I agree with omgthatkid95 on the 600 BST or over thing since its looking like this things going to be a dragon.
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CAP 4 CAP 4 - Base Stat Submission Thread
- Thread starter Sunday
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I like 105 as a speed rating. It's actually a point at which several other Pokemon sit, but I don't think there are any currently OU Pokemon with 105 speed, and it has the nice side-effect of putting our Pokemon above Garchomp. It's below Infernape, but it'll still survive a HP Ice, most likely even after a Nasty Plot.
Also,
Chain Chomp is a threat because A) It also has 130 base attack, B) It has the movepool to effectively deal with many OU walls, and C) It's normally viewed as a physical attacker. There's absolutely no way we're giving a utility Pokemon anywhere near 130 base attack (and while we have yet to determine stat spread orientation, the fact that this is a utility-heavy Pokemon alone means that it's not going to be a big threat on either side), so saying "We shouldn't give this much special attack because it'll likely have one of Chain Chomp's attacks and Chain Chomp is a big threat" is pretty much meaningless.
On the subject of attack stats, I'm opposed to making one attack stat a whole lot weaker than the other, or having both stats extremely low. A Pokemon without any moderately strong attacking moves is just setup bait. Even if it's primary role is utility, if it has 60/60 attacking stats, it's an open invitation for dangerous sweepers to come in and set up. Even if you're planning to run a pure utility set without a single attacking move, having a decent attack stat will make opponents think twice before bringing a sweeper in. Having the option to run an offensive set also helps to make the metagame more diverse, which is never a bad thing. Variety is the spice of life - that goes for Pokemon too!
Also,
Chain Chomp is a threat because A) It also has 130 base attack, B) It has the movepool to effectively deal with many OU walls, and C) It's normally viewed as a physical attacker. There's absolutely no way we're giving a utility Pokemon anywhere near 130 base attack (and while we have yet to determine stat spread orientation, the fact that this is a utility-heavy Pokemon alone means that it's not going to be a big threat on either side), so saying "We shouldn't give this much special attack because it'll likely have one of Chain Chomp's attacks and Chain Chomp is a big threat" is pretty much meaningless.
On the subject of attack stats, I'm opposed to making one attack stat a whole lot weaker than the other, or having both stats extremely low. A Pokemon without any moderately strong attacking moves is just setup bait. Even if it's primary role is utility, if it has 60/60 attacking stats, it's an open invitation for dangerous sweepers to come in and set up. Even if you're planning to run a pure utility set without a single attacking move, having a decent attack stat will make opponents think twice before bringing a sweeper in. Having the option to run an offensive set also helps to make the metagame more diverse, which is never a bad thing. Variety is the spice of life - that goes for Pokemon too!
I'm thinking 85-90 in both attack stats which makes them average but not unusable.
These stats are for Poison/Ground. If it ends up Dragon then I would change it to be more balanced. If you look at a Poison/Ground type it would have no need for special attack. I mean what attacks would it use?
My first prototype stat spread would be 55/80/135/75/125/105.
The idea of a very low HP and compensating high defenses is to be able to EV the Pokemon more easily by maxing out HP, and then tinker with the other stats as needed. Even though it has a BST of 575, its overall rating is only 342, or Very Good. Its SweepTank stats are 123/139/116/130: Moderately Good Physical Sweepiness, Good Physical Tankiness, Above Average Special Sweepiness and Moderately Good Special Tankiness.
The idea of a very low HP and compensating high defenses is to be able to EV the Pokemon more easily by maxing out HP, and then tinker with the other stats as needed. Even though it has a BST of 575, its overall rating is only 342, or Very Good. Its SweepTank stats are 123/139/116/130: Moderately Good Physical Sweepiness, Good Physical Tankiness, Above Average Special Sweepiness and Moderately Good Special Tankiness.
100/75/90/85/85/105
I actually had kind of the opposite idea of X-Act, where it would have higher HP and mediocre defenses. I think that it would be really cool if it could have the option to use 101 subs, so it could set up its utility on Blissey. 85 SpAtk ensures that it won't be set up bait, though it won't be doing any sweeping either, and 105 Speed is great because it's faster than Garchomp and the base 100's, but slower than the frailer high-speed pokes who imo shouldn't be outsped by this guy, since even with low attacking stats he can deal significant damage to Gengar, Starmie, Weavile, Infernape, etc.
