BW OU Tiering Changes - A Proposal

[ABR]

I would like to propose several changes to the BW OU metagame/banlist, and subsequently that all of them be handled with immediate + unilateral council action, without need for larger suspects/votes. The proposed changes are as follows.

1) Ban Shadow Tag
2) Ban Baton Pass
3) Ban Chlorophyll, Swift Swim

1) This is the only one of the bunch that requires attention due to metagame impact. Like Arena Trap leading up to its ban, Shadow Tag has been seeing an increase in usage, mainly in the form of Gothitelle. The set circulating is Trick/Psychic/HP Ice + 1, which either Tricks walls to cripple them, Psychics pokemon like Keldeo/Amoong/Tenta, or HP Ices grounds like Garchomp/Lando-T/Gliscor. The arguments for banning this are extremely similar to those for Arena Trap, and Arena Trap is banned in all of gens 5/6/7 while Shadow Tag is already banned in 6/7 (and was banned before arena in those). Logistically, I say this can be done unilaterally by the council as a mere extension of the more democratic Arena Trap process - if an inferior ability (only trapping grounded pokes) can be deemed uncompetitive then the superior ability (trapping everything) can by extension be deemed banworthy.

2) The current complex BP clause in place limits you to 1 BP user per team, and prevents you from passing speed + another stat simultaneously. To put it clearly, I am not arguing that BP is a current issue in the BW OU metagame. I am arguing that this clause is unnecessarily complex and that a simple ban of the move Baton Pass can take its place. Currently, BP is not just rare, but rather entirely nonexistant. We lose absolutely nothing by simplifying this ban. What we gain is a more simple banlist. If you can have an equal metagame state either way, except opt for a more simple banlist, why not take it? I think BW OU is ready to clean up like gen 6/7 have. Other BP bans have been handled by councils unilaterally, and this can be too.

3) Currently, Sand Rush is banned as a whole, individual ability. Sun and Rain are handled with complex bans including the combinations of Drought + Chlorophyll and Drizzle + Swift Swim. Like with BP, I am not arguing that these weather abilities are currently broken or problematic for the metagame. Currently, Chloro sees absolutely 0 usage, and Swift Swim (Kingdra) is close to 0 but not as fully dead as Chloro. From a pros and cons perspective, I am proposing that we gain the simplicity and unification of the weather bans (making sun/rain bans closer to the updated sand one, AND removing a complex ban in the process), with exceedingly minimal metagame impact. And well, even if there is a bit of an impact in removing Kingdra, I'd argue that's closer to a good thing than a bad thing that it doesn't have the chance to be used against rain. This wouldn't be a new ban, just a revised definition of a current ban, and can thus be handled unilaterally by council.

 

[Lavos]

1) Shadow Tag is a better ability than Arena Trap so right off the bat it feels weird to only have the weaker version banned. However, I support the original justification for this. Dugtrio was a far greater terror than Gothitelle or Wobbuffet will ever be. So even though it rubs me the wrong way I don't think this is substantial reason to extend the ban. Additionally I don't think Goth's rise in usage necessarily means it's all that good. It targets a very select group of Pokemon and attempts to remove them, which rings of Dugtrio, but it's not that simple. Goth has a harder time removing most of the things it wants to trap, and in the case of HP Ice to catch Lando/Chomp it has to worry about potential bulky spreads and Yache. It doesn't hit very hard even with max investment so it's not like Keldeo or whatever can't even switch in for fear of being eliminated. Sash Dug was particularly oppressive because 99% of the time it would remove Tyranitar and/or Heatran to clear the way for a Sun or Rain-based clean sweep. With Goth the percentage isn't nearly that high, about the only thing it consistently gets rid of is Reuniclus and I wonder if that's even a bad thing considering what that Pokemon routinely does to the tier. I'm concerned that your line of reasoning is "ban by extension" and not "ban by context" because I firmly believe that the latter is how we should operate within a tiering framework, especially when it comes to old gens. At the end of the day I'd keep Shadow Tag around until Goth becomes a real nuisance instead of a cool tech that crops up every now and then to counter modern trends.

