One more stats poll. Lets get to it!
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Scoopapa
wh0sy0urpapa
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CAP18 so far:
Leadership Team:
DetroitLolcat - Topic Leader
jas61292 - Typing Leader
PttP - Ability Leader
srk1214 - Stats Leader
ginganinja - Movepool Leader
Abilities: Analytic / ??? / ???
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New!: All competitive polls will consist of two rounds of ranked voting (24 hours each). In the first round, the preliminary ranking of candidates by PBV will be decided. The top 3 (or 4 in the case of a tie for 3rd place) will move on to the second round of ranked voting. The Policy Review discussion that lead to this change is here.
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This will be a Preferential Block Vote (PBV) (a form of Instant Runoff Voting which re-runs the counting, each time removing the previously top-ranked candidate in order to determine the 2nd most preferred, 3rd most preferred, etc.), the details of which are outlined here and here. This is a ranked vote: order does matter! You can upvote your favourites and downvote your least favourites. You may choose to rank as many or as few options as you like, but we encourage you to rank as many options as possible to ensure your preferences are taken into account.
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Scoopapa said:Final Submission
Wasn't sure if I wanted to post this but finally decided to.
82/50/106/128/111/93
PT: 158.992
ST: 167.358
PS: 77.1239
SS: 190.221
BSR: 325.6547
BST: 570
The basic idea of this spread is to focus on Physical Tankiness as much as possible; it has just enough in the special stats to deal with Aegislash (and by extension most of our threat list) and enough speed to deal with Landorus-T however we need to. With the PT just about maxed within the limit, this spread can survive most of the boosted physical attacks our threats list can throw at us, including +6 Aqua Jet from Azumarill and Scarf Garchomp's Earthquake. It also helps us utilize Will-o-Wisp on powerful physical attackers. At the same time, the ST is not incredibly high, meaning that Goodra, Lati@s, and Rotom-W all have an easier time dealing damage to this spread. The HP is lowish, encouraging a 252 HP EV investment. Speed could be invested if needed, but going max speed Life Orb with no Latias support would leave it without much bulk and only okay speed.
I'm mostly thinking of a 252 HP / 252 SpA Modest EV spread, with Leftovers, Assault Vest, and Specs being viable options. 252 SpA / 252 Spe Timid could work, especially with Specs or Assualt Vest, but would mostly be for outspeeding Jolly Landorus-T. The ST is enough not to need Assault Vest to do what it needs to, which naturally leaves it high enough to be good with AV equipped. 252 HP / 252 Def or 252 HP / 252 SpD could also be viable with this spread; whichever way you invest, your other defense won't be too shabby, and either way works well with Will-o-Wisp.
I'll try to use calcs to convince you that the Special stats are indeed sufficient, and that the high PT is a good idea. You've already seen a lot of calcs for similar SpA stats, so I'll focus on defensive calcs.
252+ SpA CAP18 Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 324-384 (100 - 118.5%)
This is important, and what 128 SpA just allows us to do.
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 147-174 (39.9 - 47.2%)
0 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 58-70 (15.7 - 19%)
factoring in 2 turns of leftovers, CAP18 will almost always survive two Shadow Balls plus a Shadow Sneak. So that's two switch-ins to Aegislash where it is forced to switch or die. The same is true for physical Aegislash using Shadow Claw + Shadow Sneak.
252 SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 173-204 (47 - 55.4%) -- 14.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
So this spread stands a good chance of not being 2HKOed by Life Orb Aegislash, as well.
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 120-142 (32.6 - 38.5%)
252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Abomasnow: 156-185 (42.3 - 50.2%)
CAP18 can KO back with Surf or Flamethrower. This spread has the ST necessary to switch in on Gengar and force it out.
+2 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 313-369 (85 - 100.2%)
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 303-357 (82.3 - 97%)
By extension, you are never 2HKOed by AV Azumarill's Waterfall or CB Azumarill's Play Rough. Will-o-Wisp is still better vs. Mega Mawile but this way it's not necessary.
