CAP 30 - Framework Submissions

Status
Not open for further replies.
Name: Pseudo-legendary Pokémon

Description: A CAP that has a BST of 600, 1,250,000 experience at level 100, and is the final stage of a three-stage evolutionary line.

Restrictions:
  • Must have a base stat total of 600
  • Must have a Slow leveling rate
  • Must be the final stage of a three-stage evolutionary line.
Explanation: Each new region introduced in the main-series Pokemon games has brought with it at least one pseudo-legendary, the final stage of a powerful three-stage lineage of Pokemon that has a BST of exactly 600 and a Slow leveling rate. From Dragonite to Metagross and beyond, pseudo-legendaries are some of the most popular and iconic Pokemon in the franchise. It would be a great honor for the CAP community to leave a similar legacy behind, and all it takes is one straightforward restriction to the competitive process.
 
Name: CAP that enable itself or it's team to excel in hail.

Description: A Pokémon that has a new powerful move or ability that only works in hail, and who is either a powerhouse of a Pokémon to build around, or its supportive effect helps the entire team.

Explanation: Hail has always been the underdog of the four weather types, so much so that in generation 5, which is well known for its "weather wars", it's practically unused. This is due to how hard it is to build a good team for compared to other options, whith only 1 type being immune and benefitting from its effects, Ice. And Ice itself is known for being a bad type, being weak to the very common Fire and Fighting types and Stealth Rocks.

I'm suggesting adding a Pokémon who's capable of making Hail a viable choice to use.

We can either make a powerful attacker that has a new boosting move that is more powerful in Hail, like Growth is for Sun, a new ability that boosts it in hail, or even an ability that has a negative effect like Slow Start or Truant that is removed during hail.

Or we can give it a supportive role that can help its teammates under hail, like a new Hazard with a Leach Seed effect that only is effect in hail, has a new ability that works like Magic Bounce and Regenerator under hail, or is just a more viable user of Aurora Veil.

--Due to The Crusade reasoning below, and the fact that it is very similar to other post as pointed out later, I had changed this submission. Original post can be found here:
Name: Pair of OU CAP with the same Uber restricted gimmick.

Description: A Pokémon pair usable in OU, but with a forme, signature item, or such that's restricted to Uber.

Explanation: Having a single restriction for 2 Pokémon without banning the Pokémon themselves would be an interesting competitive and flavor design, while also giving both OU and Uber new tools to play with.
In generation 3 & 4 the Lati twins signature item, the Soul Dew, was banned giving a 1.5 physical/special attack boost to two really good Pokémon. Single spices examples in later generations introduce Pokémon like Kyurem and Zygarde, and powerful Mega evolutions like Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Gangar, who has the power to go head-to-head with Uber Pokémon (mostly) yet happily exists in lower tiers.

(I originally was going to say box cover pair for OU and Uber, since I didn't want the new mons unusable in the main OU tier, yet not underpowered for box cover mons. But I generalized it since box cover Pokémon has been mentioned twice here already.)
 
Last edited:
Name: Gigantamax Move CAP

Description: This CAP will have access to one Gigantamax move in its movepool. It will be able to use it in battle without Gigantamaxing. The move will be rebalanced if necessary to make the CAP viable and not ban worthy in our current meta.

Explantion: I think there are a lot of players that would like to play with Dynamax/Gigantamax in a balanced form in the meta. It’s a really interesting mechanic but it’s also straight up uncompetitive (at least in singles) where the dmax boost is very hard to handle, without playing perfectly around it.
This Framework seeks to give access to at least part of this generation (banned) gimmick, by allowing only one Mon access to one of the very interesting moves that gmax forms can use.
These moves are already very powerful just by base power but also carry additional effects that can make them very interesting to use.
To not unleash an entirely unbalanced move on the meta, I think alterations to the moves power, pp or effect should be allowed.
Otherwise I think it will be very interesting to see which of these powerful moves we would chose and how it would shape a mon balanced around it.

Name: Fight for your right to vote CAP

Description: Instead of voting as a community, only a small number of participants will gain the chance to select one aspect of the CAP per competitive stage from a community made slate, through winning a CAP SS tournament.

Explanation: The idea is to play around with what community based voting can be and to bring a more competitive aspect into the creation of our CAPs (as its name implies).
Instead of giving everyone the right to vote in a modern democratic process, this framework will return to the archaic rule of the toughest and give the opportunity to cast a vote to only a a few or even just a single player per competitive stage.
This right to vote will be achieved through winning a tournament, where anyone can register to compete for the spot at the top.
This will be the only change to the usual process though.
The competitive aspects like typing, Ability, stats, moves etc will still be discussed by the community lead by a TLT and made into a regular slate by intelligent community consensus determined by the TLT.

I imagine that the registration for the tour opens concurrently to each competitive stage of the process and runs until the slate is finished.

As an example the ability stage would run like this:
The Community discusses the ability according to the necessities of the chosen concept = Signups for the Tournament for the ability stage open and run during that time > The TLT chooses a slate > The tournament is held and the winner is allowed to chose one of the slated abilities > the next stage commences

As for the tournament mode I think a ladder tour alike to a suspect test, where participants create a registered alt and play ladder games would be best to handle the amount of registrations.
I imagine the Runtime between 24 and 48 hours to give everyone time to play but also keep it short enough.
I think it might be cool to add a best of top x play off, where the top x ladder players play each other in a small scale tour format (maybe something like the roomtours) to ensure at least a small amount of high quality games for the top players.

But all of the specifics will be open to be determined by the community.
 
Last edited:
Name: F.E.A.R. Evolved.

Description: A pokemon that can use F.E.A.R. to competitively viable effect and/or in unexpected ways.