2) I'm glad you concede that the current state of BP in Gen 5 doesn't even come close to broken, but I think you underrate how useful BP can be with the right sort of team. Not saying it is or will ever be "common" but it does have a niche. And what we're really evaluating is whether the simplicity we gain from changing the rules outweighs the loss of some potential creativity and innovation. Without getting into why I absolutely loathe the "metagameification" of Pokemon, I don't understand the hype around making our rules the easiest possible to digest when literally nothing else about this game is simple. If this is purportedly for the benefit of the "new player" then I trust that any 12-year-old out there can read the error message in the teambuilder and adapt accordingly.

3) Similar to BP, the concepts of simplification and unification as pertaining to the ruleset of a particular format on an online Pokemon simulator only exist to the extent that you believe they exist, and I don't think caving in to OCD tendencies about everything being parallel across clauses and generations is worth the sacrifice of potentially interesting and valuable strategies. And if you're going to spam Rain in this tier then you deserve to run into Kingdra and friends every once in a while. Again, functionally the decisions on these rules are going to matter very little, but the philosophy behind the decisions is something worth discussing.

This will come down to an ideological difference in what we individually value in tiering, so I don't expect to change your mind ABR, but hopefully this provides some insight to how the other half think. Curious to see what the council has to say.

 

[The Grand Babido]

1) opposing this; Gothitelle is so weak that it doesn't even necessitate counterplay a lot of the time. I'd argue that it actually requires a lot of forethought and precision to get it to do what you want it to do - which isn't even necessarily net a KO, but maybe just incapacitate something.

Dugtrio and Magnezone, especially Magnezone, generally get multiple attempts at a trap. Gothitelle doesn't because it has to deal with sand, Stealth Rock, Tyranitar, U-turn and also its terrible stat spread and typing.

Please show me some games where it has been overbearing. I genuinely believe Gothitelle encourages lateral thinking from both parties (always a welcome change in BW). Even should it do its job, it very rarely takes the game away from the other player.

Sidebar: Why is Latios never under the microscope? This guy demands Tyranitar usage more than rain.

2) why?

3) why?

 

[dice]

i like how gothitelle sits in the meta right now. if we work with trapper logics, magnezone is more deserving of an axe than shadow tag. i personally appreciate how it expands teambuilding and enables stall. v subjective and not speaking to a universalized tiering policy.

don’t think baton pass is very relevant and think bp is cool.

i’m also all for unbanning sun fwiw and concretely placing bw as the weather tier

 

[Eo Ut Mortus]

Meta discussion aside, I also want to add that you can't really argue for a principle ban based on the current state of the metagame. Shadow Tag should've been banned earlier, not in response to the emerging Gothitelle trend, if it is broken on the principle that it is an (almost) strictly better version of Arena Trap. When Arena Trap was slated to be banned, I argued that Shadow Tag should've been banned alongside it for this reason; however, when the decision was made to preserve it, the aforementioned principle was effectively declared null and void. Going back on it is reactionary; we have to do things right. Similarly, although I dislike the complex Baton Pass clause, the fact that a universal simple ban has been resisted up to this point means that there isn't much basis for a single tiering council to enact the ban on their own, out of nowhere, without a call to simplify it across the board. I'm more in favor towards simplifying the Swift Swim clause because it's low impact, and we're far enough removed from the original tiering decision to the point where we can consider its revision in good faith.

In a vacuum, I would have simple banned all three of these things, and in the past and even sometimes as of late, I've resented just how many hoops we've jumped through with respect to tiering to just to preserve certain things. But if that is to change, I don't necessarily think it's best to start here, with the undoing of decisions that have been made relatively recently.

 

[LuckOverSkill]

1) No. Gothitelle is hard to use and adds depth to BW, both in battle and in the teambuilder, while Wobbuffett is extremely niche.

2) No. There is absolutely 0 reason to, and "making the banlist simpler" is not a reason. Simpler for who? Unless you can't read, it's written right there in the teambuilder that you can't bring more than 1 BPer per team, what's so complicated about that?

3) No. The current banlist is "complex" because of how poorly BW's tiering has been handled in the past 8 years. Fair, it was the first time we ever tried to actively tier a metagame, and BW is a wild beast compared to the later gens which are much more streamlined, mostly because of how weather functions.

BW has one problem that needs to be addressed: Latios. Until then, I will be adamantly against banning anything else, because of how ridiculous the whole situation is. Want to fix older gens? Actually work on fixing them, instead of instating policies no one needs and no one asked for, for the sake of a simplicity that never existed in the first place.

