CAP 26 - Part 4 - Primary Ability Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
As for the pivoting abilities that have been brought up, I like the ones that give us more ability to switch-in rather than the ones that encourage us from switching in and out. Levitate and Bulletproof definitely stand out as the forerunners here, and I personally prefer Levitate just because it will always be relevant whereas Bulletproof is realistically only giving us an immunity to 2-3 common attacks as compared to Chesnaught just because we are already not particularly threatened by so many of them.

Also, I want to question if bring a pivot is strictly the only direction we are going for our ability, or if that is just the first phase of the ability discussions. While moves like Doom Desire theoretically makes pivoting out into checkmates seem like the obvious interaction to abuse, it's not something that I see happening too many times per match. There are many times where you just want to be bulky enough that you can sit in for the entire duration and deliver a one-two punch on the delayed turn to punish the switch yourself rather than pivoting out, especially given how good our typing is at doing that. This has been the case for Future Sight Slowbro/Slowking, Heatran in STABmon and Dialga in BH and is especially true since the undoubtedly most optimal ability for pivoting is banned. It feels like looking specifically for abilities that benefit pivoting is theoretically limiting the roles that CAP26 can do, and shutting us out of abilities that we know definitely has worked pretty well with Doom Desire like Tinted Lens and Steelworker.

Even though I just mentioned Steelworker as one of the abilities that we have seen work, the main reason why I still don't like it is because, just like Fluffy, Filter, Solid Rock etc, it is just a basic boost to our offenses of defenses, and this makes no sense because in CAP we can literally tailor our stats to hit our damage/bulk milestones anyway, and these abilities basically means that we have realistically no ability since we would be dropping our stats to hit the same benchmarks.

Also, how does Stakeout interact with moves like Doom Desire?
Does it also work like Steelworker in that it needs CAP26 to be on the field to benefit from it, or can we switch out anytime and still have the benefits?
Depending on its interaction with switches, I can see it being a good choice to punish switches in attempts to dodge our predictable and delayed attack.
 

Jordy

is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
escarlata I want the primary ability stage to focus on pivoting because this is what was assessed in CA and seems to be the "best" route, especially with this typing.
 
As many of the other abilities have been mentioned, what about Magician? It has specific interaction with Doom Desire (ie it does not trigger), thereby allowing the mon to operate as normal if it wishes, or it can instead attempt to steal a held item while dealing damage: removing key items like Choice items, Leftovers, Assault Vest etc.

It could potentially allow for 'negative scouting' by proving the existence of a Mega Stone or Z+Move, say.

Edit: Multiscale gives this CAP more opportunities to switch in, while not giving them a reason to stick around. Toxic and Electric Immunity, with the right move or team support (say Jumbao/Heatran core with Wish) would give it longevity and additional uses.

I like the idea of Weather Setting: either using it to strip defenses from say Tyranitar, remove the offenses of Sun or Rain based mon or allow the potential for Screens to to be set if Snow Warning is used, and upping the power of Ice coverage of your team mates from Ice to Blizzard if necessary, as well as providing chip damage to break Sturdy etc.

Snow Warning is my favourite: so little in the meta interacts with Hail, and as it is already susceptible to Water and Fire, it doesn't actually massively hurt the existing threat list.

How does Lightning Rod interact with Ground Type? Although this boosts the stats, this ability gives Cap26 the ability to phaze a target relying on Electric and instead switch into their Steel Counter or risk a boosted DD. This gives CAP26 the ability more freedom to use their desired utility moves or set up the situation suggested earlier where say a Volkraken can no longer switch out to a Fairy type when a Pajantom switches in. I suggest Lightning Rod as Water Absorb may mess with our checks, but that may be something to consider if Water weakness is considered crippling.

I will throw take the opportunity to throw Support for Stat lowering abilities like Intimidate, and Gooey/Tangling Hair, however, as these are fantastic team support abilities.
 
Last edited:
As many of the other abilities have been mentioned, what about Magician? It has specific interaction with Doom Desire (ie it does not trigger), thereby allowing the mon to operate as normal if it wishes, or it can instead attempt to steal a held item while dealing damage: removing key items like Choice items, Leftovers, Assault Vest etc.

It could potentially allow for 'negative scouting' by proving the existence of a Mega Stone or Z+Move, say.
Magician seems very gimmicky at best since we have to take a turn to try and steal something and then try and set up DD. Also most megas and z moves users are obvious anyway, this negative scouting point doesn't seem very handy in the long run as most of the time people mega at the first chance they get so potentially we're just setting ourselves up to get hit. Also if the opponent knows we run magician then what's to say they switch a choice mon into us and turn 26 into dead weight. This ability doesn't really seem like it would work well with pivoting
 
Last edited:

Dogfish44

You can call me Jiggly
is a Community Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnus
As many of the other abilities have been mentioned, what about Magician? It has specific interaction with Doom Desire (ie it does not trigger), thereby allowing the mon to operate as normal if it wishes, or it can instead attempt to steal a held item while dealing damage: removing key items like Choice items, Leftovers, Assault Vest etc.


It could potentially allow for 'negative scouting' by proving the existence of a Mega Stone or Z+Move, say.
Not only is Magician a terrible gimmick that requires us to somehow use a consumable item, and that item scouting is broadly useless (Z-Moves are pretty easy to spot, Megas tend to be blindingly obvious given they come complete with an animation as they Mega Evolve...), there is a point in this post I really feel misses the point by several light years...

After all, this is a concept which revolves around using Doom Desire - we're aiming to be a pivot, who can set up checkmate situations further down the line. As such, why the devil would we want an ability which actively discourages us from using the move?
 
I like the idea of Weather Setting: either using it to strip defenses from say Tyranitar, remove the offenses of Sun or Rain based mon or allow the potential for Screens to to be set if Snow Warning is used, and upping the power of Ice coverage of your team mates from Ice to Blizzard if necessary, as well as providing chip damage to break Sturdy etc.

Snow Warning is my favourite: so little in the meta interacts with Hail, and as it is already susceptible to Water and Fire, it doesn't actually massively hurt the existing threat list.
Sorry, but I believe that weather-setting abilities are very anti-concept. Too many other Pokemon are given large boosts by weather (Swift Swim users, Chlorophyll users, Sand Rush users, etc.), so a potential CAP 26 with weather will often be relegated to a support role. While weather setters arguably make natural pivots, the nature of the support weather can provide encourages Weather CAP 26 to switch or pivot out ASAP instead of setting Doom Desire.

