CAP 30 - Framework Submissions

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Name: Weak Status Move Ability

Description: This CAP has a custom ability that uses the effect of a weak status move upon switch-in.

Explanation: Currently abilities such as Drizzle, Intimidate, and Grassy Surge functionally activate a status move upon switch-in, and currently these are some of the strongest abilities in the game. This framework would aim to explore a weaker, niche status move, and see how effective it could be as an ability. While most status moves are clearly broken in this context, I believe other moves can act as balanced, but strong abilities. Some abilities that come to mind include Magic Room, Reflect Type, Imprison, Laser Focus, Recycle, and Torment.

Questions to be Answered:
- How can we reliably determine the effectiveness of a status move as an ability without being able to test them?
- Can a competitive mon be created by using a strong ability while sacrificing in other areas?
- Is there anything that can be learned from Colossoil's process, which did functionally the same thing with Rebound acting as Magic Coat?
I’d quickly like to throw my support behind this framework. There are loads of possibilities with this framework, not just regarding the number of crummy status moves, but the variety of concepts that could go very well with this concept. With moves ranging from Electrify to Laser Focus to stuff like Snatch, as well as the other moves mentioned in the OP, there is lots of design space both offensively and defensively for a Pokémon under this framework. I also enjoy the out-of-battle/genie/Giratina form frameworks, but I wanted to highlight this one since those have been discussed at length and I wanted to show that this framework has support behind it.
 
Just a quick note for anyone concerned about the "Prime Number Stats" thing in the Ultra Beast suggestion: if we look at all of the prime numbers between 41 and 199 (extreme numbers, I know, but not unprecedented), that gives us 34 prime numbers to choose from for stats. With 5 stats to pick (since Speed isn't required to be prime), we have 501,942 possible stat combinations available to us.

Math:
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calc...inationsreplacement.php?n=34&r=5&action=solve

Even if our stat biases are so tight that only 1% of those combinations are legal, that's still 5,019 possible combinations. So, are we probably going to see some similar stat spreads? Yes. Is there enough wiggle room for us to come up with a sizable variety of stat spreads? I think so.

All of which is to say, I personally like the Ultra Beast suggestion as is, and I think there's a lot of potential to have a fun and informative CAP if we pick it.
 
Name: Weak Status Move Ability

Description: This CAP has a custom ability that uses the effect of a weak status move upon switch-in.

Explanation: Currently abilities such as Drizzle, Intimidate, and Grassy Surge functionally activate a status move upon switch-in, and currently these are some of the strongest abilities in the game. This framework would aim to explore a weaker, niche status move, and see how effective it could be as an ability. While most status moves are clearly broken in this context, I believe other moves can act as balanced, but strong abilities. Some abilities that come to mind include Magic Room, Reflect Type, Imprison, Laser Focus, Recycle, and Torment.

Questions to be Answered:
- How can we reliably determine the effectiveness of a status move as an ability without being able to test them?
- Can a competitive mon be created by using a strong ability while sacrificing in other areas?
- Is there anything that can be learned from Colossoil's process, which did functionally the same thing with Rebound acting as Magic Coat?
I'll note that there is one Smogon Other Meta that already tests the effectiveness of status moves as abilities: Trademarked. Admittedly, very nearly every mon in Trademarked uses status moves as abilities, but some lessons about the power levels of status moves as abilities can still be gleaned there (e.g. Haze as an ability is quite good).

If we look at existing abilities that emulate status moves, (Growl/)Intimidate has been splashable and effective enough that multiple abilities were made immune to it in Gen 8, (Harden/)Dauntless Shield has been shockingly balanced if kinda annoying, and (Meditate/)Intrepid Sword has been good enough to chuck an Uber mon into Anything Goes. The weather abilities are good enough to catapult otherwise mediocre to bad mons multiple tiers upward, and the terrain abilities push mons' viability upward to a lesser extent.

We'll have to be careful that "Can a competitive mon be created by using a strong ability while sacrificing in other areas?" doesn't result in a mon that is too strong. Even a mon with Power Swap as its ability can provide a strong role player or maybe even a mon with an almost Spectral Thief-like oppression of boosting moves.
 
Name: Pikaclone CAP

Description: This CAP aims to fulfil the archetype of the Electric-Type Pikachu ripoff clone.

