BW2's New Toys and Some Old Ones Too

Intro:

http://www.smogon.com/smog/issue16/tutors

For those of you who didn’t bother to look, the article I linked to came out in the 16th issue of the smog. In it, Deck Knight speculates about the new moves that would come out in BW2 (then assumed to be Gray). I was intrigued by it and took special notice of Conkeldurr who, in my opinion, would benefit extremely from the addition of the old elemental punches and soar in popularity once he received them. But now that BW2 has come about, I could help but notice that everyone I have come across looked elsewhere to satisfy their thirst for “new toys” to play with. Disappointed, I looked to give Conkeldurr the attention he deserved and decided to build a team that capitalizes on his new moves. Spoiler alert: The team came out far from how I had intended as I feel that my fighting friend is severely overshadowed in spite of his important role for my team.



Team at a Glance:




With this team, I started laddering on Pokemon Showdown. Sadly, with the name I had started with already had a few losses under its belt and so I wasn’t able to climb as high onto the ladder as I wanted to (sitting in the top 20 with ~1880 right now and waiting for the server issues to be fixed before using an alt to try again).



Team History:

Before we start with the movesets, here’s a rundown on how my team came to be. I aimed to optimize my team synergy with every next pokemon choice. I would have to rely on resistances to keep my team healthy and fighting as opposed to choosing pokemon who would fight to the death without being able to help my other pokemon in the tiniest.



So here he is, Conkeldurr. If at this point you want to know why/how I picked him for my team, I hate you for skipping my intro.



Next up, for synergy sake and since Conkeldurr is one of the slower pokemon in the OU world, I chose Jirachi, who can come in on any super effective move aimed at Conkedurr (flying and psychic) with barely a scratch. He is infamous for spreading paralysis and abusing it as well as for being a general pain in the ass to many people.



With Conkeldurr unable to really take any move unscathed, I put in Dragonite since he can take the fire and ground attacks aimed at Jirachi, while Jirachi soaks up the ice and dragon attacks aimed at him.



Celebi came into this team mainly because I needed something that could take status moves and counter those pokemon who spread them (I’ll elaborate more when I get into movesets). It comes in on ground attacks aimed at Jirachi, psychic moves aimed as Conkeldurr, or electric attacks that my team in this state has no safe answers to.


I decided that with two fire and flying weaknesses on my team, I had to put in a pokemon who had to be able to resist those moves while threatening to KO those who used said attacks. After a bit of thought, rotom-w came to mind whose great typing and ability allows him to come in on ground, fire, water and ice attacks while his one and only grass weakness is taken care of by the likes of my other pokemon barring Conkeldurr.





At this point, I was pretty happy with my team, but filling up that sixth pokemon slot without introducing too many weaknesses that this metagame could take advantage of was going to be something very difficult to do. An OU steel type would throw in a third fire weakness I didn’t want to deal with because of sun teams as well as a second ground weakness that the common earthquake could easily exploit (NO DON’T YOU DARE SUGGEST BALLOON HEATRAN). That also took out bug, grass, fire, electric and ice with it. I wanted a ground type, but most are slow and that 3rd ice weakness could also be a pain. I also noticed that my team isn’t bothered too much by entry hazards and I wanted to keep it that way. I don’t think any fighting, ghosts, or psychics could be added without ruining my team synergy.

Long story short, I decided to satisfy my thirst for new BW2 toys to play with and went with Tornadus-T, whose weaknesses are taken care of by my other pokemon and also gave me a way to deal with opposing fighting pokemon should they prove to be too much for Celebi to handle alone. Regenerator and some utility made it appealing. Nuff said.




In-depth Look:

Just before we get into the pokemon themselves, I’d like to take a moment and point out a few things. This team doesn’t mind entry hazards since just about everyone is immune to toxic spikes and my opponent rarely can get spikes down since they seem to panic after Conkeldurr gets a sub up. Stealth rock is only super effective on D-nite, who I avoid switching into in general, and Tornadus-T, who has regenerator to make up for it to some extent. The type synergy of my team almost always leaves me with an answer to my opponents switch ins which is why there is a lack of recovery baring Jirachi’s wish and the lefties. Prediction is also eased a lot for me thanks to my volt turn and sub on my pokes. Finally, while Conkeldurr is not the star of the team, its ability to rip holes in my opponents’ defenses really helps the rest of my team get through pokemon that would otherwise stop me dead in my tracks. As such, it’s important for me to keep him alive until I’m ready to push for the win. I really want to keep these things the same for my team, but if you have better suggestions or smarter ways to play with it, then fire away. Now without further ado, here’s my team. Changes I've made are in green.



Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 42 Def
Adamant Nature
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Drain Punch


Last time we saw our hero, his usage was declining due to Gliscor, bulky waters and things like ghosts with their will-o-wisps and long tongues and whatnot. The likes of dragons also being able to set up on him wasn’t helping him either especially since Conkeldurr’s amazing speed is easily overlooked and Stone edge blows. One thing he did have going for him is the abundance of pink blobs and Ferrothorns, and things that usually try to set up hazards all of which he forces to switch away. This allows Conkeldurr to safely put up a sub and proceed to literally blow holes in my opponents team, destroying their FGW cores and hammering away at dragons and bulky ground or water types, all thanks to Sheer Force boosted Ice punch and Thunderpunch. Did anyone say bolt-beam? No? Ok w/e. With STAB Drain punch to complete his moveset Conkeldurr has amazing coverage and a means of meager source of recovery outside of leftovers. The evs give him 101 hp subs and everything else was dumped into defense since the subs break pretty easily and every little bit of defense helps take a hit. I had 28 speed evs before, but I ditched them after forgetting what they helped me outspeed (which I’m not sure if they even did anything). Provided with the synergy of the rest of my team, should my sub break and leave me facing a KO, I can always switch to an appropriate counter and bring Conkeldurr back to party again later.




Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock


When considering Jirachi for this team, I immediately knew that I wanted it to go be a careful special wall. I don’t feel like I need to sing its praises but whatever. It has served as one of the most amazing special walls I have ever used. Some would go for Chansey, but the reason I went straight to Jirachi is because his typing gives him great resistances that make up for his lower hp and sp def. That allows it to be my best answer to dragons and thanks to its natural bulk, it can effectively take attacks from the physical side of the spectrum and wish away damage, spread paralysis and finally flinch the shit out of my opponents. When it comes to fighting or ground attacks, I need only to switch to Celebi or Tornadus-T unless I feel like I need to get the paralysis on him. Fire attacks go straight to Rotom-W. The paralysis especially helps Conkeldurr keep up subs or just outspeed his opponent to get a good hit.




Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed


Odd enough, Dragonite ended up becoming the star when it comes to this team. But that’s usually because it’s always doing clean up as I rarely ever need to/want to switch into him to take a hit until I make a push for the game. Multiscale almost always ensures that I’ll get a Dragon Dance in after which my opponents’ Conkedurr battered team falls quickly and easily. Max attack/speed gets me the most damage possible but I don’t see a need to max out speed since Dragonite doesn’t outspeed anything in OU by one point nor does it tie (barring other D-nites but usually I’ve already set up on them). I have tried running Moxiemence but the most important thing that makes Dragonite an integral part of this team is its Extremespeed. With the rest of my team, I have no room for priority (I don’t miss mach punch on Conkeldurr). As a result, when it comes to picking off a weakened poke that happens to be a thorn in my side, Dragonite is the mon for the job. Outrage and EQ also provide great unresisted coverage and late game all my opponents’ balloons and Skarmorys should have bitten the dust.



Celebi @ Expert Belt
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic


From my experiences battling on PS people are very surprised to see a Celebi especially a nasty plot one. I find that odd since it has always been a great utility poke and even with its bad defensive typing, it does stop Keldeo, Terrakion (sorta) and the plethora of bulky water pokemon. HP fire stops Scizor and Ferrothorn while Giga Drain is there for STAB and extra longevity that is extremely needed. I opted for expert belt over life orb or lefties because I didn’t want to spam lefties on my entire team and life orb recoil really adds up. Expert belt seemed like the next best choice since the only time I will be using Giga drain is when its super effective, in which case I need to get as much damage as possible to recover as much health as I can. Celebi’s typing gives it great synergy with my Rotom as is comes in on the grass moves aimed at it and furthermore, it absorbs status ailments. Earthquakes and Scalds being spammed about also offer Celebi many paths to switch in and either pump up or attack. Similarly to Jirachi, it has great natural bulk while the 220 evs in hp help to maximize this bulk while it gets enough speed to outrun Tyranitar. Celebi also acts as a great lure for Chansey who paralyzes and then tries to Seimic Toss me to death only to let me switch in Conkeldurr and get my sub up.




Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split


This rotom was suggested by Jimbon to help work out my problems with Mamoswine among other things. It has really been a great addition to the team maintaining my volt switch while giving me a bulkier and overall better rotom to handle threats facing my team. It carries out just about the same tasks my old rotom used to barring tricking a scarf, but gives me much more versatility in exchange. A great suggestion that i'm very greatful for.

Previous rotom in-depth (ran a choice scarf w/max spatk and speed)
Speaking of lures, Rotom acts as the best one on my team. Apart from death fodder, I feel like that’s its only job, to lure out something that would fear Conkeldurr and Volt switch away to it. It also acts as a revenge killer, but with a timid nature, its special attack won’t be doing much unless super effective. Trick also helps to cripple the walls that Rotom draws in, though I am usually volt switching out. I used to run a timid nature but switched to a modest nature since the lack of damage on my moves is noticeable to the point that my opponents feel free to switch in mons that take neutral damage from my attacks and risk setting up instead of their pokemon that would resist them. In its place I’ve tried Gastrodon to handle electric attacks and better deal with fire, water and ice pokes, but volt switch is missed a lot its loss slows down my team alot. Not to mention that I lack an electric move other than volt switch and become wary of spikes and toxic spikes if I switch it out. Levitate is also amazing in general and works to take Earthquakes aimed at Jirachi. Water, ice and fire attacks are also a laughable matter when it comes to Rotom until I get burned from a scald or something. HP ice is there to hit dragons, though rarely necessary.




Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SAtk / 248 Spd
Naive Nature
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Icy Wind
- Hurricane


Finally, the last member of my team and arguably the worst choice I’ve made for it. NOT. Tornadus has serves as a very important pokemon on my team mostly because it can seamlessly keep the momentum of my team going as a scout and taunter. U-turn completes my volt turn combo (though Rotom and Tornadus’ types don’t work together, they still help to bring in safer switch ins for the rest of my team). Its lack of power compared to its incarnation form is noticeable so I have tried to compensate with life orb. However, the best thing that Tornadus does for my team is use Icy wind. I’ve seen people running heat wave, hp ice and super power too, but that’s a waste of move slots IMO since Tornadus-T will be switching out a lot more than necessary. I used to run acrobatics and hammer arm, but they forced me to switch out unnecessarily which may sound great with regenerator, but it forces another member on my team to take what may have been an unnecessary hit. Besides Tornadus is clearly not meant to sweep your opponent with its lowered attacking stats. As such Icy wind provides a great bit of utility for the rest of my team to capitalize on. The speed drop allows slower pokes like Conkeldurr and Celebi to set up or KO. Not to mention that all dragons that try to Dragon dance on me are stopped dead and ko’ed. Taunt stops pokemon like Gliscor (who actually can’t do anything to Tornadus other than ice fang, but it gets outsped and ko’ed by icy wind first) and walls that like to set up hazards, spread status (barring hax) or recover health. This allows me to U-Turn on the next turn to see if they switch or not and go make the best possible move that I can. Finally, when I don’t have an answer to my opponents, I hurricane the day away which more often than not gets an opponent’s pokemon into KO range for another one of my pokemon.


Threat List:

Jirachi – This guy wreaks havoc on me since I don’t have anything that outspeeds one and simultaneous poses a threat to it. My best way of dealing with it is switching to Celebi to take the paralysis and then to rotom to try and nail it with a hydro pump. Sub variants are especially troublesome since they more often than not require me to sacrifice a pokemon to take them down.

Moxiemence – Once Jirachi is gone from my team, this thing really tears me a new one. If its only at a +1 then Conkeldurr can come in on a dragon claw and ice punch or I have to wait for Dragonite to try and extremespeed it to death. Most of my losses have been because of this behemoth.

