For alternate fire/grass ideas, I like the one someone suggested for a lion.
-
Check out the relaunch of our general collection, with classic designs and new ones by our very own Pissog!
-
The moderators of this forum can be found in the CAP forum staff directory.
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
CAP 3 CAP 3 - Part 1 (Main type)
- Thread starter Gothic Togekiss
- Start date
- Status
I'm taking a leap of faith; but i'm proposing a Breloom counter In the panda pokemon:
Typing: Fire/grass
Stat distribution: Balanced
Stat Bias: Defences
Physical/Special Bias: Balanced
BS Spread: 110/90/110/90/110/40
BST: 550
Ability: Insomnia
User cannot be slept.
(A flaming panda wouldn't be going to sleep anytime soon; if you were on fire, would you?)
Ability: Flash fire
Powered up by Fire moves
(FF pwns.)
Notable Movepool(Attacking):
Flamethrower, Flare blitz, Energy ball, Needle Arm (Seed bomb?), Grass knot, (FFang/IFang/TFang?)
Notable movepool(Defending/recovery/Stat boosting):
Synthesis, (Slack off?) Leech seed, WoW, Substitute, Toxic, (Stockpile?)
Notable Movepool(Support):
Reflect, Light screen, (wish?)
Breeding groups: Plant/Ground
Egg moves(Plant): Leech Seed, Synthesis (Jumpluff Family)
Egg moves(Ground): WoW, Flare Blitz(Rapidash Family) (Stockpile?) Mawlie
This is a bit too early for such propersitions, but i've got wayyyyy to much spare time. This can also fufill mixed wall shit.
Typing: Fire/grass
Stat distribution: Balanced
Stat Bias: Defences
Physical/Special Bias: Balanced
BS Spread: 110/90/110/90/110/40
BST: 550
Ability: Insomnia
User cannot be slept.
(A flaming panda wouldn't be going to sleep anytime soon; if you were on fire, would you?)
Ability: Flash fire
Powered up by Fire moves
(FF pwns.)
Notable Movepool(Attacking):
Flamethrower, Flare blitz, Energy ball, Needle Arm (Seed bomb?), Grass knot, (FFang/IFang/TFang?)
Notable movepool(Defending/recovery/Stat boosting):
Synthesis, (Slack off?) Leech seed, WoW, Substitute, Toxic, (Stockpile?)
Notable Movepool(Support):
Reflect, Light screen, (wish?)
Breeding groups: Plant/Ground
Egg moves(Plant): Leech Seed, Synthesis (Jumpluff Family)
Egg moves(Ground): WoW, Flare Blitz(Rapidash Family) (Stockpile?) Mawlie
This is a bit too early for such propersitions, but i've got wayyyyy to much spare time. This can also fufill mixed wall shit.
That would be kickass! A fire/grass lion, kind a like a griffin since that is a hybrid as well!
Responding to Aki:
In my personal opinion, I think the offensive base stats should be focused to physical or special. Mixed sweepers are much too favored, and with this typing I do not think it needs to split to be effective. Also, I think the defenses are a bit too high for a offensively typed fire Pokemon?
EDIT: I do not think this Pokemon should touch the powerful stat boosting moves such as Swords Dance and Tail Glow. Rather, give it a nice offensive stat and that would be all it really needs. (There are millions of ways to pick off designated walls, especially special walls.)
In my personal opinion, I think the offensive base stats should be focused to physical or special. Mixed sweepers are much too favored, and with this typing I do not think it needs to split to be effective. Also, I think the defenses are a bit too high for a offensively typed fire Pokemon?
EDIT: I do not think this Pokemon should touch the powerful stat boosting moves such as Swords Dance and Tail Glow. Rather, give it a nice offensive stat and that would be all it really needs. (There are millions of ways to pick off designated walls, especially special walls.)
As I said before, I agree it needs to focus on one or the other. Which doesn't matter as much, but more walls have physical defense than special.
