CaP 24 Prevo - Part 1 - Typing Discussion

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DHR-107

Robot from the Future
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
#1

Hey all!

It is time for Jumbao to lay that egg and see what pops forth! Once again, thankyou very much to Pipotchi for the brilliant artwork above which I am probably going to use throughout this process! Bonsly and Phantump are also eagerly awaiting the arrival of their new friend!

There are only a couple of rules for the prevo process, number one of which is this is a completely flavour based project. The whole prevo process is just for fun! Some of the critters we have made in the past have been adorable but deadly! Competitive reasoning is thrown out of the window here (though you can still make arguments based on it), and all flavour based reasoning is perfectly valid. "It just makes sense" is just as much an opinion as any other.

In this thread, I would like us to discuss various different typings you would like Jumbaby to be. Here is a quick rundown of Jumbao to let us get our bearings:

Typing: Grass/Fairy
Abilities: Drought/Trace
Stats: 92 HP / 63 Atk / 97 Def / 124 SpA / 104 SpD / 96 Spe
Movepool:
HS Shore Up
HS Lucky Chant
HS Fake Out
1 Detect
1 Flower Shield
1 Tackle
1 Leafage
3 Tackle (R)
7 Leafage (R)
10 Rototiller
14 Ingrain
17 Magical Leaf
21 Wish
24 Psych Up
28 Body Slam
31 Natural Gift
35 Sunny Day
35 Flame Burst
38 Bullet Seed
42 Heavy Slam
45 Energy Ball
49 Moonblast
52 Leaf Storm
Grassy Terrain (Exeggutor)
Healing Wish (Cherrim)
Misty Terrain (Cottonee)
Smelling Salts (Cacnea)
Wood Hammer (Exeggutor)
Snore
Synthesis
Helping Hand
Block
Worry Seed
Giga Drain
Gravity
Seed Bomb
Magic Coat
Magic Room
Wonder Room
Superpower
TM 06 Toxic
TM 08 Bulk Up
TM 10 Hidden Power
TM 11 Sunny Day (R)
TM 15 Hyper Beam
TM 16 Light Screen
TM 17 Protect
TM 20 Safeguard
TM 21 Frustration
TM 22 Solar Beam
TM 27 Return
TM 30 Shadow Ball
TM 31 Brick Break
TM 32 Double Team
TM 37 Sandstorm
TM 42 Facade
TM 44 Rest
TM 45 Attract
TM 48 Round
TM 52 Focus Blast
TM 53 Energy Ball (R)
TM 64 Explosion
TM 68 Giga Impact
TM 74 Gyro Ball
TM 77 Psych Up (R)
TM 78 Bulldoze
TM 86 Grass Knot
TM 87 Swagger
TM 88 Sleep Talk
TM 90 Substitute
TM 99 Dazzling Gleam
TM 100 Confide


As we all know, Jumbao's typing, Grass/Fairy will automatically make the slate regardless of other suggestions. If there is enough support for another option, we will go a poll! You guy's have a day or two to come up with some ideas!
 
#2
I feel that the most realistic type (if we were not to use Grass/Fairy) is just Grass. I cannot see a reasonable way to remove the Grass typing from a tree-based Pokemon. I would say that Grass/Fighting (resorts to rowdy combat as opposed to true sumo) or Grass/Water (a baobab stores plenty of water to endure Drought conditions) could also work flavorwise, but Jumbao doesn't get Fighting moves by level up, and its best Water move is Hidden Power. If we went the latter, though, it could be added to a Pokedex entry that it's saving water for evolution, which is why it doesn't use Water moves.
 

Reiga

Mr. Snuzu himself
is an Artist
#3
I don't see why se should change the typing for the prevo here, Grass/Fairy just seems right. You could potentially make it pure Grass but I think its best to already build up Fairy from the prevo, especially since not a lot of regular mons gain Fairy on evo. Anything else like Grass/Fighting just feels tacky imo, and trying to be unique for the sake of being unique.
 

Mowtom

I'm so meta, even this acronym!
#4
I'm pretty sure most Pokemon don't change types as they evolve. I see no reason Jumbao should break from that. Grass / Fairy is the most sensible option by far imo.
 