252+ SpA Goodra Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 176-208 (47.8 - 56.5%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Goodra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD CAP18: 190-225 (51.6 - 61.1%) -- 94.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
AV Goodra is more likely than not to KO this spread with Thunderbolt + Draco Meteor. Considering that we outspeed it, it's important that it can 2HKO and not have to take 4 attacks when trying to counter us.
252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 312-368 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 312-368 (84.7 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO
4 Atk Hippowdon Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 228-270 (61.9 - 73.3%)
252+ Atk Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 354-416 (96.1 - 113%)
252+ Atk Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def CAP18: 372-438 (101 - 119%)
We can't take all of the Earthquakes, but a small investment in Def EV's could help a lot with Excadrill (or a large investment in Speed EV's). Checking Scarfchomp and M-Char X when SR is not around is pretty superb.
wh0sy0urpapa said:Final Submission
98 HP / 51 Attack / 85 Defense / 128 Sp. Attack / 110 Sp. Defense / 93 Speed (565 Total)
PT: 143.96 (Good)
ST: 185.48 (Excellent)
PS: 78.411 (Below Average)
SS: 190.22 (Excellent)
Total BSR: 328.4982 (Very Good)
And as you can see below, I feel that Leftovers will be very viable on this CAP, as it needs its bulk and Analytic renders Life Orb somewhat unnecessary. In case other items see use, however, I included side notes in the damage calculations noting what will happen if this CAP does NOT hold Lefties.
PT justification: Notable calculations:
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Claw vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 160-190 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
This looks unappealing, but since Aegislash-Shield is easily 2HKOed at worst (see SS Justification for more), we have no need to worry. Besides:
252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 93-109 (27.5 - 32.3%) -- 57.4% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Thus, we won't take more than 88.6% damage with 1 Claw and 1 Sneak, and will rid Aegislash of the battle right then and there.
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall or Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 273-322 (81 - 95.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP:
136-162 (40.3 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Ouch! Well, that's what you would say if you forgot we are faster than Azumarill and can burn it. Thus, even if it Choice-locks itself into Aqua Jet…
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Aqua Jet vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 68-81 (20.1 - 24%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 5HKO without it)
252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power burned Azumarill Waterfall or Superpower vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 136-161 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (or without it)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 189-223 (56 - 66.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
But don't forget we OHKO Mega-Maw with Flamethrower. And make its SP fail with a Will-O-Wisp. Then:
252+ Atk Huge Power burned Mega Mawile Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 94-111 (27.8 - 32.9%) -- 85.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 4HKO without it)
And here's some other nice things we can live:
252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 284-336 (84.2 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (or without it)
252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 283-334 (83.9 - 99.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (or without it)
252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 270-318 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (or, once again, without it)
252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: 274-324 (81.3 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery (cannot be OHKOed even without it)
On the physical side, we are certainly not the bulkiest, nor do we need to be. The key is, quite simply, to not be 2HKOed by Aegislash or Azumarill. Mawile isn't a huge problem, as it dies to a single Flamethrower. It also fears Will-O-Wisp, as does Azumarill; neither will want their Attack halved. Mawile fears it more, however, as using WoW makes its infamous Sucker Punch fail. The other mentioned attacks after that are just an added bonus, as all 3 pokes have plenty of prevalence in OU right now. Furthermore, all 3 of them eat Lucario alive, and Latias handles Talonflame but is toast if she can't OHKO the other two.
ST justification: Notable calculations:
252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 147-174 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: (43.6 - 51.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (9% chance to 2HKO without it)
Unfortunately, with the above Aegislash spread, we are nearly always revenge-killed by a Shadow Sneak.
4 Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 0 HP / 0 Def CAP: (20.7 - 24.9%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery
(43.6+43.6+20.7-12)=95.9; this is the maximum we are left with. However, this should not be a concern; see SS Justification for more details.
252 SpA Gengar Sludge Bomb vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: 135-160 (40 - 47.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (or without it)
252 SpA Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: 117-138 120-142 (35.6 - 42.1%) -- 88.4% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (guaranteed 3HKO without it)
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: 140-165 (41.5 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (or without it)
4 SpA Heatran Earth Power vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: 150-178 (44.5 - 52.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery (22.3% chance to 2HKO without it)
What can we safely switch into?
