CAP 32 - Part 2 - Typing Discussion

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I'm quite happy with how discussion has gone so far! Looks like we have a good number of opinions here, so I want to quickly summarize the discussion. For the time being, typing submissions are still closed. I also want to give a friendly reminder to not polljump. Assuming access to common STAB moves is fine if it is critical to your argument, but try not to use more rare moves such as Headlong Rush, Boomburst, etc. in this discussion (that will wait for Defining Moves!)

To start off the summary, I want to make one point clear. I am not going to mandate that a type be offensively-leaning, defensively-leaning, or diverse in its interpretation. It is clear that there are a number of paths we can take with the concept, and while CAP 32's typing will inevitably close some doors, I want to make sure as many are open for when submissions come around as possible. I'll also note that there have been many types brought up that provide unique defensive and/or offensive qualities to the table. Consider these once we get into submissions! This will be important information to consider when I make the slate. For now, I have prepared a few more questions before typing submissions open later this week.
  1. What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
  2. The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
  3. What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
  4. How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?
Bird Fact of the Day: Though your parents may not play favorites, the same cannot be said of the Great Crested Grebe. Great Crested Grebe will separate their chicks depending on who is their favorite and will raise each one individually, spending more time with their favorite children.
 
2. Is it more important to have numerous resistances or few weaknesses to accommodate for lackluster bulk?
Several types can accomplish both with little need to compromise. I would absolutely support minimal weaknesses vs multiple resistances, though strong defensive coverage is extremely valuable, especially with such limited bulk available

3. What types can make use of poor stats in a defensive capacity?
Steel, Fairy, then Water. Steel has the most resistances in the game. Fairy has nice resistances, including an immunity to Dragon. Lastly, Water only has 2 weaknesses at all. This is a bit astonishing considering how long it has been around

4. Are there STAB types that don't require a good statistical backing to operate well?
I'm stumped... I would say normally the STAB effectiveness relies heavily on the receiver of the attack. My personal pick would be Fairy. Even with mediocre stats at time, it has enough offensive and defensive coverage that the STAB is compensated by counter potential

5. Does the BP of STAB moves play a roll in compensating for stats? What types have commonly distributed, powerful STAB moves?
Dragon is notorious for generally very high BP. This is paired with the trend of very strong Dragon types, especially among the Pseudo Legends. Fighting is also quite strong, especially with Close Combat and multiple stat boosting options available, increasing combo potential

And a bird fact for you, my good sir! Albatrosses have the longest incubation period of any bird. Couples can stay expecting for up to 75 days. To put that in perspective, chickens only incubate for 21

Set #2 since I didn't see them at the time
  1. What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
    Fighting (VERY high ATK), Ground (Earthquake exists), probably Fire, given the sunlight focused meta recently
  2. The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
    Difficult to say.
  3. What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
    Ground and Steel! Like tremendously so. Ground offers protection from Thunder Wave paralysis, while also providing STAB Earthquake. Steel has typically had lackluster offence paired to incredible defense, but aggressive Steel Pokémon certainly exist (Excadrill, Zacian, Cawmodore) and have had strong moves introduced to highlight that (Steel Beam, Gigaton Hammer, Make it Rain)
 
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What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?

Look at all the types A Tier and above in the CAP VR!

Ghost: 4
Water: 4
Fighting: 4
Fairy: 3
Steel: 2
Poison: 2
Electric: 2
Fire: 2
Ground: 2
Rock, Flying, Dragon, Grass, Psychic, and Bug each have 1

Clearly, Ghost, Water, Fighting, and Fairy are all great typings to resist, as they are very common in the top threats of the meta. Not going too much in depth here about why.

The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?

Both Ghost and Fighting can be avoided through immunities.

What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?

Typings that excel due to the current meta’s defensive profile:

Fairy: Beats Fighting and Dragon Pokemon, common types in the metagame

Ground: Collectively, Ground beats Poison, Fire, Steel and Electric type Pokémon, combing some of the best threats in the meta.

Weak, dumb

Poison: Poison’s resists are too good to be considered a good crutch for CAP32

Dark: Not matching well against Fairy and Fighting is super ew


How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?

In my opinion, CAP32’s low stats doesn’t scream “I’m gonna be on and off the field a lot.” Knock Off might be an issue, but I think our main threat should be the pivoting moves. However, I’m not sure how detrimental these weaknesses will be.
 
1. How much should we value a typing narrowing (or not narrowing) the playing field for what roles CAP 32 can inhabit?
In my opinion, yes. Considering we are restricting ourselves via stats, trying to make it a Jack of all trades will almost certainly stretch it too thin.

2. Is it more important to have numerous resistances or few weaknesses to accomodate for lackluster bulk?
Numerous resistances, for sure. Weaknesses can be played around as long as its not Grass/Psychic levels of weaknesses and Resistances will make up for the medocre bulk CAP32 will have.

3. What types can make use of poor stats in a defensive capacity?
Steel, Fairy, Water, Ground, Dragon.

4. Are there STAB types that don't require a good statistical backing to operate well?
Fighting, Ground, Ice, Water. These types are super effective against a lot of the top dogs in OU which would make up for the lack of raw power the pokemon has statistically, if it ends up having an Offensive role.

5. Does the BP of STAB moves play a roll in compensating for stats? What types have commonly distributed, powerful STAB moves?
The BP of STAB moves ABSOLUTELY play a role here. Swellow ran an effective Choice Specs set with 50 special attack simply because it got the move Boomburst.
As for types that get powerful STAB, Dragon, Grass, and Fire have Draco meteor, Leaf Storm, and Overheat. Ghost has Poltergeist. Normal has Boomburst, but that move is rather rare.


aand i justrealized we're on the second set of questions after finishing these. welp guess im just gonna post both now

  1. What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
    Well, it's good to resist the strong offensive types. Ghost, Fighting, Ground, Ice, Water, Flying, and Fairy are not only strong on paper, but very common in the gen 9 OU metagame.

  2. The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
    The most valuable is the Ground immunity. 1 IN 2 Teams carry a Great Tusk currently, meaning strong Headlong Rushes are going to be everywhere. Ghost is up there as well, but the only type to be immune to ghost is Normal, which lacks resistances otherwise and is weak to Fighting, making it a not-worth-it trade, IMHO.


  3. What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
    I would say the strongest typing offensively in this current meta is the Ice typing. Literally every ground type currently in OU serves a defensive purpose. I say Ice over Water because Clodsire carries Water Absorb and Garchomp is not weak to water. Ice is SE to everything except Iron Treads, as well as hitting other targets such as pre-tera Dragonite, Amoonguss, and Roaring Moon. Electric comes next, because bulky Water types Rotom Wash and Dondozo are also defensive brutes.
  4. How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?
    Weaknesses to pivoting moves would be crippling to CAP32, especially if it takes on a defensive role. If we're talking being literally weak to pivoting moves, CAP32 becoming a momentum sink that ALSO dies in the face of U-turn will easily kill its viability. If we're simply talking being a momentum sink that the opponent can use to position themselves, that's also a big issue for obvious reasons.
    Knock Off, however, is much less common than it has ever been since gen 6, so we have more wiggle room there (unless pokemon HOME gives everything knock off back but that's a different fish to fry).
    I was originally thinking that entry hazard weakness would be a death sentence to CAP32. I then remembered that Heavy Duty Boots exist. CAP32 relying on HDB isn't ideal, because it keeps us from using a boosting item or Leftovers, but if push comes to shove, CAP32 could run HDB and be fine. Granted, being weak to hazards technically also makes it weak to Knock Off, because if its boots get knocked it's now weak to hazards. bit of a double whammy there yikes

    In order from least to most threatening,id say hazards is first, followed by Knock, with Pivoting being the thing we need to be scared of most.
 
Is it more important to have numerous resistances or few weaknesses to accomodate for lackluster bulk?
In any case, we need some nice resistances. Having numerous ones is not necessary but key resistances at the very least are needed. Considering that CAP will use its typing more than raw stats to get switch opportunities, it will like having resistances to common moves.
On the other hand, it can have some important weaknesses as long as they are easy to play with (through partners) but once again, we want to be able to come-in easily. That's why I see weaknesses to types such as Bug (U-Turn) or Dark (Knock Off) as absolutely crippling, these are very common moves, found in nearly every team, they don't carry much risk and we can't afford to be demolished by these moves on our switch-in. In that regard though, weaknesses are less important if we focus on an offensive profile: we only need to take one hit and do our stuff.

