CAP 31 - Part 2 - Typing Discussion

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Yo, I'm subbing Grass/Fighting.
How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?
Gonna answer this one first. The most glaring aspect of this typing is its deathly fear of Flying-types, but I think being able to lure in Flying-types and hit them with either neutral STABs or a SE Diamond Storm has quite a bit of merit. Looking at some relevant Flying-type switch-ins:
  • Corviknight
  • Dragonite
  • Landorus-Therian
  • Tornadus-Therian
  • Venomicon-Prologue
  • Zapdos
Corv can be worn down through Fighting STAB, Lando-T can be broken through with Grass STAB, and all the rest get nailed SE by Diamond Storm. Grass can also slam most bulky Waters (Argh, Fini, Slow twins, and Rotom), with only Pex not being hit SE. The trio of Grass + Fighting + Rock offers potent neutral coverage, only being hard-stopped by Aegi.

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
Ground is the most notable resistance here, meaning being on the receiving end of an Earthquake is a lot more breathable, especially with a +2 Defense boost. Grass/Fighting also resists Dark (aka Knock Off), which can come in handy. Some less useful, but still notable resists are Electric and Water. Resisting Electric can make it easier to deal with Zeraora in tandem with a Knock resist, though Close Combat could potentially still hurt. A Water resistance sounds nice, but Scald burns are no bueno, so leveraging this resist is dicier. Taking less damage from Rocks is also quite helpful.

What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
What comes to mind is Ice, aka Weavile. The Knock resist helps a lot in this MU, and this typing can potentially tank through Weav's Ice attacks to KO with Fighting STAB or Diamond Storm. Fire in the form of Astrolotl is also kinda notable since +2 Defense can mitigate Fire Lash's Defense drops, though Scarf Astro can potentially hit hard with Draco anyway. Unfortunately, every other type that Grass/Fighting is weak to is either the 4x Flying or is mostly only relevant on the special side.

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?
While I did point out this typing's defensive capabilities, it is definitely more of an offensive typing. Grass/Fighting is straddled with a ton of common weaknesses. Grass/Fighting's main strength is the powerful coverage offered by its STABs combined with DStorm. Grass/Fighting can potentially use its resists to find switch-in opportunities and make it more difficult to KO after a +2, but its easily exploitable weaknesses means it would much rather lean more on the offensive.

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Commentary on types that I'm iffy on:
Submitting Electric/Dark
Cool type, but why would this run Diamond Storm? Electric/Dark offers excellent neutral coverage that makes Rock completely redundant. The only relevant mons that resist both types are Tapu Koko, Jumbao, and Colossoil, none of which are weak to Rock and the latter resists it. Astro is listed as something Diamond Storm hits, but if this type is getting Diamond Storm, it's gonna lean physical and very likely be given Knock Off, something Astro is not gonna like taking anyway. If anything, this type would probably run DStorm to hit Zapdos, and that's pretty much it. I don't see why Electric/Dark would run DStorm outside of that.

Submitting Fighting/Steel
This one is sorta hampered by having a deceptively mediocre defensive profile and awkward coverage. Neutrality to Flying in tandem with weaknesses to Fire, Fighting, and Ground means it's more easily pressured than other Steel types in OU/CAP, which either resist Flying and/or aren't weak to one or two of Fire, Fighting, or Ground. Steel/Fighting also gets hard-walled by the Slow twins, and really only wants Rock coverage to prevent being hard-walled by Zapdos and I guess to hit Venomicon-P harder. This typing just doesn't use DStorm as well as other typings I feel.

I propose Bug/Electric.
My thoughts on this are similar to Electric/Dark, in that it's gonna be using Electric STAB more than it's gonna be using Diamond Storm. Except Bug/Electric isn't as strong as Electric/Dark. Bug resists are way more common than Dark, making it a lot more exploitable and Rock coverage doesn't really fix that. It also can't put its resists to good use, since it does not threaten any of the types it resists with SE damage (not even Grass since all of the prevalent Grass-types are neutral to Bug). Not to mention its vulnerability to all hazards means it's married to Boots. I guess it does have some incentive to run DStorm so it isn't hard-walled by Astro and Zapdos, but this is another type that doesn't really take DStorm to its full potential imo.
 
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Cool type, but why would this run Diamond Storm? Electric/Dark offers excellent neutral coverage that makes Rock completely redundant. The only relevant mons that resist both types are Tapu Koko, Jumbao, and Colossoil, none of which are weak to Rock and the latter resists it. Astro is listed as something Diamond Storm hits, but if this type is getting Diamond Storm, it's gonna lean physical and very likely be given Knock Off, something Astro is not gonna like taking anyway. If anything, this type would probably run DStorm to hit Zapdos, and that's pretty much it. I don't see why Electric/Dark would run DStorm outside of that.
I was going to mention this in my original post but didn't because I thought it was kinda polljumpy, but having the Dark type does not automatically mean this would get Knock Off. I agree with you that Knock Off would render Diamond Storm pointless, and I was debating over whether or not to mention that in my original post, but again I held back because I didn't want to assume we were/weren't getting certain STABs. I added Dark to Electric for its utility in granting an immunity to Future Sight, not because "Knock Off fucks everything over." There are enough Dark type Pokemon that exist that don't have Knock Off that I think the idea that it could potentially not have it isn't so crazy. And the next best thing, Darkest Lariat, while good with Dark STAB, I don't believe is strong/spammable enough to completely outshine Diamond Storm. Additionally I think you're looking at Diamond Storm only from a coverage perspective, but being Rock coverage isn't the only thing Diamond Storm is, as I think it would have nice utility in preventing it from being revenge killed by Ground and Fighting type attacks, something that Dark type moves cannot do.

I apologize if this came off as ranty/argumentative, and I also apologize if I sounded polljumpy, this was something I wasn't going to talk about because of that. I don't mean any disrespect, I just wanted to point out that I think that measures could possibly be taken to ensure that Dark does not outshine Diamond Storm offensively.
 
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reachzero

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I support Rock/Flying. The typing lends itself to strong physical attacking with potential for strong complementary STAB alongside Diamond Storm, while allowing us some nice clean decisions for the Checks and Counters stage (Equilibra, Melmetal, etc) that can ensure we aren't too strong.

Importantly, Rock/Flying offers some clearly advantageous matchups to ensure CAP 31 can get on the field, including against such perennial favorites as Landorus-T, Venomicon and Heatran. This isn't the best against Zeraora or Weavile, but should survive after a Diamond Storm boost considering the lack of 4X weaknesses to their moves. Fighting neutrality and Flying STAB largely neutralizes the threat of Argonaut and Revenankh to CAP 31, one of the usual issues for Rock-based type combinations.

Overall, I think this is the most useful and relevant of the "STAB Diamond Storm" options.

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?

Ground immunity, Fire resistance and Flying resistance are major features of Rock/Flying. STAB Diamond Storm makes the good Venomicon and Astrolotl matchups especially appealing.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

Getting a SpD boost in Sand probably won't happen unless you build around it, but the prospect of boosting SpD alongside Diamond Storm Def boosts is nice.

Spikes immunity helps a bit in terms of avoiding the Stealth Rock weakness becoming too bad.

What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?

Weaknesses to Ice and Electric generally are dangerous in terms of getting revenge killed by Zeraora or Weavile--Diamond Storm boosts make it more difficult for this to happen. If CAP 31 is faster than Urshifu it could also perhaps prevent Aqua Jet revenge kills, but this would be risky business considering that Scarf Urshifu is hardly unknown. It should be noted that Urshifu is a pretty strong threat to negate Diamond Storm boosts for all types, and Rock/Flying at least discourages it from coming in reasonably well.

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

This type combinations is offensively oriented, but it does use the defensive applications of Diamond Storm; it is probably best suited to be Zapdos or Heatran-esque sort of role, less extreme than the Stratagems or Slowbros of the world.

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?

STAB Flying ensures that CAP 31 is not stonewalled by Argonaut, one of the most momentum-killing things that can happen against Diamond Storm, and improves matchups against Ferrothorn and Urshifu. Generally, "Flying type that can seriously threaten Zapdos" is a nice offensive role to have.
 
Now I'm not the best at these but I'ma try my best.
For me I think Rock/Water will be a nice way for cap 31 to go.

