CAP 32 - Part 5 - Primary Ability Discussion

[viol and bass]

I would like to shout out a couple already submitted abilities that I enjoy:

Electric Surge has grown on me immensely, and it is interesting for 2 reasons:

1. CAP is supposed to be fundamentally an exploratory process, where we learn new things about the meta, create new archetypes, etc. I can think of no better ability that fits this bill than Electric Surge, specifically because of all of the interesting synergies that we create with already existing Pokemon. Electric Terrain was a cool and useful field effect even prior to Quark Drive existing, powering up various pokemon's Electric coverage to bop certain threats, or enabling things like Hawlucha. Obviously in Gen 9 that's boosted to a new level, and we would learn a ton about the meta in the process of introducing a viable electric surge mon to the tier. who knows, we might even make Iron Leaves viable lol

2. We're not just gonna be a "use it for the field effect, not for the mon" pokemon. Electric coverage has really nice synergy with our STABs, allowing us to hit threats like Venomicon and Toxapex that we wouldn't really be able to threaten otherwise and likely 2HKO them. Electric Surge even allows us to do cool things like switch into Breloom's Spore (we already resist its STABs) and not fall asleep because of terrain.

It's just such a neat ability both for us and for the meta. I think it's very much worth exploring.

Poison Touch is another ability I really like. Regular Poison is a really useful status. It doesn't solve all of our problems since a number of poison types enjoy switching into us already, but if we have decent coverage for them, I can see it being really nice. It's worth noting that we could quite easily go a special or mixed route with poison touch, since Draining Kiss is a contact move. Grass Knot is too which might be nice coverage for something like Garganacl (which happens to be immune to Poison Touch... just chunk it with 120 BP Grass Knot instead), or hitting things like Arghonaut, Great Tusk, Ting-Lu and Colossoil harder than Draining Kiss and maybe poisoning them at the same time. It has some interesting options and doesn't heavily constrain us in stats and movepool.

 

[Wulfanator]

I would like to request that Parental Bond be approved for consideration. The ability’s mechanics essentially mirror the effects of several other abilities but provides them all at once. Having our ability be multifunctional better positions CAP32 to overcome the limitations posed by the concept. Firstly, the ability grants a 1.25x damage boost because of the additional hit. This is on par with -ate abilities (which grant a 1.2x boost) and abilities like Sheer Force (which grant a 1.3x boost). I would argue Parental Bond is better than these abilities simply because it works on all single-target, non-mult-strike moves and DOES NOT sacrifice relevant secondary effects for this power. Speaking of secondary effects, the additional hit similarly functions as Serene Grace. For example, Parental Bond’s additional hit for a move like Lava Plume means that there is a 51% chance to burn the opponent. While Serene Grace’s boost is better, the additional damage on top of the higher probability of a status makes it a better option. This does not even consider the improved effects of stat dropping moves like Moonblast. Parental Bond is much better than Serene Grace in this regard simply because there is a chance to hit the drop twice in a singular turn. Likewise, this ability to hit the effect twice applies to self-boosting when using moves like Torch Song or Flame Charge. This makes the ability function like Contrary+Overheat or Simple+Flame Charge. This is the type of project where we want to have a strong ability setting the power level for this mon, and Parental Bond is something to realistically consider.

Note: Parental Bond is programmed in Scarlet and Violet and is available for consideration. This is similar to how Comatose was still usable on Pajantom in Sword and Shield despite Komala being absent from those titles.

 

[memesketch]

Throwing my support behind Earth Eater, Adaptability, Pixilate, Electric Terrain, and Poison Touch. Really happy to see how creative everyone is getting with the suggestions, especially for offensive abilities! Anyway, here's my reasoning:

Earth Eater is probably my number one pick, and strikes me as a perfect choice for a defensive ability. It lets us actually put our set of resistances to use because so many mons rely largely on Ground-type coverage to hit us otherwise (Great Tusk, Dragonite, Skeledirge, Equilibra, CB Moon). Can also give us some nice utility into Tera Ground Iron Moth and Volcarona. Makes it way easier to fit on teams too; for example, it has good synergy with Equilibra and gives it the freedom to run Bulletproof.

Adaptability, of course, is pretty straightforward but remains a solid option, since there's so much discussion around relying on our STABs for our damage output. Lets us serve as a more direct attacking threat, which helps us force more switches and makes our job as a pivot much easier.

Pixilate is an awesome ability, and seems like one of the finest options available for our aim of overcoming low stats. Extreme Speed is a solid option to combine team support with the ability to force switches, and it hits most of the faster Pokemon that threaten CAP 32 to give us a crucial anti-offense niche. Other options, like Body Slam to paralyze Fire-types and Boomburst for a bona fide nuke, are just as enticing.

Electric Surge is a Jumbao-esque team support option that fits really well with our role as an offensive pivot with good longevity and versatility. CAP has several already very viable offensive mons like Iron Moth, Iron Valiant, Caribolt, and Iron Hands that would benefit hugely from a terrain setter. Would guarantee CAP 32 a valuable niche and also boost potential Electric coverage to make the mon more of a threat on its own.

Poison Touch is maybe the coolest and most unique option I've seen. Given how well it synergizes with proposed options like Knock Off, Bitter Blade, and U-turn, it gives CAP 32 a new dimension by letting it serve as a disruptive force early in the game. Hugely benefits from the lack of Heal Bell and the fact that regular poison is more impactful for it than Toxic given how its pivoting antics will force its checks in and out of play often. Ideally, I see it being a really interesting secondary ability.

Thoughts on some other abilities:

Stakeout is a really nice option if we want to go all in on our ability to force switches. We're yet to see a decent mon make use of it, so it's an inherently exciting choice. Though, I wonder if Stakeout conflicts with how we want CAP 32 to function: most of the discussion around offensive abilites that force switches seem use the assumption that we want to pivot out of our checks into a teammate that can deal with them. Stakeout naturally encourages staying in longer to predict and break through our checks ourselves, which diminishes our pivot role considerably.

I've discussed my thoughts on Magic Guard, and my opinion of Regenerator is somewhat similar in that it seems almost to be a surface-level fix. It doesn't solve our problems with our exploitable typing or do much for us offensively, and its defensive merit – that is, how many more hits it would allow us to switch into and soak up – would really depend on how defense-oriented we want to make our stats given our limited resources in that department. I do want to make clear that I'm not really against either option, though: they both give our mon a lot more freedom to come into play on paper and all but solve our most pressing problem, entry hazards. They're probably the two most impactful options we have realistic access to, and it really comes down to how we want to structure the mon around these abilities.

