Isn't latinoheat's concept, Break the Mold, something we can already to without it being the entire focus?
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CAP 5 CAP 5 - Part 1 (Concept Poll 1)
- Thread starter tennisace
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Mine could put the smackdown on Togekiss even more. That was kinda the point of mine. I hope people aren't interpreting mine as a hax abuser.
IT IS ALSO A HAX COUNTER. If you want that, and you're tired of hax ruining your battles, then vote for mine.
Also Chaoscrippler is completely right. Any one of these other concepts could ALSO be done with a "break the mold" type. Perhaps we should have a side vote to see if people would want to use latino's as well as another concept. I'm thinking clicky poll with: "Use break the mold and another concept" and "just one concept" or something. It's not really my decision, but it seems like a logical thing to do.
I obviously voted for my concept as it has a purpose in a metagame that for the most part has added many new threats to the game. It got harder to counter all those Pokemon while still maintaining an offensive team, or a defensive team for the matter. Stall was heavily neglected in the CaP Metagame and although the revenge killer won't make it alive again, it will give them a chance though, which is needed. If it is like Deoxys-S (which I hope it won't become, but I'm not really against it either) it will just boost Offensive (which is really what it Deoxys-S did not, destroy it, it encouraged it! Which was suprising with have of the community saying it killed since, Yanmega, Lucario, Metagross, can all handle but need to be on an offensive pace, which is what Deoxys-S made people do with force) while Stall will still be viable as such as Deoxys-S was walled by Spiritomb, this will be walled by something too I hope (although I wish it won't be walled by Togekiss, since that's already running wild in this metagame!)
I also voted for TAY's idea since it can be another Garchomp but the health it's going to be losing, it won't be as broken although if you attach a Life Orb on, a living Life Orb you're asking for it :/
I also voted for TAY's idea since it can be another Garchomp but the health it's going to be losing, it won't be as broken although if you attach a Life Orb on, a living Life Orb you're asking for it :/
I was thinking that as well. almost all of these concepts could be used in conjunction with Break the Mold.
Hax doesn't ruin battles, stupid decisions do. If your hax counter can't put enough damage on Togekiss, then it isn't a Togekiss counter as much as it is immune to flinch or paralysis or whatever. Which is what a status absorber is designed to do, and some kind of electrical tank could also probably put Togekiss in its place. Or whatever. I've never been sold on complaints of "hax." "Hax" balances out stat-ups for the most part and no single currently existing ability or set of abilities can stop it.
I totally agree with this. This seems more of a typing + stats thing than a concept thing to me.
No because it can also include moves and abilities
@DK: Yeah I know. I would be fine with a good Togekiss counter being made through stats and typing, but I think countering its hax would certainly help alot. This kinda goes along with my other point too: if we went with latino's and made a bulky electric, it could also be a hax counter/abuser and probably take down Togekiss even better.
I hope you are joking. Let me give you an example.
I send in my Snorlax to take an obvious FB from a Heatran. This happened to be a CB lax. Thanks to thick fat and high hp/sp.def this is a safe switch. However I am met by a critical hit knocking off around 40% of my health. Knowing my opponent is ready to sacrifice Heatran, I have to switch Snorlax out as I cannot allow him to reach 50% health. I then switch to Vaporeon who also has high sp.def and is immune to fire. My opponent again scores a critical hit putting my Vaporeon at considerably low health. This in turn caused me to lose the battle because had it not scored a crit on Lax/Vaporeon they both would have been able to take an extra hit which would have undoubtedly changed the game in my favor.
In that example I did not make any stupid decisions. I made the best choices possible but critical hits (hax) ended up losing the game for me. Also that actually happened to me in a battle. I did not fabricate anything in that example.
I was a bit torn on what to vote for. Ultimately I chose two that I did not really like at first blush. But, after thinking about it, they seem to fit best for the thing I like to see in the CAP project: Interesting competitive discussion.
I voted for Revenge Killer because it is a clearly identifiable role in the metagame. There's few pokemon that do this exclusively - Dugtrio is really the only *pure* revenge killer in the game. I think it could be fun to talk about how to make another one, without just rehashing Duggy.
