CAP 11 CAP 11 - Concept Submissions

[Mattman324]

Throwing my hat into the ring. Sort of a general concept, but bear with me here.

Name: The Great Supporter.

General Description: A pokemon who can support in a variaty of ways, but if it trys to wall or sweep... it would fail miserably.

Justification: Supporting is a... difficult task, to say the least. Many pokemon discourage supporting, and having mons like Colossoil and Kitsunoh certainly don't help. But... supporting isn't just setting up Stealth Rock and dieing miserably. Supporting is, by definition, giving support to others. Now, this can mean a variaty of things. DUGTRIO could easily be considered a supporter, as his revenge killing can help - or support - another's sweep by destroying the counters.

Questions that need to be answered:

• A supporter needs to be able to take a hit. How can we make it able to take hits without making it a wall?
• A supporter could be considered a revenge killer. How much power can we give it without it becoming an offensive force?
• A GOOD supporter is counterintuitive, in example able to beat Colossoil and friends without faultering. How can we do this without, again, making it an offensive force?
• What would make this supporter better than Dugtrio, or Fidget, or the like?
• Does the metagame NEED a supporter like this?

Explination: All teams focusing around a single sweep NEED a supporter. There are many good supporters, and perhaps we do not need another one. But this one is meant to be a supporter who can do supporting on more than one level. Weavile could never set up Spikes, and Fidget could never revenge kill - what if we combined the two into one? Now, this seems broken, and indeed, the Support Charictaristic says that a "pokemon who can set up another's sweep over a signifigant portion of the metagame is broken", but usually these pokemon can also do something themselves (Groudon, Kyogre, and Froslass could all attempt sweeps thanks to stat distribution, and Deoxys E could by movepool.), wheras our supporter would be unable to do anything AT ALL besides support. It would have no offensive movepool to speak of (aside obvious STAB moves, and we can limit those to an extent), and it's stats outside of Speed (Necisary for a good supporter) would be crap (And maybe the defenses could be adjusted to take a hit).

 

[Vaz]

Vaz
The idea of seeing if copying the opponent as a way of countering the opponent is effective interests me for sure. I'm kind of confused with the way you worded your explanation, though. "A Pokémon that is able to copy the features of an opponent in a way that uses what features it has has to defeat it." Do you mean that this Concept will copy something about the opponent and use that against it? I can see some ways we can go about building this, so it's not something that can't be done.

Yes, that is what I meant. Sorry if I overcomplicated my sentences.

 

[toshimelonhead]

(I approved this one with tennisace this time)

Name: Gender means Something
General Description: This pokemon will make gender relevant in the OU metagame. So many people ignore this, but moves like Attract and abilities like Cute Charm and Rivalry are an underrated surprise at the UU level and are more relevant ingame at lower levels.

Justification: Gender is one of the few unexplored ideas in the OU environment because most of the time, gender means absolutely nothing. The vast majority of pokemon stay as male or go without a gender as in the case of Celebi and Jirachi. Anyone who has played Whitney’s Miltank in HGSS knows how much of a pain Attract can be, but no one uses Attract (or Confuse Ray) for that matter competitively because opponents just switch without side effects.

Questions To Be Answered:

With so many genderless pokemon (Jirachi, Celebi, Rotom, etc.) does gender really matter anymore?
What ways is gender exploitable besides Attract and Rivalry?
How should this function otherwise, as a support or offensive pokemon?
Will nongendered pokemon see a rise in usage as a “counter” to CAP 11?
And the most important question: How will artists make sure the female version is safe for work? Lol (kidding, of course)

Explanation:

The challenge with this concept is that it is really easy to make other traits overpower its main purpose without making CAP 11 obsolete, kind of like how Krilowatt's Magic Guard took away its focus as a utility counter and instead as a bulky sweeper. The Nidos, Miltank, Clefable, and Lopunny are the only pokes that I know use gender to any extent, but the Nidos are NU/UU and Clefable rarely, if ever uses its gender to an advantage. Lopunny is the closest thing to this concept but is rarely used even in NU. I do not know of a current pokemon that changing genders is helpful at all in OU currently, but perhaps that can change. Current abilities that are gender induced are Rivalry and Cute Charm, which are not great but plausible for this to work. Typing can be just about anything here.

 

[doominic77]

Name: Ultimate Defensive Staller
General Description: A pokemon with just above average defensive stats, low attack but a huge amount of resistances.
Justification: Will introduce a new wall into the competitive battling scene that will totally wall many pokemon but still be walled by some pokemon.
Questions To Be Answered:
How will a wall with many resistances be handelled in the competive battling scene?

Will this wall stand out from all the others?

Will this wall be a viable option over other commonly used walls?

Will only just above average defensive stats be a enough of a base for this pokemon with many resistances?


Explanation: This pokemon can be a wall and can easily utilise status affects. It can't really attack because of low attacking stats but it can slowly wear down pokemon and stall.

 

[EdgeHead]

Figured I'd give it a shot, here we go

Name - Magnet Rise Set-Up Sweeper (Rising Surpriser)
Description - A pokemon that uses it's glaring weakness to it's advantage in order to get a free turn of set-up and throw a monkey wrench into the opponent's plans.