Even worse, at least at first blush, CAP 26's typing does not look like it encourages giving CAP 26 moves that weather supports. (In contrast, the Snow Warning user Ninetales-Alola is a decent user of Aurora Veil.) At best, we can amplify our own Fire attacks with Drought Jumbao-style, at the cost of messing with our checks and counters list (e.g. Celesteela) because the coverage can be that valuable.

I suppose there is the hilarity of forcing switches to opposing weather starters and possibly back. Tyranitar and Jumbao are notably weak to Steel and therefore Doom Desire often forces them to switch back out, while Mega Charizard Y and Pelipper both resist Steel but are weak to Stealth Rock.
 

SHSP

is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Magic Guard: While having an immunity to Spikes damage is great, especially for a Steel-type pivot, the concern that it may enable CAP 26 to function more like a wallbreaker is valid, especially because it most likely wouldn't run Doom Desire, because it wants more direct damage output. However, considering the role of most Steel-types in the current metagame, I do believe that CAP 26 would much rather use Magic Guard for its defensive than offensive capabilities. My question for this ability would be: are we confident enough to "risk" the possibility of turning CAP 26 into a more offensively geared Pokemon to unlock Magic Guard's defensive potential? Additionally, I'd like to hear as many thoughts about Magic Guard vs Levitate.
I'm tentative on Magic Guard but lean more towards agreeing with Jordy here. I see us becoming more offensive, but I'm not sure we'd give up our role entirely just because we can run Magic Guard+Life Orb. This isn't my favorite ability- I don't think it does enough for our matchups in general. Though being a hazard and status immune pivot is great, I'm not sure if it can swing enough matchups into our favor to let us be effective.

Water Absorb / Storm Drain / Dry Skin: While none of Water Absorb, Storm Drain, or Dry Skin have been received particularly well, I do see potential in them. While I realize that these abilities will allow CAP 26 to come in on more defensive Pokemon like Toxapex rather than offensive Pokemon like what was assessed in CA to be optimal, I don't think that this is bad; after all, concepts do evolve after CA. The assessment that Storm Drain is anti-concept is very fair, so it'll probably come down to Water Absorb or Dry Skin if one of these abilities were to get slated. I'd like everyone to think about whether it's okay for CAP 26 to counter Toxapex, Rotom-W, and even check Ash-Greninja. When thinking about this, you should consider the size of CAP 26's C&C list, how this'd affect how CAP 26 is played, and whether this makes CAP 26 overbearing.
I've grown to really like this trio. With a water immunity, though it seems like it doesn't do a lot at first glance, it really can be impactful. Pex becomes almost a liability, stuck setting hazards and being forced out, which is huge. Several other matchups are influenced to lesser extents- we now are at a stalemate with Rotom-Wash, have a far better matchup into all Krilowatt, and solidly handle a few less common matchups like dominating most Suicune and Tapu Fini. It's not exactly lacking in power vs our offensive set either, where Ash Gren and Volkraken will have to think twice about locking into Hydro Pump with CAP 26 around. I do agree with Water Absorb or Dry Skin being superior to Storm Drain- I would much rather have the health back from a Scald switchin than a +1, simply because I think it's much more impactful for a pivot.

Flash Fire: With being a bit more controversial, Flash Fire has been discussed a decent amount. While some people consider Flash Fire to be useless considering that Fire-types like Heatran and, albeit niche, Mega Charizard X will still overwhelm CAP 26 regardless of Flash Fire or not, others have expressed their interest in CAP 26 being able to handle other Fire-types like Volcarona and the niche Victini. Additionally, it also helps out with some Jumbao and can be very useful when trying to pivot around Choice-locked Volkraken. Flash Fire really comes down to whether people think the range that this ability covers for CAP 26 is relevant enough.
On the other hand, I'm not a fan of this ability. It just seems like it doesn't do enough to make it worthwhile, especially- as others have stated- most things that handle us with Fire also handle us with other coverage. Heatran Earth Power will do a number, Volcarona has a fair chance of boosting through us with HP Ground, and Smokomodo still obliterates us with Earthquake. We make Volkraken think about locking into Fire Blast which is solid, and we do improve vs things like Magnezone and Flame Burst Jumbao, but this seems less impactful than you'd expect.

Grassy Surge: While I have an admittedly hard time warming up to the idea of having Grassy Surge on not-Tapu Bulu, it does have some notable positives. The free Leftovers can be very useful, additionally, the fact that it neutralizes Earthquake can be very handy. However, some people have expressed concerns with the overlap between Grassy Surge and Levitate; is the free Leftovers truly enough to consider it over Levitate, which has an immunity to Ground-type attacks altogether? I'd like some more discussion on this.
I'm at odds with Grassy Surge a great deal. On one hand, it does improve matchups, notably against users of Earthquake as coverage- Kitsunoh, Mega Latios- and is a good fit for our archetype, supporting the team and able to pivot in to get the terrain up multiple times per match. On the other, does it really do enough? A lot of mons that use EQ as coverage can use other tools to get through us- Syclant's Ice stab hurts, Pajantom Shackle->Z-Shackle likely beats us- and the Ground types themselves still can muscle through us. I find it unlikely that stuff like Garchomp, Lando-T and Colossoil will struggle into us with Grassy Terrain, even with a weakened Earthquake. It's a good ability- but is it good enough at what it does?
 
Fair points on Magician: just curious as to why there was such a hullabaloo raised to Knock Off earlier in the discussions, when this move has the ability to steal useful items from a target. Also, Doom Desire is not discouraged by taking Magician. Magician might not benefit Doom Desire directly, but that is not the same as being discouraged: turning all other moves into Knock Off essentially means that an opponent is instantly into a mind game whether they want to risk losing their set supporting item, or eating a Doom Desire, or betting on CAP26 switching out. That said, I will agree that it's not really supportive of Pivoting.

The weather setting was more to do with the removal of the beneficial weather aspects for the opponent: at the expense of minor chip, thus being more relevant for HO.

