Can someone give me some feedback on this usage of Focus Sash?

Allosteric

Allosteric

Um, I'm new to Smogon and competitive battling in general, but I think I may have thought of a new use for Focus Sash. I looked on the forums and didn't really find anything about this strategy, but if it's already common knowledge, feel free to close the thread.

Okay, enough preamble. I was thinking of a way to counter Choice Band users (or heavy-hitting Pokemon in general) the other day when Kangaskhan came to mind. Here's what I came up with:

Kangaskhan
EVs and Nature: I'm still new, so I don't really know the best ones.
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Scrappy
1. Counter
2. Return
3. Reversal
4. Outrage/filler

The strategy is to take a hit that would ordinarily kill you (of course, you'd have to switch after another of your Pokemon fainted), but the Focus Sash would leave you with 1 HP, and you'd use Counter on the same turn, guaranteeing the opponent's defeat in most cases. You could then make use of Reversal, although without a Salac berry it wouldn't be as reliable as a set tailor-made around Reversal. Return and Outrage... I just kind of threw those on there.

It works with other Pokemon besides Kangaskhan, and it works with Mirror Coat too. As for counters to this strategy, special sweepers would beat Counter and vice-versa, and Hail/Sandstorm teams would render it completely useless, unless you also happened to be an Ice/Rock/Steel/Ground type.

So... that's about it. Criticism plz.
 
Sounds situational and I believe one of the PBR vids on youtube had something similar. Having no SS running, making sure not to take previous damage on the switch in, and predicting with Counter/Mirror Coat just to take out one Pokemon is a lot to ask for, IMO.

Salac-less Reversal is also risky considering how many speed demons there are this gen, not to mention the new priority moves.
 
If I were to employ this, I'd roll this strategy.

Electrode@Focus Sash
-Mirror Coat
-Explosion
-Filler
-Filler

Would be a good counter to CGMence leads me thinks. Mirror Coat the first attack, ggpo Mence and then Explode on whatever comes in. The Explode could be hugely predictable, but it could be a huge surprise set.
 
Most people tend to use Substitute to bring HP down to 1 so they can ensure they're alive while the substitutes take all the statuses thrown at it. Reversal and Flail start afterwards.

Focus Sash can be used for that, but since Kangaskhan tends to be a slightly bulky Pokemon, he won't get 1HKO'd saved by Focus Sash. Focus Sash will ONLY save you if the move would've been a 1HKO from the first hit the opponent throws. There's an OK chance he'll live if the opponent's move wasn't Fighting.

Cons of using Kangaskhan - He's not particularly fast to outspeed things that'll stop his Flail/Reversal spree.
Pros of using Kangakhan - Scrappy makes it so Ghosts can't wall.

All in all, I find it more effective to use better Pokemon, such as Lucario who is SandStorm resistant because of Steel Typing who can use Substitutes, Salac Berry, and Buffs to help Reversal get the job done. Plus, if a Ghost comes in to wall, they'll be eating a Sword Danced Shadow Claw in the face.

A really good use of Focus Sash was made by someone on these forums a couple weeks back. Forgot what his name was, but this is what he posted. (I saved it to a Word Document for easy access.)

Don't underestimate Ninjask... I was messing around some time ago and came up with this lead:

Adamant Ninjask @ Focus Sash. Ability: Speed Boost

Sword Dance + X-Scissor + Sunny Day + Baton Pass

Hilarity. Swords Dance against anything because you will survive with Focus Sash. BatonPass next turn. If you are facing T-Tar, use Sunny Day so that Sand Stream doesn't kill you. If T-Tar dances, Sword Dance next turn (You still have Focus Sash). If Tyranitar Taunts instead, 2HKO it. (or OHKO with a Sword Dance). If it Substitutes, break the Substitute. When your Focus Strip is used, Baton Pass next turn. At worst you are passing one speed boost, which could be enough for say... Sword Dance/Rock Polish/Stone Edge/Earthquake Rhyperior (especially with Sunny Day halving water attacks. Nobody uses Haze, and Cradily gets Sword Dance now.

You only have a problem if specifically you face a T-Tar lead who taunts first turn, uses your Focus Strip second turn and then switches out, unless your opponent randomly Roars at some point.

Yeah ok, so random Rock Blast leads will hax you too.
 
Okay, thanks for all of your responses. I had to read Striker's post about 3 times, but I think I understand everything. I'm thinking about replacing it with a Cloud Nine Golduck with Focus Sash; at least then I have a chance against Tyranitar.



...I am so screwed if I ever fight one of you on Wi-Fi.
 
Allosteric said:
Okay, thanks for all of your responses. I had to read Striker's post about 3 times, but I think I understand everything. I'm thinking about replacing it with a Cloud Nine Golduck with Focus Sash; at least then I have a chance against Tyranitar.



...I am so screwed if I ever fight one of you on Wi-Fi.
Click to expand...
Well... Actually, I'm not big into strategy. I can't come up with elaborate strategies myself, except for the Skill Swapping the No Armor ability of Machamp idea onto a Pokemon with 1HKO moves. Just try to grasp the ideas you can and eventually you'll catch on to how we think on these forums.

