacrifice bulk when I can simply set up rocks.

Edit: actually a spread like 84 HP / 156 SpA / 88 SpD / 180 Spe still survives a life orb psychic from Alakazam with rocks up and leftovers recovery and has a great shot at surviving even without it (if you're in sand) while always ohkoing Garchomp from full with hp ice which my other spread actually fails to do 31.2% of the time so it's definitely the better spread if like me you want bulk on your Thundurus. Grass Knot is really superior to focus blast against pretty much anything but Ferrothorn and Excadrill which aren't the toughest to work around. Crucially with focus blast you are not ohkoing Gastrodon after a NP even with maximum investment (+2 252 SpA Thundurus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Gastrodon: 333-392 (78.1 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) so if Thundurus is to be used as a wallbreaker then I think Grass Knot is the superior choice.

 

[Goootzinho]

Hi lately I was wondering if someone was able to explain the mechanics of Outrage ? I mean sometimes after a Protect the user is still locked and sometimes it resets, it is really frustrating and to understand the mechanics would allow me to stop progressing blindly in this scenario

 

[afuyeas]

Hi lately I was wondering if someone was able to explain the mechanics of Outrage ? I mean sometimes after a Protect the user is still locked and sometimes it resets, it is really frustrating and to understand the mechanics would allow me to stop progressing blindly in this scenario

Outrage turns reset if you hit a protect. So let's say you use Outrage to ko a pokemon and the next that comes in uses protect, there are 2 scenarios:

Either you get confused and Outrage stops, or you were meant to outrage three times and your opponent just gave you 2 more outrage because the counter just reset. In any case using protect on a second outrage will always allow your opponent to switch out afterwards making using protect on an Outrage a risky move.

 

[afuyeas]

Sorry for the double post but since I've talked about the nasty plot Thundurus I want to talk about its best partners too. Choice scarf Keldeo is the most obvious one because it absolutely loves when Celebi, Jellicent, Gastrodon and Slowking have been torn to shreds by Thundurus but since it's really obvious I am not writing this post for it. Instead I want to talk about some underrated pokemon on rain.

The first one is Azumarill:

Azumarill (F) @ Choice Band
Ability: Huge Power
EVs: 136 HP / 252 Atk / 120 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Aqua Jet
- Waterfall
- Superpower / Focus Punch
- Ice Punch

Azumarill is absolutely amazing once the water resists or immunities have been removed, I have been using it quite a bit and I've been loving it. It's absolutely terrifying for those psychic spam teams once Ferrothorn and Latios are weakened. In the endgame you just break Zam's sash and watch things drop in one aqua-jet while in the mid-game Waterfall 2hkos Reuniclus in rain. Azumarill is also the hardest Volcarona check in OU and is a really good asset to have against smurf as a result. Having Azumarill allows you to put rocks up with Ferrothorn and even if Volc comes in you just go to Azumarill then they either die to aqua-jet or switch out but now you have rocks on the field so it's a win-win. At worst you will get flame body burned but that's still not the end of the world and I will take it for Volc gone. Azumarill is also amazing because it's one of the few pokemon with choice specs Latios and Kyurem-black that can ohko dragon dance Dragonite from FULL:

252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 312-368 (96.5 - 113.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO

You don't know how many Dragonite tried to dd when facing Azumarill thinking their multiscale would save them and got ohko'd as punishment, underestimate the bunny you get the ko. The choice between Superpower and Focus Punch is mainly if you really want to ohko absolute max defense Ferrothorn on the switch but given that's a not really a thing Superpower will do the trick but I just want to mention it because the power is just absurd. The ev spread is customizable whether you want max hp, hp and defense or hp and special defense. The given spread is never 2hko'd by Alakazam's psychic from full so if you've been forced to lock on something else than aqua-jet you're not completely helpless at least. Azumarill being able to beat Alakazam one on one is really what makes it not just a worse scarf Keldeo and being able to 2hko Reuniclus while not being near dead at the end of the skirmish can really make a difference, not being weak to psychic is huge even though Keldeo is of course better in a vacuum. Please try the bunny, you won't regret it.

