CAP 37 - Part 9 - Stat Spread Submissions

[Spammernoob]

WIP

85 HP / 170 Atk / 125 Def / 30 SpA / 125 SpD / 30 Spe (BST: 565)
PS: 96.43
SS: 33.21
PT: 129.67
ST: 129.96
BSR: 579.18
Assumed Moves: Beak Blast, Knock Off, 50% Recovery, Taunt, Universally Assumed Moves, Sucker Punch (-10 PS), Body Press
Assumed Spread: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD - Impish Nature or 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD - Careful Nature

This spread focuses on being able to hit hard with Beak Blast without the need for any Attack investment at all, allowing for full investment in bulk to better sponge hits from various threats. 170 Attack allows for CAP37 to comfortably 2HKO Arghonaut and defensive Great Tusk with Beak Blast, 2HKO bulky Zamazenta with Beak Blast after hazard chip, 2HKO bulky Gholdengo with a combo of Knock Off and Sucker Punch, and OHKO Glowking with Knock Off, all with 0 Attack EVs. 125 Defense, along with max Defense investment, also makes this set a scary user of Body Press, notably being able to straight up OHKO Kingambit with hazards up with Body Press.

Offensive Calcs

0 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 248 HP / 224+ Def Arghonaut: 260-308 (62.9 - 74.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Great Tusk: 270-320 (62.2 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. +1 252 HP / 88 Def Zamazenta: 188-224 (48.4 - 57.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 260-308 (68.7 - 81.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Honchkrow Sucker Punch vs. 252 HP / 196+ Def Gholdengo: 188-224 (49.7 - 59.2%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
0 Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking-Galar: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ogerpon-Wellspring: 396-468 (131.5 - 155.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Def Honchkrow Body Press vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 316-376 (92.6 - 110.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

On the physically defensive side, the 125 Defense with max EV investment also allows CAP37 to act as a solid physical wall, tanking physical hits with extreme ease to burn opposing physical attackers with Beak Blast even more easily. Many powerful physical attackers, like Kingambit, Wogerpon, and Dragonite, rely on boosting their own Attack stats with Swords Dance or Dragon Dance to be able to 2HKO a physically defensive CAP37 reliably, which is of course extremely dangerous for them with our 170 Attack and Opportunist to copy their SDs and DDs and boost said Attack stat to even crazier levels.

Physically Defensive Calcs

252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 3 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Honchkrow: 118-141 (31.5 - 37.7%) -- 88.9% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Honchkrow: 136-162 (36.3 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Honchkrow: 115-136 (30.7 - 36.3%) -- 58.2% chance to 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Play Rough vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Honchkrow: 138-164 (36.8 - 43.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Dragonite Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Honchkrow: 122-144 (32.6 - 38.5%) -- 98.2% chance to 3HKO
+1 252+ Atk Dragonite Ice Spinner vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Honchkrow: 180-214 (48.1 - 57.2%) -- 93.4% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Honchkrow: 166-198 (44.3 - 52.9%) -- 23.4% chance to 2HKO

CAP37's potential as a special tank shouldn't be underestimated either, though. It can easily switch things up from physical to special to catch Pokemon like Darkrai, Cresceidon, Gholdengo, Glowking, and Dragapult off guard.

Specially Defensive Calcs

252 SpA Darkrai Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Honchkrow: 124-148 (33.1 - 39.5%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Cresceidon Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Honchkrow: 116-138 (31 - 36.8%) -- 65.4% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Honchkrow: 124-147 (33.1 - 39.3%) -- 99.9% chance to 3HKO
152+ SpA Slowking-Galar Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Honchkrow: 110-130 (29.4 - 34.7%) -- 8.8% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Dragapult Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Honchkrow: 163-193 (43.5 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO

This immense amount of physical Attack and bulk does come at the cost of this spread having neutered Speed - it'll struggle to naturally outspeed anything not named Glowking. However, since Beak Blast is a negative priority move anyways, CAP37 is already going to be moving last in many scenarios anyways, and in the few scenarios where it does want to move first, this spread has Sucker Punch as an Assumed Move to work around the low speed. All in all, I like to describe this spread as "what Rampardos should have been": it's not outspeeding much, but it eats hits up and hits back twice as hard.

I want to make a post supporting this submission. I think it is cool, and should be slated. (This is in response to Da Pizza Man stating in Discord that this is not getting slated).

EDIT: The point of this post is to show that a. this spread offers meaningful differentiation from other slow spreads, b. isn't broken, and c. supports the concept.

Firstly, regarding the speed, 30 is a relevant speed tier. You naturally underspeed many Pokemon, so you have to make an active tradeoff when EVing whether or not to try to outspeed them. This is a very relevant tradeoff since a lot of these Pokemon you do want to Taunt, and you are giving up EVs in either Attack or bulk (which are both relevant).

We can consider the relevant benchmarks and the required EVs to outspeed.
60: 244 EVs
55: 204 EVs
50: 164 EVs
45: 124 EVs
35: 44 EVs

It is also viable to consider Hatterene alongside Garganacl and Dondozo, as it commonly EVs to speed-creep those two. Outspeeding Hatterene can be relevant since if we outspeed, we can use Beak Blast + Knock Off to attack twice before Draining Kiss recovery.


Next, we can consider the attack. 170 may seem excessive, but it is in the context of this Pokemon having:
1. No boosting moves
2. No boosting ability (unless opponent feeds it boosts)
3. Almost forced HDB (no boosting item)
4. Poor speed, and negative priority on primary STAB

The first 3 points mean that our damage output is entirely contingent on our Attack stat, and cannot scale via multipliers. The 4th point means we are always trading HP for damage (outside of Sucker Punch, which I will discuss later). It is notable that multipliers can make slightly above-average Attack stats outshine a massive Attack stat with no multipliers. For instance, 120 Attack with Analytic is equivalent to 170 Attack with no boosting ability (with 252+ investment).

I will include some calcs compared to strong but slow wallbreakers to show this is not some unprecedented amount of power. All of these Pokemon have bulky, slow spreads, though all faster than this proposed spread and several having access to boosting (Swords Dance).