I also voted for Break the Mold. I really didn't like it at first, since it doesn't really give any direction at all. But after some thought, I voted it for two reasons 1) My inner fanboy loves the idea of a physical electric, steel sweeper, etc. 2) Even if we don't pick a type I like, I think we can have some great discussions about what does or does not constitute the competitive stereotype for a given type. OTOH, it may turn into a big over-dramatic mess. But, what else is new? Welcome to the CAP project....
I voted for Revenge Killer because it is a clearly identifiable role in the metagame. There's few pokemon that do this exclusively - Dugtrio is really the only *pure* revenge killer in the game. I think it could be fun to talk about how to make another one, without just rehashing Duggy.
I also voted for Break the Mold. I really didn't like it at first, since it doesn't really give any direction at all. But after some thought, I voted it for two reasons 1) My inner fanboy loves the idea of a physical electric, steel sweeper, etc. 2) Even if we don't pick a type I like, I think we can have some great discussions about what does or does not constitute the competitive stereotype for a given type. OTOH, it may turn into a big over-dramatic mess. But, what else is new? Welcome to the CAP project....
Or, you could have EQ'd Heatran instead of switching to Vappy. Not saying you would end up winning, just saying that the hax, while unfortunate, could have gone the other way too. It's a 6.6% chance of happening, which is low enough not to be a huge problem. Perhaps I should not have said "stupid" in my assessment, but nonetheless, your battle was altered by decisions.
I mean, you didn't have one in your team, but it's possible a Flash Fire pokemon could have helped you if this was Scarftran. It would nullify any chance of CH as well. Point is, as bad as hax is, I didn't want to use my votes on building something that would counter it. Shield Dust and Battle Armor are nice enough, but we already have a CAP with Battle Armor.
Yes I could have. However that would have dropped my Snorlax down to less than 50% health. I already stated that I could not allow that to happen.
Also I agree with you. It was a bad choice to use "stupid" in your assessment. While hax can be lessened by good decision making there are times where hax will just flat out cause you to lose the game despite you making the best choices possible.
I feel incredibly appalled at the fact that my submission didn't make it into the concept poll... Especially since it is more akin to "Pure Utility" which won the last one. It was a simple "roll" that the Pokemon was supposed to play, it was incredibly non- constricting. I feel this more has to do with the TL either A. Actively trying to shape the pokemon in his own direction or B. the TL's dislike towards me (It's no secret the arguments that Tennis and I had in the last CAP project.).
Neither of these are adacquate reasons for disallowing my submission... especially since more constricting submissions were allowed (Aura one for example... almost needs an ability.)
The Team Leader, if I'm not mistaken, is not supposed to force the polls one way or another through not allowing certain submissions. If I recall correctly, Sunday didn't enjoy the idea of Persistant, but did he disallow it from the poll because he didn't want it to be the Pokekmon's ability? No, he allowed it because it was a fleshed out ability and deserved to be on the poll.
I know this sounds like "whiny" ranting, but I just can find no justification for doing this. In fact, I can find no justification for why any of the submissions that Doug said were legal didn't make it into this poll. All of them were deemed legal by Doug, therefore all of them should have made it to the poll, not just mine, but all of the ones you cut.
This isn't "Tennisace picks what he likes and then we vote from there"... It's a community project.
(On a side note, I voted for Break the Mold and Revenge Killer)
Neither of these are adacquate reasons for disallowing my submission... especially since more constricting submissions were allowed (Aura one for example... almost needs an ability.)
The Team Leader, if I'm not mistaken, is not supposed to force the polls one way or another through not allowing certain submissions. If I recall correctly, Sunday didn't enjoy the idea of Persistant, but did he disallow it from the poll because he didn't want it to be the Pokekmon's ability? No, he allowed it because it was a fleshed out ability and deserved to be on the poll.
I know this sounds like "whiny" ranting, but I just can find no justification for doing this. In fact, I can find no justification for why any of the submissions that Doug said were legal didn't make it into this poll. All of them were deemed legal by Doug, therefore all of them should have made it to the poll, not just mine, but all of the ones you cut.
This isn't "Tennisace picks what he likes and then we vote from there"... It's a community project.
(On a side note, I voted for Break the Mold and Revenge Killer)
I was very disappointed too. I want my 200 Speed Deoxys S anti-lead with Explosion, but no Stealth Rock.