For my defense
  1. What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
Well I think this type is a great approach if we chose to run STAB with Diamond Storm (which I do). It gains water neutrality like with Rock/Grass, but this time it doesn't open itself up for fire attacks. This will also make it a 50/50 with ground types, saying we can now hit them too thanks to the water type. Now usually water and rock types and very bulky so I think CAP 31 with this typing can also tank Ghost moves with STAB. The only problem will be the fighting, electric, and grass typing. But I think the tankiness and the defense raise might be enough to debuff the fighting type a little bit.

2. Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

One big benefit I may look at here is Aqua Ring. The weaknesses it has here, the small hp heal it will get (ontop of whatever item you have) will be great. If you take that, plus the defense raise (and Amnesia if you dare) could make one hella bulky mon that's really hard to take down. Because of the Rock typing, Stealth rock AND Spikes might be open to us as well which could hurt the opposing team A LOT.

3. What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?

The Fighting type for sure can be stopped pretty well by Diamond Storm. But that's about it, I am sure, you can stop physical ground users. But, Earth Power does exist. The grass typing is a big problem for us, especially sense most of them are special attackers, which again is why I am thinking about Amnesia. The Electric type is also a threat, but Diamond Storm can't save us there either. We would need to have Ground moves to take care of the electric typing (which a Rock type is more than capable of learning)

4. Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

This typing uses Diamond Storm both offensively and defensively. Diamond Storm does a lot of damage so the offensive part is self explanatory. But defensively too? Yeah, CAP 31 running Rock/Water will need the defense raise for fighting types and some Ground types. But that's about it.

5. How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?

This type mostly will use STAB on Diamond Storm for the extra damage. But the main reason I chose this type is so CAP 31 can abuse how fricken bulky it is. This plus Amnesia (I will revolt, Amnesia is needed) will make one bulky mon. But it will need Amnesia anyway to deal with Grass, Electric, and Earth Power.

(I told you I'm not the best at this, but I tried to get my point across... so yeah)
 
Nobody has done it yet so I will be the one to submit Rock/Steel


What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?


The biggest resistance we gain is a massive double-resistance to Flying, alongside an immunity to Poison. What this means is that we're immediately positioned to be a fantastic check to the dangerous Venomicon-Epilogue. We're also serviceable against various other Flying-types like Zapdos, Tornadus-Therian, and Corviknight, and aren't really threatened by Clefable, in part thanks to being neutral to Fire. Steel's various useful resists to Psychic, Fairy, and Dragon gives us the opportunity to come in on various Choice-locked mons like Tapu Lele's Psychic/Moonblast, Dragapult's Draco Meteor, and Zapdos-Galar's Brave Bird. As an added bonus, we're quite solid against some Meteor Beam users like Necrozma, Nihilego, and the rarer Celesteela, along with being generally okay against Pokemon like Weavile lacking Low Kick, Dragonite lacking Earthquake, and some Slowking-Galar.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

Our typing grants us immunity to the Toxic/Poison statuses and a Stealth Rock resistance. Being Rock-type also gives potential to be run alongside Sandstorm to gain the 50% Special Defense boost, which is helpful in letting us better deal with Pokemon like Dragapult or Tapu Koko.

What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?

Despite being 4x weak to Fighting, a +2 boost to our Defenses lets us tank Body Press from Pokemon like Ferrothorn or Corviknight even with uninvested bulk and mediocre 80/80 Defense stats. It also helps a lot against weaker physical Ground coverage like Astrolotl's Stomping Tantrum, and even a chance to survive Earthquake from some variants of Melmetal that lack full Attack investment, such as +SpDef Assault Vest.

+2 Defense also helps against strong STAB neutral attacks we may be tasked with absorbing, like Weavile's Knock Off, Pajantom's Spirit Shackle, and Victini's V-Create. +2 Defense and our low 80/80 bulk from before is also enough to barely dodge the OHKO from Melm's Choice Band Double Iron Bash, just to show how far the Defense boost can take us.

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?
&
How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?


I think Rock/Steel is a deceptively offensive typing. Unfortunately, our part-Steel typing doesn't help us in terms of getting past a lot of Rock's poor matchups. The best you could say is perhaps running Iron Head to fish for flinches, but that's not a guaranteed move nor a reliable strategy. Steel is mostly useful for providing us with a sizeable amount of chances to get ourselves into the field and force certain Pokemon out, letting us use our strong Rock STAB to deal damage, and potentially opening the door for a large swathe of useful coverage options we may not otherwise want access to with a stronger STAB combo.

For a Defensive angle, however, Rock/Steel can pressure a lot of Pokemon, especially Choice users, to go for some of their more awkward coverage options, like Focus Blast or Hydro Pump, or moves with exploitable shortcomings like Earthquake or Close Combat and their respective immunities. There might be ways we can take advantage of such scenarios: even something as simple as using Protect to scout their intentions or switching to a bulky Regen pivot to regain momentum. Diamond Storm can further this pressure if we get a boost or two, as it can turn OHKOs into 2HKOs and further restrict the opponent's options for dealing with us effectively.

However, I still feel this typing lends itself better to an Offensive archetype, using the unique attributes of its typing to get itself onto the field so it can start launching powerful attacks, and insulating it from taking too much chip from Stealth Rock or Toxic.
 
I'd like to submit Psychic/Normal.

  • What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
    • Similarly to what Quziel said, the Normal type provides a Ghost immunity, and if Dragapult or Blacephalon are locked in, will switch out and provide a free turn to try and proc a +2 defense boost. The Psychic type can help check and force out the somewhat fragile Lele, as well as provide a resistance to Future Sight in general.
  • Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
    • Though on one hand it only has two resistances, it only has two weaknesses as well. This helps preserve bulk to make use of the +2 and also limits opposing SE coverage moves to Bug and Dark. The Psychic type also has a nice offensive boost and priority-immunity with Psychic Terrain if you used Lele with it (though admittedly priority is physical and obv already helped by DS boost).
  • What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
    • Since U-Turn and Knock Off are two of the most common moves within Bug and Dark respectively, the defense boost would help alot against those relying on them to wear down CAP 31. And as its Psychic type would allow it to check Fightings, then the +2 helps since most Fightings are physical.
  • Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?
    • This would be more of an offensive mon with this typing, as it lacks resistances to Rock-weak types to be a defensive one. However, this mon is more interested in the +2 defense boost from DS than its damage, as it would more likely use one of its STABs or Fire/Ground coverage to achieve notable damage against non-Rock-weak mons.
  • How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise?
    • Psychic would threaten fightings and Pex that would come in on DS, while DS itself would hit a Weavile that might otherwise think there's a free turn into a Psychic move. Against one of the slowtwins, a Normal STAB could be an option to make progress, while in general I suppose Facade could be an option in case status occurs while trying to proc.
As an aside to all this, I'd mention that Stored Power is not good since +2 is not nearly enough of a stat boost to make SP base power passable, unless like there's some other stat boosting going on somehow.
 
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Rabia

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supporting Rock / Grass

I enjoy this typing because it's got really good offensive synergy between the two typings without resulting in too many common weaknesses. Although it relies heavily on neutralities given a lack of resistances, I think that's workable given Diamond Storm should help cover in most cases---foes like Landorus-T, Garchomp, and Venomicon-E would be fairly reliant on boosting to actually threaten us. Our STAB attacks would end up being stonewalled by foes like Melmetal, Magnezone, and Ferrothorn, and there could be some struggling against Toxapex pending coverage, but I don't view these as make-or-break issues.

1. As noted, Rock and Grass have pretty solid offensive synergy with each other. Our Grass-type attacks would threaten Ground-types and some other generically physically bulky foes like Slowbro, Tapu Fini, and Arghonaut. In return, Diamond Storm and this typing prevent Flying- and Fire-types like Astrolotl, Zapdos, and Tornadus-T from having a field day against us and potentially gives us more breathing room versus Weavile despite the Ice weakness.

2. The Leech Seed immunity is potentially interesting because of how good Ferrothorn is at the moment, but given our STAB attacks are easily walled by it, this doesn't help us in the one-on-one. It'd be useful instead for pivoting around Ferrothorn and denying it recovery.

3. Ice is the main one, potentially Fighting too depending on how relevant you consider Buzzwole and Blaziken to be. Steel is really limited to just Melmetal, which would still beat us down relatively easily I presume.

4. Both offensively and defensively in my view. As stated, we do have a fairly high amount of relevant neutralities to work with that a Diamond Storm boost would be really nice to buff: Venomicon-E's Brave Bird, Garchomp's Earthquake, and Pajantom's Spirit Shackle come to mind. However, as stated Grass and Rock have really solid offensive synergy too. This gives us many routes we could opt for going forward and doesn't lock us into any one specific direction, but I'd still imagine us trending more defensive because Rock and Grass on their own aren't amazing offensive types.

