CAP 8 CAP 8 - Part 1 - Concept Poll 2

[cyberzero]

The first Concept Poll is over and now we'll be holding a clicky-poll.

Discussion in the thread is encouraged. How realistic and viable the concept will be for the community to uphold should be the driving force of the conversation, in order for us to base our next CAP around the best possible concept!

Concepts will be posted in order of the last poll's results:

Name: Kingdra in the Snow

General Description: A pokémon with good but not excellent sweeping potential which, under Hail conditions, can become definitely a threatening attacking force.

Justification: Let's face it. The only viable way to run hail in OU is through stall. Things like Glaceon, Syclant, Weavile and so on, can't give to said teams the sweeping edge. They are quite unviable in OU (Glaceon), better off sweeping in a non-Hail team which can support them better (Syclant), or do not benefit from hail at all for sweeping purposes aside from breaking Focus Sashes(Weavile).

While a single Pokémon can't all of a sudden completely change a strategy, we all know that Rain Offense would not be all that threatening without Kingdra in the equation (heck, whenever you see a Rain Dance setup you can almost bet that there's a Kingdra waiting in the wings!).

So, I'd say that it would have a positive effect on the metagame. It would give Hail a chance to stray a bit from stall by putting it on the offensive, and could give to a low-used weather effect a tool to shine a bit in the OU environment.

Explanation: Of course, Hail itself help little in the way of offense, aside from the damage itself and Blizzard accuracy boost. So, This Pokémon will need:
1) A proper typing. Ice/(Rock resistant type) is the most probable, but going for something non-Ice is a possibility.
2) A good ability. Probably a custom ability, since the current Hail-related abilities do not help sweeping directly. This ability would also nullify Hail damage in case CAP8 does not turn to be an Ice Pokémon (like Cacturne's case)

Name: Neglected Ability

Description: This pokemon will have an ability [or two] that is currently undervalued (but possibly very helpful) in the metagame but isn't used because the other pokemon with this ability don't have the stats or movepool to make it work.

Justification: This is probably one of the best ways to go about learning about the metagame. Seeing why certain abilities don't see much play and what we can do to make them more used is an easy way to learn about the metagame. There is also the possibility that this pokemon will have a beneficial effect on the metagame and/or will create a new niche in the metagame (or take the niche of an old pokemon that didn't see much play).

Explanation: There are plenty of abilities that we can base a concept around that don't see much play. I'm thinking things like Shield Dust (we all know how much I want a good pokemon to abuse this!), Shed Skin (though Rev has this covered imo), Simple, hell even things such as Solar Power or Forewarn. It would be silly of me to try and list out all the abilities we could use for this.

I like this concept because it doesn't restrict typing or stats or whatever. There are so many possible directions this could go in we aren't narrowing too much down, but at the same time I feel it provides just enough direction to keep the pokemon on track.

Name: The Pivot Point

General Description:This Pokemon would help add a new element to making offensive teams. Instead of going full glass cannon or bulky offense, it would be possible to structure a team around this Pokemon and use it strategically to keep the momentum of the battle going in your favor.

Justification: This Pokemon wouldn't be a wall. Nor would it encourage walls. This would take some hits and allow your offensive team a base to build itself around. Essentially the glue that holds everything together while your other Pokemon do their jobs. Ideally, it would also be able to dish out some damage, so as to hold momentum. It would definitely give a positive effect on the metagame.

Explanation: It will make the other Pokemon's job easier through support, yet it will still be able to keep itself on the offense with decent enough attacks. But its primary function would be to - through typing, stats, or combination of both, be the glue of the team that holds everything together to your advantage.

Name: Infinite Attack

General Description: A Pokemon that can use multi-damage attacks to break down the opponent's Leads and tankish Pokemon.

Justification: With Stealth Rock leads and wall teams led by Fidgit and Arghonaut currently dominating CAP, the Infinite Attack Pokemon should be able to give players something to break down this heavy Stall that rely on you not critting or not breaking their subs without relying on stat-boosting and gives lesser known moves a chance. This also would stop Substitute and Endure (the latter is rare, I know).

Explanation: The are plenty of moves (Double Hit, Double Kick, Fury Attack, Icicle Spear, and even Beat Down) as well as plenty of abilities (Technician, Super Luck, Skill Link, ect.) that could help this work. These moves are underused because they are generally on useless Pokemon, but they are so helpful, especially if your team is constantly in trouble from Sub Pressure Pokemon (Zapdos) or even Lead Focus Sashers (Azelf). If the right Pokemon we given these moves, we could see a whole new change in the metagame (more teams relying on high power to boost Beat Up and attack, as well as less teams relying to Pressure Stall or flat out stall, as these moves have greater chances of Critical Hits).

