CAP 36 - Part 9 - Moveset Discussion

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Wouldn't that go against the whole framework of it being a Meloetta-like Pokémon, since Relic Song is a sound move? Otherwise its signature move would have to be completely different
Sure, but it being on the table at all indicates that, one way or another, leadership believes it to be a legitimate adjustment? If it was just flatly "has to be sound move" then this wouldn't have been a conversation in the first place, and any Throat Spray convos would've been "well what are we doing since CAP Song has to be a sound move".
 
Wouldn't that go against the whole framework of it being a Meloetta-like Pokémon, since Relic Song is a sound move? Otherwise its signature move would have to be completely different
This is definitely a factor, but competitive considerations come first. It's why we changed the secondary effect away from sleep; they would have preferred keeping it the same, but we are rightfully afraid of the competitive implications of sleep (Freeze might not seem that much better but there are some mitigating factors like the opponent getting thawed by our fire moves). Very similar situation here.
 
CAP Song being a sound move feels weirdly a bit anti-concept. The concept calls for us to come in and chip stuff early game, and then aim to clean late game, and having our gameplan be "hope our team manages to chip stuff then go for a sweep" is a bit against that. Make the move category-less, remove Throat Spray cheese, and go on from there.

With that said I'm legit a bit unsure what else we need. Our standard set sorta needs every single move, and dropping any of them dramatically lowers the threat we can pose. The best argument is combining Blizzard and Thunder into Freeze dry, and then running some kind of utility last, but I'm very unsure what could compete. Perhaps Encore or Taunt, but at the same time both of those arguably let us sorta break what should be a solid check in Mollux, even if its a slow and painful process. Perhaps Focus Blast makes sense as an explicit way to target Garg, and make a bit more use of No Guard, which I'm more ok with cause Garg should feel bad.
 
Gonna second quziel and say that we should make CAP Song not a sound move (I think it being a different category based on what the move will be called and all should be on the table for flavor’s sake, but otherwise it being category-less is obviously just as fine) + we really don’t need any more tools than we’ve already approved. Even if throat spray may not necessarily manifesting our worst fears, I think given the balancing act we are trying to perform, removing throat spray as a variable is for the best to avoid that even becoming a possibility. Enabling a “come in once and sweep” set like that feels anti-concept and extremely risky, especially given how potent our other three slots are. Speaking of, I think the combo of Inferno/Blizzard/Thunder (or Tera Blast or Freeze-Dry as snake showed earlier) is basically perfect for what we want and anything more is just needless fluff. No reason to complicate this further. No Guard was explicitly chosen to largely resolve this framework’s inherent moveslot problem; overloading with various niche utility options feels pointless at best. I’m kinda just ready to call it a day with CAP36 once we decide whether the move should be sound or not.
 
Our sig move shouldn't be sound based. I think our counterplay is already pretty tricky with Fire/Ice/Electric being fantastic coverage (and all high power, too) coming off of a fast and strong Pirouette form. Incorporating Throat Spray into the mix just complicates things and makes counterplay even trickier.

Regarding other moves. We could add some utility, but realistically, I don't see it running any sets other than the Little Timmy set SunshineFuture posted. It really wants to run all of the moves in that set, and running anything that doesn't have the function of doing big damage will just make it easier to wall and won't mesh well with the cleaner nature of the mon.
 
Name: Setting Up For Our Sweep (Spikes Setter)
Move 1: (Signature Move)
Move 2: Inferno
Move 3: Freeze-Dry
Move 4: Spikes
Ability: No Guard
Tera Typing: Ice
Item: Never-Melt Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Not expecting this to get a ton of traction but I thought I'd try my hand at a Spikes set. Spikes might require some sacrifices in order to fit it, but I think it is pro concept regardless. I see the standard Fire/Ice/Electric set functioning like a Mega Evolution: You want to transform immediately and get to the good stuff as soon as possible. Running some kind of utility alongside Inferno and the burns it offers could encourage CAP 36 to stay in the defensive form longer before transforming, and I think that Spikes is a good fit to wear down opposing teams to make it easier to clean up later. Freeze-Dry is ran over Blizzard, because being walled by both Water and Fire types doesn't work. Freeze-Dry is a rather weak move, so the Never-Melt Ice and the Ice Tera type are there to make it stronger. I'm not super attached to this set, and I think the standard Little Timmy set already posted is good enough already, but I figured there isn't any harm in posting this.
 