Nothing else comes to mind atm. That is not to say I have no more weaknesses but rather that I have a good way to deal with most other threats that face me.


Importable:
Conkeldurr @ Leftovers
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Def /
Adamant Nature
- ThunderPunch
- Ice Punch
- Substitute
- Drain Punch

Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 224 SDef / 32 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
- Stealth Rock

Dragonite @ Leftovers
Trait: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SDef / 252 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- ExtremeSpeed

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split

Celebi @ Expert Belt
Trait: Natural Cure
EVs: 220 HP / 252 SAtk / 36 Spd
Modest Nature
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Giga Drain
- Nasty Plot
- Psychic

Tornadus-Therian @ Life Orb
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 8 Atk / 252 SAtk / 248 Spd
Naive Nature
- Taunt
- U-turn
- Icy Wind
- Hurricane


Final Thoughts:

So that’s all for my team. If you hadn’t noticed, the format I used for this RMT is almost the same as Delko’s in his Benelux RMT in the RMT archive. Before commenting with suggestions, I really hope that you guys keep in mind that the crux of this team is its type synergy and ability to have an answer for a lot of the common OU pokemon used today. I don’t care if I’m weak to Magikarp’s revenge or something like that because I’ll rarely if ever have to deal with it. Moveset and ev changes are more than welcome but they should be able to do more than my current ones or do a job better. Thanks for all your time reading this RMT everyone. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Now back to lurking in the forums again.
 

Kiyo

the cowboy kid
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With Conkeldurr now having iron fist, i think thats probably a better option over sheer force due to the fact that it powers up drain punch as well as the e punches. and just another thought, although rain is common in the meta. Running hurricane outside of rain is still a risk and it really is your only reliable attacking move on tornadus. if you find you don't use taunt as much as you like i suggest heat wave to surprise the occasional ferro or scizor even. other than that the team looks solid. I would like to point out that if you run into any thunder abuser and celebi is dead, you have no resists for it and may suffer a hard time taking out an agility thunderus t for example. And as you've said about salamence, most dragons can take on this team barring jirachi and d nite when rocks aren't up.
 
With Conkeldurr now having iron fist, i think thats probably a better option over sheer force due to the fact that it powers up drain punch as well as the e punches. and just another thought, although rain is common in the meta. Running hurricane outside of rain is still a risk and it really is your only reliable attacking move on tornadus. if you find you don't use taunt as much as you like i suggest heat wave to surprise the occasional ferro or scizor even. other than that the team looks solid. I would like to point out that if you run into any thunder abuser and celebi is dead, you have no resists for it and may suffer a hard time taking out an agility thunderus t for example. And as you've said about salamence, most dragons can take on this team barring jirachi and d nite when rocks aren't up.
Thanks for the rate Kiyo, i appreciate it. Iron fist hasn't been released yet on conk, but i will be sure to run it when it is.
 
Cool team, sorry im not really rating but rather, asking a question. Why use leftovers on sheer force conkeldurr when you could run recoil-free life orb AND still have drain punch as recovery?
 
Cool team, sorry im not really rating but rather, asking a question. Why use leftovers on sheer force conkeldurr when you could run recoil-free life orb AND still have drain punch as recovery?
Good question! I actually had to ponder on it for a bit and even try out a few battles before I had an answer. I initially never considered life orb because of conk running subs and here why.

While drain punch nets me some important hp recovery against things weak to it, I am better off using drain punch to when I dont have a super effective move available. In those cases, Drain punch does not really serve as recovery, netting me very little health while life orb takes off more. Because of that, you'll see that conkeldurr's longevity is seriously hampered alot and he becomes unable to put up subs (which are what allow him to function so well) while switching in and out especially while rocks are up. Life orb gets me alot of power and some special KOs against the likes of certain bulky waters, but ultimately lefties keeps me alive and lets me do what i need conkeldurr to do.
 
Hi there!