What types can make use of poor stats in a defensive capacity?
The big 3 are IMO Water, Fairy and Dragon: they are hard types to abuse. All of these types have some useful resistances and their weaknesses are easy to cover. It's not like they are flashy or anything but they are reliable, most team benefits from a Water-mon or a Fairy-mon and Dragon has an interesting defensive profile.
Ground and Steel are close second.

Are there STAB types that don't require a good statistical backing to operate well?
Does the BP of STAB moves play a roll in compensating for stats? What types have commonly distributed, powerful STAB moves?

Lumping these together as they are about our offensive prowess.
They are definitely typing that operate independently from our stats. Small mention to Dark, because of Foul Play as it literally doesn't use our own stats and Knock Off because it's Knock Off.
Any type with a pivot move (Bug, Electric and Water) is also noteworthy, as the STAB is a welcome addition of power to even middling stats (Rotom-A, Swampert). Same goes for moves with strong secondary effects (RIP Scald) like Electric (Discharge), Poison (Poison Jab / Gunk Shot / Sludge Bomb) or Fire (Lava Plume): they do not rely on a strong attack but provides a very nice spammable STAB option.

Lastly, high BP reliable moves will be tremendously useful to compensate for stats, especially for an offensive mons. Types such as Fighting / Ground / Water / Fire / Normal / Grass / Electric / Flying (on the physical side) or Dragon / Fire / Grass / Water / Normal have moves above 100BP with at least a decent accuracy. We can also think of Eruption and Water Spout has a potential niche options,

What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
I would say Bug is nice because resisting U-Turn is always a good thing, especially on potential 50-50 situations where you don't want to be chipped away, Dark to absorb Knock Off (though I am not sure we want to absorb these that much, leveraging our item can be a way to circumvent our average stats) and of course Rock for these sneaky pebbles.
Then, resisting some common offensive types can be a good way to improve our bulk. Resisting Ice or Ground (while not dying to the other) is nice here, as resisting Water.

The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
Ground
is huge for ignoring Spikes and of course because Earthquake will always be a common move. Poison or Electric are decent as well, for the status immunity and in the latter case for stopping cold any Volt Switch shenanigan. Lastly, Water once again deserves a mention: while not currently very popular, Rain can always be a menace and Gastrodon (or heck, Seismitoad in early SS days) has showed how a Water immunity is a huge asset

How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?

I think we can perform fine even a weakness to some hazards (not all of course, but something like a pure Flying type is OK here IMO). Knock Off is already much more impactful but I can see us working with it if we compensate. However, being weak to U-Turn and / or Volt Switch puts a huge pressure on our viability. I have a hard time imagining a useful Pokemon with average stats and a weakness to these. Think how Wo-Chien has trouble having a place in OU despite being an absolute stat-stick, having an extensive movepool and a useful ability because it loses so much health from a random non-committal U-Turn.

Though Meowscarada does exist... I guess it will depend of the rest of our Pokemon but it still feels like putting an additional burden.
 

SHSP

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  1. How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?
I don't think there's much to do about either of the pivoting moves, outside of maybe being a ground type for Volt immunity. I think it'd be very beneficial to be resistant to Rocks and arguably other hazards: keeping the item slot open to the option of not running boots is helpful when we're going to need help from any non-stats aspect. Knock is more matchup dependent- dealing with say, Meow's knock is a lot different than Tusk's and so on. I don't think weaknesses to any of these moves are super detrimental in practice, but they certainly fall into a category of "can only help us if we have a good matchup into them."

  1. What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
Ghost jumps to mind as a huge one, between Rev, Ghold, Dirge, Pult and misc coverage like from Valiant. There are also a number of typings that fall into useful teambuilding situations- flying, ground, water resists are always useful, especially in a meta with so many good and popular options of those types.


  1. What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
I'll throw Psychic into this conversation- it succeeds in hitting a ton of the common defensive options (Tusk, Base Book, Argh, Hawk) but would almost surely need another aggressive typing in combination with it to patch up the Steel/Dark blindspots. (Electric falls into the same sort of boat as shown by Caribolt, and Kril to a lesser extent).

As for what excels/struggles, something that jumps to mind is Fire, of all things. Jumbao and Sun being so good are huge boons to it offensively, and solid resists can be hard to come by because of the added power. Fairy seems to be in the opposite spot, honestly; there's a reason why the best fairies in the tier (Hat, Bao and Valiant) all rely on another STAB and/or coverage to break through very common answers in Book and Libra (among others.)
 
  1. What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
  2. The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
  3. What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
  4. How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?
1. Looking at the top of the Viability rankings, the most valuable types for us to resist are Ghost, Ground, Fighting, and Fairy. These four types are very potent offensive types already, and with some of the best Pokemon in the meta having these types, having a way of resisting or even being immune to a combination of these types is extremely helpful for us.

2. Tying into question 1, Ghost, Ground, and Fighting are three incredibly common offensive typings with immunities that we could take advantage of. In particular, Flying's immunity to Ground is helpful, as it also helps provide a resistance against the fighting types in the tier.

3.
Flying, Psychic, Fairy and Fire all stand out to me offensively, as each have multiple top tier mons that they are strong against while also having many neutralities that don't want to switch in on their attacks. In particular, the lack of Electric and Steel type mons in the tier makes Flying a particularly strong choice, especially with the many Fighting and Ground types running around the tier.
 

shnowshner

You've Gotta Try
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What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
This isn't as simple as which typings are potent offensively IMO, but rather what typings are commonly run as attacks that suffer either from lower power in the metagame, or have fairly easy ways to be minimized in damage output.

Take Fire for instance. This is a very strong offensive type right now for various reasons: Iron Moth's ridiculous wallbreaking power, Skeledirge's snowball potential, Cinderace's frankly stupid Pyro Ball, the rarer but still potent options like Pyroak, Ceruledge, Armarouge. All of this then getting boosted by Jumbao's Drought, a regular sight in CAP matches, makes for a very spammable attacking type with crazy high damage numbers. Right now, Fire can often plow through our even sturdy resists under ideal conditions, or just with a Choice item. Our probably-mediocre defensive stats don't look ideal for taking on the heat.

It might be much more valuable (and easier) to hone in on types that aren't as insanely strong, but still prominent in the tier. Likewise, I find types that face multiple resists appealing, as it means we could lean into a double resist to nerf the power of said type to the point that our low bulk doesn't matter: even a lowly Ninjask can take two Close Combats from 252 Jolly Great Tusk.

With that in mind, here are some suggestions for what we could lean into resisting.

Fighting: Very common from powerful STAB attackers such as Iron Valiant, Great Tusk, and Revenankh, Body Pressers in Garganacl, Venomicon, and Corviknight, or just mons like Arghonaut running it because it's convenient. Close Combat is rather strong, but these mons don't always run max Attack, and Revenankh's Drain Punch is mostly dangerous because of its +3 Priority and healing versus raw damage. Plenty of avenues to resist Fighting as well.
Grass: With the most types resisting Grass, this shouldn't be too hard to see. Grass isn't even that uncommon in the metagame, given Jumbao being arguably S-Rank, Caribolt's steady rise to stardom, the occasional Meowscarada and Breloom, or just as coverage from mons like Iron Moth or Stratagem. More niche for sure, but still valuable and well within reach.
Ground: This does unfortunately only have two true resists, but Ground is nonetheless important. EQ and Earth Power are a regular sight in CAP. Even among Grounds proper, many aren't obliged to invest heavily into their Attacking stats, like Ting-Lu, Equilibra, some Great Tusk and Garchomp.
Fairy: Somewhat limited, but Fairy lacks any offensive moves over 100 BP, and that combined with only Tera as a way of boosting damage (compared to weather or terrain) makes Fairy feel rather stomachable. It's not too rare to see as coverage either.
Water: Water definitely ranges in terms of damage (Rain teams running CB Floatzel and LO Kril, or just the Wake), but I find enough weaker Water-type moves to be around that this is feasible. Toxapex certainly isn't threatening us Water STAB, but even more potent mons like Rotom-Wash, Snaelstrom, or Dondozo could be switched into rather comfortably. Water is also legit as a coverage option, whether that's Specs Dragapult or Plasmanta.
Steel: Rather uncommon, but that's fine. Steel tends to be on the lower end of power in the metagame, both as a result of the mons using it, and the very uninspired Base 80 BP of Iron Head and Flash Cannon. Steel is also rather predictable given it's barely worth using as coverage. The only major hurdles would be offensive Gholdengo and a boosted Kingambit: beyond that, I find the likes of Scizor, Iron Treads, Equilibra, and especially Orthworm's Heavy Slam very manageable.