Restrictions:
  • This Pokemon's must have Electric as its primary typing. Marill's line and Mimikyu are not true Pikaclones.
  • This Pokemon cannot have any pre-evolutions or evolutions.
  • This Pokemon's BST has to be around the 400s, most of which is invested in Speed. (Gens 3 & 4 had 405 BST, and afterwards the numbers began rising slightly - Morpeko, the highest thus far, has a BST is 436.)
Optional flavors: This Pokemon must have Nuzzle in its movepool, and appeal to children by being adorable. As if CAP cares about the sugar overdose.

Explanation: Every generation of Pokemon since Gen III has had their Pikaclone (Plusle&Minun, Pachirisu, Emolga, Dedenne, Togedumaru, Morpeko), CAP should be no exception.

Question to be answered:
  • How on earth do we make this unviable archetype made for the competitive scene?!
 
Name: Flare Boost CAP

Description: This pokemon uses Flare Boost to become a powerful special attacker

Explanation: Flare boost is essentially a special attack version of guts with the differences being that Flare boost only works with the burn status and instead of boosting special attack the way guts boosts attack, flare boosts directly boosts the base power of special moves by 1.5x (although the resulting damage is the same). It is a powerful ability in theory but since Drifblim is the only pokemon that has it and it is a. not the best pokemon and b. has better abilities to use such as unburden, this ability sees almost no use whatsoever. It is also one of the only abilities that boosts special attacking power. Thus, a special attacker that utilizes this powerful ability would be an amazing idea for a new CAP mon.
 
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spoo

formerly 2spoopy4u
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Going to do the same as others and give my thoughts on the frameworks that are really cool to me atm - I think pip put it well when he said he's looking for something that could never be achieved within the scope of a regular CAP process, but still without heavy custom elements.

On one hand, this is a little uninteresting to me given some of the other options on the table for this project, but the fact that CAP hasn't had a normal-type yet is sorta criminal and I think that this framework would still lead to a particularly interesting end product. In general this is a very straightforward framework like Wulf said, and I don't even know if it would necessitate a concept - we could probably dive right into the process if we wanted. The only thing turning me off is that, well, we could still very easily do this within a normal CAP process - a framework isn't needed to make it happen, it only guarantees that we get a normal type for CAP30 rather than waiting around for it to happen naturally in the future.

These are my two favorite out-of-battle form difference frameworks, and they're roughly the same. The key difference, though, is that the Giratina framework would lock us into a single held item for one of the forms, while the Deoxys framework would allow the forms to hold anything. I think this is a really interesting added restriction that makes me lean slightly in favor of the Giratina framework. Both are super cool though so I'm hoping that one of these makes the slate.

Honestly this scares the shit out of me a bit because of how much potential it has to straight up break the game. Intimidate uses growl, one of the legit most useless moves, and ends up being insanely strong. We'd have to be extremely careful what move we choose here, but if we make a smart decision we could end up working with something really fascinating. I don't know how high I would personally vote this framework, just because I don't want to introduce a completely new custom mechanic into CAP as a matter of principle, but it's definitely one of the more interesting submissions so far.

This one is super cool but also a little worrying. I have a feeling that from a purely logistical standpoint, internal leadership would be figuring out a lot of things on the fly with respect to handling stages like stats/moves that are a little less clear on how we should randomize them. I could see this leading to a very disorganized project and a very stressed out leadership team. If this were to be selected, we would need to be insanely thorough beforehand with how we will be randomizing (or not randomizing) each stage, and clearly communicate that information to the community so that no one is confused on what the hell is happening. That being said, it's still awesome from a theoretical pov - we've historically tried to create a CAP out of a pre-existing concept or direction, and random slates explicitly reverse this, where we'd now be manufacturing a direction from a CAP that's already sorta created for us. I also love that this makes stages far more discussion based instead of "I want my submission to win," although this may still turn out to have negative implications on participation.

I'm pretty sure that everyone has wondered at some point "what would have happened if miasmaw had a different typing" or "if we had chosen a different bad ability for chromera" or something along those lines, and this framework more or less tries to answer that question. This framework was also edited a bit and I think it solved some of its previous issues. I imagine we'd do typing first and split off with the runner-up of ability (could do ability first too) - technically, this doesn't fit within the "undue burden" rule of frameworks, as only one stage of this mon would be identital and the remaining stages would be highly different still, but the "split off" stage would effectively require no extra effort or "burden" to produce. It wouldn't be any different in practice than if the first two stages were in fact identical, so I think it would still be okay. Anyways this is a pretty cool idea and I wouldn't be unhappy if it got picked.

There are awesome ideas here and I'm really looking forward to seeing the slate. Personally I'm really itching for some kind of form change, so my overall favorites are my own (I know I'm biased but stance change/battle bond/gulp missile CAP is so fucking cool guys) and the giratina framework, but like I said there are some other interesting ideas in the mix and I trust that this process will give us a great end result no matter what.

