BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[HardCore]

BTW, Hydreigon's Fire Blast is a OHKO against ferrothorn in rain after stealth rock damage. Even without it, Ferrothorn will be left with pretty much no health.

Here is the damage to 252 Hp 252 spdef Ferrothorn in rain from Timid Life Orb Hydreigon after Stealth Rocks, which is 330 hp. 66.7% - 78.8%
Without taking damage from Rocks 62.5% - 73.9% I used Forretress with +2 Sp Def and enough to reach 364 total and edited his Hp's after calculating Stealth Rock damage WITH the resist, which is 6.25% or 22 Hp.

Modest in Rain with Life Orb
Rocks: 72.7% - 86.1%
Max Hp:68.2% - 80.7%

Modest Expert Belt:
Rocks: 66.7% - 80%
Max Hp:62.5% - 75%

Timid Expert Belt:
Rocks: 60.9% - 72.7%
Max Hp: 57.1% - 68.2%

Specially defense Ferrothron isn't a bad option with Thundurs T and Tornadus T running around, so for the sake of scenario and making a nice Theorymon. Ferrothron could still be granted the opportunity to thunder wave Hydreiogon or Gyro Ball it. Now if it is taking a hit from Hydreigon on the switch that isn't lowering Hydreigon's Sp Atk then Ferrothorn would get 2HKO'd probably unless there is a double protect or a miss.

Moreover I predict Mix Hydreigon to be very powerful and feared in the new B2W2 meta-game, because now he doesn't have to switch out against Tyranitar or Blissey. His power and versatility will have a large boost and his importance as a water resist will be more necessary than before, because I'm sure rain is about to be the most favored weather.

 

[Dr Ciel]

Good news everyone!

Analytic Beheeyem is now legal :)

http://www.serebii.net/black2white2/spookymanor.shtml

^ Elgyem

Well thats good news indeed. Now doubles and triples players can use it in thier Trick Room teams or whatnot.

 

[WaterBomb]

Trick Room and Analytic contradict each other, how would that even help?

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Well analytic is certainly a more useful ability on it than synchronize, at least when your not in trick room get a good special attack boost.

 

[Jukain]

Maybe Beheeyem will be good in NU now. Calm Mind set like Reuniclus in OU.

EDIT: It would definitely struggle Skuntank and Absol, which sucks, but still...

 

[Immoral Wombat]

With rain being everywhere in BW2, due to its new selection of toys, would you say there is enough rain now to 'rely' on it? For example, would it be justified to run Thunder over Body Slam/Thunder Wave on specially defensive Jirachi on a weatherless team?

 

[Skore]

Would you say there is enough rain now to 'rely' on it? For example, would it be justified to run Thunder over Body Slam/Thunder Wave on specially defensive Jirachiona non-rain team?

Not 100% rely but I've started throwing swift swim pokes on my non-rain teams to put the hurt on them.

 

[Shouting]

The generic team I see right now is Politoed/Starmie/Tornadus-T/Thundrus-T/Mamoswine/Filler (usually Ferrothorn)

It's really annoying, and I hope this is just all the hype that's going on. What do people use to get around this kind of team? Lanturn sounds interesting, but it's weak to Mamoswine's Earthquake which is a bummer.

 

[Skore]

The generic team I see right now is Politoed/Starmie/Tornadus-T/Thundrus-T/Mamoswine/Filler (usually Ferrothorn)

It's really annoying, and I hope this is just all the hype that's going on. What do people use to get around this kind of team? Lanturn sounds interesting, but it's weak to Mamoswine's Earthquake which is a bummer.

That team looks weak to a Toxicroak/Lanturn duo. Get Toxicroak behind a sub and it can even put dents in Tornadus-T with Sucker Punch. Add in a Specs Kingdra (with Swift Swim to use their rain against them) and things will die.

 

[Shouting]

Problem is Toxicroak can't really set up on anything but Politoed really, usually starmie has Life Orb so it's attacks will still hurt (I guess it depends on what spread). I've watched Toxiccroak in action and it has trouble with Tornadus and Thundrus-T everywhere.

Terrakion wrecks havoc also, specifically a Substitute one but with water attacks flying everywhere, again, it's hard to switch in.

 

[Immoral Wombat]

If a Lucario could pull of a Swords Dance, it would be GG. It can only do that on Mamoswine choice locked into his ice STAB, or Politoed/Thundurus-T/Tornados-T/Mamoswine locked into a coverage move, though. Maybe bring a Latios or Rotom-W to trick a scarf on one of their pokemon?

 

[Shouting]

Sadly, like you said Lucario dies to nearly any neutral water attack in rain.