Concept: Para-busing tank.

General Description: Paralysis is one of the most crippling statuses in the game. It reduces an opponents speed by an amazing 75%, allowing even your slowest heavy hitters to pile onto your opponent's pokemon, particularly those frail sweepers who rely heavily on hit and run tactics. Additionally it gives them a 25% attack to be incapable of any attack. The idea would be to abuse all elements of paralysis and go in a direction most of the other CAPs have avoided.

Justification: There are many slow wallish pokemon that can paralyze an opponent but they generally come in two flavors: They either require stat-up to deal damage or they have a questionable offensive (or defensive) type or stats. The end goal of this concept is to make a pokemon that can paralyze often and abuse it to its fullest extent either through further move reduction options, free Leftovers turns, flinching attacks, or simply raw brute force applied to a formerly viable check. Eliminating the "speed-speed-speed" mindset of the metagame would open more opportunities for pokemon with other selling points.

How powerful is paralysis? The goal of this concept will be to push it to its limits. Will there suddenly be an onslaught of Limber/Quick Feet/Natural Cure pokemon and clerics? Will Gyro Ball pick up steam? Will EVs change to reflect bulk over speed? Hopefully we can see which of these effects come to pass.

Explanation: The onset of Toxic Spikes and in CAP specifically, Fidgit has led I think to an overemphasis on Toxic status. Many teams now purposely run entire lineups of Levitators, Flyers, and Steel types simply to make the effect of Toxic Spikes nil. It would be interesting to see what would happen if paralysis were feared status #1, as it was in RBY. Really this could go in a variety of directions given the moves that grant paralysis effects. For instance, the pokemon could have No Guard utilized with Zap Cannon or Serene Grace with Dragonbreath, Body Slam, or Discharge. Such strategies have already been proven useful ala Scarf Jirachi and Haxkiss.

Vote away!

 

[jagged_angel]

Snowdra!

This concept gives us a firm base direction for CAP8 without restricting us to a single typing, ability or moves. It is firmly rooted in encouraging a Hail Sweep - something that has never been possible before due to lack of suitable pokemon, yet like Kingdra, a potential Snowdra could be a great addition to balanced teams also.

This would provide a major shake-up to the current, Sandstream common game where Hail is the province of a few experienced player or die hard stall enthusiasts. The addition of a Hail-sweeper CAP could potentially orient the game around Hail/Sun which would be fun and vastly different from the current OU. It's alot to heap on the shoulders of one poke but I think the creation process itself will be fun and also harder than previous CAP concepts to get wrong or fail to achieve.

 

[Infiltrator]

Pivot Point!

 

[zarator]

Kingdra in the Snow again.

 

[Kamen Rider]

Voted for Neglected Ability Again

 

[Huntofthelion]

Kingdra in the snow looks cool

 

[Flounder]

I am of the opinion that Neglected Ability is the best

 

[Veedrock]

I call shenanigans.

Infinite Attack.

Fuck infinite offensive weather abuse. Neglected abilities are often used anyways so focusing an entire project around one is bizarre. Pivot point is eh, and double fuck paralysis.

 

[Articanus]

DK's getting the kick. poor thing ='[

 

[Mr Escalator]

Infinite Attack as well. It was a tossup between the Neglected ability and that, but I feel this one holds the right amount of direction. I'm not too fond of the other concepts besides these two.

 

[XSV]

i pick Kingdra in the Snow

 

[Zoro]

EM's Neglected Ability

kingdra in the snow is so not-creative =()

 

[cyberzero]

I call shenanigans.

Infinite Attack.

Fuck infinite offensive weather abuse. Neglected abilities are often used anyways so focusing an entire project around one is bizarre. Pivot point is eh, and double fuck paralysis.

I voted for Kingdra in the Snow because even though the weather in permanent, it won't be able to do anything in other weather. Sand is all over, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem. Ice is also a weaker defensive type than Water/Dragon, so it'll be at least Neutral against Steel. Our friend Scizor with his STAB + Technician + base 130 attack + priority can definitely do some damage.

 

[Elegy]

Voted Snowdra.
...Here in Minnesota you grow fond of the snow. Ice is also a very nice attacking type.

 

[Pokewiz708]

Kingdra in the Snow

 

[Kevin Garrett]

I went with Elevator Music's Neglected Ability again.