The other one is Garchomp, a specific set that I really like but that I've had a hard time fitting:

Garchomp @ Water Gem
Ability: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Aqua Tail

Remember when Gliscor, Landorus-T and Skarmory were good Garchomp checks? not anymore:

+2 252 Atk Water Gem Garchomp Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Skarmory in Rain: 328-387 (98.2 - 115.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Water Gem Garchomp Aqua Tail vs. 244 HP / 176 Def Landorus-Therian: 402-474 (105.7 - 124.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 Atk Water Gem Garchomp Aqua Tail vs. 244 HP / 248+ Def Gliscor: 364-430 (103.4 - 122.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO (the specially defensive variant thus gets thrashed even harder)

Thundurus-T can deal with those 3 but Thund definitely loves not having to take 25% to do so and Garchomp actually lures those three in, making it a more effective wallbreaker. Thundurus can thus focus on removing Jellicent, Celebi and Gastrodon it lures and that annoy chomp too. Garchomp is great on rain in general because it's a second Ttar switch in (if it can avoid switching into ice beam) and is notable for walling sunny day Magnezone so once your ferro goes down against dragmag you can send in Chomp and threaten the rest of the team as Latios certainly isn't switching into you. Garchomp allows you to respond with offensive pressure that cannot be abused afterwards for set up, unlike let's say locking into secret sword with Keldeo to revenge Magnezone and giving Dragonite a free dd. Moreover the presence of Garchomp and Thundurus on your team will really make Rotom think twice about using volt switch. The reason I've had a hard time fitting Chomp on a team was because scarf Latios is just so incredible on rain and Garchomp doesn't go with it that well but I think as a replacement for Latios it is a great pick.

That's all I have to say, I think both Chomp and Azumarill are really underrated on rain teams at the moment. The Chomp-Keldeo-Thundurus trio has an excellent offensive synergy and I wanted to show that through this post.

 

[Caetano93]

And we have new dex entries for Thundurus-T and Xatu, and a small revamp on the BW king Latios with its new Colbur Berry set.

Again, ty a lot for the BW QCers for all the help.

 

[bw understander]

FEAR NOT. FOR THE UNDERSTANDER PROVIDES.

@ Chople Berry OR Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Taunt

the grass heatran is VERY strong with alakzam. you do not need lefties. taunt traps the fat water and ttar and rotomw AND reuniclus. no hp ice needed because magma storm traps the glisc. alakazam uses ice coverage now so that is less of a worry too. But this mon IS extremely powerful at breaking boring sand structures with tyranitar, ferrothorn, water, ground, psychic psychic. mainly he abuses the ferrothorn and celebi AND removes the water. taunt is most important.

spikes

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Ice Beam

Heatran @ Chople Berry
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Taunt

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave

Skarmory @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Fighting Gem
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Superpower
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn

here we use the chople berry and more speed to defeat tyranitar. and it is good against alakazam because we are using the scarf tyranitar.

no sand spikes

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Signal Beam

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SpD
Lax Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Stealth Rock

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 48 Def / 208 SpD
Careful Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes

Jellicent @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 248 HP / 120 Def / 140 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA
- Magma Storm
- Earth Power
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Taunt

Latios (M) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Trick
- Recover

and here we use the leftovers because the team is slower. and more bulk and modest because we want to beat the fat pokemon without sands.

@ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 244 SpA / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Substitute
- Roost

he is like the kyurem subroost, except more powerful. he does not let ferrothorn OR skarmory win or get spikes. immune to spikes itself. beats tyranitar with no ice beam. AND he pressure the reunicles teams. if you are going to use hydreigon, please use him.

hydregion substitute

Hydreigon @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 244 SpA / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Flamethrower
- Substitute
- Roost

Tyranitar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Ice Beam
- Superpower

Slowking @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Flamethrower
- Dragon Tail
- Slack Off

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 248 HP / 28 Def / 232 Spe
Naive Nature
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Knock Off

Ferrothorn @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 204 SpD
Impish Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Spikes

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Thunder Wave

@ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 168 HP / 88 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Disable

yes yes here is another bad pokemon. but he has ok power with both Will o wisp AND dsiable. most people do not expect it and tyraniator does not want burn any way. but he stop gastrdon from recover and win like that. or stop reunicles from psyhic. or exca from iron head. and the tentacruel from scald. much utility.

genger

Gengar @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 168 HP / 88 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Substitute
- Will-O-Wisp
- Disable

Alakazam @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Signal Beam

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 88 HP / 232 SpA / 188 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Hydro Pump
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Trick

Ferrothorn @ Chople Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Power Whip
- Knock Off
- Thunder Wave
- Spikes

Gliscor @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 244 HP / 184 SpD / 80 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Knock Off
- Stealth Rock
- Protect

Latios (M) @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Roar
- Recover

here we have the sr gliscor AND twave ferro. to not autolose to volcarona of course. edit: oh yes he is good against the psychics as well. Since genger is weak to them.

ah yes i have many more experiements in the builder coming ;)

we will see.