Name: Setting Up For Our Sweep (Spikes Setter)
Move 1: (Signature Move)
Move 2: Inferno
Move 3: Freeze-Dry
Move 4: Spikes
Ability: No Guard
Tera Typing: Ice
Item: Never-Melt Ice
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Nature: Timid

Not expecting this to get a ton of traction but I thought I'd try my hand at a Spikes set. Spikes might require some sacrifices in order to fit it, but I think it is pro concept regardless. I see the standard Fire/Ice/Electric set functioning like a Mega Evolution: You want to transform immediately and get to the good stuff as soon as possible. Running some kind of utility alongside Inferno and the burns it offers could encourage CAP 36 to stay in the defensive form longer before transforming, and I think that Spikes is a good fit to wear down opposing teams to make it easier to clean up later. Freeze-Dry is ran over Blizzard, because being walled by both Water and Fire types doesn't work. Freeze-Dry is a rather weak move, so the Never-Melt Ice and the Ice Tera type are there to make it stronger. I'm not super attached to this set, and I think the standard Little Timmy set already posted is good enough already, but I figured there isn't any harm in posting this.
Disagree with Spikes. Our initial special bulk, combined with the immediate threat of transformation that forces out a lot of special sweepers, is enough to come in multiple times and set up Spikes without any negative consequences. I can see people opting for a defensive spread to set hazards and spread burns all game, with the offensive transformation and Ice coverage only acting as a deterrent. This would be pretty anti-concept. Spikes wasn't discussed as a possible option during the stats stage, and I believe that the implications of adding this move as another tool in CAP 36's arsenal are too great to just slap it on 24 hours before the moveset discussion closes.
 
Only commenting on the conversation that was started with the last 2 posts.

I dont believe there needs to be an explicit ruling regarding any form of hazards (or any other tools) at this point. I think we've managed to define the mon well with approving inferno, thunder, blizzard, and freeze dry. Trying to discuss any other additions just feels needless and feels like we are recreating the problem with all the approvals we had during Hemogoblin's process. If for whatever reason we feel inclined to include tools like this, it is likely a decision best saved for the lookback discussion.
 
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Think we're fine without hazards for now, so let's just wrap this thread up. Our final move list will be: Inferno, "CAP Song", Thunder, Freeze Dry, and Universally Assumed Moves. Pretty streamlined list.

Fire Blast
Flare Blitz
Fire Punch
Will-O-Wisp
Flamethrower
Lava Plume
Overheat
Heat Wave
Flash Cannon
Iron Head
Steel Beam
Iron Defense
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Icicle Spear
Avalanche
Icicle Crash
Endure
Facade
Helping Hand
Protect
Rest
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Take Down
Tera Blast

That's all, folks. Looking forward to the 1.0 release in a few weeks!
 
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Think we're fine without hazards for now, so let's just wrap this thread up. Our final move list will be: Inferno, "CAP Song", Thunder, and Universally Assumed Moves. Pretty streamlined list.

Fire Blast
Flare Blitz
Fire Punch
Will-O-Wisp
Flamethrower
Lava Plume
Overheat
Heat Wave
Flash Cannon
Iron Head
Steel Beam
Iron Defense
Ice Beam
Blizzard
Icicle Spear
Avalanche
Icicle Crash
Endure
Facade
Helping Hand
Protect
Rest
Sleep Talk
Substitute
Take Down
Tera Blast

That's all, folks. Looking forward to the 1.0 release in a few weeks!

Thank you to Spoo for running this through and everyone for the great moveset stage!
 
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