4 SpA Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: 63-75 (18.6 - 22.2%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery (possible 5HKO without it)
4 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: 84-100 (24.9 - 29.6%) -- 87-103 (25.8 - 30.5%) -- 1.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recover (guaranteed 4HKO without it)
4 SpA Togekiss Dazzling Gleam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD CAP: 46-55 (13.6 - 16.3%) -- possible 7HKO (possibly the worst move ever with Leftovers recovery)
The key is to be able to switch in on the aforementioned Special attackers, as with my spread, we can easily 2HKO many of them at worst, and OHKO at best. As for the Fairies, Lucario's bad Sp. Defense means he has a tough time handling them despite being resistant. While CAP 18 probably won't be able to hit Fairies too hard, it can at least tank them, and eliminate Clefable, which I will get to later. (Seriously, though, if you ever find yourself in a CAP 18 vs. Sylveon or Togekiss situation, bring a sleeping bag.)
PS justification: Obviously, CAP 18 is not supposed to be a physical attacker. Since 565 is undoubtedly a high Base Stat Total, 60 is ideally as low as I wanted to go for a useless stat, as I do not want to be misconceived as BSR abusing. (Malaconda's 40 Sp. Attack, for example, is justified because its Base Stat Total of 500 is low by CAP standards.) However, no CAP besides Aurumoth has a BST over 570, and we all know what happened during the Aurumoth process. Thus, I wanted to keep that the maximum benchmark. I still feel like I may be pushing it by making the Attack 51, but making it any higher would compromise too much.
On a side note, this is just enough to 2HKO Mega Charizard X. See the Hydro Pump calculation below, and then:
0- Atk CAP Aqua Jet vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Charizard X: 22-27 (7.3 - 9%) -- possibly the worst move ever
Still 2HKOes it without fainting us, but that is exceedingly situational.
Also, 51 makes the BST 565, which is a more aesthetically-pleasing number than 564 or 569.
SS justification: Notable calculations:
252+ SpA CAP 18 Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 324-384 (100 - 118.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Analytic CAP Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 356-422 (109.8 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA CAP Thunderbolt or Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 256-302 (63.3 - 74.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (sure hope CAP 18 gets at least one of these in its movepool)
252+ SpA CAP Hydro Pump or Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Excadrill: 372-438 (102.7 - 120.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Analytic CAP Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Gengar: 322-379 (122.9 - 144.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA CAP Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Mawile: 332-392 (109.2 - 128.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard Y in Sun: 224-266 (75.1 - 89.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA CAP Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Heatran: 270-320 (69.9 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA CAP Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Landorus-T: 468-552 (122.5 - 144.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Charizard X: 291-343 (97.6 - 115.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA CAP Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Mega Garchomp: 448-528 (125.1 - 147.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This is a 3-part calculation:
252+ SpA CAP Analytic Fire Blast or Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 196-232 (49.7 - 58.8%) -- 74.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA CAP Fire Blast or Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 151-178 (38.3 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA CAP Fire Blast or Hydro Pump vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 102-120 (25.8 - 30.4%) -- 1.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
(49.7+38.3+25.8-12)=101.8, so Clefable is always 3HKOed even if it uses Cosmic Power or Calm Mind. In fact, if we run Timid over Modest and hold a Wise Glasses (of all things), it does exactly the same thing. Sadly this doesn't work on Sylveon or Togekiss.
The reason Sp. Attack is 128 exactly is to guarantee the 3HKO on Clefable, and the Overheat OHKO on Aegislash-Shield without Analytic. It also takes on those pesky Ground-types 1-on-1. 93 Speed is necessary to outspeed Excadrill, Landorus-T, and Mega Garchomp. I considered 103 Speed to beat Landorus-I and normal Garchomp, but Latias already handles them to some extent. Moreover, letting this CAP handle them would break the BSR limit, and I would have to compromise other things.