EDIT @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp
- Taunt
- Recover

ah yes i almost forgot the speedy jellicent. now you outspeed the tyraniatr and burn first. and rotom-w and night shade kills in 2 hit!. plus night shade is alos strong vs the tenta who want to spin. truly you do not need bulk. so immunity to attacks get you very far with him. Make sure he is the color you like as well. Of course the pink one is best! but that is not available because smogon does not like the women. but of course pink is not just for women! it is for everyone!!! really the smogon is racist for them all. But especially the women.

 

[Excal]

Jellicent (M) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Water Absorb
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Night Shade
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover

Huge fan of this set, especially on faster-paced teams like the skarm hazard stack offensive sands. I've always found Jellicent to be really mediocre when it comes to consistently spinblocking sand force Excadrill, but this set lets you do it consistently at least short-term. Given BW's more offensive and fast-paced nature I think this set can be applied to a lot of different teams. I find it to be more effective than Sitrus Berry for example. Another neat feature of this set is that while holding Balloon it beats SD Facade Gliscor by taunting it and night shading it down. It can abuse choice-locked EQs and it's also pretty nifty at pivoting around Landorus. Strongly recommend trying him out, he enables a lot of really cool types of squads that regular Jellicent can't enable otherwise.

 

[A Welcome Guest]

Skarmory @ Salac Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Brave Bird
- Spikes
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Isn't Custap Berry usually better on Suicide Lead Skarmory?

 

[Caetano93]

Isn't Custap Berry usually better on Suicide Lead Skarmory?

No.
Most of the time Salac Berry let you outplay your opponent better.
Custab gives you 1 turn going first, Salac let you do this every time.
Custab is only better when you go to 1 HP to die after the BB recoil.

 

[A Welcome Guest]

No.
Most of the time Salac Berry let you outplay your opponent better.
Custab gives you 1 turn going first, Salac let you do this every time.
Custab is only better when you go to 1 HP to die after the BB recoil.

Oh thanks :)

 

[Caetano93]

Originally posted into the BW Discord server, but some players asked for a copy here.

Was doing some calcs with Jellicent recently and decided to share them, since a lot of players don't know what EVs to use on it.​

188 HP / 68 Def / 252 Spe Timid (Nascar Pringles) ​

• 188 HP is the minimum HP invest to survive Specs Latios DM and maximizing Recover (even HP) while not being a SR or Spikes (layer 2) number.
• 68 Def minimizes the chances to being KOed by 88 Adamant Ttar if WoW misses (25% with sand damage).
• 252 Timid makes Jellicent faster than Adamant Breloom, Timid Magnezone, and almost all Gliscor, defensive Jirachi, and SpDef Excadrill.

188 HP / 108 Def / 216 Timid (231 Speed) ​

• Never KOed by standard Ttar Crunch (even with sand damage) and only max Attack Scarf Ttar have a 6,5% chance to KO it with sand.
• 216 Timid makes Jellicent faster than Adamant Scizor, all utility Gliscor, almost all SpDef Excadrill and almost all Solar Beam Heatran.
• ITS THE IDEAL SPREAD FOR AIR BALLOON JELLICENT.

248 HP / 88 Def / 176 Timid (220 Speed) ​

• Never KOed by standard Ttar Crunch and max Attack Scarf Ttar even with sand damage.
• Better SpDef bulk for psyspam MUs.
• 176 Timid makes Jellicent faster than Modest Magnezone, some SpDef Excadrill, and all -Speed Jirachi.

248 HP / 128 Def / 136 Spe Timid (209 Speed) ​

• Maximizes defensive bulk for Ground spam while outspeeding all SpDef Rotom-W
• Its the minimal Speed a Jellicent should run. Outspeeding Rotom-W to Taunt / deal high damage with NShade is insanely important, especially if paired with a Skarmory / Gliscor.
• If you're sure that you will face a negative Speed IV Rotom-W, then less Speed EVs is possible, but make sure to never drop lower than 199 to outspeed all Politoed and Milotic (248 HP / 96 Def / 172 Spe Bold in this case).