Lastly, I'm not a fan of No Guard, personally, for its drawbacks: I don't think having a perfectly accurate Fire Blast or Inferno is worth Venomicon's Hurricane, Rotom-W's Hydro Pump, Iron Moth's Overheat, or the occasional stray Stone Edge hitting us without fail.

 

[Sawyer.]

I think that choosing a blanket power-boosting ability (i.e. Sheer Force or Parental Bond) fundamentally contradicts the "Bang Average" concept. What can these options teach us? That a mon with average stats can be viable if it gets an ability that (for all intents and purposes) boosts its stats?

In my opinion, CAP 32 must have a high damage output to be effective, but that output should be limited to 1-2 attacking types (most likely its STABs). This would allow it to exert offensive pressure and force opponents out, while still having safe defensive counterplay which CAP 32's teammates can take advantage of. To fulfil this offensive pivot role, it is vital that we avoid making CAP 32 a wallbreaker which can force substantial progress in its own right.

Tier 1 Abilities

To me, two abilities stand out as ideal options which fulfil the aforementioned requirements. These are offensive abilities which boost CAP 32's damage output from a single STAB, while simultaneously mitigating its Stealth Rock weakness and mediocre bulk/speed.

• Pixilate: Pixilate Fake Out and/or Extreme Speed would be fantastic tools for CAP 32. Possessing strong priority options would massively reduce its vulnerability to hazards and chip by allowing it to threaten out faster threats even from low HP, which it could then predict and pivot on. The additional revenge-killing utility would also make it easier for CAP 32 to justify its spot on a team. Boomburst could be used to provide a nuclear yet predictable attacking option that would threaten out key targets like Great Tusk and grab offensive momentum. At the same time, Boomburst isn't essential and I think a Pixilate CAP 32 could easily go fully physical rather than mixed.
• Sharpness: Sharpness would grant CAP 32 a ridiculous 135 BP STAB move in Bitter Blade, but a notable lack of power otherwise, which is ideal. The HP recovered by Bitter Blade on any neutral target would be immense (particularly if we gave CAP 32 a low base HP stat), mitigating its low speed, bulk, and hazard vulnerability. From an opponent's point of view, trying to prevent CAP 32 from healing would likely force them into making predictable and exploitable switches. Sharpness could also enable some unusual coverage moves like Psycho Cut (although I think we should be careful about giving access to Stone Axe or Ceaseless Edge).

Tier 2 Abilities

While not as suitable as Pixilate or Sharpness, I think these abilities are still perfectly viable ways of fulfilling our concept.

• Regenerator: Regenerator is not the most original idea for a pivot, but it would certainly work. I particularly like the interaction between Regenerator and Eruption, which would compensate for the lack of a damage-boosting ability.
• Electric Surge: Electric Surge would enable CAP 32 to support and safely bring in a range of dangerous offensive threats, essentially mandating its use in a pivot role. It also has some additional benefits in the form of a boosted Volt Switch and the ability to shut down Breloom/Amoonguss. The choice of Electric Surge or not really comes down to subjective preference - do we want to pigeonhole CAP 32 as "the Quark Drive enabler", or do we want it to shine in a wider variety of team structures?
• Adaptability: Adaptability is a fine option. While powerful, the metagame has enough defensive counterplay to strong Fire/Fairy attacks to prevent an Adaptability CAP 32 from becoming an over-bearing threat in its own right. However, Adaptability wouldn't mitigate our mediocre speed and bulk as effectively as Pixilate/Bitter Blade, which is something we would need to compensate for.

Tier 3 Abilities

These abilities are feasible, but would place heavy restrictions on the movepool and stat stages.

• Prankster: There is an obvious appeal to Prankster, which synergises very well with CAP 32's Fairy typing. As with Pixilate, having priority options would partly mitigate a mediocre stat spread. I think Strength Sap and Parting Shot would be virtually essential for a Prankster CAP 32 to be effective, along with a relatively strong offensive stat and STAB movepool to actually threaten its targets. As a result, Prankster is arguably the most restrictive option on this list, but a feasible one nevertheless.
• Levitate/Earth Eater: A ground immunity would be amazing for CAP 32 and provide it with some safe switch-in opportunities. However, I don't think these opportunities are enough to compensate for the lack of sustainability and power. We would need to compensate heavily at the movepool stage, granting not only high-powered STABs but tech options like Strength Sap.

Unsuitable Abilities

These abilities have been discussed but are not, for one reason or another, optimal choices in my opinion.

• Magic Guard: Magic Guard is a crutch that would undoubtedly make CAP 32 a good Pokemon, but not necessarily a good offensive pivot. We would have to severely constrain CAP 32's attacking coverage in order to balance the universal offensive boost granted by drawback-free Life Orb and prevent it from becoming a win condition / wallbreaker. Balancing the Pokemon's stats around Life Orb would also make Knock Off crippling, limiting its ability to switch in and fill that pivoting role.
• Sticky Hold: While cool, being resistant to Knock Off doesn't justify using a "Bang Average" Pokemon over the many other powerful threats which are weak to Stealth Rock. I can't see how it would be viable, short of giving it Spore at the movepool stage.
• Stakeout: Stakeout both dissuades switching and actively discourages CAP 32 from pivoting when it's in a favourable match-up, so it doesn't fulfil the concept in my view.
• Poison Touch: Poison Touch would enable CAP 32 to wear down some of its own checks, but it wouldn't provide it with additional switch-in opportunities or help to grab momentum. I don't think it suits an offensive pivot, despite the synergy with U-turn.

 

[mark6870]

We would have to severely constrain CAP 32's attacking coverage in order to balance the universal offensive boost granted by drawback-free Life Orb and prevent it from becoming a win condition / wallbreaker.

A good pivot does more than just pivot. Many pivots can also wallbreak. Dragapult, Meowscrada, and Kril are the best rn and they all are very offensively threatening with a choice item or Life Orb, and speaking of Kril, its a pivot that highly enjoys having MGuard. Outside of SV, Tapu Koko is a threatening breaker that is also a pivot. Scizor and its mega are defensive pivots and win conditions with Swords Dance.
I'd even argue that a mon like Ash Greninja can be a pivot, as it forces switches and consistently made progress against the enemy team even if it didnt click a STAB move.
PIvots are more than just U-turn bots and having such a strict idea of what a pivot is is detrimental to CAP32 as a whole.
MGuard is pro-concept by making us immune to hazards, meaning we get more switchin opportunities so we can pivot around, as well as freeing up our item slot.
Speaking of, I've seen many a people show concern that if we DO go MGuard, we get Unfavorable Shrimp Disease, where we become reliant on Life Orb damage to the point we're just restricted to Life Orb, making the "freeing up our item slot" point null. This is a valid concern, but also one with a simple remedy: If we choose Magic Guard, when the time comes, don't do calcs reliant on Life Orb damage, and don't vote for spreads that are reliant on Life Orb for damage.