5. I think I've answered this question already xd
 
I would like to suggest Rock/Ghost, a type combination that not only would be a unique typing but also adds some interesting properties to CAP31 (for better or for worse)

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
Having an immunity to Fighting would be a large boon given the Fighting type's large preference to Physical attacks - and even if Odor Sleuth is used to get rid of that immunity, that's one more turn to increase Defense or otherwise deal with the threat. A double resistance to Poison isn't bad either.
EDIT: Huh. The one move I didn't check if it was in Gen 8, of course Uh well yeah that's just a permanent Fighting Immunity then, cool. At least it'll be good to consider for if it comes back in the future.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
The Ghost type is immune to being Trapped or Binded - a large boon to guarantee switch-out against dangerous counters to CAP 31. Furthermore, Ghost type moves tend to be Physical - the same type of move that most Rock type moves are, including Diamond Storm, meaning that you don't have to worry about your Sp.Atk stat.

What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
Out of the 6 weaknesses this typing has, half tend to prioritise Physical stats rather than special (Ground, Steel, Dark) and the other half (Grass, Water, Ghost) not really having a clear preference in terms of average stats (although the only type out of these 6 to have a higher Sp.Atk within the statistical average is Ghost)

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?
Most definitely leaning more defensively than, say, pure offense or 50/50 - with the most common of its weaknesses being Physical, CAP31 definitely will benefit from raising it's defense.

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?
Ghost is tied for least resisted type alongside Dragon - one type resists Ghost and another is immune. Unlike Dragon, this resisted type is not shared with Rock (Dark rather than Steel), meaning that no type resists a STAB move from this 'mon. Furthermore, this type is a boon to counter Trick Room, a move which would most likely be used to prevent Diamond Storm Defense set-up: the four most common Pokémon types of those that learn Trick Room are Psychic, Ghost, Normal and Fairy - the first two types Ghost is Super effective against, Normal types can't affect Ghost, and unlike the Dark type which would be a similar pick to counter the first two types Ghost is not weak to Fairy.
On another note, with 2 type coverage moves there would have a supereffective move for 13 of the 18 types by adding either Fighting & Ice, Ground & Ice, or Ground & Fairy moves to the movepool - Ground and Fighting mainly having more Physical moves to pick from, while Ice and Fairy have more Special than Physical moves.
 
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Time to throw my hat in the ring.
As I’ve pointed out, I believe, that Diamond Storm will be successfully used in two situations.
Either we have the ability to beat Toxapex:Toxapex: and Arghonaut:Arghonaut:, which easily switch in on Diamond Storm and Haze or ignore any boosts, so we can use Rock types great properties for wall breaking or we leverage Diamond Storm ms ability to deter offensive Pokémon and position CAP 31 as an anti offense mon.
The first Type I want to bring up is Rock/Fairy, which would fall into the second category. OMG ITS DIANCIE AGAIN!
What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
Rock/Fairy keeps all the valuable resists of Rock type and is able to come in on Fire and Flying type moves. The Fairy typing adds a incredibly valuable resist in dark, an immunity to dragon and removes the weakness to fighting
In general this typing is geared towards handling some very potent offensive mons like Choice Locked Dragapult:Dragapult:, Weavile:Weavile:,Tornadus:Tornadus-Therian:and other defensive Flying types, Goltres:Moltres Galar:, Ebook:Venomicon-Epilogue:, Volcarona:Volcarona:, Astrolotl:Astrolotl:, Victini:Victini:and Hawlucha:Hawlucha:.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
It resists Knock Off and Uturn is immune to Dragon and gets boosted by Sand Storm.
What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
It’s weakness to Ground stands out here, as well as being able to make the electric, ice and fighting neutral matchups a resist.
Patching the ground weakness is great in the Lando:Landorus-Therian:Matchup but also against Garchomp:Garchomp:and Colossoil:Colossoil:,which now actively lose.
Ice is obviously cool for Weavile:Weavile:, although we rarely will see a situation were we are at +2 with it coming in. Electric is incredibly interesting for the Zera:Zeraora:Matchup as it effectively hampers its ability to revenge CAP31.
Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?
I think the first question here is left fairly open. Obviously a strong STAB will be used offensively but the defensive boost is still very important to deny offensive mons a way in.
Coverage wise this type helps dealing with fighting types that can come in on Diamond Storm, which is especially nice for the Rapidfu:Urshifu: and Argho:Arghonaut: matchup, but also helps with the aforementioned ground types and Gapdos:Zapdos Galar:. It leaves CAP31 fairly passive to Steel types and Toxapex:Toxapex:, but this can be patched up with coverage pretty easily and I now believe that losing to (some) defensive mons 1v1 isn’t a big issue, so long as you can bring other value to the Team.


The Second Type I want to suggest is Grass/Ground, which would fall in the first category.
What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
In general this typing doesn’t offer a lot defensively it has a workable electric type matchup, which is nice for a ground type, it has potential to switch into most Ground types, without much fear and resisting rock means it both will have relative item freedom and can be used to deal with Rock Spam teams.
What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
It’s weakness to fire (especially relevant for Astro) is one that can be patched up, as well as it’s flying type weakness, which is especially cool. Other than that it’s actually better at improving on its good amount of neutral matchups with a boost, which is especially relevant for fighting, steel and less so grass

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?
It’s definitely used for its offensive properties with the effect being a nice bonus.
Diamond Storm rounds out the two STABs to give CAP31 an insane amount of Super Effective hits against the meta.
It effectively deters Flying, Fire and Ice types from switching in carelessly, which would love to answer a grass ground and has the ability to tilt the matchup in CAP31s favor with a defense boost.
Additionally Grass offers several very synergistic move options, that pair well with Diamond Storm.
 

Brambane

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I like a lot of the typings in the thread so far. I was looking at type combinations and really honed in a couple key points I want hone in on as considering the different options:

1. A solid array of resists alongside important neutralities to take advantage of Diamond Storm's defensive pressure
2. Reason to run Diamond Storm, one being STAB, the other not necessarily "coverage", but a specific relevant target in the metagame that Diamond Storm is good against
3. If not using Diamond Storm as STAB, a typing with a complimentary STAB

The first point was a tough one, especially when looking at Rock as a typing. The key resists that Rock brings to the table are definitely Flying and Fire. I really like how Electric/Rock for example resists basically all of Zapdos. However, the typings four weaknesses and somewhat awkward STAB combination leaves something to be desired. But the Electric STAB for hitting bulky Waters is excellent! I also really like Rock/Fire, since it is immense offensive synergy and the Fairy/Ice resist is strong. It's also immune to burn, a notable boon for a physical attacker. But the defensive potential seems very dependent on an immunity ability, which doesn't feel perfect either. So, what if we combined the best traits of both types?

Electric/Fire offers fantastic offensive synergy. The Fire STAB hits the bulky Steel-types like Melmetal, Equilibra and Ferrothorn. Electric hammers Toxapex, Slowbro, Tapu Fini, and is good neutral damage into the likes of Heatran. But the real appeal of the typing is its resistances. Electric/Fire boasts a whopping 8 resists with only 3 weaknesses. But the number of resists are less important than the quality of them. Fire, Flying, Fairy, Steel, Grass, Ice, and Electric are all excellent resists in the current metagame. Unlike Rock/Electric, you are neutral to Fighting; a massive advantage against Zeraora. The weaknesses are somewhat painful, but they are remarkably similar to another Fire-type defensive juggernaut, Heatran, which shows the power of key resists over a few weaknesses, even if it's a 4x Ground one..

The typing is also immune to burn and paralysis. If we are going for a more offensive lean down the line, being immune to these two statuses out of the gate is a massive advantage.

The typing has good reason to run Diamond Storm. Fire and Electric have pretty good coverage together, as Zapdos has shown us. But its painfully vulnerable to Astrolotl, which is a Pokemon that happily exploits free switches and turns. It hits Dragonite which is nice. Diamond Storm is also still pretty good into Zapdos and Pyroak compared to the STAB options. But the biggest reason Electric/Fire would run Diamond Storm is for Electric/Fire. Considering we are trying to make a viable product for the metagame, CAP31 shoul see significant usage. Using Diamond Storm for Astrolotl and other CAP3, in addition to being a value click when you can afford it for the bonus Defense, is enough to support Electric/Fire.