Justification - Recently I've been using Magnezone with Magnet Rise to some pretty good effect in OU, catching a lot of things like Gliscor who never thought they'd need anything other than Earthquake to deal with Magnezone, and it really doesn't have anything else to threaten Magnezone. Well, Magnezone is a good attacker but lacks the boosting options to really take advantage of the extra turn of set-up and the general discombobulation opponents have when a pokemons biggest weakness is removed. Of the other OU pokemon that can learn Magnet Rise - Lucario, Electivire, Metagross, etc., none of them have enough of a problem with ground attacks to warrant using it. But what if there was a pokemon that could?

This pokemon should be able to utilize Magnet Rise, and take advantage of the free switch in to boost. Decent enough that it can manage on it's own two feet if it can't rise up, but really shines as a late game sweeper when it can use Magnet Rise and start boosting. It's a relatively unexplored niche that can really test the way people try to exploit weaknesses. It also adds a new level of threat to switching, testing things people think would be sure-fire counters, and seeing how the rest of their team can stack up when something you thought you had covered is suddenly devoid of it's biggest weakness. It also adds a new option for unconventional sweeping outside of weather, trick room, and gravity

Questions To Be Answered
-Can Magnet Rise be a viable sweeping tool in OU?
-How much of a difference can the sudden removal of a key weakness make for a pokemon built around it?
-How prepared are teams to deal with a pokemon that uses it's key weakness to get a free turn of setup and stop a counter?
-How will the switching game change in the OU metagame with the presence of a pokemon meant to take advantage of pokemon that, on paper, look like sure-fire counters?

Explanation - It's fairly obvious that this pokemon's type is crucial to this set. A 4x weakness to ground is most needed, but it also can't have too many other weaknesses. Electric/Poison was a type I was thinking of, it's got the 4x ground weakness but other than that, it's only got a 2x psychic weakness to worry about, as well as some neat resistances like fighting, electric, and steel, as well as a toxic immunity. The trade off of course is poison being pretty much the worst STAB.

It needs some bulk, because otherwise it's weakness removal won't make as much of a difference. Slightly above-average speed, in the 90s range, would be ideal, counter balanced with unimpressive offensive stats. As far as movesets go, a variety of boost moves such as Nasty Plot, Dragon Dance, etc. (could go special or physical) and an offensive movepool that is varied but not ridiculous. It's ability should be used to keep the opponent from regaining control of the situation. Suction Cups could be useful to prevent Roar/Whirlwind ruining your fun, since it's intended to stay in there for a while.

This pokemon isn't intended to be a top-tier offensive threat, but rather an interesting niche pokemon that, using Magnet Rise, can throw opponents off balance and really test the reliance people have on type-matching.

 

[Dr. Attack]

Name: Ticking Time Bomb
General Description: A pokemon that is very powerful but cannot stay in battle for very long.
Justification: Will balance the metagame against both stall teams and set up sweepers.

Questions To Be Answered:
Is it possible to make a strong pokemon that must continually switch out or die?
Will this pokemon have a positive effect in the metagame?

 

[chocoloco]

Chocolatey CAP Concept

Here we go…

Name: Defensive Weather Abuser

General Description: A Pokémon who abuses weather condition(s), in order to gain a defensive advantage, rather than the ability to sweep.

Justification: I've noticed that in the current metagame, most weather abusers attempt to set up a specific weather condition in order to subsequently sweep a team. However, this leads to us overlooking the defensive capabilities that a preferable weather could have for a specific Pokémon or team.

Questions To Be Answered:

• What do current weather conditions have to offer from a defensive standpoint?
• Could Pokémon that abuse weather conditions in the current metagame (such as Kingdra), be exploited against themselves with the introduction of a Pokémon that specializes in this unexplored niche?
• Would the introduction of such a Pokémon lead to a revolution for widespread use of weather conditions, or possibly, the extinction of such strategies… how would the metagame change?
• Can existing Pokémon be used in such a manner that encourages the abuse of weather conditions defensively?

Explanation:

As stated above, I feel like weather conditions play a very important part of the metagame since their introduction in Gen II, and with each generation that comes and goes, this specific part of the metagame seems to evolve at a faster rate than the rest (with the introduction of new weather conditions, abilities, and moves).

With the release of Pokémon Black and White close at hand, it seems like a pretty good bet that there will be some sort of addition to this facet of the metagame, and exploring a defensive possibility to exploit this could lead to a highly revolutionized and altered metagame, even if the only change is our stance towards weather-based strategies. For this, I feel that having a Pokémon that specializes in this aspect of weather conditions could give us clues as to how to further evolve the standard metagames.

In my opinion, the Pokémon should most likely excel in defensive stats and HP, making it very bulky, and should have a movepool that would allow it to not only set up different weather conditions, but take advantage of those set by their opponents. I don't want to see this Pokémon evolve into some sort of mixed sweeper, since that would only bring us back to the place where we stand now, and I'd like to see it evolve more as a wall, staller, or maybe some sort of support Pokémon that would somehow be able to abuse weather to give the rest of the team an edge.

Abilities such as Rain Dish (HP recovery under weather condition) could work, but I'd prefer to see a Pokémon that doesn't only abuse a specific weather condition, but multiple (not necessarily at the same time, but that at least gives you an option as to what you want to abuse/defend against). This would give a greater opportunity to apply strategies to non-CAP Pokémon.

