CAP 24 CAP 24 - Part 1 - Concept Submissions

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#51
Ok, so, besides the fact that this is really similar to a WIP I was planning on finishing today and had already posted *grumbles about reading original posting rules* would you be able to provide a full list of what are considered "copying moves." So, for example, I can assume intuitively moves like Mimic are on there, but what about Mirror Move? Assist? Additionally, you've listed heart swap, which isn't a copying move persay, but a boost stealing move. Something more along the lines of copying would be Psych Up, but you haven't listed that so I don't know if that's anything being considered.
I apologize for any vagueness regarding my concept, but its key feature is that it learns a lot of duplicating moves but not Transform. Both of these ideas are compatible and do not overlap. I'll add the list of copying moves I identify in a moment under Explanation, as well as potential justifications. There is no need for conflict between our concepts.
 
#52
  • Name - Going Solo
  • Description - This Pokemon fully capitalizes on its single typing, rather than a dual-typing.
  • Justification - This is an Actualization project that works inside the restriction of single-typing. This will give us a chance to fully explore a single typing in a vacuum, perhaps shed some light on the limits of offensive coverage of single typing as well as how far the defensive benefits can be pushed. While single typing pokemon do exist in CAP such as Clefable or Chansey, it will be interesting to see whether a Pokemon can be made to take advantage of their single typing on as many fronts as possible (offensively, defensively, utility), as well as deciding the typing that best allows for offensive, defensive, and utility benefits. Similarly it will be interesting to create a Pokemon that ties into its typing with every stage, unlike a single-type like Mew that often solely uses its typing for defensive benefit.

  • Questions To Be Answered -
    • Can a single-typing mon have offensive presence in the CAP metagame?
    • Which single typing is the best all-round fit for CAP?
    • What allows a single typing mon to excel where a dual type that shares its single typing might fail? How can this be capitalized on?
    • Can a single-typing mon break away from the one-note roles of current CAP single-types such as Chansey, Clefable, Alomomola, and Tangrowth?
    • What will be the best way to maximize on the small defensive benefits of single typing when it comes to ability and movepool? Will it be possible to maximize the benefits in a way that overrides the disadvantages?
    • How does restriction in one area (typing) affect the stats, ability, and movepool required for a pokemon to be viable?
    • How can a single-typing mon fit cleanly into CAP cores and synergize best with top CAP threats?

  • Explanation - In both OU and CAP, single typings are scarce. Stratagem is the only single-type CAP mon, and in many cases teams will run entirely dual-type mons, with only Clefable, Tangrowth and Chansey sitting in the A- tier of viability rankings for CAP (of which 46 pokemon exist at the A- rank or higher). I think it will be interesting to explore the very small niche of single-typing mons, and attempt to fully maximize the small benefits they grant in order to make them viable. This project is going to zoom in a small set of positives and a relatively big set of negatives and try and reverse that- in order to do so it will require good exploration/knowledge of the metagame to place the negatives in areas where they are nullified, and pinpoint key areas/interactions where the positives will come in extremely useful. Furthermore, itll be really interesting to see how restriction in one area (typing) causes stats, ability, and movepool to be affected- for instance, mons like Kyurem-B can be viable because despite their typing and movepool being lacking, their stats and ability make up for it. Smeargle has a horrendous stat total, typing, and ability, yet has found usage in the past thanks to its excellent movepool. Whether the Pokemon gets a similar boon in its other areas will be interesting to see, and will be informative as to how detrimental its single-typing is.
I hope this doesnt fall into the category of "specific type" suggestions, since choosing typing is still a part of the process.
 
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DetroitLolcat

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#53
Final Submissions

Name: No Fly Zone

Description: A Pokemon that counters, weakens, or reduces the viability of Flying-type Pokemon and moves.

Justification: It's no joke that Flying is one of the strongest types in the CAP metagame right now. The two best Pokemon in the tier: Landorus-Therian and Tomohawk - are both Flying-type. Many of the best sweepers and wallbreakers in the tier - such as Hawlucha, Charizard-Y and Cawmodore - also use and abuse powerful Flying-type moves or at the very least abuse the resistances and immunities their typing grants them. On the defensive side of things, Celesteela is one of the most powerful walls in the tier - and also a stealth sweeper when given a Z-Crystal. This is a Target concept, aimed at targeting both Flying-type Pokemon and Pokemon that spam Flying-type moves. While "bird spam" isn't what it was in Gen VI, many of the CAP metagame's sweepers, wallbreakers, and pivots effectively use their Flying type to find set-up opportunities and shut down opposing Ground- and Fighting-type Pokemon.

Questions to be Answered:
How are the two best Pokemon in the game able to use a seemingly mediocre defensive type to such avail?

Is it possible for a single Pokemon to handle such a wide array of Pokemon that serve such diverse roles in the metagame?

If this Pokemon were to succeed in its concept, what teammates would it use to take advantage of the reduced viability of Flying-type Pokemon? What Pokemon would become more viable in general?

Explanation:

We all hate Landorus-T and Tomohawk, right? Let's do something about them! This concept is similar to Decentralizer, and I'm not going to lie that I made this concept with Decentralizer in mind. But instead of focusing on Pokemon, I took it a step further and focused on a typing that the best Pokemon in the game happen to share. This concept could go many ways: we could use Gravity and pound Celesteela, Charizard-Y, and Cawmodore with STAB Earthquakes, we could - for the first time in three generations - build an Ice-Type Pokemon to freeze those birds out of the sky, or we could go any other direction.

I like this concept because it has the potential to shake up the metagame in a way few concepts can. Look at Tomohawk and Landorus-T, now imagine if a single Pokemon had ample opportunities to switch in or even set up against both of them.

In response to the criticism about No Fly Zone "punishing" Pokemon that aren't colossal threats to the metagame, I see that as a feature, not a bug. There have been numerous, successful concepts that have "collateral damage". Look at Malaconda and its goal to weaken Water-type Pokemon. Plenty of marginally viable Water-type Pokemon were weakened by Malaconda, but usage and viability are a zero-sum game. Zapdos and Skarmory are going to be weakened by CAP 24? Cool! Maybe some Ground-types like Hippowdon will see some more usage now that they won't have to run Stone Edge.

