Gen 5 BW Viability Ranking, mk. 2

BW
OU Viability Ranking Thread

Welcome to the BW OU Viability Ranking thread. This thread contains a ranking of every viable Pokemon, separated in tiers to indicate power gaps. You may notice that they are not ranked alphabetically within their own subtiers; that is because every Pokemon is ranked within their subranks too. For example, if Garchomp and Keldeo are both S rank, but Garchomp is ranked higher than Keldeo, then Garchomp is the better one of the two.

Keep in mind that rankings are subjective and that your opinion is not a fact, but rather, you should use facts to support your opinions.

BW2 OU Ranking tier list V5

S Rank:
Garchomp​
Keldeo​
Tyranitar​
Latios​
A Rank:

A+
Landorus-Therian​
Jirachi​
Alakazam​
Breloom​
Ferrothorn​
Skarmory​
Politoed​
A
Starmie​
Mew​
Amoonguss​
Slowking​
Mienshao​
Heatran​
Hydreigon​
Jellicent​
Excadrill​
A-
Terrakion​
Kyurem-Black​
Gastrodon​
Gliscor​
Dragonite​
Mamoswine​
Gyarados​
Tornadus​
Tentacruel​
Rotom-Wash​
Volcarona​
Scizor​
Reuniclus​

B Rank:

B+
Magnezone​
Toxicroak​
Kyurem​
Slowbro​
Salamence​
Sableye​
Latias​
Thundurus-Therian​
Gengar​
Gothitelle​
Tangrowth​
Hippowdon​
Celebi​
B
Ninetales​
Cresselia​
Moltres​
Zapdos​
Jynx​
Kingdra​
Chansey​
Weavile​
Alomomola​
Lucario​
Abomasnow​
Forretress​
Sharpedo​
Victini​
Froslass​
Metagross​
Xatu​

B-
Feraligatr​
Quagsire​
Roserade​
Virizion​
Conkeldurr​
Seismitoad​
Cobalion​
Azumarill​
Magneton​
Lapras​
Cofagrigus​

C
Suicune​
Porygon2​
Scrafty​
Bronzong​
Azelf​
Jolteon​
Haxorus​
Heracross​
Shaymin​
Infernape​
Espeon​
Chandelure​
Wobbuffet​
Darmanitan​
Cloyster​
Nidoqueen​
Aerodactyl​
Riolu​

I made too many changes to list from the old thread to list them all, so feel free to contest anything. The most pressing issues right now: Landorus-T and/or Jirachi up to S? Everything's up for grabs. Go nuts :D​
 
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Lando-S
Arguably the best rocker in the tier, so splashable as it is a solid answer to a bunch of the scary physical atrackers in the tier. Not to mention gets monumentum like nothing else. This isn't even taking into account its base 145 attack which helps sets such as gravity/EP make its normal switch ins useless, aswell as making scarf a great late game cleaner. Another argument is that looking at s rank, lando beats 3/4 mons 1v1 depending on set. Hell even double dance can clean a team with ease. But when considering moving to S the scarf set and the bulky set are the reasons why I think lando should be S.
 

Typhlito

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Excellent list man. I agree with lando being an S mon due to it being able to fit in most teams as well as his ability to run multiple roles with great effectiveness. His most note worthy sets were already mentioned but it really is quite amazing.

Its a bit lower on the list but I think weavile should be a bit higher on this list. I think its a solid high/top B rank mon just because it has an excellent niche in the metagame. Its easily one of the best pursuit mons in the tier that is quick enough to outspeed most of the meta. Its ice stab and priority puts a dent in most pokemon that dont resist it and while its not common, it can run swords dance to let it bust through some common switch ins. All this plus a decline in the use of scizor, one of biggest weavile counters should bump it up a bit on the list since its only real downfall is how it wears itself out quickly through hazards, weather and life orb.
 
I think Mienshao is far too high. It's a decent mon but it's incredibly frail, somewhat predictable (non-Scarf sets are mediocre), doesn't fit many styles, and is heavily momentum reliant. It's obviously a nice revenger and cleaner but it's nowhere near as reliable or as imposing as the other mons in A Rank. Its consistently low usage (~50 in ST21/ST22 and only used 4 times in SPL) is a testament to this. Strongly advocate moving it to A- Rank.