I STRONGLY ENCOURAGE PEOPLE IN CHARGE NOT TO USE FORECAST AS AN ABILITY IF THIS CONCEPT IS CHOSEN, SINCE WE'LL ONLY END UP WITH A DEFENSIVE VERSION OF CASTFORM (who wouldn't exist in real Pokémon), AND NOT A METAGAME ALTERING NICHE. Also, the fact that Forecast is only affected by Sunny Day, Rain Dance and Hail bothers me honestly. :\​

Note: This concept differs from Ezekiel's Whetherman because it isn't meant to "turn the tables on weather users", but instead to introduce a "viable defensive approach to weather". The Defensive Weather Abuser, as mentioned above, should be able to conjure up its own weather conditions if need be, but should lack the capabilities with which to sweep, instead having more viable defensive strategies.

 

[Deck Knight]

Another round.

Sextus' Pivot:

The concept is really too weakly defined as it stands. It's basically a generic support mon with a few random ideas thrown in explanation.

Shadow Kirby's Speed Controller:

This is really a more narrow version of the Trick Room concept proposed earlier by Dark Kaiser. Bronzong already does a lot of this very well, and I don't see much room for exploration on the concept.

Detroitlolcat's Do or Die

This sounds a lot like a strong offensive attacker, and my greatest fear is that something that poses enough of an offensive threat to stop something else cold will become a sweeper all its own. The problem will be how it actually addresses these threats, since Dragon Dancers will require either Scarf or insane speed to address, and stat-boosters like Infernape already have impressive offense, but stat-boosters are just a bonus. There's also the matter of switching in to these offensive threats, which gives them a free turn to stat-boost, and if we tried Unaware again it would have an already established dampening effect on stat-boosting moves we've explored already.

Bippa201's Double "Powder" Lead:

Double Status is more prevalent than you would think, it just doesn't always take the form of Sleep + Paralysis. Because of the distribution of Toxic it's usually Toxic Poisoning + Paralysis or TP + Burn. ToxicTran actually runs on this concept. There's also a Smeargle lead with just such a set, Spore/Thunder Wave/Spikes/Stealth Rock IIRC, or something to that effect. Because Steels and Flyers/Levitators are common, Toxic Spikes + Thunder Wave is also common. I'm not sure how much ground there is to explore here in OU.

Drahkun's Anti-residual damage:

This was basically the premise of Colossoil, to stop what were called "Secondary Effects" like Status and hazards. It worked out pretty well and I'm not sure what we could learn from a concept with such a similar function.

Vaz's Copycat:

There are a couple of limited moves that can help achieve this end, but ultimately relying your opponent to dictate your strategic options isn't really viable. If it tried to use Transform it would take one turn to switch in and a second to transform into the opponent. Even assuming an unlikely custom ability to get that turn back with none of Transform's drawbacks, you still have monumental problems with many popular OU pokemon. Bronzong largely walls itself, Most of the Steels, Dragons, and Ghosts pack moves super-effective against themselves (or the odd case of Bronzong, which completely walls itself), so that direction seems nonviable.

Moves like Copycat and Me First are fairly unexplored territory, and do work extraordinarily well against Ghosts and Dragons (especially something like a 115+ Spe Me First Pokemon).

Overall though this isn't so much a function on its own as much as it is a an exploratory gimmick. It's function is basically defined by its opponent, and given your opponent control over your strategy is bad in any matchup.

shrang's Quickstaller:

I'm intrigued by the concept but I'm not quite sure how Stall Mewtwo applies since I'm not sure how popular the set is, and even excluding Mewtwo's obvious offensive capabilities, 106/90/90 Defenses and 130 Speed is basically an amalgam of Swampert and Aerodactyl. Fidgit already contributes to the idea of quickstall but its best move is arguably Encore, which causes stall a lot of problems. The Pokemon would also have to avoid Taunt or it may become just another anti-stall Pokemon. My worry is that it will become just another fast hazard user (or else a sweeper that plugs holes against pokemon stall has difficulty with), and won't really fulfill the concept of Quickstalling any better than Fidgit did.

I talked to Fuzz and Vader a bit on irc about this. It's a good concept, I was just trying to wrap my head around it.

callforjudgement's Stealth Rock Punisher:

The closest thing I could think of to this (without any custom abilities/moves) would be something like a Scrappy Rapid Spinner to address hazards in general. Stealth Rock as a move is almost inherently nonpunishable, which is why it features a slot on almost every team. It's useful on all kinds of teams and ultimately for every time Stealth Rock is used it takes two turns to remove. One to switch in a Spinner and another to Spin. Anti-hazard style concepts have been tried before, I don't see any new ground here.

noobiess the summer love:

Fuzz stole my Solarbeam (err, Thunder) on this one. Pyroak testing answered a lot of questions about Sunny weather and I can't see an end product that won't look very simular to Pyroak emerging fro this.

TFT's It can do it all!... Kinda!:

Krillowatt was based around this idea, only it was more specified to countering many threats, just not all at once. It was very enlightening territory to explore, but Krillowatt was the most recent CAP and there's no need to do another one like this right now. Lack of direction also hurts this, as you don't really give us a function for it.