The offensive potential does have its limitations though. Garchomp and Gastrodon emerge as naturally good answers into Fire/Electric/Rock coverage. Having some innately obvious counters out the gate is kind of nice, especially a more niche one like Gastrodon combined with the more common Chomper.

so yeah, Electric/Fire
 

ausma

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Hi all, somewhat like my original discussion post suggested, I'd like to submit Rock/Ground.

As stated originally, I believe STAB Diamond Storm will open many natural options for CAP 31, giving it a natural threat factor with its Diamond Storm (especially so it's not just wasted PP against Corviknight) and playing to Rock-type's unique resistances in Fire- and Flying-type moves to more consistently check threats like Tornadus-T and Heatran. Particularly, though, I think natural threat factor off of Diamond Storm is also just as important considering the move's natural strength and highly powerful secondary effect giving it a consistent, powerful option against Pokemon it might otherwise have a more troubled matchup against, which could easily encourage both defensive and offensive roles, and a more practical kick against offensive checks. The reason I am in favor of Rock/Ground here specifically over mono Ground- is because it provides the team with an Electric-type immunity much like the other Ground-type submissions, but also plays to the Rock-type's genuinely useful resistances and is offensively the most effective in tandem with Rock-type STAB which gives it the ability to have less potential passivity against Ground-immune Diamond Storm pivots and actually not make Diamond Storm dead weight into things like Corviknight. This is also what gives it a unique outline and gameplan as opposed to mono Ground-.

However, most interestingly, it also raises a very interesting set of questions with its glaring weaknesses in mind, letting us explore caveats like:
- Why most of its users have been historically mediocre and generally lower on the tiering rung
- How we could play to its genuinely superb strengths in this format in spite of its crippling weaknesses to common types
- How Diamond Storm interacts with these common weaknesses and its sheer strength in and of itself, alongside the defense boost, could naturally let its incredible offensive profile shine

I also personally think this angle is incredibly interesting and has a lot of room to create for really dynamic stat and ability slates given the above.

So then, onto the questions!

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?

With Diamond Storm specifically, this type mostly provides benefits through leveraging it turns to actually use the move in the first place. Being Electric-immune and Flying-resistant, for example, is fantastic for letting it not only switch into the tier's birds, but then follow up with a STAB, super effective Rock-move. You achieve a similar interaction with Venomicon too, albeit to a lesser extent due to Tinted Lens.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

On top of the always-nice Stealth Rock resistance letting it care generally less about them, being immune to Electric- means being immune to Thunder Wave, which is particularly of note if a Rock/Ground CAP wants to play to a more offensive role with a serviceable Speed tier.

What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?

Rock/Ground has a x2 weakness to Steel-, Fighting- and Ground-, which are all types with predominantly physical interactions that Diamond Storm's boosts can greatly improve CAP 31's matchup against by potentially giving it the ability to threaten a trade by using its bolstered bulk, with the only real exception to this being Urshifu-R. Landorus-T is a pretty major one, and as a Ground-type in of itself, Rock/Ground CAP 31 would greatly benefit from Landorus-T's own removal from the game if it is forced to take repeated Diamond Storm chip. Being able to potentially tank Melmetal's DIB and Kartana's Smart Strike is also particularly relevant, and having the ability to then threaten with damage could be game-changing. x2 Defense also makes it extremely difficult for super effective coverage to be a way to revenge kill it, being of particular note for threats lIke Zeraora which would otherwise be able to revenge kill it with Close Combat, or potential users of Earthquake for coverage.

Obviously Diamond Storm's defense boosts are massively beneficial in these matchups, but what I think is really huge is that Rock/Ground is not reliant on these boosts to actively threaten them due to how blatantly powerful having a Ground-STAB really is. It obviously can threaten to punch major holes in things like Melmetal, Sacred Sword Kartana, and Urshifu-R attempting to get gutsy on a Diamond Storm only to take severe damage from Earthquake, and the other way around. Diamond Storm is highlighted best here as, by itself, a very versatile and powerful offensive tool, with a relevant eye toward how its secondary effect can influence some matchups.

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

That's something huge I love about this type: it could go, very easily, both ways here. The defense boosts are immensely practical in covering several weak points that could be reasonably exploited by the tier's physical attackers and even helping it win in the 1v1 against them as stated above, or use the threat of a defense boost as a mechanism to make more progress through status and hazards. However I also think there's a lot of fun room to think about this combination offensively too considering that STAB Diamond Storm is in of itself highly difficult to play around, and, obviously, EdgeQuake go brrrnt.

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?

To put it nicely, EdgeQuake has its namesake for a reason. Ground-, offensively, is a near perfect complement to a STAB Diamond Storm considering that it super effectively, or neutrally, pressures any of Diamond Storm's natural checks, and vice versa. While not apart of this question, Being STAB, offensively, I believe is particularly relevant as it gives CAP 31 a way to actually make Corviknight think twice about coming in on Diamond Storm to PP stall it, but it also gives it more kick against Landorus-T and let it more reliably wear it down, especially in tandem with defense boosts.
 
I'd like to submit Bug/Rock typing. I mentioned this typing in one of my first posts here, and I think that this typing carries a lot of merits for a Diamond Storm user. Firstly, STAB, not gonna beat the dead horse further. Secondly, Rock complements Bug offensively by Rock hitting Bug's resisted Flying and Fire-types. Thirdly, Bug complements Rock defensively by providing Ground, Grass, and Fighting neutralities, at a cost of gaining Flying and Fire neutralities. This leaves us only weak to Water, Rock, and Steel. Steel and Rock are uncommon physical attacking types in the first place, and they will be mitigated by Diamond Storm. Water-types will generally force us out anyway due to Scald. The main downsides of this typing is that it has a Rock weakness, which might dictate HDB or hazard removal, and that it only has a neutrality to Flying-types, one of the main targets of Diamond Storm. I like this typing because it really tries to lean into the secondary effect of Diamond Storm while capitalizing on STAB.

I think two other GREAT typings are
Rock/Ghost and Rock/Electric. These typings both do similar things, but in different ways. Ghost gives a Fighting immunity, good neutral coverage, a handy U-turn resistance, and in return we only receive a Knock-Off and Ghost weakness. Most Ghosts are special, so this wouldn't be a huge deal anyway. The Knock weakness, while it hurts, is only one weakness. The dividends from reduced pressure by physical attacks will allow Diamond Storm boosts to accumulate easily and allow CAP31 to stay in and use maintained boosts. For a "proof of concept" of the offensive/defensive merits of this typing, see BW FlashCAP Petrogeist. Rock/Electric double resists Flying, hits bulky Waters with SE STAB, provides a Steel neutrality, paralysis immunity, and Electric resistance, in return doubling the Ground weakness. This typing really leans into the offensive breaker mindset, forcing in mons like Lando and Chomp to wear them down and then take them out, or allowing a teammate to do it. I could see a set similar to Balloon Frog working really well here, allowing CAP31 to possibly get a boost off while they pop the balloon and either force them out or KO them. Either way, I think both of these typings, while looking at the different merits of Diamond Storm, both offer unique options to our metagame.
 
Normal or Normal + electric/Bug

Normal
: Immunity to ghost, weak against fighting, and neutrality to the rest of types. Diamond Storm will increase its resilience against fighting types (which are usually physical)

The new Cap mon could easily use DS offensively and defensively if it has Normal as one of its types.

Defensively: Some of the best utility moves in the game are normal type. Im not allowed to explicitaly say the moves, but if you check the normal type movepool of pokes like chansey, porygon, and Cinderace [CC], you will notice its power.

Offensively:
Normal typing has multiple spammable special moves with high PP and BP that could break common defensive mons like quagsire, toxapex, clefable, and argonaught.

I really like the idea of a Normal type because that is something that CAP does not have yet. We already have Stratagem. There is no need for another rock type. Conversely, good normal types are scarce or too passive/boring.
 
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quziel

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Doing a short review to sorta help dex justify whatever he wants ot put on the slate. Also to try to persuade others that my brand of weird typings are the correct ones.

Submitting Electric/Dark
This is obviously a very solid defensive typing, and has been subbed fairly frequently in the past projects. Personal issue is that I don't really see the need to run Diamond Storm. While its a useful tech option to catch Lotl on the switch (or if we're faster), I don't know if it makes it onto >75% of sets without heavily restricting movepool or giving it one of a very select few abilities.