Bug could be a contender, though it being largely relegated to U-Turn makes this questionable. It's not useless and could surely be built around to a degree, but the primary Bug-type move preying on switches isn't ideal. This feels more like a bonus than anything.
Normal is interesting now that we have Hisuian Zoroark around, and there's some pretty dangerous Normal-type moves that are quite good to be resistant to, like Dragonite's dangerous Extreme Speed, Boomburst from Chromera, any Facade users like Snaelstrom or Colossoil. Even resisting Rapid Spin can have benefits. I'm not as sold on it given the rather limited options, but it certainly has merit.

The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
There is some concern I have regarding immunities, and that's how the mons which throw these types out often have ways of hitting their immunities SE (Kril's Water STAB and Ice Beam vs Ground, Argh's and Tusk's Knock Off vs Ghost, Rev's whole STAB combo, the list goes on). I definitely think we'd need to consider how the opponent won't let our immunities go unpunished: the best way to make an immunity which is covered for is to either force the opponent into an awkward position, or outright deny them an option. Similarly, I think the best immunities are going to be those that the opponent doesn't have a good way around, or makes them use a less desirable move in order to cover for us.

Fire would be a fantastic immunity to have, allowing us to blank stuff as ludicrous as Tera Fire Choice Specs Iron Moth's Overheat in Sun, a move we'd probably fold to even with a resist. This would also thwart Torch Song, give us protection from Wisp, and help further secure Smokomodo as the weakest CAP starter.

Electric feels good if only for Kril, but there's plenty more Electrics worth keeping an eye on. The capacity to deny Caribolt Rapid Spin is quite valuable, for example.

Ground is always a good immunity, especially if it doubles as a grounded hazards immunity (thanks Earth Eater for complicating that).

Fighting (and by extension Normal) has lots of uses, whether that's blocking Triage Drain Punch or hard stopping an ID Press mon.

Ghost is strong, common, and somewhat hard to switch into with limited Darks or Normals, and how every Ghost has a way to harass them anyhow. A proper Ghost immunity that can reasonably handle the Ghost clickers in the tier would be a great starting point for CAP 32.

What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
Echoing Psychic, this type is quite potent offensively right now given the lack of Steel, Dark, and opposing Psychic mons in the metagame. Being a type that smacks the various Fighting and Poisons roaming the tier is great already, but there's equal appeal in how few resists Psychic has right now. Neutral damage onto Garg, Dirge, Bao, Rotom, Kril in a single slot? Yes please, thanks. Factor in mons that often trade their Psychic resist when Terastalizing, such as Tera Ghost Gholdengo or Tera Flying BProof Equilibra, and Psychic genuinely sounds ripe for a killer offensive mon.

I also see some potential in Ice (little competition + some neat moves), Dark (rather unresisted in the metagame + some neat moves), and Ghost (it's ghost STAB). Normal gets a shoutout for having a lot of depth IMO given the wide array of moves and various interactions we can look into later on.

How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?
There's a lot of factors that can make us vulnerable to Knock Off. Krilowatt is a prime example of a mon that falls off hard if it loses its item, even though Magic Guard would otherwise make for a great Knock absorber, just because it relies so much on Life Orb to be threatening. Being able to retain a niche even if we lose our item sounds like a good contingency plan, so I think we should avoid being too weak to Knock Off if it can be avoided.

A significant entry hazard weakness is either going to consume our item slot or restrict our Ability choice, which isn't amazing. There are mons that tough it out, however, if the power is high enough, though our implied low stats don't give a ton of confidence that we'd have the same awe-inspiring strength as Specs Iron Moth, Venom-E, or the late HDB-less Chien-Pao. I feel like we either avoid being too weak to hazards or simply ensure that our offensive capabilities and impact within a game are sufficient enough to outweigh the heavy damage we'll risk taking or demand support against (ala ORAS Talonflame).

Pivot moves are more interesting as having lower stats could leave us slower and weaker than whatever comes in, but that's not an easy assumption to make right now. If we can avoid taking too much damage from these that'd be great, but I feel the danger they present is going to be easier to gauge the more we know later on.
 

Brambane

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The most valuable immunities CAP32 could have are Fire, Fighting, and Ghost. Obviously the former is only achievable through Flash Fire, but the defensive profile of a lot of type combinations would probably shoot from mediocre to marvelous with a Fire immunity. Sun is the bread-and-butter of balance offense at the moment. Fighting is probably the offensive typing with the greatest presence; most teams fit at least one Fighting-type on them these days, and many can run two. Ghost is also a strong immunity, but you can see the overlapping issues with wanting to be immune to both Fighting and Ghost. That leads you down a very narrow typing path.

There are some other immunities that are invaluable in different ways. Ground immunity, if combined with SR neutrality or resistence for example, really negated the need to every run Heavy-Duty Boots. This adds value to items like Leftovers and Covert Cloak. And speaking of, this isn't an immunity but not take 25% each turn from Salt Cure would probably be nice too. Normal immunity blocks Rapid Spin, and if you can switch into Tusk or Libra confidently you probably fit on some builds much easier. Electric immunity is always good, but I think its when you combine it with another immunity it becomes amazing. Think Equilibra, Saharaja, and Landorus-T as examples. Dragon immunity is also just always going to be good when Dragapult is meta.

From a resist standpoint, Fairy, Psychic, Dark, Flying, Poison, Grass and Dragon are all pretty valuable at the moment. Psychic is especially unique since its not really a common type on a lot of builds, but it is the most anti-meta offensive type and the biggest defensive hole in a lot of builds with mons such as Clodsire, Arghonaut, Tomohawk, Great Tusk, and Venomicon.

The aforementioned Psychic is the only type I would note as being uniquely strong into the current CAP defensive profile. Specifically, Psychic with any kind of secondary STAB that pressures Kingambit and Hatterene into clicking Tera or dying. Gambit can be pressured by strong Fighting moves, so Hatterene is probably the mon you want to target with your secondary STAB if you are a Psychic-type.

Most other typings don't stand out aside from Fire (because of Jumbao),Ice (due to the current lack of consistent Ice-type attacks, keep seething Syclant fans), and Rock (able the directly threaten Skeledirge/Venomicon cores.)
 

Da Pizza Man

Pizza Time
is a Pre-Contributor
I'm quite happy with how discussion has gone so far! Looks like we have a good number of opinions here, so I want to quickly summarize the discussion. For the time being, typing submissions are still closed. I also want to give a friendly reminder to not polljump. Assuming access to common STAB moves is fine if it is critical to your argument, but try not to use more rare moves such as Headlong Rush, Boomburst, etc. in this discussion (that will wait for Defining Moves!)

To start off the summary, I want to make one point clear. I am not going to mandate that a type be offensively-leaning, defensively-leaning, or diverse in its interpretation. It is clear that there are a number of paths we can take with the concept, and while CAP 32's typing will inevitably close some doors, I want to make sure as many are open for when submissions come around as possible. I'll also note that there have been many types brought up that provide unique defensive and/or offensive qualities to the table. Consider these once we get into submissions! This will be important information to consider when I make the slate. For now, I have prepared a few more questions before typing submissions open later this week.
  1. What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
  2. The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
  3. What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
  4. How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?
Bird Fact of the Day: Though your parents may not play favorites, the same cannot be said of the Great Crested Grebe. Great Crested Grebe will separate their chicks depending on who is their favorite and will raise each one individually, spending more time with their favorite children.
1: Fire and Fairy are the big ones that stand out to me personally, and a lot of that comes down largely to the prevalence of Sun in the current metagame. Outside of Sun however, Iron Valiant's presence makes Fairy a very valuable resistance at the moment, and there are fair number of good Fire-types such as Cinderace and Volcarona.