 

[BKC]

Зона (Magnezone) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]

DragMag teams still need Air Balloon Magnet Rise to beat Drill, but on sand teams, this is much, much better. Specs still beats rain Ferro in 2 turns and has two major advantages over Sunny Day; one, it takes out non-rain Ferro in one. Two, it is a genuine threat in its own right. I've come to dislike how useless the SDay set is against anything that isn't a trap target, but with the Flash Cannon's extra power and the absolute wallop it packs with the Specs boost, this Zone is genuinely challenging for many teams to switch into safely. Despite some misplays, shawyu's W1 game was a great example of how much more threatening this Zone is than its SDay counterpart.

Gamageroge (Seismitoad) @ Leftovers
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP
Bold Nature
- Scald
- Protect
- Knock Off
- Refresh

The only Toad I'd use. Unbelievably irritating. Protect is required to fully offset the damage of a Refreshed burn from Rotom and the Leftovers gain is massively helpful in all situations, especially against guys like Keldeo and Thundurus. Scald and Knock Off are both key to cripple as many Pokemon as possible. It's not a bad Stealth Rocker but I'd sooner fit Earthquake for Sub Keld/Rachi somewhere, and I still vastly prefer these moves. It's mostly best with Defense EVs but some SpDef is key so you don't automatically drop to Thund's Focus Blasts.

Keldin' Around (Keldeo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Protect
- Scald
- Secret Sword / Toxic

Sub Keld is great to destroy Tentacruel. Tect Keld is great to destroy everything / Latios. Tect's last move is also often up for grabs, and when you use one you often miss the other, so ABR and I decided to combine them, both for maximum utility in-game utility and Scald burn abuse. Good on both sand and rain. We also tried Toxic over Secret Sword for maximum irritation on rain - it's not necessary, but seeing as Ferrothorns are guaranteed to exchange Knocks early on, it's definitely a good choice, especially as Poison Heal Breloom has taken a hit.

Liquid Sword (Keldeo) @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Protect / Toxic / Aqua Jet

Scald Keld is great, but can sometimes be irritated by lack of power - not only does it start getting walled by Reuniclus, but it comes up way short against SpDef Glisc and Skarm. Not being able to OHKO Thundurus in rain, often even with SR, is also pretty bad. Luckily, we've established its moveset is flexible, and Keld has also been known to pull off dual Water STAB well; slot in Hydro Pump and problem solved.

Terrarizer (Terrakion) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt
- Close Combat
- Earthquake

Ever since BW2's release, my problem with lead Terrakion has been how massively unreliable it is against Tentacruel. Not anymore, as EQ absolutely slams Tenta, which often doesn't run any Defense EVs at all anymore (needs to run lots of Speed and prefers remainder in SpDef to help with rain's Latios issue). You don't really need Rock STAB on HO and this is huge in flipping a key matchup on its head - weatherless teams famously hate rain in large part thanks to Tenta, and here is Terrak's advantage over Garchomp: it lures and crushes it, which opens the door for your Volcarona later. This lets Terrak freely take advantage of another key tool it has over Garchomp: Taunt. Even if you think that SR Gliscor or Landorus is going to U-turn on you, you can just safely SR and then follow it up with Starmie if need be - the point is that they are dissuaded from SRing turn 1, whereas they know they have free rocks against Chomp.

Chapignon (Breloom) @ Grass Gem
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Superpower

SD Loom is terrifying in general, and I particularly like Grass Gem to seal the deal at +2 against several types of sand (Gliscor / Landorus / Reuniclus) while also grabbing a free KO against rain early on with SR up - Tenta can't pivot in and Spin, as it has a decent chance of being KOed even by two hits, while Latios is either put in Mach Punch range or straight up KOed. The Gem's power is absolutely brutal since it powers up every hit.

Ominously (Breloom) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Adamant Nature
- Drain Punch
- Focus Punch
- Protect
- Facade / Seed Bomb

Focus Loom is great, but sometimes you need your Loom to both threaten that massive hit while also remaining healthy; even with Protect, Sub can be counteractive in this regard, especially in Sand (and if you avoid this by not using Sub then you're playing with 3 moves). So, make your Focus Punches naked, and stay healthy with powerful, invested Drain Punches, which also ensure you can threaten Excadrill 1-on-1 without needing a Sub up.

Under Your Spell (Breloom) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Careful Nature
- Drain Punch
- Toxic
- Protect
- Worry Seed

Toxic Loom is awesome, but is frustratingly blanked by Gliscor and Reuniclus...until now.

Sweet Virginia (Celebi) @ Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Recover
- Psychic

Capitalizes on Bi's defensive utility by setting up offensive opportunities for its more powerful teammates while still doing Celebi things - eating up Keldeo, Thundurus, Breloom, even Latios - defensively.