(I'm assuming we can submit more than one stat spread)
I actually had kind of the opposite idea of X-Act, where it would have higher HP and mediocre defenses. I think that it would be really cool if it could have the option to use 101 subs, so it could set up its utility on Blissey. 85 SpAtk ensures that it won't be set up bait, though it won't be doing any sweeping either, and 105 Speed is great because it's faster than Garchomp and the base 100's, but slower than the frailer high-speed pokes who imo shouldn't be outsped by this guy, since even with low attacking stats he can deal significant damage to Gengar, Starmie, Weavile, Infernape, etc.
(I'm assuming we can submit more than one stat spread)
Feel free to go to town with as many as you like.
Last night I had a play around and liked:
Poison / Ground
100 / 70 / 90 / 60 / 90 / 110
Physical Sweepiness: 0, Average
Special Sweepiness: 0, Average
Physical Defenciveness: 3, Good
Special Defenciveness: 3, Good
-10.7, Moderate bias to defence
7.8, slight bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 274, quite good.
Didn't spend forever looking at magic numbers or anything. Main points I was looking at were keeping offences just out of useable range for anyhting than STAB or SE hits. Having said that I think you need to make sure it can finish off opposing Pokemon if it has to. 110 Speed is nice and quick and can be used to mess with most walls with Taunt / Encore / Screens. 100 HP of course gives 101 Subs which are nice to throw up against Blissey after throwing up a Light Screen against the incoming Ice Beam. Although I don't think Blissey needs much more nerfing on the CAP server since Rev tears it to pieces already. 90 Defences aren't overexaggerated but still give it some nice bulk overall.
What I'm saying is that Pokemon that don't have an extremely high attacking stat don't usually have that much difference in there attacks. (I can only think of Blissey) They are usually fairly close and this Pokemon's attack stats should be, too.
And also it can use Earth Power and Sludge bomb.
NO! First off, we don't want anything CLOSE to Garchomp. Second, this is a primary Poison type, meaning that the BST should be more towards Poison types, not Dragon. Third, the only things that aren't uber and are Over 600 BST are Sucking and RegiPhail.
That being said, Some of the spreads shown are pretty good. However, we've already done a pokemon with High HP. Here's a rough spread:
81/85/98/65/92/109
Physical Sweepiness: Rank 3 Good
Physical Tankiness: Rank 2 Moderatly Good
Special Sweepiness: Rank 0 Average
Special Tankiness: Rank 2 Average
ODB: 3.7 No Bias
PSB: 17.2 Moderate Bias to Physical
Overall Rating: 292 Quite Good
109 Speed to outrun and Haze Infernape and base 105s, but still be slower than Gengar, Starmie, and base 110s. 81/95/95 Defenses take hits pretty good. Base 85 Attack is a little higher than Crobat, and Base 65 Special Attack isn't completely useless on something like Draco Meteor, not that this pokemon will have spare moveslots to begin with.
Actually I said I highly doubted that we would agree upon a 600BST
That post you quoted came later, and I was saying if we did make it 600BST, then I would want a spread similar to that.
Is this assumption about it getting 600 BST involved around what I said?
I'm going to make a spread, but I'm waiting until it's decided whether we want this thing "balanced" and that kind of stuff sorted out first.
I'd rather not have to change my design.
I'd rather not have to change my design.
Please stop with the 600 BST talk. We all know there is a snowball's chance in hell that this will get 600 BST. Continuing to kick it around is giving the perception to all the fanboys that we'll actually do it. Let's cut it out.
I agree with latinoheat that "odd" speed numbers look contrived. I know some pokemon have them, but it just looks like we are trying too hard, if you know what I mean. Personally, I think all stats should be divisible by five -- but maybe I'm too conservative.
I agree with latinoheat that "odd" speed numbers look contrived. I know some pokemon have them, but it just looks like we are trying too hard, if you know what I mean. Personally, I think all stats should be divisible by five -- but maybe I'm too conservative.
Thirding(?) this. Well, not completely. Not all of out pokemon need Base 86 Speed, but it doesn't hurt on some.
I actually disagree. I think that one-under divisible by five is actually worse for the pokemon. Sure, 109 can outspeed Infernape. But what else can it do? It's almost always outsped by Base 110s, unlike one-over divisible by five which will almost always outspeed. Sure, it looks cheap, but then again, who ever said we had to go by Gamefreak's standards?
I believe a bias towards physical on the offense is definitely in order either way it goes. If dragon, to prevent meteor abuse and if ground because ground types are just more physically oriented, especially ground/poison. On the defense it should be somewhat balanced.