It's hard not to talk about Hail being suggested without AVeil, but I will disagree that AVeil is best used by Ninetales-A, but simply that it is the best setter of it currently. If AVeil was a route that CAP26 was to take, there isn't a 4x SR resist user who can reliably switch in, and place double screens, thus encouraging further pivoting for the team with free or less risky setup situations. I"m not sure if this is getting into Polljmping though, so will not make a further comment on Hail. After all, Sand only really encourages and supports Ttar who self sets anyway, and Crucibelle+M who gets 4x'd by Earth Power, so that too can be used to suggest an opponents' positive weather removal option is one. At least it doesn't chip, unlike Hail.
 
It's hard not to talk about Hail being suggested without AVeil, but I will disagree that AVeil is best used by Ninetales-A, but simply that it is the best setter of it currently. If AVeil was a route that CAP26 was to take, there isn't a 4x SR resist user who can reliably switch in, and place double screens, thus encouraging further pivoting for the team with free or less risky setup situations. I"m not sure if this is getting into Polljmping though, so will not make a further comment on Hail. After all, Sand only really encourages and supports Ttar who self sets anyway, and Crucibelle+M who gets 4x'd by Earth Power, so that too can be used to suggest an opponents' positive weather removal option is one. At least it doesn't chip, unlike Hail.
A-veil would be anti concept for 26 if it does get it because people would run that more over DD so that's a no.
 

Jordy

is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
It's pretty clear to me that this Snow Warning discussion will lead to absolutely nothing. Please stop it.

I'd much rather have people focus on other abilities that people haven't seemed to agree on yet. You can always refer back to my post earlier for these abilities.
 

snake_rattler

Bold to assume that I won't have the last laugh...
is a Forum Moderatoris a Top CAP Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Intimidate: Intimidate seems to be received pretty well. Intimidate is a pretty generic ability that softens up physical hits for CAP 26. This is especially notable when facing Pokemon like Mega Mawile, Weavile, and certain Tyranitar sets. However, when looking further into it, I find that, despite the fact that it's a good catch-all ability, it really doesn't do that much when considering the overall metagame. I find this to become especially apparent when considering that Intimidate will not *really* save it from anything on our C&C list, it really only improves the matchup against Pokemon that CAP 26 already has a good enough matchup against.
The metagame is extremely specially focused right now, which means if CAP26 is going to be a successful pivot, it'll probably need some shoring up on the specially defensive front. Intimidate, for obvious reasons, doesn't accomplish this. It should help against Mega Tyranitar, weakening its Earthquake and Fire Punch; Mega Mawile, helping against every attack except for Brick Break and Fire Fang; Kartana (though the MU is still a little dire with Sacred Sword); and Garchomp (which can use Swords Dance relatively easily though and likely 2HKOs at -1 anyway). However, this leaves us still completely vulnerable to Tapu Lele, Mega Alakazam, Focus Blast Tornadus-T and Magearna, Aurumoth, Mega Diancie, etc. Basically, CAP26 needs to focus on alleviating some of these specially offensive threats, and I don't think Intimidate really helps in this regard.

Magic Guard: While having an immunity to Spikes damage is great, especially for a Steel-type pivot, the concern that it may enable CAP 26 to function more like a wallbreaker is valid, especially because it most likely wouldn't run Doom Desire, because it wants more direct damage output. However, considering the role of most Steel-types in the current metagame, I do believe that CAP 26 would much rather use Magic Guard for its defensive than offensive capabilities. My question for this ability would be: are we confident enough to "risk" the possibility of turning CAP 26 into a more offensively geared Pokemon to unlock Magic Guard's defensive potential? Additionally, I'd like to hear as many thoughts about Magic Guard vs Levitate.
Magic Guard would be a great catch-all ability for CAP26, and I'm pretty sure that we can avoid becoming a wallbreaker if we become slower. However, I think there's a better option for us if we want to avoid Spikes that also helps with our ability to pivot much more effectively. (Read below!)

Levitate: Similarly to Magic Guard, Levitate grants CAP 26 an immunity to Spikes. However, more notable than that, it also helps CAP 26 deal with Pokemon like Garchomp, Mega Latios, and certain Landorus-T sets, which are currently on our C&C list. Combined, this could go a long way for CAP 26 and its opportunities to switch into play to force checkmate situations. I've seen very little, if any, counter arguments to Levitate right now because it seems to be received extremely well, as such, I think it has a high chance to get slated.
Levitate didn't really have me sold for a good while, but it's starting to grow on me. With a 4x resistance to Stealth Rock, Spikes are the main way for teams to chip away at CAP26. However, Levitate alleviates this problem entirely, and it also improves CAP26's ability to switch into key metagame threats. Garchomp will be forced to rely on a Fire-type move to reliably damage CAP26, meaning its flagship Earthquake / Stone Edge / Swords Dance / Stealth Rock set cannot hit it, Earthquake Mega Tyranitar variants will be helpless (can switch to Fire Punch, but then struggles against Toxapex more), Mega Latios will have to use Ice Beam instead of Earthquake, Mega Diancie will have a rougher time without Earth Power, Choice Band Syclant will have to lock into Icicle Crash instead of Earthquake, Tangrowth will have to rely on Grass-type STAB rather than Earthquake to damage CAP26, and CM + Pain Split Magearna can't use Hidden Power Ground to get past CAP26. Assault Vest Tyranitar will have a slightly harder time having to rely on Crunch, but it should still win the 1v1 if CAP26.

Now, you might be thinking that I'm contradicting the points I made in the Intimidate section of my post, as I've just listed a few physical threats that CAP26 more reliably deals with. However, Levitate completely nulls any damage from these threats, while Intimidate at best lowers the damage by a third. That's a huge difference. There's also the fact that we ignore Spikes, Ground-type attacks from relevant special attackers (Mega Diancie, Mega Latios, and CM+ PS Magearna), and Hidden Power Ground from Jumbao and Tornadus-T (though these are falling off, admittedly).

Overall, even if it doesn't affect our Psychic-type MU that much, Levitate helps CAP26 in so many other ways that Levitate is a huge contender for me now. It takes the best of Intimidate and Magic Guard and adds more defensive utility to CAP26.