Kojondo (Mienshao) @ Life Orb
Ability: Inner Focus Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 20 SpA / 236 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 30 Spe
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- High Jump Kick
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Not my set - McM used this a long, long time ago - but it's been long forgotten and is better now than ever. Shao was a huge threat a few years ago, then died out once Protect started getting spammed on everything. This set brutally turns the tables on such strategies, making itself and its teammates even more threatening, abusing not just Protect but slow answers like bulky Psychics (and there aren't any faster Pokemon that safely switch into Shao). That LO HJK is as vicious as ever if you can launch it successfully, and this set ensures that you can.

Circumradiant Dawn (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Baton Pass
- Taunt

Notice a trend here. Capitalizes on the bulky Pokes that come into Glisc. Lots of options for EVs.

The Cardinal Sin (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
- Earthquake
- Protect
- U-turn
- Taunt

I didn't intend for this set to be the same one Ace Matador recommended nine years ago, but here we are. This season, Finch demonstrated TurnGlisc was excellent, and I liked it a lot. The last move has a lot of flexibility, and TauntGlisc is particularly forgotten again - shutting down Spikers and turning them into a free U-turn can be massive for momentum when the Pokes you're bringing in are as threatening as the Spikes-supported Psychics this Glisc should be paired with. Goes a long way in matchups against opposing bulky sand - shutting down a Reuniclus' Recover attempts makes it a lot easier to trap with Tar if they stay in afterwards (Jellicent's a great partner to blank Ice Focus variants). Taunt's also nice against rain Ferrothorn - blank its early hazard attempts, then easy momentum, making Glisc actually quite useful in starting you off on the right foot against rain.

Randorosu (Landorus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
- Earthquake
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Knock Off
- U-turn / Stealth Rock / Protect

Helmet Skarm can be a real pain for Lando Exca stuff. However, Skarm is forced to face Lando, so you Knock the Helmet, and suddenly the bird is completely dominated by Exca. Knock is also massively helpful against Waters.

Holy Motors (Rotom-Wash) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Will-o-Wisp / Hidden Power [Ice]

Awesome Poke. Cripples something (particularly ruinous for Ferro, ensuring Excadrill can easily, permanently keep hazards off), or has crucial Speed depending on your team/how you want to play it. Lategame, its Volt Switch is great against Zam, and it's surprisingly strong when cleaning up with Hydro Pump, too.

Atomizer (Rotom-Wash) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 40 HP / 252 SpA / 216 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Will-O-Wisp / HP Ice / HP Fire (requires 4 extra Speed EVs)

Rotom used to actually be quite threatening, and that's been forgotten - however, it can be remembered with investment and TBolt/Thunder, which is particularly nice for shattering unsuspecting Politoed and Tentacruel. It does great things with bulk, yes, but it gets worn down pretty quickly after the start of a battle, and thus the power/Speed helps you get more out of it in such scenarios, especially when its bulk doesn't do much for it after a few hits. It's particularly nice for doing more against HO than just switching into Starmie - now it can actually check Scizor and Breloom!

Borutorosu (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- U-turn
- Focus Blast / Grass Knot

U-turn Thund not only maintains pressure on any switchin, removing the need to predict how they're going to try and pivot around it, but also utterly ruins the "safe" Latios switchin, which is key in staving off the most dangerous Poke for rain to face.

Voltlos (Thundurus-Therian) (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Volt Absorb
Modest / Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Protect
- Toxic

Tect Thund is great in its own right, and this set takes that a step further with Toxic to once again ruin Latios - can't stress enough how important this is - while destroying Gastrodon as well. Toxicing Tyranitar is also great, and this can create some awkward positions for Celebi.

Sazandora (Hydreigon) @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 56 HP / 252 SpA / 200 Spe OR 136 HP / 252 SpA / 120 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Draco Meteor
- U-turn
- Dark Pulse
- Dragon Pulse

Like Scarf Latios, but with U-turn - great for momentum, much much better against Zam - and no Pursuit weakness. Really cool on balance/Spikes teams that don't need backup against Keldeo. Modest is definitely viable if you're not trying to catch ScarfLands with it, the power boost is pretty insane.

Tri repetae (Hydreigon) @ Leftovers
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 56 SpD / 200 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Dark Pulse
- Earth Power
- Fire Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]

A wallbreaker that is difficult to switch into, doesn't get worn down by sand, is immune to Spikes, doesn't fear Pursuit, AND threatens the hell out of Reuniclus? Yes, please.

