CAP 11 CAP 11 - Part 7b - Secondary Ability Poll

[tennisace]

a vote for lightningrod is not a vote for no secondary ability. all of the options in this poll are equivalent to no secondary ability, and there's no option to vote for a secondary ability that actually does something competitively. that means from a competitive standpoint, no secondary ability has already won. a vote for lightningrod is just a vote for lightningrod, which is not a competitive vote.

Uhhh actually Lightningrod is the only ability that has no effect in singles, which is the only CAP format supported. Every other ability has an effect, no matter how small/insignificant. Therefore Lightningrod is the only ability on the poll functionally equivalent to NSA.

 

[Da Letter El]

I voted Inner Focus for a few reasons.

1. It's less limiting as to which art design we chose. Even though lightningrod and volt absorb are somewhat similar, i prefer to choose an ability which limits even less, since as some people have alluded to previously, it does effect some designs. Inner Focus has zero design elements to worry about. More flexibility in art > Less, even if this is a slight advantage.

2. It still has some use in being a perfect partner. Being able to take flinch is helpful in a similar vein (although to a vastly inferior degree) to volt absorb. Often times, and especially now that togekiss usage will be on the rise after this CAP, paralysis is accompanied by flinching. While I agree that it's a small benefit at best, being able to avoid being flinched means less flinch-hax and makes him at least somewhat able to take an attack that would flinch. Some functionality > No functionality.

3. Both of these abilities suck. Inner focus doesn't help much at all, since this pokemon's defenses aren't exactly amazing and there aren't that many flinching moves used. Out of the main pokemon which use flinching moves (fake out users, togekiss, jirachi, and gyarados), this pokemon already outspeeds all of these bar fake-out users (it's priority) should they not be using a scarf/gyara has a dd. If they do, air slash is super effective. Jirachi's dealing much more damage with iron head than this pokemon wants, and gyarados already should ohko (i haven't done the calcs, but I'd be surprised if he didnt). So this pretty much only helps against fake out. Neither Inner Focus nor Lightningrod warrant much use, anyway, so there is no reason to reject inner focus for not following through with the purpose of this CAP. If anything, lightningrod does literally nothing to help togekiss; so much for a perfect partner.

Please prove to me why lightningrod is uniquely better than inner focus, because there have been 0 compelling arguments to support that claim.

 

[Seizen]

Eh, despite not having much to do in CAP11, I've put my two-cents in and voted Inner Focus. If the final decision is that we are going for something pure-flavour, but not NSA, then none of the abilities have any real effect on an artwork design.

After all, Marowak has Lightningrod as an option, but it doesn't look like the kind of Pokemon who could even attract lightning, let alone act as a magnet for lightning.

However, to avoid any and all counter arguments, the word Inner to me suggests it's a mental state of either being too determined or too naive to flinch in the sign of trouble when it comes to Inner Focus. Plus, it adds a slight advantage to a potential partnership-moveset, which is always something to consider at a later date.

 

[Chameleon]

I completely agree with Wyverii regarding lightingrod limiting artists' imagination. We should accomodate their flavour and them our competitive decisions, in my opinion.

I would rather have no ability, but voted inner focus because it's easy to accomodate artistically and not gamebreaking, it's really just for jirachi and fake out. No worries about losing much togekiss synergy with this one.

 

[callforjudgement]

I dislike using Inner Focus here; the issue is that it makes CAP11 a better Focus Sash lead (how many leads use Electric moves?), and I can't see how that helps Togekiss at all. Minor, but I don't see why we should give it an ability that might plausibly make CAP11 work in an unintended way; after all, see what happened with Krilowatt!

Of the other "useless" abilities, I don't really see how Steadfast helps at all; it would make CAP11 vaguely good at switching in on Fake Out leads to get the speed boost. Lightningrod is truly useless in singles (and helps Kiss quite a bit in doubles, where Thunder is a relatively common move due to all the rain that tends to fly around); and I see no problem with using it as a more flavourful NSA. (Something that should be noted: if CAP11 is unbreedable, then having two abilities with one useless is not quite the same as having one, due to legality restrictions depending on abilities. If CAP11 is breedable, which seems more likely because movepool designers love their egg moves, this issue doesn't occur.)

Finally, Insomnia is by far the most useful ability of the four; I can see it having some use in, say, making CAP11 a Breloom check (it outspeeds and can absorb the Spore). I don't really see why CAP11 should be a Breloom check, though...

Thus, I'm voting for Lightningrod.

 

[Darkamber8828]

Inner Focus.



Leading with CAP 11 helps Togekiss because it prevents SR from getting on the field via Taunt.

It has competitive merit, unlike all those other ones.

Although that's the point.