Bulletproof: Bulletproof has been received really well so far, similarly to Levitate, I believe that it has a high chance to get slated if discussion about it stays roughly the same. Bulletproof is a very notable ability for a Steel-type pivot, especially if our objective is to handle Psychic-types like Mega Alakazam, Tapu Lele, and maybe even Aurumoth. This is a plausible idea considering that CAP 26 is shaping up to be a Steel-type pivot. It also helps out against Focus Blast Magearna, which does not run Fightinium Z very often, if at all. No downsides of this ability besides All-Out Pummeling existing have been brought up, are there any other downsides that we should be wary of?
The downside of Bulletproof, aside from the existence of All-out Pummeling, is honestly opportunity cost, which can be said for most abilities here. By picking Bulletproof, we're not picking another more wide-sweeping immunity ability (or a certain other ability). However, Bulletproof is surprisingly useful. The most relevant moves it blocks for CAP26 are Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, and Shadow Ball. This list might seem pretty innocuous until you realize how common Focus Blast really is.

Mega Alakazam, Magearna, and bulky pinch-berry Aurumoth don't run All-Out Pummeling, so Focus Blast is completely blocked. Mega Alakazam's common Shadow Ball coverage is blocked also, meaning a resisted Psychic or a Knock Off is all it can use to damage CAP26. Although not all Magearna run Focus Blast, Shift Gear Magearna runs Fleur Cannon / Focus Blast / Calm Mind most often; Assault Vest Magearna rarely runs Ice Beam, opting for Fleur Cannon / Volt Switch / Focus Blast / Iron Head; and Pain Split + CM Magearna runs Fleur Cannon and one of Thunderbolt (which we are immune to) or Hidden Power Ground (which is relatively weak). Bottom-line is that Magearna cannot really touch a Steel / Ground type well if we block Focus Blast. Finally, although Aurumoth can run some other coverage than Focus Blast to move past CAP26, having Bulletproof improves Steelium Z CAP26's match up against Aurumoth heavily.

Now, there are other relevant Focus Blast users; Tapu Lele, Tornadus-T, and offensive Aurumoth. These are a little more tricky to deal with because they commonly run Fightinium Z. However, it's pretty easy to scout for Tapu Lele's All-Out Pummeling, depending on how much damage it does with another move, whether or not it actually uses Calm Mind, or if it reveals Hidden Power Fire. Once AOP has been burned, standard Tapu Lele doesn't like to deal with CAP26. Tornadus-T's All-out Pummeling is also relatively easy to deal with; it often wants to hit multiple Pokemon with All-out Pummeling, so if it burns AOP on another Pokemon, CAP26 walls Tornadus-T pretty handily, forcing it to use U-turn, giving it free Doom Desires. Offensive Aurumoth, if it runs Fightinium Z over Electricum Z, most commonly runs Psychic / Electric / Focus Blast coverage, which means once AOP is burned, CAP26 has a good match up with Aurumoth.

All in all, Bulletproof is a great ability; even if it only really deals with 5 Pokemon; Magearna, Mega Alakazam, Aurumoth, Tapu Lele, and Tornadus-T; these Pokemon are extremely relevant, and are generally walled by CAP26 once AOP is removed. I think it ranks a little lower than Levitate for me now, given that Spikes are very relevant, but the combination of Levitate and Bulletproof should be really interesting if we ever go down that route. Regardless, Bulletproof is an excellent choice for CAP26.

Water Absorb / Storm Drain / Dry Skin: While none of Water Absorb, Storm Drain, or Dry Skin have been received particularly well, I do see potential in them. While I realize that these abilities will allow CAP 26 to come in on more defensive Pokemon like Toxapex rather than offensive Pokemon like what was assessed in CA to be optimal, I don't think that this is bad; after all, concepts do evolve after CA. The assessment that Storm Drain is anti-concept is very fair, so it'll probably come down to Water Absorb or Dry Skin if one of these abilities were to get slated. I'd like everyone to think about whether it's okay for CAP 26 to counter Toxapex, Rotom-W, and even check Ash-Greninja. When thinking about this, you should consider the size of CAP 26's C&C list, how this'd affect how CAP 26 is played, and whether this makes CAP 26 overbearing.
I think Water Absorb or Dry Skin are the best choices for this ability, but it most notably helps with our Toxapex matchup - which is important because Scald can do a good bit of damage to us, even if we have good Special Tankiness. Blocking Rotom-W is annoying for it given that it's supposed to counter us, but inflicting a burn and generally not taking much damage from CAP26 should make it a decent stop. Arghonaut and Krilowatt generally don't run Water-type moves, so those shouldn't be factors for this discussion. Putting pressure on Ash-Greninja and Volkraken is nice because they Choice lock, but I'm not sure how great of a stop they are given their secondary STAB moves. It's a cool immunity, but I think we'll get a little more mileage from others like Levitate and Bulletproof.

Flash Fire: With being a bit more controversial, Flash Fire has been discussed a decent amount. While some people consider Flash Fire to be useless considering that Fire-types like Heatran and, albeit niche, Mega Charizard X will still overwhelm CAP 26 regardless of Flash Fire or not, others have expressed their interest in CAP 26 being able to handle other Fire-types like Volcarona and the niche Victini. Additionally, it also helps out with some Jumbao and can be very useful when trying to pivot around Choice-locked Volkraken. Flash Fire really comes down to whether people think the range that this ability covers for CAP 26 is relevant enough.
Flash Fire just...doesn't sound useful if you think about it. While Volkraken choice-locks, most other Fire-type users don't. Mega Charizard X can still use Earthquake for free, Volcarona can still use Hidden Power Ground, Victini (as Jordy says, is niche) can use U-turn, Heatran still has Earth Power, and Jumbao has started to run Focus Blast + Flame Burst. I think the fact that relevant Fire-types a) generally run more than one move that can damage CAP26 and b) don't choice lock as often, means that CAP26 will not get much mileage from Flash Fire.

Grassy Surge: While I have an admittedly hard time warming up to the idea of having Grassy Surge on not-Tapu Bulu, it does have some notable positives. The free Leftovers can be very useful, additionally, the fact that it neutralizes Earthquake can be very handy. However, some people have expressed concerns with the overlap between Grassy Surge and Levitate; is the free Leftovers truly enough to consider it over Levitate, which has an immunity to Ground-type attacks altogether? I'd like some more discussion on this.
Optics aside, Grassy Surge is interesting, but I don't think it's the best fit on CAP26. It's a lot like Intimidate. It really only helps our physical matchups while not improving our Special matchups at all. Garchomp, Excadrill, and Landorus-T can still boost past the terrain, Smokomodo still has Flare Blitz, and Syclant still has Choice Band Icicle Crash. Furthermore, it makes us even weaker to Grass-type attacks, meaning we have weaker matchups against Kartana, Caribolt, and Ferrothorn, which makes us even weaker to the general metagame. Although it admittedly encourages pivoting because auto-setting Grassy Terrain is a useful form of utility, it doesn't improve our stance in the metagame enough and imo puts CAP26 at a net negative in the metagame by weakening our shaky MU against Grass-types.
 