Also the same principle goes for Poison Touch. While not my favorite ability, it pressures its checks with poison, and pressuring checks is good for any pokemon, pivot or not.

 

[HealthGage]

If you ask me, I think the ability Simple would work wonders for CAP 32.

For other pokémon in OU with average stats that stand out to me is Azumarill, for its access to a very powerful ability. Though it's stats are low compared to others, the ability huge power essentially doubles it's attack stat. But because that's banned, we will have to look for another option.

Enter simple. The ability simple makes stat changes negative or positive doubled. For CAP 32, who's stats are average, would allow it to increase its stats much quicker allowing it to knock opponents out quicker. So with moves like swords dance or quiver dance, their effectiveness as a Pokémon are much better.

Now are there better options? Definitely. But not only is this a good ability for a Pokémon that will be knocked out quicker than most, Simple just sounds perfect for a Bang Average theme.

 

[Sawyer.]

A good pivot does more than just pivot. Many pivots can also wallbreak [...] PIvots are more than just U-turn bots and having such a strict idea of what a pivot is is detrimental to CAP32 as a whole.

That's absolutely true. However, given that we're explicitly setting out to design a pivot, we should ensure that CAP 32's other capabilities (such as wallbreaking) don't overshadow its utility as a pivot. This is especially important given its "Bang Average" stats. Unlike the examples of offensive pivots that you mentioned (Dragapult, Meowscarada and Koko), CAP 32 will not have blazing speed. It will often need to take a hit first before attacking, which means that if a player wants to use it to wallbreak or clean up with, they will have to conserve its HP by using it less as a pivot.

To re-state my original point, we should avoid making CAP 32 an overly effective wallbreaker or sweeper, as this will directly cut into how much it's used as a pivot. Giving it a free Life Orb (via Magic Guard) and good offensive coverage would certainly have that effect, which is partly why I think it's a bad idea.

I've seen many a people show concern that if we DO go MGuard, we get Unfavorable Shrimp Disease, where we become reliant on Life Orb damage to the point we're just restricted to Life Orb, making the "freeing up our item slot" point null. This is a valid concern, but also one with a simple remedy: If we choose Magic Guard, when the time comes, don't do calcs reliant on Life Orb damage, and don't vote for spreads that are reliant on Life Orb for damage.

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. If CAP 32 will be using Life Orb, then we have to balance its damage output around that. Otherwise it will be... unbalanced. Again, making CAP 32 terrified of Knock Off is a black mark against Magic Guard in my opinion.

 

[quziel]

Yo, I'm here to hype up DOWNLOAD. You know the greatest offensive pivot all time, the king of turning, Genesect, he had Download, and so should we.

What does this ability do, it gives you +1 to the offensive stat corresponding to your opponent's lower defensive stat, making this ability literally made to pivot with. Depending on how well we play it, this ability can bring our power to a truly competitive level with the rest of the tier, as there's very few other mons that get a +1 to their attacking stat for free. That said, it does have its downsides, as its relatively easy for us to get the wrong boost either by being brought in vs the wrong mon, or creative EV spreads from the opponent. Its a bit hard for me to provide examples for this ability, as it leans towards both physically biased and specially biased mixed, and is also ungodly context dependent, but assuming "Specially biased attacker with U-turn and either a final physical move or utility" we do reliably get significant benefit from Download, and it also lets us truly style on Great Tusk by just sorta guaranteed deleting it. The same is true for "Physically biased attacker with some strong special coverage" which could use Download to eg delete Physdef Garganacl.

---------------

I'm also a bit surprised that Magic Bounce hasn't been mentioned yet. Its another ability that's heavily keyed to being a pivoting one, as its strength is highest when you're brought in on a status move, and reflect it. It doesn't provide any offensive benefit, but the support and pivoting benefits it provides cannot be overstated. This also instantly creates a team slot, and somewhat reduces our need for boots, as we can prevent rocks with suitably aggressive play, though we'll almost def want to be paired with Corv.

----------------

I'm also a major fan of Pixilate. Revenge Killer and Offensive Pivot are inherently very similar roles, as both come in, threaten a lot of damage, and then force the opponent out, and Pixiespeed is one hell of a revenge killing utility. As long as we don't give like SD, this is a complete shoe-in for an offensive pivoting ability, and defines our playstyle more than almost any other ability here.

Electric Surge provides just enough of a boost to Electric moves to make them worth slotting onto our set all of the time, as well as a lot of team support. As much as I don't want to railroad us into being team support, I don't believe Esurge does. We're a horrid terrain extender carrier, and the boost to Volt switch lets us sorta sit in a similar role to Vict from last gen, being a coverage monster with strong pivoting.

 

[mark6870]

That's absolutely true. However, given that we're explicitly setting out to design a pivot, we should ensure that CAP 32's other capabilities (such as wallbreaking) don't overshadow its utility as a pivot. To re-state my original point, we should avoid making CAP 32 an overly effective wallbreaker or sweeper, as this will directly cut into how much it's used as a pivot. Giving it a free Life Orb (via Magic Guard) and good offensive coverage would certainly have that effect, which is partly why I think it's a bad idea.

When I say a Good Pivot does more than pivot, I mean Pokémon can be a breaker or cleaner and a pivot at the same time. Like CB Meowzer, Specs Pult, and SD Scizor. (sciz is more of a defensive pivot but it does clean with SD bullet ponch)
Restricting options that aren't purely for pivoting is detrimental to CAP32 because why would I use CAP32 when it's only good at one thing, and there are multiple pivots who do that thing just as good while also being able to do other things? A unique typing won't be enough at that point.
Being extremely strict with its abilities just because, at a surface level, they don't help you pivot, is a bad idea because we'll end up just being outclassed by the pivots that already exist.

This is especially important given its "Bang Average" stats. Unlike the examples of offensive pivots that you mentioned (Dragapult, Meowscarada and Koko), CAP 32 will not have blazing speed. It will often need to take a hit first before attacking, which means that if a player wants to use it to wallbreak or clean up with, they will have to conserve its HP by using it less as a pivot.

Cap 32 CAN have blazing speed. Just because we have lower BSR doesnt mean we can't have 1 exceptional stat. A pattern seen in many of the discussed "bang average" mons (Breloom, Crawdaunt, Clodsire) is that they tend to have one really good stat with middling other stats.
As for the HP bit, you always want to conserve your HP even when you are a pivot so you can take 1 or 2 resisted hits well, OR we get Regenerator and conserving health becomes almost a nonfactor because you're constantly gaining heath for pivoting. (similar thing happens if we get reliable recovery, but this is an abilities thread) If we end up getting lower speed, being a cleaner is impossible unless we get Extreme Speed. You won't need to conserve its HP for wallbreaking, ever, since A) just because we are offensively threatening doean't mean we're automatically a wallbreaker, and B) even if it somehow become a breaker, we likely won't be a slower than the walls we break.