If anyone still hasn't subbed a framework and wants to get one in last-minute, though, here are a few ideas up for the taking:
"let's do a banned ability" casts a very broad net and encompasses a good few other frameworks like protean and primal weather
"do the process backwards/mess with process order" is pretty cool and is very similar to wulf's "move stage first" concept for CAP29 (one of the major criticisms of this concept was that it was too framework-y)
"iterative process/do the cap twice" could also be interesting, where we run through a cap process like normal (probably a little sped up) and then basically go back to each stage and assess what needs changing. I think you could look at this either as "literally go back and do each stage again" or "post-play lookback but on steroids," both are valid routes but I do believe that this framework would have a lot of logistical and timeline issues so make sure you can iron those out (at least partially) if you want to submit this
 
Gotta talk about the stuff I like:
Name: Form Change Ability triggered by a Move

Description: This Pokemon has an Ability which causes it to change forms upon the usage of a specific or a type/classification of move.

Restrictions:
- This framework requires two forms. They will have the same movepool and the same ability.
- This framework does require a custom ability unless we want to reuse an existing Move Based Form Change ability. This should be its only ability.
- This framework does not require a custom signature move for the form change, there are more than enough moves already in the game to choose from.
- This framework may change the typing of the Pokemon upon form change, but it is not a requirement.
- This framework may change the stats of the Pokemon upon form change, but it is not a requirement.

Explanation: One type of form change that I always find incredibly interesting and fun to play around with is the kind where the Pokemon changes form mid-battle. Among those, there are the Pokemon whose form change can be manipulated by the opponent, such as Mimikyu or Darmanitan. After just coming off of Chromera, I feel like it would be more interesting to explore a Pokemon that offensively transforms rather than defensively. Therefore, I feel a Pokemon who changes form based on the move selected by its trainer feels like an exciting direction to explore.

For a few examples of Pokemon who currently do this:
- Aegislash changes forms upon using a damaging move, and upon using King's Shield
- Cramorant changes forms upon using Surf or Dive

- Eiscue is a weird case. In singles, Ice Face functions as a form change upon Eiscue using Hail, but it is not technically a move based form change ability because others can trigger it too (impactful in doubles for example). This is a grey area that debatably counts for our purposes of CAP Singles.

- Melotta has Serene Grace as an ability, despite changing forms with Relic Song, and thus does not count.


I am leaving this framework broad and open so we have different choices of what kind of move based form change ability we would want to create, rather than just saying "We're making Cramorant 2.0" or something like that. This framework leaves not just the move or class of moves up to discussion, but also the effect that will come out of changing forms. Not only would this freedom give us a lot more room to further discuss in later stages, but it will also make a much less linear concept stage than some frameworks as we still have a very high amount of versatility with where we can go beyond the fact that we change forms upon using a move.

EDIT: After some feedback and discussion, I've got more written out below:

This will almost certainly require a custom ability, as was discussed in Discord and by Wulfanator here. I think this does open it up a bit more to exploring new avenues of how we can take this project, as opposed to specifically just choosing one of the existing choices (which would fall under Spoo's WIP.)

This is NOT a general form change framework. I wanted to make this more specific and targeted towards specifically proactive move-based form changes, rather than weather based like Cherrim/Castform, or health based like Wishiwashi/Minior for our primary trigger. That being said, the ability to change to the other form does vary in interpretation, leaving room and possibility for how we want to explore changing to the other form. Aegislash for example can change between its two forms depending on what move it uses, while Cramorant's Gulp Missile form changes back to normal upon getting hit. Likewise, Eiscue changes from Ice Face to melted face upon taking a physical hit. However, all three of these involve requiring a use of a move from the owner as its proactive trigger for the ability.

There are also differences between different form changing Pokemon about whether or not they retain their form change when switching in and out. This is something that would need to be discussed and explored alongside the condition. A Stance Change Pokemon for example enters the battle in its King's Shield form primarily, and then changes out of it when using an attacking move. An Ice Face Pokemon retains its form change and must use the move Hail to restore its Ice Face as its proactive trigger. We have choices and precedent for both, form changes that reset upon leaving the field as well as form changes that stay upon switching out. How we want to approach this varies, giving us lots of freedom for different kinds of concepts and ways to approach this in both concept assessment as well as ability discussion.