Rotom-Wash seems a little low to me. It's a nice glue mon that checks/annoys pretty much every team and can function as a short-term check to a lot of things. Pairs well with a lot of common cores and is generally simple to use effectively. Probably still belongs in A- Rank but I feel as though it should be nearer the top of it.

As for lower ranks, Zapdos is probably too high. No one really uses it much, certainly not to the level of the other mons in B+ Rank, and the current metagame isn't all that kind to it. I also propose moving Weavile up a little (best Pursuiter outside of Tyranitar, great Speed tier, Ice-type attacks are generally hard to wall, etc.), dropping Xatu down a bit (loses to most SR users and some Breloom), and dropping Roserade to C Rank (bad Spiker, too frail, too weak).

Cofagrigus, Seismitoad, and Tangrowth all see enough usage to deserve placing somewhere, too.
 
I think Terrakion and Mienshao should swap places.

Terrakion is a fearsome wallbreaker with insane firepower and no real coverage problem, his STAB combination has no real resist in the OU metagame, while outspeeding a good portion of it. It also has some defensive utility thanks to its decent bulk, especially in Sand. For example, it can tank +1 Giga Drain from Volcarona, provided Sand is up, and it is also a nice scarfer, also the drop of Scizor in viability helps it a bit. Landorus-T is annoying for it, but it has enough special attack for HP Ice to be a viable option on it, especially since, as said, it doesn't really need any other move aside from Stone Edge + Close Combat. It has some exploitable weaknesses obviously (mostly its Ground and Water weaknesses, as well as a Fighting weakness), which is why I think A is the right place for it.

I 100% agree with Ciele about Mienshao, I would move it to A-.

I also agree with Ciele about Zapdos. Newer gens have Defog and non permanent weather, which makes Zapdos 100% times better, but BW zapdos just doesn't have this luxury. Permanent sand is annoying, and it needs spin support, and the ubiquity of bulky Tyranitar certainly doens't help it. Zapdos can do a lot of work vs some teams (especially vs Rain, where it's really hard to wall Electric + Fire + Ice effectively), and has some nice bulk and access to Roost, but the amount of support it requires, combined with its weaknesses, makes it an overall mediocre Pokémon.

Lucario should be either B+ or at the top of B I think. It requires some support (mainly weakening Chomp / Lando-T / Keldeo), but +2 Extremespeed can absolutely devastate a lot of teams. Crunch and Ice Punch are uncommon options, but they immensely help Lucario's matchup vs some of the mons it has issues killing with +2 Extremespeed (Landorus-T, Gliscor, Jellicent, Slowking). It is also helped by the drop in popularity of Reuniclus.
 
I knew I was forgetting something... I love Tangrowth, added it to B+ (I think it's definitely a better choice than Hippowdon and Celebi). Definitely overrated Zapdos with how good I think it can potentially be but for now it's dropped. Seismitoad added to B- as I think he makes the difference between Conkeldurr and Cobalion quite clear. Bottom of B- now grudgingly features Cofagrigus. Xatu now goes to the bottom of B, I think I just wanted all the sun staples in one place but that was a bit silly looking back.

I actually think Roserade deserves its current ranking. TSpikes can be really deadly and sleep is amazing. It's not a great Keldeo check or anything but it can do the job once which can really make your Latios scary. There are some pretty good teams with it. I don't have any illusions about it being a consistently great Pokemon but it sure does have uses and when you consider what it's above I don't think dropping it is the right call.

Weavile goes up a bit... it's still not anywhere near good though.

I really don't like Rotom-W a lot. Yes, it'll burn something... and then that's about it. Ideally it enables really dangerous Pokemon off its Volt Switch; fighters, dragons, Alakazam, and more! However it gets worn down so fast in sand (especially when something as simple as an SR Landorus can freely U-turn on it), and it's an invitation for Ferrothorn to set up a billion Spikes (I'll take the burn every time). Rotom teams generally don't spin either and that's not the This happens with rain offense too, and it can't even Volt Switch everywhere because guys like Garchomp and Thundurus exist so the fact that you took one Tornadus Hurricane or Starmie Hydro Pump might not do you too much good in the long run. Amoonguss might get scared of the teammates Rotom might bring in but it's staying alive forever while Rotom is definitely not. God forbid you face a Gastrodon. Even sand offense teams that are Rotom weak on paper just overwhelm it so easily. While it can be a great Pokemon sometimes (for example a sand team with it will almost never lose to sun; you pivot him into Tales and Cress for safe Volt Switches into Tyranitar ad infinitum, and obviously it's pretty obnoxious at the beginning of a battle to most teams) it takes a lot to use it to its full potential and thus it's not that consistent, so I think it belongs with the Pokemon surrounding it.