Little Battler's True Anti-Lead:

The most glaring weakness in this is that a lead's primary role is not to set up hazards or screens per se but rather to build momentum for your own team. A Pokemon capable of addressing all other leads and all other anti-leads would look eerily similar to a Deoxys-Speed sans hazards. The problem is that since this doesn't build much momentum for your own team, your opponent is simply going to switch to a favorable attacker because it knows the worst that can happen is something like Fake Out or Taunt. The coverage, power, and speed required would make this much more akin to sweeping than it would to being an anti-lead.

Defyin's the Ultimate Trapper:

My general problem with trapping concepts is it's hard to build a middle ground between the obvious flaws of Dugtrio and the inherent brokenness of Wobbufett. There's a few niche rolls inbetween with Magnezone trapping Steels and Pursuit Scizor/Weavile/Tyranitar, but a lot of the different incarnations of trapping are already borne out. I'm going to reference Colossoil again because of just how well it can trap the core of OU stall. Trapping is a strong part of what made it "stop the secondary."

kd24's Slowing Down the Game:

This reminds me of "Paralysis Abusing Tank" concept I had for Cyclohm. Paralysis is the most popular method of lowering speed and the most immediate. We've had a few Trick Room concepts that help reverse the role of Speed in the metagame but Trick Room has its own limitations, the biggest being its temporary effectiveness. Speed droppers like Scary Face and String Shot also have their drawbacks, same with Icy Wind and Rock Tomb's low power.

My biggest fear is that there are already a lot of excellent Pokemon that can paralyze and I don't think adding another is going to help break Speed's grapple on the metagame. Ultimately the fact you need to use a move (or rely on Static to paralyze) a faster opponent means they have the option to hit you or cripple you first.

It's not a bad concept by any means, but I'd wonder how you'd get to the end result.

DougJustDoug's Perfect Mate:

A woman.

This is interesting because it would essentially be designing a new core for the OU metagame. I think it has a lot of potential provided we pick the right partner. Part of Pokemon is team dynamics, and a core goes very far beyond the general all-purpose support mon. The only issue is that while it starts out fairly unlimited, unless a good partner is selected the limitations will come on hard, fast, and early. There are already a few Pokemon I think could be part of a versatile core, Bronzong being the prime example because it lacks recovery but has excellent support. A partner that could reliably pass Wish to Bronzong and take Fire Attacks for it (and possibly Ground to aid Heatproof Bronzong) would be a great boon. A great offensive combo spawned by CAP was Colossoil + Staraptor, where Colossoil removes many of the threats that let Staraptor sweep by either Taunting or destroying them. If the partner selection is right it would be interesting to discuss what the core should do and whether the counters should be to the core or just to the specific CAP.

TPM's The Knight Who Says Ni:

This is sort of like FalreBlitz's The Underdog in it's flaws are relatively unspecified and people will end up arguing how much of a flaw something is. Concepts should generally be based around what a CAP Creation should do, not what it can't do or what its limits are. Limits will be built in by the more conservative users as the process goes on, you rarely need to worry about it. Strength/Weakness ratios in general are difficult to qualify because a Pokemon's strengths are what allow it to do its job. Setting out to make weaknesses is a poor starting point, especially when the initial strength is unspecified.

~The Knight Who Says Nay.

Jibaku's Offensive Trick Room user:

Trick Room's -7 Priority is the biggest impediment to any Trick Room abuser. Combined with the functional 4-turn duration after use makes it incredibly difficult to take advantage of, since even phazers can stop it before the effect comes up. My thought process here is somewhat like "what if Rhyperior got Trick Room." It's slow and its bulky, but it is in the end an offensive Pokemon, and its the kind of defenses you'd want (probably with lower numbers but better typing) if you intend to set it up reliably. The biggest problem in designing the Pokemon will be trying to justify Trick Room if it is much more immediately threatening with a Choice Band or Choice Specs despite the low speed. Trick Room + Stat Up takes two moveslots, leaving little room for coverage, at least of the STAB Super-Effective Kind.

It's not a problem with the concept so much as it is Trick Room's own internal liabilities, and the fact that despite Fidgit getting it previously, Persistent is not a canonical ability.

HouseFantastic's Opposite-stat Wall and Counter:

There is a lack of clarity here in exactly what this is supposed to do. The thrust of it seems to be you want to make a CAP that has been like most of our other CAPs: Way too versatile for its own good. The other problem is it doesn't have a specific function, it's just a generic Pokemon with a good movepool. There are plenty of those already, and people are getting aped up about Salamence for doing exactly that sort of "do I switch or do I try to correctly predict which nuke Mence will use?"

Mattman324's The Great Supporter:

The biggest question for your concept should be: What exactly are you supporting? Fidgit is arguably the greatest generic supporter ever built, capable of supporting any team. It was supposed to be the ultimate Utility, which basically means all of the oddball tasks team members get assigned like Spinner, Cleric, etc. Do you want to support a particular offensive or defensive core? This is pretty close to the vague criteria but still drifts into directionless territory because there's no coherent vision. Even in your questions you can't really define what you mean by "support."

toshimelonhead's Gender Means Something:

This is interesting from the simulator perspective if only because most players leave their gendered pokemon Male. But as far as something like a wifi metagame would be concerned, this would be a crap chute against everything but specifically gendered pokemon like Blissey, you'd have a 50-50 shot at your Pokemon being effective. Rivalry + Attract is one way to go about it, but still leaves a lot to be desired.