2: Ghost, Fighting, and Ground stand out as some of the most valuable immunities, as they are all very common attacking types at the moment. Normal is also a good immunity to have just for spinblocking, since the complete drought in viable defog users has nigh brough us back to the pre-Defog buff gens where Rapid Spin was the only form of removal.

3: Psychic is an amazing offensive type at the moment given the popularity of Arghonaut, Venomicon, and Great Tusk. Ice, while not quite as strong as Psychic, also stands out as being quite good at the moment (At least when paired with stuff that can deal with Water-types) thanks to its ability to cover Venomicon, Jumbao, and Great Tusk.

4: Being weak to hazards or Knock Off is perfectly fine, especially given that we can alwsys fall back on HDB and that Knock Off isn't very common at the moment. However, I would like to try to avoid being weak to both if possible, since taking a lot of damage from Knock Off and then having to deal with Stealth Rock damage is very quickly going to stack up over time, and while it's not a death sentence, it is something I would want to try to avoid. I have a pretty similar sentiment on being weak to Bug as well all things considered (I used to think it sort of was a death sentence, but I have since mellowed out on that. We should still try to avoid being weak to U-turn regardless though).
 
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quziel

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This is hella out of context of the rest of the thread, but I'd like to remind folks again. When evaluating a typing, don't look at what types you resist, but rather what threats you resist. Fire/Ground, to pick on an example, objectively does resist (is immune to) Electric, however, as we all know, Smokomodo is an awful poor Electric check. Fire/Ground here, means you are completely demolished by both Krilowatt and Rotom-Wash, and fold to a +2 Caribolt, meaning that all the utility you contribute vs Electric types is blocking Volt Switch. Despite resisting Ground, Meowscarada does not really serve as a great Ground-check, as it can't OHKO Great Tusk (without Leaf Storm), and is sorta trivially KO'd by it.

Aka, when evaluating typings defensively in the coming sub-stage, please look at how you match into the most common OU threats, rather than the most common OU typings. The two are related, but the former is a far better measure of a typing's defensive merit in the context of the OU meta.

---

To sorta answer the above questions, I think pretty much any common immunity is going to be a major benefit for us, because it gives us a way to switch in without needing strong defensive stats. Obviously more common immunities are more useful, eg Ground typing blocking Volt switch is always a plus, even, if as shown above it can be difficult to actualize, but pretty much any immunity will be a major benefit, and I don't really feel a need to rank them.
 
What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?

I've said before that CAP32 should at least have a Rocks resistance, but if we're looking for resistances to direct attacks, then I think it's pretty easy to say that it should resist the most common attacks in the game to maximize its points of entry. As it stands, Fairy, Ghost, Flying, Water, Ground, and surprisingly Steel are incredibly common types in the current metagame, and resisting any number of those four would be incredible for CAP32, allowing it to come in on the likes of Iron Valiant, Jumbao, Dragapult, Gholdengo, Great Tusk, and Equilibra with proper prediciton. Now granted, no amount of resistances we give CAP32 will exactly make it sturdy into these threats, but being able to switch in once or twice to fire off devastatingly powerful attacks is probably all this thing needs.

Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?

Just judging by the current state of the metagame, immunities to Ghost, Ground, Water, and maybe even Dragon depending on what happens with Walking Wake are gonna be extremely valuable for getting our 'mon on the field safely and reliably. As I've already touched on, being able to come in on Pokemon like Equilibra and Great Therian Great Tusk is gonna be crucial when considering their ubiquity. Hell, evwn being able to blank Arghonaut's Circle Throw could be incredible depending on the role we want CAP32 to fill.

While maybe not as prevalent at the moment, having an Electric immunity is never not a positive, as blocking Volt Switches from Rotom-W and Kril would allow CAP32 to potentially swing momentum into its hands and give it more openings to dish out damage.

What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?

While the metagame we have at the moment is undeniably temporary, there's still a few noteworthy trends I think we could take into account.

For one, the relative lack of Fairies and Flyers make Fighting an outstanding option for smashing through defensive Pokemon like Libra, Garg, Ting-Lu, and possibly even neutral targets like Corviknight and Arghonaut. Dark and Dragon also benefit massively from the dearth of Fairies in the current metagame, as evidenced by Pokemon like Chi-Yu, Chien-Pao, Roaring Moon, and now Walking Wake thriving and, in the two former's case, being banned from the tier. It's because of the tier's lack of Fairies, as well as its a abundance of Waters, Grounds, Fires, and Steels, that I Poison and Steel are definitely not our best bets in this situation, as their offensive utility is pretty moot without common defensive Fairies to thrash, so while they might provide CAP32 with loads of natural entry points, I just can't imagine that they're

Looking at the viability rankings as they stand right now, I think that an Electric type would go nuts into the current meta. Sure Libra and Tusk are everywhere, but Electric is still massively threatening to all of Argh, the books, Snael, Tomo, Corv, and all the Tera-Water and -Flying 'mons running around. As we've seen with Kril and to a lesser extent Caribolt (whose surge in viability could he more attributed to Hyper Drill than a loss of counters), the departure of Pokemon like Ferrothorn has left a huge opening for Electric-type to run wild on the pre-Home meta, and I have no doubt that CAP32 could tap into that success with no issue at all.

How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards?

I've expressed in earlier posts that getting CAP32 on the field to begin with is gonna be a challenge onto itself, so giving it resistances and/or immunities to what are easily the best moves in the game should be a top priority when choosing a typing. Even resisting just Rocks would allow CAP32 to find so many more opportunities to deal damage that it would otherwise be missing out on from taking 12.5% on every switch couple with its already-average stats. While I'm personally not huge on focusing on Knock Off when deciding on resists (I think that being knocked already hinders your offenses enough, which a bang average Pokemon really can't afford), but resisting switch moves and especially Rocks could go a long way for this thing.
 
Being able to typecheck the metagame is important, but I think it can be easy to get tunnel vision as well. CAP is a dex-cut format, but creating a Pokemon for it should have a bit of a natdex mentality, in my opinion.

Some Pokemon are OU or at least OU-viable in every generation. Solid all around. Lando-T comes to mind immediately. Tyranitar. Gengar. More relevant to the Cap32's concept, Clefable has had a rock-solid position ever since it got fairy typing despite its below-average stats. Some Pokemon jump from PU to OU and then back down to PU again in certain metagames, if not in actual tiering then at least in viability. Avalugg, Quagsire, arguably Ditto, Articuno with its niche usage in UU.

I worry that focusing too intently on which specific Pokemon in the current metagame we can beat will put us in the latter group of Pokemon, rather than the former. "Disposable", in a way. We'll have a nice Dino-Donphan check for a few months and then Dino-Donphan will get cut, leaving us with a below-average mon. If we pick Psychic (just as an example) without thinking too hard about it, just because it's good in the current metagame, we might have a mon put out to pasture when Alakazam comes back from vacation.

Sure, we could just buff or rework the mon when that happens, like what happened with Chromera and Miasmaw, but at that point we're just making a filler mon to warm the bench while we wait for the actual mon to come out. It's short-sighted.

Obviously the current metagame is the current metagame and should be prepared for. Not saying we shouldn't be doing that. I just want to make sure we're making a great Pokemon and not just something that'll shake the meta up for a few weeks before falling into irrelevance. The fewer changes we need to make to the Pokemon when the meta shifts, the better. A good Pokemon, even with average stats, can be good regardless of the current meta.
 
  • What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
Resistances are needed for switch-ins if we have at most decent bulk, and the two situations where they're most useful are: first, resistances to predictable moves, and second, pairs (or trios) of resistances to target specific threats with moves of balanced utility.

Some of the most predictable attacks in the current metagame are
  1. Fighting-type (Body Press from Garg/Book/Corv, Close Combat from Tusk/Valiant, and Drain Punch from Revenankh)
  2. Ghost-type (Shadow Ball from Gholdengo/Dragapult/Skeledirge and Poltergeist on Rev)
  3. Fire-type (Iron Moth, Volcarona, Cinderace, Skeledirge, Smokomodo, Astrotl, and even Jumbao itself often get into situations where their top attacking move is clearly their fire STAB, often due to sun - avoiding OHKOs here would be good.
  4. Volt Switch and Knock Off also qualify.
As some have pointed out, Fire-type moves, for the same reason they are predictable, can often be too strong for the prediction to be worthwhile, so on CAP 32 a Fire-type resistance may be worth less than it would be on a higher-statted Pokemon. In any case, whether we are weak to these types matters less than weaknesses to other types, since CAP 32 needs to avoid getting hit by them regardless.