 

[Naxte]

Since Anti-Stall didn't make it, I'm going to go with Kingdra in the Snow. Due to the existence of Perma-Hail in the form of Abomasnow, I was originally unsure about such a concept. However, after giving it some thought and considering the very valid points that people such as zarator made in defense of the idea, I now feel that it should wind up just fine and thus give my full support to it.

 

[zarator]

I voted for Kingdra in the Snow because even though the weather in permanent, it won't be able to do anything in other weather. Sand is all over, so it shouldn't be that much of a problem. Ice is also a weaker defensive type than Water/Dragon, so it'll be at least Neutral against Steel. Our friend Scizor with his STAB + Technician + base 130 attack + priority can definitely do some damage.

Cyber, remember also that no one said it MUST be Ice-Typed. Cacturne performs nicely (or would perform nicely, with better stats) in Sandstorm, resisting Water attacks that damage a lot of SS Pokémon (Again, if it has better stats). A "Snowdra" could very well be typed differently from Ice, for example Fighting (good to take on Tyranitar), Electric (Which is nice against Cizor for the Stell Resist) and so on. Most of these types, moreover, combine well with Ice (Fighting/Ice, Electric/Ice are very good attacking combos), or even together (Fightin/Electric would absorb a lot of the attacks that plague Hail teams).

Sorry for the bit of Poll-jumping, but I don't want more skeptical people to assume that, if my concept wins, CAP8 will necessarily be Ice-typed. There is a thread to discuss this.

 

[jagged_angel]

I don't want more skeptical people to assume that, if my concept wins, CAP8 will necessarily be Ice-typed

quite!

even though the weather in permanent, it won't be able to do anything in other weather.

I would also hope that this wont be a CAP that people just forget about outside of Hail.

That Snowdra will be useless outside of Hail is not a safe assumption. No one wants to vote for a CAP that is a deadweight when TTar switches in.

Kingdra is a monster under Rain but is also an ok DDancer without happy weather.

If Snowdra wins, one would hope that it would at least be an OU poke outside of Hail, even if it aint top OU.

 

[tennisace]

Seriously, Kingdra of the Snow?

- something that has never been possible before due to lack of suitable pokemon,

Obviously you weren't there during Syclant's height after the first CAP, Hail was dominant, along with Sand. Rain and Sun were never seen, until CAP3 when some sun teams appeared. After that, Sand became completely dominant and remains so today since Tyranitar is such a beast.

Question: If this concept DOESN'T have to be Ice type, why would I want to use it in hail if it limits it's sweeping ability by losing 6.25% HP per turn? Kingdra is inherantly an offensive Pokemon, so by definition it would either be using Life Orb, a choice item, or a berry of sorts. I wouldn't want my sweeper to lose 6.25% per turn when I could just use something like Stratagem, who is bulky with the 1.5x SpD boost in Sand, and doesn't lose HP from weather.

That brings up another point: Hail teams need to have various ice types to take advantage of hail, else it's just Abomasnow on a team of Pokemon. What happens when Tyranitar, who can almost singlehandedly demolish those teams with a combination of Sand and Rock attacks, becomes even more prevalent than it already is? Arguably this would make the metagame worse since it would centralize the metagame around controlling the weather.

Last, Hail is an inferior weather. All the other weathers benefit a type directly, while Hail does not. It only raises Blizzard's accuracy, and activates two abilities on only 5 Pokemon, not including this new CAP if we go with this concept.

The addition of a Hail-sweeper CAP could potentially orient the game around Hail/Sun

Why would I bother with a Sun team when I can easily switch in Tyranitar and change the weather in my favor while simultaneously smashing your team to bits?

 

[Elevator Music]

@Tennis, as was pointed out, it doesn't 100% necessarily HAVE to be Ice type, as it could have something like Snow Cloak to give itself the hail immunity (though I don't see what then would make it a good Hail sweeper...)


EDIT- Still don't think I'm voting because I don't want to vote myself and realllly don't like the other concepts too much. If I had to choose I'd guess it'd be between Infinite Attack and DK's submission.

 

[tennisace]

Then again, why bother with a Hail sweeper if you can't benefit from STAB 100% accurate Blizzard, since that's one of the big reasons to use Hail, not evasion increase.

 

[Joatmon]

Voted for EM's Neglected Ability this time around, seeing as that one seems like the most fun to work with.

 

[petrie911]

I'm sticking with Infinite Attack.

 

[bear]

Its not that kingdra of the snow isnt creative but if this is trying to change the whole meta game shouldnt just add depth to snow teams but the OU environment as a whole.