As for the big cheese, Mienshao: I know people's eyes must've popped when they saw it that high but I will defend this one vigorously as I truly believe it has become one of the elite BW Pokemon. To me it is easily a much more consistent performer than everything below it. The Scarf set is this incredible mix of Garchomp/Keldeo (spammable STAB, great for cleaning) and Landorus-T (U-turn) topped off with Regenerator (!!!!!) and a speed stat to die for. The LO set is an incredibly vicious wallbreaker that's very tough to wall and the few things that do get U-turned on with ease into more dangerous threats. It's still great vs. offense, not least because Fake Out has great utility as well. Its frailty doesn't prevent it from putting in a ton of work game in game out. I know what Mienshao's gonna do but I still hate facing it, just like Alakazam or Keldeo. Its movepool is also fantastic even though it almost doesn't need it so it can definitely surprise people if it wants to. It's amazing on sand offense/balance and weatherless offense; I'm sure it could be used effectively on rain as well (threaten Tyranitar, U-turn, here comes the rain assault). Again, look at the Pokemon below Mienshao. I strongly believe that it is more powerful and more consistently useful than everything below it (even Heatran and Jellicent). I am not opposed to a change but I don't buy that its frailty and relatively low usage is reason for it to move down. It is a phenomenal Pokemon.

Terrakion is great and I was wrong there, he's now at the bottom of A, with Kyurem-B starting off A- rank. He's obviously very good and should be used more than he is but there are a lot of things that naturally annoy it so it can be hard to pull off. However A is fine.

So: more on Land/Jira and now Mienshao.
 
Jirachi is definitely S material, with its plethora of sets and versatility, and can do just about anything your team needs, while having amazing resistances and decent bulk, even with little investments. It is also a very sturdy check of some very dangerous threats of today's metagame, like Latios and Alakazam. Switching into Jirachi is often hard in itself, if you haven't scouted its set, and even then, it could carry any move that could kill the mon you sent in. Heatran is the only Pokémon that comes close to fully countering Jirachi (escluding the very rare HP Ground), and not expecting a certain move could mean losing a mon (ever lost your Hippowdon to Grass Knot? Feels bad).

Landorus-T is an amazing mon, very easily splashable, and has some nice options both offensively and defensively, but I don't think it belongs to the S tier. I can't really explain it, it's just how I feel when I use it most of the times, sometimes I wish I had more defensive evs, sometimes I wish it was faster, sometimes I wish I had more attack evs.

I don't have a strong opinion on Mienshao, I'll try playing with it more and then come back here with the results I guess.
 

Jirachee

the bad man
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I don't think Landorus-T is S, to be honest. Offensively Landorus is extremely dangerous and one of the biggest threats in the tier, however I think it's certainly flawed as a defensive Pokemon. The biggest issue is that the defense set is basically free layers for Skarmory so you're not really getting much done defensively. Not only that but all the big physical threats, for example Garchomp, Landorus itself, Jirachi, Breloom, etc. can all beat Landorus if they want at very little cost.

Jirachi I don't feel is S for similar reasons. Offensively Jirachi is one of the most threatening pokes in the tier, but defensively it just fails to be a permanent answer to anything because it despises Spikes. The SpDef Wish / Protect set is excellent on Rain teams when backed by a spinner but otherwise it just fails to put any pressure on any team that has a Spiker. Spinning is just way too hard in BW. Jirachi suffers immensely from this.

I think Terrakion is perfectly fine in A-. Terrakion looks super scary on paper but it just has way too many weaknesses to potent types to be a consistent threat. Water / Ground / Psychic / Steel / Fighting / Grass are all REALLY common. It doesn't have Tyranitar's immense bulk or Pursuit to compensate so it's very easy to pressure. Garchomp, Keldeo, and Mienshao are 3 similar Pokemon that don't have the same issue which makes Terrakion harder to consider for a team.

Personally I feel like Starmie belongs in A+. The LO set in rain is a nightmare to face for just about any team given just how strong it is. Starmie can run 4 offensive mons if you feel like it, either HP Fire outside of rain (making it just about uncounterable) or a Grass move to lure Gastrodon / Jellicent. Rapid Spin itself can enable Starmie's team to run some very dangerous offensive threats like Tornadus or Volcarona.