CAP is diverse in its balanced attack type pairs - there's no EdgeQuake or BoltBeam equivalent where many Pokemon share non-STAB coverage in common. The closest I could find to good pairs of types to resist are Water/Electric (Krilowatt and Rotom-W), Fairy/Fighting (Iron Valiant and sometimes Jumbao), Fire/Ghost (Ceruledge and Skeledirge), Steel/Ghost (Kitsunoh and Gholdengo), Fighting/Flying (sometime Tomohawk/Venomicon).

Also, Ground-type and Dragon-type attacks are pretty common, so would be valuable resistances by themselves.
  • The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
Immunities are most useful when the attacks they're preventing from doing damage either have secondary effects we want to avoid, or are very high power. Fire, due to sun, Water, due to rain, Dragon, due to Draco Meteor and Outrage, Fighting, due to Close Combat/Focus Blast. Fire and Dragon are the strongest of these in the current metagame.
  • What types are useful offensively into the tier's current defensive profile? Are there any types that excel / struggle due to the current metagame?
Psychic and Electric are the two types that stands out offensively, the first hitting Venomicon, Arghonaut, Toxapex, Plasmanta, Clodsire, Amoonguss, Revenankh, and Great Tusk super effectively, and the latter targeting Venomicon, Arghonaut, Corviknight, Dondozo, Tomohawk, Snaelstrom, Toxapex. Fighting covers some gaps of both of these, including Equilibra, Garganacl, Ting-Lu, and Orthworm.
 
1. What types are valuable to resist given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk?
I literally just answered this in my previous post. You guys should check it out :]

2. The importance of type immunities has been brought up in this thread a number of times. Of the many immunities CAP 32 could have, which are the most valuable in the current metagame?
The immunities that would probably serve CAP32 the most well, out of the ones we can actually achieve at this stage, are the immunities to Electric, Fighting and Ground. The latter two types in particular have very high-end attacks in CC, EQ, Earth Power and even the infamous Focus Miss which are now well-distributed. Electric, not so much, but then again, Volt Switch is just annoying full-stop.

Shadow Balls aren't exactly fun to switch into due to their ability to hax SpD drops, so Normal types have something to sell with their Ghost immunity, here. The hard part (if it even is, which I'm sure might not be the case) would be pairing it with a good type that'd circumvent the Fighting weakness.

Lastly, there's the potential important resistance in Dragon, which might as well be an immunity because I still think Fairy would serve a better typing for CAP32 than Steel. Yes, they're predictable; no-one in their right mind is running a Dragon attack on a non-Dragon mon, unless they literally have no better options. But that doesn't make the prospect of trying to stomach an Outrage or a Draco Meteor any less painful.

4. How much should we value CAP 32's ability to perform in the face of Knock Off, U-turn/Volt Switch, and entry hazards? Would weaknesses to these moves prove too detrimental to CAP 32?
Honestly, that depends. We have Boots now to stop hazards from affecting the mons we put them on, but that opens up a vulnerability to Knock Off, which we can't truly mitigate unless we don't actually need an item to function, and/or have the means to punish that play down the road. Overall, I'd say keep these in mind, but don't hyperfocus on them. We can't have everything...
 

dex

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Being able to typecheck the metagame is important, but I think it can be easy to get tunnel vision as well. CAP is a dex-cut format, but creating a Pokemon for it should have a bit of a natdex mentality, in my opinion.

Some Pokemon are OU or at least OU-viable in every generation. Solid all around. Lando-T comes to mind immediately. Tyranitar. Gengar. More relevant to the Cap32's concept, Clefable has had a rock-solid position ever since it got fairy typing despite its below-average stats. Some Pokemon jump from PU to OU and then back down to PU again in certain metagames, if not in actual tiering then at least in viability. Avalugg, Quagsire, arguably Ditto, Articuno with its niche usage in UU.

I worry that focusing too intently on which specific Pokemon in the current metagame we can beat will put us in the latter group of Pokemon, rather than the former. "Disposable", in a way. We'll have a nice Dino-Donphan check for a few months and then Dino-Donphan will get cut, leaving us with a below-average mon. If we pick Psychic (just as an example) without thinking too hard about it, just because it's good in the current metagame, we might have a mon put out to pasture when Alakazam comes back from vacation.

Sure, we could just buff or rework the mon when that happens, like what happened with Chromera and Miasmaw, but at that point we're just making a filler mon to warm the bench while we wait for the actual mon to come out. It's short-sighted.

Obviously the current metagame is the current metagame and should be prepared for. Not saying we shouldn't be doing that. I just want to make sure we're making a great Pokemon and not just something that'll shake the meta up for a few weeks before falling into irrelevance. The fewer changes we need to make to the Pokemon when the meta shifts, the better. A good Pokemon, even with average stats, can be good regardless of the current meta.
It is CAP policy that we build for the current metagame. Unless that policy changes, we will be using the current status of the metagame for this discussion. It is speculative at best to predict what future metagames will look and play like, so taking a “NatDex Mentality” is outside of the scope of our current project. If and when Home/DLC drops, it will then become our concern. For now, we should focus on what we currently have at the table.

On a separate note, I like the discussion around immunities a lot. Thinking about past “Bang Average” Pokemon shows that they often have a lot of utility in their typing, justifying their usage in teams. Nidoking was quite useful in SS OU due to its unique ability to full wall Tapu Koko, and coming in on Clefable Moonblast + Twave was always nice. Clefable obviously had its own set of outstanding defensive attributes, one of which was its typing, not only affording it an immunity to Draco Meteor, but also allowing it to be the perfect Knock Off switch-in and giving it few relevant weaknesses. Thank you all for the discussion so far, and there will be a post later today with an update and summary!
 

dex

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I'm glad to see such excellent conversation here so far! To quickly summarize the past few questions:
  1. Resistances to common attacking types seem to be desirable given CAP 32's supposed lack of bulk. Resistances to Ground, Ghost, and Fighting seem to be top of the top for what we want, but they are by no means requirements, and there are many other resistances that could be great for CAP 32.
  2. Immunities are absolutely going to be a big deal, and while submitted typings do not need to be immune to something, it is absolutely a huge boon if it is. Electric and Ground immunities seem to be the best of the bunch, but any are good here.
  3. There are a number of types that fit the bill for being good into the metagame's defensive profile. Fighting, Ground, and Dark are promising offensively into tier staples like Equilibra, Garganacl, and Skeledirge.
  4. Knock Off and pivoting moves seem to be a sticking point here. Resistances to these moves are desirable, but not required. Entry hazards seem less important; however, not needing to run Heavy-Duty Boots will always be a plus.
With that, I am going to open typing submissions! I've prepared a few guiding questions that I would like you to answer when submitting your typing. Please make sure to very clearly note what typing you are submitting at the beginning of your post. Additionally, feedback posts and support/dislike posts are heavily encouraged; it is always nice to know what options get the most community support.
  1. What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that can make up for poor stats?
  2. Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 32? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
  3. How does this type perform offensively? What Pokemon can it target?
  4. Does this type suggest a more defensive or offensive path moving forward? Or does it leave this matter up in the air?
Excited to see what y'all come up with!

Bird Fact of the Day: The Brown-Headed Cowbird may just be the laziest bird in the world. They refuse to make their own nests, instead using the nests of other birds to lay their eggs.
 

quziel

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Fire / Flying

Fire / Flying gives CAP 32 a great mix of defensive prowess, with 6 resistances, including common attacking typings such as Fighting, Fairy, and Fire, as well as an immunity to Ground attacks, as well as two great attacking STABs, both of which offer 100+ BP moves on both sides of the attacking spectrum. This is a balanced typing that leaves open both offensive and defensive paths, as seen by the sheer versatility of Talonflame back in ORAS (literally could do anything). That said, it also gives a 4x weakness to SR, which really limits the item / ability choice, and sorta inherently makes us unwilling to switch into Knock Off.