Maybe something to the order of
Poison/Dragon
Ability (getting WAY ahead of myself but I like this assumption): Thick Fat
90/55/110/45/100/115 (hp/atk/def/sp. atk/sp. def/spe) for a total of 515, that's around the base stat total of stuff like starmie and flygon. Those defenses are slightly higher than those of Swampert, who isn't exactly a huge deal to take down anymore. His offensive stats are very low even for a wall/utility poke. This ensures that he can't really abuse his bulkiness as a tank like Swampert does with superior defenses. The goal of a utility pokemon is to hop in, do his job (spin, status cure, spikes, reflect/light screen/trick room, maybe throw up a wish on the way out to help a switchin, whatever) and live to continue supporting the team.
I give him slightly lowish stats for an OU with the assumption that he will have a rather large support movepool.
Maybe something to the order of
Poison/Dragon
Ability (getting WAY ahead of myself but I like this assumption): Thick Fat
90/55/110/45/100/115 (hp/atk/def/sp. atk/sp. def/spe) for a total of 515, that's around the base stat total of stuff like starmie and flygon. Those defenses are slightly higher than those of Swampert, who isn't exactly a huge deal to take down anymore. His offensive stats are very low even for a wall/utility poke. This ensures that he can't really abuse his bulkiness as a tank like Swampert does with superior defenses. The goal of a utility pokemon is to hop in, do his job (spin, status cure, spikes, reflect/light screen/trick room, maybe throw up a wish on the way out to help a switchin, whatever) and live to continue supporting the team.
I give him slightly lowish stats for an OU with the assumption that he will have a rather large support movepool.
As an encore user, in order to outspeed the fastest common user of swords dance (SDvile), it needs a minimum of 126 base speed.
My stat spread:
HP: 100
ATK: 65
DEF: 90
SPATK: 65
SPDEF: 90
SPD: 130
a 540 BST
My stat spread:
HP: 100
ATK: 65
DEF: 90
SPATK: 65
SPDEF: 90
SPD: 130
a 540 BST
Actually that would be supporting the foundation of CAP. This project was created to help "diversify" out metagame by creating new Pokemon. Creating "odd" speeds leads to different speed tiers that shake up how we invest our evs. Garchomp, being such a force in OU, created its own speed tier at 102. Nowadays, that stat is in the minds of everyone creating movesets with Pokemon around that speed.
120 speed is a bit hefty to me...maybe take out some of the speed and put it into special attack. This thing is meant to take a hit or two.
Oops wrong thread.
I'll make a proper BST contribution in a minute.
Dragon/Poison
HP - 100
ATT - 85
DEF - 95
SPA - 70
SPD - 85
SPD - 110
Enough speed to Haze, Light Screen, Reflect.
Enough HP to Substitute 101 subs.
Physical Bias. No Draco Metoer sweeps. Not enough Attack to hurt anything unless STAB or SE. a support unit won't receive many EVs for Attack stats and more for HP and Defense.
BST 545
Rates as very good 342 compared to Swampert which is 302, Starmie is 288
I'm happy for it not to go 100 hp and go 80 HP which gives it 279 Quite Good.
I'll make a proper BST contribution in a minute.
Dragon/Poison
HP - 100
ATT - 85
DEF - 95
SPA - 70
SPD - 85
SPD - 110
Enough speed to Haze, Light Screen, Reflect.
Enough HP to Substitute 101 subs.
Physical Bias. No Draco Metoer sweeps. Not enough Attack to hurt anything unless STAB or SE. a support unit won't receive many EVs for Attack stats and more for HP and Defense.
BST 545
Rates as very good 342 compared to Swampert which is 302, Starmie is 288
I'm happy for it not to go 100 hp and go 80 HP which gives it 279 Quite Good.
I can't agree with the high speed, because wouldn't this thing be setting up Gravity? And I think that this Pokemon should have bulkiness over defense, so my stat line would be:
130/60/110/40/80/80
I think that it would be kinda weird having a FAST Pokemon meant to set up Reflect, Gravity, Stealth Rock, etc. because speed is generally an offensive stat, and if it's bulky, as I hope it is, then it would be unnatural having a speedy bulky Pokemon.
Think of a Snorlax using Extremespeed.
130/60/110/40/80/80
I think that it would be kinda weird having a FAST Pokemon meant to set up Reflect, Gravity, Stealth Rock, etc. because speed is generally an offensive stat, and if it's bulky, as I hope it is, then it would be unnatural having a speedy bulky Pokemon.
Think of a Snorlax using Extremespeed.
i decided on that speed because everyone wants a fast utility pokemon and 120 is good number. its fast but not too fast without ev investment.
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