This is a pretty solid team, with a good use of Conkeldurr and the new elemental punches that allow it to deal with some of it's most common switch ins. One thing I have noticed about this team is the weakness to Mamoswine. Mamoswine can easily switch in on Rotom's Volt Switch which forces you to switch out, from there pretty much everything on your team gets hit hard by either of it's main STABs. Your best check Conkeldurr, cannot switch in on Mamoswine either, in fear of being 2HKO'd and you can't do anything back as you lack priority. Tornadus and Dragonite are revenged after Stealth Rock, while Jirachi and Celebi are outsped and straight up OHKO'd by Mamoswine's dual STABs. To help with this weakness, I would highly recommend that you try out a bulkier Rotom over your current Choice Scarf set. A bulkier Rotom does a lot more for your team, it gives you a much better answer to Mamoswine, who is increasing in usage to deal with genies and dragons. It also means have the freedom to take down opposing Mamoswines, or choose to Will-O-Wisp crippling the Mamoswine, or the potential switch in - either way it makes it a lot easier for your Conkeldurr to come in safely. A bulkier Rotom also gives you a much better check against Rain Teams which are incredibly common, not to mention the slower Rotom means your Volt Switch is more likely to go last, giving you more safe switch ins to Conkeldurr who does seem to be the star of this team. The bulky set also means you have a better check against Jirachi. Sub Calm Mind variants will be reluctant to set up on Rotom when you have freedom of moves and you're not locked into Hidden Power [Ice]. More common specially defensive variants are hindered by Will-O-Wisp / Pain Split and make it hard for them to safely pass Wishes to other team mates.

Additionally, if this change does not work for you, you could always try running Earth Power > Hidden Power [Fire] on your Celebi. This means that Sub Calm Mind Jirachi will have a harder time setting up against Celebi. Given that the Sub Calm Mind set is usually run with Rain Teams, Hidden Power [Fire] will not deal super effective damage, and as a result will not break Jirachi's Substitutes after a couple Calm Minds. Earth Power puts more pressure on Jirachi, making it a lot harder to set up Calm Minds, or even pass Wishes in situations against Specially Defensive Jirachi. If you choose to go with this change, you will find that you cannot succesfully beat Ferrothorn in a one on one scenario with Celebi. Ferrothorn being one of the most common switches into Celebi, especially on Rain Teams, it can easily stop Celebi's sweeps dead while it can set up hazards or Gyro Ball, quickly racking up damage on Celebi as you lack recovery. To compensate for this weakness, I think that you should run Superpower > Earthquake on your Dragonite. In terms of coverage, Earthquake really has no merit over Superpower. While Heatran and Magnezone are hit harder by Earthquake, neither of them will appreciate a Superpower. Not to mention that both of the aforementioned Pokemon both commonly use Air Balloon sets to avoid Earthquakes, while Superpower lets you deal with them. Superpower also allows you to hit Terrakion and Tyranitar harder. Most importantly, it allows Dragonite to hit Ferrothorn harder, who walls your current Dragonite set.

Cool team, hope I helped!

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
 
You should run 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 SPe on Tornadus, instead of 248 Spe. The speedtie can make or break, and not having a chance of winning it will bite you later. I don't see the point of Expert Belt really, there's nothing wrong with having a team full of Leftovers, and Life Orb is healed off by Giga Drain.
Outrage and EQ, however, isn't a bad idea actually since you have ways to combat Balloon users, Skarmory and Bronzong.
 
Hi there!

This is a pretty solid team, with a good use of Conkeldurr and the new elemental punches that allow it to deal with some of it's most common switch ins. One thing I have noticed about this team is the weakness to Mamoswine. Mamoswine can easily switch in on Rotom's Volt Switch which forces you to switch out, from there pretty much everything on your team gets hit hard by either of it's main STABs. Your best check Conkeldurr, cannot switch in on Mamoswine either, in fear of being 2HKO'd and you can't do anything back as you lack priority. Tornadus and Dragonite are revenged after Stealth Rock, while Jirachi and Celebi are outsped and straight up OHKO'd by Mamoswine's dual STABs. To help with this weakness, I would highly recommend that you try out a bulkier Rotom over your current Choice Scarf set. A bulkier Rotom does a lot more for your team, it gives you a much better answer to Mamoswine, who is increasing in usage to deal with genies and dragons. It also means have the freedom to take down opposing Mamoswines, or choose to Will-O-Wisp crippling the Mamoswine, or the potential switch in - either way it makes it a lot easier for your Conkeldurr to come in safely. A bulkier Rotom also gives you a much better check against Rain Teams which are incredibly common, not to mention the slower Rotom means your Volt Switch is more likely to go last, giving you more safe switch ins to Conkeldurr who does seem to be the star of this team. The bulky set also means you have a better check against Jirachi. Sub Calm Mind variants will be reluctant to set up on Rotom when you have freedom of moves and you're not locked into Hidden Power [Ice]. More common specially defensive variants are hindered by Will-O-Wisp / Pain Split and make it hard for them to safely pass Wishes to other team mates.