In terms of threats who we naturally can switch into (at least once), Equilibra's one of the best, as we resist both of its STABs, as well as its most common coverage move in Aura Sphere. Jumbao should also be listed here, as we resist its stabs, resist Tera Fire, and resist Focus Blast. Great Tusk is a tiny bit more arguable, as it commonly carries Knock Off, which likely will annoy us, but we still have a nice resist to both Fighting and Ground. Iron Valiant is a similar case where, while we resist its STABs we do have to be a tiny bit wary of its coverage, as CM and Mixed sets commonly run Thunderbolt, and Physical sets often run Knock Off. Going to summarize our positives below, looking at all mons B+ and above atm.

STABs resisted and coverage resisted or neutral: :equilibra::jumbao::volcarona:
STABs resisted and weak to coverage, or carries Knock: :great tusk::iron valiant:
One STAB resisted and not weak to coverage + Threaten Offensively: :gholdengo::cinderace:
Threaten Offensively and can switch in: :corviknight::ting-lu:
Threaten Offensively but can't switch in: :arghonaut::revenankh::kingambit: :meowscarada:
Hard Loss Matchup barring Coverage/Ability: :rotom-wash: :garganacl: :krilowatt:

As seen above, we have a relatively solid matchup into a lot of common mons off of typing alone. I'm being intentionally conservative here by only listening very passive mons in the "Threaten Offensively and can switch in", as we likely could swap into Garchomp and at least annoy it, but the two listed there are likely to lose long term to us even if we hit like a paper towel. This gives us a lot of positive matchups, a large number of paths moving forward, and can justify its weakness to SR.

Water / Dark

Water / Dark is another sorta hybrid typing, where it offers good defensive utility thanks to well, Water-typing being a truck defensively, and Dark offering some nice, albeit targeted, resists to Ghost and Dark. This one then also offers broad offensive coverage, as seen by Crawdaunt in prior metas, just generally hitting most things for neutral barring Argh and Iron Moon. To put it explicitly, you resist Fire, Dark, Ghost, Ice, and Water, all of which are common attacking typings, as well as Steel, and have an immunity to Psychic thrown on for good measure. There's no SR weakness here, unlike with Fire/Flying, and you have access to a ton of great utility attacks on both sides, as shown by how much leverage Snael gets off its water-stab, and well, Dark having the most utility moves in the game.

However, I should emphasize how this typing, despite broad neutral coverage, has losing matchups into a few high tier mons, again, notably Arghonaut, as its stabs do precisely naught, Jumbao, which resists both, and Roaring Moon, which also resists both. This is a typing with noted offensive and defensive weaknesses, but at the same, noted offensive and defensive strengths. Its a good chassis for both offensive and defensive routes, though I believe its a tad better defensively.

I'll use the same framework as last time, though we have fewer autowin matchups into high tier threats than Fire/Flying does, at the cost of a less extreme weakness.

STABs resisted and coverage resisted or neutral: :skeledirge: :astrolotl:
STABs resisted and weak to coverage: :gholdengo: :ceruledge: :kingambit:
One STAB resisted and not weak to coverage + Threaten Offensively: :dragapult:
Threaten Offensively and can switch in: :ting-lu:
Threaten Offensively but can't switch in: :equilibra: :iron moth: :cinderace: :greninja: :volcarona: :glimmora:
Hard Loss matchup barring Coverage or Ability: :arghonaut: :roaring moon: :jumbao:

As you can sorta see above, this typing has a ton of mons where you threaten them offensively using your stab, but you won't get free switchins on virtue of typing alone, but rather would need either an immunity ability, or some defensive stats to do so. This typing is well set up to go down the route of nuclear wallbreaker (if you get a way to bypass Argh), or to invest in either bulk or a defensive ability and turn a lot of the threatened offensively mons into stuff you straight up switch into and beat.
 
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Nominating Water/Flying

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that can make up for poor stats?


The most notable thing here is a Ground immunity. Resistances to Fighting and Steel help it out defensively against the two best Grounds in the tier, Great Tusk and Equilibra. It also has a Fire resistance, helping it out against Volcarona and Cinderace. Probably not Iron Moth though.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 32? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

It's immune to Spikes, but since this will probably be running Heavy-Duty Boots anyway I don't think there are any real additional benefits here.

How does this type perform offensively? What Pokemon can it target?

It can target tons! Super effectively, it hits Arghonaut, Great Tusk, Equilibra, Jumbao, Revenankh, Skeledirge, Snaelstrom, Tomohawk, and Ting-Lu! And that's only the mons with defensive merit that are above B+. It also is good against Iron Valiant/Moth, Volcarona, Glimmora and Ceruledge. Only Krilowatt, Rotom-Wash and Plasmanta resist both.

Does this type suggest a more defensive or offensive path moving forward? Or does it leave this matter up in the air?

It could be both, but I would say slightly more offensive. There is just so much relevant stuff it hits super-effectively, which I think is main draw of this typing combined with pretty good defensive merit, taking on Great Tusk and Equilibra. The Stealth Rock weakness cuts into its defensive merit, but overall I think strong neutral coverage and ability to hit a lot of things super effectively make Water/Flying strong.
 
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I'm submitting Normal/Ghost.

  1. It has useful immunities to Fighting and Ghost (and a less useful immunity to Normal) with only one weakness.
  2. Not particularly, but it's neutral to Stealth Rock and immune to trapping.
  3. It can hit everything neutrally except Steel/Dark, Rock/Dark, and Normal/Ghost.
  4. This typing could be used either defensively or offensively.
 

ausma

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Submitting Fire/Fairy!

Defense


To preface, I believe Fire and Fairy both independently fulfill very relevant niches in Scarlet & Violet metagames. While it's true they particularly excel in the current metagame landscape due to a limited Pokedex, future influxes of Pokemon will not change the urgency of threats such as Iron Valiant, Astrolotl, and Volcarona that these two types are naturally effective in handling by themselves. Together, Fire/Fairy's powerful combination of resistances into the aforementioned premier metagame threats bring an extremely relevant and special defensive profile to CAP that does not awkwardly mesh its components in a debilitating fashion.

Resistance-wise, Fire/Fairy is extremely pro-concept, hosting a bevy of versatile resistances that gives Pokemon of this typing a very flexible set of positive matchups to take advantage of even with mediocre stats. Dark, Fighting, Fire, Fairy, and Ice are all very useful types to have a consistent response for, especially in a metagame with limited Fairy-types, at the cost of a Steel-type resistance, with Fighting, Dark, and Fire being particularly of note. This allows CAP 32 able to potentially check Kingambit, Cinderace, Meowscarada, Astrolotl, Volcarona, and Iron Valiant in one team slot, which is kind of incredible. We also quadruple-resist U-turn, which has its merits!

Because Fire/Fairy makes CAP 32 a Fairy-type, this also comes packed with a Dragon-type immunity, which expands its check-pool further. In my opinion, this immunity is far more important in the current metagame than I believe some give credit for. Having an immunity into Dragapult's Draco Meteor, Walking Wake's Draco Meteor, or Baxcalibur's Glaive Rush without being pressed to Terastallize is genuinely fantastic. Pair this with the fact that, as a Dragon-type immunity, it actually resists Fire- and Ice-type coverage as well, which no viable Fairy-type is capable of doing, and you have something that is actually capable of pressuring Baxcalibur and Dragapult's choice of move at a given time with proper team support.

The primary and most felt drawbacks are a weakness to Earthquake and Stealth Rock, but obviously no type is perfect and both can be mitigated through Terastallization and/or Heavy-Duty Boots. These are very manageable weaknesses that can be addressed in future stages and do not supplant the value of its positive merits.

Overall, this set of resists hit a lot of marks. It lets CAP 32 enter the field much more easily and grants it a solid, relevant, and highly desirable set of matchups that are currently unmet by any other Pokemon in the metagame.

Innate Benefits

Fire/Fairy only has a single innate benefit to bat, but it is a very nice one given its core matchups: an immunity to burn. Depending on what route CAP 32 takes offensively this may or may not be too useful, but it's particularly worth noting that, alongside its rather crucial Dragon-immunity, it is a Pokemon capable of checking Hex variants of Dragapult. This is a defensive niche not easily fulfilled

Offense

This is honestly one of the biggest reasons that I am a greater fan of Fire/Fairy as opposed to Water/Fairy, which grants CAP 32 with a very similar resistance profile without the Stealth Rock/Earthquake weaknesses.