Nattorei (Ferrothorn) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
Adamant / Brave Nature
- Stealth Rock / Gyro Ball
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Knock Off

Ferrothorn often operates without Leftovers anyway, given how it exchanges in Knock wars any time it faces an opposing Ferrothorn. It also gets burned a lot - Rotom will usually lead off and cripple it for the rest of the game, and then Exca will have an easy time removing hazards, making it difficult for the rain team to exert pressure against the sand. This is made all the more problematic by the fact the rain team has nothing better than Ferro to deal with Rotom. All Ferro winds up doing in such matchups is Knocking Rotom and Exca's Leftovers and hoping that leads to something with Thundurus; if it gets lucky, it might maintain SR. Not anymore - now you shrug the burn off and start 6-5, and are in a much better position to keep hazards to boot. Also excellent if you're running Mamoswine / Tornadus in the back.

This is its primary use, but the invested Power Whip is valuable in several other situations. It hits really hard - you really slam offensive Excadrill and do an absolute ton to Tyranitar, often killing it if it's not at full health. This is why I prefer max Attack - it helps get the most out of such scenarios, though there is definitely merit to using just enough Attack to KO Rotom, then adding some Defense / SpDef to take a little less from Exca EQ and some other hits like Keldeo Sword. A bit of SpDef helps with Lati / Thund / Torn as well; however, you only truly need 4 SpDef, as that is what you need to always survive Sunny Day Zone from full.

It's nice against rain, too - you have leeway in switching into Scald thanks to the Lum. (You usually won't maintain it past that, since you're going to exchange Knocks with other Ferro.) Tentacruel gets shellacked as well, and Thundurus certainly isn't getting up any Subs against you. If you have another SR Poke like Chomp or ScarfLando on the team, it's definitely worth using Gyro Ball to smack Latios / Breloom / Dragonite / the occasional Tornadus.

La jetée (Latios) (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SDef / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Psyshock
- Trick

This is not for use on every type of team. You would not be entirely wrong if you were to call this overkill. However, if you can make up for Latios' Speed in other ways - there are a few approaches, the most obvious being a dual Lati team - the power is simply stupefying, and its unstoppably forceful nature is just what you need to set up your other Psychic(s) in the back (or your rain). I like Psyshock even on non-Modest Latios, btw - you don't spam it against sand, but it is similarly threatening to Dragon Pulse against rain and comes with the incredible benefit of easily KOing Tentacruel even if you've Tricked your Specs away, which is particularly useful given how rain often uses Tenta as a psuedo-check.

 

[peng]

I've been really enjoying building in BW for the last few months, so thought I'd share some of the techs I've used recently and the teams I used them on. There's nothing too crazy here, mostly just some tweaks to current metagame playstyles that I quite like. I'll save the mad stuff until after my next run of tour games.

1. Psyshock Alakazam

Giovanni Giorgio (Alakazam) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Grass Knot
Full team here

Alakazam has horrible 4MSS syndrome, often having to choose between coverage options (HP Ice, GKnot, Signal Beam) or crutch anti-sweeper options (Thunder Wave, Encore). With the recent increase in Volcarona usage at the top level, a lot of Alakazam teams are forced to surrender coverage in order to afford room for Thunder Wave to keep it in check, which means giving up on a Hidden Power or Grass Knot, therefore making Alakazam a less effective cleaner.

Although only a minor change, using Psyshock over Psychic turns 4-attack Alakazam into a makeshift Volcarona check even after Quiver Dances. This means you can skip the need for Thunder Wave and keep all your coverage. Psyshock also has some upsides such as cleanly OHKOing the most common Tentacruel sets, as well as hitting SDef Politoed and SDef Rotom-Wash far harder. Note that I think Grass Knot and Hidden Power [Ice] are important here, as the downside of Psyshock over Psychic is that your STAB now hits things like Landorus-T, Gastrodon, and Jellicent far less hard. I wouldn't be trying to use this without the back-up coverage.