I'm all for freeing Chlorophyll and whatnot, but please, take a look at Latios first. It is the elephant in the room. It forces the absurd usage of Tyranitar and Ferrothorn, it abuses every single dominant element of BW (Rain, Spikes, Spikes Immunity, the overreliance on Tyranitar to try and deal with certain threats, plus it just so happen to be in the perfect speed tier to do all of this), and it enables Pokémon like Reuniclus and Alakazam.

 

[Shurtugal]

I havent played BW OU in sometime, but I clearly remember back in 2012 that preserving drypass was important because it allows Celebi to escape Pursuit Tyranitar. Is it really important to ban Baton Pass and deny Celebi this safe escape option from Tyranitar to fix to be what seems a non-existant issue to satisfy some tier policy?

 

[ABR]

BKC Eo Ut Mortus Finchinator Jirachee M Dragon dice

The inaction up to this point is quite off-putting but fortunately we still have time to do what needs to be done. I implore you, the councilmen, to acknowledge your responsibility here and act as your roles allow you to. Shadow Tag's (gothitelle's) presence since this thread was made has been overwhelmingly negative to anyone who has been keeping up with the metagame.

As for the logistics, it is within your power to enact this via council vote if you want to merely extend the prior Arena Trap ban. Even if there are unhealthy, metagame-dependent undertones of Shadow Tag, that can still be your internal reasoning just not a necessary factor to do it via policy update. If you want any other justification for this method then look at all of the Baton Pass related decisions in the past.

Sincerely,
A BW Player

 

[dice]

u literally didnt respond to our posts and said there is inaction lol

 

[McMeghan]

Personally I've always said that Shadow Tag should get the boot if it ever gets abused the right way, because the ability is just unhealthy and its proven times and times again, although in later generations, that it eventually is too much/not fun for anyone to play against and gets banned as a result.

I don't believe I have to get into details why this ability needs to go when it took months or argumentation to finally be dealt with in ORAS/SM, for the same reasons it should leave BW.

There have been an outbreak in Gothitelle teams lately, and while this might be a quick reaction to an arising problem, I am 100% sure that we'll be just losing time by waiting to ban this ability. I'd really, and truely appreciate if we get rid of it asap.

 

[z0mOG]

just remove reun and nobody will even NEED TO use goth

 

[Finchinator]

This is my fully transparent account of the situation and my thoughts on it.

I, as a member of the BW council and one of the more outspoken and active BW players, believe that Shadow Tag should be banned as quickly as possible.

I will also admit that back when we voted on Arena Trap, we should have grouped Shadow Tag with it and part of the fault for that lies on my shoulders. For that much, I apologize. This "mess" is, in part, my responsibility and I am doing my best to try and do what is best for the metagame moving forward.

As McMeghan said, there has been an outbreak of Gothitelle recently. Specifically, this has been evident in Smogon Tour weekly live tours and BW Cup. This was not the case back when we banned Arena Trap, but it did feel like it would inevitably happen and you can make the argument for banning it seeing as it is just a better Arena Trap after all. Again, I am sorry that this was not done before and take the fault for it.

While I am in favor of banning Shadow Tag immediately (through council vote/agreement or whatever possible to enact this), I also acknowledge that doing so would require a strong consensus among the other members of the council. I am not an individual who can just ban things with the snap of my fingers, nor is BKC (or anyone in old generations, for that matter). People seem to think otherwise, but this is very much not the case.

tangent

Quite frankly, the more I think of it, the more I wonder what reliance on Old Generation Councils our community truly should have. There are no true, singled-out "leaders" of the respective councils (I may personally act as one in BW, but I was never appointed and determining how much power I truly have always feels awkward). The guidelines are dated on some matters, nonexistent on other matters. The members of some councils are completely inactive or out-of-the-loop (for instance, Jirachee does not have a line in the chat since the 12th of August, when he posted a thumbs up emoji). There are no clear "right" or "wrong" approaches on a lot of things. I do not know what to make of all of this.

I have people who tell me they think we should remove people from the council if they do not agree with banning something like Shadow Tag. I have people who tell me that they think we should not act on Shadow Tag as they deem it not worth touching. I am receptive to all of this -- my PMs are always open, but I do not really have the resources, the council support, and/or the justification to act in a strong fashion on all of these matters and people need to learn to understand that before pointing fingers.

Anyway, I do not know how much longer I intend to do "this" -- with "this" being "leading" the BW council. I am questioning the entire infrastructure for old generation tiering at this point, so my hesitation to continue should not be too surprising I suppose. This isn't some dumb loose threat or quit post as I am still here after all, but I am a bit fed up with the entire "process".