Restrictions:
  • Must at least be able to learn the move Endeavor.
  • Must have the ability Sturdy and/or be able to hold a Focus Sash.
  • Must know at least one priority move.
Explanation: F.E.A.R. is generally a last-resort strategy used in competitive battling since the DPP meta days, normally usable only once per battle. A "F.E.A.R. Pokémon" is a Pokémon compatible with a certain moveset capable of defeating a full-HP opponent at virtually any level (most notably level 100) while it itself is only at level 1 or 2, the reason for this strategy's bragging rights.

F.E.A.R. generally stands for:
  • Focus Sash
  • Endeavor
  • (Quick) Attack
  • Ratatta (Rattata are not the only Pokémon capable of this; multiple Pokémon can fit this role.)
That being said, F.E.A.R. hasn't always been perfect, given that Ghost types, indirect damage, and a simple knowledge of what your pokemon is up to has held F.E.A.R. back from being fully viable for quite some time among other things.

The goal here, is for CAP 30 to at least differentiate itself in how it employs F.E.A.R. while also being competitively viable in other aspects.

Questions to be answered:
  • What new can be achieved with F.E.A.R.?
  • How can we compensate for F.E.A.R.'s shortcomings?
 
Name - No Weaknesses CAP

Description - This CAP will have an ability that makes it doesn't have weaknesses, like an Electric type with Levitate.


Explanation -

Eeleektross is the only pokemon that doesn't have any weaknesses, and I'd love to expand that. This CAP will have an ability that grants it an immunity, but because of the typing, it makes it so that the CAP doesn't have any weaknesses. An example could be a Bug/Steel type with flash fire (although that makes the CAP have too many resistances), a Water/Ground type with Sap Sipper, an Electric type with Levitate, and a Poison/Dark type with levitate.

There's one problem. For a Bug/Steel type with flash fire makes the CAP has 8 resistances and 8 neutral hits. So what if the CAP can be a frail, fast attacker that has few defensive qualities. But for the other typings, almost anything works. In gen 7, Eeleektross left no mark in the higher tiers, so the goal here is to make a viable user of this trait either defensively or offensively.

There's no question that this CAP is gonna be hard to wallbreak. The only options that the other Pokemon can do to break this CAP are neutral stab attacks. And of course, crippling it with status, hazards, weathers and more. This makes the Bug/Steel option harder to deal with, because of toxic and sandstorm immunity, while having a neutral stealth rock.

I've only talked about the Bug/Steel option, so how about the others? In my opinion, the Bug/Steel option is the hardest one to deal with. For the other options, I don't see a potential OPness around them.

(NOTE: I judge them only by the number of resistances and neutral hits they have.)
Questions to be answered:
- Which typing is the best for this CAP?
- If it is a Bug/Steel with flash fire, what can we do to make it more balanced?
- How can another pokemon break this CAP with neutral hits?
 
Name: Curse You!

Description: A viable Ghost-type Curse user.
Restrictions: The CAP must be Ghost-type, have Curse in its movepool, and be able to use Curse effectively.

Explanation: Curse is quite an interesting move. It changes its effect based on whether the user is Ghost-type. Curse has seen use on non-Ghost pokemon, because it's a fairly standard buffing move. However, when the user is a Ghost-type, Curse instead damages the user for 1/2 of its maximum health and causes the target to take damage equal to 1/4 of its max HP at the end of each turn. Despite being a very interesting move, this has basically never seen use for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it's not worth the user losing half their health just to inflict a volatile status on the opponent that can easily be removed by switching out. Secondly, none of the Ghost-types with Curse are the kind of pokemon that would want to use it, even if it was a worthwhile move. However, Ghost-type Curse could be deadly with the right user, which is why it would be a very interesting framework for a CAP.
 
Name: Heavy Duty Boots Ability CAP

Description: A CAP pokemon with an ability that is a clone of heavy duty boots

Restrictions:
  • Has to have at least one of its abilities be a clone of heavy duty boots
Explanation: Ever since the introduction of hazards the metagame has changed Pokemon have completely lost viability or had to have team members to stop stealth rocks from getting up/removing them, toxic spikes allowing every Pokemon on your team to be poisoned with the click of a single move. Then gen 8 came around and added in the heavy duty boots allowing Pokemon to relieve themselves from the threat of hazards at the cost of their item slot. I think CAP 30 getting heavy duty boots as an ability so it can also hold an item would be an interesting concept, would the CAP fill in a more defensive role, or does it use its ability to hold a choice band and sweep?

Questions to be Answered:
  • How does a pokemon that has heavy duty boots as an ability with the power to still hold another item effect the metagame
 

Zephyri

oh, i'm in a field of dandelions
is a Top Artist
Name: Augmented Lower-tier Pokemon.

Description: We pick a lower-tier Pokemon, evaluate its "niche", figure out why it doesn't work in CAP, and "fix" it accordingly. This will not have any effect on the art stages; the result would not be a regional variant or an alternate form. However, to keep the integrity of "fixing" a lower tier mon rather than designing a whole new one, two of the four major aspects (these are, typing, ability, stats, and movepool) need to be kept exactly the same between the lowertier mon and the CAP creation (this last statement has huge implications on the TLT system so id really like to discuss this before finalizing it; for now, think of the statement as a consideration of the idea).

Explanation: I've always been a fan of using lower tier/underused Pokemon in the CAP/OU setting; a lot of the time they can do some really weird and interesting things that other "viable" Pokemon struggle to replicate (example: zydog negates corv as a ground resist which is cool when corv and other flying types are growing to be staple ground resists in the metagame alongside mons like tang falling out of favor). Taking these weird niches and pushing them to a viable setting feels like a super cool idea that allows us to understand more about the lines between viable and niche and utter poopoo dogshit.