Calcs for Psychic (bad):
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. +1 72 HP / 0 SpD Volcarona: 97-115 (29.4 - 34.9%)
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 72 SpD Tentacruel: 242-288 (66.4 - 79.1%)
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 248 HP / 232+ SpD Rotom-Wash: 106-126 (34.9 - 41.5%)
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 196+ SpD Politoed: 115-136 (29.9 - 35.4%)

Calcs for Psyshock (good!):
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 72 HP / 0 Def Volcarona: 192-226 (58.3 - 68.6%)
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tentacruel: 384-452 (105.4 - 124.1%)
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Rotom-Wash: 127-151 (41.9 - 49.8%)
252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 60 Def Politoed: 159-187 (41.4 - 48.6%)

2. Latias in general

Latias @ Colbur Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Surf
- Roar / Thunder Wave / Refresh / Healing Wish
- Recover
Full team here

Latias usage has, understandably, fallen off a cliff ever since BW was current gen. For a long time, Life Orb 3 attack Latias was a legitimate option even in a metagame where Latios was available, purely just for the extra bulk against things like Keldeo. I think as players got better, we began to appreciate more and more how important the extra power over Latios is in an actual gamestate, practically making it more difficult to trap/take advantage of and therefore a better real-life Keldeo answer anyway. This has limited Latias' role to either a defensive Calm Minder, a niche Choice Scarfer with Healing Wish, or a viable offensive option only when paired with Latios itself.

However, I think with the discovery of Colbur Latios, we have to re-visit Latias as an option again. Colbur Latios is a fantastic set that allows it to survive Pursuit once, and there is no reason why this same approach cannot be applied to Latias also. With Colbur Berry, Latias' main downside compared to her brother, the ease of Pursuiting such a piss weak Pokemon, is now overcome, and the opportunity cost of using Latias is partially offset. The trade-off is that Latias is significantly bulkier on the special side even without investment, making it a far more robust answer to the likes of Keldeo, Thundurus, as well as being a better check to the likes of Alakazam than Latios could ever hope to be. This really comes into play on teams that really struggle to fit in robust water resists e.g. the team I used here is an adapted version of a SPL12 Wolfpack team, that would normally use Latios as a sole water resist - less than ideal. Switching Latios to Latias here goes a long way to keep Keldeo at bay, and is only possible thanks to the emergence of Colbur Berry. Teams that rely very heavily on Ferrothorn + Latios as the only Keldeo switch-ins are also likely to appreciate the additional bulk of Latias in that slot.

I don't expect Latias to overtake Latios anytime soon, but I think now more than ever, the red twin is a very considerable option on Psyspam teams, even when just running the exact same like-for-like Colbur sets. I've tried all of Roar, Thunder Wave, Refresh, and Healing Wish, and all of them are good. Refresh in particular makes it really difficult for Rain teams to put damage on you.

The big difference is that the SAtk loss still sucks in situations that aren't vs Tyranitar. For example, Hidden Power Fire is a great option on Colbur Latios because it hits both Skarmory and Ferrothorn super hard and therefore can limit hazard stacking. However, Latias is too weak to do this effectively, meaning that you're likely committed to Spike-immune partners or slapping Excadrill alongside.

3. Reuniclus-therian

Reuniclus @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 176 SpA / 16 SpD
Modest Nature
IVs: 2 Atk / 30 Def
- Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Recover
Full team here

Same team here as the one above, a second fun set. I had put together a fairly basic triple Psychic team with Latias / Reuniclus / Alakazam, well supported with sand, spikes, and a ton of paralysis support (Secret Power Skarm, shoutout to the mad lads on SPL12 Wolfpack) to weaken their shared counters. The idea had always been to use lots of paralysis support to enable Life Orb Reuniclus, with Secret Power Skarmory in particular paralyzing Excadrill if it dared to try and spin in the 1v1. The first version of the team, with Psy/Fight/Ice coverage Reuniclus, had a really tough time making damage stick on Skarmory, so I shifted across to this Thundurus-esque set with Thunder over Psychic. I cannot deny that accuracy is an issue here, but the sheer coverage of Electric/Fight/Ice coverage is absolutely insane vs a lot of modern Sand and Rain cores, and the added paralysis chance of Thunder is nice also. Long story short, there are very few essential moveslots in BW, and STAB-less Life Orb Reun is defo viable on the right team.

4. Scarf Moxie Salamence

Salamence @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Dragon Claw
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast
Full team here

Obviously Scarf Salamence is not a new invention, but its been insignificant for quite a long time. However, I think in SMURF NATION metagame, Salamence has a lot going for it. Scarf Salamence is the slayer of Smurf - the only way they can beat it is to have both Extremespeed Dragonite and Scizor still healthy, or to prock a fortunate Flame Body burn. Thankfully, nobody is running max speed Volcarona at the moment so Scarf Salamence even initiates a countersweep against +1 Volc.

