CAP Battle

[Ninjabait]

Alright, edited slightly. Might wanna' do the same on your post, then.

Done.

I might as well spill the beans on how to play as Vitalimar. You need to delete any character's .player file and rename Vitalimar's file to the file you just deleted (for example, If you delete Pyroak.player, rename Vitalimar.player as Pyroak.player). I'm not sure if cartoon cares if people play as a character they weren't suppose to, but playing a Vitalimar is still pretty fun (If you don't like it cartoons, say the word and I'll delete this post!)

Huh, neat. I'll check to see if copying the contents of the Vitalimar file and pasting it into the other player works. I should also check to see if you can do this with Cyclohm and Kit. Edit: Ha, I got Ninja'd. Cyclohm and Kit don't work perfectly, apparently.

 

[Cartoons!]

Hey guys, a load of work's recently landed in my lap, so I may not be able to go on the server or play any online games for the next couple of days.

If people want to try Vitalimar, go ahead. As I mentioned above though, doing so will likely compromise your ability to connect to other people on Lunaport.
His specials are:
Vital Throw (running grab)
forward, down, forward, attack
Body Slam (slam)
down, weak in the air
Wring Out (swinging grab)
down, medium in the air
Bounce (bounces off other wall and slams down)
down, strong in the air
Seismic Toss
is his air grab, works like rev's or fidgit's
Reversal (super)
down back forward attack...the lower vitalimar's health, the more damage it does

Endure (ability)
use as you're getting hit by an attack that would ko you to survive with 1hp (can still be grabbed/tripped..)

Also, his forward dash puts him in a run mode which allows him to jump farther.

I'm currently working on including some of the latest CAPs and will make some aesthetic and balance changes for the next version. Balance tweaks, however, will be based on the experience I've gathered playing other people online, and not from fighting the cpus.

Finally, the inclusion of CAPs that never quite were is something I am considering, but will keep quiet about for the time being.

Thanks again everyone for your continued enthusiasm, looking forward to seeing more of you online in the future!

 

[Xaqwais]

I find Stratagem is almost perfectly balanced, he's a nice character with nothing particularly unfair.

Hah, a lot of us online consider Stratagem the best character, as he has no bad matchups. He is great in every way other than his HP. From his quick attacks, amazing trip, great projectiles, small hitbox (to hit him, not what he hits with).

If I made a quick Tier List it would be
High - Stratagem, Fidgit
Middle - Pyroak, Rev, Syclant
Low - Argo

Obviously a tier list by one person with 6 characters is nothing good at all, but that's how I see it. And yes, I put Pyroak in middle tier.

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

Pyroak is probably the second best, since he has a high damage output and is Gem's worst matchup (though it's still in Gem's favor kind of)

Syclant would probably be ten times higher if anybody actually used him to his full potential

 

[Ninjabait]

Hey guys, a load of work's recently landed in my lap, so I may not be able to go on the server or play any online games for the next couple of days.

If people want to try Vitalimar, go ahead. As I mentioned above though, doing so will likely compromise your ability to connect to other people on Lunaport.
His specials are:
Vital Throw (running grab)
forward, down, forward, attack
Body Slam (slam)
down, weak in the air
Wring Out (swinging grab)
down, medium in the air
Bounce (bounces off other wall and slams down)
down, strong in the air
Seismic Toss
is his air grab, works like rev's or fidgit's
Reversal (super)
down back forward attack...the lower vitalimar's health, the more damage it does

Endure (ability)
use as you're getting hit by an attack that would ko you to survive with 1hp (can still be grabbed/tripped..)

Also, his forward dash puts him in a run mode which allows him to jump farther.

I'm currently working on including some of the latest CAPs and will make some aesthetic and balance changes for the next version. Balance tweaks, however, will be based on the experience I've gathered playing other people online, and not from fighting the cpus.

Finally, the inclusion of CAPs that never quite were is something I am considering, but will keep quiet about for the time being.

Thanks again everyone for your continued enthusiasm, looking forward to seeing more of you online in the future!

Thanks for posting the movepool, Cartoons!. :D

Sounds good, are you going to nerf Rev's crouch medium? It's easy to full-zero combo almost anyone but Argo do to it's good range, damage, and speed. The reason why it sucks against Argo is because of Cut, which, from what I've experienced has a higher speed and range, which can beat it, allowing for some combos.