I'm sorry but this doesn't make any sense. If CAP 32 will be using Life Orb, then we have to balance its damage output around that. Otherwise it will be... unbalanced.

Making spreads that aren't reliant on Life Orb will likely not make CAP32 Broken because CAP32 has a lower BSR. It CAN be balanced. This.. really isn't a discussion for this particular thread, since it focuses on stats rather than Ability, so I'll leave it at that and save my thoughts for when the stat submissions come around.
However, I will say that CAP32 being reliant on Life Orb may make us linear and uninteresting, and if that means nothaving MGuard as an ability, i'm OK with that. If we did get MGuard, though, and our spread isnt reliant on life orb, our item options become a lot more interesting. CAP32 could still use LOrb if it wanted extra power, but there is also Tricky Barb, Focus Sash, hell maybe even a Shuca Berry to turn the tables on Pokemon that threaten us with ground STAB or coverage such as libra, tusk, and band r-moon, and deal significant damage back. It becomes a more interesting and varied Pokémon if we arent calcing things around LOrb.

Again, making CAP 32 terrified of Knock Off is a black mark against Magic Guard in my opinion.

We'll always be terrified of Knock. If we're MGuard we'll be terrified of losing our boosting item (unless the spread isn't reliant on life orb) and if we aren't we'll still be terrified since we're an offensive pivot that's weak to rocks. Mons like Torn and/or Astro get away with it because they have Regenerator, but unless we get Regen as well, we'll probably always be quaking in the wake of Knock.

 

[Darek]

Just gonna talk about some abilities since I haven't had time to write till now:

Magic Guard, Adaptability, and Pixilate are pretty obviously good picks here. They're far from my favorite but I can't deny their merits.

Regenerator is an ability I'm less fond of. While in terms of viability it's definitely solid, my main issue is that it largely occupied the same space that Astrolotl does. While choosing an ability that has already been chosen for a previous CAP isn't inherently an issue, the fact that we are then leaning into a Fire-type Regenerator pivot with unexceptional stats makes me feel like we have little to learn or explore by pursuing this route. While Astrolotl isn't in the best state rn in SV, its use in SS has already taught us a lot about how to design a mon to fill this role and how it plays out in practice.

Electric Surge is also an option I'm not fond of. Regardless of whether or not it's the intended effect, I have a hard time seeing CAP32 use this ability only for itself. Accounting for the effect Electric Surge has on Quark Drive users railroads the process into something else entirely. Even as a "3rd STAB" option, Transistor is a better choice, although in my opinion that's not a great choice either.

Sharpness is an ability I quite like and it's seen a lot of talk on Discord but not on here: 135 BP Bitter Blade is pretty dang good

Poison Touch is just kind of bad. For starters, Fire/Fairy kind of dictates that our main two switchins will most likely be Garganacl and Venom-P, who obviously don't care about Poison Touch at all. This means that Poison Touch really does little to make CAP32 harder to switch into. The main issue here though is that we are a Pokemon with unexceptional bulk being placed in a very fast metagame, meaning that we don't get the opportunity to fish for poisons as much as we like. Compared to something like SS Toxapex clicking Scald, we come in way less often and are forced to click recovery more often than not if we want to stay alive. Even on a more offensive leaning mon, the 30% poison chance simply doesn't do enough to justify its use.

Prankster is probably my top choice right now, actually. Being able to threaten debilitating status on faster threats is actually an incredible boon for CAP32, allowing it to force switches on several threats it wouldn't be able to otherwise. By enabling CAP32 to threaten the opponent without raw attacking power, we are able to make up for a lack of raw attacking stats.

Levitate/Earth Eater are also clearly good picks but I want to discuss a bit on why I think Levitate is the stronger option. Firstly, I do think that it'd be pretty common for CAP32 to get Knocked. A willingness to get knocked would let a Ground-immune CAP32 safely come in on Meowcarada, Arghonaut, and Great Tusk, to name a few. While of course a Stealth Rock weakness is quite hindering after losing boots, it's far from a "Knocked Libra is a dead Libra" or an "Unacceptable Lobster" situation. This tradeoff between losing boots and answering a greater number of threats means that there are a sizable number of situations where switching in CAP32 to get Knocked is a reasonable play. Consequently, an immunity to Spikes becomes more useful than healing off of a ground move. Pokemon like Arghonaut, Greninja, Garchomp, and Meowscarada make Spikes quite prevalent, making Levitate's use case quite useful. Conversely, I don't think Earth Eater will actually come into play as often as we'd like; if the opponent knows we have a CAP32 in the back and they're in with Great Tusk or Garchomp, I highly doubt they're clicking the Ground move any time soon. As such, Earth Eater provides far from reliable recovery, and its infrequent use cases make it worse than Levitate.

 

[nutritious blend]

We don't really need priority and we're probably pivoting out against a projected Fire-type switch-in anyway. It's a bit of a limited angle too since design space centers around taking advantage of a few specific Normal-type moves, which can work but it's not really worth our primary ability to do when there's more pressing matters for it.

I disagree with this. I am all in on Pixilate and it's partly because I think we do need priority. Being able to come in on much speedier pivots like meow and pult and threaten them while also preventing them from getting off a safe U-Turn is a niche I think CAP32 is well built for. Kingambit is the only other mon that can do this and it has a full plate of mons to handle already. Consider that the offensive users of U-Turn are meow, gren, pult, roaring moon and these mons fall over to Pixilate Quick Attack. I think these are good options for us to center on and threaten. CAP32 will do better at threatening the frailer mons in the tier with its STAB options, especially since we are likely not running any boosting item. Otherwise I don't see why it warrants a team slot over Iron Moth or Azu. Having the unique niche of fairy type priority is what is going to make all of the difference with this things viability imo.

 

[Amamama]

Having the unique niche of fairy type priority is what is going to make all of the difference with this things viability imo.

I wanna go deeper into what this comment implies for our ability selection.
I do agree heavily that 32 will need a unique niche to set it apart from the fairy and Fire type attackers in the tier. Stab Priority is such a niche, which is why Pixilate is my favorite ability atm.
I also agree that only boosting our power output will not be enough to make this Mon good. If we reach a powerlevel similar to moth or Cinderace AFTER ability, what reason do we really have to run 32 except for slightly different offensive and defensive profile? We’d be in a heavily competitive space with not much to set us apart.
That said we obviously still have room to use moves to set this Mon apart.
Going strong Stab plus powerful utility is very valid route. Yet we are delaying a decision on what makes us unique if we follow that path.