Submitting Rock/Flying
Frankly speaking, this is the best Rock typing defensively when looking at matchups the typing gives you essentially for free. We're a very solid in on Lando, Heatran, Torn, all S or near S rank mons, and while the offensive coverage isn't astounding, it still has good synergy, with Dstorm nuking Zapdos, and Flying nuking Shifu/Argh. I expect this to be a front runner and for good reason.

Ground / Fighting:
This is a fairly solid offensive typing, has an instant defensive in (specifically on Zera), and has a compelling reason to run Dstorm (Flying types). I do think its overall a worse typing (concept wise) than Pure Ground, which comes later, but this could work. Primary reason I find pure ground to be more interesting is that this effectively forces 3 offensive moves onto our set, and the latter doesn't.

Subbing Mono Ground
There's a ground type on every single team, and this is a Ground type. Diamond Storm will be run on every single set by virtue of covering our issues with Flying types. There is a lack of resists beyond the elec immune, but this is a strong contender, and is quite concept relevant without restricting our options much.

Submitting Ground/Fairy
Very similar to the above two. This one is a near perfect counter to Zeraora until it runs Grass Knot. Great Stab combo that's made a bit better by the addition of Diamond Storm. Main worry is that with Zone support we might just decide we can drop Dstorm.

Submitting Fighting/Steel
I'll be frank, I worry that this typing would drop Dstorm. Dstorm does not cover the major offensive issues this typing has (slowbro and pex), and the stab combo isn't half bad by itself.

Gonna submit Rock/Grass here
This typing makes very good use of Diamond Storm, with the secondary nailing Slowbro, Hippo, Argh for it (not a ton else), and also blocks Leech from Ferro, which is otherwise a fairly horrid matchup. This typing is definitely operating under the assumption that a lack of weaknesses can make up for a lack of resists, cause it really struggles to get an in on much out of typing alone, only resisting electric (zera can cc), and normal (chromera is the only mon that runs normal atm). I do think its a fairly valid typing, but the complete lack of resists does scare me compared to other options.

I would like to submit Mono - Fighting.
This is weirdly similar to the above. There's legit very few relevant resists here beyond hoping you don't get Axel'd by Weavile. That said, its also similarly a great user of Dstorm, cause Fighting-types love anything that an hit Flying-types. I have a minor worry about our Pex matchup, but like, we still have stats, ability, and movepool to cover that so its prolly fine.

I am in support of a Rock/Electric typing.
This typing covers a very relevant issue that Dstorm faces, that is, how do we matchup into regen Waters, and the answer is hitting them with a STAB electric move. It also offers a surprisingly effective defensive profile, letting the CAP eat Venom-E, Zapdos, Torn, and well, honest not that much more for breakfast. There's definitely room in the meta for a mon that is very effective at switch into and punishing that list of Flying-types though, given how strong they are atm, though it does risk being overspecialized, as the 4x ground weakness takes a few matchups you'd normally win/do ok in (Heatran, Venomp), and completely dumpsters them. Overall a strong option, though potentially focusing too hard on the Pex/Flying matchups.

I propose Bug/Electric.
Dstorm helps vs Astro here, and to a lesser extent Dragapult, Pajantom, and Landorus, but I do again worry that the mon might just drop Dstorm if it can have proper team support into those threats.

Yo, I'm subbing Grass/Fighting.
This typing is another that has a very solid reason to run Diamond Storm (again flying types), has a reasonably good defensive profile (though a tad more limited than I'd like given the losing matchup into Koko), and yeah, its overall a somewhat solid choice. I generally am pretty happy with most Grass-types for this concept, as they have a very solid reason to run Dstorm, and offer unique resists, though I don't know yet where this ranks among them for me.

For me I think Rock/Water will be a nice way for cap 31 to go.
Great stab combo here, workable defenses (getting neutrality into Surging Strikes is potentially relevant), though losing any chance of the Zapdos switchin really, really sucks. I've rated a lot of typings so far, so this is gonna be a tad short, but yeah, fairly solid typing, would be very ok with seeing it make slate.

I'd like to submit Psychic/Normal.
Another typing where I don't know if we have enough reason to run Diamond Storm over other options. The main benefit I can think of is hitting Moltres-Galar, and while that mon is good, I don't know if its good enough to dedicate a whole moveslot to barring heavily synergistic ability choice.

The first Type I want to bring up is Rock/Fairy, which would fall into the second category. OMG ITS DIANCIE AGAIN!

The Second Type I want to suggest is Grass/Ground, which would fall in the first category.
Rock/Fairy seems unlikely to win votes if slated because its too similar to Diancie. Its a solid choice for the move, but really the comparison to Diancie doesn't leave me excited.

Grass/Ground is another Grass-type. I generally like those, and this one again offers great 3 move coverage with Diamond Storm, has a solid reason to run it (Flying types), and has a unique defensive profile (we demolish Zeraora forever). This is a solid choice.

so yeah, Electric/Fire
I fear that we would drop Dstorm fairly quickly if we give it any of a large number of coverage or utility moves. While nailing Astro is forever a public good, that's really all that Dstorm offers this typing unless I'm missing something, and I don't know if that's enough to get a 75% of the time slot.

Hi all, somewhat like my original discussion post suggested, I'd like to submit Rock/Ground.
I rather like this typing. While it has a lot of very prevalent downsides (if Slowbro or Pex manages to get in unscathed we have to leave the State, also Ground weak to Zera), the offensive upsides it has cannot be overstated. STAB EdgeQuake instantly makes you an effective wallbreaker (look at CB Rhyp this gen), you are a near perfect switchin to Zapdos, Torn, and to a lesser extent Heatran/Volc/Vict/Koko/sorta Astro, and it can fulfill the mandatory ground-type slot on teams. Overall a strong contender.

I'd like to submit Bug/Rock typing.
I worry that this typing simply does not offer enough resists to get in, and unlike Rock/Grass it also doesn't have wide offensive coverage.

Normal or Normal + electric/Bug
I worry that normal is a bit redundant with Rock coverage without STAB. Granted I may also be biased as I submitted Rock/Normal.

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Also submitting Rock / Fire

  1. What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
Honest that's not fully what this typing is about. Ice and Fairy are the big ones here, and let you make Weavile hate life a bit more, and also wall the rare CM clef, even if CM Fini dumpsters you.
  1. Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
Burn Immunity is the huge one here, its hard to actualize, given that we fold instantly to Scald, and Lotl can Tantrum vs us, but when its useful its very useful.
  1. What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
We can use Dstorm to tank very weak Ground-moves, eg Lotl's Tantrum (potentially), as well as Body Press hits (Choiced Fighting moves are impossible to tank ngl even post boost cause Shifu/Gapdos are so strong).
  1. Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?
This is an incredibly offensively geared typing. That said, the coverage between Dstorm + Fire is pretty impeccable, and trying to answer that combo without quite literally Arghonaut, Garchomp, or Shifu-RS is incredibly difficult. The amazingness of the stab combo here is what is going to buy us space to focus on more defensive aspects; having 2 slots open gives us a lot of design space compared to other options.
  1. How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?
This hits literally every single Dstorm resist except Shifu-RS, Garchomp, and Arghonaut SE or Neutrally. Demolishing Steel-types is the main benefit here, and one we will utilize in a lot of matchups.

This is a truck of a typing, and one that trades in 2 very common 4x weaknesses for heavy offensive power using only stabs. The extra design space that implies is something will help us making the mon.
 
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Gonna submit something else since I'm starting to come around to Electric/Dark not being great and essentially a worse version of Electric/Rock (which btw is one of my current favorites)

Submitting Normal/Ground

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?


It has immunities to Ghost and Electric, which are both popular attacking types in the current meta, even if Ghost is only ran as STAB. It resists Rock too which is cool in a Meteor Beam meta.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

It is immune to Thunder Wave and resists Stealth Rock, though the latter comes in handy more. It also lacks any 4x weaknesses.

What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?

It really appreciates Diamond Storm helping it against Weavile's Icicle Crash, Kartana's Leaf Blade & Sacred Sword, Pajantom's Outrage, Zeraora's Close Combat, and Urshifu-Rapid-Strike's Aqua Jet mainly.

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

I think this could be either, though I'd lean a little more offensively as Ground is known for being a good offensive typing, but this is not terrible defensively either.

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise?