Gastrodon is a solid A rank Pokemon in my opinion. There are a lot of teams that just can't break it. The Water immunity is also incredibly handy against Rain teams, obviously. And it stops Volt Switchers dead in their tracks! You don't see EBelt Keldeo with HP Grass all that much anymore thanks to Amoonguss's newfound popularity which helps Gastro a lot.

I think Mew might be a tad high. I think it should be at the top of A-. While it's obviously amazing against physical offenses it just struggles to keep up with sand + hazards + potential status and eventually gets worn down. It also has the issue of letting in the dangerous MagmaTran in for basically free making it a liability vs those teams. Still a solid pick in tournaments against some players though!

Maybe Gyarados could be dropped to B+? DD sets aren't that scary given how easy it is to keep SR up, and with a faster scarfer it should be held in check. Gyarados is best on rain but having to stack on Waters can compound the Electric weakness. Choice sets can cause big surprises though I guess but you don't really see them quite often

Toxicroak belongs in A- I think. It just has such a great synergy with other rain pokes. Checking Keldeo is a godsend because the Scarf set threatens to clean Rain Offense hard. Taking advantage of Ferrothorn is also such an uncommon trait for rain pokes that it makes it invaluable. SubToxic, SD 3 Atks, and SubPunch are all very dangerous sets that can tear holes in quite a few teams. Reuniclus being uncommon at best really helps

One poke in B+ I never liked is Tangrowth. I think B would be a fairer rank. Its main niche is shutting down threats but even with Regenerator it ends up being worn down because of Sand and the layers it gives up. It's fairly solid on that one rain stall Tokyo Tom likes to use but otherwise it's not something that will end up giving you trouble

Celebi should be at the top of B+. The NP 3 atks set is incredibly dangerous and really underrated right now. It's best used with Magnezone, try it out!
 
Can anyone explain the Moltres rank? I never saw it on ladder back when I played BW back in the day and I came to the thread to figure out my team. I'm sure it's a very competent mon, but I really don't know what it does.
 
Can anyone explain the Moltres rank? I never saw it on ladder back when I played BW back in the day and I came to the thread to figure out my team. I'm sure it's a very competent mon, but I really don't know what it does.
Surprisingly, it's best on rain teams, where it can dish out accurate Hurricanes. The Fire typing's nice for stuff like Ferro that can generally be annoying for rain to break past. Needs spin support, but most spinners are great in rain anyway. As far as what it does... SubRoost, Choice Specs, and Agility are all notable sets.
 
Mew has huge potential, I just hope people eventually utilize its OVERALL good stats to their advantage instead of focusing on solely attacking or defending.

Seriously, don't be scared to use a Bulky CM or NP set...mix WOW to give it some flavour.

EDIT: You little rattata smurf dont plagiarise from me
 
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Vaporeon has a huge potential, I just hope people eventually utilize its OVERALL good stats to their advantage instead of focusing on solely defending.
Seriously, don't be scared to use a LO set...mix HYDRATION REST and TOXIC to give it some flavour.
 
going off of SPL trends i would expect zam to go down and sun in general to go up, along w maybe an excadrill rise. i have no idea how this meta works anymore though.
 

Mannat

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Won SPL Predictions
1520524037680.png

Can we add him?

Dugtrio should also probably move up seeing that it's seen a fuckton of success this SPL and is even sparking potential ban discussions at this point.
 
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Finchinator

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OU & NU Leader
Hey, the metagame changed a lot over the past few months and I think now would be a good time to discuss some changes to the OP.

S Rank:

Garchomp
Keldeo
Tyranitar
Latios

A Rank:

A+
Landorus-Therian
Jirachi
Breloom
Ferrothorn
Skarmory
Politoed
Excadrill (from A to A+)

A
Alakazam (from A+ to A)
Starmie
Mew
Amoonguss
Slowking
Mienshao
Heatran
Hydreigon
Jellicent
Tornadus (from A- to A)
Volcarona (from A- to A)
Ninetales (from B to A)
Cresselia (from B to A)
Dugtrio (from B to A)

A-
Terrakion
Kyurem-Black
Gastrodon
Gliscor
Dragonite
Mamoswine
Tentacruel
Rotom-Wash
Scizor
Reuniclus
Toxicroak (from B+ to A-)
Gothitelle (from B+ to A-)
Xatu (from B to A-)
Chansey (from B to A-)
Thundurus-Therian (from B+ to A-)