Power Comparison

252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 144-171 (28.5 - 33.9%) -- 98.3% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Ursaluna Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 261-307 (51.7 - 60.9%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
172+ Atk Iron Fist Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 174-206 (34.5 - 40.8%) -- 62.3% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 153-181 (30.3 - 35.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Supercell Slam vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tera Normal Dondozo: 160-190 (31.7 - 37.6%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

I think it is interesting that the calcs are assuming 0 Atk EVs and no boosting nature. We can consider Pokemon like Kyurem-B and Hoopa-U, who have various spreads that prioritize HP, Atk, SpA, or Spe (look at Kyu-B's XY dex on Smogon, for example). We should expect , but there are also relevant benchmarks for Speed (as discussed above), Attack, and bulk. I think there is ample incentive to invest in Attack, but this comes at a real cost.

I will note that 2HKO bulky Gholdengo with a combo of Knock Off and Sucker Punch is pretty irrelevant. Bulky Ghold in CAP is pretty rare already due to blanking into Equilibra, but also it can click Thunder Wave -> switch.

The point of the following calcs is to show that there are relevant benchmarks across the spectrum of investment, from 0 Atk to 252+ Atk, and from close to 0 HP/0 Def/0 SpD and 252 HP/252+ Def. Given that there are also speed benchmarks, I think this is well-balanced where a player can choose . There are also many failed calcs where this spread simply can't hit the benchmark needed to 1v1 a Pokemon. This was the case for almost every Pokemon on our Checks/Counters list (SpDef Shox barely dies, but ngl Shox should be running Def anyways).

Offensive benchmarks (ascending investment requirements)

0 Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Slowking-Galar: 398-470 (101 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
36 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Revenankh: 384-452 (100 - 117.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
32 Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Chromera: 156-184 (50.1 - 59.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zamazenta: 336-396 (103.3 - 121.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
148+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast over 2 turns vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Dragonite: 324-382 (100.3 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed KO in 2 turns
168+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Snaelstrom: 386-456 (100 - 118.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Hatt calc (relevant if we outspeed)

168+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 162-192 (50.9 - 60.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
168+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Hatterene: 159-187 (50 - 58.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Shox: 238-282 (50 - 59.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Failed calcs:
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Great Tusk: 348-410 (93.8 - 110.5%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gholdengo: 300-354 (95.2 - 112.3%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO (assuming Balloon is popped)
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Cresceidon: 301-355 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- not a KO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 252 HP / 52 Def Garganacl: 272-323 (67.3 - 79.9%) -- not a KO
248+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) over 2 turns vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Zapdos: 284-337 (74.1 - 87.9%) -- not a KO

Bulk benchmarks (ascending investment requirements)

Neutral Nature
4 Atk Great Tusk Close Combat vs. 40 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 135-160 (42 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain over 2 turns vs. 60 HP / 4 SpD Honchkrow: 274-325 (84 - 99.6%) -- not a KO
252+ Atk Triage Revenankh Drain Punch vs. 128 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 96-114 (27.9 - 33.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
252 Atk Great Tusk Ice Spinner vs. 136 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 146-172 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Close Combat vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Ogerpon-Wellspring Ivy Cudgel vs. 208 HP / 0 Def Honchkrow: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 SpA Gholdengo Make It Rain vs. 252 HP / 44 SpD Honchkrow: 316-373 (84.4 - 99.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Zamazenta Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 96 Def Honchkrow: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Supreme Overlord 5 allies fainted Kingambit Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 184 Def Honchkrow: 157-186 (41.9 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Wellspring Mask Tera Water Ogerpon-Wellspring-Tera Ivy Cudgel vs. 252 HP / 212+ Def Honchkrow: 158-186 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Finally, I want to discuss Sucker Punch. I think this move definitely is a bit dangerous given the high Attack stat. 170 is approximately the power output of 0 fallen Black Glasses Kingambit, or 2 fallen Kingambit with no boosting item. We have probably a better defensive profile, and access to Roost and Knock Off, but Kingambit has access to some additional speed and Swords Dance. I think this makes Kingambit much more reliable as a win-condition, but if this spread has Sucker Punch, it will allow CAP37 to efficiently trade, deny setup, and limit what can threaten it (eg. denying Ogerpon-W from trading into it after some chip). It is possible this is too powerful, so I wouldn't be opposed to it getting cut (though assumed moves are non-binding, so even if this spread wins, Sucker Punch isn't guaranteed).

Without Sucker Punch, this Pokemon will be a lot easier to trade into than Chromera, who is basically considered fine. It also adds incentive to investing in Speed for Encore / Taunt, which makes building this Pokemon more interesting. I don't see why this spread is out of line power-wise to where it can't be slated.

EDIT 3: dex's post below shows concern towards Sucker with 170 Attack. I think this concern is reasonable, as laid out above. After discussion, I am probably in favor of removing Sucker from the movepool if we get a spread like this. However, it really doesn't address the no-Sucker case, which is just not comparable with Kingambit.

EDIT 2: I'm not sure where to put this part, but I'll just insert a blurb re: concept fulfillment. People have been talking about dissuading switches with damage since Beak Blast was selectted as our build-around move. There's a reason Analytic (and Stakeout) were top contenders during primary ability. Thus, I think it's in line with the concept and envisioned role if CAP37 has high attack. The high bulk and low speed offset the negatives of Beak Blast's -3 priority as well.

Anyways, I don't hate any of the 50-65 speed subs, but I think it is worth exploring this end of the spectrum as far as Speed / Power tradeoffs goes. I also think the 80-90 speed subs with 100-110 Attack are worth exploring, even if I am not a fan of them personally.

Finally, I will note that it is a bit hard to find any Pokemon comparable to what we are doing here. The closest I could find was SS Buzzwole, which was a bulky Physical tank with recovery. This is not a perfect comparison though, because Buzzwole has item flexibility, boosting with Bulk Up, can absorb Knock Off, and SS metagame was much different (heavy prevalence of Toxic).

There are also our unique properties that are very difficult to evaluate. Opportunist scales well with stats as well; if we have high stats, we will trade very efficiently as the opponent can't boost past us without significant risk. On the other hand, not enough stats means the opponent doesn't need boosting to trade with us. There is also the X-factor of Beak Blast burns. Frankly, I have no idea how to evaluate the power level of this (I'm not sure anyone does). Ramnarok feels very polarizing right now depending on if you brought a bulky SpDef fire / Garganacl / Cloak Rev or not so it is possible this mon is also very annoying to deal with. I can see arguments for leaning weaker / stronger (I think it will be very difficult to hit the mark on the first try here) but imo this should be decided at poll and tuned during PPL.