Additionally, if this change does not work for you, you could always try running Earth Power > Hidden Power [Fire] on your Celebi. This means that Sub Calm Mind Jirachi will have a harder time setting up against Celebi. Given that the Sub Calm Mind set is usually run with Rain Teams, Hidden Power [Fire] will not deal super effective damage, and as a result will not break Jirachi's Substitutes after a couple Calm Minds. Earth Power puts more pressure on Jirachi, making it a lot harder to set up Calm Minds, or even pass Wishes in situations against Specially Defensive Jirachi. If you choose to go with this change, you will find that you cannot succesfully beat Ferrothorn in a one on one scenario with Celebi. Ferrothorn being one of the most common switches into Celebi, especially on Rain Teams, it can easily stop Celebi's sweeps dead while it can set up hazards or Gyro Ball, quickly racking up damage on Celebi as you lack recovery. To compensate for this weakness, I think that you should run Superpower > Earthquake on your Dragonite. In terms of coverage, Earthquake really has no merit over Superpower. While Heatran and Magnezone are hit harder by Earthquake, neither of them will appreciate a Superpower. Not to mention that both of the aforementioned Pokemon both commonly use Air Balloon sets to avoid Earthquakes, while Superpower lets you deal with them. Superpower also allows you to hit Terrakion and Tyranitar harder. Most importantly, it allows Dragonite to hit Ferrothorn harder, who walls your current Dragonite set.

Cool team, hope I helped!

Rotom-W @ Leftovers
Trait: Levitate
EVs: 112 HP / 144 Def / 252 SAtk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- Pain Split
Hey thanks for the rate Jimbon! And your rotom is great great and i'm definitely going to run it as it does work out alot of the kinks i have on this team. As for the superpower vs eq, i'm actually gonna stay with eq because the rest of my team does a great job of weakening my opponents steels and getting rid of those balloons is also a priority for me. With superpower i lose out on the offensive boost provided by dragon dance and lose some defense which would actually be very harmful to dragonite if my opponent packs priority and multiple steel types (especially jirachi whose body slams and iron heads would then dispatch me). Also, you've provided the best feedback so far and I am extremely grateful for that so thanks again!


You should run 8 Atk / 248 SpA / 252 SPe on Tornadus, instead of 248 Spe. The speedtie can make or break, and not having a chance of winning it will bite you later. I don't see the point of Expert Belt really, there's nothing wrong with having a team full of Leftovers, and Life Orb is healed off by Giga Drain.
Outrage and EQ, however, isn't a bad idea actually since you have ways to combat Balloon users, Skarmory and Bronzong.
Thanks for the suggestions FSLAR! I've always been wondering if i needed to run max speed or not and so far i haven't since tornadus t has never had to face another one. I'll probably take evs out of atk since they are only there for u-turn which has no purpose except when it comes to scouting (especially since i dont even ko celebi with it). Life orb on celebi would be more harmful than it is a help since celebi has what i like to think of as the perfect amount of bulk for it and losing even a little of that health after entry hazards have done there job puts me in a position to be killed koed by pokemon that i use it to check (terrakion is number one on that list). Furthermore, i more often than not find myself using psychic over giga drain unless giga drain is super effective so the recovery that you would expect to come from it rarely does. And with a nasty plot and expert belt under my belt i can use giga drain to ko most water types and even t-tar in the sand and optimize recovery in those cases.
 

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