--------------------alexwolf said:FINAL SUBMISSION
100 HP / 45 Atk / 80 Def / 135 SpA / 100 SpD / 95 Spe (555 BST)
PT : 137,713 (Good)
ST : 171,628 (Very Good)
PS : 72,0622 (Poor)
SS : 208,425 (Fantastic)
BSR : 323,1459 (Very Good)
Special Sweepiness (PS) explanation
First, let's talk about Speed. We have decided that Ground-types should be threatened by the CAP, and if we can't switch into them, the least we can do is beat as many of them as we can 1 on 1. With 95 Speed, the CAP outspeeds Excadrill, Landorus-T, Mega Garchomp, and Mamoswine, while Speed tying with Gliscor, which almost never uses max Speed btw. Outspeeding Garchomp and Landorus would be great, but too much power or bulk needs to be sacrificed to do this, and Landorus is already checked by Latias. 95 Speed is a very good benchmark for a hard hitter, as Kyurem-B has showcased, as it makes for a Pokemon fast enough to outspeed the vast majority of defensive, pivot, and tankish Pokemon while making sure that most offensive Pokemon can outspeed and thus at least revenge kill the CAP. 95 Speed also makes sure that we are threatened by the things we want to, namely Water and Dragon-types. Offensive Water-types such as Manaphy and Keldeo outrun the CAP, which is good as they need to check us, which would be difficult if they didn't outspeed the CAP, given the CAP's power level with Analytic + big SpA stat. Another benefit of this Speed stat is that it allows the CAP to outrun even max Speed+ Aegislash with little EV investment, namely 60 EVs, making sure that we can always outspeed it without having to choose between bulk, power, or speed. Finally, with 95 Speed, the CAP can outrun most defensive Pokemon even with no Speed investment, especially Pokemon such as Clefable, Sylveon, Heatran, and Togekiss, all Pokemon the CAP is supposed to threaten, and some slow offensive Pokemon that we are also supposed to threaten, namely Azumarill and Mega Mawile.
As for the Special Attack stat, here are some calcs to showcase its usefunless:
Those calculatios show that the CAP has enough juice to 2HKO anything that isn't Chansey, Blissey, a Water-, or a Dragon-type even without a boosting item, giving the freedom to the cap of using items such as Leftovers or Assault Vest to better check Pokemon such as Aegislash, Gengar, Azumarill, and Mega Mawile. Also, with 135 SpA, the CAP is able to deal good damage to some of its more frail Water and Dragon-type checks with a super effective Hidden Power, meaning that they are not hard counters to it and it can do some damage to them with some prediction. Here are some calcs:
- 252+ SpA CAP Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 288-338 (88.8 - 104.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 168-200 (46.1 - 54.9%)
- 252+ SpA CAP Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Thick Fat Mega Venusaur: 132-156 (36.2 - 42.8%) -- Big chance to 2HKO with SR up if Mega Venusaur switches into the CAP
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 303-357 (84.6 - 99.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Sylveon: 211-249 (53.5 - 63.1%)
While more bulky checks, such as specially defensive Rotom-W, Goodra, Suicune, and CM Manaphy all avoid the 2HKO from a super effective Hidden Power. This means that if the CAP wants to leave a dent to its hard checks, such as the ones mentioned above, it has to resort to a boosting item to do so + the appropriate Hidden Power, which limits its ability to check the threats it wants to, and therefore presents a significant opportunity cost: either have the ability to reliably check the threats that trouble Latias and Lucario, or have the ability to beat some of your hard checks with some prediction, but not both.
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hidden Power Grass vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Rotom-W: 134-158 (44 - 51.9%)
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 178-210 (58.9 - 69.5%)
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hidden Power Ice vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 154-182 (50.9 - 60.2%)
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo: 210-248 (65 - 76.7%)
- 252+ SpA Analytic CAP Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Manaphy: 192-226 (56.3 - 66.2%)
tl;dr this SS makes the CAP very versatile and allows it to use a multitude of spreads and items, such as Assault Vest, Leftovers, Life Orb, Choice Specs, and EV spreads ranging from 252 SpA / 252 Spe to 252 HP / 252 SpA, or even a mix of HP, SpA, and Speed, thus allowing it to take on a variety of roles, while enabling it to deal with the threats we want to very well.