In terms of specifics within the process, we'd have a stage at the beginning where we slate lowertier mons to work with and poll them, and then we'd go through every stage normally with each slate having a "keep the typing/stats/movepool/abilities the same" option. After each stage we'd have a mini-concept assessment to re-evaluate the direction the CAP would ideally take. We'd basically do this until we get two completely original stages.

The implication wrt the TLT is that you're going to have certain stages that'll be straight up skipped which isnt particularly great when the tlt member would be pre-emptively setting aside and investing time into the project. I'm honestly not sure how to fix that and i'd love feedback regarding it.
 
Last edited:

spoo

this is the hard drive
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributor
Moderator
Name: In-battle form change ability

Description: A CAP that makes use of one of the 12 current in-battle form changing abilities

Explanation: There have been a number of "form difference" frameworks submitted so far but none specifically targeting in-game abilities. This framework also doesn't allow for a brand-new custom ability, except for potentially reskinning an already existing ability because of flavor or to get around coding issues. The 12 in-game abilities (in a hide tag at the bottom for reference) obviously are not all equally desirable, but still allow for significant enough choice and depth to work with, and I would argue that (almost) all potential small-scale custom changes to existing abilities aren't significant or necessary enough to the project's success to allow. In-battle form changes are fascinating on the right Pokemon and are historically some of the most interesting Pokemon to use within their respective tiers, so this framework would really let us get the most out of these abilities and explore something that CAP has only ever done for Crucibelle.

As far as other logistics, stat changes between forms are a bit tricky to work out, but I imagine we would remain close to the precedent set by the holder of each respective ability. For example, if Stance Change is chosen we would just be swapping offensive and defensive stats as with Aegislash, and with Power Construct you'd probably still double the HP and allow for minor changes in other areas, but I doubt we would directly mimic the stat changes that take place with stuff like Battle Bond, Shields Down, or Schooling, in which case the difference between forms would be more up to the community. I imagine the ability could either be picked before concept subs and concepts would be based around utilizing the ability, or they'd go after concepts and the ability stage would go first in the process, where we'd then be choosing the ability that best fits the winning concept. I don't have a particular preference but it's still a consideration that would need to be made if this framework were to be selected.

Battle Bond
Disguise
Flower Gift
Forecast
Gulp Missile
Hunger Switch
Ice Face
Power Construct
Schooling
Shields Down
Stance Change
Zen Mode
 
Last edited:
If I may, I'd like to respond to some of the submittals from the last twenty-four hours.

Name: Pair of OU CAP with the same Uber restricted gimmick.

Description: A Pokémon pair usable in OU, but with a forme, signature item, or such that's restricted to Uber.

Explanation: Having a single restriction for 2 Pokémon without banning the Pokémon themselves would be an interesting competitive and flavor design, while also giving both OU and Uber new tools to play with.
In generation 3 & 4 the Lati twins signature item, the Soul Dew, was banned giving a 1.5 physical/special attack boost to two really good Pokémon. Single spices examples in later generations introduce Pokémon like Kyurem and Zygarde, and powerful Mega evolutions like Mega Kangaskhan and Mega Gangar, who has the power to go head-to-head with Uber Pokémon (mostly) yet happily exists in lower tiers.

(I originally was going to say box cover pair for OU and Uber, since I didn't want the new mons unusable in the main OU tier, yet not underpowered for box cover mons. But I generalized it since box cover Pokémon has been mentioned twice here already.)
This is an interesting suggestion, but designing content for Ubers play specifically intending for it not to see the light of day is contrary to what we actually do here. Remember that CAP is founded upon OU. There is no such thing as CAP Ubers (at least currently).

Your concept invites us to develop an item that will never be used in CAP or an entire form change that will never be used in CAP—which begs the question: what part of this project is actually meant for CAP? To use your example, Pokémon A minus Mega Pokémon A equals... Pokémon A. The same holds if we decide it should have a super-exclusive item that it's simply not allowed to use in standard play. I have misgivings about this concept because it does not give us a profile for what "Pokémon A" should actually be—because practically that's all the CAP tier would be left to work with.


Name: Fight for your right to vote CAP

Description: Instead of voting as a community, only a small number of participants will gain the chance to select one aspect of the CAP per competitive stage from a community made slate, through winning a CAP SS tournament.

Explanation: The idea is to play around with what community based voting can be and to bring a more competitive aspect into the creation of our CAPs (as its name implies).
Instead of giving everyone the right to vote in a modern democratic process, this framework will return to the archaic rule of the toughest and give the opportunity to cast a vote to only a a few or even just a single player per competitive stage.
This right to vote will be achieved through winning a tournament, where anyone can register to compete for the spot at the top.
This will be the only change to the usual process though.
The competitive aspects like typing, Ability, stats, moves etc will still be discussed by the community lead by a TLT and made into a regular slate by intelligent community consensus determined by the TLT.

I imagine that the registration for the tour opens concurrently to each competitive stage of the process and runs until the slate is finished.

As an example the ability stage would run like this:
The Community discusses the ability according to the necessities of the chosen concept = Signups for the Tournament for the ability stage open and run during that time > The TLT chooses a slate > The tournament is held and the winner is allowed to chose one of the slated abilities > the next stage commences

As for the tournament mode I think a ladder tour alike to a suspect test, where participants create a registered alt and play ladder games would be best to handle the amount of registrations.
I imagine the Runtime between 24 and 48 hours to give everyone time to play but also keep it short enough.
I think it might be cool to add a best of top x play off, where the top x ladder players play each other in a small scale tour format (maybe something like the roomtours) to ensure at least a small amount of high quality games for the top players.