What sets this concept apart from Decentralizers is that No Fly Zone specifically targets Pokemon up and down the chain of viability. Cawmodore being weakened? Maybe that will have a chain effect on hyper offense in CAP. There are also some Flying-types, such as Zapdos, that aren't "problems" in the metagame but are parts of popular cores; hamstringing one part of the core may weaken the core as a whole and create a ripple effect around the metagame.

I thank Drapionswing for the criticism; in my original submission I sold this concept as a Decentralizer, when in reality I intended it to be a whole lot more. Some of the charm - in my opinion - of this Concept is that it DOESN'T just say "here are the two best mons let's kill em"; it targets a limited selection of Pokemon that are common in all different team archetypes and tries to reduce their viability so other Pokemon can thrive.
 
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#54
I apologize for any vagueness regarding my concept, but its key feature is that it learns a lot of duplicating moves but not Transform. Both of these ideas are compatible and do not overlap. I'll add the list of copying moves I identify in a moment under Explanation, as well as potential justifications. There is no need for conflict between our concepts.
Ah, alright. Reading through the Explanation, it seemed like a lot of focus on Transform, so I thought it was included. I apologize, and thanks for clarifying that for me!
 
#56
WIP

  • Name - The Social Butterfly
  • Description - A Pokemon that can easily be used to build cores with a wide range of Pokemon.
  • Justification - I think Actualization and Target are justifications for this role.
    • Actualization: Creating a versatile Pokemon that gives the impression that core building/team building is an easy task. Landorus-T is said to be similar in versatility.
    • Target: Keeping the metagame fresh by encouraging new players to create competitive teams.

  • Questions To Be Answered -
    • Should focus be limited to a few specific roles the Pokemon can fill and which roles would be most suited for versatility in core building?
    • How likely is it for such a Pokemon to become OP in the metagame and what steps can be taken to prevent this?
    • Would this Pokemon be one that could take the place of a Pokemon in a preexisting core/set or could new cores be built around it?
    • What kinds of Pokemon would be good partners for a Pokemon designed for versatility?
    • Can focus on core building create a Pokemon that does well in Doubles but suffers in Singles or vice versa?
    • Can this concept bring in new players on its own merit or will other factors in the metagame also need to be considered?
    • How could this Pokemon and its intended effect of bringing in new players affect the metagame?
    • Where in the metagame do we want to see usage of this Pokemon?

  • Explanation - As a complete newbie to the competitive scene, core building and team building are important tasks that seem imposing to me. I want to create a Pokemon that can be considered like a tutorial in how to build cores, with its versatility lending towards ease of use. I think this in turn could encourage other new players to try their hand at building teams for competitive play.
 
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#57
Name - The Stabless
Description - An offensive Pokemon who has no reliable STAB moves.
Justification - This fits into the Actualization concept, as the pokemon having no STAB moves can see the impact of the STAB damage boost or how effective is coverage. This is also related to Target concept, as against this pokemon, you can either be an Defensive check (but you can't offensively check it), or an offensive check (but you can't defensively check it).
Questions To Be Answered:
1. Does the STAB damage boost make offensive Pokémon viable?
2. Why do some Pokemon choose not use STAB moves?
3. Is it necessary to run STAB moves?
4. What is the importance of coverage moves, and why do some pokemon not run coverage moves?
5. How would defensive pokemons to resist the attacks of this CAP differ from the offensive Pokemon that would super-effectively attack the CAP?
6. Would this CAP have to have high stats in order to be effective?
7. Should the CAP have an offensive or defensive typing?
Explanation - There are Pokemons that don't use STAB attacks even if it grants the x1.5 damage multiplier, either because they have no reliable STAB move (Kyurem-Black having no physical ice type moves and Kartanas best steel STAB being Smart Strike), or they have no reason to (Mawile-Mega has Iron head, but Dark type moves are more useful). On the other side, coverage moves are useful for any offensive Pokemon to target Pokemons that would normally wall. Pokemons such as Landorus-Therian and Garchomp uses normally useless moves such as Fly or Fire Fang to activate 1 one shot powerful coverage move. I would want to know whether STAB moves are necessary for an offensive Pokemon, and if the x1.5 multiplier for a STAB is always beneficial. We should have an offensive typing that could work as a defensive typing as well, unlike Mawile or Kartana which have a not very offensive type of steel.
 

Deck Knight

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#58
Made a significant number of changes to my concept, including adding more questions and actually removing the Archetype sentence because it's a concept I think is flexible enough to actually make that a discussion rather than forcing it to be an offensive pivot at the outset.
 
#59
Name - Unpredictable-ish
Description - A Pokemon that can change forms and Hazard and Set-up moves like Stealth Rocks and Swords Dance giving it allowing it to have Defensive and Offensive prowess.
Justification - This falls mostly under Actualization mainly because of its ability to probably to have a way to run Defensive and Offensive sets
and very few Pokemon rarely get this opportunity.
Actualization - I feel like there should be more Pokemon in CAP with the ability to change forms as it would make the Meta more versatile and unique in many ways.
Questions to be answered
- How will something like this affect the CAP meta
- Excluding Crucibelle which has a mega, why don't we see more Form-changing Pokemon in the CAP meta.
- Will unpredictability become a severe problem if it becomes to powerful.

Explanation
This is an idea that I've had for quite a while now ever since Aegislash was released in Gen 6.I wanted to make a Pokemon that could somehow mimic Aegislash's ability to become both Defensive and Offensive while having decent counters so it would't wreck havoc on the meta. My original concept was to give this Pokemon access to stance change and protection moves like King's Shield or Spiky Shield. I also wanted to give this Pokemon's forms that specialized only in Defense and Physical Attacks. But then I thought to my self how would this CAP affect today's meta. So I wanted to make sure it was a strong a viable Pokemon but it could be decently countered so it wouldn't become a problem.
I see this CAP with the potential to either become a dedicated lead or a late-game sweeper, which ever the player decides to use. I feel like the creativity that this CAP will offer a lot to today's Smogon CAP meta and something like this could inspire new and similar, but not to strong CAPs.
 