 

[eXeggutoraped]

who voted for Insomnia? i want to try a sleep talk set

 

[Raikaria]

Voted Isnomia, so if you REALLY WANT, you can use CAP11 as a Breloom counter, considering no such thing exists until after it spores, this is good.

 

[Reynbowz]

Lightningrod is a slap in the face to the artists.

Seriously, why? As Wyverii alluded to on the first page, they are already bending over backwards to accomodate for Volt Absorb.
I could understand if it was for competitive reasons as was with VA, but this is just heedless. If we didn't want a secondary ability, the option of just that would have been more respectful to the ones who will give this CAP its face.

I voted Inner Focus for its vague requirements for flavour justification. Would have preferred NSA though.

 

[??????]

If we're gonna give CAP11 something almost useless, give it Inner Focus.

 

[jumpluff]

Voted Isnomia, so if you REALLY WANT, you can use CAP11 as a Breloom counter, considering no such thing exists until after it spores, this is good.

No offense, but this is irrelevant to the concept (being a perfect mate for Togekiss). Also, it doesn't counter, since if it has a sub up, it can Punch you to death. You have to come in on the Spore. Nonetheless, I voted for Lightningrod because it is the only ability presented there that has no effect in singles, no matter how minuscule. To vote for something else would be to stray from our intended purpose, imo. Deck does raise the point that Inner Focus could have some use as a lead for Togekiss, but I stand by what I just said about straying from the purpose. The idea of creating a good anti-lead here (which is potential) is secondary to our concept.

 

[VKCA]

Uhhh actually Lightningrod is the only ability that has no effect in singles, which is the only CAP format supported. Every other ability has an effect, no matter how small/insignificant. Therefore Lightningrod is the only ability on the poll functionally equivalent to NSA.

In a single battle, no electric attack will miss you if you have lighningrod iirc. It still has an effect, just one that encourages you to use the other ability even more than actually having NSA.
Anyways I voted for steadfast since if we are not going to go all the way with NSA we might as well have something semi useful.

 

[tennisace]

In a single battle, no electric attack will miss you if you have lighningrod iirc.

No, it doesn't. It only works in 2v2, though the description should be more clear.

 

[~Golden Emp]

Do you know the effect of Lightningrod???

All Electric attacks will be drawn out to the ability owner. In double battles, the Pokemon with Lightningrod will be absorbing all electric attacks.

But...in single battles.....it's a LoL ability :P

First, Lightningrod doesn't absorb the electric attack, it just pulls the attack to the "Lightningrod-er" so he becomes the target of the attack. The ability DOESN'T give the pokemon an electric inmunity.

So that's why it should be the secondary "Non-usable" ability XD

 

[Upduck]

Inner Focus all the way! With this ability, CaP 11 will be able to switch in against flinch spammers (Jirachi) that threaten almost any Pokemon. This makes it an excelent teammate in OU, which is CaP 11's initial purpose.

 

[capefeather]

I guess at the end of the day what i'm trying to say is that by picking a flavour ability you're limiting the more limitless imaginations of those who are putting a face to this project. You're choking the more zany and unusual ideas from ever getting to the final stretch and making it harder for those who kindly give up some of their time to make some amazing artwork for this project. It just makes me so sad.

Posting to agree with this. All we're doing with this poll is limiting the flavour possibilities of CAP 11. This really should not be the case. There are plenty of no-effect abilities that Fuzznip could have put on the slate, and yet only Lightningrod is there. Why? If we'd known for certain that this was how the slate was going to be done, I think that some of us would have pushed this view that much harder in the discussion thread.

To demonstrate Wyverii's point, I feel that it's appropriate to make a quick description of a possible CAP 11:

This Pokémon lives at the edges of forests. It trains in open fields during lighting storms, becoming one with its environment such that it even draws the rain toward it. When it's not training, it can be found in the forests looking for honey. It prefers to be alone, and it tends to stay out of sight of any approaching foe.

Without much effort, I managed to describe a Pokémon that could feasibly have Storm Drain, Honey Gather, Run Away and maybe even Damp. Let's not limit the flavour possibilities for CAP 11 just for the sake of procedure.

What really irks me about this poll is its obvious bias. It seems to me that people just wanted Lightningrod in advance, and Fuzznip put in three abilities that had some sort of competitive effect so that Lightningrod became the safest choice. This almost comes off as irresponsible to me. Of course, I could just vote for anything other than the winning option to try to force a minority and a reconsideration, but out of respect for the project, I'm not going to do that. So here I'm announcing my intention to boycott the poll.

@ Scoopapa: I agree that it is fortunate that there probably won't be any more significant designs or significant design changes at this time. Nonetheless, I just don't feel right picking any of these. porygon-d has given a good enough example.