Gross Sweep

Turtle
is a Top Team Rateris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Live Chat Contributor Alumnus
RMT Leader
I don't have a lot to say, except that I pretty much find myself supporting the favorites in Levitate and Bulletproof.

Levitate allows us to better check ground types, avoid ground type coverage moves, and not take Spike damage switching around. Not a lot to add that hasn't been said multiple times already. This is a good ability that will help us make a strong CAP.

Bulletproof helps us check psychic spam, save Fight Z abusers. this will honestly help us serve as a solid steel, which will in turn allow us to fit on a good number of teams. The ability only helps against a few opposing mons, but I still see it as useful. Giving CAP 26 this added niche of really stopping psychic spam that isn't employing Fight Z Lele is extremely useful.

At this point in time I see these two as the favorites. None of the other abilities suggested have really stuck out to me as legitimate options for what I feel we should be trying to achieve with this mon. Intimidate is the only other ability with a decent amount of discussion that peaks my interest, but still I find myself not wanting to seriously consider it as the 2 abilities discussed in my post just feel a lot more useful.
 

Deck Knight

Seize Your Doom
is a Top CAP Contributoris a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
The way I see it, the core of making a pro-concept determination is what an ability incentivizes. This concept is all about incentivizing the use of Doom Desire. For that reason, here are a few abilities I don't support:

Magic Guard: Straight away, this ability incentivizes Life Orb sets heavily. There is no reason not to opt for just running Flash Cannon on a Life Orb set and directly breaking through an opponent without giving a second thought to Doom Desire.

Steelworker: For similar reasons, Steelworker works very poorly with everything except Z-Doom Desire and greatly incentivizes just running Flash Cannon. Especially with something like Choice Specs since the immediate usable power is great.

The caveat to either of these is to artificially bar Flash Cannon, but I do not like Abilities that entertain a presupposition of limiting common sense expected options on the basis it is needed to avoid overshadowing the concept. We should make better choices at the Ability stage to ensure our concept does not need artificial help later.

Levitate: While you can point to the Spikes immunity as a positive for pivoting, a great number of the passive Pokemon we want to come to force the pinch situation are Pokemon like Arghonaut that want the free Spikes setup. If CAP itself is immune to them, they have less incentive to try stacking those hazards in the first place. We selected a typing already highly resistant to residual damage, I don't think we need to push the envelope here.

Grassy Surge: Too much backfire potential here for me, as grounded opponents will also be healed and it makes Grass types infinitely more solid checks or counters. Too much cost for too little gain.

Some Abilities I do like:

Bulletproof has already been mentioned. The only thing I want to add in regards to All-Out Pummeling is you can account for their item slot (Fightinium-Z) with your own in Chople Berry. Once AOP is exhausted, they can't touch you with Focus Blast from there on out. While neutral AOP is still going to do significant damage as a 190 power neutral move, the vast majority of the time it is unSTABBed and unboosted. Bulletproof absolutely moves the needle on all the Focus Blast reliant Pressure List Pokemon and straight up allows us to wall MegaZam.

Competitive: I don't count myself in the camp that sees SpA boosts as anti-concept. It might be "anti-pivot," but remember one thing: Doom Desire cares about the user's stats when it hits. If you Doom Desire, switch back out, and switch back into a predicted Defog or Lando-T pivot, you hit the opponent with +2 Doom Desire. The existence of Competitive would also dissuade an opponent from Defogging in front of you. Unlike the abilities I panned above, this is a situational boost with less impact on item choice because the boost is situational and not guaranteed with an item effect immediately.

Storm Drain / Dry Skin / Water Absorb: I personally think based on the above logic Storm Drain is the best, but passive healing in Rain is great (though our Jumbao matchup gets worse) and healing on a Scald switchin is too.

Heatproof: You could call this the "weaker" cousin of Thick Fat or Flash Fire, but crucially Heatproof also halves burn damage, meaning Leftovers will still passively recover and Assault Vest sets will feel lest strain. It still improves the matchup against Heatran and Volcarona (Volkraken and Smokomodo less so).
 

Jordy

is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
Levitate: While you can point to the Spikes immunity as a positive for pivoting, a great number of the passive Pokemon we want to come to force the pinch situation are Pokemon like Arghonaut that want the free Spikes setup. If CAP itself is immune to them, they have less incentive to try stacking those hazards in the first place. We selected a typing already highly resistant to residual damage, I don't think we need to push the envelope here.
I just wanted to make a response to this so that a misinformed/poorly worded point doesn't take over the thread.

I don't know how you got to this conclusion, but it is wrong. Being immune to Spikes does not make Spikes irrelevant to teams with CAP 26. It's that simple, Spikes is that powerful and it will not be knocked out of the meta that easily. While you can say that CAP 26 as it is shaping up + Tornadus-T is a plausible core, which I admit, it is, I'm one of the main people that have said this. The assessment that Spikes won't be relevant at all against teams with this core is wrong. There's still 4 other Pokemon that will be getting worn down to Spikes. Besides, CAP 26 + Tornadus-T isn't even that great at keeping off Spikes because both Greninja's straight up beat the core. Also, I actually do think that Spikes should be stressed as much as it is because it truly is a metagame defining force that cannot be simply neglected, especially for a Steel-type pivot.

e: I also find it interesting how you say that Levitate is anti-concept in that it doesn't encourage using Doom Desire, when there's really no reason to believe this and you also give no argumentation for this cause. If anything, it enables clicking Doom Desire more often because CAP 26 will get more switch-in opportunities.
 
Last edited:

Jordy

is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
I promised people to make a post today and have some time right now, so here it is! Please note that I will be leaving out abilities that have gotten minimal discussion since my previous post.

Bulletproof: The discussion that Bulletproof has had has remained positive. It seems to be agreed on that it's good to enable CAP 26 to switch into Focus Blast, giving it a much better chance at checking Psychic-types. As snake_rattler has pointed out, All-Out Pummeling does not significantly impact this ability. It can also make for some niche situations where CAP 26 will be able to switch into Shadow Ball and Gyro Ball for example. Opportunity cost was brought up as a possible concern and most people that have posted in favor of it seem to agree that the existing opportunity cost absolutely is worth it. If there is anyone that disagrees with this assessment, I'd like to hear about it!