EdgeQuake. Do I need to say anything else here? Diamond Storm hits Ground-immune Pokemon such as Tornadus-Therian, Venomicon, Zapdos, and Dragonite for super-effective damage, and Ground hits Toxapex, Melmetal, and Magnezone for super-effective damage. Normal is not as good of an offensive typing as Dark, it hits nothing super-effectively, and its strongest physical option in Double-Edge is a recoil move. I guess there's a risk of Body Slam being preferred over Diamond Storm, but I don't think not giving it that one move isn't a huge restriction on the process.
 
If I may make a second typing submission, one more non-rock typing I have submitted that I've been thinking quite a bit about is similar to my first submission. Mono Grass. This is a typing that plays into a bit more of a high risk game with our weaknesses, but is the single monotype that synergizes best Rock coverage.

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?

The key resists we have here are to Ground and Electric, as well as a noteable resist to Water that we can leverage as well. However like I said in the intro, this is a high risk typing, as it has 3 major weaknesses that we discussed wanting to resist. Namely, Flying, Fire, and Ice. However, all 3 of those are merely 2x weaknesses, and the Flying weakness can be mitigated by Diamond Storm's defense boost. However, I think this typing is very interesting because of the answer to another question, and how that relates to these weaknesses...

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise?

Perfectly. 100% of the typings that Rock is super effective against, are super effective against Grass. If any Flying, Fire, or Ice (or Bug for completion sake) Pokemon think they can rely on STAB to threaten us, they have to risk coming in on our coverage move in Diamond Storm. Likewise, Grass helps cover bulky Waters and Grounds that Rock traditionally falters against without any of the weaknesses of having a defensive Rock typing. Just about the only Pokemon that can switch in on us are Steel types and Syclant, a downside that I think is worth the value this typing brings considering it is common to most of the submissions here. Assuming we bring Grass STAB however, this leaves us with a ton of options for the rest of the process and especially in Movepool, as we aren't limiting our movepool to STAB1/STAB2/Diamond Storm, giving us minimum two slots to work with and help develop another role, be it tanky, utility, clerical, revenge, sweeper, etc etc.

Overall, this monotype covers good ground, emphasizes Diamond Storm well, and leaves us with a ton of space to explore each of the remaining stages of the process by giving ourselves a very wide field of choices that we can continue to go down. When it comes to mono types, I think that Grass is the best choice for this particular forbidden fruit.

For some thoughts on some other typings. Green is for typings I like, Red is for those I dislike.
- Rock/Flying is probably one of the best defensive Rock typings we can take. Three valuable resistances without any critical 4x weaknesses that Rock typings usually bring about (such as Rock/Ground, Rock/Steel, or Rock/Fairy) gives us a good few switch in opprotunities as well as allowing our Diamond Storm boosts to play an impact in mitigating weaknesses or patching up neutralities. I think this is a very solid Rock choice.

- Rock/Electric I feel covers some of our typing assessment from the start of this discussion well. It provides some very valuable defensive switch ins against Flying, Fire, and Electric moves, including a rare safe switch against Venomicon Brave Bird, and allows us to threaten both Bulky Waters and Steel Birds without having to trade our Rock STAB, something that is missing from every other Electric typing. This is also the only Electric typing I like because it still gives us a reason to use Diamond Storm, while for others like Electric/Dark or Bug/Electric, I think we will just simply never use the move in place of our potent Electric STAB, especially as both Dark and Bug can cover Electric's weaknesses about as well as Rock could ever hope for.

- Grass/Fighting is a fantastic non-Rock typing. It has all of the same defensive strengths and weaknesses as Mono Grass, but has a Fighting STAB attatched that helps us defend against the trio of Knock/U Turn/Stealth Rock, which are nice bonuses. We are not sacrificing any of our defensive merits to go for this, we are only benefiting, especially as Diamond Storm pairs very well with both STABs and lets it hit Flying types SE. My only problem is that I don't think it optimizes use of Diamond Storm as much as mono grass, and is instead just giving us an early bonus in the Fighting STAB and those few bonus resistances in exchange for what could instead be a stronger ability, better stats, or less restrictive movepool. Either way, among all the other submissions, this is my favourite non-Rock typing.

- I also want to point at Rock/Water and Rock/Ghost as two other solid choices for their defensive merits, and Water or Ghost being very good offensive complements to Diamond Storm STAB.

- To contrast, a few typings I do not like, aside from those bolded red above, are Psychic/Normal, and Danny7's Normal, Normal/Electric, or Normal/Bug typings. None of these complement Diamond Storm well, and I do not think we will have any usage of Diamond Storm if we take these typings and don't severely encourage its usage through a scuffed movepool or an overly targetted ability. Rock pairs poorly with Normal offensively as it cannot take advantage of its neutral coverage since both fail to target Steels. Plus, all of them have defensive faults as well, not really helping with a strong offensive foothold and giving us next to no switch ins. Among these Normal types, only Normal/Electric has a viable resist in Electric.

- To a lesser extent, I also am not big on Rock/Normal for our typing. While this combo would use Diamond Storm by default because of its STAB, it still gets walled hard by Steel types without any meaningful defensive boons, and it tacks on an extra Fighting 4x weakness that we would prefer to avoid.

- Finally, I think Electric/Fire is looking at our questions in the wrong way. This is a phenomenal typing that resists Flying, Fire, Ice, Electric, and Steel, while also giving us a very potent SE STAB against bulky waters, Steel Birds, and generally any other Steel types. The problem is that it will never use Diamond Storm. Electric/Fire is such a powerful STAB combo, the only Pokemon that it would ever use Diamond Storm against are Astrolotl and maybe Dragapult or Landorus. This would require us to be very careful with our movepool, and to not create a utility niche that would forgo Diamond Storm entirely, or not give it any useful alternative options to pair with Electric/Fire that would target those Dragons (trying to not be poll jumpy, but this makes discussion on Dark, Ice, or really any coverage type that isn't Grass dangerous.)
 
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Submitting Rock/Dragon.

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?

Rock/Dragon offers us resistances to four of the most potent offensive types in the metagame, those being Flying, Fire, Poison, and Electric. Attackers of these types in the CAP metagame tend to be special as well, giving CAP 31 a safer cushion against Pokemon like Tornadus-T, Zapdos, Tapu Koko, Blacephalon, Pyroak, Slowking-G, and Venomicon that don't really worry about Diamond Storm's secondary effect.

What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
Rock/Dragon REALLY loves the Defense raise from Diamond Storm, as it allows us to tank Weavile's Icicle Crash, Melmetal's Double Iron Bash, Fighting STAB from mons like Urshifu-R, Zapdos-G, and Revenankh, Ground STAB from mons like Lando-T, Garchomp, and Colossoil, and even physical Dragon STAB from the aforementioned Garchomp as well as Dragonite. Put shortly, Diamond Storm helps to eliminate all but one of this type's weaknesses.

Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

This typing uses Diamond Storm in a more defensive manner, with it patching up a lot of the typing's weaknesses as stated above, as well as solidifying its resistances for physical attackers like Venomicon-E and Zeraora.

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise?
Dragon STAB hits prominent Rock resists like Garchomp, Urshifu-R, Arghonaut, and Colossoil for neutral damage, as well as being able to help deal with one of the biggest threats in the tier in Dragapult, while Diamond Storm hits the Tapus while still doing good damage to prominent neutral targets like Lando-T and Zapdos-G.
 
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Typings I think are cool:

Grass/Ground is absolutely my favorite non-rock typing. It would definitely run Diamond Storm on every set because it's so reliant on it to hit almost any flying-type in the meta, and it has STAB coverage for would-be roadblocks like Pex, Argh, and Bro, as well as fat steels like Melmetal, which is important for being able to fully explore the strengths of Diamond Storm. Absolutely one of our best choices.

Mono-Ground is surprisingly cool. It would absolutely run Diamond Storm, it has beautiful moveset compression due to going really far with just edgequake coverage, and it doesn't come with some of the nasty quad-weaknesses and fighting weakness that Rock/Ground has (so we can remain a good check to Zeraora for example). The simplicity of this typing is quite appealing to me and it's one of my top choices.

Rock/Electric is surprisingly cool. Rock STAB is really valuable for us, and again this has STAB coverage for roadblocks. Terrible physical electric STABs and a bad ground weakness are the major cons of this typing, but I absolutely think we can work around them. Resisting ebook brave bird is funny weewoo

Rock/Flying is sick for its defensive and offensive merits. Its main weakness is difficulty breaking through fat steels and things like Pex, but it's still incredibly solid.