For that reason, if we want to make sure 32 stands out with its ability I think we should focus on abilities that shore up defenses or improve/create utility over offensive abilities, contrary to what we established earlier in this stage.
Even if it’s counterintuitive to reinforce parts of the design that don’t immediately impact stats like purely offensive abilities would.

 

[Brown4Sides]

Here we go, I'm really doing this. I'm gonna post about why I'm against Adaptability.

1. It's been done before. Crawdaunt has done Bang Average Adaptability long before we came around. But what about Magic Guard? Clefable has Magic Guard and is Bang Average. But what about Levitate? Rotom-Wash has Levitate and is Bang Average. For starters, Magic Guard is a very versatile ability, and there are many interactions our typing allows for which would allow us to use Magic Guard in ways no other Pokemon has before. Levitate, yeah fair enough, but the synergy it has with Fire/Fairy is incredible. Rotom-Wash is neutral to Great Tusk's Close Combat, Baxcalibur's Glaive Rush, and Roaring Moon's STABs. Levitate on Fairy/Fairy however does a much better job dealing with all of these threats. Adaptability on the other hand is very one-dimensional. Crawdaunt used it for raw power, and it seems as though we would as well. We shouldn't just be trying to create a viable end product, we should also be looking to create something unique. We do not learn anything from creating a Fire/Fairy Crawdaunt.
2. It offers nothing other than damaging power. Even if not for Crawdaunt, Adaptability offers no utility. This kinda is similar to what Amamama said about making sure it stands out with our ability. How is Adaptability going to help set us apart from say, Iron Moth? Yeah, we're a pivot not a wallbreaker, but we've learned from Kerfluffle that just because you're a pivot doesn't make you worth using over Iron Valiant. We could still set ourselves apart in the movepool stage, I suppose, but it would still feel like a waste to not take advantage of that during ability. Besides, there are other abilities that not only offer more damaging power but utility as well. Pixelate offers more damaging power allows us to revenge kill stuff like Iron Valiant, which would be incredibly appreciated in this metagame. Parental Bond offers more damaging power but can do some really cool things with secondary effects like with Moonblast. Adaptability offers none of that.

TL;DR I don't like Adaptability

Other than that, I like Darek's post, and they made some good points on why Electric Surge, Poison Touch and Regenerator aren't good choices, and I also liked quziel's points on the merits of Magic Bounce.

 

[Brambane]

I favor Pixilate the most, as it gives CAP32 a pretty defined niche in the pool of potential abilities by shifting the offensive focus away from Fire and more to Fairy. Defining moves was mostly focusing on high power/value Fire moves like Armor Cannon, Bitter Blade, and Torch Song, while Fairy is pretty lacking in that department. It's hard to deny the immense value from Speed control with Fake Out + ExtremeSpeed, or raw breaking power with Explosion. It can even afford to go mixed without much Special Attack, as it doesn't take a lot of stat power to turn Boomburst into a threatening move. Obviously I am making pretty big assumptions about the movesets of CAP32, but Pixilate necessitates it.

I will go as far as saying that Pixilate is pretty foolproof in keeping CAP32 relevant and healthy in a changing metagame landscape. There is simply no Pokemon in the metagame or that could be reintroduced that replicates it aside from Sylveon, which itself is a pretty uninspired user of the ability. This is mostly due to the power and utility in a lot of moves that is usually limited by Normal-typing. The ability is healthy as it checks extremely potent offensive threats with offensive pressure, such as Dragapult, Iron Valiant, and Roaring Moon. It feels like it would open up teambuilding against HO especially where other abilities cannot.

I love Prankster for the same reason as above: it opens up teambuilding and counterplay against offense. Similar to Pixilate, you have to make big assumptions about CAP32's moveset, but Prankster Encore, Thunder Wave, and Will-O-Wisp are devastating tools. We have a better offensive typing for pressuring the Prankster-immune Pokemon in the metagame than Grimmsnarl, and that Pokemon is already viable. I don't know if we displace it, but we probably exist parallel to it.

Sharpness really opens up coverage options, more than any other ability in the thread, but the main appeal is Bitter Blade. A 135 BP STAB move with healing on is one of the strongest pillars we could build a Pokemon around. There are so many avenues you could take it due to its flexibility, especially when you take potential pseudo-STAB coverage into consideration. Not much screams offensive pivot more than being able to swing with a massive STAB move and offset the damage you took coming in on the same turn. It also screams bulky booster if we want to do a complete 180! f

Adaptability good, I like hitting thing VERY HARD. I think its worse than Sharpness and Pixilate in focus and execution, but it keeps the process more "open" than both of them if that is something you favor. And it's a good ability: sun-boosted Adaptability Terastallized Fire-moves seem like a good investment right now and would elevate CAP32 in a pool of already strong offensive options. Kind of similar to what Chi-Yu did in a lot of ways, but we could turn CAP32 into all of the fun with less of the broken.

Magic Guard is not super interesting aside from the interaction with Eruption being very funny, but it's a pretty safe pick for our current offensive direction. Basically means CAP32 can never be punished with slow pivoting support and makes double-switches even more devastating. Is Magic Guard CAP32 the partner Future Sight Slowking has been longing for? Maybe!

 

[Scizivire]

Hi, I just want to let you guys know I'm considering closing the thread in two days, so consider this post your 48-hour warning.

While I'm here, I wanted to share what I've currently got jotted down as a preliminary slate. Note that this is still subject to change, and if there is anything you disagree with here, you still have time to make your case for or against certain abilities. With that said, here it is:

• Magic Guard
• Adaptability
• Pixilate
• Levitate OR Earth Eater
• Prankster
• Electric Surge
• Sharpness
• Poison Touch

Reasoning

Magic Guard is an ability I'm personally not too fond of for this process, however there has been overwhelming support for it during the course of this thread, and its usefulness is certainly not to be questioned. It helps alleviate the burden on our statline by increasing our longevity via chip immunity, while also indirectly providing a power boost via Life Orb if we wanted to. Note: There's been concerns about a Magic Guard CAP32 becoming a Life Orb bot and how this might affect the stats stage, but I'm sure we as a community can avoid any major problems there.

Adaptability has been mentioned as a surefire way to boost the damage output of our STABs, which means we don't have to spend as much of our limited stat budget on offenses. The ability is quite simple, but it works here.

Pixilate massively expands our list of usable Fairy STAB moves, adding many useful Normal-type moves to that pool, especially so on the physical side. This grants CAP32 access to tools most other relevant Fairy types do not, for example using STAB priority to pick off faster threats with a weakness to Fairy (of which there are currently a lot).