The defenses aren't that high, considering it only has 40 speed. With speed that low, you NEED defenses.
Fixed it up regarding Egg moves and supposed movepool.
This thing can also fufill the role of absolutly destroying bulky waters/grounds/steels, from both sides of the Physical/Special spectrum, but you've gotta sacrifice those nice defences to do so. YOu've also gotta choose between Leech seed and recovery or a more powerful physical move and Wow; or Stockpile. Adding in Slack off and Seed Bomb as possible options.
EDIT: Regarding speed; We need more bulkiness. I can see this fufilling all the roles asked by everyone (SubSeed, Bulky ground/water/steel counter) So i see no need for speed =p
EDIT2: No stat boosters on the attacking side; I see this more as a bulky shit. Attacking stat boosts would make this OverPowered.
This thing can also fufill the role of absolutly destroying bulky waters/grounds/steels, from both sides of the Physical/Special spectrum, but you've gotta sacrifice those nice defences to do so. YOu've also gotta choose between Leech seed and recovery or a more powerful physical move and Wow; or Stockpile. Adding in Slack off and Seed Bomb as possible options.
EDIT: Regarding speed; We need more bulkiness. I can see this fufilling all the roles asked by everyone (SubSeed, Bulky ground/water/steel counter) So i see no need for speed =p
EDIT2: No stat boosters on the attacking side; I see this more as a bulky shit. Attacking stat boosts would make this OverPowered.
Well, I was just going off of Aki's spread. I don't think a Panda would necessarily be that slow, but if it ended up slow it would need higher defenses. Plus, even with 252 Speed EVs, it wouldn't outspeed much with base 40 speed.
Normally I wouldn't care about seeing a sample of the movepool this early, but it'll matter once we get to Style and Build.
Normally I wouldn't care about seeing a sample of the movepool this early, but it'll matter once we get to Style and Build.
I want physical. Mainly 'cause the Fire attacks going around nowadays are all special.
I also kind of oppose the wallbreaking idea. Do we really need more wall-breakers running around?
Fire's large number of resists could actually be well-complemented by Grass for a pretty stable typing defensively. C'mon.
I also kind of oppose the wallbreaking idea. Do we really need more wall-breakers running around?
Fire's large number of resists could actually be well-complemented by Grass for a pretty stable typing defensively. C'mon.
Guys, we can talk about stat spreads and movepools later on in the project . Right now, we should focus our attention on the main and yes, I'm aware that Fire will most likely win this but I like to let this poll go on a little bit longer.
Why YOU Should Pick Electric/Grass
Type Advantages/Disadvantages:
Weaknesses: 2x Fire, 2x Poison, 2x Bug, 2x Ice
Resistances: 4x Electric, 2x Water, 2x Grass, 2x Steel
Neutralities offered by this typing, yet not to mono typing: Ground, Flying
Notice how Ground is neutral thanks to Grass? Yeah, that’s pretty impressive. Overall, this typing doesn’t have a whole lot of weaknesses common to the metagame. Of course, you are Heracross weak, but so are a lot of things (Fire/Grass, for instance). 2x resistance to Surf is pretty good, and so is a 4x to Thunderbolt. Overall, you’re not weak to much.
How it will Fare in the Metagame
You’re going to be hitting a lot of things, and hard. Not only that, this typing is a reliable counter to a lot of other things. Swampert can’t touch you unless it uses Avalanche, in which case you’ll hit it’s weakness. Gyarados is made of neutral attacks, baring the occasional Ice Fang. Hippowdon, Bronzong, and Gengar leads are also left without a weakness to play off of. With the physical properties of Grass (Seed Bomb, Power Whip, Leaf Blade, any will do), Blissey won’t be walling you, and the special properties of Electric means Gyarados can’t wall you, or his bulky Water friends. Salamance is a problem, but a nice HP Ice can fix that, not to mention how easy it is to come in on a neutral/NVE attack.