Fire/Fairy, offensively, is very solid and must be respected. Fairy-type resistances in Poison are hit neutrally, and Steel-types are smitten for super-effective damage, while Fairy in return deletes the Dragon-types that resist Fire-type moves while hitting Rock- and Water-types for neutral damage. We super-effectively pressure a lot of SV CAP's bulky metagame staples, consisting of (but not limited to) Arghonaut, Equilibra, Great Tusk, Jumbao, Gholdengo, Corviknight, Dragonite, Garchomp, Tomohawk, Caribolt, and Ting-Lu. These are just the bulkier A-tiers and ones we hit super-effectively, which is an immensely promising and badass pool of Pokemon to be able to lay the hurt on. However, because of its great neutral coverage, we're also going to be hitting a lot neutrally thanks to the potency of each of these types independently, which does well in making it hard to exploit this type combo without a Fire-type or a Toxapex and easier for an offensive take on CAP 32 to operate.

While its true that it's good, we have to acknowledge it's not particularly the pinnacle of offense. As mentioned, it's collectively answered by opposing Fire-types and Lord Pex. Because of this, Fire/Fairy is a type naturally able to apply pressure with the right moves and tools, however it's not elite.

The reason I am such a big fan of Fire/Fairy for our purposes in spite of its limitations, however, is because of the fact that we need to be able to hit things super-effectively. As a Bang Average Pokemon, we need to recognize our offensive BSR is going to be limited rather uncomfortably, which will only take strong neutral STABs so far. For the sake of example, it's undeniable that Ghost- is good offensively, but it is mostly renowned for its lack of reliable resistances. On a Pokemon like Dragapult that has a middling Special Attack stat, this effect is especially felt despite its absurd offensive profile. Being able to hit Pokemon super effectively is absolutely vital if we want a Bang Average Pokemon to be up to snuff offensively, and is why I'm also somewhat adverse to most other Fairy-type combos from an offensive POV.

Basically, hitting many things neutrally and super effectively as a Pokemon that will likely have middling BSR is great, and Fire/Fairy brings a lot to the table in this regard.

Role

What I also adore about Fire/Fairy is that it is very capable of leaning into one role or the other thanks to its incredible and unique resistance profile, but also because of its offensive synergy. Both roles can also be supplemented by their potency on the other side of the spectrum; for instance, having so many great and relevant resistances makes it far easier for it to enter the field/find setup opportunities, while having a good STAB combo ensures it will not be passive if it dons a more defensive role. However, because of the fact it has the ability to effectively cater to both ends of the spectrum, we can still specialize CAP 32's role in later stages.

tl;dr fire/fairy the goat
 
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It's a double header! I'll be submitting both
Fire/Dark and Fire/Normal
as types for this concept. These two types are very similar in idea, and I wanted to discuss the strengths that both types have while also discussing how they differ and what either could offer us for this process. Both of these types offer a strong mix of offensive and defensive utility, thanks in part to the Fire typing that both share. where they differ, then, is that while Fire/Dark offers us a more offensively orriented type that still has defensive strength, Fire/Normal allows us to better play into our defenses more without totally sacrificing offensive presence.

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that can make up for poor stats?
Both of these types offer up similar useful resistances, but each have their own types that they counter. To start, both share the exact same weaknesses, that being weaknesses to Fighting, Ground, Water and Rock. While these are all fairly common types to be weak to, they are balanced by the types strong resistances to other types. When it comes to common and useful types to resist, both are strong against the many Fire, Grass and Ghost type moves in the meta, along with a useful resistance to Ice and Steel attacks, and each one has different strengths when it comes to taking advantage of these resistances and immunities.

Fire/Normal is the more defensively orriented type of the duo for a lot of reasons. For one, rather than simply resisting Ghost type attacks like Dark, Normal type moves are flat out immune to them, which is useful for allowing a Pokemon with average or below average defenses to switch in on powerful ghost type attackers such as Dragapult :Dragapult: and Gholdengo :Gholdengo:, with the latter being particularly easy to switch in on thanks to our resistance to Steel type attacks. Along with this, Fire/Normal packs a useful resistance to Fairy, allowing it to better switch into metagame staple Jumbao :Jumbao:. finally, Fire/Normal packs a useful resistance to Bug, which is useful for allowing a mon with average or below average defenses to switch in on and take weak U-Turns more throughout the course of a game.

Fire/Dark, then, while not packing the same defensive strength of normal, still has a few uses over it defensively. While it does take resisted damage from Ghost as opposed to no damage, it still does resist, giving it a similarly strong matchup against Gholdengo and other Ghost types. This type also trades its bug and fairy resistances for a Dark resistance instead, giving this Pokemon the ability to absorb the occasional Knock Off in the meta easier. It also features an immunity to Psychic, which, while not especially common in the current meta, does have a few examples of mons that the type can easily switch into to start applying pressure, such as Hatterene :Hatterene:.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 32? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
Both types feature an immunity to burn, allowing them to run Physical attacking sets without fear of being crippled by a halved attack stat, something that would definitely hurt a Pokemon that already lacks extreme offensive presence as it is.

How does this type perform offensively? What Pokemon can it target?
Fire type moves are phenomenal offensively, not only having strong matchups into the Steel type bulk of the tier, such as Equilibra :Equilibra:, Gholdengo :Gholdengo: and Corviknight :Corviknight:, but also taking advantage of Jumbao's :Jumbao: sunsetting, scaring it out and threatening high power attacks from either side of the Physical/Special split.

Fire/Dark shows its strengths over Fire/Normal in the offensive presence it has. Despite having a weaker defensive presence against the many ghosts of the tier, Fire/Dark makes up for this by being able to actually go on the offensive against these Pokemon. Pokemon such as Skeledirge :Skeledirge: and Dragapult :Dragapult: can't simply come in, for fear of eating a powerful Dark type move, while Gholdengo :Gholdengo: is scared out by both of this Pokemon's stabs, allowing Fire/Dark to switch in on it and more easily pressure the opponents next switch in. Dark is also similarly strong on either side of the Physical/Special split, allowing us to easily give this mon multiple offensive routes.

Fire/Normal still has its positives tho. While its movepool isn't as strong as Fire/Darks, it still has quite a few notable tools at its disposal, and unlike Fire/Dark, this type doesn't just invite the many Fighting, Fairy and Dark types running around, with Roaring Moon :Roaring Moon: and other fire resists being particularly important to not just simply invite in on us.

Does this type suggest a more defensive or offensive path moving forward? Or does it leave this matter up in the air?
As I've said in this post already, Fire/Dark tends to lean into more offensive positions while Fire/Normal leans more defensively. however, both types are strong on either the attacking or defending spectrum, and using either further down in the process still opens up plenty of discussion and options about roles later on down the process. In fact, because Fire/Dark is strong offensively and Fire/Normal is strong defensively, it can lead both to arguments that Fire/Dark leads a more defensive route while Fire/Normal is more offensive, since, with less worry about how they fare on their respective strong sides, it allows us to lean more into strengthing the weaker side of either type combo.

Now for some other types I like! (Yes there will be a fire bias and no I will not hide it)

Fire/Psychic - This might just be my favorite typing for this concept. While it does have an unfortunate weakness to both Stealth Rock and Knock Off, it's also a phenomenal offensive typing that actually has a fair amount of defensive use thanks to the mix of Fire's many resistances and Psychic's key resistance to Fighting.

Fire/Fairy- The defensive route to Fire/Psychic's offense, Fire/Fairy still offers strong offensive potential while offering more resistances and immunities to key types such as Dark and Dragon. While I'm not keen on Fire losing its resistance to Steel, I will say that fairy adds enough for it to be a type I enjoy immensly.

Fire/Flying- A perfect blend of offense and defense, the biggest issue I have with this typing in general is its absolute necessity of HDB, but they're basically already given for any fire typing as it is, and as it stands, this typing seems excellent regardless of what role we choose for it.
 
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Submitting Steel / Flying

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that can make up for poor stats?

Steel/Flying’s defensive profile needs almost no introduction, boasting 2 relevant immunities in ground and toxic poison, eight resistances, all for the low cost of two weaknesses. We’ve seen bang average mons find use simply because of this typing before, Skarmory and Corviknight, each mainstays of singles since their introduction. The question for this typing is not “can it work”, because we know that it does. The question becomes “what design space is there left to explore?”