Sadly, Gender has a much greater effect on breeding than battling. I'm not sure how much we could explore because we'd end up with a generically good Pokemon that maybe made people change how they act when they plug Pokemon into Shoddy Battle, but not much else.

---

Not sure when Fuzz is closing up show. I'll edit in as many as I can.

 

[chocoloco]

are we allowed to comment our opinions about other people's concepts? or should we wait until later to do this… (or do we not have a say? o_o)

sorry, I'm just sorta new in CAP :\
(been lurking for a while, but never active)

 

[bubbly]

Name: PP Drain
General Description: A pokemon who can exploit the typical low PP of high powered moves in the metagame by draining said PP.
Justification:
First of all, PP is one of the most underutilised but potentially viable parts of the metagame. At some time or another, all of the OU pokemon with Pressure have attempted a PP stall set. Spiritomb even had a brief period in vogue using Spite. PP is still a useful mechanic to pokemon like Zapdos even though they don't (and can't) go out of their way to abuse it. Traditionally, a pokemon which can stall out PP such as those mentioned doesn't have to drain all the PP out in one go - PP is lost normally in battle too. I fought a battle a month ago on Wifi to test out my theories on PP draining viability - I was down 2 pokemon, but ended up winning easily, because my opponents pokemon soon started using Struggle and essentially being set up fodder.

Basically, I feel that PP has the potential to be an important game mechanic which should be explored.

Questions To Be Answered:
-Is PP draining viable in such a fast paced metagame?
-To make a dedicated PP drain effective would it still be possible to create a balanced pokemon?
-Is PP draining potentially too potent a strategy? If a pokemon runs out of vital PP it can be little more than death fodder.
-What effect would PP loss have on many of the powerful offensive pokemon of OU who rely on low PP moves (Fire Blast, Icebeam, etc)?
-Would pokemon start to use less powerful moves with more PP, e.g. offensive Suicune using Surf over Hydro Pump?
-How could the PP be drained? Passively but slowly, e.g. Pressure, or actively and much faster but sacrificing the pokemons ability to keep itself healthy (e.g. Spite-like).


Explanation:
Draining PP can have both a significant defensive and offensive edge. Defensively, most powerful attackers can only target walls with one move - each moveslot is dedicated to as wide coverage as possible, meaning if the PP for one move runs out, that pokemon can be virtually incapable of damaging a certain threat.
Furthermore, most powerful offensive moves have limited PP. The average amount of PP (which I calculated roughly by multiplying usage and just going down the list of "viable moves" factoring in the PP ups is about 20. For powerful offense, this drops to about 14 (again factoring in PP Ups). I think that the effect of quick loss of PP on a pokemon which relies on such moves (e.g. Heatran and Fire Blast) would be fascinating and well worth a CAP dedicated to it.
Offensively, PP draining can be a great way of allowing others to sweep, since the usual countering moves will soon run out. Stall can lose viability against a dedicated PP drain too.
To illustrate the effectiveness PP draining could have (since Admiral Korski called it potentially too slow) I'll do a brief analysis of one of the metagames most significant attacking threats:

Heatran
The most common choice scarf variant typically carries Fire Blast (5 PP), Earth Power (10 PP), and Explosion and Hidden Power. Since I use Heatran on my current team, I averaged the number of times I used Earth Power and Fire Blast over 10 battles. Fire Blast was used 4.8 ~ 5 times on average, and Earth Power was used 3 times on average. This leaves Fire Blast with 3 PP factoring in PP Ups, against teams without even a pokemon with Pressure.

Many other pokemon use moves with similar or worse PP.
It is interesting to look at the Ubers metagame, where Pressure is a predominant feature. I don't play Ubers personally BUT I do know that it is pretty common for pokemon to use slightly less powerful moves to have 16 PP instead of 8.

To sum up, I would love to see PP becoming a more integral part of the game. I think its viability as a strategy is more or less demonstrated by existing pokemon which benefit from PP stalling. This would be a great challenge for the CAP community and it would be an unorthodox and fresh concept.
Thanks!

 

[Deck Knight]

are we allowed to comment our opinions about other people's concepts? or should we wait until later to do this… (or do we not have a say? o_o)

sorry, I'm just sorta new in CAP :\
(been lurking for a while, but never active)

Well I'm doing a lot of this in the function of ATL which means I get a little more room to expound on a potential final product. If you want to comment on someone's concept my suggestion is to ask questions about which parts they think are the most important to emphasize. Is it offensive, defensive, support, etc. This is especially true for concepts that lack a certain finesse in their direction.

So while we encourage discussion, make sure your post isn't asking them to answer questions that violate the Concept rules (don't ask for specific abilities, attacks, etc. Just try and get the thrust of what they want.)

Generally if you can't write at least two or three sentences worth of questions about their direction I'd just lurk more. If you want to give a little support the best way is to explain why you think it's a good idea, not just "good concept +1" or something similar.

 

[chocoloco]

well, I just really wanted to voice my opinion on which concepts I feel could work and which I'm against, as of now I'll post the ones I support (to keep the chakras positive around her @.@), but if you guys'd let me, I wouldn't mind voicing my opinions on the ones I feel are… 'not as appropriate'.