I think Magnezone + Scarf Salamence DragMag teams are unironically good in current BW, probably the best way of running DragMag right now. However, the team I used here is Smurf-esque, just using Salamence over Dragonite and a couple of set changes. ChainChomp over the standard SD Chomp, along with SD Fight Gem Breloom both terrorise Skarmory. Pursuit Scizor (with a lot of bulk) breaks Alakazam Sash to enable Salamence further. Apart from that, standard Smurfing. Would definitely recommend people start trying out things like Salamence and Gyarados, which are true Smurf killers whilst still being solid against other archetypes.

 

[peng]

Sorry for double post but I'm here to make Psyspam in BW even dumber than it already is

Reuniclus @ Sticky Barb
Ability: Magic Guard
- Trick / Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Focus Blast
- Recover
The 6 I used:

Looks like a gimmick, definitely not a gimmick. Sticky Barb Reuniclus is absolutely brutal on Psyspam teams. Reuniclus has a wide range of checks (Chople Tyranitar, Excadrill, SDef Skarmory, Celebi, SDef Gliscor, SDef Jirachi, Encore Politoed, Trick Scarf Latios, Scizor, Jellicent, and so on) - Psyspam teams typically base themselves around some kind of sub-optimal Reuniclus such as Life Orb, CM BoltBeam, CM Fight+Ice, Rocky Helmet etc which beat specific checks to enable Alakazam in the late-game. However, all of these lures trade one match-up for another (e.g. Fight+Ice Reuniclus shreds sand balance but clunks into Politoed/Jellicent), resulting in often specific and linear win conditions once your set is revealed.

Sticky Barb Reuniclus cripples every single common switch-in, without fail. Tyranitar loses Chople Berry and now takes 12.5% per turn, making it easily mopped up by Alakazam. Skarmory and Jirachi can no longer sit in front of Alakazam/Latios and Recover. Gliscor has its poison heal nullified, and you can potentially trick a Toxic Orb onto something else late-game. Excadrill can now no longer outlast the Spikers on Psyspam. Politoed is crippled and the weather war is won easily. Its very common for teams to rely on full cores of Pursuit, spinners, specially defensive steels, encore/taunt, thunder wavers etc and need all of these to beat Psyspam teams, and as soon as one of these cogs is removed the match-up becomes incredibly difficult. Sticky Barb Reun gives you a blanket, one-off chance to cripple any part of their anti-Psyspam machinery and then build a game plan around that (e.g. if Ttar is crippled, they lose their best Zam answer. If Exca is crippled, you get Spikes all day every day).

Why Sticky Barb and not Flame Orb? There are several reasons. Firstly, Sticky Barb does not "activate" on Magic Guard Pokemon, therefore keeping the lure intact until you choose to Trick. Secondly, Flame Orb would fail into Pokemon that already have a status condition, therefore whiffing against Gliscor and also countering your own paralysis or poison-based strategies, as well as being useless against opposing Volcarona and Heatran. Thirdly, Stick Barb does not need to be transferred by Trick - if a Pokemon without an item makes contact with Reuniclus, including the move Knock Off, the Sticky Barb is transferred to them. This can come in clutch when paired with your own Knock Off Ferrothorn or Gliscor, and commonly allows you to cripple Excadrill or Tentacruel as they use Rapid Spin! Further, offensive Pokemon with single-use items (Yache / Lum Dragonite, Fight Gem Breloom, Rock Gem Terrakion) can have their sweep ruined if they make contact, giving Reun a good use in HO match-ups where it sometimes struggles to have an influence. Another small intricacy is that Sticky Barb does not alert the opponent when it is transferred, only when it takes effect at the end of the turn - as a result, a Pokemon that picks up Sticky Barb by U-turning on Reuniclus will not know until is it sent back in again, allowing you to make longer-term gameplans based around future damage you opponent has no idea about. This often comes into effect often with things like pivot Gliscor and the occasional Xatu, which is otherwise a bit of a Psyspam killer.

 

[A Welcome Guest]

Keldeo @ Leftovers
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roar
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump

I find that the 4th slot on Leftovers Keldeo can go to pretty much any move, and because of the amount of switches Keldeo forces, I decided to put Roar. It's especially nasty with Spikes so you can phaze in something like a Tyranitar and put it in more comfortable range for something like a Latios. You could also experiment with other items like a gem, but I generally like the longevity that Lefties brings.