Levitate: Similarly to Bulletproof, discussion on Levitate has generally remained positive. The ability creates opportunities where CAP 26 will be able to switch into Pokemon like Garchomp and Mega Latios, ultimately resulting in more opportunities for CAP 26 to switch in. Another added benefit of Levitate that has been brought up is that it provides CAP 26 with an immunity to Spikes, which is really valuable for a Steel-type pivot.

Magic Guard: Magic Guard provides CAP 26 with an immunity to all hazards and also neuters Scald burns. However, the general discussion still seems to be afraid of wallbreaker sets with Life Orb. Personally, I'm with SHSP and agree that CAP 26 is more likely to make use of Magic Guard's defensive potential than its offensive potential. Besides, even if it were to use it for its offensive potential, this is not necessarily bad. Additionally, if pushing out Doom Desire is really that big of a concern, Flash Cannon can be left off. I'm really unsure about Magic Guard myself and most people are too, I think that this ability mandates more discussion than that it has already had. Once again, I'd like to ask: are we confident enough to "risk" wallbreaker sets to unlock Magic Guard's defensive potential. Additionally, I'd like to ask if potential wallbreaking sets really are that bad for CAP 26.

Water Absorb / Storm Drain / Dry Skin: The general discussion on these abilities seem to agree that Water Absorb and Dry Skin are preferable to Storm Drain because of their ability to restore a bit of CAP 26's health. While the ability to pressure Toxapex is the main appeal to this ability, it also allows CAP 26 to create a stalemate with Rotom-W and creates interesting situations with Choice-locked Water-types like Volkraken and Ash-Greninja. This doesn't seem like a lot, but these abilities can affect a lot of the things that CAP 26 can do in practice, because these Pokemon are pretty common. I'd like to add Tapu Fini to this list, which has been experimented with a lot more lately. However, Tapu Fini can potentially cripple CAP 26 with Nature's Madness and Knock Off. The poor range that this ability reliably covers when compared to others is my main concern as of right now, so I'd really like to hear more thoughts on this.

Flash Fire: Most people seem to agree that Flash Fire is a poor option. It doesn't really improve CAP 26's matchup against the best Fire-type, Heatran, and only really covers the niche Fire-types that you won't see a lot. I too believe that Flash Fire is not that good of an option because of this.

Grassy Surge: People have brought up the fact that Grassy Surge can really backfire on CAP 26, and I'm inclined to agree with that. In addition, while it provides quite a few things, it doesn't stand out at doing those things, like Levitate does for example. The general discussion right now seems to agree that Grassy Surge won't provide CAP 26 with much, and I do believe that this is the case.

I will also use this post as an opportunity to free Regenerator discussion. To give some direction, I'd like to ask whether we really think Regenerator is beneficial to CAP 26, or would we rather see abilities that directly alter CAP 26's opportunities to switch in?
 
Last edited:
Apologies for not posting sooner, I wasn’t sure what to add, nor did I know how to articulate my reasonings. However, now that discussion is narrowing down, I think I finally have some breathing room.

Bulletproof: I’m with the consensus on this one. Walking over MegaZam and being able to safely come into Magearna among others is extremely powerful for us, and certainly goes a long way to improve our switches. I think opportunity cost is minimal, as recovery could always be achieved with an Iapapa or Wiki berry. This is actually my favorite ability of the bunch, although for the life of me I cannot explain why. It just has an “it” factor. What it does with Focus Blast users certainly is the key though.

Magic Guard: Even if we aren’t convinced it would slap a Life Orb on, I cannot say I am confident enough to risk it. Wallbreaker sets on their own are totally fine, but Magic Guard goes one step further in risking they become the main priority, which is the opposite of what we want.

Regenerator: The big one. I feel it simply doesn’t do enough to help us out. It’s usually way too broad to use, but this time it has the opposite problem; it doesn’t do enough to benefit CAP26. As of now, we have a total of five switch-ins and who knows how many Pokémon in Pressures. I fear that if we do nothing to address that in abilities, we will be straining ourselves to make it work. Regenerator is nowhere near the worst ability we could pick (that honor goes to Snow Warning Lol), but I feel that it will be at least somewhat counterproductive towards our goals.
 
I'd like to ask whether we really think Regenerator is beneficial to CAP 26
Regenerator is a neutral option at worst, but the more I think about it the more I think we can take it or leave it. Really, this is the option we take for the sake of avoiding fussing over 4MSS with recovery moves. There are appealing switch-in focused options on the table that are actively working to both help 26's role and take on 26's pressure list, which is more than Regen can do for us.
 
I will also use this post as an opportunity to free Regenerator discussion. To give some direction, I'd like to ask whether we really think Regenerator is beneficial to CAP 26, or would we rather see abilities that directly alter CAP 26's switch-in opportunities?
Let's be realistic: Regenerator is a very strong option for CAP 26. Restoring a third of your HP on a switch is incredible boon for any Pokemon that wants to Pivot in and out of battle. It's arguably the best generic ability for a Pivot period. That said, Regenerator is not the best call for CAP 26, as I feel that there are other options that fit the concept better. Steel/Ground does have several issues on coming into the field to set up Doom Desire, between Water, Ground, Fighting and Fire-typed attacks being some of the more common coverage options in the game and are all types that CAP 26 is weak to. (Notably: Earthquake and Focus Blast) Regenerator does not directly help it come in on anything, rather it's more passive in that it allows CAP 26 to heal off some of the damage it takes while it's on the field. An issue with that is the fact that if we are switching in to click Doom Desire, we're taking two turns to effectively do nothing that affects the current state of battle and can leave CAP 26 open to being hit both turns, potentially reducing or negating the effectiveness of the Regenerator heals. So to me having more opportunities to come in and set up checkmate situations with Doom Desire seems like the better goal to go for as it gives us more situations where CAP 26 can safely come in to set up Doom Desire. So immunity abilities like Bulletproof/Levitate/Water Absorb seem more appealing to me, since they allow CAP 26 more chances to come in and possibly pressure 'mons out, which would potentially mean less incoming damage and more survivability overall.
 