I didn't include calculations about Heatran and Mega Charizard Y because none of them are real threats to our core.
Special Tankiness (ST) explanation
I will be using an EV spread of 196 HP / 252 SpA / 60 Speed, in order for the cap to always outspeed max Speed+ Aegislash. Here are the most relevent calculations:
And if the CAP uses Assault Vest:
- 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 160-189 (41 - 48.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 208-246 (53.3 - 63%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 139-164 (35.6 - 42%) -- 10.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 SpA Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 154-183 (39.4 - 46.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Which means that the CAP has enough bulk to even check LO Thunderbolt Gengar once, assuming it uses max HP and SR is down. It can also take two Shadow Ball from Leftovers Aegislash with 196 HP EVs, so it will usually be able to switch into it twice, as long as SR is not on the field. Finally, the CAP can usually check Greninja once even with SR up (Greninja has a very small chance to hit with two Hydro Pump and get maximum damage rolls), which is a big threat to the rest of our core, so that's a nice thing.
- 252+ SpA Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 106-126 (27.6 - 32.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252+ SpA Life Orb Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 140-165 (35.8 - 42.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
- 252+ SpA Choice Specs Pixilate Sylveon Hyper Voice vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 93-110 (23.8 - 28.2%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 134-160 (34.3 - 41%) -- 51.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 172-203 (44.1 - 52%) -- 13.3% chance to 2HKO
- 252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 133-157 (34.1 - 40.2%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Basically, the special bulk is mostly focused around tanking Shadow Ball from Aegislash, which is the biggest threat to our core that hasn't been addressed yet. Be it Leftovers, Assault Vest, or even Choice Specs, the CAP will be able to check the CAP at least once even with SR up, and even twice without SR up, assuming Leftovers or Assault Vest. Of course the CAP can take more defensive roles and even opt for SpD investment while still having enough power to be dangerous, so the CAP can potentially tank even two Shadow Ball with Stealth Rock up.
And even though the CAP has good special bulk, the offensive Pokemon that outspeed and have super effective STABs against it, as well as most offensive Water and Dragon-types, can still get past it:
So, as long as the opponent manages to keep SR up, the CAP is very easy to OHKO with offensive Pokemon that have a typing advantage against it.
- 252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 374-439 (95.8 - 112.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 288-338 (73.8 - 86.6%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 257-304 (65.8 - 77.9%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Life Orb Latios Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 172-203 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Psyshock 2HKOes even without SR
- 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 229-270 (58.7 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
- 252 SpA Life Orb Latias Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 153-182 (39.2 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 268-316 (68.7 - 81%) -- 50% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Secret Sword vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 249-294 (63.8 - 75.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock (just posting this here to show how AV sets still get 2HKOed at worst by Keldeo)
- 252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Earth Power vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest CAP: 307-361 (78.7 - 92.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Mega Manectric Thunderbolt vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD CAP: 306-360 (78.4 - 92.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Physical Tankiness (PT) explanation
On the physical side, the important things are:
Again, going with the 196 HP spread, here is how well the CAP can take those attacks:
- To tank Azumarill's CB Play Rough and in general to be able to check Azumarill at least once
- To be able to tank Mega Mawile's Play Rough followed by another one from burned Mega Mawile
- To be able to take one hit from unboosted Mega Charizard X in order to KO back, because it's a big threat to our core, especially if it manages to set up
Against Mega Mawile, the CAP can always take one hit, burn it with WoW, and survive the second hit, even with SR up. Or it can survive almost always the +2 Play Rough from burned Mega Mawile (always if you invest 4 more EVs to Def). Same goes with CB Azumarill, essentially providing to our core an answer to all those strong Fairy attacks. The CAP can also survive a CB Brave Bird from Talonflame with this physical bulk even with no HP investment, meaning that it can win the 1 v 1 scenario if the need arises:
- 252+ Atk Mega Charizard X Earthquake vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 288-340 (73.8 - 87.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Play Rough vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 167-197 (42.8 - 50.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 161-190 (41.2 - 48.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Huge Power Azumarill Waterfall vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 288-339 (73.8 - 86.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Same goes for Mega Pinsir, the CAP can beat it in 1 on 1 scenarios, preventing it from forcing us out and setting up:
- 252+ Atk Choice Band Talonflame Brave Bird vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 283-334 (82.7 - 97.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Finally, here are calcs of physical attackers with super effective STABs, to show that they all threaten the CAP as they should:
- 252 Atk Mega Pinsir Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def CAP: 300-354 (87.7 - 103.5%) -- 25% chance to OHKO (always survives with 196 HP EVs)
- 252 Atk Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 392-464 (100.5 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 392-464 (100.5 - 118.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Wild Charge vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 421-499 (107.9 - 127.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Choice Scarf Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 404-476 (103.5 - 122%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252 Atk Choice Scarf Mold Breaker Excadrill Earthquake vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 408-480 (104.6 - 123%) -- guaranteed OHKO
- 252+ Atk Choice Scarf Landorus-T Earthquake vs. 196 HP / 0 Def CAP: 470-554 (120.5 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Physical Sweepiness (PS) explanation
I just wanted the PS to be low enough so that physical attacks are not usable, at least not for damage, to make sure that Chansey and Blissey remain surefire counters no matter what, because with a Choice Specs those are the only two Pokemon that will be able to wall the CAP, not only with mine but with most suggested spreads so far. Seeing as my BSR was already very high, i tried to give to the CAP as little Attack as possible without making any BSR abuse. After all, real Pokemon with so high SpA and low Atk exist, such as Alakazam (50 / 135), Chandelure (55 / 145), AND Darmanitan-Z (30 / 140), so i think that the Attack stat is not too low for real Pokemon standards.
Potential Sets
CAP @ Leftovers
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 196 HP / 252 SpA / 60 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pump
- Will-O-Wisp
- filler
Checks Aegislash, Azumarill, Gengar, and Mega Mawile, burns physical attackers it can't hurt with its STABs with WoW, such as Azumarill, Sucker Punch Mega Mawile, and Gyarados, and has decent longevity with bulk investment + Leftovers. Works as a hard hitter, pivot, check to dangerous Pokemon, and burn spreader. The Speed EVs allow the CAP to always outspeed Aegislash, but they could be increased to outspeed DD Mega Tyranitar before it Mevolves, or Adamant Mega Gyarados, both of which are very threatening Pokemon to our core.
CAP @ Assault Vest
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Modest Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pumo
- Hidden Power Electric / Grass
- filler
Better short-term check to Aegislash, Greninja, Gengar, and a few other special attackers, with enough Speed to outrun Jolly Bisharp, Jolly Mega Tyranitar, and Adamant Mega Gyarados, which is great as the latter two are very dangerous to our core.
CAP @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hydro Pumo
- Hidden Power Electric / Grass
- filler
Powerful nuke that will only be able to check Aegislash and other strong special attackers once, but in exchange it makes sure that unless the opponent has Chansey and Blissey, something is going down. Also, this set is fast enough to outrun even threats such as Mega Garchomp, neutral-natured Kyurem-B, neutral-natured Mega Charizard X, Jolly Excadrill, and most Gliscor.
In a few words
This stat spread makes the CAP able to check at least once most of the threats we want, and very hard to wall outside of a few select Pokemon, namely Chansey, Blissey, and Goodra, while providing just enough Speed to make the CAP useful against offensive teams and outspeed some dangerous Pokemon we can't check defensively, such as Mega Garchomp and Excadrill. This spread also leaves quite a bit of room for many different options, as shown by the suggested sets, with anything from max HP / 0 Speed to 0 HP / max Speed and max SpA being viable.
CAP18 so far:
Leadership Team:
DetroitLolcat - Topic Leader
jas61292 - Typing Leader
PttP - Ability Leader
srk1214 - Stats Leader
ginganinja - Movepool Leader
Concept: Major Third
General Description: A Pokemon that forms an effective offensive or defensive core with two lesser-used OU Pokemon.