B Rank:

B+
Gyarados (from A- to B+)
Magnezone
Kyurem
Slowbro
Latias
Gengar
Hippowdon
Celebi
Alomomola (from B to B+)
Victini (from B to B+


B
Salamence (from B+ to B)
Sableye (from B+ to B)
Tangrowth (from B+ to B)
Moltres
Zapdos
Kingdra
Weavile
Lucario
Abomasnow
Forretress
Sharpedo
Froslass
Metagross

B-
Feraligatr
Quagsire
Roserade
Virizion
Conkeldurr
Seismitoad
Azumarill
Darmanitan (from C to B-)
Bronzong (from C to B-)
Vaporeon (from unranked to B-)
Ditto (from unranked to B-)

C Rank
C
Cobalion (from B- to C)
Magneton (from B- to C)
Lapras (from B- to C)
Cofagrigus (from B- to C)
Jynx (from B to C)
Azelf
Suicune
Porygon2
Scrafty
Jolteon
Haxorus
Heracross
Shaymin
Infernape
Espeon
Chandelure
Wobbuffet
Cloyster
Nidoqueen
Aerodactyl
Riolu
Liepard (from unranked to C)
Staraptor (from unranked to C)


Proposed rises:

Excadrill (from A to A+) - Excadrill has risen from a pretty average addition to the metagame to a top threat, defining how we play the tier and often dictating a lot of temabuilding decisions on fairly standard builds. I think A+ is representative of it being near top tier and having a large impact on the tier, potentially sweeping many unprepared teams. It saw top 5 usage throughout this SPL and while it did not have a stellar win rate like it did in previous tournaments, it still is clearly on par with other A+ Pokemon in terms of raw viability.

Tornadus (from A- to A) - I feel like Tornadus is one of the easiest Pokemon to abuse and build around with Rain offense and there have been a number of potent Tornadus Rain teams displayed throughout the past year or so. While it only saw 10% usage, this still put it around some of its potential fellow A rank company and it had a high win rate, too, in terms of this SPL. All things considered, this one is less clear-cut than Excadrill, but it limits teambuilding and can have an incredibly threatening impact on games when it finds an opening, so I feel A represents its offensive presence best.

Volcarona (from A- to A) - I feel like Volcarona should have never been A-, but, regardless, it surely should not be right now. The matchup moth has been the centerpiece and win condition of a number of annoying Sun builds, most notably the team Leftiez malevolently crafted, and it is perhaps the highest ceiling win condition in the tier. While it does require support and it is clearly not "splashable", that does not stop people from using it and, when used, it saw a respectable 75% win ratio in SPL, so it is clear how effective and game changing Volcarona can be on the right team. All things considered, I think that A is the perfect place for Volcarona right now and perhaps A- would be better if Dugtrio got removed in the near future.

Ninetales (from B to A) - Sun has multiplied in popularity and effectiveness, with Ninetales seeing top 15 usage and a 50%+ win rate this SPL. This one should be pretty self-explanatory for anyone who has followed trends the past few months, but basically Sun has risen to prominence, Ninetales is a staple on Sun as the setter, and the move up to A reflects this perfectly.

Cresselia (from B to A) - Another essential staple on most Sun teams and while it's not mandatory on all builds, you see it on everyone that isn't Leftiez Sun, more or less. Not only is Cress in Sun borderline unkillable, but it also has decent coverage + Toxic to actually make progress, which is big. Was between A-/A on this nomination, but given how effective it truly is and seeing it compared to other A- mons pushed me over.

Dugtrio (from B to A) - He's on pretty much every Sun team and also has strong, underappreciated niche's on other playstyles, too. Dugtrio's amazing rn and trapping's huge currently, so A suits it, I'd say -- broken btw.

Toxicroak (from B+ to A-) - Croak should've never been B+ imo and it hasn't even necessarily been on the rise, but annoying sub variants have been torturing teams for years now and I feel A- suits its niche best, even w/ Sun keeping it a bit less common and hurting Rain in general.

Gothitelle (from B+ to A-) - Much like Dug, but less common/prominent. Still used an ok amount in general and huge on some Suns, especially Leftiez's Sun! Cannot see either trapper being below here currently, ngl.