How does this type perform offensively? What Pokemon can it target?

Looking at previous examples of Steel/Flying, we see a common theme of these bulky birds relying on powerful coverage (often fighting) or simply playing fully supportive/defensive role. Corviknight would likely be a u-turn bot without body press, Celesteela would have exactly one leech seed set without fire and/or ground coverage, and Cawmodore would be unusable without drain punch. This is largely because Steel/Flying as offensive coverage has two shared resists, Electric and Steel. However, both of these types are far less common in generation 9 than they have been in the past, and some teams are even forgoing a steel type. Looking at the VRs, with some of the best defensive Pokémon in the tier weak to flying, I would argue that flying spam has its best chance to succeed yet, and simply has no real abusers. (Tinted lens on venom feels like cheating in this re
Does this type suggest a more defensive or offensive path moving forward? Or does it leave this matter up in the air?

While traditionally Steel/Flying has been a defensive mainstay, I personally feel that it’s defensive traits could give a specialized attacker the backbone to succeed, so long as we don’t push things too far (Cawmodore barely gets to leverage its insane typing and volt absorb when it just dies to every neutral special hit) and have to gut that defensive utility as a result.

On the point of unique design space, I would argue that the three steel birds we have lack significant versatility. While not useless, Skarmory, Corviknight, and Cawmodore have very low impact abilities, and their move pools are tailored for a single use case. I would look at Celesteela as a far more interesting exploration of Steel/Flying, with a bizarrely diverse movepool, but still a rather niche ability. Either way, there is a lot to be explored in the ability stage here to differentiate CAP 32 from its sharp-feathered brethren.

While a lot of ink has been spilled about whether or not it’s fair to be averse to repeat typings, it is totally fair to be worried about direct competition with another Pokémon currently in the metagame. I hope that despite my fever addled brain I’ve done this typing justice. (covid is a bitch)


oh and uh, endorsements I really like all the fire type ones, dragon/fairy, and ice/ground
 
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Yu_IOTJ

formerly NoahIOTJ
is a Community Contributor
Submitting Ice/Ghost

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that can make up for poor stats?

As a ghost type, the typing is immune to fighting and normal, both very useful immunities to have in the wake of Great Tusk, as well as other good rapid spin options and pairs nicely to get rid of a common weakness for the ice type. The other resists ghost offers are for typically rare offensive types in poison and bug. As an ice type, it infamously doesn't add much to defensive integrity besides an ice resist.


Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 32? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)
Being an ice type means that it gains useful benefits from snow, which on its face isn't too much to write home about, but can be quite useful when looking for an answer to opposing weather and bolstering its own defensive prowess.


How does this type perform offensively? What Pokemon can it target?
Ice and Ghost are both very potent offensive typings, and together can hit a ton of metagame threats. Ice/Ghost coverage notably hits, Jumbao, Venomicon, and Great Tusk, which are all very potent metagame presences. It also extends to Ting-Lu, Gholdengo, Hatterene, Skeledirge, Dragapult, and Revenankh, though it has a tough time getting in on these threats. The only mons commonly seen in the metagame that resist both is Kingambit and Greninja.


Does this type suggest a more defensive or offensive path moving forward? Or does it leave this matter up in the air?
From the looks of it, Ice/Ghost is a very offensive leaning path, and with a lot of options for it to tread for in that vein.
 
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submitting two wildly different typings with their own merits: Dragon/Fairy and Water/Normal

Dragon
/Fairy:

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that can make up for poor stats?

Dragon/Fairy has some insanely good resistances and immunities (and is an incredible defensive type overall, with seven resistances and one immunity) but the most important ones right off the bat are its resistances to Fire and Fighting and its immunity to Dragon. Resistances to Fire and Fighting allow us to check some of the most prominent offensive threats in the metagame right now, specifically Skeledirge, Cinderace, Great Tusk, and Revenankh, while the Dragon immunity allows us to function as a switch-in to the psuedo-legendaries of the tier (Dragapult, Dragonite, Garchomp, Hydreigon, Baxcalibur,).

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 32? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

The other three important resistances this typing has are resistances to Dark, Bug, and Electric, which specifically give us significantly better matchups into Knock Off, U-turn, and Volt Switch. Considering CAP32 has a pretty high chance of relying on a held item to improve its mediocre power or bulk levels, a type that resists Knock Off is huge, and resisting U-turn and Volt Switch makes it so Pokemon that try to pivot out against us don't make too much progress.

How does this type perform offensively? What Pokemon can it target?

There's quite a lot of Dragon, Dark, and Fighting types in the meta that Dragon/Fairy can hit for super-effective damage! Looking at the S through A- ranks in the viability rankings alone, Dragon/Fairy can hit Arghonaut, Dragapult, Great Tusk, Iron Valiant, Revenankh, Dragonite, Garchomp, Greninja, Roaring Moon, Ting-Lu, and Tomohawk for STAB SE damage. It is worth noting that there are a few Steel-types in the upper rankings that dual-resist this STAB combo, specifically Equilibra, Gholdengo, and Corviknight, but those Steel-types are much rarer than the aforementioned DDFs.

Does this type suggest a more defensive or offensive path moving forward? Or does it leave this matter up in the air?

This could honestly go either way, but it really does speak to how well-balanced this is as a type IMO. I've already discussed the defensive merits of the typing at length, and a bit about the offensive potential, but it's also worth mentioning that Dragon and Fairy have a pretty strong selection of moves to dip into, from relatively reliable and powerful STAB moves (Draco Meteor, Outrage, Moonblast, Play Rough) to more support/set-up options (Draining Kiss, Moonlight, Scale Shot, Dragon Dance). This typing would allow us a lot of creativity in future processes IMO.

Water/Normal:

What useful type resistances/immunities does this type have that can make up for poor stats?

This typing may not have as many resistances as Dragon/Fairy, but the four it does, as well as its one immunity, are monumental. Resistances to Fire and Steel, as well as an immunity to Ghost, force Gholdengo to either rely on the unreliable Focus Blast or to sacrifice a moveslot to run Thunderbolt to hit this typing, and completely walls Skeledirge. Added bonuses of these resistances is being able to resist the powerful STAB moves from Pokemon like Equilibra, Iron Moth, Dragapult, and Cinderace. The Water resistance is also pretty useful here, allowing us to wall out Snaelstrom and Greninja relatively well while switching in on Rotom-W and Krillowatt's Water STABs (it goes without saying that their Electric moves scare us right back out though). Ice is not that common of a typing in the metagame anymore with the departure of Chien-Pao, but several Pokemon, like Krillowatt, Greninja, and Chromera like to run Ice Beam or Blizzard for coverage, so switching into these moves is always a good thing.

Does this type come with any additional benefits that are particularly appreciated by CAP 32? (ex. Stealth Rock resistance, immunity to a status, etc.)

This typing doesn't really have any additional benefits, but it also doesn't have any specific drawbacks either. It's neutral to Stealth Rock, Knock Off, and U-turn. All around just a pretty balanced type.

How does this type perform offensively? What Pokemon can it target?

While Normal of course doesn't hit anything super effectively, Water is a great offensive type in the metagame currently! Of the Pokemon in S to A- ranks in the viability ranks, Water can hit Equilibra, Garganacl, Cinderace, Iron Moth, Skeledirge, Great Tusk, Volcarona, and Ting-Lu for SE STAB damage. And while Normal may not hit anything for SE damage, it's a solid neutral STAB option to hit Water resists like Jumbao, Caribolt, Dragonite, Greninja, Rotom-W, and Krilowatt! In fact, with the Dexiting of Ferrothorn, the only Pokemon in the metagame that resists/is immune to these two STABs is Dragapult, which doesn't have the best matchup with this typing as established earlier!

Does this type suggest a more defensive or offensive path moving forward? Or does it leave this matter up in the air?

This is definitely a much more offensive type. Water and Normal both have very powerful and somewhat reliable STAB options on both the physical side (Double-Edge, Extreme Speed, Wave Crash, Liquidation) and the special side (Boomburst, Hydro Pump) that will most certainly help us bypass our low stat limitations. Plus, as I stated above, this is just a really solid offensive STAB combo without Ferrothorn in the tier.
 
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