Rock/Normal is badass. Let's get it.
 
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Just wanted to echo support for Rock/Fire, the quad weaknesses may seem scary but the insane offensive presence generated by Rock/Fire STAB, as well as burn immunity, U-Turn resistance, and Fairy+Ice resistance has a lot of potential. As Quziel mentioned the typing's weaknesses also opens up quite a lot of design space to give 31 some powerful tools in the future.
 

dex

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I've been super impressed with the submissions so far and I couldn't be happier with how this stage is going! I want to give a 48 hour warning now for submissions. Submissions are still open, so don't feel too rushed to get them in! I really am interested in hearing which types y'all like and dislike. Review posts like what quziel did are immensely helpful in my decision making. Happy posting!

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Really not feeling any of the Electric typings barring Rock/Electric, which even that I've begun to sour on. Electric mons in general are just not pre-disposed to using Rock coverage given the primary thing they both do, deal with Flyings, is done better by Electric as a whole. Rock/Electric is the only one of these typings I could see actually using Dstorm since it gets STAB off of it, but it doesn't inspire joy really. The quad resistance to Flying is cool but weighed down by the Ground weakness and general lack of other super useful resists to make use of Dstorms effect.

Of the Rock typings subbed so far I quite like Rock/Flying, Rock/Ground and Rock/Grass in that order. Rock/Flying has the best defensive profile of any other Rock pairing brought up which gives it actual value in the builder and an above average chance of leveraging Dstorms boosts in a meaningful way. Rock/Ground and Rock/Grass I like more so for their offensive palettes, though Ground does give a fair amount of intrinsic value defense wise as well. Rock/Grass's near perfect STAB overlap is very cool and should be the primary direction of this typing as it's set of resistances is frustratingly shallow ala something like Pyroak. Other Rock typings subbed I'm less keen on but not for any particular reason, I just think they fail to create quite as intriguing a product as these three could.

Ground typings are definitely my favorite this go around. As previously mentioned Rock/Ground is super solid offensively while maintaining value in the builder. Ground/Fighting is very sick, my second favorite after my own sub and imo is probably the non-Rock typing with the least chance of ever dropping Dstorm, the value it brings to the table with its STABs is unreal.

Speaking of my own sub I'll just take a quick second to defend concerns around Ground/Fairy, I definitely agree with the assessment snake came to regarding the value of Dstorm for this typing. It's not as immediately obvious or as statistically important on say something like Ground/Fighting so there's worry that Dstorm could go unused (quz also mentions this), but the way I see it is Ground/Fairy is sort of an in-between on the "is Diamond Storm actually worth it?" scale. It has enough good matchups vs problem mons like Torn, Book(s) etc. that it's not as ready to be dropped as say one of the Electric typings that has little reason to use Rock coverage over it's STAB. We've also only just started into this project so it's not like there aren't ways of incentivizing Diamond Storms use regardless going forward.

Also the Normal-typings are hilarious. Feels so weird to be doing a CAP project and the endless conga line of Normal subs actually have some cool value for once. Think I like Ground/Normal the most from those.
 

Zephyri

clandestine meetings and longing stares
is a Top Artistis a Forum Moderator
Moderator
hi, want to echo support for Rock/Grass and Ground/Grass and explain why I think Rock/Electric is pretty awful.

The main draw of Grass types to me is the offensive synergy with Diamond Storm; I think the fact that you beat (most) bulky waters with Grass (which, in my opinion, are Diamond Storm's biggest problem) and beat birds that Grass STAB struggles with Rock is immensely cool to me. Rock/Grass specifically has the unique quality of compressing "beats most bulky waters+doesn't insta lose to lando+has a workable MU vs birds", and I think all of those qualities are super important in making sure we can use Diamond Storm effectively; no other type combo really has all of those things though, atleast to the extent that Rock/Grass does. I will admit Rock/Grass has a pretty bare set of resists, but I think the wide range of neutralities does give us design space where we can take advantage of certain neutral type MUs with stats/abilities; there are ways we can avoid Roak syndrome.

Ground/Grass is v similar to Rock/Grass except you trade Rock STAB and a flying neutrality for a Ground resist, the ability to beat Pex on virtue of its STABS, and a way better Zera MU (and a volt immunity in general). The Zera matchup is super important; most grounds in the current metagame just lose to Zera, so having a better matchup versus it is bound to give it a place on teams. There's also the fact that Ground/Grass/Rock coverage is just insanely clean offensively; think the only Pokemon that can actively switch into it are like Corv/Libra/Ferro. I am a little less supportive of this combo because of the bird weakness versus the neutrality offered by Rock Grass, but opting to pressure birds instead of switching into them is definitely a viable route for us to take.

Rock/Electric is a pretty dogshit type combo in my opinion. Rock and Electric have offensive redundancy in how both of them beat birds and lose to ground. The intention behind Rock/Electric, is, I presume, to beat bulky waters with Electric STABs... but you can't even effectively switch into bulky waters, so all you do is pressure them. The Electric tradeoff is the ability to beat bulky waters and some admittedly cool defensive utility in exchange for an insanely prevalent ground weakness; you still aren't guaranteed to beat steels, and you still have huge offensive redundancies. Coupled with the fact that non-sig Electric physical moves is awful, I don't think that tradeoff is worth it, especially considering Grass types also have the ability to help vs bulky waters.

---------------------------------

A more general opinion about the submitted typing combos and commentary on them: I don't think it's that important to beat steels with our typings. The most common Steels in the current metagame have unreliable recovery (Heatran, Ferrothorn, Equilibra) and are really easy to pressure with partners like Tapu Lele or NP Torn or Venomicon (both variants) or like 50 other Pokemon. It's definitely useful to like make sure we're not stonewalled by steels, but even that's not end-all be-all imo; type combos that are hard walled by Steel types but have interesting offensive utility in other areas are still viable (esp with respect to bulky waters) I think, albeit I don't think any exist or have been submitted rn. I think it's far more important to focus on not insta losing to bulky waters; besides Tapu Fini, all of them are insanely difficult to pressure or beat without SE coverage (although status and hazards can help there to some extent as well).

note: all of these opinions are ones i've extensively discussed on the discord, so this might feel repetitive if you've talked to me in the CAP channel, but i thought they were worth putting out there anyway

 
There’s already been a lot of Pushback to Rock/Fairy and although all criticism it received is based on the fact, „that it’s literally Diancie”, which isn’t a competitive reason and pretty boneless to me, I want to propose an alternative, that is similar in what it does, but offers more novelty.

Rock/Dark
What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?
Rock/Dark keeps all the valuable resists of Rock type and is able to come in on Fire and Flying type moves. The Dark typing adds two incredibly valuable resists in dark and ghost, an immunity to Psychic and but worsens the fighting matchup and adds a weakness to Bug and Fairy.
In general this typing is geared towards handling some very potent offensive mons like Choice Locked Dragapult:Dragapult:, Paj:Pajantom: and Lele:Tapu Lele:, Weavile:Weavile:,Tornadus:Tornadus-Therian:(although Uturn Weakness is annoying) and other defensive Flying types, Goltres:Moltres Galar:, Venomicon-E, Volcarona:Volcarona:, Astro:Astrolotl:, Victini:Victini:and Gking:Slowking Galar:.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
It resists Knock Off, is immune to Psychic and gets boosted by Sand Storm.
What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?
It’s weakness to Ground, Grass and steel stand out here, as well as being able to make the ice neutral matchup a resist.
Patching the ground weakness is great in the Lando:Landorus-Therian:, Chomper:Garchomp: and Colo:Colossoil:matchup as well as against Astro:Astrolotl:.
Ice is obviously cool for Weavile:Weavile:, although we rarely will see a situation were we are at +2 with it coming in. Steel helps mostly against some Melm:Melmetal:variants although the uprise of superpower is annoying, while For Grass it’s nice to deny Rilla:Rillaboom:the easy revenge killing.
Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air?

How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?
I think the first question here is left fairly open. Obviously a strong STAB will be used offensively but the defensive boost is still very important to deny offensive mons a way in.
Coverage wise this type helps dealing with Slowbro:Slowbro: and offensive ghost types as well as making Steel and Ground Matchups neutral. It leaves CAP31 fairly passive to Fighting types Colossoil:Colossoil:and Toxapex:Toxapex:,and I think good Coverage will be necessary, But Rock and Dark are great STABs.
It’s not as interactive with Diamond Storm defensively as Rock/Fairy but I think this would end up making CAP31 a fairly nice offensive pick on teams.