With that said, it seems that a couple of the parties that are opposed to having an in-house, council vote on it without consulting the community seem to be ok with having a formal vote once top 8 of BW Cup is hit. That way, they can have the input of a larger pool of people and make sure they all participated in recent tournaments as well.

I do not find this to be ideal because we have: WCOP, STour playoffs, Classic Playoffs, and the final stages of BW Cup going on officially as well as the start of the BW OU Global Championship unofficially (I know most of you probably do not care about this) in the coming weeks. I also believe that the vote will lead to a ban. That means that the practical consequences of having a vote then instead of outright banning it are keeping Gothitelle for 2 more rounds of BW Cup, the entire qualification stage (r1) of WCOP, and the first round or two of STour playoffs. This feels very unfortunate to me as a BW player as it greatly limits how I prepare and which teams/styles I deem to be ok. Maybe others feel differently, I do not know.

However, if other members of the council do not feel the same about banning it now, then there is nothing I can do besides tell them my opinion (I have) as to why I feel differently. That is ok. Sometimes, things do not go according to your personal agenda in life and you have to accept that. People have different opinions and oftentimes they are justified. We need to stop pointing fingers and just deal with what is realistic. Unless there is some overnight change in stances, we will probably just conduct the vote once we hit top 8 (~8 days from now) since that seems to be when they are ok with it. I do not agree, but I have done what I could and there do not seem to be other agreements in place.

 

[Teclis]

hi!

From what I have read, you who posted here to plead for a Shadow Tag ban - so far ABR, McMeghan, and Finchinator - are adamant that it should be removed from BW Overused as soon as possible, mostly using the reasoning that it was banned in the most recent generations for reasons (being uncompetitive by the tiering policy definition I think?) which also apply to BW.

However I must admit that as an outsider and someone who is both less concerned by BW and less skilled in the tier than you, it feels a bit strange. If there is something I realized when I first got into the tier a few years ago - once again, at a lesser level than yours - it is how different from XY (which was the current generation at that time) it was, with brand new mechanics and a brand new metagame for me. This is largely why I appreciated the tier so much.

Back in the day, the Shadow Tag Suspect Test saw, as McMeghan pointed out, pages and pages of debate and a lot of Suspect ladder games before its verdict. What you are proposing is to use it to remove this Ability from a tier which has nothing to do with what was gen6ou back then, simply because it has known a slight increase in usage in the past weeks? With such a reasoning we could justify banning Arena Trap (aka Dugtrio) from ADV Overused because it has a a decent usage and can be considered uncompetitive, though I don't think anyone who played the tier considers it banworthy.

Other players who I think have touched BW a bit have made good points about why Shadow Tag is not such a threat in BW OU right now and why banning it would be weird policy wise, especially Lavos and I completly agree with what he said here :

I'm concerned that your line of reasoning is "ban by extension" and not "ban by context" because I firmly believe that the latter is how we should operate within a tiering framework, especially when it comes to old gens. At the end of the day I'd keep Shadow Tag around until Goth becomes a real nuisance instead of a cool tech that crops up every now and then to counter modern trends.

Adding to this what dice said :

u literally didnt respond to our posts and said there is inaction lol

I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate more clarification about what I think can be an issue in our tiering system interpretation and an actual debate about why Shadow Ban suddenly has to be removed from BW rn rather than both sides just stating their arguments separately.

It is my first post in a policy thread and I hesitated a bit because I know I'm not exactly the most legitimate person to say such things. But whatever we say here, it is all because we want the best for Smogon's tiers so I guess there are no better place and time to ask questions and get replies from experienced players. Thanks for reading!

 

[Finchinator]

1) opposing this; Gothitelle is so weak that it doesn't even necessitate counterplay a lot of the time. I'd argue that it actually requires a lot of forethought and precision to get it to do what you want it to do - which isn't even necessarily net a KO, but maybe just incapacitate something.

Trappers do not necessitate counterplay because there is no real counterplay; once you are trapped, you are trapped. The 'counterplay' is either using teams that are not susceptible to trappers whatsoever or retroactively maneuvering around it, which compromises the use of one/multiple members of your team to begin with. The former puts a large strain on teambuilding, oftentimes invalidating specific bulkier cores among other things, and the latter means that a lot of games against Rain stall come down to getting a single double switch right or outright losing, which is ridiculous and uncompetitive in its own right.