Tactics
Subseeding: And I’m sure this is what everyone thinks of when they think Grass. Yes, this pokemon would have the possibility of Leech Seed. With everything this guy would be able to switch in on, it would be so easy to set it up too. You’re guaranteed to get at least some health back, regardless of how many turns you stay in. You also force a switch.
Physical Prowess: Let me list some of the attacks common to the Grass and Electric types: Thunder, Thunderbolt, Thunder Wave, Thunderpunch, Charge Beam, Volt Tackle, Zap Cannon, Energy Ball, Grass Knot, Leaf Blade, Leaf Storm, Leech Seed, Sleep Powder, Petal Dance, Power Whip, Seed Bomb, Synthesis, and Wood Hammer. Know what they have in common? They’re either really good on a stall set, or have over 70 BP. With whatever movepool this thing finally ends up having, you’re going to be hitting hard and efficiently no matter what set you use.
Potential as a Pokemon
Let’s take a look at what Grass and Electric pokemon usually bring to the table in terms of stats. From Grass we get a lot of speed, sometimes a stamina (the defenses region), and usually a lot of attacking power in one stat or another. From Electric, we also get speed, and a lot of power. What happens when you combine the two? You get a fast, strong pokemon. Considering that this generation is practically built around stalling or speed, you’ll be playing right up there with the big boys (and kicking their butts, incoincidentally).
My Own Personal Opinion
This seems like a really cool idea to me. It’s true that a lot of types hit through your defenses at neutral (the same couldn’t be said of Revenankh), but you’ve got some resistances to common move types, and weaknesses to a very exclusive group of pokemon (the Ice and the Fire types). We’ve already established that there aren’t many Fire pokemon seen competitively, and unlike other Grasses, you’ve got a second type to deal with them. For a stall set, you have access to the two best stalling moves in Thunder Wave and Leech Seed. Overall, I’m thinking Grass/Electric is a pretty nice option at the moment.
Vote for it.
Sorry this isn't as long as FSS's was.
I'm thinking support, especially with Porcupine being a possibility and Spikes there. Leech Seed, Light Screen, Reflect, like Karrot said, are all possibilities.
As for the stats, I would really support a more defensive type, possibly able to shrug off a few hits and sacrifice offensive power for this ability.
That's just me though.
As for the stats, I would really support a more defensive type, possibly able to shrug off a few hits and sacrifice offensive power for this ability.
That's just me though.
Why YOU Should Pick Fire/Grass
Type Advantages/Disadvantages:
Weaknesses: 2x Rock, 2x Poison, 2x Flying,
Resistances: 4x Grass, 2x Electric, 2x Steel
Neutralities offered by this typing, yet not to mono typing: Water, Fire, Ice, Ground, Bug
Weak to SR, and the other 2 weaknesses are rarely seen and not gamebreaking. The Neutralities are the most groundbreaking thing IMO, but this thing can also counter SpecsShay (!!!) Better than heatran.
How it will Fare in the Metagame
Using the base stat spread given above, this thing will fare quite well in the metagame. Neutral to both of Syclant's STABs, As well as Earth power and Fighting. It it also quite bulky with 110/110/110 Defences, and as such can be used as a viable Alternative to Cresselia with a bit more attacking prowess (90/90 is decent).
Tactics
Subseeding: SubSeed FTW. Performs better at this role than Cooper's typing due to it can take out the Grasses that resist Leech Seed. It cannot come in as well; but when it's in, it's IN.
Breloom Counter: With Insomnia, it can come in on a spore, and potentially survive a few Focus punches if breloom decides to Sub.
Mixed Wall: Another Alternative to Cresselia. I need one of these on ALL of my teams, and with 110/110/110 it can do that to great effect. It will not take cresselia's spot, Seeing as cress has 110/120/130 and levitate, but it can perform SubSeeding.
Bronzong Counter: Gyro ball is NVE, and shit all BP, and EQ coming off Bronzong's attack isnt' gonna hurt. It can also open up the way for a Mamo/Weavile sweep.