So here's a list on the ideas I've liked so far (besides my own :P) and that I wouldn't mind supporting…

Hide

DrkSly’s “It Came From the Land of Forgotten Moves” -

It's an interesting idea, it would give use to offensive moves with secondary effects mostly. Stat-uppers are a must if the Pokémon is to be successful, but could give a refreshing change to the metagame.​

Staraptor Call’s “Concealer” -

In the words of Deck Knight himself: “The biggest issue we had with Kitsunoh (Ultimate Scout) was actually figuring out what a "scout" does.” Even if it is not clear what a “concealer” should/could do as of now, finding out is part of CAP. Thanks to Kitsunoh, there are many different types of scouts in the metagame now with widespread use; this case could be similar.​

Doug’s “Perfect Mate” -

I like this idea with the exception that I feel that if we’re going to go as far as to produce a “perfect mate” for an existing Pokémon, it should instead give the opportunity to an UU or even NU Pokémon to compete in OU or Uber, rather than just making an OU Pokémon even more OU. I vote for the Nidos as target subjects! :D​

I feel like I could comment more on the 'other ideas', and perhaps help mold them into more plausible suggestions, but as of now those three (and mine :P) are the ones that catch my attention the most. :D

 

[Optimusje]

Name: Hold it right there

General Description: A pokemon capable of stopping any pokemon that set up using boosts, but has to be tailored to do so.

Justification: One of the major forces in pokemon battles is a set up sweep. Oftentimes, set up sweeps are to be seen as a game ender, a strategy you pull off. When you as a player played your cards wrong however, or the opponent blatently sets up a sweep before even knowing your entire team, this could result in heavy casualties and oftentimes even the match. Having a gyara get to +2 in atk/spe is usually gg. Having a pokemon to effectively stop such sweeps will have a big influence on the metagame due to it making people think twice about their moves and possibly change the tide of battle. This in no means will have to be a defensive pokemon (or utility counter for that), it only has to stop a boosting pokemon.

This will then have both a positive effect on the metagame, by making players think twice about their moves and/or strategies towards winning the game, aswell as teaching us more about the metagame trough seeing how much set up sweepers (or boosting tanks) actually affact the metagame and general way of playing.

Questions To Be Answered:

• Is it worth using a team slot just to stop set up pokemon?
• Is this pokemon viable in many different styles of teams?
• Will this bring more variety to the current metagame in terms of team styles or will this centralise it even more?
• Would this pokemon not be a third leg when playing a team not using any way of setup (stall, for example)?
• Would scouting oposing teams (in battle) take higher priority then before?
• Will it be anything more then a one trick pony?

Explanation: I have always wondered how pokemon would be without setup moves, and especially setup sweepers. Countless times have i played battles where a sweep is simply set up early and wrecks havok amongs enemy lines simply because it has that odd luremove, or it gets that extra boost because your paralised or it had a crit on your one counter. This often spells gg. If there were to be a single pokemon handeling a large majority of the setup sweepers (albeit specifically built to handle specific ones), the tention in matches would be much bigger and maintained for a much longer period of time if the tables could be turned more quickly. Players will also have to think more about when to set up and scouting the enemy team will take higher priority.

Edit: with the idea, I am referring to quickly stop a threat and turn the tide of battle. Not turn boosts to 0 like arghonaut does, hope this is clear enough.

 

[Vaz]

Optimusje
This is a really good and interesting concept, I see you have worked very hard on it, although there is already a CaP that serves this purpose; Arghonaut. You should, and anyone really who is unaware of the current CaPs should review the forum and check whether or not a concept has already been established.

 

[Jibaku]

Thanks for replying, Deck.

In regards to TR's problems, there are few ways to overcome them without having to resort to using Persistent. For one, we can make both attacking types high, to dissuade the use of Choice items (and we most certainly won't use Scarf on this thing, right?). We can make the Trick Room user weak to Stealth Rock in order to prevent it from doing hit and runs, but still have enough bulk to take priority attacks. Or maybe we can make the STABs unspammable but is/are excellent offensive type(s). As far as phazing goes, we need to ensure that if they try to phaze this Pokemon, they will be injured badly as a result.

Take a look at Dialga - it is the closest thing we have to a perfect Trick Room abuser, with a somewhat matching build and extremely high firepower from both ends, along with resistance to the most common priority moves in the game. What keeps Trick Room Dialga from being a common set in singles is the fact that it has a base 90 Speed (which is faster than a whole bunch of stuff that attempt to switch into it), along with the fact that its typing gives it resistance to Stealth Rock and many opportunities to switch in.

Sometimes, I think of Trick Room like Agility / Rock Polish. In the Uber metagame, an extremely popular Rock Polish sweeper is Groudon, who isn't exactly an amazing Choice Bander due to its rather restrictive STAB.

 

[kd24]

This reminds me of "Paralysis Abusing Tank" concept I had for Cyclohm. Paralysis is the most popular method of lowering speed and the most immediate. We've had a few Trick Room concepts that help reverse the role of Speed in the metagame but Trick Room has its own limitations, the biggest being its temporary effectiveness. Speed droppers like Scary Face and String Shot also have their drawbacks, same with Icy Wind and Rock Tomb's low power.