#60
Name - Unpredictable-ish
Description - A Pokemon that can change forms and Hazard and Set-up moves like Stealth Rocks and Swords Dance giving it allowing it to have Defensive and Offensive prowess.
Justification - This falls mostly under Actualization mainly because of its ability to probably to have a way to run Defensive and Offensive sets
and very few Pokemon rarely get this opportunity.
Actualization - I feel like there should be more Pokemon in CAP with the ability to change forms as it would make the Meta more versatile and unique in many ways.
Questions to be answered
- How will something like this affect the CAP meta
- Excluding Crucibelle which has a mega, why don't we see more Form-changing Pokemon in the CAP meta.
- Will unpredictability become a severe problem if it becomes to powerful.

Explanation
This is an idea that I've had for quite a while now ever since Aegislash was released in Gen 6.I wanted to make a Pokemon that could somehow mimic Aegislash's ability to become both Defensive and Offensive while having decent counters so it would't wreck havoc on the meta. My original concept was to give this Pokemon access to stance change and protection moves like King's Shield or Spiky Shield. I also wanted to give this Pokemon's forms that specialized only in Defense and Physical Attacks. But then I thought to my self how would this CAP affect today's meta. So I wanted to make sure it was a strong a viable Pokemon but it could be decently countered so it wouldn't become a problem.
I see this CAP with the potential to either become a dedicated lead or a late-game sweeper, which ever the player decides to use. I feel like the creativity that this CAP will offer a lot to today's Smogon CAP meta and something like this could inspire new and similar, but not to strong CAPs.
Name: This Isn't Even My Final Form

Description:

This Pokemon utilizes one or more mid-battle form changes to change its role depending on the opponent's team and the way the battle has progressed.
  • Do not duplicate or closely-resemble Concepts already posted by others. It is your responsibility to read through all previous submissions in this thread to ensure you are complying with this rule. Ignorance or laziness is not an excuse.
Since some time (like generation 4), new CAPs can't have new moves, abilities, type, or any other new mechanics not released in official games
If I am minimodding well sorry, but I'm just pointing out
 

Birkal

We have the technology.
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#61
Just letting y'all know that we will be wrapping submissions up in roughly 48 hours. Make sure to get those submissions finalized!
 
#62
Sorry about the wait, but round 2 is here!

King of Bluffing - This is a really well constructed concept that gets into the minds of both the player and the opponent. Just needs a few more questions and it'll be an even greater concept.

Scizor of the Sun - My problem with this concept is Sun isn't exactly a great weather right now with mediocre setters. This would then lead for a Pokemon being held down by sun and the counterparts in my opinion. Maybe expand on methods of avoiding this in your Questions.

Master Poisoner - Not a fan of this concept, I think it just needs more convincing aspects to prove its worth over a gimmick.

Z-Utility Toolbox - I think this concept needs to outline some interesting or cool status z moves. This sounds like a hard concept particularly because it competes with other z move users, and the options of z moves to me seems limited.

Re-Centraliser - I think this is a really well constructed concept, only nitpick is probably if you would outline whether the re-centralisation effect should be short term or long term. PM me if you need more elaboration on that.

'Mon in the mirror- Please expand more on this concept if you want actual feedback

Multi Terrain Vehicle - Firstly, awesome name. Secondly, a very important option of counterplay against terrain abusers is changing the terrain. Base some questions around this, whether multiple sets are ideal or should one set be able to abuse multiple terrains etc.

Nothing Special - This concept is simple, however I don't see the fun in the concept. What does "playable mean". You should also add some more examples of pokemon of this nature in the metagame, if there are any.

The Elemental Chameleon - Well thought out and constructed concept, however your Questions need to be a bit clearer to make sure your point is made across. PM for help if needed :)

Bravest of All - This concept is well done, however I don't think your example of Talonflame is the best example. While Talonflame was definitely carried by an amazing ability, it also had some useful traits in its other areas such as Movepool, Offensive Typing and amazing speed for its other stab to be used.

Deterring Hazard Layers - I'm not sure how to achieve this concept, new abilities aren't allowed and I'm not sure this is achievable outside of a new ability. While we could utilise stuff like berries etc, it would be hard to distract it from using other sets. Expand more on your Questions and Explanation.

The Bishop - This is definitely and interesting concept, however what does it achieve at the end of the process? I don't think your questions encapsulate exactly what you're trying to get across in its entirety. Another thing to note, is that a lot of Pokemon can just sweep when counters are removed, but it's about how counters are removed.

A Coat of Many Colors - This concept is interesting and has chance to reignite a really cool item group that has seen less usage over the years. Questions regarding competition with other items, as well as questions regarding how hard we should focus on using these items.

Once bitten, twice shy... - This is a cool concept, however I think that you may have gotten mixed up between attacking and over aggressive play. Things like contact punishment doesn't have to be obtained from necessarily over aggressive play. Are you sure you meant over aggressive? PM me for any help on this concept

Glue It Together - I think this is a really cool concept, I would find more examples of these combinations that are less gimmicky but still as unique and powerful.

Snow or Shine (or Sand) - One thing I really like about this concept is that it actually promotes alternate ways of weather abusing, allowing for an interesting and probably educational process.

The Cooler Daniel - I'm not really a fan of this concept, you definitely need to explain the values of adding such a pokemon into the metagame. PM me if you need :)

Will have post 2 or 3 more reviews over the next few days, if anyone needs anymore help feel free to message me for direct help!
 