Xatu (from B to A-) - Stuck between B+ and A- here and can still see it going either way as the niche it has p much revolves around Dugtrio teams (can be Rain stall, but usually Sun) and it's a bad Pokemon saved by a godsend of an ability, more or less. Would apreciate someone else providing inpu between A- and B+, but regardless it should rise at least to B+ seeing as it got more usage than stuff like Heatran, Mienshao, and Mew, all of which are higher ranked, and fits onto some prominent cheesy teams.

Chansey (from B to A-) - She's really good on stalls and especially those of the Sunny variation. BW will never be the home of good Chansey offense, but the egg holder still warrants sufficient usage/attention to move up rn. Stall in general has been used pretty effectively over the past year or two, even if it is much more naturally handled than in ORAS or SM.

Thundurus-Therian (from B+ to A-) - Another Rain mon that I feel never should have dropped into the depths of B+. Thundy-T is insanely threatening and has always been. While it has not gained popularity recently, I feel like it is on par with other A- level threats and a step above the rest in B+.

Alomomola (from B to B+) - Could honestly go either way with this one, but it has some real niche when used well and I think that it can get use on serious teams, unlike some other mons in B rn. I guess this could just be my inner Posho talking and if so then don't mind me as this is one of the noms I was more on the fence about, but it should at least get some consideration to move up, I reckon.

Victini (from B to B+) - Bit less common and more novelty a Sun mon, but a potent one at that. Nothing cares to fuck with V Create, Heatran aside, when the Sun is up. That's all you need to know, more or less, but it is worth noting that a few people took advantage of it in SPL!

Darmanitan (from C to B-) - Scarf Darm's actually really cool on Sun and on my favorite Sun team rn. Can provide replays if needed, but imo while Victini is the better Band abuser, Darmanitan is 100% the better Scarf Sun nuke -- here is a recent tournament game showcasing it, it 2HKOd an Alomomola in Sun w some minor residuals!

Bronzong (from C to B-) - When paired with Magnezone, Bronzong's actually insane vs standard Sand when on weatherless or Sand of its own. It hard walls Excadrill, Landorus-T, Garchomp, Latios, Jirachi, etc. while checking SR Tyranitar, crippling bulky waters, and being a nuisance to take out while maintaining momentum. It needs support and it does not fit a ton, but it can really excel in the right match-up and is a very legitimate pick if used properly, imo, so B- is more fitting than the wasteland of C.

Vaporeon (from unranked to B-) - Smurf touched on it earlier and while it isn't great, it's surely viable and it saw a couple tournament uses recently, so I figured B- would be an ok place to start. Could see C fitting it, too, however.

Ditto (from unranked to B-) - McMeghan mon and it has a real niche counter trapping and fucking over opposing Excadrill while being a viable revenge killer/utility in general. It is actually really cool right now and I would advise trying it out. McM's post in the sets thread elaborates more on it specifically if you want to see!

Liepard (from unranked to C) - cheesemon has a niche, unfortunately

Staraptor (from unranked to C) - Maybe a reactionary stretch, but looking at the other shit in C, it fits in and it is on that gimmicky Heist/Smurf team that has done pretty decently, including Smurf's recent win vs ZoroDark.

Proposed drops:

Alakazam (from A+ to A) - Meh, I never felt like it was A+ ever since the 2015 Alakazam boner phase passed. It has been a solid A Pokemon since then and it is not remotely a staple on Sand, so it is hard to argue for it being A+ in the context of the other Pokemon nowadays. I suppose it does have enough impact on the game itself, especially the preservation of some things and how teams are built (i.e: Chople on Tar), but really Alakazam is the epitome of a threatening A rank Pokemon, imo.

Gyarados (from A- to B+) - Pretty sure Jirachee touched on this, but basically I never viewed Gyarados as A- and while it can do well vs Sun if Sub DD and it can fit on some Rain teams, it isn't too great, nor splashable. Also, do NOT use Scarf Gyarados -- fuck Posho.

Salamence (from B+ to B) - Specs Mence and even Mixed Mence are cool, but they do not provide anything defensively, are SR weak, do not even do shit vs Cresselia like Latios or Garchomp potentially can depending upon set and circumstances, and also don't provide the same Speed as competition -- only base 100 Speed, which is slower than the two aforementioned Pokemon (Latios and Garchomp)

Sableye (from B+ to B) - He's reallllllly bad.

Tangrowth (from B+ to B) - As Jirachee said earlier on in the thread, I do not think Tangrowth warranted placement this high, even if it has found its way onto a number of balances/semi-stalls over the past year, most notably by dudes like Dice. It just isn't great and Amoonguss sees much more usage seemingly.

