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CAP 7 CAP 7 - Stat Spread Submissions/Discussion

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Magmortified

<b>CAP 8 Playtesting Expert</b>
is a CAP Contributor Alumnus
Our Pokemon so far:

Beej said:
Name: Ultimate Scout
Description: A Pokemon that is very capable of forcing the opponent to reveal vital information about their team members and their moves using various techniques.
Click to expand...

Type: Steel / Ghost

The final Stat Spreads submitted for the stat spread poll must conform to the numeric rating limits voted in the various bias and rating polls -- the Offensive/Defensive Balance (ODB), the Physical/Special Balance (PSB) and the overall Base Stats Rating (BSR). Any spread that does not conform to these limits will be disqualified by the TL. As the bias and rating polls unfold, the discussion in the Stat Spread Submission thread should adapt accordingly.

Note: You MUST include Base Stat Ratings in your submissions, otherwise they will be deleted.

For reference when submitting Stat Spreads.
 
My starter submission, likely prone to some change from now till poll time:

70/80/75/85/70/110
BST: 490
ODB: 18.5
PSB: -0.3
BSR: 230

Hp and defences make absolutely certain this will not become a tank of any kind. Decent offences allow it to become a decent threat, given STAB supereffective hits. and 110 speed is necessary for this to become an option over Jirachi. Chances are i see them getting similar movepools, so it needs at least 1 stat superior to Jirachi. Speed could rise as high as 115, as to provide scounting against pokemon such as Starmie and Lati@s.
 
I was thinking something along the lines of: 80/54/85/100/80/111. Total is 510.

ODB: 18.7
PSB: -30
Overall Rating: 286

The speed is just enough to out speed Lati@s, Gengar and Infernape, but it loses to Starmie, Weavile and Aerodactyl. It has decent offense to threaten things with Shadow Ball and other Super effective attacks. 90 is the lowest Atk/SAtk that I think would be useful, since anything lower makes this guy unable to hit anything outside of super effective attacks. I chose SAtk to be the primary form of offense, since that way, he can easily lure out Blissey, and then proceed to U-Turn away, giving something like Scizor a free Swords Dance. Of course the same thing can be done with a decent Atk stat, but there are a lot less Calm Minders/Nasty Plotters than Swords Dancers/Cursers/Bulk Uppers, who would take advantage of this. Defenses were enough to get it the right bias, and still being sturdy enough to take a hit. :D
 
80/80/90/100/100/100
Phys. Sweepiness: 120
Phys Tankiness: 117
Spec. Sweepiness: 149
Spec. tankiness: 128
O/D balance: 8.4: Slight Bias to Offense
P/S balance: -17.0: moderate bias to special
Overall rating: 365-very good.
stat spread total-550

note: this is not final.
 
85/85/70/85/80/116

ODB:11.0
PSB:-5.9
Overall:295

Speed stat makes him faster than most pokemon, including azelf and starmie, two pokemon that may require scouting, but keeps it slower than areodactyl, stratigem and weavile. Its otherwise average stats insure that it wont be a true sweeper or a tank, but has potencial to do both. Also, its defenses are at the level where it can just survive any unboosted dragon attack in the game.

Im open to suggestions though.
 
STATS
HP / Atk / Def / SpA / SpD / Spe
70 / 90 / 70 / 85 / 80 / 115
BST: 510

aser.png


DAMAGE CALCS:
DEFENSIVE
Syclant Modest Specs Bug Buzz against max HP Ghost / Steel:
540 Atk vs 196 Def & 364 HP (90 Base Power): 133 - 157 (36.54% - 43.13%)
Azelf (neutral natured) Fire Blast against max HP Ghost / Steel:
349 Atk vs 186 Def & 364 HP (120 Base Power): 324 - 382 (89.01% - 104.95%)
CB Tyranitar max Attack Crunch against max HP Ghost / Steel:
604 Atk vs 176 Def & 321 HP (80 Base Power): 295 - 348 (91.90% - 108.41%)
CB Tyranitar max Attack Stone Edge against max HP Ghost / Steel:
604 Atk vs 176 Def & 321 HP (100 Base Power): 184 - 217 (57.32% - 67.60%)
Max SpA Timid Life Orb Stratagem Flamethrower against max HP Ghost / Steel:
339 Atk vs 176 Def & 364 HP (95 Base Power): 340 - 402 (93.41% - 110.44%)