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#63
Final Submission
  • Name - From Nobody To Nightmare
  • Description - A Pokemon that's useless or at most difficult to use in the early phase of a match, but becomes a formidable threat as the match continues.
  • Justification - This concept combines Actualization and Archetype, because it invokes a specific type of combatant, a tank or sweeper that is very difficult to use offensively early on but becomes very dangerous if it can survive long enough to be used in circumstances more ideal for it.
    • Actualization - The key takeaway from this project would be to understand how the circumstances of a battle can change over time along with how these changes affect Pokemon from one situation to the next. A Pokemon can be extremely dangerous in one particular matchup and pretty much deadweight in another, and it's important to understand why, how, and when the odds can turn either against or in favor of it.
    • Archetype - We're looking at a late-game sweeper or tank, specifically one that would be very difficult to use in the early stages of a match due to disadvantages or a lack of advantages against foes most likely to be brought into play at this point. Conversely, if it manages to survive long enough and find the right time to mobilize later on, it can potentially decimate other late-game combatants. The most important aspect of using this Pokemon is knowing when to bring it out and how to prepare it for pulling off a late-game sweep or turnaround, otherwise it may arrive too early and expose key weaknesses that can then be exploited.

Questions To Be Answered
  • What would make this CAP stand out among other late-game sweepers? In particular, what do any existing examples of late-game sweepers that are much harder to use effectively, if any, have in common? What could this concept do to make it different from these examples?
  • Do we want this CAP have a more active support role early on? Since it has to rely on its teammates to pick off early-game threats, should it remain out of play and rely wholly on team support or should it help its team more actively?
  • What strategies should we consider with this CAP? Should we bring it out early and have it stall for time until it can find the right moment to strike, or let other teammates do the work for it and bring it out later?
  • What are the most common strengths and weaknesses of commonly used Pokemon from the early stages of a match? What are those from Pokemon used in later stages? In what ways can this CAP be rendered vulnerable to the former and strong against the latter?
  • Can this CAP be used effectively on offensive teams, defensive teams, or both?
  • Conversely, can this CAP be used effectively as a counter to offensive teams, defensive teams, or both?
  • What would be the most effective way to ensure that this CAP remains alive until it can be used? Are we looking for a frail but speedy Pokemon that can switch out of threats or a sturdier one that can remain in play to defend against them?

Explanation
In most instances when I played in online tournaments using Pokemon Showdown, my favorite strategy has always been one of ambush, waiting for the enemy to make a wrong move and then capitalizing on it. However, when an enemy team is fully stocked with all members present and functional, waiting for the right time to strike can be difficult, since knocking out one enemy can provide an opening for another. In most cases, my defeat came about by bringing out team members too soon and failing to study the pros and cons of certain foes. The concept I'm proposing epitomizes the "wait and see" strategy in that it does precisely that, because if you use it too early then it can become easy pickings without the correct setup or timing that can allow it to go up against foes it has the advantage against. A good example I can think of off the top of my head is Volcorona, which has immensely powerful Special Attack and access to Quiver Dance, but a 4x weakness to Stealth Rock, middling speed compared to certain Choice Scarf users like Garchomp, and vulnerability to priority users like Mega Mawile. It needs lots of team support to get rid of hazards and chase away counters, but once those are out of the way, it's nigh unstoppable. In the case of the CAP, I can easily see different stat builds being used to fill the role, with either a defensive Pokemon that has to stall early-game enemies and help teammates fight them off before bringing its attack power to bear, or a fast, aggressive sweeper that's forced to switch out or remain out of play in the face of early-game counters while itself serving as a counter to other Pokemon that are more frequently used later.
 
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mxmts

Vencedor Vencido
is a CAP Contributor
#64
I'd like to share my thoughs about some of the concepts:

No Fly Zone: I'm torn about this on. On one hand, Flying is undoubtedly one of the best offensive types in CAP, and having a concept about studying their strengths and weaknesses is a great idea. However, the main reason why Flying is such a good typing is because is able to check some of the most dominating Pokemon in the meta, such as Arghonaut, Pyroak and Tomohawk, and they already possess a fair share of checks and counters, like Zapdos, Cyclohm, Krilowatt, Crucibelle and Tapu Koko. This leads me to fear that having a concept built around weakening them might have a very negative impact in the metagame, as it could generate a meta were mons that previously feared Flying-type run rampant, while CAP 24 covers their previous weakness.

Scizor of the Sun: I'm not a big fan of this concept, as DrapionSwing said before, Sun is not a great playstyle right now. Mons like Ferrothorn and Scizor fit perfectly on Rain teams because they already have great abusers like M-Swampert, Kingdra and Ash-Greninja, and they serve as the glue that makes the team come together. Sun, on the other hand, is not nearly as good, mostly because you need to choose between either having abusers with Fire STAB boosted or with their speed doubled, as no Fire-Type has access to Chlorophyll. All in all, I don't think this idea has what is needed to serve as a successful concept.

Master Poisoner: I think this is one of the most underrated concepts submitted. While it may appear simple on the surface, there's actually quite a few ways this concept could work, with options such as Merciless, Poison Touch, Venoshock and Hex. In my opinion Poison is probably the best the best status in the metagame right now, as it allows threats like Zygarde to break though stuff like Tomohawk and Arghonaut, who would otherwise stop it completely. Even standard poison can prove to be deadly at the right time, as it is not longer completely outclassed by burns, and threats like M-Crucibelle are able to abuse it by spamming Gunk Shot, allowing it to break past Tomohawk most of the time.

The Social Butterfly: This concept is great on paper, but in practice, it has some pretty big flaws. First of all, CAP has a terrible track record with core-based concepts, we already failed to build a core three times, with Voodoom (Yes, it worked with Zapdos, but it's partner was supposed to be Togekiss), Volkraken and Plasmanta, and this aims to further explore this subject, that we should know CAP doesn't do very well. Second, I believe that the power level required to create to easily fit into cores might be far too much for our own good. When I think of a Pokemon that fits this description, the first one that comes to my mind is Tomohawk, and I think that illustrates the amount of strength necessary to accomplish this goal pretty well.