You are right in saying that it does not even necessarily mean that Gothitelle is getting a kill (although oftentimes it can net a timely revenge kill, which can save a bulkier team from a fast and strong opposing threat), but the fact that it can cripple something with Trick is more than enough for stall teams to get by unscathed against a vast majority of the opposing teams you encounter right now. I think you may be misjudging the impact Gothitelle has on games (and as an extension of this, teambuilding once you accept the impact it could have) when properly emoloyed.

---

It targets a very select group of Pokemon and attempts to remove them, which rings of Dugtrio, but it's not that simple.

I really feel that it is that simple and even if Gothitelle was significantly worse, this is still not a healthy dynamic. I am aware that people then bring up the Magnezone extension of this line of logic (specifically bab and dice have) and I have no stance on that. If people see it as a problem, then I am willing to act accordingly, but this is not the case currently.

Goth has a harder time removing most of the things it wants to trap, and in the case of HP Ice to catch Lando/Chomp it has to worry about potential bulky spreads and Yache.

I feel like this is an incomplete view of what Gothitelle does. Oftentimes, it is not needed to remove these Pokemon from full, but rather after chip to where HP Ice can do the deal (Yache can be a nuisance to that, however, I agree -- these sets should be picking up traction rn). In addition to this, a vast majority of what Gothitelle does is forcibly cripple things that are needed for teams to hold together in the long haul or keep the field even in order to apply long-term pressure. The access to Trick combined with Shadow Tag in its own right is a large reason for why I believe Gothitelle has no place in OU and Shadow Tag should be removed.

With Goth the percentage isn't nearly that high, about the only thing it consistently gets rid of is Reuniclus and I wonder if that's even a bad thing considering what that Pokemon routinely does to the tier.

Nitpick here, but I am not fond of this implying 'broken checks broken' logic is ok. I do not personally find Reuniclus problematic atm, especially with the rise in Sand Force Excadrill, but even then this should not really be used as an argument to keep it, but rather as an argument to potentially take other action in the future to solve the problem instead of simply having one problem cover up for another.

I'm concerned that your line of reasoning is "ban by extension" and not "ban by context" because I firmly believe that the latter is how we should operate within a tiering framework, especially when it comes to old gens. At the end of the day I'd keep Shadow Tag around until Goth becomes a real nuisance instead of a cool tech that crops up every now and then to counter modern trends.

I agree with the first sentence in this segment -- I am personally acting given the practical impact Gothitelle has on teambuilding and gameplay in the current metagame. I believe it is banworthy due to being uncompetitive. I believe it is uncompetitive because of what it can remove and cripple with Shadow Tag and the moves it has at its disposal. I also believe this touches on a part of Eo's post about principal bans, but also he was not directly opposing so much as just laying out some general thoughts, so I will not be responding fully to that.

---

1) No. Gothitelle is hard to use and adds depth to BW, both in battle and in the teambuilder, while Wobbuffett is extremely niche.

What does that even mean? How does something being hard to use and adding depth to the metagame mean it is not banworthy? These points are bordering off-topic and this provides absolutely no evidence as to why one may believe it is not problematic. I think you could expand on your opinion perhaps.

I also read your points on Latios and if that is your opinion (I happen to think this may be a valid opinion), then you can address this in a separate thread if you wish. I am all ears to everyone who has a comment at any point and am not trying to deprive anyone of their ability to share their opinions.

---

BKC Eo Ut Mortus Finchinator Jirachee M Dragon dice

The inaction up to this point is quite off-putting but fortunately we still have time to do what needs to be done. I implore you, the councilmen, to acknowledge your responsibility here and act as your roles allow you to. Shadow Tag's (gothitelle's) presence since this thread was made has been overwhelmingly negative to anyone who has been keeping up with the metagame.

As for the logistics, it is within your power to enact this via council vote if you want to merely extend the prior Arena Trap ban. Even if there are unhealthy, metagame-dependent undertones of Shadow Tag, that can still be your internal reasoning just not a necessary factor to do it via policy update. If you want any other justification for this method then look at all of the Baton Pass related decisions in the past.

