Given that this was an ability-focused project, how has our concept held up following the release of both Venomicon forms? Did we achieve what we set out to explore or did our goal fall to the wayside in the pursuit of other priorities? Does CAP 30’s success equate to concept success?
We definitely managed to create two mons that use an underused ability incredibly well.
Venomicon Epilogue uses its ability to full extend almost every turn it is in, to be probably the easiest to use breaker of all time barring maybe Zygarde.
Tinted Lens is at the forefront of what makes this Mon so incredibly threatening and challenging to play against, which shows, that we managed to leverage its power as well as possible.
For Base Venomicon it doesn’t look so clean cut, as its ability isn’t activated as often.
But the threat it poses to physical attackers that can’t sufficiently threaten it back, makes playing around it extremely iffy, to the point where you can force unoptimal plays just by coming in with it. Teams that don’t have a dedicated answer get ripped apart, as base Book has an incredible ability to trade hits even with some of its offensive checks.
While I don’t think we made the most of its ability, it definitely plays into its strengths as a hard to force out tanky wincon.
Now that we have two framework projects to reference when evaluating the process, how can we improve our execution of multi-mon projects? Were there any stages that went exceptionally well this project? What stages had problems either with execution or pacing? What potential changes can be made to circumvent these problems in the future? Should we still consider multi-mon projects for future frameworks given the additional time they require?
Parts of this questions I can’t answer, but I think for the most part, the way we arranged the stages worked really well for tackling the concept within mithelfen two Mon framework.
I do think, that you could feel the exhaustion of the community towards the end of the competitive stages, as participation in movesets and movepool started to dwindle, which has more to do with how long the process dragged on, than the arrangement of the stages itself.
I think for that reason, we should stay away from multi Mon projects for the most part.
The process benefits from being short and crisp, as interest and engagement is usually highest during the first stages of the process. The longer it takes, the harder it gets to move on imo.
I don’t think we need to ban multi Mon frameworks outright, but the restriction to two mons, that have to share a significant part of their characteristics should stay in place.
How has that held up 6 months later? If it has changed, what did they evolve into and was it for the better?
I think both mons veered of course from the original idea, imo partly due to their typing, as it is incredibly well suited for being a boosting wincon (in different ways for both mons).
While Base Book definitely is an incredible tank, it’s NP set overshadowed any more traditional approach to that role.
Once SD was added to Ebook it was obvious, that any additional utility was basically unnecessary. It does so much more with a turn of set up. If anything, the only utility that seems worth it alongside the set up breaker set is knock off, as it makes it easier to break through stuff.
I don’t think it’s an Issue in itself, that we didn’t adhere to the roles we set out to fill with these two mons.
But it’s obvious now, that our initial impression, that boosting would be incredible on a tinted lens flying type held up and that the item version is certainly overturned with at least Swords Dance atm.
I think boosting is much more reasonable on the base form, but I also think, that the nasty plot set waters down the importance of Stamina for how Venomicon plays.
How well do both forms perform in the metagame? Give me the good, the bad, and the ugly. What are both forms’ defining features that set them apart from other mons? Do both mons have all the tools they need to be successful or, like Astrolotl at its launch, have we provided either form with too many tools?
As stated above, both feel slightly overtuned.
They definitely are self sufficient in the metagame and should be viable enough with what they have right now
They might be far from the splashability of release Astro, but both strain team building and playing in their own way and even moreso in conjunction.
Obviously they’re abilities help define them. Moreso the Item form as tinted lens is just incredible as an ability.
This gets further enhanced by its typing and item, which not only grants it a near unresisted superpowered STAB, but also some defensive utility, that other set up breakers lack. its resistances afford it with a lot of space for performing its role and make it self sufficient as a breaker in spite of its glaring stealth rock weakness.
Base Book doesn’t rely on its ability as much. Rather it is a combination of its Typing, Stats and absurdly coherent Nasty Plot set with hard to answer two move coverage, that make it so potent.
Outside of nasty plot It has felt like a solid, albeit somewhat underwhelming defensive mon, that is overshadowed by other more offensive flying types like Torn or Zapdos, (although I think utility focused sets might be better, if Ebook lost SD, as it would become a solid answer)
The most defining feature for both though imo is, that these are two hard to answer wincons/breaker, that force different, hard to reconcile answers on teams.
While building, it already feels like a win when you find a solid answer on your team for one of them, only to realize, that you now can’t fit an answer to the other one.
If you don’t ignore one of them, they (in combination with other potent mons like Urshifu or Tapu Lele) restrict teambuilding to only a small set of viable structures.
The only mon, that is able to answer both defensively in one slot is Zapdos and even that is strained by EBooks tinted lens in conjunction with SD, as it barely takes one hit, while at the same time struggling to actually break Base Book with the defensive set, that ebook forces.
Overall both are powerful forces, that atm strain the meta and definitely require toning down.
Compared to the last 4 projects (Equilibra, Astrolotl, Chromera, and Miasmaw), how do the Venomicon forms compare to the power-levels of these mons? Is this the power-level we want to strive for in the future or is this a project that will push us in the opposite direction (either more or less powerful)?
i think we slightly overshot, and a powerlevel between the books and miasmaw would be ideal, but I too think, that it’s easier to balance a slightly overpowered CAP with small adjustments in the PPL (see Astrolotl), than to bring an underwhelming mon to a solid power level (see Miasmaw).
Lastly, does either form need competitive changes? If so, what is the reasoning behind your conclusion? Are theses issues with stats or movepool or both? What changes can we make that target these problematic elements without introducing excessive additions/removals?
As shown above, both forms seem slightly overpowered.
The more obvious one, after having some time to play with them, is Venomicon Epilogue.
It’s SD set can’t be answered essentially (not in the builder at least) and in game you basically have the option of „getting rocks up and pressure it offensively until it dies“, „please let it trigger static now“ or click x.
At the center of this is definitely Swords Dance. Swords dance means one less chance of triggering static, triggering helmet or iron barbs one time less, not being able to spam recover until it dies to its own recoil.
IMO Swords dance definitely should be removed from Ebook.
The base form is less obvious and after the initial oh shit what even answers this, the meta seems to have adjusted a bit and it seems much easier to handle. I don’t think we have to cut moves (although I believe, that removing NP would let Stamina shine a bit more). I think we could definitely have a look at nerfing it’s bulk a bit, as it sometimes is ridiculous how much it actually can take, to the point where you easily remove would be answers like Tapu koko or Zeraora and heal back afterwards.
), and it's disturbing how much defensive counterplay is riding on Zapdos and a handful of other load-bearing Pokémon. However, I get the sense that this is the reality we accepted when we decided to push out two Flying-types for CAP 30, one with its own Griseous Orb, both of them conspicuously circumventing the traditional Zapdos.