Out of the immunity abilities, Levitate and Earth Eater have been by far the most popular choices. A ground-immune CAP32 matches up really well into most of the tier's relevant Ground types, and doesn't have to worry about catching stray Earthquakes from the likes of Roaring Moon and Dragonite. Note: I would only slate one of these for the final slate, but at this point I'm not sure which one because both are similar with slightly different merits. I would like some additional discussion on the two abilities to see which one is generally preferred.

Prankster gives our status moves priority, which can greatly improve our matchup especially against offensive team styles. Many offensive Pokémon fear statuses like paralysis and burn, as well as move disruption. CAP32 naturally matches up well into Dark-type Pokémon that would be immune to our Prankster-boosted moves, which means it is hard to stop CAP32 from generating value once it is in.

Electric Surge is more of a team-centric ability, as it can mostly be used to enable other Pokémon on the team, such as strong Electric-type Pokémon as well as Pokémon with the Quark Drive ability. Additionally, it boosts CAP32s own Electric coverage by a fair bit and prevents sleep, which are both useful bonuses. Note: I've seen some posts being concerned about making certain Quark Drive mons like Iron Moth and Iron Valiant too strong. In my opinion, we would be in a similar situation as Torkoal here; yes, Protosynthesis spam on Sun teams is viable in OU, but these Pokémon-- save for Walking Wake for obvious reasons-- are not THAT much better compared with them carrying Booster Energy or other items on non-Sun teams.

Sharpness massively boosts one particular Fire-type STAB: Bitter Blade. This move is already quite good on its own, but boosting its power really helps CAP32 in maintaining offensive pressure while also keeping itself alive. What's more, Sharpness boosts a whole host of coverage moves, potentially allowing CAP32 to threaten more Pokémon.

Poison Touch adds a venomous aftertaste to CAP32s contact moves, indirectly boosting our damage output on Pokémon that are not immune to poison, the status. Most notably, U-Turn has been mentioned as a move that can now inflict poison, potentially softening up a switch-in while we pivot out into a teammate.

I wanted to briefly mention other abilities that I'm considering for the slate. While Magic Guard, Adaptability, Pixilate and Levitate/Earth Eater are mostly guaranteed as of now, the other four abilities could be subject to change in my opinion.

Other abilities I'm considering

Regenerator extends our longevity every time we switch out, which as a pivot we should be doing a lot. It has seen some support in the thread, but the reason it is not on the slate right now is twofold; Firstly, it would face direct competition from Astrolotl as a Regenerator Fire type. Secondly, we would have to invest a significant chunk of our stats into defense for this ability to consistently provide value, which as an offensive pivot might not be something we want to do given our already limited power budget.

Snow Warning provides team support in the form of Aurora Veil, which is currently something not seen in the metagame. Also crucially, it overrides Sun upon switchin, which is nice as a Fire resist. However, snow does not do much else for us here, so I elected to slate other abilities over Snow Warning here.

—-

Also I wanted to mention that Parental Bond is now fine for discussion, so you have thoughts on this ability, please do share.

 

[faithviolet]

The choice of Electric Surge or not really comes down to subjective preference - do we want to pigeonhole CAP 32 as "the Quark Drive enabler", or do we want it to shine in a wider variety of team structures?

Regardless of whether or not it's the intended effect, I have a hard time seeing CAP32 use this ability only for itself. Accounting for the effect Electric Surge has on Quark Drive users railroads the process into something else entirely.

Respectively, I would like you to look at Jumbao and Pelipper. A major draw of Electric Terrain is of course the quark drive synergy, but this in no way makes the individual elements of CAP 32 irrelevant. It synergizes with our fire-typing by keeping us immune to spore while threatening out their users with super-effective STAB, and boosts our offensive-pivoting move of volt switch. Jumbao is proof that we could end up in a situation where many teams can enjoy having CAP 32, one quark driver, one electric-type, and fill out the team with other goodstuff. Finally, the concept is "Bang Average", and there has been no more consistently average-stat role in a team than a field setter. Electric Terrain works well with Typing, Role, and Concept, and leaves room for future creativity in the process.

I really dislike Sheer Force, Adaptability, Parental Bond, because they're unqualified damage boosts - Pixilate is okay, but I would worry about similarities with Caribolt in the future stages of stats and normal-type movepool. Building a Pokemon around Bitter Blade would be interesting, and as a result I'm not too against Sharpness, but Sharpness is also one of these abilities that takes advantage of the fact that average stats with high Base Power moves is equivalent to high stats with average Base Power moves, which to me is somewhat against the spirit of the concept.

Quizel's suggestion of Download is very interesting, with Genesect as a Pokemon to mimic as one which lives beyond its stats. I support it, though I think it'll take a lot of support to get on the slate. Just go look at quizel's post, it's good.

I believe Magic Guard is a little uncreative of a choice. It's so obvious with our fire typing, and we already have a CAP offensive pivot with low offensive stats!

Darek's point on why Poison Touch is not best for our current typing is valid. If we were Ground-type, I'd think it was a strong creative choice. But right now we don't benefit from it, especially as a pivot.

 

[IronTemplar]

Very glad there's a preliminary state established. I would like to take a minute to once again go over the capabilities of each, in the order Scizivire stated, which to me implies the level of relevance

Magic Guard: A very grey area, this one. Magic Guard is an incredibly busted ability, essentially several damage immunities rolled together. Though traditionally it has been used to avoid hazards and damage due to status conditions, very powerful moves with self-damage (Flare Blitz) become available to make up for lower stat values, as is the focus of CAP 32. Certainly the most powerful option, though a fairly simple solution, and not one that I overly approve of in this case
Adaptability: Fire/Fairy is an exceptionally strong pairing both offensively and defensively. Adaptability in particular is extremely potent in the era of Terastalization, strengthening an additional type alongside an already effective combination. Any increase in damage possible would be extremely useful with such limited stats, raising the cap (no pun intended) that much higher
Pixilate: There are so many extremely valuable Normal moves that Pixilate becomes incredibly useful for ensuring STAB options remain available. Flexibility exists for a wide array of potent options, each of which offers a decent array of utility
Levitate: Levitate is an older ability, but certainly a good one. It would help avoid floor hazards, though Stealth Rock remains an issue (and that remains true with most of these abilities), while removing a weakness to contend with
Earth Eater: Essentially Levitate +. In addition to actively repelling Ground moves as Levitate does, we get a little bit of HP back; extremely helpful for a pivot
Prankster: This one surprises me. Would certainly be an effective means of damage mitigation, for prioritizing healing moves in addition to burn or paralysis (my personal preference being burn to artificially extend a limited defense pool)
Electric Surge: A relatively new topic of discussion, but certainly fairly strong. Refreshing Electric Terrain for Paradox hitters is a very powerful effect that cannot be understated
Sharpness: The 2 words I have for this are Bitter and Blade, specifically in that order. It's a very good healing option with above average BP. Significantly more so thanks to Sharpness. Using it in conjunction with other pivot tools could make for a strong counteroffensive
Poison Touch: I have few words for this one. Poison is probably the least useful status condition for us to exploit, most of all since better options for applying it are present
Regenerator: I am hesitant to mention Regenerator for the same reason I was originally hesitant about Magic Guard, and that is to avoid competition with other users of the ability, especially since we have (at least one that I know) another CAP that uses it, which I would like to avoid making less relevant. That being said, it's absolutely a very good one, and one worth (ab)using
Snow Warning: Sunlight is the strongest weather at the moment. Overwriting it is an effective counter to those that can utilize it, especially if switches are proc'd