Some reviews of other types

Edit:

Thinking about it more most ground types feel like we would have to cut down useful movepool options a lot, bc while edge/quake is great, most grounds atm don’t even run it. It’s like the 5th slash on Landos last move unless it’s choiced or SD where it’s tied with Explosion and like the third slash on any Chomper variant and hippo doesn’t even run it, although toxic leaves it open to a fair few defensive mons and whirlwind isnt even that Great

Rock / Normal
I think this typing is straight inferior to any of Rock/Dark, Rock/Steel and Rock/Fairy.
While it does have a very interesting defensive niche, i feel like it neither has enough offensive potential, nor enough defensive utility to work on CAP31.
Electric/Dark
I‘m convinced, that - unless we pull a Tapu Bulu - this type will not use Diamond Storm most of the time. The STABs are way to good and Rock doesn’t patch any of its coverage holes.
Rock/Flying
Probably the most rounded Rock typing proposed, as it has a solid defensive profile as the anti flying flying type, and flying is solid in patching Rocks offensive weakness to Fighting types. This definitely leans into, defensively checking some offensive mons, while pressuring the opponent with solid neutral coverage.
Ground / Fighting
This definitely wants to use Diamond Storm to deal with Flying types, that want to check its STABs and force 31 out with SE flying moves.
This leans more into the I’m able to break bulky waters and Steels category. A Ground, that doesn’t immediately lose to Zera is always nice too.
Basically same as above, with the difference, that we don’t trade the flying type matchup.
Fighting/Steel
Not sure how good this is. It’s an interesting defensive Profile and definitely has use for Diamond Storm. But I feel like the defensive justification for it is lackluster and agree with quziel, that Diamond Storm is less necessary with the STABs than on other non Rock types.
Same as above, but it’s got a much worse defensive profile, which to me makes it undesirable.
Rock/Electric
Probably the most out there offensive combination, that I believe works. Being able to hit bulky waters and Corvi is just that good. While others have concerns, that rock and electric overlap to much, I don’t believe that’s true. Against Flyings you click Rock and Elec is only for Waters an Corvi imo. Also cool because we get a Ebook resist, that isn’t zone, which already is an interesting defensive niche.
Bug/Electric
I don’t think this works well with Diamond Storm and feel like it’s misplaced here.
Grass/Fighting
Breeloom Shows how good Grass/Fighting is with Rock. It’s defensive profile is ass, but it’s nuts offensively so I think this can be very interesting.
Rock/Water
Something that bothers me with this type is that we give up Zapdos, without getting anything valuable in return. We still have to switch out of Scald users because the burn and can’t make use of the fire resist half the time, because we’re still weak to ground. Additionally Rock/Water doesn’t help with either Bulky Waters nor any other type we want to not straight lose to except ground.
Rock/Steel
I think this one is cool if we can create the right offensive profile through abilities and moves. It’s defensive utility is solid, being able to come in on a lot of offensive threats in the meta is pretty good. The two 4x weaknesses to Ground and Fighting aren’t bad per se because it offers some very valuable resists in return, but they reduce the interactions with the defensive boost by a fair margin i believe.
It’s still a typing that I think works well.
Rock/Ghost
It’s offensive profile is neat, and a rock that doesn’t straight lose to fightings seems nice, but the two most prolific fightings in the game still beat it. Additionally Ghosts physical attacking options look fairly unreliable compared to others and having to rely on two 8pp moves that can miss or have strings attached isn’t great (meaning free shadow bone and Serene grace for this)
Rock/Ground
Who hasn’t had the dream of fast Rhyperior smacking half the meta on its own? Edge/Quake STAB isn’t as good as it once was but it’s still terrifying. If we take this path we throw out most defensive utility, but a big fuck you tp flyings and a stealth rock resist are pretty valuable for such an offensive type.
I think pretty much every Grass works well with Diamond Storm and pure Grass has a solid defensive profile, that makes this a good option imo.
Rock / Fire
This will only work with immunity abilities imo. But aside from that, it has an interesting profile and I think it could work out well.
Normal/Ground
See Pure ground for this. Although Ground that sucks into Zera sucks, because it makes you lose competition with Lando or Garchomp half the time.
 
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I was hesitant to sub this, but since someone else did it for me, I'm going to show support for Rock/Fire.

While this has classically been one of the worst possible typings that you could throw on a mon, with two very common 4x weaknesses, Rock/Fire does carry some significant upsides. Firstly, the offensive profile is amazing. It gives great neutral coverage, hits Steels and Flyings hard, covers Grasses, and overall hits a lot of stuff neutrally. Even despite the 4x weaknesses, there are many defensive merits. We would have a burn-immune physical attacker, could switch in hella easily on Fire moves, have useful resistances to Ice, Flying, Fairy, and U-turn, and take neutral damage from the Steels that we check.

Yes, we get forced out by just a Water Gun. Yes, everything usually carries Ground coverage anyway. THERE WILL NEVER BE A PERFECT TYPING! I'd prefer to do something innovative rather than trying to replicate something tried-and-true. This is why I'm a huge fan of typings that have some great strengths and great weaknesses, like Rock/Ghost, Rock/Electric, and Rock/Fire. These typings will allow us to introduce an entirely new factor into this metagame that can capitalize on the unique properties of Diamond Storm.

Honestly, I think that the best "pro-Diamond Storm" typing that I've seen so far is Rock/Ghost. It can switch in on Fighting moves and force out physical threats with Diamond Storm and boosts, and can then use the offensive prowess of its typing to deal heavy damage to switch-ins. Additionally, with Sand support, it can be a major special wall as well. The major issue with this typing is Ghost either has weak or inconsistent physical STAB, but I think that properly balanced, this typing can give us a mon that will do something truly unique and noteworthy.
 

Wulfanator

Sableye used Foul Play!
is a CAP Contributor
Water/Ground is a solid option if we want to maintain the flexibility for offensive and defensive approaches.

1. What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that mesh well with Diamond Storm?

Of all the resistances and immunities the typing provides, the most important are the Electric immunity and the Steel, Fire, and Rock resistance. The immunity provides opportunities for 31 to switch-in on the likes of Tapu Koko, Zeraora, or Zapdos and threaten them out with the fear of a super-effective Ground STAB or Diamond Storm. This then places the opponent in a tough situation given the limited number of mons that resist both attacking types.

The ability to resist Steel and threaten them with super-effective Ground STAB also dissuades how frequently Steel-types will want to switch-in versus 31 to sponge Diamond Storm. Even if they do successfully sponge one, they will have to deal with the consequences of a +2 defensive boost if 31 gets it. We want to build as many safe opportunities to click Diamond Storm and maximize our 8 uses.

Having a Fire-resistance gives us opportunities to switch-in versus Astrolotl and Heatran. Both Water and Ground let us hit these mons without needing to rely on Diamond Storm. This allows us to preserve our uses of Diamond Storm for a more specific list of targets. This will help make Diamond Storm a more defining feature of our toolkit because its use will be focused.

Lastly, resistant to both Fire and Rock means we resist some of the most common coverage types in the game. The growing presence of meteor beam in the meta means we can take advantage of these mons too.

2. Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 31? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

Simply put, Grounds ability to provide a Stealth Rock resistance and immunity to most forms of paralysis is always appreciated on a type that can lean both offensive and defensive.

3. What weaknesses does this type have that can be effectively patched by a Diamond Storm Defense raise?

The boost will not impact the 4x weakness to grass, but this is its only weakness. With only 1 weakness, Water/Ground can more effectively make use of the Diamond Storm boost when matched up into any other typing. With enough boosts, nearly all physical attackers will have a difficult time squaring up into 31. The fewer ways the opponent has to break past our boosts, the more valuable the boost is at any point.

4. Does this type seek to use Diamond Storm offensively or defensively? Or does it leave this more up in the air? 5. How does this type complement Diamond Storm coverage-wise? If this type does not have STAB on Diamond Storm, how does it justify using the move and how much value does the extra STAB coverage provide?

The typing allows for both an offensive and defensive approach. If you plan to run both STABs, Rock complements them coverage-wise by enabling it to hit all mons (except a few meta irrelevant ones) for at least neutral damage. Either STAB can be dropped to still have a large pool of neutral hits while also enabling room in the moveset for other tools complement a more defensive route. Unlike some other types, Diamond Storm will be an critical element of any Water/Ground 31's kit to maximize freedom in its moveset.
 
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