OFFENSIVE (using possible attacking moves)
Max Attack Ghost / Steel (neutral natured) Bullet Punch against min/min Syclant:
279 Atk vs 176 Def & 281 HP (40 Base Power): 138 - 164 (49.11% - 58.36%)
Max Attack Ghost / Steel (neutral natured) Iron Head against min/min Syclant:
279 Atk vs 176 Def & 281 HP (80 Base Power): 272 - 324 (96.80% - 115.30%)
Max SpA Ghost / Steel (neutral natured) Shadow Ball against max HP Celebi:
269 Atk vs 236 Def & 404 HP (80 Base Power): 198 - 234 (49.01% - 57.92%)
Max Attack Ghost / Steel (neutral natured) Bullet Punch against min/min Stratagem:
279 Atk vs 166 Def & 321 HP (40 Base Power): 146 - 174 (45.48% - 54.21%)
Max Attack Ghost / Steel (neutral natured) Iron Head against min/min Stratagem:
279 Atk vs 166 Def & 321 HP (80 Base Power): 288 - 342 (89.72% - 106.54%)
Max SpA Ghost / Steel (neutral natured) Shadow Ball against max HP / 120 SpD Careful Revenankh:
279 Atk vs 297 Def & 384 HP (80 Base Power): 164 - 194 (42.71% - 50.52%)
 
100 / 82 / 85 / 70 / 75 / 118

672800cap7stats.jpg


With a BST of 530.

I don't see why CAP7 should be totally useless defensively. 100 HP gives it the potential to make 101 Subs, handy for scouting Seismic Tosses (I know it sounds useless, but I'm assuming the opponent switches to Blissey looking to Thunder Wave. Apart from that, Substitute is widely regarded as a great safety buffer and very handy for scouting an opponent's moves.)

118 Speed means it outspeeds Infernape, Starmie, Fidgit and Azelf, all very diverse Pokemon who have good typings and movesets to switch into CAP7.

85 base defence means it isn't 2HKOed by Choice Band Metagross' Meteor Mash (bar an attack boost) with no defense EVs. 75 SDef means it isn't 2HKOed by Choice Specs Salamences' Draco Meteor (again with no SDef EVs). While the defences aren't fantastic, they're enough to handle powerful moves that Scoutmon resists.

82 Attack gives it something to hit with, and 70 SAtt means Scoutmon could be slightly unpredictable itself. However, neither is enough to sweep with, like the defensive stats aren't enough to tank with.

This may change later.

EDIT: I can see that it's going to need to change when the poll is complete, since most people are looking for a slightly offensive Scout.
 
90/75/80/83/80/117=525

Phys. Sweepiness: 119
Phys Tankiness: 113
Spec. Sweepiness: 131
Spec. tankiness: 113
O/D balance: 8.0: Slight Bias to Offense
P/S balance: -5.5: Slight bias to special
Overall rating: 278-quite good.

Just toying with things at this point, I gave it 117 speed to outspeed Starmie and Azelf as well as max speed jolly Tryanitar after a DD. Something 116 doesn't do.

The other one I'm working on is as followed.

98/90/70/80/70/122=530

Phys. Sweepiness: 143
Phys Tankiness: 107
Spec. Sweepiness: 127
Spec. tankiness: 107
O/D balance: 16.1: Moderate Bias to Offense
P/S balance: 6.6: Slight bias to physical
Overall rating: 300-very good.

I like this one better personally, HP gives it some bulk but sub-par defenses arn't doing much for it, though they're most suspect to change. 122 Speed outspeeds Starmie, Azelf, Alakazam, Sceptile and most importantly Dugtrio, who can trap and kill with STABed super effective EQ's.


I'll have damage calcs once I eather get some feedback or finalise a set some more. In the end I think I'll mix the two, on a side note I'm throwing my support behind Umbreon Dan (barring mine of course)
 
Final Submission

48/95/105/70/95/117

Total: 530



Rationale: 95 attack is the highest it can go IMO before it becomes a ridiculously good sweeper. Defensively it should be "average" due to its awesome typing, but as a steel type giving it a low defense stat doesn't make sense, so it has low HP (always 3HKOd by night shade) and high defense. Special attack is high enough to make sense for a ghost, but not high enough to be of much use (though it is not useless). Speed is high enough to outspeed most pokemon, especially ones with a lot of variety in sets that need to be scouted, but not high enough to outspeed key pokemon. The BST of 530 seems to fit well with the most popular art designs, which are usually of mysterious, rare and powerful looking pokemon. AFAIK, this is also consistent with all the polls.
 