 

[chartung17]

Out of the immunity abilities, Levitate and Earth Eater have been by far the most popular choices. A ground-immune CAP32 matches up really well into most of the tier's relevant Ground types, and doesn't have to worry about catching stray Earthquakes from the likes of Roaring Moon and Dragonite. Note: I would only slate one of these for the final slate, but at this point I'm not sure which one because both are similar with slightly different merits. I would like some additional discussion on the two abilities to see which one is generally preferred.

I would prefer Earth Eater over Levitate. Earth Eater provides healing if we switch into a Ground move, which is helpful, while the main advantage of Levitate (immunity to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web) is negated by the fact that we're going to be wearing Boots anyway.

 

[Da Pizza Man]

I would like to advocate for the removal of Electric Surge and Poison Touch from the slate, and I figured I would touch upon the Levitate / Earth Eater debate as well while I'm here.

Electric Surge: I agree entirely with Darek that going with this ability would de-rail the process. The interaction with Quark Drive users, most notably Iron Valiant and Iron Moth, isn't something we can just outright ignore. Even outside of any potential repercussions introducing an actually decent Electric Surge outside of the metagame would have, we also have to consider what effects it's going to have on the process itself. I fear that this conversation is going to have too much of an impact on the remainder of the process, and may end up overshadowing the concept as a whole (At that point we really aren't asking ourselves "How can we make a Pokemon with average at best stats viable?" and are more asking ourselves "How can we introduce a Pokemon with Electric Surge into the metagame without pushing any existing Quark Drive users overboard?" or "How can we make a Pokemon that does a good job at enabling Quark Driver users?"). Avoid this like the plague. If we really want an ability that gives us super-effective coverage against Venomicon that badly (I don't think this is nessecery for the record, but that's besides the point), we can just go with Rocky Payload instead.

Poison Touch: While I don't feel as strongly on the removal of this from the slate as I do Electric Surge, I feel like this ability wouldn't be a good route just because it feels sorta weak. A lot of our switch-ins right now are immune to Poison (Venomicon, Garganacl). Also, I am a firm believer that whatever ability we are going with here needs to have a fairly solid niche in order to compensate for our lower stats, and having an ability that just does absolutely nothing 70% of the time is just not going to cut it in my eyes.

Levitate / Earth Eater: Between these two options, I think that going with Levitate would be the better choice. An immunity to Spikes is almost always going to be better than getting conditional healing when your ability is triggered, and while I do understand the argument that we are going to be holding Boots anyways, one thing we need to consider is the prevalence of Knock Off in the metagame. Given our typing, it's not necessarily underheard of or even uncommon that we would want to switch-in on something with Knock Off (Meowscarada and Arghonaut are the Pokemon that stand out to me the most for this). Also, while it's very obvious that losing our item is going to be a pretty big blow, it's not an outright death sentence like it is in the case of something like Krilowatt, so it's still good to have some sort of insurance policy that we can use to preserve at least some of our longevity.

 

[viol and bass]

I'd like to advocate for keeping Electric Surge on the slate. Assuming that a strong ESurge CAP32 suddenly makes one of the Irons broken is a stretch in my opinion, and I don't think we should limit our ability selection on the basis of an assumption like that, since we really don't know.

I also don't agree that future stages will be consumed with concerns about breaking Irons Valiant and Moth. To be honest I don't really see how it has much of an impact on stats or movepool, beyond like making pivoting moves that we would probably get anyway more useful. Even if you assume that something comes out broken after we release this mon into the metagame, the CAP32 half of the (32+valiant) or (32+moth) pair will not be the half that is broken, right? Assuming the mon is viable enough to be used unlike Pincurchin, adding or subtracting stats from 32 won't make valiant or moth more or less broken, it'll just make the pair slightly more splashable, and therefore I don't think it needs to receive a ton of discussion. If the concern is that we will be a terrain bot that isn't used for its own merits, making the mon weaker actually amplifies that problem.

Poison Touch definitely has its flaws but I think having decent coverage to hit the few poison-immune mons that come in easily (most immune mons are steel-types that are weak to our Fire STAB) is enough to make it work well, since literally everything else is afraid of coming in. I'm told Pex is not good right now, so it's basically Moth, Venom, and Garg (maybe Snael?). I think we can find a way to threaten these mons in some fashion, and everything else is afraid of our STABs, being poisoned, or both. Spreading poison while maintaining momentum is a really useful trait and perfect for our role.

 

[MrDollSteak]

Hi, I just want to let you guys know I'm considering closing the thread in two days, so consider this post your 48-hour warning.

While I'm here, I wanted to share what I've currently got jotted down as a preliminary slate. Note that this is still subject to change, and if there is anything you disagree with here, you still have time to make your case for or against certain abilities. With that said, here it is:

• Magic Guard
• Adaptability
• Pixilate
• Levitate OR Earth Eater
• Prankster
• Electric Surge
• Sharpness
• Poison Touch

Reasoning

Magic Guard is an ability I'm personally not too fond of for this process, however there has been overwhelming support for it during the course of this thread, and its usefulness is certainly not to be questioned. It helps alleviate the burden on our statline by increasing our longevity via chip immunity, while also indirectly providing a power boost via Life Orb if we wanted to. Note: There's been concerns about a Magic Guard CAP32 becoming a Life Orb bot and how this might affect the stats stage, but I'm sure we as a community can avoid any major problems there.

Adaptability has been mentioned as a surefire way to boost the damage output of our STABs, which means we don't have to spend as much of our limited stat budget on offenses. The ability is quite simple, but it works here.

Pixilate massively expands our list of usable Fairy STAB moves, adding many useful Normal-type moves to that pool, especially so on the physical side. This grants CAP32 access to tools most other relevant Fairy types do not, for example using STAB priority to pick off faster threats with a weakness to Fairy (of which there are currently a lot).