PS.

 

[dex]

I’m against any spread that breaches the 150+ Attack barrier. Kingambit is being used as an example of how this level of power plays out; however, there are some big differences between this Pokémon and Kingambit:

1. CAP 37 has access to 50% recovery
2. CAP 37 has two great STAB moves in Beak Blast (much better than STAB Iron Head) and Knock Off (so so much better than Kowtow Cleave)
3. These spreads all have superior mixed bulk

I don’t think the 170 attack spread would be necessarily broken, but I do think it would be very easily broke, if that makes sense. I won’t pretend that I know exactly how things play out in Pokemon, but I do think that, because of the above differences, this Pokemon would be much more menacing than Kingambit offensively. The 194 attack spread I would give a very hard no to, it further exacerbates the issue.

Of the high Attack spreads, I particularly like Scizivire’s, I think it strikes a good balance of bulk tradeoffs and power.

 

[Spammernoob]

Just wanted to make a post regarding how stats interact with Opportunist, and an interesting (imo) interaction I thought of yesterday regarding damage breakpoints.

Opportunist is a very interesting ability in how it interacts with stats. As I alluded to in my previous post, this ability scales very well with stats, since it denies setup as an avenue of outtrading. However, there was also discussion on Discord regarding the deterrence capabilities of Opportunist; namely, that CAP37 existing on a team dissuades the opponent from setting up. I want to investigate this question in-depth in this post.

Firstly, I will assume no real human is clicking a setup move in front of CAP37, unless they are Unaware (eg. Curse Dondozo, BU Arghonaut, Torch Song Skeledirge). This is because doing so will never help you win the 1v1.

Additionally, note that most setup attackers can just attack if they expect CAP37 to come in. This is similar to Magic Bounce, except a. denying Hazards and status is much more warping than denying setup (we can argue this if you want, though I don't think there is much argument against it). and b. Opportunist doesn't actually fully deny setup (as will be elucidated below).

Next, I will go through common setup moves and their users, and note what stat breakpoints are relevant for each matchup, assuming CAP37 switches in as they boost. I will make a note of when Sucker Punch changes an interaction as well. Assumed EVs are 252HP/252+Atk for conversion from raw stats to base. For all bulk benchmarks, I will use base 100 HP / X Defense / X SpDef, though any equivalent spread works. All stat benchmarks are worst case (max roll for opponent, min roll for us) to guarantee a winning interaction.

EDIT: put large block of MUs in hide tags. Hopefully this means people read the paragraphs describing the point of this post before getting too far in the weeds.

Bulk Up

Revenankh always loses this without Tera Fire due to Beak Blast burn. That being said, if your opponent clicks BU with Rev vs CAP37 then they are literally a bot. Rev is the easiest free switch for CAP37 (asssuming standard set, though we will likely see Knock > Shadow Claw soon) by design.
We do not win this unless a. we live 1 Espeed and KO back with Beak Blast (need 647 Atk [Base 245] vs 40HP Hemogoblin, literally impossible vs. 200HP Hemogoblin) or we live 3 Espeeds (never happening within these PT limits). Tera is an X-factor, as Hemo cannot Tera without eating Beak Blast Burn, while we can Tera to win 1v1.
Great Tusk with BU is usually Booster Speed. I will map out lines vs. EQ/Stone Edge/Taunt and Headlong/CC/Spinner, though the former might be rarer in CAP due to Equilibra.
Against the second set, nothing really hits hard enough except CC if we have less than 100/70 bulk. This is easy to discount. Against Stone Edge, we need to 2HKO with Beak Blast (298 Atk [Base 86]) while avoiding 2HKO from Stone Edge (404/254 [Base 100/109]). Alternatively, we can live 1 Stone Edge and just OHKO Tusk, but this isn't happening until 601 Atk (Base 224). btw, If we get crit, we just die. Unlucky.
If CAP37 is not running Encore/Taunt, Arghonaut has no reason not to set up to +6. In this case, we need to be able to pressure it with Beak Blast. Note that our first Beak Blast will be after Arghonaut is +2, and Argh Recovers before Beak Blast connects. Thus, we need to a. outspeed Arghonaut, and b. kill with a combination of Beak Blast vs +2, Beak Blast vs +3, Knock Off vs +3. This require about 434 Atk [Base 148] vs 252/4 Argh. The alternative is to do >50% with Beak Blast even vs. +3, eschewing the need for outspeeding, which requires about 548 Atk (Base 200).

Calcs

252+ Atk Honchkrow Beak Blast over 2 turns vs. +2 248 HP / 4 Def Stamina Arghonaut: 374-444 (90.5 - 107.5%) -- 36.7% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Honchkrow Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. +3 248 HP / 4 Def Arghonaut: 40-48 (9.6 - 11.6%) -- possible 9HKO

If we are Taunt/Encore, we should always win vs. non-Tera Fire sets (Arghonaut prefers Tera Steel for Hatt/Toxic afaik) due to burn, though switching in to Knock Off is a concern.