Pyritie

TAMAGO
is an Artist
Regarding the water immunity abilities, I think Storm Drain is anti-concept for the same reason that Download is, because special attack boosts would encourage CAP to stay in and use its boosts instead of pivot.
 
I get to say my piece on Regenerator now? Sweet. Here goes:

In short, I think it’s a bad idea, and possibly even anti-concept.

People, Ground/Steel is an absolutely stellar defensive typing. Coupling the best pivot ability with this typing seems pretty broken, as even a modest amount of bulk will ensure purely defensive sets will be viable. I seriously doubt we’d run with Tangrowth, Slowbro or Toxapex like girth, but even Assault Vest Tornadus can be a chore to take out. But unlike a Tornadus’ Flying typing, Ground/Steel has TWO immunities, SEVEN resists, is immune to Toxic, Sandstorm chip and boasts a 4x resist to SR. There’s no way people won’t take advantage of that kind of defensive utility, and if that’s the case, it’s less likely they will invest in special attack, and by virtue, use Doom Desire.

Regenerator in and of itself does not help CAP switch in to Mega Alakazam, Focus Blast Tapu Lele, Landorus or Garchomp. If it can’t avoid being OHKOed or 2HKOed by these guys, it isn’t going to be able to fire off a Doom Desire. And it definitely isn’t going to switch into Water or Fire types to fire off DD, because those types resist Steel anyway (which is why I think Flash Fire and the water immunity abilities are a waste, but that’s not the point of this post).

I think if our goal is to make an effective DD user rather than a defensive mon, it’s more important for CAP26 to be able to get in and use DD comfortably against certain threats, rather than encourage it to pivot out. To that end, I think Levitate / Bulletproof are superior choices.
 
Last edited:
I get to say my piece on Regenerator now? Sweet. Here goes:

In short, I think it’s a bad idea, and possibly even anti-concept.

People, Ground/Steel is an absolutely stellar defensive typing. Coupling the best pivot ability with this typing seems pretty broken, as even a modest amount of bulk will ensure purely defensive sets will be viable. I seriously doubt we’d run with Tangrowth, Slowbro or Toxapex like girth, but even Assault Vest Tornadus can be a chore to take out. But unlike a Tornadus’ Flying typing, Ground/Steel has TWO immunities, SEVEN resists, is immune to Toxic, Sandstorm chip and boasts a 4x resist to SR. There’s no way people won’t take advantage of that kind of defensive utility, and if that’s the case, it’s less likely they will invest in special attack, and by virtue, use Doom Desire.

Regenerator in and of itself does not help CAP switch in to Mega Alakazam, Focus Blast Tapu Lele, Landorus or Garchomp. If it can’t avoid being OHKOed or 2HKOed by these guys, it isn’t going to be able to fire off a Doom Desire. And it definitely isn’t going to switch into Water or Fire types to fire off DD, because those types resist Steel anyway (which is why I think Flash Fire and the water immunity abilities are a waste, but that’s not the point of this post).

I think if our goal is to make an effective DD user rather than a defensive mon, it’s more important for CAP26 to be able to get in and use DD comfortably against certain threats, rather than encourage it to pivot out. To that end, I think Levitate / Bulletproof are superior choices.
For all it’s defensive merits Steel/Ground still has some very notable weaknesses so it’s not what I would call a “stellar defensive typing”. Plus Slowking uses Future Sight and Regenerator so there ain’t much reason why CAP26 wouldn’t not use it unless we mess up down the line.

I agree that Regenerator ain’t exactly what CAP26 needs most, but it definitely ain’t anywhere near anti-concept.
 
Guess I'll throw a couple cents in on Regenerator

The primary thing that Regen helps us alleviate is the potentially large momentum sink we may have using a recovery move when we want to be clicking DD. I'm not particularly convinced that would be the case, at this stage I don't see CAP26 being so heavily pressured when it does get in that it's only going to be able to click one of DD/recover before being forced out. Of course another added benefit is the freeing up of a moveslot, but as things are shaping up now we're leaning more into the utility kit than the coverage options. I won't deny that's useful but at this juncture I'm unsure if that extra slot is actually as valuable as it sounds.

The biggest problem with Regen is it does nothing to alleviate our typing's ability to switch in to numerous very threatening types. As a pivot I believe our number one concern should be to have a consistent method of being able to come in and throw out a DD. Regen's healing factor can't make up for the lack of switch in opportunity cost that we currently have I feel.

I don't dislike Regen if we do decide that's the path to take, but as it stands now I feel Bulletproof/Levitate are our premier options for creating a solid, consistent switch in opportunity.

(Still unsure about the water immunity abilities, water isn't a particularly spammed type and to me it feels like it'd be purely just for washtom and pex which I'm not big on)
 
Magic Guard: I want to talk about this ability first, because I'm not convinced that it has enough "Defensive Potential" to be worth unlocking compared to other options. Let's analyze it by what it blocks and by how common that is. I will be utilizing the CAP 1760 move usage statistics from last month to make this determination. I recognize this isn't a perfect determination since the ladder has few active players and it only takes one or two "edgy"/"Bad" players to skew the movepool stats (and because it seems to take into account weird nonsense ya'll practiced with "UU CAP" and "LC CAP"), but we'll do it anyways and I'll do my best to filter out unranked, irrelevant 'mons. So what does Magic Guard block defensively, and how common is it in the metagame?

Spikes Stacking: This is the first thing people mention for Magic Guard, and for good reason - it seems very common in the meta: Users of it were...
  • Arghonaut: A+ Rank, on our C&C list, carries Spikes 74.7% of the time.
  • Ferrothorn: A+ Rank, on our C&C list, carries Spikes 22.56% of the time.
  • Syclant: A- Rank, mutual pressure relationship, carries Spikes only 6.6% of the time.
  • Ash-Greninja: A ranked, on the C&C list, carried Spikes 19.3% of the time.
  • Protean Greninja: A+ Ranked, on the C&C list, carries Spikes 70.2% of the time.
  • Skarmory: Unranked but appears in usage stats. Currently a PITA for us to manage if it makes a resurgence. Carried Spikes 53.7% of the time.
Those are a lot of top 'mons. They aren't things we want to come in on, necessarily, but we need to account for Spikes being a big part of the game currently. There are three different A+ ranked 'mons that stack Spikes, two of whom do so almost always.