Hah, a lot of us online consider Stratagem the best character, as he has no bad matchups. He is great in every way other than his HP. From his quick attacks, amazing trip, great projectiles, small hitbox (to hit him, not what he hits with).

If I made a quick Tier List it would be
High - Stratagem, Fidgit
Middle - Pyroak, Rev, Syclant
Low - Argo

Obviously a tier list by one person with 6 characters is nothing good at all, but that's how I see it. And yes, I put Pyroak in middle tier.

I have no problems with that tier list. In fact, I could see it becoming official, with one slight change:

High: Strata, Fidgit, Vitalimar
Middle: Pyroak, Rev, Syclant
Low: Argo

Well, he IS playable.

Pyroak is probably the second best, since he has a high damage output and is Gem's worst matchup (though it's still in Gem's favor kind of)

Syclant would probably be ten times higher if anybody actually used him to his full potential

Yes, but because of Charge, it's attacks take too long to use, effectively nerfing his attacking ability. In addition, his movement speed is shit. If I may bring Smash into this, he's effectively like Ganon or Bowser, having great bulk and power, but being slow as hell effectively ruins them.

It's in middle, where it belongs, to be honest. Blizzard is too easy to avoid without first tripping them, and the invincibility frames from getting up/being tripped make it easy for them to block it. Ice Shard's range is limited, Swords Dance and Fury Cutter are decent, although I've found Medium Fury Cutter a bit hard to hit with. He's got a great grab, movement and attacking speed, and does some good damage, so it's kind of average, really.

And I main Syclant, so that's saying something.

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

His aerial medium and flamethrower have decent speed and are still damaging, and Solarbeam is pretty much a ton of free damage if your opponent jumps and you time it right

You can combo into Blizzard, actually.

 

[Xaqwais]

Pyroak is probably the second best, since he has a high damage output and is Gem's worst matchup (though it's still in Gem's favor kind of)

Syclant would probably be ten times higher if anybody actually used him to his full potential

As a Stratagem main, I have to say that your Fidgit gives me the most trouble. I don't find Pyroak that bad, but then again, the character I have faced the least is Pyroak, I guess. I don't really see how he's Gem's hardest matchup though.

I'm getting better with Syclant, but once v03 comes out when he has less cluttered moves, it'll be a big help for him.

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

That's likely because there really isn't anybody who actually plays Pyroak aside from Togekiss, who never seems to actually utilize flamethrower and the rest of Oak's good stuff

Anyway, I'm hosting in the lobby if anybody wants to play.

 

[Ninjabait]

His aerial medium and flamethrower have decent speed and are still damaging, and Solarbeam is pretty much a ton of free damage if your opponent jumps and you time it right

You can combo into Blizzard, actually.

I'll give you MAerial, but Flamethrower require the foe to be in the air to hit, iirc. Solarbeam is powerful, and can't be dodged by anyone either than Stratagem and Vitalimar, iirc. Not only that, it can be blocked very easily do to the huge start up lag.

Well, the hitbox is rather small and has a large startup lag. So it can be blocked easily.

As a Stratagem main, I have to say that your Fidgit gives me the most trouble. I don't find Pyroak that bad, but then again, the character I have faced the least is Pyroak, I guess. I don't really see how he's Gem's hardest matchup though.

I agree with this, in fact, I've found Pyroak to be my second easiest matchup with him. The easiest was Rev.

Edit:

That's likely because there really isn't anybody who actually plays Pyroak aside from Togekiss, who never seems to actually utilize flamethrower and the rest of Oak's good stuff

I've found the Sweatin' CPU Oak to be my best match up, you know the one with near perfect timing and the problem solving of a chess bot.

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

I'll give you MAerial, but Flamethrower require the foe to be in the air to hit, iirc.

Not only that, it can be blocked very easily do to the huge start up lag.

Which is why you use it to block aerial approaches, ie Gem's

Use Solarbeam while the opponent is in the air and can't block, or alternately when they're in the middle of an attack, since it has invincibility frames. It's not going to work if you just use it randomly from fullscreen.

I've found the Sweatin' CPU Oak to be my best match up, you know the one with near perfect timing and the problem solving of a chess bot.