Swords Dance

If we are Sucker Punch and the Ogerpon isn't SD Encore, then we need 408 Atk (Base 136) to OHKO with +2 Sucker (what the fuck) (if it is then we have to mindgame).
If they have Tera available, we need to live +2 Tera Ivy Cudgel (404HP/346Def [Base 100/155]), and OHKO with +2 Beak Blast (287 Atk [Base 81]). If no tera available, we need to live +2 Ivy Cudgel (404HP/258Def [Base 100/111]) and OHKO with +2 Beak Blast (trivial).
I will assume Adamant Life Orb, as that is the set I saw the most recently. If we outspeed (At least 74 Spe) and live a Shadow Sneak, we OHKO with +2 Knock Off (trivial). If we have Sucker and win mind-games vs Shadow Sneak, we OHKO (trivial). Otherwise, we need to live +2 Bitter Blade (404HP/258Def [Base 100/111]).
I will assume 5 fallen Kingambit, though if you think this is unreasonable then we can discuss. This MU is weird because both STABs are resisted. Kingambit also has fast spreads (252Spe Ada, 252Spe Jolly) and slow spreads (44-56Spe Ada) that make this kind of weird. I'll try to cover worst case (200HP/252+Atk).
Firstly, we need to deny Kingambit another SD. This can be done by 2HKOing with +4 Beak Blast (339 Atk [Base 105]), and living +4 Iron Head in return (never happening), or outspeeding, and 2HKOing with +4 Beak Blast into +4 Knock Off (344 Atk [Base 107])
If we deny the SD, we then need to 1v1 +2 Kingambit, This can be done by outspeeding and leveraging Beak Blast burn + Roost, or living +2 Iron Head -> +2 burned Iron Head (equivalent to +4 Iron Head, never happening).
I will mention that if Kingambit is Tera Fairy w/ Tera Blast, we lose outright.
Nice Opportunist, lol. Beak Blast should always nuke this guy, assuming you live +2 Scale Shot (404/250). Notable calcs are Sucker vs -0 and -1 Def Miasmaw. The thresholds are 645 (244 Base... lol) and 430 (146 Base).
There realistically is no way we live a hit from Caribolt without Tera. For +2 Double Edge with Tera, we need about 404/240 (Base 100/102). +2 Beak Blast OHKOs at trivial ranges (287 Atk [Base 81]) but +2 Sucker requires 410 Atk (Base 137).
I will assume SpDef SD Snael with Razor Shell/Facade. If it is Toxic, you are pretty owned.
We just need to kill with +2 Beak Blast while living +2 Facade. Both of these are completely trivial. I assume Tera Normal calcs will be similar to Gliscor's, so refer to next section (I am just lazy)
I will assume SpDef SD Gliscor with Facade/Knock. We need 54Spe to outspeed min-speed Gliscor w/ 252 Jolly, though 252 Jolly on CAP37 seems troll.
Gliscor Protect shenanigans are quite annoying. I'll just calculate simple benchmarks (live 2 +2 Facades, 2HKO with 2 turns of Poison Heal).
Eating 2 +2 Facades requires 404/266 bulk (Base 100/110). 2HKOing with +2 Beak Blast requires 302 Atk (Base 88).
With Tera Normal, we need an absurd 404/400 bulk (Base 100/182). It is easier to just OHKO Gliscor with +2 Beak Blast, which requires 485 Atk (Base 171).
Realistically you're getting Knocked here and heavily limited on switch-ins by SR. Maybe in endgame we will actually see something like this play out though.
We either outspeed and kill with +2 Knock Off, or we die to +2 Facade. This requires 449 Atk (Base 155) vs 4HP Ursaluna after 1 Burn tick, so... I don't think we are outspeeding and killing.
We need to live +2 Close Combat (404/352 [Base 100/158]) or Spirit Break (Way outside PT bounds) and OHKO back with +2 Beak Blast (trivial)

Dragon Dance

This guy is very weird. I'll mainly consider Jolly DD with Extremespeed/Ice Spinner/Earthquake.
I think this should be a winning MU for us in most cases. Living +1 Ice Spinner -> +1 burned Ice Spinner takes 404/278 (Base 100/121), and it is trivial to Roost through the rest. Living +2 Ice Spinner (404/248 [Base 100/106]) and 2HKOing with +2 Beak Blast through Multiscale is also pretty easy.
Of course, Tera Blast Fairy is epic ownage, as is Tera Blast Flying (need 404/316 [Base 100/140] to not get 2HKO'd). Tera Blast Flying can be swung with Sucker, though if it is Encore or Roost your life is over.
We can consider the case of vs. Wave Crash and vs. Facade. Vs. Wave Crash, we win if we can eat +1 (404/270 [Base 100/117] and OHKO back with Knock + 2 turns of burn + recoil (~35%) which is basically trivial (need +1 Knock to do 52% lol...).
Vs. Facade, we need to live 2 +1 Facades (not happening), or live 1 +1 Facade and kill with Knock Off + 1 turn of Burn, which requires 339 Atk (Base 105) after 1 turn of Burn
We also want to deny a second DD with Knock, which is same calc as above.
Sucker Punch is pretty awkward here due to Slack Off but should be weighted towards us if it does >50%.
We simply never eat +1 Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. full Physical DD sets, and +1 Sucker never OHKOs. If we somehow live a hit, we need 474 Atk (Base 166) to OHKO with Beak Blast.

Calm Mind

Realistically, this is equivalent to Unaware but we get out of the MU with a +1 SpDef.
This matchup is very finnicky given, but realistically Clef should win. There's really no way to 2HKO this guy and it just trolls forever. If anyone is interested in mapping out the lines on Discord, ping me.
We must outspeed, live 1 Moonblast (404/232 [Base 100/98]), and KO with Knock Off + Beak Blast after 1 Leftovers (397 Atk [Base 131]), or if we underspeed, OHKO with Beak Blast (548 Atk [Base 200]).
The only hope here is to live 1 Moonblast (404/222 [Base 100/93]) and OHKO with Beak Blast (474 Atk [Base 166]). If it clicks Substitute on the switch, by the way, there is no hope.
The relevant calc here is to outspeed Hatt and KO with the combination of Knock + Beak Blast with Burn and Leftovers. This requires 456 Atk (Base 158). Maybe there are other routes, but it's very volatile vs. Draining Kiss healing.
I'm not really sure how to evaluate this without Tera on Chromera. Unfortunately, this also has Recover, which makes Sucker Punch hard to evaluate. Beak Blast never OHKOs (needs 386 Atk [Base 126] to 2HKO) and Tera Normal Boomburst on Timid Silk Scarf Chromera doesn't OHKO at 404/234 (Base 100/99). I think this is not a winning MU for CAP37 no matter what.
We must live 1 Moonblast (404/232 [Base 100/98]), and KO with Beak Blast (trivial).
I will assume Booster Speed offensive CM. I think Idef Stored Power suffers a similar fate as Latias.
Here, we need to live 2 Tachyons (404/226 [Base 100/85]) and kill with 2 Knock Offs (291 Atk [Base 83]), or live 1 Tachyon (trivial) and KO with Knock Off + Sucker (too lazy for this one, but a bit lower threshold than 2 Knocks). Tera Steel is a concern, as is Tera Fighting on the second turn.
This is not worth benchmarking since CAP37 is so farmed. Our best output vs 65BP Knock Off while we eat Proto SpA Thunderbolts. You can live 1 Tbolt with 404/304 (Base 100/134) and stall with Roosts but you aren't 2HKOing with Knock until 614 Atk (Base 230) so what's the point.
This is not worth benchmarking since Latias is so farmed.

