I want to make a post supporting this submission. I think it is cool, and should be slated. (This is in response to Da Pizza Man stating in Discord that this is not getting slated).
EDIT: The point of this post is to show that a. this spread offers meaningful differentiation from other slow spreads, b. isn't broken, and c. supports the concept.
Firstly, regarding the speed, 30 is a relevant speed tier. You naturally underspeed many Pokemon, so you have to make an active tradeoff when EVing whether or not to try to outspeed them. This is a very relevant tradeoff since a lot of these Pokemon you do want to Taunt, and you are giving up EVs in either Attack or bulk (which are both relevant).
We can consider the relevant benchmarks and the required EVs to outspeed.
60:
244 EVs55:
204 EVs50:
164 EVs45:
124 EVs35:
44 EVsIt is also viable to consider Hatterene alongside Garganacl and Dondozo, as it commonly EVs to speed-creep those two. Outspeeding Hatterene can be relevant since if we outspeed, we can use Beak Blast + Knock Off to attack twice before Draining Kiss recovery.
Next, we can consider the attack. 170 may seem excessive, but it is in the context of this Pokemon having:
1. No boosting moves
2. No boosting ability (unless opponent feeds it boosts)
3. Almost forced HDB (no boosting item)
4. Poor speed, and negative priority on primary STAB
The first 3 points mean that our damage output is entirely contingent on our Attack stat, and cannot scale via multipliers. The 4th point means we are always trading HP for damage (outside of Sucker Punch, which I will discuss later). It is notable that multipliers can make slightly above-average Attack stats outshine a massive Attack stat with no multipliers. For instance, 120 Attack with Analytic is equivalent to 170 Attack with no boosting ability (with 252+ investment).
I will include some calcs compared to strong but slow wallbreakers to show this is not some unprecedented amount of power. All of these Pokemon have bulky, slow spreads, though all faster than this proposed spread and several having access to boosting (Swords Dance).
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 144-171 (28.5 - 33.9%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 261-307 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
172+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 174-206 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 62.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 153-181 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Supercell Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 160-190 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 261-307 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
172+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 174-206 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 62.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 153-181 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Supercell Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 160-190 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
I think it is interesting that the calcs are assuming 0 Atk EVs and no boosting nature. We can consider Pokemon like Kyurem-B and Hoopa-U, who have various spreads that prioritize HP, Atk, SpA, or Spe (look at Kyu-B's XY dex on Smogon, for example). We should expect , but there are also relevant benchmarks for Speed (as discussed above), Attack, and bulk. I think there is ample incentive to invest in Attack, but this comes at a real cost.
I will note that 2HKO bulky Gholdengo with a combo of Knock Off and Sucker Punch is pretty irrelevant. Bulky Ghold in CAP is pretty rare already due to blanking into Equilibra, but also it can click Thunder Wave -> switch.
The point of the following calcs is to show that there are relevant benchmarks across the spectrum of investment, from 0 Atk to 252+ Atk, and from close to 0 HP/0 Def/0 SpD and 252 HP/252+ Def. Given that there are also speed benchmarks, I think this is well-balanced where a player can choose . There are also many failed calcs where this spread simply can't hit the benchmark needed to 1v1 a Pokemon. This was the case for almost every Pokemon on our Checks/Counters list (SpDef Shox barely dies, but ngl Shox should be running Def anyways).
0 Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking-Galar: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
36 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Revenankh: 384-452 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
32 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chromera: 156-184 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 336-396 (103.3 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
148+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 324-382 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
168+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Snaelstrom: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Shox: 238-282 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Failed calcs:
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 348-410 (93.8 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 300-354 (95.2 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (assuming Balloon is popped)
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Cresceidon: 301-355 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- not a KO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 272-323 (67.3 - 79.9%) -- not a KO
248+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 284-337 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- not a KO
36 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Revenankh: 384-452 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
32 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chromera: 156-184 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 336-396 (103.3 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
148+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 324-382 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
168+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Snaelstrom: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
168+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 162-192 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 159-187 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 159-187 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Failed calcs:
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 348-410 (93.8 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 300-354 (95.2 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (assuming Balloon is popped)
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Cresceidon: 301-355 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- not a KO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 272-323 (67.3 - 79.9%) -- not a KO
248+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 284-337 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- not a KO
Neutral Nature
4 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 135-160 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain over 2 turns vs. 60 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 274-325 (84 - 99.6%) -- not a KO
252+ Atk Triage Revenankh Drain Punch vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 146-172 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Honchkrow: 316-373 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Honchkrow: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Honchkrow: 157-186 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Honchkrow: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
4 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 135-160 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain over 2 turns vs. 60 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 274-325 (84 - 99.6%) -- not a KO
252+ Atk Triage Revenankh Drain Punch vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 146-172 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Honchkrow: 316-373 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Honchkrow: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Honchkrow: 157-186 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Honchkrow: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Finally, I want to discuss Sucker Punch. I think this move definitely is a bit dangerous given the high Attack stat. 170 is approximately the power output of 0 fallen Black Glasses Kingambit, or 2 fallen Kingambit with no boosting item. We have probably a better defensive profile, and access to Roost and Knock Off, but Kingambit has access to some additional speed and Swords Dance. I think this makes Kingambit much more reliable as a win-condition, but if this spread has Sucker Punch, it will allow CAP37 to efficiently trade, deny setup, and limit what can threaten it (eg. denying Ogerpon-W from trading into it after some chip). It is possible this is too powerful, so I wouldn't be opposed to it getting cut (though assumed moves are non-binding, so even if this spread wins, Sucker Punch isn't guaranteed).
Without Sucker Punch, this Pokemon will be a lot easier to trade into than Chromera, who is basically considered fine. It also adds incentive to investing in Speed for Encore / Taunt, which makes building this Pokemon more interesting. I don't see why this spread is out of line power-wise to where it can't be slated.
EDIT 2: I'm not sure where to put this part, but I'll just insert a blurb re: concept fulfillment. People have been talking about dissuading switches with damage since Beak Blast was selectted as our build-around move. There's a reason Analytic (and Stakeout) were top contenders during primary ability. Thus, I think it's in line with the concept and envisioned role if CAP37 has high attack. The high bulk and low speed offset the negatives of Beak Blast's -3 priority as well.
Anyways, I don't hate any of the 50-65 speed subs, but I think it is worth exploring this end of the spectrum as far as Speed / Power tradeoffs goes. I also think the 80-90 speed subs with 100-110 Attack are worth exploring, even if I am not a fan of them personally.
Finally, I will note that it is a bit hard to find any Pokemon comparable to what we are doing here. The closest I could find was SS Buzzwole, which was a bulky Physical tank with recovery. This is not a perfect comparison though, because Buzzwole has item flexibility, boosting with Bulk Up, can absorb Knock Off, and SS metagame was much different (heavy prevalence of Toxic).
There are also our unique properties that are very difficult to evaluate. Opportunist scales well with stats as well; if we have high stats, we will trade very efficiently as the opponent can't boost past us without significant risk. On the other hand, not enough stats means the opponent doesn't need boosting to trade with us. There is also the X-factor of Beak Blast burns. Frankly, I have no idea how to evaluate the power level of this (I'm not sure anyone does). Ramnarok feels very polarizing right now depending on if you brought a bulky SpDef fire / Garganacl / Cloak Rev or not so it is possible this mon is also very annoying to deal with. I can see arguments for leaning weaker / stronger (I think it will be very difficult to hit the mark on the first try here) but imo this should be decided at poll and tuned during PPL.
PS.
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