If it's AI then you can't really judge since it can easily be exploited and is nothing like a human player.

Out of curiosity, have you played online or do you just fight the AI?

 

[dfe]

Does anyone else hear a strange sound when beating an opponent with vitalimar? and does it happen when you get beat by it that is if other people hear the strange sound as well lol.

edit:i honestly hope that's not an applause for it when it does the victory dance.

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

Does anyone else hear a strange sound when beating an opponent with vitalimar? and or does it happen when you get beat by it that is if other people hear the strange sound as well lol.

That's probably its voice :V

 

[Golbez_743]

Does anyone else hear a strange sound when beating an opponent with vitalimar? and does it happen when you get beat by it that is if other people hear the strange sound as well lol.

A strange sound? I automatically assumed it was people booing it.

 

[dfe]

well i just felt the need to post that because it happens every time i use it also read the edit because i have a feeling it could be that as well lol.

 

[Ninjabait]

Which is why you use it to block aerial approaches, ie Gem's

Use Solarbeam while the opponent is in the air and can't block, or alternately when they're in the middle of an attack, since it has invincibility frames. It's not going to work if you just use it randomly from fullscreen.


If it's AI then you can't really judge since it can easily be exploited and is nothing like a human player.

Out of curiosity, have you played online or do you just fight the AI?

Well, true. It does have some use, but it's not useful as a general attack.

Again, the timing of the attack has to be perfect to use. Which is Oak's real killer, the attacks aren't that great for general usage.

It probably would play the same as a pro at this game would, since there are no hidden mechanics in the game to put the Human at an advantage. It doesn't really have a bias against or towards certain moves, so it will probably play similar to how an expert would, you know, with the addition of super human timing, which makes the match generally harder and really tests the matchups of the characters. Or at least in Sweatin'.

Just the AI, since, if you look back to my first post in this thread, I stated that I was having Internet troubles, meaning that I couldn't play online. And I've been waiting to go to an Internet HotSpot with my laptop so I could connect. (I have no clue why, but it can't connect to my home Internet (even with the firewall off, mind you), but can connect to other Internets, while the laptop I'm borrowing can connect to my home Internet)

Ah, getting back into Game Debates, I really missed doing this.

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

The AI falls for certain exploits and will never learn either. You can use ice shard while the AI is on the ground, and when it gets back up you can use Syclant's slide and it will almost never switch to blocking low. Sometimes you can use Rev's crawl as it gets up at super close range then grab once the crawl is done, and repeat once the AI is knocked down again. There are more probably, just they don't erally come to my mind at the moment.

Plus there are a lot of things the AI doesn't know, like Fidgit's "throw loop", Rev's combos (it instead relies on superhuman reaction as Rev), etc. It also mashes as Argh, and its Gem is just kind of bad.

 

[Ninjabait]

The AI falls for certain exploits and will never learn either. You can use ice shard while the AI is on the ground, and when it gets back up you can use Syclant's slide and it will almost never switch to blocking low. Sometimes you can use Rev's crawl as it gets up at super close range then grab once the crawl is done, and repeat once the AI is knocked down again. There are more probably, just they don't erally come to my mind at the moment.

Plus there are a lot of things the AI doesn't know, like Fidgit's "throw loop", Rev's combos (it instead relies on superhuman reaction as Rev), etc. It also mashes as Argh, and its Gem is just kind of bad.

Rev's Crawl doesn't work that well in Sweatin', and neither does the Ice Shard strategy. I've thought of, and attempted both in Sweatin', and they failed, while they did succeed in Breezy.

If the throw loop is Earth Power -> Snatch -> Air Grab, or Ground Grab -> Air Grab, it does know how to do those in Sweatin'. Rev combos a lot, in Sweatin' at least.

I'd say that mashing is the best way to play as Argo, since that seems to fit his build, attacks, and general style.

I have no retort to Stratagem, and will agree that the COM's Stratagem is garbage.

 

[Xaqwais]

Yeah, AI isn't the best for getting better. When facing it, I recommend not abusing a move over and over again, but learn the matchup a bit and see what moves help against what tactics and that sort of thing.