Nasty Plot

What are we even doing here. NP does nothing for CAP37.
I'll list some guys, but I don't feel like doing benchmarks. To be honest, you can probably find calcs for these in other posts. Ping me on Discord if you are interested in discussing any in-depth.

Iron Defense

Realistically, all of these should lose without Tera Fire. Zama might troll us with Roar. Corviknight and Skarmory are on our list of mons we beat, so this is fine.

Curse

If we lose to Garg without Curse, surely we lose to it with Curse. I don't think Taunt -> Knock -> Roost loop is enough to win, maybe Taunt -> Knock -> Roost -> Taunt -> Roost -> Roost? I'm too lazy to calc these.
I think without Taunt/Encore we lose this for free since Dondozo just Rests off the burns and gets boosts for forever. At least we Knock it and can leave. Taunt -> Knock -> Roost loop might win if we take low damage from +1 burned Waterfall (and we always outspeed after Dozo is -1).

Compilation of breakpoints for submitters to compare (base is with assumed spread; compare raw stats with the stats of your submission w/ assumed EVs. Note that these are only for switching in on a setup move. All the other relevant benchmarks you hopefully have already.

Note: you can likely hit stuff past the PT limit w/ sufficient Def investment, though it really seems not worth to me.

Atk benchmarks

287 Atk [Base 81] (Beak Blast)
291 Atk [Base 83]
302 Atk [Base 88] (2HKO)
339 Atk [Base 105]
344 Atk [Base 107] (Outspeed)
397 Atk [Base 131] (Outspeed)
410 Atk [Base 137] (Sucker)
430 (Base 146] (Sucker, -1)
434 Atk [Base 148] (BU, no Taunt)
449 Atk [Base 155] (Outspeed)
456 Atk [Base 158]
474 Atk [Base 166]
474 Atk [Base 166]
485 Atk ([171] (OHKO)
548 Atk [Base 200] (Underspeed)

248Atk / 1Spe (114.99 PS)
Aim for the stars.

Def benchmarks

404/240 [Base 100/102] (Tera)
404/254 [Base 100/109] (BU, Edge)
404/266 bulk (Base 100/110)
404HP/258Def [Base 100/111]
404HP/258Def [Base 100/111]
404/270 [Base 100/117]
404/278 [Base 100/121]
PT Limit: 100/127
404HP/346Def [Base 100/155] (Tera)
404/352 [Base 100/158] (Swords Dance)

SpD benchmarks

404/226 [Base 100/85]
404/222 [Base 100/93]
404/232 [Base 100/98]
404/232 [Base 100/98]
ST Limit: 100/122

I'll summarize my thoughts after making this below:
If we don't have Sucker, we are getting out of these trades at low HP. Realistically, the only boosts we're farming are Bulk Up boosts (and maybe Iron Defense? at the cost of much PP). Do we ever kill another mon after eating a +2 Ivy Cudgel? I feel like the answer is no, though it depends a bit on the matchup and how fast we end up being. Thus, I think the threat of CAP37 switching in to steal a boost is not as threatening as one might think (without Sucker).

Sucker definitely throws a wrench in these calculations. Sucker's impact hyper scales with chip, basically sniping kills for free and running away with a boost. That being said, you are not getting any chip on the turn the opponent sets up (as you need to swap in CAP37). Thus, CAP37 really scales hard with hazards. I really think that Sucker Punch will push this over the edge in terms of basically stopping breakers from clicking SD ever, which is pretty toxic. I do not feel like doing all the benchmarks again factoring in SR, but if anyone else thinks it's relevant, please make a post.

Finally, as we discussed in Roles, CAP37 doesn't really get free switches into a lot. There is always a risk of eating a ton of damage as you try to steal a boost, being forced out, and losing the interaction the next time. Eating any damage on CAP37 hinders its ability to actually fire off a Beak Blast without dying, so this is a pretty significant risk (even if it's someone offset by Roost).

This is only talking about when CAP37 switches in on a boosting mon. There is still the consideration of CAP37 trading extremely efficiently w/ it's stats since the opponent can't set up in front of it; this is notable since CAP37 has Roost (and potential burn output from Beak Blast) meaning it can just stonewall certain Pokemon (like Great Tusk / Dragonite / Revenankh mentioned above, but also likely many more). spoo had concerns that this has the potential to nuke HO as a style from CAP, or limit it to special-spam, which is not ideal as HO is already heavily limited in this format. This is definitely something interesting to consider, though a bit outside the scope of this post so I will leave it to other people to talk about it if they are interested.


Let me know if I missed anything relevant.


Part 2
Regarding damage breakpoints: I think, when making calcs, it's important not only to look at the turn-by-turn damage output and damage breakpoints, but how the entire 1v1 plays out. Beak Blast is a very weird move due to its Burn on contact effect, and sometimes less damage is better overall.

Here is an interesting example with Great Tusk. I am assuming Ice Spinner does around 50% to CAP37. In an interaction where Great Tusk clicks Ice Spinner into Beak Blast to trade damage, we can consider how much damage CAP37 does in return:

If Beak Blast does >93.75% damage, Great Tusk dies, and CAP37 ends with 50% HP
If Beak Blast does between 87.5% and 93.75% damage, Great Tusk dies next turn, aand CAP37 ends withh 75% HP and -1 Roost pp
If Beak Blast does between 81.25% and 87.5% damage, Great Tusk dies in 2 turns, and CAP37 ends with 100% HP and -2 Roosts pp
Each additional turn in this trade just means 1 additional Roost pp, or the CAP37 user can opt to conserve Roost pp by using Beak Blast again at the cost of 25% HP.
The interaction is different if Sucker is in play, as CAP37 can click Sucker once it's at full HP and Great Tusk is in range to conserve Roosts.