My biggest fear is that there are already a lot of excellent Pokemon that can paralyze and I don't think adding another is going to help break Speed's grapple on the metagame. Ultimately the fact you need to use a move (or rely on Static to paralyze) a faster opponent means they have the option to hit you or cripple you first.

It's not a bad concept by any means, but I'd wonder how you'd get to the end result.

thanks for the feedback, i'll try and respond to your thoughts.

1.) Paralysis is definitely the best current method to reduce Speed but unfortunately, it isn't very common in OU at all to be honest. Celebi, Jirachi, and Blissey are basically the only Pokemon who would consistently use Thunder Wave (Beyond them is the rare Twave Gyarados, Twave Tyranitar, and that is basically it). And Thunder Wave on Celebi, Jirachi, and Blissey is also somewhat limited in use, with Blissey preferring Toxic, Celebi having too many viable moves to choose, and Jirachi opting for CM/CHoice Scarf sets. I think a Pokemon who is viable and would constantly use Speed Reduction would be the best thing for the metagame.

2.) We don't need to limit ourselves to Paralysis as the only viable method of punishing Speed, you mentioned Rock Tomb, Icy Wind, Scary Face, Trick Room, etc. I think a viable Trick Room Pokemon could certainly have use, but even outside that, we also have moves like Priority Ice Shard for DD Salamence, Gyro Ball for faster Pokemon, Punishment for Pokemon who boost their Speed (Unaware Punishment would ignore their Attack boosts but hit them harder for Speed, for example). We have even thrown around ideas of useful abilities or moves on IRC which I won't get into here, maybe a much more viable Serene Grace Body Slam, etc. There are many good options and I think it would certainly be interesting.

Thanks for the feedback deck, hopefully this response clears up my stance. I certainly can see the problem though in achieving the goal, but if my idea is chosen, I think the TL and ATL (fuzzy and you =]) can definitely make this idea a reality, despite the problems that might seem evident right now.

 

[NightShadow]

Name: The Ultimate Belly

Description: A Pokemon which can abuse Belly Drum to its fullest.

Justification: Let's face facts, out of the actually used stat-boosting moves, Belly Drum is one of the least used. This concept makes Belly Drum usable in OU, unlike currently, where Belly Drum's reign resides in UU. With this concept, we can learn more about Belly Drum's true potential and its strategies.

Questions To Be Answered

• With this concept, will Belly Drum be made viable in OU?

• What kind of battle strategies are useful whilst utilizing Belly Drum?

• Would teams need dedicated walls to successfully defeat the Belly Drummers?

• Will this Belly Drummer stand out from the others?

• Will this concept actively change the metagame or just be completely break it?

Explanation: Belly Drum would give the OU metagame a completely different perspective. Instead of a metagame where there were tons of Choiced Pokmeon running around, this OU a different stat-boosting move other then the "bog standards" such as Sword Dance or Calm Mind. This concept could be any type, because of the sheer variety of the Pokemon given Belly Drum (Charizard, Linoone, Clefable, etc). However, a type with generally more resistances would be useful, as it would create more opportunities for it to switch in and set-up. It can't be made with absolutely extreme physical offense. The offensive movepool could be made slightly limited so it isn't unstoppable, and suffers a slight coverage issue. Overall, I think this new concept will change the current metagame in a fun and exciting way.

 

[Defyin]

In reply to Deck Knight:

You seem to be overcentralizing on the use of pursuit as the only trap, and with latias gone it's only SE on a few OU pokemon, there is still less common trapping move that could potentially work such as magma storm and the other moves like whirlpool, bind etc.. This Pokemons purpose could also be to fill in niches where say magnezone/collosoil can't trap, making it have a unique place in the metagame, without being broken.

 

[Optimusje]

Optimusje
This is a really good and interesting concept, I see you have worked very hard on it, although there is already a CaP that serves this purpose; Arghonaut. You should, and anyone really who is unaware of the current CaPs should review the forum and check whether or not a concept has already been established.

Hmh, i seem to have not explained it properly. I mean something that immediatly turns the tides in a sweep, not something to purely boost statups. I guess its still somewhat similar to arghonaut (i thought i set it apart a bit), but ill clarify it more in my post.

 

[DougJustDoug]

RE: Comments about my Perfect Mate concept

Yes, the selection of the base pokemon would be crucial to the entire project. I think the ideal base pokemon will be a pokemon that has some variety in how it can be used currently, but has a few key weaknesses that need to be covered by a perfect teammate. And by "weaknesses", I'm not referring solely to typing. It could be "low speed", "can't handle status", or whatever.

The real key for the Topic Leader to consider when choosing a base pokemon for a Perfect Mate is -- How much variety is there for complementing this pokemon competitively? We don't want to choose a base pokemon whose usage and weaknesses are so narrow, that the definition of a perfect mate is blatantly obvious from the outset. We want to leave ourselves room to debate the best way to complement the pokemon, and have it take shape over the course of the project.

I also don't think we should pick an underused pokemon, and use this concept as a vehicle to "make a bad pokemon good". This concept is not a reclamation project -- it's an opportunity to explore the concept of team synergy and team core building.