Nothing Special: I just don't get this concept at all. If a Pokemon doesn't have anything special, it won't be used. Even mons that might appear mediocre at first sight need to have something to set themselves apart, Breloom has access to Spore and two great abilities, Talonflame had the strongest priority in the game, Clefable has a great typing, amazing movepool and two amazing abilities. No Pokemon can succeed if they truly have nothing special.

The is Future is Bright!: I like this one, Future Sight is a move that is almost never used competitively, but I definitively agree that it has potential to be used if we build our mon around it. Psychic is also a good offensive typing, and while it could be theoretically just be neutralized by switching a Dark-Type, this would be easy to predict, allowing you to nail them with the appropiate coverage easily.

Junk Lover: This concept it's pretty straightforward, and I like it, but I don't think there are too many ways of making use of most unviable items, if you want to Trick them to your opponent, a Choice item would probably do a similar job at crippling your foe, while still being useful to you.

Snow or Shine (Or Sand): I like this one a lot, concepts trying to explore the less viable weathers are always interesting, we should be able to tackle two at the same time in this project.

Going Solo: I would love to see a single-typed CAP, but unfortunately, the idea is not nearly enough to merit a whole concept for it.

Sorry if I didn't review your concept, I just went through the ones I found the most interesting, but it's very likely that I missed a few good ones.
 

reachzero

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#65
With the thread winding down, I thought it was a good time to try to spark some discussion by talking about some concepts I like, including (obviously) my own.

The Gambit

Anyone who played RSE or DPP remembers the feeling of switching Swampert into Metagross or Blissey into Heatran, and the trepidation over the possibility of making a mistake--losing a key defensive Pokemon to a well-placed Explosion. At the same time, such a move was a calculated risk, as you might need the Metagross to take a CB Aerodactyl Rock Slide (in RSE) or Heatran to counter Expert Belt Jirachi (in DPP). I developed this concept as a study of the ideas of win conditions and risk assessment--when is it worth it to sacrifice a Pokemon, when the safer play is to keep it? It would also be fascinating to see what suicide attacking tactics we would choose now that it isn't as simple as just slapping Explosion on anything with a reasonably decent Attack stat.

Berserker

What makes this concept fascinating to me is that it is both really doable (we have all the tools to make it happen, in more than one way) and really difficult (there are a lot of avenues of potential counterplay to account for). Like The Gambit, "Berserker" style attackers used to be a thing in competitive Pokemon--whether we are talking about SubPetaya Empoleon in DPP or SubSD Heracross in RSE--yet are no longer used to any appreciable extent. It would be great to have a concept that explores why, while also looking at the tools we have in USUM to bring the strategy back.

Down the Drain

Strength Sap is a unique mechanic, and CAP has always thrived on exploring unique mechanics. No one really knows where this would lead, and that is a pretty strong draw. It would also be a pretty strong, welcome push for defensive play in a metagame that is currently very offensively oriented.

This Isn't Normal/Unconventional Warfare

What makes this concept attractive to me is the competitive weirdness of it. It calls for a threat that is utterly unlike most in the metagame, which is obviously a good challenge for us to get beyond the usual roles of sweeper/wallbreaker/wall/utility. Discussing this concept with a few others has brought up some really out-there ideas (Wonder Room?!), which demonstrates the ability of this concept to introduce some really new things.

Coat of Many Colors
Resist berries are one of the most underutilized and underappreciated tactics we have in Pokemon, and I'm pleased indeed to see a whole concept dedicated to their use. It also forces us to look right in the face of one of the things CAP has traditionally hated to do, which is giving our CAPs Typing weaknesses. With resist berries appearing a little more in recent SPL games using Yache Landorus-T and Shuca Tapu Koko, this would be a good time to pursue this idea.

No Fly Zone

Tomohawk isn't the dominant force it was in ORAS and Landorus-T will rarely win a game for you outright, but almost every serious CAP team has one or the other, so this concept makes sense. If we are serious about building CAPs for the CAP metagame, watching over the metagame for things like type balance is important and this concept would be a step in the right direction.
 
#66
Final Subsmission!
New Dog, Old Trick
- This concept is basically a new CAP that performs the same role as before but different mon and stats, henceforth the reversal of the dog and trick in its name.
  • Description - As mentioned before, same role but different types and stats and ect. I really wanted to see how it would be able to work in the game.
  • Justification - Is an archetype as it does the same roles but with the different stats, abilities and type. An example of this is like a Special Landorus-T but the concept itself is pretty simple.
  • Questions To Be Answered:
  • >How will the CAP do in the metagame
  • >How can it achive this goal?
  • >What will make it stand out from the rest of the threats in CAP.
  • Explanation - I thought of this while I was on discord and I wanted to see if I would be able to make a successful concept for the CAP meta. Its concept is fairly simple (as mentioned before twice) but I still want it to work.
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#67
I guess I'll go in and share my thoughts on certain submissions, if yours isn't here it's probably because I had nothing to add, but you can pm me for thoughts on Pokemon Showdown if you want to hear my opinion!

The Super Stat Boost Theif
I think this concept has a lot of potential as there are many unexplored moves and mechanics that it can bring to the forefront of discussion, especially because of the popularity of stat boosters in the meta. Additionally, it's pretty open for discussion and would be pretty cool from a process point of view. Overall I think this would be a good concept.

Fuerza Terrenal AND These terrains got nothing on me
I like the idea behind this concept but I don't think the questions asked really do it justice, I think it would be good to discuss with other CAPers for what questions may help, and I as well as the rest of the TLT should be open to discuss!

Save me from the darkness
As ability leader, I like the idea of exploring underused abilities, but I think you may want to add some more to the submission to make it easier to discuss.

Berserker
I think this submissions provide very ample room to explore not only the mechanics of Pokemon and the metagame in general, but it can also explore the mechanics of competitive play and of HP gambling. The competitive discussion this could lead to would be very interesting and I think the post thoroughly explains how this concept would play out. Overall this is one of my favorites.