Note: this is not an argument for 170Atk. I haven't gone through all the Pokemon to see how this plays out, or weighted the pros and cons of winning this interaction vs. potentially losing others. It is simply a call to think a bit more deeply about the calcs you are including.

 

[Guingil]

Wow Spammer really lives up to his name huh

After my initial skepticism regarding StarFalcon555's spread, where they asked for feedback on Discord and I believe I was the first to reply and bring up concerns regarding BSR abuse, I have since been convinced (by Spammernoob's two posts, and some discussion on Discord) that it deserves a chance to be on the slate for the distinct character it brings to 37, which is still pro-concept.

Essentially, without introducing the complications of Sucker Punch at this stage, I think a lot of our builds end up being trade machines. Regarding the point whether we are comparable to Hatterene in preventing some strategy (status moves for Hatt, set-up for us), I think Spammer's second post shows that 37 is likely to end up losing substantial health while it fires off its own boosted move with an Opportunist. Sure, fine. But I think a lot of our appeal still comes from progressively, as well as in 1v1s, limiting options for opponents so that they are forced to trade with us disadvantageously. This is done through our entire kit rather than the ability alone, which is affected by Speed.

Knock Off making trades easier is pretty self-explanatory, forces chip on matchups to soften them up for endgame 1v1s. Only interaction here with lower speed is some Beak + faster Knock interactions not being possible anymore, but I think the Speed interaction with the other moves is more interesting here.

Roost, especially if we are bulky, acts as a reset button and allows us to trade again at any point down the line. Despite Kingambit being brought up as comparison for this build, for some reason Chromera keeps booming into my mind (and to a much lesser extent, Naviathan). That much damage and the ability to heal up against some targets? Sure, our damage even with 170 Attack still isn't too comparable to a Tera Normal Boomburst (going off vibes here rather than actual calcs, but I remember Stakeout actually having a comparable output to Boom with 115 Atk rather than the pseudo-Analytic boost this spread provides), but it's still a lot. But a lower Speed on Roost basically ensures we can never heal up first against anything, which is also something that was brought up as an impact of speed during stat limits (say we're at 25% against something that deals 30%, faster Recovery saves us here). And this is a real tradeoff as well.

Taunt is one of the main reasons raised for needing speed, and not having it allows us to be status'ed and/or start out trade 1v1 sequences with an opponent healed up, rather than them being forced to hit into our fat bulk due to the speedier Taunt threat. This is pretty significant, I think, with TWave, Toxic and Wisp (G-Weezing, in the last case) having common users outsped by speedier builds. Another aspect that has not been brought up much is the Taunt into the switch, driven by the Taunt threat into the matchup we're in against. This is probably when we have exhausted abusing Knock Off, or when Gliscor switches into us for the n-th time. Say we are in against, I dunno, a Corviknight or even a PhysDef Snaelstrom where I think we still Taunt as our opening move a lot of the time because of the Toxic threat.

Physdef Snael calc: heals 24% from this if no Taunt

0 Atk Mandibuzz Beak Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Snaelstrom: 234-276 (60.6 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Poison Heal

With the faster build, say, due the threat of this Taunt, a Clefable, Cresceidon or Shox comes in to tank the hit, and they get Taunted. Even if they force us out, they are unable to spread Para/Rocks or reset our progress against them with 50% recovery (Healing Wish lol) progress. These interactions are lost with a slower Taunt which I think is not an insignificant cost.

Beak Blast, funnily enough, allows us to somewhat alleviate the concerns about having no opportunities to heal up freely due to being slow, or get the Taunt interaction, due to forcing some free switches.

Finally, I think Sucker Punch needlessly complicates an already working kit (might have worked if we achieved the same power with Analytic, which would have not boosted Sucker Punch), so I felt then and I feel now that I would rather not have it on this kit. I was under the impression that the assumed moves are binding, but others have mentioned/corrected my thinking here and they are not.

So yeah, I hope to have argued a little bit for why slow speed/high ATK + bulk is an interesting and significant tradeoff that none of the other options provide (to this extent, the 6 Speed one does not count), but is still pro-concept.

 

[TheShowdownHero]

I support starfalcon's set too and would love for it to get slated along with spammernoob's set.

 

[Rysachi]

Just seen Dex's comment regarding being against 150+ Attack on the slate and personally have to disagree with that statement and support one of Starfalcon's or Spammer's sets being added onto the slate.

The major thing that has already been brought up and feel has to be reiterated is the fact that CAP 37 will be lacking the opportunity for multiplicative boosts (lack of held item + lack of setup outside of niche Opportunist interactions which opposing Pokémon may or may not adapt to in the movesets and lack of priority in Spammer's build.) The other major pro for both of these sets is one of the most viable and arguably frustrating Pokémon we currently face in the current meta being Gliscor, is only 100% reliably beat in a 1v1 either if we hit the benchmark to be able to guarantee OHKO it or if we rely on it being an SD Gliscor set and we gain the opportunist boost otherwise we are in a very awkward scenario in which CAP 37 is possibly likely to underspeed Gliscor to not be able to reliably Taunt it without heavy investment, or a faster build which sacrifices the attack stat quite detrimentally to being able to make far less favourable trades due to eventually being worn down with the assumption CAP 37 will take a Knock Off and lose HDB to become chipped away with Stealth Rocks or even just beat by +2 Facade Gliscor if we're not careful on the defensive side.

The final thing I want to potentially mention that hasn't been discussed previously as it hasn't particularly been relevant as of yet is that it is quite likely Tera Fire is going to be an extremely favourable option for CAP 37 to not only be able to turn a heavily unfavourable MU to a favourable one against Hemogoblin but also provides CAP 37 a burn immunity if we don't get anything related to status during the secondary ability process. This means that our Gliscor MU becomes even more of a shaky MU and gives us a much better pro-concept justification for the high stat. Whilst there is potential concern for allowing such a high attack stat to be able to copy boosts from SD or BU, this isn't too unsimilar from Supreme Overlord Kingambit with SD which also would have access to Sucker which these high attacking stats lack but also have far lower speeds which immensely hinders the opportunity for any sweeping potential for the CAP and moreso turns it into a 1v1 trade CAP that can be revenge killed.