I don't normally make submissions for stat spreads, because I usually like other spreads very quickly after the thread gets opened. But, I'm not seeing any spreads that have the general mix I'm looking for. Here's what I had in mind:

80/90/80/70/90/110 = 520

Phys. Sweepiness: 140 (Rank 3: Good)
Phys Tankiness: 106 (Rank 0: Average)
Spec. Sweepiness: 109 (Rank 0: Average)
Spec. Tankiness: 117 (Rank 1: Above Average)
Off/Def Balance: 9.7: (Slight Bias to Offense)
Phys/Spec Balance: 8.3: (Slight Bias to physical)
Overall Rating: 278 (Quite Good)

If we decided to bump this up to the "Very Good" range, then I would give it some more Attack. I also might lower the SpDef to 80, and let it have 80's across the board defensively. That is quite generous for a pokemon with the vast array of resistances our Scoutmon possesses.

I don't see much of a reason to give this more than 110 speed. I've seen mention of outspeeding Starmie and Azelf. I think that's overkill. Scoutmon already hits those pokemon for SE damage with STAB. To outspeed the "fast psychics" is way overkill in my opinion. We don't need to dominate every pokemon in the dex. It's OK to have a few close calls decided by player skill. With Azelf and Starmie, they have speed, we have STAB superiority -- may the best player win...

At 110, we can do a few nice things:
  • Beat the base 100's (Salamence, Celebi, Jirachi, etc). That's the biggest thing for me.

  • Ties with Gengar. We're neutral to his primary STAB, and he gets killed by ours. We don't need to outspeed Gengar. A tie is a bad bet for Gengar, and he's likely switching out.

  • Outspeeds Infernape, in case we actually try to give Scoutmon a move that could threaten the fire monkey when we switch in on a predicted Close Combat. I'm not sure we should bother with handling Nape, but with 110 speed we aren't totally doomed from the outset.
 
Here's my submission:

121 HP / 91 Atk / 61 Def / 61 SpAtk / 61 SpDef / 121 Spe = 516 BST

Physical Sweepiness: 145 (Rank 4: Very Good)
Physical Tankiness: 109 (Rank 0: Average)
Special Sweepiness: 98 (Rank 0: Average)
Special Tankiness: 109 (Rank 0: Average)
Offense/Defense Balance: 15.7 (Moderate Bias to Offense)
Physical/Special Balance: 21.6 (Bias to Physical)
Overall Rating: 267 (Quite Good)

While not completely overwhelming offensively or defensively, this Pokemon is FAST. High speed is a neccessity for a good scout. With high HP but low defense and special defense, it can handle some attacks, but needs investment in defenses to be able to handle the more powerful ones. It also allows it to baton pass bigger substitutes, assuming that CAP7 does get both moves. It has a good enough special attack stat to scare off some Pokemon. With it's typing, it's a great anti-priority Pokemon, which matches it's high Speed. It also needs more than 110 Speed in order to outspeed scarf Magnezone and U-turn away from it. What use is a scout if it gets trapped and dies? The same can be said about 120 Speed and Dugtrio.
Offense/Defense Balance, Physical/Special Balance, and Overall Rating match polls now. Tell me if anything should need to be edited.
 
100/90/75/90/75/116 = 550

Phys. Sweepiness: 142 (Rank 3: Good)
Phys Tankiness: 114 (Rank 1: Above Average)
Spec. Sweepiness: 142 (Rank 3: Good)
Spec. Tankiness: 114 (Rank 1: Above Average)
Off/Def Balance: 12.1: (Moderate Bias to Offense)
Phys/Spec Balance: 0.0: (No Bias)
Overall Rating: 364 (Very Good)

116 speed allows it to beat all the base 115's including Azelf. 100 HP allows for 101 subs, useful against Blissey.
 