Justification: Cores have always been an integral part of the metagame, whether you're running Talonflame/Staraptor to brute force everything, Slowbro/Amoonguss/Heatran for Regenerator-Leftovers stalling, or a whole team of Dragons + Magnezone. We've previously explored what it takes to make a successful partnership in CAP11 (Voodoom), but the metagame (and the simulator!) has changed dramatically since Voodoom's creation. I would also like to up the ante a little bit: Instead of just one, can we now take TWO Pokemon and find their missing piece? Whether we opt to build on an established two-Pokemon partnership or choose two previously unrelated Pokemon and put them together, I think that we can certainly find a Voodoom for a more offensive time.
Questions to Be Answered:
- How do effective cores in the current metagame differ fundamentally from the cores of previous metagames, if at all?
- Is synergy as important (relative to power) in the current metagame as it previously has been? (That is, has power creep rendered synergy unnecessary?)
- What differences are there between tailoring a Pokemon to two others and tailoring it to one? What else must be considered besides weaknesses and resistances?
- How does the addition of a Pokemon to a core change what other Pokemon can be effectively run alongside the core?
- Does Team Preview make running cores more difficult?
- Is it possible to create a core uncounterable by a single Pokemon? (For example, Celebi/Heatran/Jellicent was a very effective BW core that got slaughtered by Tyranitar. Can a core force opponents to counter it with another core?)
- Tagging onto the above, what is required to "counter-core" a core? What combination of offensive and defensive characteristics among "counter-core" members achieves this?
Typing: Fire / WaterPokemon CAP18 should threaten:
It's important that, first and foremost, we threaten the Pokemon and strategies that our core has no answer to. In general, the degree to which a Pokemon threatens Latias and Lucario should be the degree to which CAP18 threatens that Pokemon.
Ghost-type Pokemon: Aegislash, Gengar
Fairy-type Pokemon: Clefable, Mawile predominantly. Togekiss, Sylveon and Azumarill to somewhat lesser extents.
Some Fire-type Pokemon: Mega Charizard Y, Heatran, Talonflame to a much lesser extent.
Bug-type Pokemon: Scizor, Forretress, Volcarona.
Ground-type Pokemon*: Landorus-Therian, Hippowdon, Excadrill.
When I say "to a lesser extent", I mean that CAP 18 should be a threatening presence to this Pokemon, but it should not be an ultra-reliable counter. CAP18 should perform well against every Pokemon on this list, but that doesn't mean CAP18 needs to unconditionally switch into and force out these Pokemon. It should likely be able to do one or the other, but countering all of these Pokemon is neither feasible nor recommended.
CAP18 should be able to handle, either by switching in or 1v1, the Pokemon that defeat at least one of our core members that the other one cannot switch into. For example, Mega Charizard X is a Pokemon that defeats Lucario 1v1 that Latias can't switch into. If Multiscale is active, so is Dragonite. Gyarados, before it Mega Evolves, fits this bill.
*With a weakness to Ground, this will be a difficult task. We should threaten these Pokemon as well as we can, but we should not expect to counter Ground-types, but rather defeat them 1v1.
Pokemon CAP18 should be threatened by:
We should be okay with CAP 18 losing to Pokemon that the rest of our core handles well. For example, Latias is a tremendous answer to Rotom-W, and CAP18 is weak to Electric and does not have a STAB that can hit Rotom-W even neutrally. Rotom-W isn't particularly bothered by Fire- and Water-type support options, so making Rotom-W anything other than a threat to CAP18 is fitting a square peg into a round hole. Keldeo is a similar example, although Keldeo is so commonly paired with Pursuit Aegislash (the bane of this core) that it's not safe to let Keldeo counter this CAP.
Bulky Waters: Rotom-W, Keldeo to a much smaller extent.
Bulky Dragons: Latias, Latios, Goodra.
Walls with minimal offensive presence: Chansey, Blissey.
Pokemon not on either of our threatlists should be overly specifically threatening or threatened by CAP 18. Just because a Pokemon is not in the second list doesn't mean it is our prerogative to beat it. The same goes with Pokemon not in the first list: we shouldn't be expected to lose to every Pokemon that we don't threaten.
Abilities: Analytic / ??? / ???