The topic leader picks the starting 10. This part of the process is actually "Tennisace picks what he likes and then we vote from there". Sunday did the same, and I'm sure others were "appalled" -- both this time and before -- that their role submission didn't make it to the poll. Suck it up.
darkie, I looked at the way Sunday did his Concept poll.
The only things that he disallowed were things that NEEDED an ability or moves to complete the concept, or that were already mentioned. He didn't choose "viable" ones.... that wasn't his place to choose what was viable and what wasn't. Nor is it Tennisace's. He put all of the concepts that didn't break the rules and that weren't said more than once on the poll.
He also had twice the number of options on his poll.
Don't make this out to be me just being upset that my submission didn't get accepted. I'm complaining at the fact that he chose FOR us what we were allowed to vote from.
The only things that he disallowed were things that NEEDED an ability or moves to complete the concept, or that were already mentioned. He didn't choose "viable" ones.... that wasn't his place to choose what was viable and what wasn't. Nor is it Tennisace's. He put all of the concepts that didn't break the rules and that weren't said more than once on the poll.
He also had twice the number of options on his poll.
Don't make this out to be me just being upset that my submission didn't get accepted. I'm complaining at the fact that he chose FOR us what we were allowed to vote from.
@LonelyNess
The Topic Leader has very broad powers within the CAP project, particularly as it pertains to polls. The TL guide is posted here. Selecting a slate of submissions is specifically mentioned in the guide. This is not accidental. The community votes, but the TL is responsible for putting the threads together. It is very much acceptable for TL to use subjective discretion in leading the creation threads. If the TL appears to be acting on personal bias with other members, that would not be acceptable. But, I don't see any evidence of that here.
There were ~40 legal concepts and Tennis decided to narrow it to 10. That means 30 people are going to be upset. Personally, I wish Tennis would have picked a couple other Concepts that I really liked. But, I'm not the TL. In this case, I'm just like everyone else. I'm sure if I polled every person on the project, they would have a different idea of the "best" 10 concepts. But, Tennis is the TL, and therefore his opinion is the one that matters most -- when it comes to determining a slate of choices.
Remember, Tennis' vote amongst these 10 is the same as the rest of us. So, Tennis can't actually *pick* anything for the project. Just ask any past TL's how many votes "went their way". It's astoundingly few...
The Topic Leader has very broad powers within the CAP project, particularly as it pertains to polls. The TL guide is posted here. Selecting a slate of submissions is specifically mentioned in the guide. This is not accidental. The community votes, but the TL is responsible for putting the threads together. It is very much acceptable for TL to use subjective discretion in leading the creation threads. If the TL appears to be acting on personal bias with other members, that would not be acceptable. But, I don't see any evidence of that here.
There were ~40 legal concepts and Tennis decided to narrow it to 10. That means 30 people are going to be upset. Personally, I wish Tennis would have picked a couple other Concepts that I really liked. But, I'm not the TL. In this case, I'm just like everyone else. I'm sure if I polled every person on the project, they would have a different idea of the "best" 10 concepts. But, Tennis is the TL, and therefore his opinion is the one that matters most -- when it comes to determining a slate of choices.
Remember, Tennis' vote amongst these 10 is the same as the rest of us. So, Tennis can't actually *pick* anything for the project. Just ask any past TL's how many votes "went their way". It's astoundingly few...
Break the Mould and Nerf
Both concepts seem like things that could pass for real pokémon if done correctly. A rock-type Special Sweeper sounds cool, and maybe we could make something with a crippling ability actually be functional, unlike Regigigas. Maybe this one doesn't have to be a physical normal sweeper?
Both concepts seem like things that could pass for real pokémon if done correctly. A rock-type Special Sweeper sounds cool, and maybe we could make something with a crippling ability actually be functional, unlike Regigigas. Maybe this one doesn't have to be a physical normal sweeper?
I would much rather do this by PM, or on the server. But I'll say it right here: I have absolutely nothing against you. I even cut out my own submission! So unless I had something against myself and everyone else who didn't make it, I fail to believe that's the reason that yours wasn't selected.
I voted for the Nerf and Break the Mold. They both seemed like they would be fun to do, and need a lot of thought to be done well. For Break the Mold we'd have to first decide on what the "mold" is, and for Nerf we'd have to figure out what constitutes a good pokemon, and what would be the best way to weaken it.
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