100/90/75/80/75/120

Base Stat Total: 535
Phys. Sweepiness: 142 (Rank 3: Good)
Phys Tankiness: 112 (Rank 1: Above Average)
Spec. Sweepiness: 126 (Rank 2: Moderately Good)
Spec. Tankiness: 114 (Rank 1: Above Average)
Off/Def Balance: 12.1: (Moderate Bias to Offense)
Phys/Spec Balance: 6.6: (Slight Bias to Physical)
Overall Rating: 323 (Very Good)

120 Speed to outrun lots of things, namely base 115s. 100 HP because it's a nice round number, gives it some bulkiness, and allows for Sub-Passing if we elect to give CAP7 Baton Pass. A slight bias to the physical side to make a little bit more out of U-Turn, 2HKOing Azelf with 140 Attack EVs. 80 Sp.Atk to make it usable for Hidden Power, perhaps, and 75 in each defense just so that we don't end up abusing its great typing to make an unbreakable wall.
 
I'll throw my hat in the ring.
The stats are pretty high, I'll give an explanation.

33e32g3.jpg

Hits a BST of 525.
HP: I don't want this thing to totally take so many hits, and 75 seemed like a good number.
Attack: Pretty high for a scout, but a strong U-Turn and Shadow Sneak seems like a good idea too.
Defense: Thinking it's a bit high, but I like it. Easier to take hits from the likes of Salamence Outrage, Lucario Crunch, un STAB Earthquakes better...
Special Attack: I DO NOT want this to be a special sweeper. Stratagem already has the 'lol i'm so good at sweeping' covered, and I really don't want a knight Pokemon being special.
Special Defense: It takes high damage from Flamethrower and Earth Power already, but I wanted it to survive at least one hit unboosted.
Speed: Ties with Azelf and a few other mons, but does not beat them. Without heavy Speed investment and a boosting nature, you won't outspeed them always, which I want.

If it's a bit too powerful, tell me.
 
My submission:

80/92/76/86/76/125 BST: 535.

PSweep: 147 (Rank 4, Very Good)
PTank: 102 (Rank 0, Average)
SSweep: 137 (Rank 3, Good)
STank: 102 (Rank 0, Average)
ODB: 19.9 (Moderate Bias to Offense)
PSB: 3.8 (No Bias)
Overall: 314 (Very Good)

The credo of the scout:

The scout avoids enemy traps.

In order to relay information back to its commander, the scout must be skilled at evading the opponent's traps. A caught scout is a useless scout.

125 Speed enables this to outspeed Jolly CB Dugtrio and Timid Scarf Magnezone. It could then U-Turn out of them.

The scout can neutralize one of the opponent's greater weapons.

What good is a scout if, upon finding an unprotected enemy weapons depot, he cannot dispose of it? One does not subject their superiors to risk if they can sabotage the enemy's greatest weapon on their own first.

With poor offensive STABs, this pokemon relies on weaknesses to get KOs. Assuming a spread of 200 Atk/92 SA/216 Spe [Naive nature] @ Lum Berry, I present the following calculations:

Iron Head on standard BoahTar: 56-66%
Shadow Claw on standard BU Revenank: 48-58%

Shadow Ball on physical tank Dusknoir: 44-53%
Shadow Ball on Standard BU Revenank: 34-41%

Ice Beam on standard SpecsMence: 97-115%
Ice Beam on standard DDNite: 83-98%

Earthquake on standard Scarftran: 103-122%
Earthquake on standard (Hasty) Mixape: 82-97%

Focus Punch on standard Cleric Blissey: 68-80%

Thunderbolt on Standard DDDos: 81-96%

HP Fire on Standard SD Scizor: 83-98%
HP Fire on Standard Forretress: 82-97%

Signal Beam on Physically Defensive Celebi: 52-62%

Grass Knot on Standard Physical Tank Swampert: 55-66%

The point of all these calculations is the following:

Even if you were to run an all out offensive set, and used Life Orb instead of Lum to avoid status, you cannot effectively scout because you either cannot switch in repeatedly, must take an opponents attack, or can't KO them anyhow. You can specialize in one offense or the other to take out the biggest threat to your team, but you don't have a good STAB to really sweep with. Furthermore, it barely OHKOs or 2HKOs opponents with 4x weaknesses, against "regular" pokemon, a "sweeper" set does ineffectual damage. Aside from that, my listed Calcs utilize 10 different moves. Even if you did want to do an all out sweeper, you would still be rendered ineffective by something.
 