Out of the immunity abilities, Levitate and Earth Eater have been by far the most popular choices. A ground-immune CAP32 matches up really well into most of the tier's relevant Ground types, and doesn't have to worry about catching stray Earthquakes from the likes of Roaring Moon and Dragonite. Note: I would only slate one of these for the final slate, but at this point I'm not sure which one because both are similar with slightly different merits. I would like some additional discussion on the two abilities to see which one is generally preferred.

Prankster gives our status moves priority, which can greatly improve our matchup especially against offensive team styles. Many offensive Pokémon fear statuses like paralysis and burn, as well as move disruption. CAP32 naturally matches up well into Dark-type Pokémon that would be immune to our Prankster-boosted moves, which means it is hard to stop CAP32 from generating value once it is in.

Electric Surge is more of a team-centric ability, as it can mostly be used to enable other Pokémon on the team, such as strong Electric-type Pokémon as well as Pokémon with the Quark Drive ability. Additionally, it boosts CAP32s own Electric coverage by a fair bit and prevents sleep, which are both useful bonuses. Note: I've seen some posts being concerned about making certain Quark Drive mons like Iron Moth and Iron Valiant too strong. In my opinion, we would be in a similar situation as Torkoal here; yes, Protosynthesis spam on Sun teams is viable in OU, but these Pokémon-- save for Walking Wake for obvious reasons-- are not THAT much better compared with them carrying Booster Energy or other items on non-Sun teams.

Sharpness massively boosts one particular Fire-type STAB: Bitter Blade. This move is already quite good on its own, but boosting its power really helps CAP32 in maintaining offensive pressure while also keeping itself alive. What's more, Sharpness boosts a whole host of coverage moves, potentially allowing CAP32 to threaten more Pokémon.

Poison Touch adds a venomous aftertaste to CAP32s contact moves, indirectly boosting our damage output on Pokémon that are not immune to poison, the status. Most notably, U-Turn has been mentioned as a move that can now inflict poison, potentially softening up a switch-in while we pivot out into a teammate.

I wanted to briefly mention other abilities that I'm considering for the slate. While Magic Guard, Adaptability, Pixilate and Levitate/Earth Eater are mostly guaranteed as of now, the other four abilities could be subject to change in my opinion.

Other abilities I'm considering

Regenerator extends our longevity every time we switch out, which as a pivot we should be doing a lot. It has seen some support in the thread, but the reason it is not on the slate right now is twofold; Firstly, it would face direct competition from Astrolotl as a Regenerator Fire type. Secondly, we would have to invest a significant chunk of our stats into defense for this ability to consistently provide value, which as an offensive pivot might not be something we want to do given our already limited power budget.

Snow Warning provides team support in the form of Aurora Veil, which is currently something not seen in the metagame. Also crucially, it overrides Sun upon switchin, which is nice as a Fire resist. However, snow does not do much else for us here, so I elected to slate other abilities over Snow Warning here.

I like the preliminary slate a lot.

The only one I'm unsure of is Poison Touch. It's not a bad ability but I really don't see it being on the level of dramatic effect we need to make our kit synergise. There are plenty of Poison Touch Pokemon in the game with Average Stats that have gone nowhere and I worry about how much our Movepool alone will be able to carry it.

To approach the Levitate / Earth Eater debate, I think both ultimately have merit, but I'd personally lean towards Levitate. It gives us a little bit more flexibility in terms of our Item choice and makes us less vulnerable to Knock Off which our Fairy type would seem to help us with. Earth Eater being able to compress recovery is nice but is inconsistent in my view.

I'm pretty ambivalent towards Magic Guard, Regenerator (backup) and Prankster. They're all strong but tread very familiar Ground to a range of Pokemon in the metagame. I'm sure we could do something unique but they don't really stand out as interesting.

My favourites on the slate are Electric Surge and Pixilate to a large degree for widely different reasons, with Adaptability and Sharpness as good back up choices. I would strongly advocate Electric Surge staying on the slate as it offers quite unparalleled utility and would go the furthest in providing 32 with a niche. I don't think our enabling of the Future Paradox forms is going to derail the process at all, and will still gives us a lot of scope to consider how to define our Stats and movepool. At the most I can see us restricting one or two moves such as Hazards or Stat droppers that would open things up for Valiant or Moth for example, or perhaps a minor Defensive breakpoint but these decisions are part of any process in any case.

I'd like to end by recommending Parental Bond be added to the slate. It achieves much of what Poison Touch proposes to and has a plethora of additional benefits that make it unique and compelling. It offers great compression between Offensive boosting and Utility as other users have argued, while also providing a rather unique niche in bypassing Substitutes.

 

[Ayecrusher King]

Joining in for the removal of Poison Touch, and suggesting Parental Bond instead. Attacking essentially twice per turn rather than have the measly 30% chance for poison, which itself is situational at best, seems like the more optimal choice. Hell, even among the mons who have it, Muk-A is the only one I've seen who wants the extra chances of poison, and that's solely because its other Abilities suck.

 

[Brambane]

Poison Touch is too low impact. I don't think the backbone of CAP32 is strong enough to support an ability with a 30% proc chance and only decent rewards. Poison Touch would be passable if we had a move to click that stacked effects, like Poison Jab, but we simply don't. I think it leans too heavily on spamming Knock Off a lot, which by itself has diminishing returns without STAB. The ability is also blocked by Garganacl and Venomicon, which is pretty ass for this meta as a physical attacker.

I would slot Parental Bond or Snow Warning over the ability. Parental Bond is basically a straight upgrade, and Snow Warning gives CAP32 a more defined direction and team structure.

 

[skippergamez]

I strongly believe that Magic Guard should be approached as a defensive ability. Magic Guard is very supportive in our role, allowing us to pivot freely without worrying about Knock Off. If we approach Magic Guard as a defensive ability, then we won't be either a LO bot, or have USS.

On the EE vs Levitate debate, I feel Earth Eater is better, but I do agree that levitate's merits might be better for our role as opinion.

and ya, pbond > ptouch

 

[BobKingOfSeagulls]

I'd also like to support parental bond. Beyond being an ability that hasn't been seen anywhere in generations, it provides a lot of solid utility in addition to a power boost, unlike something like Adaptability which is a pure Power Provider, while also having interesting interactions regarding the fact that is hits twice, rather than simply improving a single hit.

For Levitate vs Earth Eater. While I do get that Levitate will help with non-SR hazards if we lose boots, if we worry about hazards at all it's SR, and if we lack boots it's not going to be much of a consolation that we only lose 25% on a switch rather than 37%. Plus, given the healing provided by EE against a move type that is commonly used, we're probably getting even more protection than we would get by being able to ignore spikes + tspikes. (Plus, again, I like abilities that aren't already super common and EE is a new toy - but that's not really something that matters).