But all of the specifics will be open to be determined by the community.
Of all the concepts presented thus far, I am leeriest about this one. CAP is already seen as a highfalutin, inaccessible club by a significant portion of guests on PS, and this concept plays right into that image. Deliberately disenfranchising everyone unprepared to christen an army of alts and grind the ladder for hours at a time is a move that restricts newcomers from participating and concentrates power in the hands of the current snake draft crowd. While I can recognize that this concept carefully leaves discussion and slating untouched, it still means most contributors are left to sit on their thumbs while the TLT and tournament elite do everything.

Am I nuts for thinking this would be unhealthy?


Name: Heavy Duty Boots Ability CAP

Description: A CAP pokemon with an ability that is a clone of heavy duty boots

Restrictions:
  • Has to have at least one of its abilities be a clone of heavy duty boots
Explanation: Ever since the introduction of hazards the metagame has changed Pokemon have completely lost viability or had to have team members to stop stealth rocks from getting up/removing them, toxic spikes allowing every Pokemon on your team to be poisoned with the click of a single move. Then gen 8 came around and added in the heavy duty boots allowing Pokemon to relieve themselves from the threat of hazards at the cost of their item slot. I think CAP 30 getting heavy duty boots as an ability so it can also hold an item would be an interesting concept, would the CAP fill in a more defensive role, or does it use its ability to hold a choice band and sweep?

Questions to be Answered:
  • How does a pokemon that has heavy duty boots as an ability with the power to still hold another item effect the metagame
This... is Magic Guard. You are talking about Magic Guard. Magic Guard, which has already seen extensive use in CAP and been the subject of a mega post in every primary ability discussion since CAP21 (at least), Chromera notwithstanding. The only hazard that Magic Guard does not cover is Sticky Web, which goes unmentioned here.

If there is a solid reason why we should develop an ability that negates all hazards, including Sticky Web, I am all for hearing it. Otherwise, I feel like this concept more than any other aspires to reinvent the wheel. Syclant, CAP01, received a custom ability to negate Stealth Rock. With all respect, I have difficulty seeing what new insights we can glean from this concept that we haven't laid bare in thirteen or so years of dancing around entry hazards like this.
 
Last edited:

Wulfanator

Clefable's wish came true!
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey all! I had originally set out to respond to each framework submitted after the first 24 hours of the thread being open but there have been some minor setbacks. I have a majority of the first day submissions written up, but I apologize if I did not quite get to yours yet. I am just running down submissions as they were posted: however, I will be grouping similar frameworks together as needed. I will be using spoiler tags to mitigate the size this post will occupy.

Very straight forward in its proposal, a Normal-type framework would force us to build with a typing that we would naturally avoid in most other projects. The way it reads currently appears to favor a more offensive approach. Whether or not this was intentional, I think the framework could benefit from a slight change of wording to appear more neutral. I think regardless of direction, this mon would need a greater power budget and need to have a straight-forward role for teams comparable to mons like Mega-Lopunny or Blissey.
This will cover Genie/Deoxys Forms, Gender Differences, Giratina-style Forms, Counterparts CAP, and Two-Face.

Okay, so I have grouped all 5 of these frameworks as they end up playing around the same ideas. These frameworks fall into one of two categories: same and different species. In the case of the Genies, Giratina, and Indeedee, you are only able to use a single form on any given team because of species clause. (i.e. cannot have Thunderous-Incarnate and Thunderous-Therian simultaneously.) As for Gardevoir/Gallade, Nidoking/Nidoqueen, and Sawk/Throh, they are different species so you could use both on the same team if you wanted to. Beyond that, the differences between these frameworks seem so minor and usually only change which stages are identical versus similar. Comparing the categories, I personally find the idea of a mon limited by species clause more novel since we have yet to explore this in any project. I think I will inevitably have to pick a single framework from this group since slating two very similar concepts risks killing both options in the poll.
I think there will be a group of people that view this project in passing as just a roundabout way of creating an eviolite framework. To those people, I would say this framework has more freedom than what is visible at a glance. Yes, the easiest path would be taking a Porygon-2/Porygon-Z route where the NFE takes on the defensive role using eviolite and the evolution takes on an offensive role: however, we do have the option to flip those roles and have the NFE be the offensive one. While more difficult, it would be the more unique route to pursue. Also, the inclusion of Scyther/Scizor as an example in the submission lets us consider the possibilities of what this framework could produce that is not just “the obvious eviolite answer.”
I will start by saying this framework could probably benefit from being renamed. The way it reads currently has led me and others to assume that this form change is similar to Meloetta’s mechanic. As stated in the framework, Meloetta does NOT count. This is an ability-based form change that is triggered by a move. I do think this framework has some potential as written, but I also think this framework could benefit from just being a more general “in-battle form change” framework. This would allow Meloetta, Aegislash, Morpiko, and any other in-battle form change to be options. Going back to the as written framework, we would need to iron out whether this ability would track like Aegislash and reset every time the mon is switched out or if it would track like Eiscue and return to battle in the same form it left. No matter what, this framework will more than likely require a custom element since I do believe anything that currently exists is not worth exploring.

Edit: I just noticed Spoo jumped in with an in-battle form change too.
This will cover Legendary Duo and Cover Legend CAP.