I have decided that we may make a fast tank, something that most Pokemon existing isn't. Stats spread is as follows:

HP: 105
Atk: 35
Def: 96
SpA: 90
SpD: 86
Spe: 111
Total: 523

Ratings:
Physical Sweepiness: 61 (-5, Extremely Bad)
Physical Tankiness: 144 (4, Very Good)
Special Sweepiness: 141 (3, Very Good)
Special Tankiness: 131 (3, Very Good)
Offense/Defense Balance : -1.3 (No Bias)
Physical/Special Balance: -41.0 (Extremely Bias to Special)
Overall Rating: 320 (Very Good)

Note that the physical and special attack can be switched.

Legendary Pokemon aside, there is almost no Pokemon that can tank with a fast speed bar Gliscor, who is 4x weak to Ice. 111 speed allows it to outspeed Infernape, who is unable to hit it with Mach Punch or Vacuum Wave. With it alright Tankiness, a little bit of offense would help, but not too much. That's why this spread should have a 41 or -41 (or so) Physical or Special Balance.
 
HP 105 / Atk 110 / Def 72 / SpA 66 / SpD 61 / Spe 116

BST: 530

Physical Sweepiness: 176 / Rank 6: Amazing
Physical Tankiness: 114 / Rank 1: Above Average
Special Sweepiness: 105 / Rank 0: Average
Special Tankiness: 100 / Rank 0: Average
Offensive/Defensive balance: 24.1 / Bias to offense
Physical/special balance: 35.1 / Large bias to physical
Overall rating: 363 / Very good
 
HP 45 / Atk 90 / Def 105 / SpA 75 / SpD 95 / Spe 125

Physical Sweepiness: 143 / Rank 3: Good
Physical Tankiness: 103 / Rank 0: Average
Special Sweepiness: 119 / Rank 1: Above Average
Special Tankiness: 94 / Rank 0: Average

Offensive/Defensive balance: 18.3 / Moderate Bias to Offense
Physical/special balance: 14.8 / Moderate Bias to Physical

Overall rating: 262/ Quite Good

Base Stat Total: 535

both me and deck knight had that same idea to how to approach this pokemon.my spread would play out about the same as his, but with slightly less sweeping and tanking abilities. this is to emphasize its purpose to the project, to scout. i feel giving this pokemon large attacks and/or defence spread will lose its primary focus once its finished.
 
Thank you to Stellar and Deck Knight for the damage calcs, I wouldn't vote for any spread that didnt have them.

It's really important to see how this would fare switching in in the CAP Metagame, and also see what it could potentially threaten out.

If I don't know that, I don't see how I could vote a for a stat spread.
 
My stat spread so far:

HP: 89
Atk: 82
Def: 80
SpA: 82
SpD: 80
Spe: 112
BST: 525

Physical Tankiness: 113 (Above Average)
Physical Sweepiness: 128 (Moderately Good)
Special Tankiness: 113 (Above Average)
Special Sweepiness: 128 (Moderately Good)
ODB: 7.1 (Slight Bias to Offense)
PSB: 0.0 (No Bias)
BSR: 288 (Quite Good)

Outspeeds base 110ers. In my opinion, a scout shouldn't be overly offensive, so an 82 in both attacking stats coupled with 112 speed is fine. Defensively, it can take a hit or two, but not too much.

I'll be refining this and explain this stat spread in more detail once the polls provide a clearer picture.
 
k2czz6.png

505 BST.

It's a scout. Meaning it is placed at the head to figure out what is going on the first turn or two, then get the hell out of there. It's not supposed to tank. It's supposed to get in, get out, and that is its only purpose. It's got weaknesses like any other pokemon and the stats simply make up for the defenses that the typing give.
 
Kaleidoscope said:
A lot of people are giving him 100 base for HP so he can make 101 hp subs. Isn't he immune to seismic toss anyway?
Click to expand...

LOL
I wasn't thinking at the time, apparently.

778042cap7stats.jpg


Here's my new set. It had to fit the poll result of being offensive, so I've reduced the HP stat dramatically and added a bit to the offenses.

On the speed, I think I have to disagree with Doug. To me, outrunning Starmie and Azelf is important as they'll sometimes OHKO with a Flamethrower or a Choice Specs Surf with this set and no EVs. With this speed, he makes great switch-ins into both with good prediction by blocking Explosion and Rapid Spin.
 
Thorns said:
(spread)
Click to expand...
I was thinking along the lines of this one, it should be somewhat threatening to force switches imo, and it's going to find that hard to do without a decent degree of attacking power. I think you might wanna reduce the defense a little, especially if deck knight's new ability wins. So I probably won't submit anything this time :P
 
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