 

[viol and bass]

I'm gonna make a quick post to explain why I think Starfalcon's spread is somewhat dangerous territory. This is purely my own views, and it's a bit vibes-based and not a particularly cogent argument that can't be picked apart in places cuz it's a bit off the cuff and I'm tired, but it is what it is.

First, high attack stats can be balanced. Not hard at all really, look at a mon like Rampardos. 170 is not in and of itself a broken stat, but it is extremely high, and that genuinely merits a lot of caution. To determine whether a stat that high is balanced, you have to look at the context around it. Assuming Starfalcon's spread, here's some context:

• We have a near-unresisted STAB typing.
• Those STABs have no immunities.
• Those STABs are high base power, and one of them removes items.
• Our powerful Flying STAB also 100% burns anything that makes contact during the turn. It does however move last.
• We are very tanky on both sides of the spectrum and have recovery. Our HP, Def, and SpDef are all a bit higher than Mega Venusaur's equivalent stats to give a sense of the bulk level.
• We have a good, albeit not perfect, defensive typing with a very useful Ground immunity and Ghost/Dark resists, a few annoying 2x weaknesses, and no 4x weaknesses to prey on.
• We have Taunt for playing the long game against anything that isn't immediately dying.
• We're slow. However if we invest, 30 base speed is enough to outspeed anything uninvested below base 70 (and Taunt it). This has tradeoffs, but a fair amount of speed investment may well be worth it with an attack stat this high. There are historical analogues for this.
• We're weak to rocks and thus probably locked into boots.
• We will sometimes boost our stats just by entering the field.
• This spread is assuming Sucker Punch, which we are not locked into, but it is hard to overstate how powerful and centralizing this option is with the aforementioned collection of traits.

This is just the basic facts of our current build with a relatively small amount of subjectivity baked in. I was going to make a list of mons that hit comparable attacking stats unboosted and explain how those mons are balanced by other mitigating factors, but it just invites quibbling over how applicable certain comparisons are and I don't think that's a useful exercise. Instead, just look at where we're at now in this process. What tradeoffs do we have that bring a higher attacking stat than Ultra Necrozma into balance? Why do we need a stat that high, when we have Taunt for preventing recovery, very good bulk, and reliable recovery paired with the ability to burn things while attacking for playing the long game? Because boosts stack multiplicatively, doesn't this make matches swingier with Opportunist in play? Just in general, how do you deal with this mon with any consistency?

I fully agree with Guingil's post above that low speed comes with significant tradeoffs. At the very least you're sacrificing some bulk investment. But I genuinely just don't think that's enough here. I've supported a hard-hitting tank from the start, but this is a different beast. Forgive the "generic list of traits" post, but I do think it's important to fully take stock of where we're at with this mon and what's needed here.

 

[Ixkukul]

Final
87 HP / 137 Atk / 117 Def / 77 SpA / 107 SpD / 64 Spe (589 BST)
PS: 108.08
SS: 72.70
PT: 123.94
ST: 115.06
BSR: 580.27

You gotta put Final Submission

 

[quziel]

Some general thoughts.

Frankly I'm unconvinced we need high enough attack to do stuff like OHKO Gliscor. From Spammer's post up there I don't really see a ton past Primarina. The 170 and 194 spreads feel like an incorrect decision for us to make. I'm all for buffing alternative playstyles (Trick Room), but I don't think that was the goal for this project, and I don't see why we'd make effectively the strongest mon in the tier for a concept built around taking hits moreso than anything else.

I find myself liking spreads that are more middle of the pack. High enough attack that an opponent clicking Tera to evade a SE Beak Blast doesn't totally screw us, and enough room for speed to actually leverage Taunt vs stuff like Corv, Argh, and friends.

 

[spoo]

HP​

Atk​

Def​

SpA​

SpD​

Spe​

BST​

PS​

SS​

PT​

ST​

BSR​

110​

160​

115​

55​

65​

45​

550​

104.85​

50.81​

140.07​

87.54​

559.03​

Assumed moves: Encore

Fuck it, final submission

Posting this on break at work so it’s gonna be pretty quick and poorly formatted. I wanted to try my hand at making a nuclear Attack spread since it seems like there is some desire among people for a harder hitting option. I believe that starfalcon’s spread is simply too much, not just because of the Attack, but also because its mixed bulk is absurd. Idk how we are supposed to kill that thing and it’s trading 1 for 3 if it ever steals a boost (rip HO). Something that is often glazed over in comparisons with other high-attack breakers like Hoopa, Ursaluna, Kartana, Buzzwole, Melm, etc is that they are notably weaker on one side of the defensive spectrum and thus easier to force out. Following the formula of “high attack, high defense, low special defense, low speed” that many other breakers follow, I believe this spread would be fairly balanced (at least, more so than the other high Attack options) - even to the point of undershooting limits quite a bit.

Don’t have time to explain every benchmark but the SpD lets you live a moonblast from valiant with 252 evs, assuming a spread of Dump+ Atk/252 Spd/Creep Spe.

Frankly I prefer more middle of the pack options like quziel was mentioning above me, but I think a spread like this has merit and would be worth including on a theoretical slate. Might be cutting it too close to the deadline tho. We’ll see!

 

[Zetalz]

Had some thoughts about the 170 spread last night on the discord and figured I'd drop them here before the deadline.

I believe the spread is dangerously bordering on being BSR abuse, though I doubt it was intentional. I think the idea of the spread having such high atk it doesn't need to invest in it and instead invest into bulk is inherently flawed. It already has very high mixed tankiness totals, only being beaten out in this regard by 3 other spreads (kenn, jomakl, justapenguin), but all these spreads all have sub 125 atk stats as a balanced trade-off for their high bulk.

Meanwhile starfalcon's spread holds that massive 170 atk (knock from this thing is equivalent to a 2 allies fainted gambit kowtow for comparison), and sits comfortably below the PS limit EVEN after incurring a -10 from including Sucker. The assumed ev spreads by the submitter I think are also not going to be realistic when you have an offense stat this high and semi-reliable priority. But even if we just didn't give the spread Sucker, I forsee movesets needing to be overly strict with distributing stabs, coverage etc. lest the mons Beak Blast identity be lost in lieu of becoming nuclear bomb launcher.

I don't think it's impossible to balance the 170 spread, or make it fit into the role the mon was designed for, but it complicates things in a way I don't care for and the minor BSR abuse.