Cobalion (from B- to C) - Never been a fan of Cobalion in OU and I do not think it has much of a standout place in BW, unfortunately.

Magneton (from B- to C) - Magnezone has dropped in usage, but a niche Scarf variant of him that outruns Starmie has pretty much fallen off the face of the earth, especially with the noteworthy power and bulk drop.

Lapras (from B- to C) - Yea, Lapras has a rough niche on Rain teams I suppose, but I don't think I'd use him seriously and i don't think it should be ranked the same as some semi-serious Pokemon in B-, so dropping it here is best.

Cofagrigus (from B- to C) - Sugarhigh, that you?

Jynx (from B to C) - The Fuga team's days in the spotlight are long gone and Jynx is now just another weird niche Rain mon, all of which seem to reside roughly in the C rank.
 
Ferrothorn->from A+ to S
-Ferrothorn hasn't changed much, yet you can still see some innovation every now and then with McMeghan 3 attacks Ferro for example. I think people have become much better at customising their ferros btw, for example by running protect + seed ferrothorn on teams that only have 1 ground immunity, or by running knock off when you need to remove opposing Ferrothorns as early as possible e.g. Gyarados rain; I don't remember running team-specific Ferrothorn years ago bar Chople Berry, but it's possible my memory is serving me incorrectly.
-On the other hand, the metagame changed with the influx of Specs Latios and Excadrill, two mons that make Jirachi a way less reliable choice for Rain and sand too (where the Thorn Pod pokemon greatly helps Tyranitar against Specs Latios);
-Ferrothorn seems to be the keystone of a new sort of Weatherless team too (dice's week 9 team).
-Least passive among most used Spikers in the tier (again see 3 atks ferro lol)
-Its usage and winrate speak clearly enough...Ferrothorn is always able to do what it is supposed to, even if Magnezone gets in the way (13th in usage, 16% winrate). The only real Ferrothorn neuterer is Xatu.

Landorus-T-> from A+ to S
Landorus is definitely better than it was when this thread was posted. 59% winrate over 27 games is freaking solid, placing it above the current S mons. The main reason being Excadrill promoting its viability over Garchomp and the low usage of Breloom (harder to insert in your typical Sand team due to Excadrill itself), who usually forces Lando to come in and cripples/weakens it. Generally speaking, we've only had a few games where Landorus-T got effectively lured and incapacitated by things such as Draco Meteor Garchomp, maybe because the game shifted towards other objectives I guess?
Landorus-T is an extremely generic and splashable pokemon with lots of twists available (Sleep Talk, SD Superpower, Punishment, SD SR etc.), and I think it may as well deserve S-rank.

Ninetales, Dugtrio and Cresselia from B to B+ / A- (A is too much imo)
Ninetales, Cresselia and Dugtrio should all rise, I agree. What amazes me is the diversity of Sun: we have seen many different teams that while are pretty similar require different counterplay (Tokyo Tom's one suffers from SR Blast Chomp but bluri's Sun has HP Ice Scarf Gothitelle to remove it; certain teams are Gyarados-weak but dice had Magnezone to check it decently; SubCMLatias is only threatening to Chansey-less and Weavile-less Sun teams; most teams fear Cresselia getting a random Toxic but again what if they run Heal Bell Chansey? And so on). The only pokemons that are always useful against Sun seem to be Shed Shell / Balloon Heatran, Hippowdon, trappers and Stealth Rock setters that blast trough Xatu (Terrakion, Thunder Jirachi, SD Claw / LO Garchomp, Heatran itself, Stone Edge Landorus, Stone Edge Tyranitar, Mold Breaker Excadrill, Azelf, Aerodactyl, Mamoswine), other than that it's possible more obscure styles/mons break it (during my test games I've found old school Volturn + sand fares pretty well against Sun for example, also Gengar and DD Terrakion if SR are up) but as things are right now Sun punishes both Rain and Sand which make up for 70+% of the entire metagame, and that's remarkable.