Flamethrower is good in concept, but I don't think as viable in play as one might think. To hit Strata out of Levitate with it, you really have to be anticipating it since the reaction time is too quick. And if an APower is coming, you can't really do it, and throw in Power Gem, and it's even more things Gem has to make using Flamethrower hard.

tl; dr: Gem has ways around Flamethower, a lot of ways.

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

They work for me in Sweatin'. You must be doing it wrong, or maybe I have really good luck with the AI

Rev doesn't seem to use the long combos I've seen Cartoons! perform, maybe he does and I'm just not getting close enough though, idk

That's not Fidgit's throw loop, those are just his generic combos (though there's really no reason to use groundthrow -> airthrow unless you're fighting Gem, in which case you're probably not going to get a throw in anyway). Fidgit's throwloop is when he cartwheels you then grabs you, hits you with his f.5c while you land causing you to stay in the air, smacks you with a j.5c then uses cartwheel -> grab again when he lands. The only way to break out of it is to hope the Fidgit player whiffs or to jump right before the grab (in which case they could substitute another move if they expect it). It can't be blocked aside from the cartwheel since you'll just get grabbed. Watch the video of Cartoons! fighting me, I use it at least once. The AI will never use it, anyway.

Edit: Watching that video over again, I was really playing horrible, especially against Syclant, haha. I dropped like half my combos and was generally being kind of stupid

 

[Ninjabait]

Yeah, AI isn't the best for getting better. When facing it, I recommend not abusing a move over and over again, but learn the matchup a bit and see what moves help against what tactics and that sort of thing.

Yup, that's pretty much what I did with Strata. It was a lot more fun trying to find ways to beat certain characters (i.e. Vitalimar is priority bait).

They work for me in Sweatin'. You must be doing it wrong, or maybe I have really good luck with the AI

That's not Fidgit's throw loop, those are just his generic combos (though there's really no reason to use groundthrow -> airthrow unless you're fighting Gem, in which case you're probably not going to get a throw in anyway). Fidgit's throwloop is when he cartwheels you then grabs you, hits you with his f.5c while you land causing you to stay in the air, smacks you with a j.5c then uses cartwheel -> grab again when he lands. The only way to break out of it is to hope the Fidgit player whiffs or to jump right before the grab (in which case they could substitute another move if they expect it). It can't be blocked aside from the cartwheel since you'll just get grabbed. Watch the video of Cartoons! fighting me, I use it at least once. The AI will never use it, anyway.

Edit: Watching that video over again, I was really playing horrible, especially against Syclant, haha. I dropped like half my combos and was generally being kind of stupid

I'd guess it's good luck, since, as I said, it worked in Breezy. And most sure fire Breezy combos (not move spamming, actual combos) work in Sweatin'.

I saw him succeed at it with Syclant, he caught me while I was trying to start SD, and proceeded to combo me. I'm a bit confused as to what '.5c' is, I'm assuming it's the weak attack, but I just want to make sure. Otherwise, fair enough. You've argued that a COM will never play like a player....as Fidgit. >:3

 

[Lurker Without Posts]

look at your numpad

7 8 9
4 5 6
1 2 3

X Y Z
A B C

Y = Ability
A = Light
B = Medium
C = Strong
j. = jumping
f. = far

j.5c is jumping neutral strong

for fidgit, that would be his long-range aerial hand slap thing

 

[Ninjabait]

Ah, I got it. I didn't understand since I customized my controls and the fact that I'm using a Laptop. Thanks.

 

[HeavyOctillery]

Just beat Sweatin' with Pyroak finally; Deucalion's right - spamming ranged attacks (namely Ember) nukes Vitaly in no time, along with the occasional Strong & Down+Strong. Still powerful enough, though, as any boss character should be.

Rev was almost pathetic; even though Power Whip still hurt, all I had to do was spam Down+Strong every time it got up. Syclant wasn't too difficult, but Fidgit was a bit of a pain, and Argho was a total douche. Strata easily fell after a few Flamethrowers, of course.

 

[Urza]

maybe i'm just dumb, but is there a single player mode to this? i downloaded and tried, but couldnt get it to happen.

 

[DKG]

Hmm... the game isn't all that difficult. I beat Breezin' with every character, and Sweatin' with Stratagem, Fidgit and Pyroak (without dying once). How many people play this online?