I think these frameworks risk being detrimental to the metagame. I do not have faith in the community to navigate this type of project with the finesse it requires let alone twice. We have struggled in the past with power balance, especially during Jumbao’s, Equilibra’s, and Astrolotl’s projects. The last thing we need is to greenlight an excess amount of power (more than the example projects I listed) and not be able to responsibly build with it. I think there are only a few routes we could take that avoid an absurd final product and getting users onboard with these reasonable routes will potentially be a difficult task. I am willing to reconsider my stance, but I know for a fact a duo is beyond our capabilities as a community.
Oh, how I am torn over this framework. I consider this the most meta-focused framework posted as of right now (1am GMT-6), and I am SO interested in what this type of project could yield. I had honestly forgotten this mechanic existed since it is locked behind a max move. The problem here is that I do not know if this is even a legal framework. I will be inquiring with the mods about this as I can see both an argument for and against it. This could drastically alter our metagame and raise the level of entry for new users. Given that the project was designed to be parallel to OU, would a new entry hazard destabilize the ease of transitioning to our metagame and hurt our project as a result?
This seems fine, and I remember this being a popular option last framework. I do not have much to add about this project. To the dismay of many, I would recommend dropping the requirement for prime number stats. Naganadel breaks the prime stat rule with its speed, and I think it would allow for greater diversity when adhering to the BSR limits come stats stage. Most stat submissions that make slate follow a similar stat distribution, so I would not be surprised if submissions look nearly identical if users must select from the same handful of numbers. I will also mention that this framework did not stipulate the prime stats when it was last submitted for CAP 25 and placed 2nd to starters in the final poll and 1st in earlier polling.
I see that this was edited after I started writing last night. I do not have the time to fully rewrite about this, so I apologize. Is the restriction regarding base stats saying they will have the exact same spread or identical BST?
I guess I am struggling to fully comprehend what it is this framework aims to do. You outline a Silvally/Arceus-like approach, but then address movepool and ability which make me think that you want this to end up as a Rotom-like pokemon. Would this need a custom ability to replicate the functionality of Arceus? Also, would we be aiming to make forms for each type or would we try to narrow the scope of this project so we do not create unnecessary bloat the way the unused Silvally forms do?
I was anticipating seeing this again. I think the novelty of this idea has diminished with the introduction of CAP buffs. I know there is slightly more we could do here compared to a standard buff process since more fundamental elements of a CAP could be altered. A few of the mods are concerned with potential issues this could spark, mainly with art and permissions to redesign. Also, I would be worried about replicating A-Muk and just outclassing the original mon we select. Most of my commentary is reflected in the submission anyway.
I appreciate the simplicity of this framework. While a very powerful option, I believe the community has better intuition when it would come to balancing protean/libero compared to the power granted from a legendary framework. I do think the questions posed at the end of this framework are underwhelming. The most important element would be how are we effectively preserving checks/counters? If we disregard prioritizing strong counterplay, we run into the problems seen with both Greninja and Cinderace.
Why is it that “A knocked krill is a dead krill” rings out in my head? I have no major gripes with this framework. I think we risk balancing this mon around its boosting item too much and it becomes underwhelming without it. It is the same argument that dissuades us from selecting magic guard each project it is recommended (i.e. life orb dependency). Provided we manage to avoid that problem, this could be a promising framework.
I get to avoid the backlash that comes with creating slates? Sign me up! But in all seriousness, I am not opposed to this framework. I like the idea of having to MacGyver a solution from a random slate of tools. Also, I think it would be refreshing to have a stronger emphasis on debating between options versus trying to submit winning options.
This is potentially very problematic. It reintroduces the same issues brought up when multi-attack was submitted for CAP 29’s concept. I think we would have to limit this framework to the Electric/Ice example shared in the post. It would need to pick an -ate ability to access one of its stabs, but it cannot use both stabs simultaneously. The issues are still there in that example, but at least it is more manageable.
I have a feeling this is just going to end up as route 1 bird. I am unconvinced there would be major support to go for the other 2 routes proposed here. With the low BST and the bad typing limitations, rodents and bugs have failed to break through into OU the way birds have. If we could just focus on the low BST instead of the combination with type, I think this would instantly be an exciting challenge for the competitive side of the project but still provide the flavor aspect I know people want with a framework. I do believe low BST is a legal concept on its own too.
I am going to say this illegal. The OP disallows large-scale custom elements which this is doing. I also think this would be a nightmare to implement since there would be so many combinations leadership would have to entertain. I think we risk creating something incredibly unbalanced since the only Pokémon we have as reference for this framework has one useless situational ability as part of the combination.

As a closing remark, I have noticed most frameworks have pushed for a flavor-focused idea. I would like to see more ideas that push the structure of the project similar to Random Slate and Fight For Your Right as well as frameworks that introduce meta-relevant ideas and mechanics like Steelsurge. This will help create an adequately diverse slate for the poll.
 
Last edited:
Name: Runner-Up CAP

Description: Two CAPs are created, the first of which follows a regular CAP process. The second of which will at some point branch off of the first CAP by using the runner-up option of one, or multiple competitive polls. After that the second CAP will continue to be created as a second regular CAP process but still following the same concept.

Explanation: As an onlooker to many CAP projects, I sometimes find myself wondering how a given CAP would have turned out differently if a few votes swung in a different direction. A project such as this would allow us to take a glimpse into that alternate universe.

Ideally a separate framework assessment would proceed to determine when the second CAP would split off of the first by taking the runner up of the poll(s) (eg at the secondary ability stage; at the stats stage; at both typing and primary ability), as it would allow the community to determine which would give us most insight into the project process.

I think it will also be very interesting to see just how different the two pokemon may end up being, while ultimately being created from the exact same concept.
 
Last edited:
Name: Runner-Up CAP

Description: Two CAPs are created, one of which has the winning option from each competitive poll, the other of which has the runner-up option from each competitive poll.