Supporting Excadrill -> from A to A+
Excadrill had a great start (before midseason it had the same winrate as Keldeo's), then it eventually dropped to 38% due to various reasons. However, there's no doubt Excadrill is the pokemon that changed bw and we should discuss making it A+.
Scarf Sand Force is a great asset for a Sand team, it allows you to make more diverse teams with SR-weak pokemons such as Dragonite, Gyarados and Salamence without having to resort to conventional spinners such as Forretress (see Shoka teams). It's a decently fast, powerful revengekiller able to save you many times throughout the game while working wonders as a cleaner during late-game or with Gravity. Its only drawback is the relatively low Speed, letting it being outsped by Volca and Landorus-t among the others. Bulky Spinner acts as a cool gliscoresque set and it's okay. Sand Rush is matchup reliant and I'll refrain from further comment about it. SD Sand Force has only been used once by Funkasaurus against SoulWind...I'm not sure, it's exceptionally powerful yet so slow. I think Garchomp is the superior choice if you want to go that way. Sr mold breaker is cool but good old sash kion is better at that job imo

Consider a Rotom-W rise to A
I know it's frail and easily worn down, yeah, but it works and its winrate proves that. The current analysis lists a "bulky attacker" set that is too frail and a "specially defensive" set that is too slow. My personal take on rotom-w is 248 HP / 28 SpA / 144 SpD / 88 Spe Calm and it has never disappointed me, being able to check a plethora of mons among which Excadrill, Starmie, Tornadus, SD Scizor, even counter SubTox Gliscor if I run Chestorest lol. Seriously consider making it A
Supporting Thundurus-T from B+ to A-
Thundurus-T simply isn't on par with Hippowdon and Tangrowth. Glad to see some Substitute variant being used btw
Supporting Volcarona from A- to A
I agree. Bluri's team too was highly centered around Volcarona. That is not something you can say for other mons in A- except Reuniclus maybe.
Politoed from A+ to…a bit higher in A+
Rain is definitely stronger than it was in the past yet I can't see the frog raising to S. I can see it swapping its subrank with Alakazam, which is more deadly (more ferros less jirachis) but less common (due to having to prep for exca, again) I think now.
Supporting Gyarados from A- to B+
Poor performance and it didn't even do anything during the only game it won, besides checking Mienshao.
Supporting Bronzong & Darmanitan to B-
Posho already explained what Bronzong does in the bw spl thread and so did Finchinator a post ago. Darmanitan is a worse Victini but I guess its viability should rise too
Metagross drop
Whatever niche it had when this thread was posted (Agility? Trick Iron Ball?) seems now unreasonable due to Excadrill's arrival, high Ferrothorn usage, and Latios blasting through it. If you compare it with other mons in its rank (Alomomola, Zapdos, even Jynx) it's clearly the worst of all.
Cloyster rise
Swap it with Lapras
Keep Mence B+
Supporting a Chansey rise but from B to A- is too big of a jump imho
Keep Jynx B or at least B- (C is overkill)
Supporting Toxicroak rise too and all Unranked->Ranked nominations

Also Tyranitar = still God
 
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As one of the biggest Rotom-W haters throughout the year, with the rise of sun and Excadrill I think raising it to A is acceptable right now. Rotom + Tyranitar makes Sun teams' life hell, while Excadrill needs a lot of chip (and possibly a flinch or 2) to muscle past Rotom, provided it isn't running Rock Slide, as showcased in the last SPL BW game.

I definitely agree with the raises suggested by Finch, and I already posted about how Terrakion should rise to A, and its recent rise in usage in SPL is enough to justify it I think. And definitely drop Gyarados. I think Landorus-T should stay in A+, it is insanely threatening offensively while giving you some defensive options even with a fully offensive moveset, and can break past pretty much everything except Tangrowth (it could theoretically but that's a fringe case), but that's something a lot of mons can already do, Lando has some added benefits like being immune to Spikes and having respectable bulk and being able to pivot, but these alone aren't enough to propel the mon to S in my opinion.
 

phosphor

hopeless romantic
is a Tutoris a Community Contributor
Diglett to B-

Suprisingly, I still see sun stall very high up on the ladder. Unlike Dug, Diglett has to choose between Adamant or Jolly to either get certain kills (Notably speed tying KyuB), and people have been running Rest+ Eject Button on their Ninetales to avoid trapping (something that cannot be done before the Dugtrio ban). Diglett is less consistently reusable than Dugtrio, and it loses trapping Terrakion, Jirachi, and Chansey (without Substitute). However, Diglett is still capable of consistently trading itself Tyranitar, Heatran, offensive Ninetales, non-scarf Magnezone, and Blissey, and it can still take ~50% off Toed before dying. In teams like Latias/Cresselia or Cresselia/Chansey sun stall this is indispensible.
 
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