 

[porygon-d]

I voted Inner Focus because although it is meant to be Togekiss's perfect mate, on the ladder there is gonna be a hell of a lot of Togekiss/CAP11 teams. Because of this it could get a very small amount of usage.

Other than that, one of the main reasons is that a lot of the current art submissions will still work with this ability as many had to kinda bullshit a bit about the design to incorporate the Volt Absorb ability.

 

[Scoopapa]

Anything that the artists have done to accommodate Volt Absorb already works to accommodate Lightningrod. We've added a second generic electric ability, and the generic electric stuff some people have added to to their designs in response works just as well for both. Please, anyone trying to make this argument, give me an example of an artist who "bent over backwords" to accommodate Volt Absorb, only to be screwed somehow by Lightningrod. You'll find that many of the artists didn't change the design at all, and most of the rest of them only made minor tweaks or colored something yellow. This whole "Lightningrod hurts the artists" thing is idiotic. I'd also like feedback from artists as to how they feel about Lightningrod or if they think they need to change their submission now that it's Volt Absorb / Lightningrod rather than Volt Absorb.

 

[porygon-d]

I didn't say they had to bend over backwards, I said they had to bullshit about their current design.

I'll take Wyverii's for example (I hope she doesn't mind). She put in her main design post that, "The Pokémon heart cavity has been filled with lightning causing him a temporary artificial feeling of emotions." Now I think that it is clear that this wasn't meant form the start, it was added on to her design.

However, now she has LightningRod to contend with there is no way she can use the heart filling up with electricity for this as a real life Lightning Rod is generally a rod of metal for 'attracting' (for lack of a better way of me explaining it) lightning. There is no where for the electricity to count as a conducting rod of electricity on her current design such as a long tail. (The current one doesn't exactly look like something that could conduct electricity.)

Therefore, this is a point that could be used in the polls. The average smogon user will go to the thread and read, 'LightningRod' Go to her design and say, "hmm that doesn't look like it fits well with the ability, I'm not voting for that"

So yes, I waffled on a lot there but my point still stands that I think this is unfair.

 

[Raikaria]

No offense, but this is irrelevant to the concept (being a perfect mate for Togekiss). Also, it doesn't counter, since if it has a sub up, it can Punch you to death. You have to come in on the Spore. Nonetheless, I voted for Lightningrod because it is the only ability presented there that has no effect in singles, no matter how minuscule. To vote for something else would be to stray from our intended purpose, imo. Deck does raise the point that Inner Focus could have some use as a lead for Togekiss, but I stand by what I just said about straying from the purpose. The idea of creating a good anti-lead here (which is potential) is secondary to our concept.

All of the other abilities are also irrelivent to the concept, if that is the case.

No pokemon likes Breloom, Togekiss dislikes Focus Punches with it's sub-par physical defense. It's fairly easy to switch in on Spore as well. Just switch in as soon as you see the mushroom, because, 99% of the time, their first reaction is Spore after they switch in, unless something is already asleep. Togekiss dosen't like Focus Punch or Spore. Therefor, it's more relevant than Lightlingrod.

Steadfast isn't useful, as it's inferior to Innfer Focus, which could help CAP11 counter Scarfed Jirachi, who is a threat to Togekiss, with the Flinches from Iron Head.

Both Inner Focus and Insomina have just enough of a niche use that thay MAY see some use over Volt Absorb, especially if Jolteon/Electivire is already on the team. They both also help take down a single target that Togekiss dosen't particually like [Can't switch in on Breloom, although vica versa, and Scarf Jirachi is a pain]

 

[Objection]

All of the other abilities are also irrelivent to the concept, if that is the case.

But which detracts from the concept more: an irrelevant yet competitively viable ability or a completely useless ability? I'll answer for you: the first one.

Both Inner Focus and Insomina have just enough of a niche use that thay MAY see some use over Volt Absorb

Judging by the options on the poll, I think the idea of CAP11's secondary ability is that it never gets used over Volt Absorb.

Also, since when were counters weak to the commonly-used STABs of what they were countering?

 

[petrie911]

No pokemon likes Breloom, Togekiss dislikes Focus Punches with it's sub-par physical defense. It's fairly easy to switch in on Spore as well. Just switch in as soon as you see the mushroom, because, 99% of the time, their first reaction is Spore after they switch in, unless something is already asleep. Togekiss dosen't like Focus Punch or Spore. Therefor, it's more relevant than Lightlingrod.

Wouldn't Togekiss just Air Slash Breloom? Togekiss is faster, and Breloom is 4x weak.

 

[Fuzznip]

Lightningrod has over 50% of the votes and is thus CAP 11's secondary ability.