In other words, despite sounding limited as a form change restricted to having its primary proactive trigger based on the use of a move or class of moves, it is still very open for of exploration and diversity in how we can explore it afterwards.
Form Change baby! Within the set of different Form Change Frameworks I like this because it tries to narrow our choices down early. While it might make Framework discussion a bit shorter, we also know pretty much what we’re getting from the start, which I think is nice to keep the FW running smoothly

Name: Weak Status Move Ability

Description: This CAP has a custom ability that uses the effect of a weak status move upon switch-in.

Explanation: Currently abilities such as Drizzle, Intimidate, and Grassy Surge functionally activate a status move upon switch-in, and currently these are some of the strongest abilities in the game. This framework would aim to explore a weaker, niche status move, and see how effective it could be as an ability. While most status moves are clearly broken in this context, I believe other moves can act as balanced, but strong abilities. Some abilities that come to mind include Magic Room, Reflect Type, Imprison, Laser Focus, Recycle, and Torment.

Questions to be Answered:
- How can we reliably determine the effectiveness of a status move as an ability without being able to test them?
- Can a competitive mon be created by using a strong ability while sacrificing in other areas?
- Is there anything that can be learned from Colossoil's process, which did functionally the same thing with Rebound acting as Magic Coat?
This is very nuts, which is good! I really like that there seems to be an endless variety of moves that we can chose from.
BUT looking at the OM Trademarked, we can see that a looot of seemingly bad status moves get really strong really fast.
We definitely have to be very careful in our selection and I think this Fw would do well to specify a bit more just how weak the moves should be.

Name: Giratina-style Forms

Description: This CAP has an out-of-battle form change like Giratina- the form change is only accessible through holding an unremovable custom item like Griseous Orb.

Restrictions:
-The mons, like Giratina, will share a typing, and movepool.
-The abilities can be completely different between forms.
-The stats can be different between forms, while maintaining the same base total. Note that this does not need to swap offenses and defenses like Giratina's forms, though this is not to exclude that option either. The way that stats differ between these two mons should be decided at the stats stage.

Explanation: This was a pretty popular submission last framework and I think it remains an interesting concept! This gives us a chance to do two mons at once, and perhaps take two different routes to the same concept without overloading.
Making a mon that is forced to hold an item also has really interesting competitive implications; items have changed drastically since the last gen. No more Z-moves, no mega stones, and the introduction of Heavy Duty Boots has changed how we look at the value of items. Knock Off is everywhere because it always works, and Trick is near-guaranteed to be effective. Meanwhile, being locked into an item greatly reduces the potential scope of mons like Giratina-O, which'll be known to never hold a scarf, band, leftovers, or any kind of tricky tech. Knowing this gives us a really interesting situation where we will be trying to maximise the value of the benefits of a locked item, while overcoming the fact that it forfeits access to many other quality items and has no surprise factor. What's more, the other form will be tackling the exact opposite situation, trying to stand out from the held item form by having access to different stats and those key meta items.

The held item will be a new custom item (like Crucibellite was), and will share the qualities of Griseous Orb- "If held by CAP30, its STAB attacks have 1.2x power." It is unable to be removed when held by CAP30 (not other Pokemon), and doesn't have any effect when held by other Pokemon. There is room in concept assessment to change the effect to that of another item, if desired- for example, Leftovers' effect.
I like this one a lot. Mostly because while it seems to be about creating two different Pokémon it’s also about creating an item and its interaction with its user. That’s what I think makes it more interesting than genies/deoxys forms, which otherwise is quite similar.

Sure, I'll submit this one since no one has yet.

Name: Regional Forme

Description: This is a CAP that is a regional (Galarian) forme / evolution of a previous CAP.

Explanation: As I previously said, I think that this submission is a little inevitable. We've seen Game Freak go and revamp older Pokemon in the past two generations through regional formes, with some providing true buffs to viability. Whether it's differing typing, like addition of the dark type to Alolan-Muk, or an active change in ability for the better, like Gorrila Tactics on Galarian-Darmantian, there's options to explore here. With CAPs now having an extensive list of creations, there are a number of Pokemon that could use a REgional forme or even regional evolution.

Now I'm not going to beat around the bush with this submission, it's pretty limited. If we follow with the trend of how Game Freak creates regional formes, we would essentially pick a former CAP, change its typing, slightly adjust its stats (G-Corsola), review its movepool and add and remove things as necessary, and that would essentially be it from a competitive standpoint. However, in that rather simplistic process, there's a lot of opportunity for depth. I'll go over these in the "Questions to be Answered" stage.