Flat Earther
As my good friend snake_rattler said on Discord, I don't think Gravity is a good enough basis for a concept. It has two relevant effects: grounding Flying-types/Levitate users and boosting accuracy, and these effects only last 5 turns. Obviously, there are some unexplored moves with low accuracy (I personally think Inferno + Zap Cannon + Blizzard would be funny) and grounding Flying-types might hurt Skarmory, Zapdos, and Rotom-W, but overall I don't feel this submission really would explore that much and wouldn't lead to good discussion. Also the name makes no sense.

This Isn't Normal! / Unconventional Warfare
I've always enjoyed concepts that explore how one can alter battle scenarios to their advantage, and I really would enjoy exploring how this Pokemon would be balanced and just generally how it would be created, and I think it is very well crafted.

Nothing Special
I don't think this concept would lead to good discussion personally, as having literally no special aspects would probably make for, wait for it, a mon with literally no special aspects, and from just a design standpoint that wouldn't be fun to make your use.

Glue it together
I like the idea of this concept, but this submission definitely needs dome more meat. I'd add more questions and general discussion points.
 
#68
Drapionswing said:
Master Poisoner - Not a fan of this concept, I think it just needs more convincing aspects to prove its worth over a gimmick.
With all due respect, I'm honestly not even sure what your complaint/issue with my suggestion is. While I can see the argument that it might be a tad bit gimmicky, there are several gimmicky Pokemon/strategies that are considered effective in the metagame. What comes to mind immediately is Cawmodore, which was built around a gimmick of using Belly Drum to sweep. Unless I'm mistaken, Cawmodore is seen as a viable, if risky, Pokemon to use in the metagame, and I don't see why this concept couldn't produce a similar result. Furthermore, I honestly do feel as if we are overlooking a large part of Poison's potential usage in favor of the "obvious" or "correct" way to use it. As a proof of concept, I did some calcs (which I won't put up unless requested, to avoid any possible issues of poll-jumping) using an offensively built Toxapex with Merciless. The thing OHKO's or 2HKO's a considerable chunk of the OU metagame, and not just frail targets either. Again, I'm not trying to poll jump or influence later discussions in any way, but if Toxapex of all things can put together a half-way decent offense using this idea, I'm sure we as a community can make something interesting and informative using it.

I did edit my original post to try and address your comments, but again, I'm not even sure what I'm supposed to address. If there's a particular reason it's a bad concept, I'm more than willing to hear it and fix the issue. At present, however, I'm confused as what the issue is.

mxmts said:
Master Poisoner: I think this is one of the most underrated concepts submitted. While it may appear simple on the surface, there's actually quite a few ways this concept could work, with options such as Merciless, Poison Touch, Venoshock and Hex. In my opinion Poison is probably the best the best status in the metagame right now, as it allows threats like Zygarde to break though stuff like Tomohawk and Arghonaut, who would otherwise stop it completely. Even standard poison can prove to be deadly at the right time, as it is not longer completely outclassed by burns, and threats like M-Crucibelle are able to abuse it by spamming Gunk Shot, allowing it to break past Tomohawk most of the time.
Thank you! I avoided mentioning specific Abilities/Moves/Combos to avoid poll jumping, but this is the core of what I'm getting at. I'm glad at least one person gets it :blobthumbsup:.
 
#69
I don't know if it came through, but Drapionswing, I sent you a full explanation of the concept [It included specific moves so I couldn't post it here]. I don't use the forums much, so I don't know if it came through. Last CAP, my post wasn't considered due to formatting. Does anyone with more experience than me know if my post fits the rules?
 

Squawkerz

Torchic is best mon
#70
quick question, before the slate ends. am i allowed to have a hide tag in my submission if it's in the explanation, or should i remove it?
 

Deck Knight

CAP Triple Crown
is a CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
#71
Also going to post my thoughts. Obviously I like my own so here are some others:

The Super Stat Boost Thief:
I've always liked the type of moves and strategies that flip star-boosters on their heads, and having a mon exclusively for this purpose would be cool. Krilowatt actually used to be able to do this with Heart Swap, but speed creep has really caught up with it.

Berserker:
Beserserker is a cool throwback to past Gens and strategies that some Gen 7 moves and abilities are particularly excellent at enabling this strategy.

No Fly Zone:
Of the Target concepts I think this is the most defined and gives us a set of Pokemon with viable offensive and defensive sets to contend with, which is a great challenge.

These aren't exhaustive of the one's I think would work, but Weather / Terrain seems like well-played ground, and 1 for 1 exchanges are interesting but I feel like they don't challenge the paradigm of Pokemon that can put it work on multiple Pokemon on the opponents team, which seems to be a common trait on the most viable CAPs.
 
#72
Good Vibrations
  • Description - I propse that CAP24 should commonly utilise Sonic Moves: That is, moves which are primarily blocked by Soundproof, and often bypass the effects of Substitute.
  • Justification - Utilizing the CAP Concept Toolkit, craft a concept that can fit into at least one of the following categories: Actualization, Archetype, or Target. Please explicitly state the category names as applicable to your specific justification and explain.
    • Actualization: while we have several mon who have the ability to bypass defenses in this way, such as through the Infiltrator ability, it is not a readily used option, and is seen as inferior to their other options. Sound based moves allows the ability to bypass Substitute, without the weakness of giving up an ability choice. There are a few mon who can make use of some of the High BP moves, especially those with a type changing ability, but outside of Pixilate Hyper Voice, you don't see any of the others.
    • Archetype: The use of Sound Based Moves allows the mon to fulfil a role ranging from outright Sweeper, provide Cleric abilities, and Tank thanks to Rest/Snore. It also has the ability with certain moves to bypass Substitute to take on common users like Volkraken or Zygarde. Alternatively, a status spreader or debuffer are all options available. Any one, or all can be fulfilled via the moves chosen, especially with the widened validity of Z-Moves.
  • Questions To Be Answered - Why is it that hitting through Substitute is so poorly considered in the current meta? Substitute is reasonably wide spread in availability, (ie near everyone), but only a select few make use of it, and only a select few make use of abilities to bypass it within the CAP meta. Is there a reason enough to want to use it? How do we make a mon utilizing these sound based moves not be proven irrelevant if the opponent doesn't pack a Subuser? Can the use of Soundbased Moves encourage users with Soundproof mon to take more of a front-run, or are they themselves just too unviable?
  • Explanation - i think it is rather self evident. It's easy enough to slap on a high BP move that just so happens to be able to hit through Substitute, but its going to be a bit more in depth to build a mon which can utilize the properties of Sound well enough.
 