I've seen Latios, usually they can only take one or two rain boosted moves at best but once they get in they can cause quite a bit of damage, the only problem is that HP fire is nearly useless in Rain. Specs Kingdra might seem like a better overall choice, at least against rain. Latios seems much better against Sun though.

I'm thinking something powerful with priority, which can deal with Starmie, Tornadus-T, and Thundrus-T since they're all fast and generally frail (somewhat). Maybe Choice Band Dragonite?

 

[Immoral Wombat]

I can't do calcs right now, but how would CB Azumarill fare? With rain on it's side, I can see it OHKOing them genies.

I was thinking of CB Dragonite too, mindgames with Extremespeed and Outrage should be effective against the general 'fast-frail' rain team. If they stay, they could get hit with Espeed, if they switch the switchin could eat an Outrage or rain-boosted Waterfall.

 

[superbadd]

No, 2HKO. OHKO w/SR.

 

[Shouting]

Is that with Aqua Jet I guess? If that's the case it doesn't seem too bad. It can even hit Ferrothorn with superpower.

After some experimenting, Waterfall always 2HKOs 252HP politoed in Rain, even without Stealth Rock.

Edit: 87.5% chance of OHKOing Ferrothorn after Stealth Rock with Superpower
31.75% chance of OHKOing 4HP Starmie after Stealth Rock with Waterfall (also a small chance of 2HKOing with Aqua Jet after Stealth Rock)
4 HP Mamoswine is always OHKO'd by Aqua Jet, even without Stealth Rock
And Choice Scarf Politoed is amazingly OHKO'd by Waterfall most of the time with Stealth Rock and a layer of spikes.
252HP/74Def (pretty sure that's the most popular spread) Amoongus is 2HKO'd by Waterfall, and most of the time OHKO'd by Ice Punch after Stealth Rock

 

[SJCrew]

Standard Support Toed is Bold, so it has to be fully invested in the other defensive stat. But the sensible move when Politoed switches in is to keep Waterfalling, since he can't do shit back besides pray for a Scald Burn.

 

[Shouting]

Well 3 attacks Politoed uses 252 HP, which I have seen before, and Choice Specs too I think uses 252 HP if they don't invest in speed, but still it won't enjoy taking waterfalls as you said, especially when it has no recovery.

 

[KurashiDragon]

Hold up peoples. I just took a look at serebii's hidden hollow page and I saw moxie Heracross. Scarf/moxie heracross. Why are we not talking about this?

 

[Shouting]

I really don't see it replacing Salamence anytime soon, maybe in UU it will probably work.

Then again Heracross isn't weak to Stealth Rock, but he is damaged by Spikes. Heracross isn't getting past ghosts anytime soon though, and even worse, Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T.

 

[I Am]

I think the whole scarfmoxie thing is better done by mence, cause he hits that base 100 speed tier.

 

[Xubble]

Moxiecross hates Ghosts and genies, but he can obliterate Steels and everything else

Moxiemence hates Steels, but he can obliterate Ghosts and genies and everything else.

Connection, anyone?

 

[Danger Mouse]

don't forget gyarados, another good moxie abuser.

 

[AccidentalGreed]

Excuse me for supposedly being left in the dust, but some people have expressed that certain kinds of Kingdra has been used frequently these days. Specifically (as indicated a few posts above me), what's with everybody and Specs Kingdra? I know Swift Swim Specs Kingdra CAN work with Rain being the most popular weather right now (due to the new Genie formes and Keldeo and all that)...

However, people must also keep in mind that despite Kingdra's typing (resulting in great abusive STABS), it really doesn't do it any favors defensively; Kingdra is prone to all entry hazards, and its typing gives it neutralities to attacks that Dragon-types normally resist (especially Electric- and Grass- and, sometimes, Bug-type moves). Additionally, while Kingdra has really powerful moves, it can be taken advantage of easily; Ferrothorn and Jellicent laughs if Kingdra doesn't use the correct move, and the opponent can easily abuse switching to take the incoming attacks and make Kingdra take more hazard damage. Even moreso, there's no guarantee that Rain will even be in effect, which might leaves users with an attacker with less-than-desirable traits.

I'm not saying Specs Kingdra is bad (in fact, it might be good with Rain Dance Tornadus-T), but it can easily be taken advantage of, that even I can, at times, be frustrated with the results.

 

[Emperor]

I don't really like using heracross with moxie mostly because I'd rather have guts but that's just me. Being immune to burn is just too good to give up :P

 

[Dr Ciel]

Well, while Guts is a solid ability, I prefer the Scarf Moxie Heracross set as it is a great revenge killer in UU.