Questions to be Answered:
  • Which CAPs could fill an entirely different niche with a single change to its in-game notes? (a la Slowking vs. G-Slowking)
    • To that end, how different can we make a CAP competitively when compared to its base forme?
  • Would making a final form CAP a prevo stage with a new evolution be an interesting concept? (Mr. Mime vs. G-Mr. Mime)
  • Are there any CAPs that would be inadvertently buffed through a single change in typing? (A-Muk)
  • Are there any specific changes / buffs / nerfs that Game Freak hasn't explored with regards to Regional Formes?
  • Would a regional evolution of a previous CAP work to improve or change a competitive niche of an existing CAP? (Obstagoon, Perserker, Mr. Rime)
Again, I acknowledge that this would be a very limited process, but it's a neat Framework that could be fun to explore.
Can we Finnaly Buff Mala? Also the more interesting iteration on Eviolite imo.

Name: Random Slates

Description: The Slate for as many stages as possible are slated randomly.

Explanation: One thing I've thought to be interesting is a sorta emergent design process, that is, where we sorta have to figure out what the cap is gonna be based on options given to us. A randomly decided slate (eg random type combos, random abilities) would facilitate and encourage this emergent design behavior. The specific rules it would be breaking are well, the community suggestion of options for the slate, instead being replaced with (in as many stages as possible) the random generation and then community discussion of a pre-given slate. I am uncertain whether this framework would require a concept, but it would probably be helpful to have a fairly general one. An idea to how this could look is:

Typing: Generate N Type 1 / Type 2 combos (eg slate Bug / Dragon, Electric / Steel, Normal / Poison chosen completely randomly)

Discuss options based on the random slate, trying to figure out which one matches the vision of the mon so far

Vote on options on the random slate.

I think this random generation would be applicable to Typing, Abilities, Sorta Stats (maybe generate highest stat / lowest stat pairings without numbers), maybe randomly select 1-2 random defining moves.
This is nuts and I live for nuts! This is what frameworks should be for. Messing as much with the Process as possible, while still having fun.

Name: Permanent Health-Based Form Change

Description: This CAP will have a custom ability which functions like Power Construct (Possibly IS Power Construct depending on how it is coded), Changing the base form into a new form when health reaches a certain threshold. (And not reverting to the base until the battle is over.)

Explanation: Power Construct is an interesting ability, being the only form change which alters the base HP stat. With Zygarde, this is all the ability really does, acting as a huge heal when half health is reached. This framework can also be though of like a more permanent Zen-Mode. The slight other changes Zygarde recieves shows the ability is not limited to health. Other stats and even typing could be altered when the ability triggers. While ability and movepool remain constant, the rest of the pokemon could change drastically when critical HP is reached.
I like this. I would suggest to also mention other health based form changes like Schooling, Zen Mode, and the Minior one or rename it into Power Construct Form Change or sm

still wip

Name: In-battle form change ability

Description: A CAP that makes use of one of the 12 current in-battle form changing abilities

Explanation: There have been a number of "form difference" frameworks submitted so far but none specifically targeting in-game abilities. This framework also doesn't allow for a brand-new custom ability, except for potentially reskinning an already existing ability because of flavor or to get around coding issues. The 12 in-game abilities (in a hide tag at the bottom for reference) obviously are not all equally desirable, but still allow for significant enough choice and depth to work with, and I would argue that (almost) all potential small-scale custom changes to existing abilities aren't significant or necessary enough to the project's success to allow. In-battle form changes are fascinating on the right Pokemon and are historically some of the most interesting Pokemon to use within their respective tiers, so this framework would really let us get the most out of these abilities and explore something that CAP has only ever done for Crucibelle.

As far as other logistics, stat changes between forms are a bit tricky to work out, but I imagine we would remain close to the precedent set by the holder of each respective ability. For example, if Stance Change is chosen we would just be swapping offensive and defensive stats as with Aegislash, and with Power Construct you'd probably still double the HP and allow for minor changes in other areas, but stuff like Battle Bond (+50atk +50spa +10spe) and Shields Down (swap offenses+defenses, +60spe) might have room for more subjective interpretation and changes as long as we aren't diverging too much. This framework would also necessitate that the ability stage goes first in the process, unless the ability is chosen in concept assessment for some reason in which case we wouldn't need an ability SL.

Battle Bond
Disguise
Flower Gift
Forecast
Gulp Missile
Hunger Switch
Ice Face
Power Construct
Schooling
Shields Down
Stance Change
Zen Mode
I like that this is very broad so we can try to explore different directions before focusing on one in particular. Although this might also make the framework discussion a bit chaotic because there’s so

Name: Runner-Up CAP

Description: Two CAPs are created, the first of which follows a regular CAP process. The second of which will at some point branch off of the first CAP by using the runner-up option of one, or multiple competitive polls. After that the second CAP will continue to be created as a second regular CAP process but still following the same concept.