Birkal

We have the technology.
is a member of the Site Staffis an Artistis a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Battle Server Admin Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
CAP Head Mod
#73
Name: Monotyped Movepool Menace

Description: This Pokemon, while fully competitive, has access to only one typing in its movepool.

Justification: It has been a significant amount of time since the Create-A-Pokemon Project has undergone an unconventional concept. Necturna was certainly unique with a concept based around Sketch, which ended up being an excellent process full of discussions on balancing a Pokemon that could potentially break the metagame. Similarly, through creating a Pokemon with only one typing available in its movepool, we will need to carefully discuss the actualization of a Pokemon that is both correctly balanced while fully competitive.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Basic: Which movepool typings are inherently strong? Which ones are inherently weak? How much does STAB play into this? How much do support moves play into this?
  • Basic: Which movepool typings allow Pokemon to "cover" their inherent weaknesses? Which abilities can help mitigate these shortcomings? How does a Pokemon find competitive flexibility when it is inherently restricted?
  • Intermediate: Which movepool typings are hard-walled by competitive Pokemon in the metagame? Would overcoming these walls result in our creation being overpowered? Does a Pokemon with significant constraints need a counter?
  • Intermediate: How much do stats play into the viability of a manually stunted Pokemon? Do stats need to be skewed significantly in order to compensate for a lack of variety? If so, in what way? If not, are balanced stats valued in the current metagame?
  • Advanced: Will a Pokemon with only one typing in its movepool give rise to any specific underused counters? Is this beneficial to the metagame as a whole? Are there specific Pokemon that we can increase the viability of through the creation of this Pokemon?
  • Advanced: In what ways can a Pokemon find competitive viability when it has a limited movepool? What characteristics make a Pokemon inherently viable in a metagame?
Explanation: At the risk of dissecting the current state of the Create-A-Pokemon Project, I feel that the past several concepts have played it a bit safe within the CAP Process. That is certainly not a bad thing ― we have learned a significant amount from our previous creations! But through pushing the boundaries of what the CAP Process can accommodate, I feel that we will stumble into some meaningful conversations that will be both memorable and revealing. Giving ourselves a specific constraint will open up our discussions in new and unique ways previously unavailable.

Initially, it may be tempting to "crunch the numbers" and determine the best typing to give a Pokemon with only one type accessible in its movepool. However, I believe we will have a much more hefty discussion attempting to balance our creation within the constraints of our movepool. Selecting the ideal typing may not allow us to buff the Pokemon's other attributes, resulting in a Pokemon that while powerful, is neither powerful nor meaningful enough to thrive in the metagame. Through carefully discussing and selecting a single movepool typing, we will set on the much more complicated and enjoyable task of finding the right balance on such an artificially restricted Pokemon.

Note that the concept is left extremely open-ended. The typing we choose for our Pokemon's movepool may not be STAB. Our creation may have two typings. This Pokemon may even, through our own admission, have a few moves that are not within the typing of its movepool. But all of these points, particularly the last one, excite me from a creation standpoint. If we have made it to the place in our conversations that we have deemed it IMPOSSIBLE to create a competitively balanced and viable Pokemon with only a single type movepool, that means that our discussions went so in-depth, that they exhausted all other possible options. I feel that this concept will find interesting twists and turns at each step of the process, despite the constraints it puts on the process. There is much to discuss through the selection of an unconventional concept such as this one at each and every competitive stage, from deciding the solitary movepool typing down to the inclusions and omissions of its movepool.

As a final note, I encourage you to re-read the questions listed above: they are specifically designed to demonstrate intrigue and the depth of discussion available through the concept. Thank you for reading!
 
#74
Good Vibrations
  • Description - I propse that CAP24 should commonly utilise Sonic Moves: That is, moves which are primarily blocked by Soundproof, and often bypass the effects of Substitute.
  • Justification - Utilizing the CAP Concept Toolkit, craft a concept that can fit into at least one of the following categories: Actualization, Archetype, or Target. Please explicitly state the category names as applicable to your specific justification and explain.
    • Actualization: while we have several mon who have the ability to bypass defenses in this way, such as through the Infiltrator ability, it is not a readily used option, and is seen as inferior to their other options. Sound based moves allows the ability to bypass Substitute, without the weakness of giving up an ability choice. There are a few mon who can make use of some of the High BP moves, especially those with a type changing ability, but outside of Pixilate Hyper Voice, you don't see any of the others.
    • Archetype: The use of Sound Based Moves allows the mon to fulfil a role ranging from outright Sweeper, provide Cleric abilities, and Tank thanks to Rest/Snore. It also has the ability with certain moves to bypass Substitute to take on common users like Volkraken or Zygarde. Alternatively, a status spreader or debuffer are all options available. Any one, or all can be fulfilled via the moves chosen, especially with the widened validity of Z-Moves.
  • Questions To Be Answered - Why is it that hitting through Substitute is so poorly considered in the current meta? Substitute is reasonably wide spread in availability, (ie near everyone), but only a select few make use of it, and only a select few make use of abilities to bypass it within the CAP meta. Is there a reason enough to want to use it? How do we make a mon utilizing these sound based moves not be proven irrelevant if the opponent doesn't pack a Subuser? Can the use of Soundbased Moves encourage users with Soundproof mon to take more of a front-run, or are they themselves just too unviable?
  • Explanation - i think it is rather self evident. It's easy enough to slap on a high BP move that just so happens to be able to hit through Substitute, but its going to be a bit more in depth to build a mon which can utilize the properties of Sound well enough.
How to do that:

Step 1: Give the mon decent SpA and Speed, preferably with usable typing
Step 2: Give it Boomburst

I don't really think we can make a mon "good" at using sound moves other than just giving it good stats. The main reason they are so rarely seen is that the main users of sound moves are pretty bad in the current meta (KommoO is walled by Unaware Clefable and most Celesteela sets, and Mega Gardevoir probably faces the same problems, never used that mon so idk lol)
Which is a shame since sound moves hit line a truck. In gen 6, Swellow only had 50 base SpA, yet its Choice Specs-boosted Boombursts were real nukes.
 
