CAP Tutor Move Additions

[Umbreon Dan]

the problem with playtesting on CAP is that there generally isn't enough activity on the CAP server to make a full judgment on whether a pokemon is "broken" or not, like there was for the suspect test.

frankly, I agree with zarator - even if it can be given trick, that doesn't mean we should. as far as the concept goes, "sweepers" are generally not choice users, and are definitely not such great sweepers after tricking the choice item away.

 

[billymills]

From what I can see the biggest remaining objection (read: brought up by more than one person) is Trick on Stratagem. If we could have a discussion on that so we can finalize this, that would be great. Also if anyone else has serious objections due to power, now would be a great time to say it. I don't care about flavor or outclassed moves at this point, only if you think a move is broken.

I have no objections to trick. I'd equate it with Choicetrick Starmie, only with a bit more power. Choicetrick Starmie's weakness is not its lack of power (it can't break a choiced blissey), but lack of moves. Stratagem would likely fall prey to the same problem.

 

[zarator]

So we give it Trick, if its too much, we take it away. Simple.

Point given, although I wonder how would we manage this situation process-wise...

A majority is a majority. Also, Trick does help it accomplish it's concept. If you remember, it's concept is "Break the Mold". There are no Rock-types with Trick. I mean I'm all for trimming superfluous moves like Ice Beam and Thunderbolt, but Trick is very important and will make a difference, unlike all the other moves on that list.

Of course a majority is a majority, but when you have a majority of slightly more than 50% months ago, it is apparent that the move was controversial at the time as it is now, so you cannot foresee whether Trick would be allowed through a vote or not. My point is: we cannot allow Trick without nothing less than a vote - probably reserved to the committee, since people who didn't make it for the most part will not have the necessary experience with Strata to judge accordingly.

And, even if a move would make a difference, it does not mean it is actually needed. Look at Scizor. If it had a strong physical Rock-type move like Rock Slide or Stone Edge, lol, it would make the difference (I remember the old D/P analysis crying for it). But it still is the #1 used Pokémon in the OU metagame. We should not give to our Pokémon everything under the sun, but - generally - only the minimum tools required to its job. Stratagem has all of them. Elemental beams, Paleo Wave, Giga Drain, Earth Power, Calm Mind, Substitute, Stealth Rock, Explosion (I'd say also that the latter 2 are not even a must, but whatever). I hope my point is clearer now.

 

[tennisace]

I'm going to close this thread. We're going to test Trick Stratagem for a month. At that point, we'll make revisions for all the tutor moves. If Trick Stratagem is broken, we'll find out. This will be like a mini-playtesting. This also goes for any other move. In addition, if someone can make a case for a new competitive move because a CAP is underpowered, then we'll revisit it then. Until that time, I'm locking this thread, and the tutor moves will be implemented.