If you had any problems with the explanation, I'll put it on simple terms. Basically, Kangaskhan isn't fast enough or weak enough defensively to pull Focus Sash off well. Since he isn't Salacing, he'll get outspeeded by the opponents Pokemon who comes in after the Counter kill. Focus Sash can only protect you if you were going to die in one hit. He has 105 Base Health, 80 Base Def, and 80 Base Sp. Def. That's above average defensively for a Pokemon who'll be used to sweep. Defensively impaired Pokemon like Ninjask can pull off Focus Sash great, because he'll almost always be killed with 1 hit, especially if you put no EVs into Hp/Def/Sp.Def.

Kangaskhan's also susceptible to Sandstream and Hail, but chances are you won't try to do this while it's Hailing and your opponent won't try to make it Hail on their turn because they're either outspeeded and killed by Reversal or they're fast enough to kill you because you only have 1 HP. Sandstream and Speed is the only problem in 1 on 1 fights while using a Reversaler. Hail will only kill you if they for some dumb reason have an Abomasnow on their team. They're really uncommon to see outside of Hail teams.

Hope that clears up some things for you. =)

Also, Focus Strip Golduck would actually be a pretty good idea if it could use Flail or Reversal. >___>;
 
IMO, some of the best pokemon to use Focus Strip are Electric types. One of the main themes with Electric types is that they tend to excel in speed, have decent-great special attack, and for the most part, have crappy defense. Pikachu, Raichu, Jolteon, Electrode. As preptime brought up, the Electrode set could work, since Electrode is the 3rd fastest pokemon in the game (only outsped by Deoxys-E and Ninjask) and wouldn't need the Salac. Jolteon could use Focus strip to get in an agility and then pass it on to another teammate. And Raichu has so many options. Raichu can either use agility to get in some more speed, or get in a Nasty Plot and then tear things apart with Raichu's amazing options of a movepool. Or go with Pikachu and Agility. Pikachu has the power to attack from both sides thanks to the new effects of light ball also affecting physical attack, so Pikachu wouldn't neccesarily need Nasty Plot. Just an agility to outspeed everything else.
 
sarunibi said:
IMO, some of the best pokemon to use Focus Strip are Electric types. One of the main themes with Electric types is that they tend to excel in speed, have decent-great special attack, and for the most part, have crappy defense. Pikachu, Raichu, Jolteon, Electrode. As preptime brought up, the Electrode set could work, since Electrode is the 3rd fastest pokemon in the game (only outsped by Deoxys-E and Ninjask) and wouldn't need the Salac. Jolteon could use Focus strip to get in an agility and then pass it on to another teammate. And Raichu has so many options. Raichu can either use agility to get in some more speed, or get in a Nasty Plot and then tear things apart with Raichu's amazing options of a movepool. Or go with Pikachu and Agility. Pikachu has the power to attack from both sides thanks to the new effects of light ball also affecting physical attack, so Pikachu wouldn't neccesarily need Nasty Plot. Just an agility to outspeed everything else.
Click to expand...

If pikachu has focus sash, he can't carry light ball. Raichu would be better.

Of course, all of these are shut down by sandstorm (In UU it's ok thought). I think steel/ground/rock types would be better users of focus sash. (For OU)
 
I actually kinda like this set, however it is a bit situational, but it could certainly be amusing if you ever managed to pull it off..

I do recommend using Lucario in the place of Kangaskahn. Sandstorm immunity is vital, but it also has the advantage of learning some priority moves to protect it from faster pokemon. It also having a much higher attack stat than Kanga.. and much worse HP..

Yeah, it certainly wont be gamebreaking, but people like Nobie will love it imo..

Have a nice day.
 
Wow, everyone on here is so... nice. And helpful. It's such a big change of pace from Gamefaqs, where everyone just posts a single snobby sentence that doesn't answer your question.

As for the Golduck moveset I mentioned earlier, I meant simply using Cloud Nine to nullify Sandstream, using Focus Sash to survive a Stone Edge, and then just 2HKOing it with Surf since Golduck is faster. I guess I should have been more specific.
 
ya, ive seen a bunch of these sets in the battle tower. focus sash lucario with counter is fearsome.
 
Rampardos*Focus Sash
Rock Cart
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Crunch

something I saw on one of the discussion threads. looks like it could work, but as always watch out for QA users
 
I gave FS+Counter/Mirror Coat some serious thought recently and I came to the conclusion that unless it has Sandstorm immunity AND you have something to clear Stealth Rock, you are forced to lead with the Pokemon, in which case it's a gamble on whether you have the right move for what they are going to hit you with. Mirror Coat Swampert sounds kinda cool, though. It can eliminate a random Grass Knot user and potentially clear the way for a sweeper.

Once Competitor comes out I will look into this more because I think it might have potential; I'm too lazy to manually look up moves/types etc.
 
if it were me, i'd try to get a poke that has more common weaknesses and use a similar set that the kangashkhan has. are there any grasses that could learn counter and reversal? wait, can't breloom?
 
There is also Golduck (negates sandstorm), Abomasnow, Shedinja, Jibacoil, and Tyranitar himself that could conceivably make use of Focus Sash.

Shedinja is probably the best for it. Although no ideas come to mind right now
 
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