Spoo posted his spread as I was typing this aaaaaah, I do like it more than 170 though by merit of having a favored defense and no sucker

 

[Da Pizza Man]

Alright, times up! Slate time!

Before I get into the slate, I would like to thank everyone who choose to participate in this stage. Despite certain controversies (I will touch on this later), I am fairly happy with how this stage turned out overall. As for the slate itself, I was originally gonna aim for around 6/7 options (Oh boy I can't wait for someone to point out that I said "67"), but I decided to go with a bit fewer options this time around to focus more on a distinct set of quality spreads that I think play well into our concept. Also, I would like to remind users that any Defining Moves listed are not set in stone and may undergo reevaluation during the Moveset Stage. With that out of the way, here's our slate!

Guingil

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
117	139	105	50	74	65	111.58	55.96	134.52	100.81	583.77

Optional Defining Moves: N/A

Starting off, we have a fairly offensive-focused spread on Guingil that aims to use Beak Blast as more of wallbreaking tool. Compared to many of the other offensively oriented spreads, Guingil decided against sacrificing speed, instead choosing to forgo any moves with penalties (Sucker Punch/Encore), a smart decision that helped him stand out well from the crowd. Furthermore, the high Attack and decent speed means it can focus more on defense investment than many of the other spreads on the slate, offering a great deal of spread variety.

dex

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
102	128	126	45	90	64	102.15	51.75	144.97	108.87	584.85

Optional Defining Moves: Sucker Punch

dex's spread doesn't really specialize in any particular area, opting to have a solid all-around profile instead. Where this spread truly shines, and why it was slated, is how it rewards smart spread investment, using a unique spread to enable Beak Blast to become a solid progress-making tool and minimize situations where it may be less desirable to use, playing well into the concept and justifying its niche on several different teams. The inclusion of Sucker Punch plays into this as well, preventing it from being taken advantage of set-up sweepers.

kenn

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
110	111	119	53	113	59	86.08	54.54	144.53	138.72	584.84

Optional Defining Moves: Sucker Punch

Compared to many of the other spreads that were submitted, kenn choose to focus a lot less on having high attack and a lot more on having good bulk in both departments. This mandates a lot less bulk investment than many of the other spreads on the slate, allowing it to invest more into attack should it want to hit hard. Alternatively, it can choose to invest fully into bulk, focusing more on its defensive profile to exert pressure on the opponent through the secondary effects of Beak Blast and Knock Off, rather than pure offensive output.

Scizivire

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
95	145	125	60	80	55	104.74	57.48	138.07	94.78	565.17

Optional Defining Moves: Sucker Punch

Similarly to Guingil, Scizivire choose to go with a very offensive route for his spread that uses Beak Blast more as a wallbreaking tool. However, unlike Guingil, Scizivire choose to enable this by sacrificing a great deal of speed and special bulk, which allows his spread to keep access to Sucker Punch. While I have spoke about my concerns with high Attack and Sucker Punch before, I personally believe that low ST and BSR compared many of the other submissions balances this out nicely.

Ixkukul

HP	Atk	Def	SpA	SpD	Spe	PS	SS	PT	ST	BSR
90	125	116	46	94	79	114.62	58.83	125.38	105.05	584.72

Optional Defining Moves: Body Press

Finally, we have a spread from Ixkukul that, simiarily to dex, does not really specialize in any particular area and opts to be more all-around good. A few major things stick out in this spread compared to many of the other spreads, however. First of all, Ixkukul's spread has a fair amount less physical bulk than all of the other spreads on the slate, relying more on investment in defense to survive physical hits and burn stuff with Beak Blast. While this might seem like a problem, the high speed, relative to the other spreads submitted, means that this is balanced out by having a lot less need to invest in speed. Furthermore, this plays very nicely in our ability to use Taunt, uniquely being able to Taunt Arghonaut without having to invest a single point in speed!

Honorable mentions go to Rysachi and traceyscetchit. Both of your spreads were greatly considered for the slate, but I decided to cut them as I figured they were too similar to other options on the slate (Compared to Scizivire's and Ixkukul's, respectively), and I wanted to ensure that each spread on the slate could uniquely stand out.

Now, before I officially sign out and pass this over to earthflax, there's something I need to get off my chest that has been bothering me ever since the Stakeout debacle in the Primary Ability Discussion thread, and seems to have appeared again here due to some of my comments in Discord. There appears to be a sentiment going on that the TL/TLT essentially cannot exhibit personal autonomy in decision making in regards to slates, and are simply forced to unconditionally comply to popular opinion. I was originally gonna write something about this myself, but I would instead like users to read a post from Wulfanator during Saharaja's Stat Limit Discussion, as it covers what I would have wanted to say more elegantly than I could have.

We as TLT members are elected to the positions of SL and TL because we are deemed to be well-experienced in both the meta and community. We are entrusted with the ability to make administrative decisions for the project. Within these responsibilities, there is a level of expectation that we will exercise our knowledge and intervene when the project stands to get problematic despite a majority opinion. That is why we are tasked with determining intelligent community consensus. As someone who has worked on 60% of the projects this generation in a leadership position, I feel beyond qualified to recognize a problematic decision and am able to course correct to ensure reasonable products. Given the unexplored territory of open-ended role plus the wide array of defining moves, constructing a solution that avoids shooting ourselves in the foot AND still being accommodating to user freedom is a hard task to ask of any user. It is hours of calculations, pushing the limits, and recognizing what can be problematic. Limits are intended to better guide inexperienced users. My job as stat SL is to not grant excessive freedoms that only stand to hurt users or the submission process. Leaving full discretion to users only serves to disadvantage new users since a lack of familiarity with the project or meta can result in questionable spreads. Just because a spread is within the limits does not make it automatically fine. This does not impede the democratic process of CAP or negatively impact user freedom. This is not a manipulation of the process. This level of control is needed to streamline all stages and help guide users in a way that their contributions will be both recognized and meaningful.

Tagging earthflax for approval.

 

[earthflax]

Approved. I’ll use this post to show my full support of everything DPM said. If you feel called out by it, then there’s probably a reason why. On the whole, I recommend that we all be a little bit kinder about this fakemon project. It’s not that serious.