Heatran counter: Takes fire attacks like a charm, Takes NVM damage from Earth Power and Hidden powers. If we give it EQ, it can do this even better.
Bulky Steel/Water/Ground Counter: For all the reasons stated in the above posts.
More: I'm too lazy atm to think of them, but there are wayyy more roles than this.
Potential as a Pokemon
Traditional Grass is slow and bulky, and the traditional fire is Fast and has good attacking stats. This takes both into consideration, while focusing on the defenses that can really open up this typing's potential.
My Own Personal Opinion
I made it, vote nao. Do i need any other reason? Oh wait, i do.
I was initially biased against Fire, but when i saw that it could potentially counter Breloom i was all for it. This thing is so versatile. Even if we gave it sweeper spreads, it still has 2 awesome stabs which can get those Bulky waters/Grounds/Steel's outta the way for a Mamo/Weavile sweep (I'm looking at you Swampert >=( ).
Concept art:
(Yes it is a joke)
This means we are literarily making a Pokemon that is going to be countered by a Pokemon we already made....
Just wanted to point that out :]
Hmm, when thinking about it, I could see a Fire/Grass Panda being the invert of Water/Ground Swampert.
Replace the support and attacks capabilities of Ground with those of Grass.
Replace the attack and versatility of Water with those of Fire.
In fact, his spread could end up being similar, with better abilities, but his typing would make up for the differences there.
Replace the support and attacks capabilities of Ground with those of Grass.
Replace the attack and versatility of Water with those of Fire.
In fact, his spread could end up being similar, with better abilities, but his typing would make up for the differences there.
We shouldn't, we should go with Electric/Dark. Much better
Which is exactly what i've done, except better defences, lower offences, better attacking typing and slower.
I prefer a spread of:
HP - 100
Atk - 90
Def - 95
SpAtk - 95
SpDef - 95
Speed - 60
This yields the same BST as Swampert (535), yields better defenses in lieu of attack, still allows 101 subs, and has the speed to still compete with the likes of Swampert, Tyranitar, and the such. When the BST spread thread comes around, I'll do a more extensive spread that gets into more exact numbers and such, but this works for now in explaining why the Fiery Panda should be voted for.
And anything can be anything. Heck, there are dog-like Pokemon for Dark, Water, Fire, Electric, and possibly others that I can't think of atm.
HP - 100
Atk - 90
Def - 95
SpAtk - 95
SpDef - 95
Speed - 60
This yields the same BST as Swampert (535), yields better defenses in lieu of attack, still allows 101 subs, and has the speed to still compete with the likes of Swampert, Tyranitar, and the such. When the BST spread thread comes around, I'll do a more extensive spread that gets into more exact numbers and such, but this works for now in explaining why the Fiery Panda should be voted for.
And anything can be anything. Heck, there are dog-like Pokemon for Dark, Water, Fire, Electric, and possibly others that I can't think of atm.
Art can be decided on later; but a panda just screams GRASS! At me.
I gave reasons ._. And then again, not everything has to make sense. Why DOES doduo have fly?
I might be biased, but i still like the idea of 110/90/110/90/110/40. It can do Mixed wall, AND counter Swampy. I don't like the idea of the lower defences because it dosen't share Swampert's Resistances. I'd be interested in what you came up for with a movepool for that spread.
Where would you possibly get Insomnia from. Not to mention that you can't take a Focus Punch if you take the defenses of a Grass pokemon and combine them with those of a Fire type.
And yes, pandas would be Normal. Although....
I gave reasons ._. And then again, not everything has to make sense. Why DOES doduo have fly?
I might be biased, but i still like the idea of 110/90/110/90/110/40. It can do Mixed wall, AND counter Swampy. I don't like the idea of the lower defences because it dosen't share Swampert's Resistances. I'd be interested in what you came up for with a movepool for that spread.
- Status