Burn Damage: I had thought Will-o-Wisp was dead, but it's actually surprisingly common (given that any appearance beyond one would surprise me)
  • Necturna: A+ Ranked, ??? relationship, ran WoW 18.6%.
  • Rotom-W: A- Ranked, on the C&C list, ran WoW 73.2% of the time.
  • Sableye-Mega: B+ Ranked, neutral relationship, ran WoW 39% of the time.
  • Mew: B- Ranked, neutral relationship, ran WoW 51.2% of the time.
Burn damage also comes in the form of Scald. We don't necessarily want to be switching willy-nilly into Scalds, and the dream is to pivot in, set DD, and get out before water types can make it rain on us, but we're probably going to take some hits. So, let's look at Scald. For point of comparison I'll also include how often that particular 'mon ran a different water move, since we're also talking about straight water immunity as an option.
  • Krilowat: A- ranked, ??? relationship, ran Scald 42% of the time and Surf 35% of the time.
  • Volkraken: A+ ranked, on the C&C list, ran Scald 28.5% of the time and Hydro Pump 74.9% of the time.
  • Toxapex: A- ranked, on the C&C list, ran Scald 99% of the time to the exclusion of any other water STAB.
  • Pelipper: B+ Ranked, pressure relationship, ran Scald 66% of the time and Hydro Pump 21% of the time.
  • Suicune: B ranked, shaky check, ran Scald 100% of the time.
  • Slowking: B ranked, ran Scald 42% of the time.
  • Gastrodon: B- ranked, pressure relationship, ran Scald 100% of the time.
  • Tapu Fini: B- ranked, ran Scald 21% of the time and ran Surf 64% of the time.
So clearly, most Burns are going to come from Scalds. Note again we don't love this; we're still probably eating 15-45% of our health every time we come into a Scald which is awful. I didn't want to analyze Burns from Fire because most 'mons run Fire Blast and Flamethrower and Fire Fang/Punch with a 10% chance to burn which falls into hax. If you're curious, 90% of Pyroaks and 29.7% of Heatrans ran Lava Plume.

Leech Seed: Leech Seed feels like the last relevant chip damage thing, defensively, to look at. Yes, MG makes us immune to hail damage - but despite what low ladder might tell you, hail isn't super viable or common competitively. Yes, MG makes us immune to Stealth Rock - but we're already 4x resistant to Rock and have reasonable matchups against many of its premier setters, so that isn't a huge selling point. MG stops us from taking damage to Iron Barbs and Rough Skin...but our primary expected attacks don't make contact, so that seems unlikely to be terribly relevant. And we're already immune to Toxic and Sandstorm thanks to our typing, so we don't get anything there. Leech Seed neutralization is the least exciting neutralization factor because even if we take no damage they still heal. Still, it's sure something.


  • Necturna: A+, carried Leech Seed just 7% of the time.
  • Celesteela: A+ Ranked, carried Leech Seed 97% of the time.
  • Ferrothorn: A+ Ranked, on the C&C list, carried Leech Seed 77% of the time.
  • Pyroak: C ranked, carried Leech Seed 70% of the time.
  • Venusaur-Mega: C ranked, carried Leech Seed 83% of the time.
A tale of two cities - we've got a bunch of niche and barely viable 'mons, but also two members of our C&C list that we'd take a little less damage from. Note, however, that Celesteela still threatens us with Flamethrower and Ferro can still win the race against us with the healing provided by Leech Seed and its Grass STAB. Pyroak and Necturna are also quite dangerous, so really only Venusaur is potentially in trouble.

Magic Conclusions: Here's the deal - look at this list, and realize that we still take a chunk from Scald even if we laugh off the burn. Now, ask yourself this...

- If you feel Spikes immunity is the most important thing for CAP 26, do you think the burn and seed resistance is worth giving up our ability to ignore the many, many Earthquakes and Earth Powers in the meta? Because Levitate gives us that same sweet spike immunity goodness while also ignoring ground attacks outright. 11/38 of the mons at A- rank or better currently run ground attacks.

- Same token on burn, but moreso - if you are worried about Burns, it makes WAY more sense to go with a water immunity (likely with Water Absorb or Dry Skin) so that we straight up ignore Scald and ALSO ignore all the Hydro Pumps and Surfs and Water Shurikens out there - in addition to being able to actually somewhat come in on a lot of the eight Scald mons I listed, we will be able to come in on Greninja, Ash-Greninja, and Rotom-W (and that's just other A- or better water 'mons).

- And that's the real conclusion - I think for CAP to succeed, it needs lots of opportunities to come in and given that our defensive typing is a bit softer than we'd like, we absolutely need to invest in at least one ability that gives us more free switch-in opportunities. Magic Guard helps us pivot a little, but rarely will we actually want to switch-in: being Spikes immune doesn't help if we take a billion from the attacks themselves, switching into Leech Seed is still rarely a good idea for us given its common user's ability to punish us while resisting our STABs, switching repeatedly into Scalds and Lava Plumes is unacceptably damaging with out water weakness, and Will-o-Wisp is too uncommon to be a serious consideration.

I'm with Jordy that I don't necessarily think the offensive power of Magic Guard is anticoncept, but I do think it is a poor fit for what CAP 26 needs.
 
Last edited:
I really like the ability Bulletproof. It's not terribly overpowered like Regenerator or the like, but being able to prevent Focus Blast alone makes it definitely worth considering. This is compounded by the fact that Fighting is such a common offensive typing in the metagame that having that Niche makes it much easier to switch in or play through a Pokemon that may be problematic or even disastrous to CAP 26.

I personally am a huge fan of Competitive as well. I think it opens a door for high level play, because DD naturally opens the door to thinking ahead and reading your opponent well, which I think this ability lends itself to.

Finally, I'm throwing my last one in for Cloud Nine. I think that Cloud Nine is an extremely underrated ability. While it is somewhat Niche, it completely negates things like Rain, which would be pretty disastrous for CAP 26 as well as both Sand and Sun, both typings that are super effective against CAP 26. I think it would be niche, but has the potential to be incredibly powerful.
 

Jordy

is a Tutoris a member of the Site Staffis a Smogon Social Media Contributoris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Smogon Media Contributor
Moderator
Consider this your 48 hour warning. If the discussion somehow dies off, I'll extend some time. The TLT and SHSP will bring a slate to you soon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top