Explanation: As an onlooker to many CAP projects, I sometimes find myself wondering how a given CAP would have turned out differently if a few votes swung in a different direction. A project such as this would allow us to take a glimpse into that alternate universe.

Taking the runner-up for each competitive option should still achieve a result that resembles and works towards the chosen concept and has a lot of opportunity to show us how the voting process works. Is it possible to create a CAP that better fulfills a concept with only second choices?

I think it will also be very interesting to see just how different the two pokemon may end up being, while ultimately being created from the exact same concept.
I thought of this very idea for the very same reason, but I came to a single conclusion: it wouldn’t be cohesive. There are “defining steps” where the processes really divides in two, and the parts afterwards don’t really stay cohesive.

For example, the abilities you see with one typing may be almost incompatible with another typing. Same goes for moves and abilities.
 
Name: Runner-Up CAP

Description: Two CAPs are created, one of which has the winning option from each competitive poll, the other of which has the runner-up option from each competitive poll.

Explanation: As an onlooker to many CAP projects, I sometimes find myself wondering how a given CAP would have turned out differently if a few votes swung in a different direction. A project such as this would allow us to take a glimpse into that alternate universe.

Taking the runner-up for each competitive option should still achieve a result that resembles and works towards the chosen concept and has a lot of opportunity to show us how the voting process works. Is it possible to create a CAP that better fulfills a concept with only second choices?

I think it will also be very interesting to see just how different the two pokemon may end up being, while ultimately being created from the exact same concept.
I really like this idea. I have to agree with krazyguy though, that after a few stages the divergence of what “is” and “could have been” is getting very wide. I think that it’s feasible if restricted to the first competitive stages - definitely typing and ability and maybe even stats. As long as we can rebalance these decisions in the later stages it might give interesting results.
I definitely don’t think it’s feasible to take this stage set up to moves entirely,
 
Name: Freeze-Dry Clone

Description: This CAP has a custom move that is super effective against one type that would otherwise resist it.

Explanation: Freeze-Dry has an interesting, and so far unique, mechanic: it is super effective against Water, even though it is an Ice type move and Water normally resists Ice. This CAP would apply that same mechanic to a different pair of types; for example, we could have a Grass attack that is super effective against Steel, or a Fire attack that is super effective against Dragon, or any of dozens of other possibilities.

Questions to be Answered:
  • Which types would benefit most from a move of this kind?
  • How closely should we follow the precedent set by Freeze-Dry? Does our custom move need to have 70 power, 100% accuracy, and a 10% chance of a secondary effect?
  • If the custom move has relatively low base power, would CAP30 choose to use it over a stronger move of the same type (for example, Freeze-Dry vs Ice Beam)? Does the answer to this question depend on the type of the custom move and the type against which its effectiveness is altered?
 
Name: Novel Immunity

Description: This CAP has a custom ability that grants immunity to a type that no current ability or type grants immunity to.

Explanation: This allows us to create a mon with a niche of blocking attacks that nothing else can block.We would choose which type to be immune to and whether the ability should be a clone of Levitate (pure immunity), something like Water Absorb (healing in addition to immunity), something like Flash Fire (boosting attacks of the same type in addition to immunity), or something like Sap Sipper or Motor Drive (granting a stat boost in addition to immunity). We could choose immunity to Bug to block U-Turn, Dark to block Knock Off, Ice to reduce its effectiveness as coverage, Fairy due to the strength of the Fairy type or something else.

Questions to be Answered:
  • Which types would be most affected by the addition of a new immunity to them?
  • Is it better to block a type with a strong move or a type that is a strong attacking type in general?
  • Does a new immunity work better for a wall, a utility mon or to patch up an attacker's frailness?
  • Would a new immunity work best for a type that would otherwise be quad weak to that type, for a type that has the new immunity remove its one weakness, or for a type that can do STAB supereffective damage to the type it's immune to?
  • How does the existence of a new immunity affect teambuilding?
  • How does the existence of a new immunity affect a type's viability?
  • Would the new immunity be better explored by having it belong to a mon with only one ability, a mon with multiple abilities that grant the same immunity (like a mon with both Volt Absorb and Motor Drive) or a mon with one immunity ability and a secondary ability that does something else?
  • Would the immunity work better as just a pure immunity, or as a clone of a healing ability or stat boost ability, like Water Absorb or Lightning Rod?
  • Would having a novel immunity make the mon a pure gimmick, or would it still be able to be viable for other reasons?
  • If the immunity became more widespread, such as from Game Freak tweaking the type chart or adding another, similar ability, would the viability of a mon created for that purpose suddenly plummet?
 
Last edited:
Name: Pseudo-third STAB.

Description: This CAP possesses an ability that can offensively boost coverage Attacks that aren't normally STABbed.

Explanation: The base idea is for a Pokémon to strengthen a coverage type of Attacks thanks to its Ability. This has been seen notably with a Pokémon by the name of Dhelmise, and its Steelworker Ability. It however ultimately failed due to its main types having too much weaknesses and the Pokémon being too slow. This CAP could use Abilities such as the aforementioned Steelworker or Fairy Aura, Dark Aura, Steely Spirit, Dragon's Maw, or Transistor, or similar abilities locked between HP constraints such as Swarm, Torrent, Overgrowth and Blaze. However, there is room for further exploration with Abilities providing the Pokémon with a pseudo-third Type instead of STAB, which means a pseudo-third STAB and pseudo-third resistances. Such examples include Drizzle, Drought, Grassy Surge, Misty Surge, or Water Bubble. The pseudo-third STAB Abilities can also make the Pokémon be valuable support for the team. Electric Surge and Psychic Surge are examples of pseudo-third STAB Abilities that similarly support teammates throughout the course of a game due to side effects.