Explanation: As an onlooker to many CAP projects, I sometimes find myself wondering how a given CAP would have turned out differently if a few votes swung in a different direction. A project such as this would allow us to take a glimpse into that alternate universe.

Ideally a separate framework assessment would proceed to determine when the second CAP would split off of the first by taking the runner up of the poll(s) (eg at the secondary ability stage; at the stats stage; at both typing and primary ability), as it would allow the community to determine which would give us most insight into the project process.

I think it will also be very interesting to see just how different the two pokemon may end up being, while ultimately being created from the exact same concept.
I love this, just because I wish I could play with Electric/Dark Download Miasmaw even for just one Day. Make this a reality for even just one mon. I also like the adjustments you made.
 
Sure, I'll submit this one since no one has yet.

Name: Regional Forme

Description: This is a CAP that is a regional (Galarian) forme / evolution of a previous CAP.

Explanation: As I previously said, I think that this submission is a little inevitable. We've seen Game Freak go and revamp older Pokemon in the past two generations through regional formes, with some providing true buffs to viability. Whether it's differing typing, like addition of the dark type to Alolan-Muk, or an active change in ability for the better, like Gorrila Tactics on Galarian-Darmantian, there's options to explore here. With CAPs now having an extensive list of creations, there are a number of Pokemon that could use a REgional forme or even regional evolution.

Now I'm not going to beat around the bush with this submission, it's pretty limited. If we follow with the trend of how Game Freak creates regional formes, we would essentially pick a former CAP, change its typing, slightly adjust its stats (G-Corsola), review its movepool and add and remove things as necessary, and that would essentially be it from a competitive standpoint. However, in that rather simplistic process, there's a lot of opportunity for depth. I'll go over these in the "Questions to be Answered" stage.

Questions to be Answered:
  • Which CAPs could fill an entirely different niche with a single change to its in-game notes? (a la Slowking vs. G-Slowking)
    • To that end, how different can we make a CAP competitively when compared to its base forme?
  • Would making a final form CAP a prevo stage with a new evolution be an interesting concept? (Mr. Mime vs. G-Mr. Mime)
  • Are there any CAPs that would be inadvertently buffed through a single change in typing? (A-Muk)
  • Are there any specific changes / buffs / nerfs that Game Freak hasn't explored with regards to Regional Formes?
  • Would a regional evolution of a previous CAP work to improve or change a competitive niche of an existing CAP? (Obstagoon, Perserker, Mr. Rime)
Again, I acknowledge that this would be a very limited process, but it's a neat Framework that could be fun to explore.
I have a question about this framework. We're now doing buff processes for defunct CAPs. Let's say we choose to make a regional form of Malaconda for this process, and then subsequently we decide to buff Malaconda. Regional forms always have the same BSTs as far as I know, so wouldn't this constrain possible future buffs for both forms to not include stat buffs?

Edit: gotcha, thanks for clarifying that Voltage
 
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Voltage

OTTN5
is a Pre-Contributor
I have a question about this framework. We're now doing buff processes for defunct CAPs. Let's say we choose to make a regional form of Malaconda for this process, and then subsequently we decide to buff Malaconda. Regional forms always have the same BSTs as far as I know, so wouldn't this constrain possible future buffs for both forms to not include stat buffs?
I'm sure it would in some way, though I think that this framework should ultimately be treated independently of potential future buffs. Additionally, while BSTs ultimately remain the same, the base stat spreads do vary which means that in theory there would be room to work and a just as needed.

But frankly, and this is just my two cents, I figure that if this framework is chosen and we do opt for a regional forme on a CAP that would otherwise want a buff, I don't think that CAP would necessary qualify anymore, if that makes sense. If we make a regional forme for it, while not equivalent to a buff necessarily, I think it would remove said CAP from the "immediate buff" pool. Again, just my opinion on this, which is not gospel by any means.
 
Kinda last minute but thought I'd just talk about the framework subs I like:

This more or less groups the genie/deoxys forms, Giratina forms, gender differences, and so forth. I'm pretty indifferent on which of these gets slated, but regardless I think it'll be very interesting to see how two very similar mons will be able to carve out their own distinct niches in the same metagame, a challenge that I believe will make for a compelling process.