#5
In addition to keeping Jumbao's dual type (which is completely fine by me), I'd like to throw my support for single-type Grass. My reasoning is based on a single narrative:
When it comes to desert-based big plants, there currently is one Pokémon line that fits here: The Cacturne line. In a similar way to baobabs (which make the basis for Jumbao), the saguaro cacti (that resemble Cacturne the most) have been used as a water source by natives. And as Cacturne gains Dark typing on evolution, it might make a very solid rivalry with Jumbao - even more so that many of the Dex submissions as well as movepool suggest Jumbao helping travellers, Cacturne feels hostile to them from design, typing and Dex entries. This way, we might as well pronounce the Cacturne - Jumbao rivalry by having the same typing structure throughout the evolutionary line, going from simple Grass to Grass/"Benevolent" vs Grass/"Malevolent".
 

Drew

formerly LitsYaBoi1337
is a Contributor to Smogon
#6
I think that Grass/Fairy is the best possible typing for every aspect of this mon. First of all, let's talk about flavor. There are only 3 Pokemon who gain a Fairy-typing through evolution: Primarina, Sylveon, and Alolan Nineatils. I'd even personally argue Sylveon doesn't count, as Eeveelutions always gain a type in exchange for normal-type, and Eevee was designed to be completely Normal as to expand into other types. So that leaves us with 2 Gen 7 Pokemon, not really a very big pool, and only 1 of them has only 1 prevo. Obviously, it would be fine flavorwise, but I still think Grass/Fairy is best. Why? Because it fits PERFECTLY for what I think little Jumbao could be: a support mon for hail and sand. Now when i say support mon, I don't mean we're giving it Sand Force or Slush Rush, I mean that I want mini-Jumbao to fit perfectly onto hail and sand teams in LC, and the framework is already there. Starting with sand teams, their main problem is a lack of a special sweeper and Hippopotas's passiveness, and with Jumbao's well rounded stats and access to Sandstorm, we may be able to cover both weaknesses. Plus a Grass/Fairy attacker pairs well with Lileep for an interesting form of defensive Grass-spam. Now onto hail. Hail it weak because Ice is a bad type, and hail teams are often cripplingly weak to Water- and Fighting-types, and what are the best 2 typings for beating those 2 in LC? Grass and Fairy. Also as a quick note, not-so-Jumbao could even help sun, because although avoiding Drought at all costs seems to be the game plan for CAP LC (thank you so much DHR-107 ^^) Jr. Jumbao could make a great manual setter. All in all, Grass/Fairy is necessary to allow tiny Jumbao to fulfill a unique role in CAP LC, and do what Jumbao could not: HELP HAIL.
 
#8
A single prevo means Bao can't be a starter-like line, so I think I'm favouring Grass/Fairy this time around. It allows us to really tie in the more mystical parts of Jumbao's design directly to the prevo, which I like.

So kodama prevo when
 
#9
I'm personally in favor of just Grass for the prevo and then Jumbao gaining it's secondary typing after evolving. Just a normal plant before gaining all the magic.
 

Dogfish44

You can call me Jiggly
is a Forum Moderator Alumnus
#10
I'll give Pure Grass some minor support so that it's guarenteed land on the slate, owing to the fact that it feels like that it would be appropriate that the only mons to gain Fairy typing on evolution would be Sylveon, Jumbao, and Ninetales-A - obviously Sylveon is just an Eeveelution, and the other two happen to be the new weather setters of the generation.

I'm still not actually decided on if I prefer pure Grass or Grass/Fairy (And I think I am leaning towards the latter, even though this post is to support the former), but those are the only two types which could be viable in any shape or form in my eyes. Remember that we can't add any additional moves, so typings such as Grass/Water would have to explain the lack of Water moves (even Rain Dance).
 
#11
Looking at the concept for Jumbao's design(here) that was given by Pipotchi, I think Grass/Ghost would make sense. According to Pipotchi, "Around its waist is a root "shimenawa", usually hung around sacred objects like trees or rocks and wards off evil spirits that can inhabit them". Jumbao's prevo could be a tree that has been inhabited by a spirit and that is why the Shimenawa had to be put around it. Jumbao does get shadow ball, so its prevo won't be lacking STAB.
 

G-Luke

We Eat Losers
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#12
Looking at the concept for Jumbao's design(here) that was given by Pipotchi, I think Grass/Ghost would make sense. According to Pipotchi, "Around its waist is a root "shimenawa", usually hung around sacred objects like trees or rocks and wards off evil spirits that can inhabit them". Jumbao's prevo could be a tree that has been inhabited by a spirit and that is why the Shimenawa had to be put around it. Jumbao does get shadow ball, so its prevo won't be lacking STAB.
How does one flavourly explain a transition from Ghost to Fairy?
Especially when Jumbao lacks any other ghost type moves or ANY moves associated with ghosts other than Shadow Ball
 
#13
How does one flavourly explain a transition from Ghost to Fairy?
Especially when Jumbao lacks any other ghost type moves or ANY moves associated with ghosts other than Shadow Ball
The transition from ghost to fairy could be that the root placed around it purified it, removing the evil spirit. Or that the evil spirit became more of a benevolent nature spirit which would be fitting of the Fairy typing. Yeah, it doesn't fit the movepool well, but I think it does fit the flavor given for the design.
 