Yes, one of the questions to be answered is to see if the pokemon's usage improves, therefore we probably should not pick a top OU pokemon like Tyranitar or Scizor -- since, even if we build a perfect teammate, it will be hard to see if we actually improved the usability of those pokemon. They are already amazing! But, if we pick a pokemon that is too underused, I fear the project will get sidetracked by trying to restore a pokemon to glory, rather than figuring out how to make a core pair of a competitive team.

I'm not completely opposed to the idea of a UU pokemon, just because it is UU. There are perhaps some UU pokemon that are just right for this concept. But, I personally would not spend much time sifting through UU pokes, looking for a hidden gem that fits the bill for a Perfect Mate. I think amongst the top 50 pokemon in the current metagame, there are proibably plenty of better candidates. But, ultimately that will not be my decision. It will be chosen by the TL, after a discussion by the entire community.

 

[Mektar]

So far, my favorites are DougJustDoug's and alix13's concepts. As for the Pokemon that needs a 'perfect mate', might I suggest Ninjask (you know, since we already have a great baton passer)? A CAP that prevents phazeing somehow as well as resits Ice and Rock would be a benificial teammate for Ninjask.

 

[Res Ipsa Loquitur]

@Optimusje
I'm afraid I still don't get it. What does this do that is different from Arghonaut? Are you talking about a fast, bulky Haze user? Or a 0-priority Whirlwind? I don't see how you can "turn the tide" from a setup sweeper aside from negating the boosts. I guess you could do it with raw power, like how Deoxys-A "turns the tide" of an Agiligross sweep by outspeeding and OHKOing with HP Fire. I assume that's not what you're suggesting.

 

[Garchomper16]

Name: The Ditto of OU
General Description: A version of ditto that could be used to success in OU
Justification: Poor ditto sits sad and forgotten but has one of the most interesting and under-appreciated possibilities in the game: Transform. What if theyr was a way to make a version of ditto viable in OU? With this we can understand if some pokemons greatest weaknesses are themselves.
Questions To Be Answered: (See rules below.)
-How would pokemon counter themselves?
-How would stall or heavy offense deal with a pokemon that can adjust based on their opponents?
-How could this pokemon impact the synergy of teams by using their resistances against their teammates?

Explanation: With Transform, you instantly become your opponent, making the battle somewhat of a mind game. Also, most teams aren't prepared to have their own pokemon used against them, possibly even multiple times. This would also explore how well standard OU pokemon do against their exact clones in battle. This CAP could also be a great comeback pokemon if a single opponents pokemon is killing your team, you could use its own power against it. This CAP could make picking multiple pokemon with the same weakness or having a pokemon to check a version of one on your team harder.

 

[Optimusje]

@Optimusje
I'm afraid I still don't get it. What does this do that is different from Arghonaut? Are you talking about a fast, bulky Haze user? Or a 0-priority Whirlwind? I don't see how you can "turn the tide" from a setup sweeper aside from negating the boosts. I guess you could do it with raw power, like how Deoxys-A "turns the tide" of an Agiligross sweep by outspeeding and OHKOing with HP Fire. I assume that's not what you're suggesting.

0-priority phazing for example, but i did not want to go into this more specifically. Like i said, it is somewhat similar to arghonaut, a bit too much when i think about it now. Ahwell, I'll see i suppose...

 

[NTT]

I've been lurking the forum since CAP9, and feel that I'm familiar enough with the project to begin contributing. May as well start at the start:

Name: Back to First Gen

General Description: A pokemon that can consistently remove the effects of items and/or abilities from a game, though not necessarily both at once.

Justification: In today's competitive metagames, a pokemon's viability can be defined by their ability, potentially making or breaking them. Similarly certain types of movesets just wouldn't exist without the introduction of items. This CAP would aim to explore how the current OU metagame would look if it was stripped down to it's most basic competitive fundaments; Effective use of a pokemon's stats and movepools.

Questions to be Answered;
•How dependent are pokemon in OU on their abilities and the ability to equip themselves with items?
•When the reliability of an ability/item is compromised, would previously aggressive pokemon begin to be seen playing more conservative sets, and vice-versa?
•Would previously unviable/outclassed pokemon find new niches in the OU metagame if their threats, or superior counterparts, were stripped of key advantages?
•Would balanced teams begin to rise in usage if the features integral to a team member's success could be compromised at any moment?

Explanation: As mentioned before, in the beginning pokémon was a game centered around making the most of your tram member's stats and moves, because that was "all there was". With so many other factors affecting how a pokemon can be played or played against, these two areas are no longer the absolute fundaments they once were. While both still of critical importance, a pokemon's ability can make a seemingly inferior poke a far superior option to the point where one poke is left in complete obscurity. Dragonite immediately springs to mind, with it's natural bulk overshadowed by Salamence's access to intimidate. The potential risk of losing one's ability may not be enough to bring a pokemon out of obscurity, but may make them an option worth considering once more.

While not intentional, I can also see this concept aiding in improving our understanding of previous CAP concepts. If, for example, Collosoil was at constant risk of losing it's Guts boost, it may begin using Rebound more in order to deter secondary moves.

Note: In response to feedback via PM, the level of severity of this concept's ability to block items/abilities is completely open to discussion. I am not suggesting the CAP necessarily be built that simply switches in and completely nerfs everybody's ability/item for the entirety of the game. The community may decide on this for all I know, but it is definitely not necersarry for this concept to succeed.