#75
Name: Monotyped Movepool Menace

Description: This Pokemon, while fully competitive, has access to only one typing in its movepool.

Justification: It has been a significant amount of time since the Create-A-Pokemon Project has undergone an unconventional concept. Necturna was certainly unique with a concept based around Sketch, which ended up being an excellent process full of discussions on balancing a Pokemon that could potentially break the metagame. Similarly, through creating a Pokemon with only one typing available in its movepool, we will need to carefully discuss the actualization of a Pokemon that is both correctly balanced while fully competitive.

Questions To Be Answered:
  • Basic: Which movepool typings are inherently strong? Which ones are inherently weak? How much does STAB play into this? How much do support moves play into this?
  • Basic: Which movepool typings allow Pokemon to "cover" their inherent weaknesses? Which abilities can help mitigate these shortcomings? How does a Pokemon find competitive flexibility when it is inherently restricted?
  • Intermediate: Which movepool typings are hard-walled by competitive Pokemon in the metagame? Would overcoming these walls result in our creation being overpowered? Does a Pokemon with significant constraints need a counter?
  • Intermediate: How much do stats play into the viability of a manually stunted Pokemon? Do stats need to be skewed significantly in order to compensate for a lack of variety? If so, in what way? If not, are balanced stats valued in the current metagame?
  • Advanced: Will a Pokemon with only one typing in its movepool give rise to any specific underused counters? Is this beneficial to the metagame as a whole? Are there specific Pokemon that we can increase the viability of through the creation of this Pokemon?
  • Advanced: In what ways can a Pokemon find competitive viability when it has a limited movepool? What characteristics make a Pokemon inherently viable in a metagame?
Explanation: At the risk of dissecting the current state of the Create-A-Pokemon Project, I feel that the past several concepts have played it a bit safe within the CAP Process. That is certainly not a bad thing ― we have learned a significant amount from our previous creations! But through pushing the boundaries of what the CAP Process can accommodate, I feel that we will stumble into some meaningful conversations that will be both memorable and revealing. Giving ourselves a specific constraint will open up our discussions in new and unique ways previously unavailable.

Initially, it may be tempting to "crunch the numbers" and determine the best typing to give a Pokemon with only one type accessible in its movepool. However, I believe we will have a much more hefty discussion attempting to balance our creation within the constraints of our movepool. Selecting the ideal typing may not allow us to buff the Pokemon's other attributes, resulting in a Pokemon that while powerful, is neither powerful nor meaningful enough to thrive in the metagame. Through carefully discussing and selecting a single movepool typing, we will set on the much more complicated and enjoyable task of finding the right balance on such an artificially restricted Pokemon.

Note that the concept is left extremely open-ended. The typing we choose for our Pokemon's movepool may not be STAB. Our creation may have two typings. This Pokemon may even, through our own admission, have a few moves that are not within the typing of its movepool. But all of these points, particularly the last one, excite me from a creation standpoint. If we have made it to the place in our conversations that we have deemed it IMPOSSIBLE to create a competitively balanced and viable Pokemon with only a single type movepool, that means that our discussions went so in-depth, that they exhausted all other possible options. I feel that this concept will find interesting twists and turns at each step of the process, despite the constraints it puts on the process. There is much to discuss through the selection of an unconventional concept such as this one at each and every competitive stage, from deciding the solitary movepool typing down to the inclusions and omissions of its movepool.

As a final note, I encourage you to re-read the questions listed above: they are specifically designed to demonstrate intrigue and the depth of discussion available through the concept. Thank you for reading!
What, I have to compete with this?
I do think it is a good choice though. CAP is not only meant for pokemons that should be realistic in a Pokemon game (although that is one goal), and this is a new approach to see how different gameplay from this CAP. Although it's kinda the opposite of my concept :(
Damn it's two times as long

Name - The Stabless
Description - An offensive Pokemon who has no reliable STAB moves.
Justification - This fits into the Actualization concept, as the pokemon having no STAB moves can see the impact of the STAB damage boost or how effective is coverage. This is also related to Target concept, as against this pokemon, you can either be an Defensive check (but you can't offensively check it), or an offensive check (but you can't defensively check it).
Questions To Be Answered:
1. Does the STAB damage boost make offensive Pokémon viable?
2. Why do some Pokemon choose not use STAB moves?
3. Is it necessary to run STAB moves?
4. What is the importance of coverage moves, and why do some pokemon not run coverage moves?
5. How would defensive pokemons to resist the attacks of this CAP differ from the offensive Pokemon that would super-effectively attack the CAP?
6. Would this CAP have to have high stats in order to be effective?
7. Should the CAP have an offensive or defensive typing?
Explanation - There are Pokemons that don't use STAB attacks even if it grants the x1.5 damage multiplier, either because they have no reliable STAB move (Kyurem-Black having no physical ice type moves and Kartanas best steel STAB being Smart Strike), or they have no reason to (Mawile-Mega has Iron head, but Dark type moves are more useful). On the other side, coverage moves are useful for any offensive Pokemon to target Pokemons that would normally wall. Pokemons such as Landorus-Therian and Garchomp uses normally useless moves such as Fly or Fire Fang to activate 1 one shot powerful coverage move. I would want to know whether STAB moves are necessary for an offensive Pokemon, and if the x1.5 multiplier for a STAB is always beneficial. We should have an offensive typing that could work as a defensive typing as well, unlike Mawile or Kartana which have a not very offensive type of steel.
 
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