If I were to choose one to be on the slate I'd go with Giratina since throwing held items into the mix is pretty cool.
This encompasses Form Change from a Move, Form Change from an Ability, and Health-based Form Change. All of these create a Pokemon whose playstyle changes over the course of the battle, which I find really cool. I think there's a lot of design space here to consider what should be the strengths and weaknesses of each form and how much agency players should have in controlling what form they are using.

Once again if I were to choose one to be slated I'd go for Form Based on and Ability just because I feel that there's more design space there with how we choose to change forms.
Although there are some logistical issues with this framework, I think the design space this framework offers is interesting enough for it to deserve a spot on the slate. It's very similar to the Out-of-Battle Forms framework in the sense that it challenges us to establish multiple similar mons as viable without overlapping or outclassed niches, only this time there are far more mons and the only difference is their typing. This framework also raises questions of how scouting for type will play into the design and how sacrificing our held item will play into viability. This will be a challenging framework, but I do believe it'll make for a fun process.
This framework I find to be super cool and unique, especially since it challenges the process itself, which few of these submissions have done. CAP typically tries to optimize as much as possible during the process, and I think challenging ourselves by forcing us to optimize from a restricted pool will be a fresh and exciting experience.

Two concerns I do have about this framework however is how the roles of the TLT is affected, and the possibility that we may just get unlucky and be stuck with something bad. To alleviate this I'd propose that we randomly generate, say, 20 options insteadof the typical slate size, discuss, and make a slate that trims down our given options.
As someone do doesn't play SM, the idea of a Protean CAP seems quite interesting. The FlashCAP Horusands I believe demonstrates how Protean can be used differently than just "STAB on everything" and I would love to explore what this Ability has to offer to its fullest extent.
 
Normal Type CAP: I feel this framework is a great balance of being open enough to remain interesting and focused enough to lead to excellent discussions and a good end result. Particularly since the only Normal types to work their way into OU and UU consistently are Blissey and Chansey, this is a great opportunity to see what it takes to thrive as a Normal type in the CAP meta outside of massive amounts of special tankiness.
VERY late but I wanted to share my opinions on this. This seems like a fun approach, since there are literally NO fully-evolved Normal-type CAP mons. It would probably be nice to have a Normal-type that abuses the Ghost immunity too, or it's lack of weaknesses, so a mon with a similar role to Blissey would probably be nice for the only/first FE normal-type CAP mon.
 
Name: Counterparts CAP

Description: A pair of different or same species pokemon that share one or both types and have the same BST, as well as share the same abilities.

Restrictions:
  • One or both types must be shared
  • BST must be the same for both pokemon
  • Abilities must be exactly identical
  • The two pokemon must be unique in some way from each other
Explanation: Despite being here for such little time, it's obvious even to me that CAP is a process filled with many interesting paths. Every CAP is filled with a backstory of different ideas, from different types to different stats and different roles, and inevitably many interesting ideas get shelved in exchange for the "best" route. This framework aims to explore this by creating two pokemon with similar enough traits while also allowing each to be unique enough from the other for us to see how a concept can be interpreted in unique ways.

While there are not many examples that fully fall in to guidelines given here, close examples include nidoking vs queen, the slows vs the galar slows, and heracross vs pinsir, while poor examples include mons such as zangoose vs seviper and durant vs heatmor.
Name: Runner-Up CAP

Description: Two CAPs are created, the first of which follows a regular CAP process. The second of which will at some point branch off of the first CAP by using the runner-up option of one, or multiple competitive polls. After that the second CAP will continue to be created as a second regular CAP process but still following the same concept.

Explanation: As an onlooker to many CAP projects, I sometimes find myself wondering how a given CAP would have turned out differently if a few votes swung in a different direction. A project such as this would allow us to take a glimpse into that alternate universe.

Ideally a separate framework assessment would proceed to determine when the second CAP would split off of the first by taking the runner up of the poll(s) (eg at the secondary ability stage; at the stats stage; at both typing and primary ability), as it would allow the community to determine which would give us most insight into the project process.

I think it will also be very interesting to see just how different the two pokemon may end up being, while ultimately being created from the exact same concept.
It strikes me that these two could probably be done in the same process, depending on when we have the two Pokemon diverge in the runner-up framework. For instance, we could pick a goal and a typing that is shared by both Pokemon, and then they become counterparts to each other, with one receiving the runner-up abilities and stat spread of the main one. We would thereby create two similar Pokemon that ostensibly serve the same purpose but go about it in different ways and with different flavor, similar to Hitmonlee, Hitmonchan, and Hitmontop all being Fighting breakers but with different strengths. We could also pick one primary type and then vote on the secondary type, creating Pokemon that are much more different from each other but can still serve as counterparts, like with Drampa and Turtonator or Grimmsnarl and Hatterene. But if we pick both typings of the second Pokemon by the runner up vote, then this probably wouldn't work as a means to make two counterparts.