#14
Executor and Trevenent’s pre-evos keep their typing, as well as only having one pre-evo stage. I think we should continue the same tree-non line of reasoning.

My vote goes to keeping Grass/Fairy.
 
#15
I'm not against pure Grass, but I'm more in favour of keeping Grass/Fairy typing because Jumbao's art doesn't scream 'Fairy' and I think it would be fun to have more classically Fairy-esque features on an mini-Jumbao. It would be a good way to show off a less-obvious feature of the 'mon. And it would be adorable.
 
#16
Executor and Trevenent’s pre-evos keep their typing, as well as only having one pre-evo stage. I think we should continue the same tree-non line of reasoning.

My vote goes to keeping Grass/Fairy.
Snover also keeps its type upon evolution, Grotle and Sceptile gain a type upon (Mega) Evolution, and Exeggcute changes secondary typing upon evolution to Alolan Exeggutor. So there is no consistent rule among the tree pokemon.
 

G-Luke

We Eat Losers
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
#17
Snover also keeps its type upon evolution, Grotle and Sceptile gain a type upon (Mega) Evolution, and Exeggcute changes secondary typing upon evolution to Alolan Exeggutor. So there is no consistent rule among the tree pokemon.
Grotle and Sceptile are starters and are not modelled after specific trees. alolan formes are also a special case and doesn't discredit the theme. u also strengthened it by mentioning Snover..
 
#18
Grotle and Sceptile are starters and are not modelled after specific trees. alolan formes are also a special case and doesn't discredit the theme. u also strengthened it by mentioning Snover..
I mentioned Snover for the sake of completeness. And yes, the theme is consistent if you don't include the ones that don't fit the theme -_-
I don't really understand the "and are not modelled after specific trees" part. Only Exeggutor and Tropius are clearly based on specific trees. Not counting starters and Alolan forms seems pretty arbitrary to me. I'm not against keeping the Fairy/Grass typing, I just don't think it's fair to justify it by saying that it's a consistent rule that tree pokemon keep the same typing.
 
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snake_rattler

Pajantom's Daddy
is a Forum Moderatoris a CAP Contributor
Moderator
#19
I don't really see a reason to change the type from Grass / Fairy to anything else. Pokemon don't have to have to change types when they evolve, and I feel like we tend to forget that in the Prevo process. Keep it simple, Grass / Fairy is a cool type combination that I'd love to see in a small baobab.
 

LucarioOfLegends

Has both direction and magnitude
is a Pre-Contributor
#20
Similar argument to those above about changing types. Quite a number of tree-mons do not change type throughout their life, perhaps hinting about each tree's species (complete theory, take it as a grain of sand in a speculative beach) The most notable, and I think relatable in this case would likely be Trevenant, since it share's a lot of aspects with Jumbao and I kinda of expect it to be a solid inspiration for it. I also haven't seen any particularly strong arguments for mono-Grass, so currently my stance sticks with maintaining Grass / Fairy. A baobab tree is still a baobab tree, even if it is a little bit smaller.
 

DHR-107

Robot from the Future
is a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Pokemon Researcheris a Smogon Media Contributor
Orange Islands
#21
I'll probably look at tying this up at the 24 hour mark. Currently there are only decent arguments/support for Grass and Grass/Fairy.

I would honestly prefer sticking to what we have already, as others have said, a lot of Pokemon don't change types as they evolve.
 
#22
I think sticking with Grass/Fairy makes sense for a prevo, but so does pure Grass. Also, I always thought Jumbao looked more Grass/Fighting and so would be glad to explore that more in a prevo. I also agree that Grass/Ghost makes sense based on the design.
 
#24
I feel it's worth adding another voice to the Grass/Fairy chorus, if only to solidify it as a community consensus. I haven't seen any substantive justification for a change here, and doing something Just Because We Can often doesn't make for good CAP projects; it means that we have to graft flavour on retrospectively rather than letting it develop on its own terms.
 
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