Sincerely,
A BW Player

I just want to say that the burden of proof should always be on the side opposite the status quo and because of this, people on the pro-ban side should not necessarily have been expecting action the entire time when there have not been many actually justified pro-ban arguments posted in this thread. Old Generation Tiering has a loose process, too, even if it is a silly, inconsistent one at times. I am disappointed that I have to prepare for WCOP and STour with Gothitelle in the tier when it feels so clearly uncompetitive and misplaced, but action has to first be taken through the form of proving one's side before action can be taken at an official, tiering level.

This is by no means a shot at you or anyone else because I know you actually provided your opinion in the OP and you just want progress to be made, which is genuine in its own right, but nobody should ever just assume something will be banned in a tier when it has been there for 7 years without substantial evidence supplied to prove why it should be removed.

---

hi!

From what I have read, you who posted here to plead for a Shadow Tag ban - so far ABR, McMeghan, and Finchinator - are adamant that it should be removed from BW Overused as soon as possible, mostly using the reasoning that it was banned in the most recent generations for reasons (being uncompetitive by the tiering policy definition I think?) which also apply to BW.

Notice how I have went out of my way to provide BW specific reasoning throughout my responses to other posts this far. I hope that this clarifies the matter to you and fits more into the context of the metagame. Please let me know if there is any confusion with what I said above as I would be happy to discuss anything at greater length with you if that will help.

However I must admit that as an outsider and someone who is both less concerned by BW and less skilled in the tier than you, it feels a bit strange. If there is something I realized when I first got into the tier a few years ago - once again, at a lesser level than yours - it is how different from XY (which was the current generation at that time) it was, with brand new mechanics and a brand new metagame for me. This is largely why I appreciated the tier so much.

I agree a lot. While some things can be uncompetitive in any OU metagame, which Shadow Tag likely is, we should look at it specifically in the metagame to get a more accurate analysis of the situation. I feel that Gothitelle traps -> cripples/removes too much in the current metagame at a too consistent rate to remain a healthy presence in the metagame. This is regardless of what it may have done in other generations or tiers.

Back in the day, the Shadow Tag Suspect Test saw, as McMeghan pointed out, pages and pages of debate and a lot of Suspect ladder games before its verdict. What you are proposing is to use it to remove this Ability from a tier which has nothing to do with what was gen6ou back then, simply because it has known a slight increase in usage in the past weeks? With such a reasoning we could justify banning Arena Trap (aka Dugtrio) from ADV Overused because it has a a decent usage and can be considered uncompetitive, though I don't think anyone who played the tier considers it banworthy.

I am not proposing this. I am proposing that because of the usage it has had, we should take a look at the impact it has on the metagame. Given that impact it has had, in my opinion, we should ban it. This is all highly specific to BW OU rather than general or given results in other metagames.

It is my first post in a policy thread and I hesitated a bit because I know I'm not exactly the most legitimate person to say such things. But whatever we say here, it is all because we want the best for Smogon's tiers so I guess there are no better place and time to ask questions and get replies from experienced players. Thanks for reading!

I am glad you posted and I hope you continue to! Never hesitate to share your opinion and ask about things that may not be clear whenever in doubt

---

Because I was transparent before, I will continue to be. Discussions have been happening (albeit slowly) in the BW council chat and we are considering sending out a survey and a potential vote on the matter. Please post here with any opinions in the meantime, but do so quickly as this will not be going on forever.

 

[Shurtugal]

Finchinator : Nitpick here, but I am not fond of this implying 'broken checks broken' logic is ok. I do not personally find Reuniclus problematic atm, especially with the rise in Sand Force Excadrill, but even then this should not really be used as an argument to keep it, but rather as an argument to potentially take other action in the future to solve the problem instead of simply having one problem cover up for another.

-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-

Okay, this is true for an active tier. I thought BW OU is supposed to have ended its cycle, and only really huge issues should be address as in game-breaking. So my question is this: where do we draw the line? If something like Reuniclus isnt potent enough to warrant action (and in a tier where its cycle has ended, I should think this is the case), then the line of thinking that Goth counters something broken makes it healthy is actually a valid point in this specific situation. Or am I looking at this wrong?

 

[Finchinator]

In an effort to remain transparent about our process, I would like to inform the community that I sent out a survey to the qualified playerbase today on behalf of the BW Council. Gothitelle/Shadow Tag is a part of this survey. The responses to the survey will be made public after the deadline, which is the end of this Friday (June 7th). We will proceed accordingly, if necessary, given the feedback we get from the survey. Feel free to ask any questions here or in private; I will be glad to answer them. Thank you.