Questions to be Answered:
- How can a Pokémon with three STABs still stay balanced? What are good ways to outweigh the benefits of such abilities? Maybe those Abilities could be locked behind low-power moves, giving these some use, or behind a constraint such as with Swarm, Torrent, Blaze and Overgrowth?
- Can the Pokémon's third STAB Ability still support other playstyles without them going overboard?
 
Name: Weather-Abusing CAP

Description: This CAP has an ability, such as Sand Rush or Drizzle, or other concept that can make use of weather and weather teams, like how Mollux has Dry Skin and Jumbao has Drought.

Explanation: With Weather teams being big in OU, I feel that it's necessary to make a CAP that can actually abuse it. It could have an ability such as Swift Swim or Sand Stream, and maybe a mechanic that abuses that weather's capabilities.

Questions to be Answered:
  • What tricks could it use/have to counter opposing weather teams?
  • Should it be primarily focused on that weather, or try to be good in 2 or more weather conditions?
 
Last edited:
Name: Physical Fairy-type move CAP

Description: A Fairy-type CAP that has a high physical attacking stat and a custom move to compliment it.

Explanation: Right now there are only three notable physical attacking Fairy-type Pokemon. Zacian, a Pokemon so busted that it was banned to AG, twice, Azumarill, which is only a Physical Attacker because of Huge Power, and Grimmsnarl, which is currently in UU. There are also only two physical Fairy-type moves, Play Rough, and Spirit Break. The addition of another move would allow this CAP to have three STAB moves that utilize its Physical Attacking stat... assuming if it somehow gets Spirit Break alongside Play Rough, which might be possible. Ideas for this move include a priority move like Quick Attack or Extreme Speed, a recoil move like Double Edge, or maybe something ridiculous like a physical Fairy version of Eruption and Water Spout.

Possible questions:
  • What Pokemon can this CAP check?
  • Should it be paired up with another type, or should it be mono-fairy?
  • How would the custom Fairy-move act?
 
Last edited:

dex

As far as I know, I'm immortal
is a Pre-Contributor
Name: Physical Fairy-type move CAP

Description: A Fairy-type CAP that has a high physical attacking stat and a custom move to compliment it.

Explanation: Right now there are only two notable physical attacking Fairy-type Pokemon. Zacian, a Pokemon so busted that it was banned to AG, twice, and Grimmsnarl, which is currently in UU. There are also only two physical Fairy-type moves, Play Rough, and Spirit Break. The addition of another move would allow this CAP to have three STAB moves that utilize its Physical Attacking stat... assuming if it somehow gets Spirit Break alongside Play Rough, which might be possible.

Possible questions:
  • What Pokemon can this CAP check?
  • Should it be paired up with another type, or should it be mono-fairy?
  • How would the custom Fairy-move act?
I think this framework might need some more thinking through. First off, the addition of another physical Fairy-type move doesn't mean a whole lot, it would not run multiple moves of the same type unless the new move was priority or provided something new and meaningful over the other moves. Additionally, Azumarill is a prominent physically-inclined Fairy-type mon in the metagame that is not mentioned here. I think an interesting direction you could take this is by describing what this new move could be to be run in conjunction with something like Play Rough (ex: it has priority like a Fairy-type Aqua Jet or it has a high base power but has recoil or a stat-dropping effect like a Fairy-type Brave Bird or Overheat)
 
Name - Mythical Pixie Pokémon

Description - This CAP would be a "Mythical" Pokémon, like Mew or Celebi. It would have 100 In every base stat, with an optional signature ability or move.

Explanation - Mythical Pokémon are an odd bunch, somewhere between normal Pokémon and Legendries. Most have high BSTs, but their stats are restricted to all 100s or have a very strong bias restricting them to just one role. Most are, as far as I can tell, rarely if ever used in competitive play, and few are considered viable in OU. This CAP would aim to change that. For this Framework, we would be restricted to all 100's in the CAPs stats, with the optional inclusion of a custom signature Ability OR Move (Not both). While adding a Mythical Pokémon would allow us to expand upon the "Lore" of CAP, restricting our stats to all 100s allows us to remove a variable in the creation process, giving us a unique chance to explore how Typing, Ability and Moveset effect viability without being greatly effected by stats.

EDIT:
Just a suggestion but I'd probably add the word 'Pixie' to your title to get "Mythical Pixie Cap" because there are some existing mythicals like Volcanion, Zeraora etc. that don't have 100 in every base stat.
Yeah, I suppose so.
 
Last edited:

MrDollSteak

CAP 1v1 me IRL
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributor
Moderator
Name - Mythical Pokémon

Description - This CAP would be a "Mythical" Pokémon, like Mew or Celebi. It would have 100 In every base stat, with an optional signature ability or move.

Explanation - Mythical Pokémon are an odd bunch, somewhere between normal Pokémon and Legendries. Most have high BSTs, but their stats are restricted to all 100s or have a very strong bias restricting them to just one role. Most are, as far as I can tell, rarely if ever used in competitive play, and few are considered viable in OU. This CAP would aim to change that. For this Framework, we would be restricted to all 100's in the CAPs stats, with the optional inclusion of a custom signature Ability OR Move (Not both). While adding a Mythical Pokémon would allow us to expand upon the "Lore" of CAP, restricting our stats to all 100s allows us to remove a variable in the creation process, giving us a unique chance to explore how Typing, Ability and Moveset effect viability without being greatly effected by stats.
Just a suggestion but I'd probably add the word 'Pixie' to your title to get "Mythical Pixie Cap" because there are some existing mythicals like Volcanion, Zeraora etc. that don't have 100 in every base stat.
 