Random Slate This framework I find to be super cool and unique, especially since it challenges the process itself, which few of these submissions have done. CAP typically tries to optimize as much as possible during the process, and I think challenging ourselves by forcing us to optimize from a restricted pool will be a fresh and exciting experience.

Two concerns I do have about this framework however is how the roles of the TLT is affected, and the possibility that we may just get unlucky and be stuck with something bad. To alleviate this I'd propose that we randomly generate, say, 20 options insteadof the typical slate size, discuss, and make a slate that trims down our given options.
I think another way do stats work with the random slate framework would be to generate a random set of six stat values, but then we get to decide which stats to use these numbers in. This would allow for a ton of creativity on how to utilize the numbers we are given, and allow for a fail safe. If we get an awful number we could make it a dump stat like Mega Beedrill's special attack, and if we get an awesome value we'd get to decide whether we want to put it in a defense stat, an attack stat, or speed, with stuff like our randomized typing shaping the path we choose.
 

Wulfanator

Clefable's wish came true!
is a Pre-Contributor
Without further delay, I am excited to present your framework slate for CAP30.

Normal-Type CAP
Competitive NFE/Evolution Pair
Weak Status Move Ability
Giratina-Style Forms
Protean/Libero User
In-Battle Form Change Ability
Runner-Up CAP
Mythical Pixie Pokemon
Primal Weather Ability


My primary focus was to create a slate that avoided substantial overlap between the options. Most slates tend to pick 5-8 options for the poll, but I decided to include 9 as I feel it keeps the slate from appearing lopsided. The slate is organized based on the order the frameworks appear in the submission thread.

This was just a safe pick from the start. As I mentioned before, normal type is naturally avoided in a standard project since it does not provide much compared to all other typings. This framework would force us to seriously acknowledge the typing and explore its potential/limitations. The framework poses no severe burden to competitive stages and would produce our first normal-type CAP.
With every project, we have the option to build out the pre-evolutions. There is no competitive burden placed on them, so they often sit unused until someone promotes another CAP LC or NFE tour. This framework aims to turn that flavor component into a competitively relevant step. Compared to the other multi-CAP frameworks slated, this would give us two non-species locked mons where we are always actively designing for both halves and there are only moderate limitations on movepool and typing.
Having a framework with a strong custom element was a priority for this slate. Frameworks grant us greater flexibility with our project, and not entertaining this option felt like a terrible decision on my part. In the same way Intimidate improves a usually useless move like growl, the framework stands to elevate a slept-on mechanic. I see this as more legal compared to Steelsurge since many existing abilities are creating using this automatic use premise.
Using the feedback from other users, I was able to finally decide between Genie/Deoxys forms and this framework. Both were great choices since they have the same limitation regarding species clause, but I believe Giratina-Forms was slightly more appealing since one of the forms is item-locked. Giratina-Forms is also unique enough from the NFE framework since it mandates typing and movepool be shared as opposed to NFE’s soft limitations.
I wanted to have a less flashy and more direct framework in the mix. Protean/Libero is typically banned since it overrides the typing stage of a project. Like the Normal-Type framework, the only time we will ever have the opportunity to explore this option is with a framework.
In the same way I struggled to pick between Giratina and Genie/Deoxys, I struggled picking between the In-Battle Form Change frameworks submitted by Jewvia, Spoo, and Chuckeroo. I ended up picking Spoo’s In-Battle Form Change Ability since it covered elements of the other two. While I appreciate direct frameworks, I think the variety of mechanics available in this category was too wide to not give users the ability to discuss the route they wish to pursue.
This cleverly avoids the limitations expected for multi-CAP frameworks without creating additional work for the TLT. This would allow us to have two completely different mons that would otherwise be unobtainable with the new framework rules. It makes it the most unique of any of the multi-CAP frameworks.
This struck a nice balance between flavor and competitive which practically guaranteed it a spot on this slate. Pixies are not seeing as much use compared to gen 7. This would provide us an opportunity to see what a pixie would need to stay competitively relevant in the current landscape.
In the same vein as the Protean/Libero framework, the primal weather abilities would only be allowed through a framework. I think this framework grants the most raw power of any of the frameworks that do not introduce custom elements. I also appreciate that this is an Ubers restricted mechanic. It helps further set itself apart from Weak Status Move Ability and Protean/Libero.
 
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