Last edited:
Name: Primal Weather Ability

Description: A CAP built around Desolate Land, Primordial Sea, or Delta stream.

Explanation: The three big three super-weather ability users are all snapped (and probably uber- (or even AG-) locked when added back), meaning that any competitive value of them is more or less lost. This CAP would aim at exploring and building upon the idea of these “selfish” weather setting abilities in a competitive format, and the effect of such weather on typing considerations and overall role.
 
Last edited:
Name - Art First

Description - For this CAP we would do the art submissions and poll first, then go through all the others stages with that design in mind.

Explanation - Allowing artists free reign to submit without being constrained by a pre-established competitive concept could allow for some really creative designs that might not see the light of day otherwise. It would also be cool to see how having an art design already selected alters the rest of the process. With some pokemon you can cleary guess what the typing and stats would look like, but in many other cases there are a lot of stats/types/abilities that would make sense (e.g. based on design alone it wouldn't be weird for gliscor to be a fast bug/dark mon).

Questions to be Answered:
  • Does the order of the other stages also require rearranging to accomodate putting the art stage first?
  • Is it better to pick art that can accomodate a wide range of competitive concepts, or is it ok to pick designs that clearly constrain the rest of the process?
  • When deciding the typing, abilites, and stats, how do we find a balance between fulfilling the concept and being faithful to the art? Should we make sure to pick a design which suits the art?
 

Wulfanator

Clefable's wish came true!
is a Pre-Contributor
Round 2. I am missing the last six and hope to get to them tomorrow.
Seeing as this framework has gone through yet another edit, I think it is in a more reasonable place compared to before. Originally, it was trying too hard to maintain the “two mons” aspect. This created a clunky outline because it still had to meet the multiple mons rule in the OP. I think the framework could benefit from treating the 521 BST as a soft limit. Excluding Archeops from the conversation seems odd since it meets the rock-type fossil criteria at the heart of this framework.
I am worried about this project for similar reasons as the legendary frameworks. This framework would need to be handled delicately as to not create a problematic Pokémon. Shedinja being locked to 1hp helps keep wonder guard in check. Seeing as the proposal wants to consider a greater hp stat, I grow more hesitant. I think this framework needs to suggest ways to prevent an overly centralizing final product.
Nothing inherently wrong with this framework. It is a very flavor-focused project and would try to recapture what Aurumoth is. I will say the leveling rate requirement is not relevant to CAP and you are better off just removing it.
I do not understand what this framework is purposing. We do not design CAPs for any other tier besides OU/CAP. You could rework this framework to be a single mon designed around a mechanic only found in Ubers. This way we would still be designing for OU/CAP but using an Ubers-locked feature. I feel like that is a happy middle ground of what I assume is being suggested. Maybe?
I appreciate what the framework is trying to do. It is pushing our understanding of what a framework is and attacks how the project fundamentally functions. That being said, this project cannot be reasonable completed in a timely manner. We intend to have a 1.0 release before the launch of Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl. Trying to run multiple tournaments before then just cannot be done or will lead to burnout for staff and players. Not to mention, the appeal of CAP is the fact anyone of any skill level can contribute to the project. If we suddenly do away with that, especially for a special project like this, I think we hurt the message behind CAP.
This is better suited as a concept than a framework since you can omit the sturdy requirement for it to be a legal concept.
Given that this project does not permit custom elements, this leaves 4 typings that can achieve the functionality described in the framework. In a single poll, you override the need for typing and primary ability which are traditionally the most active stages of any project. I do not know how I feel about that.
I have got nothing to add. The framework is simple and addresses the typical issues with the ghost functionality of curse.
I guess this works? I mean we have already addressed this to an extent with Syclant and Magic Guard is just this on steroids. I will say that this idea would free up our item slot as opposed to how a rocks weakness necessitates boots and magic guard creates a dependency on life orb.
“I’m you but better” is what this framework is going for, right? We are taking an existing mon and “buffing” it to be serviceable in OU/CAP? By buff, I mean optimizing 2 of typing, ability, stats, etc as if we were replacing and upgrading parts of a machine. Fine. If you abandoned retaining features of the mon we select, this could function as a concept.
This framework is slightly more inclusive than the other in-battle form change and limits us to existing mechanics. I will point you in the direction of the feedback from my last post since most of my thoughts would be the same. Otherwise, it is doable as written.
A few people have already provided some commentary on this framework, and I share their opinions. After a few stages, the two Pokémon will diverge to a point where runner-ups stop being beneficial for the other mon. I think this would work better if the framework was limited to typing and ability. I think this technically meets the requirements for shared stage because it takes no extra effort on our part to just used the 2nd place options.
I really appreciate simple frameworks because it means I have less commentary. As with any custom element, this will raise the entry barrier to CAP.
Immunities are a very powerful element of mons as a whole. I think our community has a stronger understanding of immunities because of Equilibra’s project: Levitate+Bulletproof. As stated in Freeze-Dry Clone, a custom element will raise the entry barrier to CAP. I think for the sake of balance, this would need to be limited to a mon that is not weak to the immunity type, almost like Mega-Sceptile’s 4x resistance to electric and having lightning rod. We do not want to build situations where we have a mon that is normally weak to a specific type but is now immune because of its ability. Players unfamiliar with the mechanic will click what is assumed to be the correct move and be punished for it.

I would like to see more feedback from other users like we have started seeing. I can use that feedback when constructing the slate so keep it up. Also, I will be reaching out to the mods see if users with illegal frameworks can submit new ones. I hope to have an answer for you all tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top